~Lady~:

Then which one is Jesus's heavenly mother?

Was Jesus on earth not God?

Did Jesus as God on earth not have a mother?

Didn't Elizabeth call Mary the Mother of Her Lord, remove the Her and you have the Mother of the Lord, or Mother of Lord, now what is that? Not Mother of God?

Why can't people just accept that if Jesus is God, and Mary is Jesus' mother, then Mary is the Mother of God. Mother's do not give birth to earthly empty flesh without souls. They give birth to persons, with body and soul. Christ came as a person, and when he was in the womb he was God, and when he came out he was still God and Mary still gave birth to God, hence the woman who gives birth to God, is God's Mother. I mean it's just common sense.

@Lady and @Onc4all, I know it is quiet understandable that you guys must defend your beliefs, but what I would have you do is to listen to some of the posts here and decide on the pros and cons.

As a Christian, I only know the relevance of Mary through the birth of Jesus, nothing more. She's no more of importance than Peter, Paul, Silas and the great men of the Bible. All these people were mentioned so that they could be a perfect example for us.

As to the issue of Mary, She was blessed and favoured by God as an example of  things to come, so that those (women) who obey God as Mary did would receive same blessing and favour from God. She was an example of how a true Christian mother should be, nothing more, like-wise Paul, Peter and the rest.

To the issue of Jesus being God, this is a total misconception and misinterpretation of the Bible that has for so long been perpetuated by some so-called Christian sect. What has GOD got to prove by coming in a form of a man? Why would GOD come to earth to show HIMSELF to people? Does Jesus's miracles and powers confirmed him as the ALMIGHTY GOD? What about the miracles Elijah and Elisha performed before the inception of Jesus Christ? All these questions are hypothetical by nature and should only be answered if you don't understand why Jesus came to earth?

Study your Bible girls and you'd see that Jesus was never referred to as GOD or LORD, but as Lord. Notice the small letters from the word Lord? This refers to you and I. Anything you have control over, you are the Lord to that thing. Jesus was and is the Lord over the Church, and GOD is LORD over Jesus and over all living creature. Don't be ignorant and compare these two. Read revelation and the letters to the Corinthian Church.

onc4all:

Mother Mary is the mediatrix of all graces.
We make her known to the world.
She is the mother of Jesus and also shared in his sufferings.

What we catholics do is to give honour to whom honour is do.

Hail holy Queen.

That's why the Queen of England is honoured and worshipped just like Mary. And why call Mary the mother of God? Now I understand, at least no one as ever said she's the mother of the Almighty GOD. Now, the difference, Jesus is god over the Church while GOD is the maker of Jesus and you and I.

I am a god over my enemies and a god over all things that GOD has put under my control. "ye are gods and all of you are the children of the most high, " Jesus never claimed to be God Almighty, but was in a nature of God and thought it robbery to compare himself as God (Philippians 2:6). The Bible says we were created out of God's image and likeness, and if so, we posses the true nature of that God. Jesus was sent by God to fulfil a mission, period.

bee444:

That's why the Queen of England is honoured and worshipped just like Mary. And why call Mary the mother of God? Now I understand, at least no one as ever said she's the mother of the Almighty GOD. Now, the difference, Jesus is god over the Church while GOD is the maker of Jesus and you and I.

I am a god over my enemies and a god over all things that GOD has put under my control. "ye are gods and all of you are the children of the most high, " Jesus never claimed to be God Almighty, but was in a nature of God and thought it robbery to compare himself as God (Philippians 2:6). The Bible says we were created out of God's image and likeness, and if so, we posses the true nature of that God. Jesus was sent by God to fulfil a mission, period.

I'm afraid you are seriously misinformed on the Christian faith and even Christian basics.

Starting with the bit I highlighted in red, can you show us where the Bible says or even remotely suggests that "God is the maker of Jesus". By the way, to help you deal with this ignorance, quoted below is part of the confession of the historic church: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_versions_of_the_Nicene_Creed_in_current_use

We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,

    the only Son of God,
    eternally begotten of the Father,
    God from God, Light from Light,
    true God from true God,
    begotten, not made,

Regarding the bit in your post that I highlighted in purple, you claim to be "god" quoting Psalm 82:6, why not go on to the next verse Psalm 82:7 and the rest of the Psalm 82 to see that reproach, and arguably a curse, was placed on the so-called "gods".

You claim to be a "god" and in the same and other posts you claim Jesus is not God; is Jesus also one of the "gods" or indeed you are higher than Jesus if Jesus is neither a "god" nor God? In any event, there are many places where you will see clearly enough that Jesus is God ---- only if you open your eyes wide enough! For one example, read the below from Mark 2:

5 When Jesus saw their faith, He said to the paralytic, “Son, your sins are forgiven you.”
6 And some of the scribes were sitting there and reasoning in their hearts, 7 “Why does this Man speak blasphemies like this? Who can forgive sins but God alone?”
8 But immediately, when Jesus perceived in His spirit that they reasoned thus within themselves, He said to them, “Why do you reason about these things in your hearts? 9 Which is easier, to say to the paralytic, ‘Your sins are forgiven you,’ or to say, ‘Arise, take up your bed and walk’? 10 But that you may know that the Son of Man has power on earth to forgive sins”—He said to the paralytic, 11 “I say to you, arise, take up your bed, and go to your house.” 12 Immediately he arose, took up the bed, and went out in the presence of them all, so that all were amazed and glorified God, saying, “We never saw anything like this!”

Enigma:

I'm afraid you are seriously misinformed on the Christian faith and even Christian basics.

Starting with the bit I highlighted in red, can you show us where the Bible says or even remotely suggests that "God is the maker of Jesus". By the way, to help you deal with this ignorance, quoted below is part of the confession of the historic church: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_versions_of_the_Nicene_Creed_in_current_use


Regarding the bit in your post that I highlighted in purple, you claim to be "god" quoting Psalm 82:6, why not go on to the next verse Psalm 82:7 and the rest of the Psalm 82 to see that reproach and, arguably, a curse was placed on the so-called "gods".

You claim to be a "god" and in the same and other posts you claim Jesus is not God; is Jesus also one of the "gods" or indeed you are higher than Jesus if Jesus is neither a "god" nor God? In any event, there are many places where you will see clearly enough that Jesus is God ---- only if you open your eyes wide enough! For one example, read the below from Mark 2:

I think you're a bit ignorant here. If Jesus is the only begotten son of God, what about you and I? What's the significance of being born again? Jesus wasn't begotten until he was baptised, like-wise you and I. As soon as we receive that holy spirit and got baptised, we can boldly say we are the begotten son/daughter of God.
I want to see the places in the Bible where it says Jesus is not only God, but GOD Almighty.

bee444:

I think you're a bit ignorant here. If Jesus is the only begotten son of God, what about you and I? What's the significance of being born again? Jesus wasn't begotten until he was baptised, like-wise you and I. As soon as we receive that holy spirit and got baptised, we can boldly say we are the begotten son/daughter of God.
I want to see the places in the Bible where it says Jesus is not only God, but GOD Almighty.

It is very likely that this will be my last post addressed to you directly as I have no intention of trading words or insults with you. However, your earlier post to which I responded and the one quoted above have to be countered as you are simply repeating heresies that have been condemned by the Christian Church hundreds of years ago as anyone with sound Christian doctrine and church history should know. To repeat those heresies now smacks of ignorance, I'm afraid, and we should not allow you to mislead uninformed or misinformed people.

For the benefit of those who may potentially be misled by your posts, I put forward below certain salient points of sound universal Christian teaching:

Jesus IS God!
Jesus was NOT created!
Jesus was NOT made!
Rather Jesus IS begotten of the Father!
(EDIT) Jesus' baptism has nothing to do with His being begotten; rather Jesus IS eternally begotten!)
Jesus IS of one being with the Father!
Jesus WAS in the beginning, IS now and forever WILL BE!
Although the Bible describes Jesus as the first born among brethren, Jesus was NOT born again!

A born again person is NOT a begotten child of God.
Rather, a born again person is an adopted child of God.
A born again person is not "god"!
A born again person is just a man (person) though a new "creation" i.e. a man (person) with a new spiritual mind

If you are wise, you will go and study Bible and Christianity basics and stop spreading age old heresies!

Why is Mary crying?

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0040/0040_01.asp

This is for you BEE444, I Wouldn't be posting this to you if you aren't a christian so pardon me if you are not. Reason is, if you believe in the Bible, then you have to believe this.

John
Chapter 1

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 He was in the beginning with God.

3 All things came to be through him, and without him nothing came to be. What came to be

through him was life, and this life was the light of the human race;

4 the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

5 A man named John was sent from God.

He came for testimony,

6 to testify to the light, so that all might believe through him.

He was not the light, but came to testify to the light.

The true light, which enlightens everyone, was coming into the world.

He was in the world, and the world came to be through him, but the world did not know him.

He came to what was his own, but his own people

7 did not accept him.

But to those who did accept him he gave power to become children of God, to those who believe in his name,

8 who were born not by natural generation nor by human choice nor by a man's decision but of God.

And the Word became flesh

9 and made his dwelling among us, and we saw his glory, the glory as of the Father's only Son, full of grace and truth.



I hope you are convinced that Jesus is God. Cheers.

Acts.4.27
and the people of Israel against Jesus YOUR HOLY SERVANT WHO YOU MADE MESSIAH.

so who said jesus is his God[definitely not mine]

1.cor.15.28
But when all things have been placed under christ’s rule, then he himself the son will place himself under God, who placed all things under him and God will rule completely over all.

Deductions[refute them if you can; just don’t twist scriptures]
1.there is a big difference between jesus and God
2.jesus had nothing and was given all things by God but as a manager he would hand all back to the owner in the future
3.jesus is subject to and not equal to God.

pls note that God [/b]and the son[christ] are both used in the verse which tells us that [b]God is not christ.

Acts.4.27
and the people of Israel against Jesus YOUR HOLY SERVANT WHO YOU MADE MESSIAH.

so who said jesus is his God[definitely not mine]

That is the mystery of the Holy Trinity. Jesus is both the son of God and God himself.

Deductions[refute them if you can; just don’t twist scriptures]
1.there is a big difference between jesus and God
2.jesus had nothing and was given all things by God but as a manager he would hand all back to the owner in the future
3.jesus is subject to and not equal to God.

John 1:1 - "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
John 1:14 - "And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us(Iguess that means God became flesh and lived on earth), and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth."

John 8:58 - "Jesus said to them, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.'"
Exodus 3:14 - "And God said to Moses, 'I AM WHO I AM'; and He said, Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’"

John 10:30-33 - "I and the Father are one." 31 The Jews took up stones again to stone Him. 32 Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?" 33 The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God."

John 20:28 - "Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"

Phil. 2:6,7 - ", who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men".


I hope I have refuted what you said 'without twisting scripture'.

Here comes another one I like very much:

For unto us a Child is born, unto us a son is given; and the government will be upon His shoulder: and his name will be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Isaiah 9:6 (written: 712 BC (Before Christ)


, And there are many more but I am sure these above should be enough to convince any right thinking person that, going by the Bible, Jesus is the Son of God and also GOD.


But if you are not a Christian, please tell me what your faith is or tell me if you have no faith so that I may know what your problem is and how to help you - if you are worth helping. Cheers.

@italo i realy would have loved to answer all your verses and show you the truth in them which you were unable to see as i have done in several threads but alas time is no more on my side so just have it in mind that jesus is the servant of God and mary the mother of d servant.acts.4.26,3.13 i am an anglican and my belief has nothing to do with my denomination.stay blessed and hopefuly when and if i have time again i will explain it all to you.

i realy would have loved to answer all your verses and show you the truth in them which you were unable to see as i have done in several threads but alas time is no more on my side so just have it in mind that jesus is the servant of God and mary the mother of d servant.acts.4.26,3.13 i am an anglican and my belief has nothing to do with my denomination.stay blessed and hopefuly when and if i have time again i will explain it all to you

mr Man,u re not an anglican, since anglicans profess the nicene creed.You are an arian,your likes disappeared centuries ago.

@chukwudi what do you understand by 'my belief has nothing to do with my denomination' as i posted earlier? when you find out/understand that then you can delete your previous post.

@italo i realy would have loved to answer all your verses and show you the truth in them which you were unable to see as i have done in several threads but alas time is no more on my side so just have it in mind that jesus is the servant of God and mary the mother of d servant.acts.4.26,3.13 i am an anglican and my belief has nothing to do with my denomination.stay blessed and hopefuly when and if i have time again i will explain it all to you.

You haven't told or showed me anything new. I know that Jesus Christ is the servant of God and Mary is the mother of the servant of God. However I also know that Jesus Christ is God and Mary is the mother of God. Afterall, Elizabeth said: "Who am I that the mother of my Lord should come to me" (Lk 1:43)

And don't say you are Anglican if you don't believe in what they believe in. What you are doing is akin to a man fighting a guerilla warfare. You might wear a uniform but you seem to have no identity; you have enemies but no permanent friends. You are trying to be evasive by claiming to belong to a "denomination" and distancing your self from it at the same time. I am a soldier of Christ and that makes me a soldier of His Holy Catholic Church. This, of course doesn't mean I expect everyone to believe in what I believe in but if you are going to face me, at least be a man and let me know who I am talking to. , not that I'm very interested anyway, I am more interested in the innocent people who might be reading these posts. I hope nobody gets deceived. I hope everyone finds the truth.

i dont live a life of jumping from church to church because of differences in beliefs which are not important in our relationship with God because i am a member of a church ONLY to worship God and as much as that is not impaired then i am cool with the church so thus i can be an anglican and not even like ONE SINGLE THING ABOUT THE CHURCH but still go there to worship my God.

that does not mean i dont like the anglican church.

italo:

This is for you BEE444, I Wouldn't be posting this to you if you aren't a christian so pardon me if you are not. Reason is, if you believe in the Bible, then you have to believe this.

John
Chapter 1

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 He was in the beginning with God.

3 All things came to be through him, and without him nothing came to be. What came to be

through him was life, and this life was the light of the human race;

4 the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

5 A man named John was sent from God.

He came for testimony,

6 to testify to the light, so that all might believe through him.

He was not the light, but came to testify to the light.

The true light, which enlightens everyone, was coming into the world.

He was in the world, and the world came to be through him, but the world did not know him.

He came to what was his own, but his own people

7 did not accept him.

But to those who did accept him he gave power to become children of God, to those who believe in his name,

8 who were born not by natural generation nor by human choice nor by a man's decision but of God.

And the Word became flesh

9 and made his dwelling among us, and we saw his glory, the glory as of the Father's only Son, full of grace and truth.



I hope you are convinced that Jesus is God. Cheers.

I don't have to believe what you've written down in order to believe the Bible. The fact is,  you've not been taught well. Sitting and listening to your Pastor preach every sunday and tuesday does not qualify you to be bible scholar. You have to be taught in theology and attend unbias Bible school to prove yourself.

Most things taught in Theology and Bible School are hidden to the ordinary church goer just like you. There are controversies surrounding the birth, death, resurrection and personality of Jesus, let alone him being called GOD! The fact is most people that comes from the eastern part of the Nigeria(catholicism, Methodism)  believes that Jesus is God. Why won't they? As long as you people keep calling Mary 'Holy' mother of God justify your assertiveness.

You claim that Jesus is God, as well as the son of God. Why are you then leaving out the holy spirit? John, Mathew, Mark, Luke all present Jesus to the world according to their own personal conviction. One said he's human, one said he's a spirit, and the others were convinced he's the messiah sent by GOD.

Now the word[b] begotten[/b], this same word has brought controversy both to the Christian faith and people of other faith. I would not have you ignorant, let me explain,
To beget means to sire, to cause to exist, to father, to procreate etc. God begat (cause Jesus to exist) Jesus using Mary as the channel. HE wanted something undiluted to bring HIS plans forth. HE could have chosen any virgin available as at that time (Unmarried singles were virgins during the days of Jesus), but no, Jesus has been foretold to come through the lineage of David, his step father (else the fulfillment of scripture). So, Mary wasn't in any way holy (I don't know where you people get the idea from), "There is none holy, " I Samuel 2:2, Psalm 14:3

I don't have to believe what you've written down in order to believe the Bible. The fact is, you've not been taught well. Sitting and listening to your Pastor preach every sunday and tuesday does not qualify you to be bible scholar. You have to be taught in theology and attend unbias Bible school to prove yourself.

Most things taught in Theology and Bible School are hidden to the ordinary church goer just like you. There are controversies surrounding the birth, death, resurrection and personality of Jesus, let alone him being called GOD! The fact is most people that comes from the eastern part of the Nigeria(catholicism, Methodism) believes that Jesus is God. Why won't they? As long as you people keep calling Mary 'Holy' mother of God justify your assertiveness.

You claim that Jesus is God, as well as the son of God. Why are you then leaving out the holy spirit?

In true protestant fashion, you are trying to distract I and other people participating in this discussion either by posting or reading. I am talking about Jesus and Mary and because you know I speak the truth you are jumping to the Holy Spirit.

John, Mathew, Mark, Luke all present Jesus to the world according to their own personal conviction. One said he's human, one said he's a spirit, and the others were convinced he's the messiah sent by GOD.

You are being hypocritical. Didn't John say "the word was God"? Didn't Thomas say "my Lord and my God"? Didn't Elizabeth call Mary "the mother of my Lord"? Didn't Isaiah say, "the mighty God, the everlasting Father"? Why have you chosen to sweep these under the carpet.

Now the word begotten, this same word has brought controversy both to the Christian faith and people of other faith. I would not have you ignorant, let me explain,
To beget means to sire, to cause to exist, to father, to procreate etc. God begat (cause Jesus to exist) Jesus using Mary as the channel. HE wanted something undiluted to bring HIS plans forth. HE could have chosen any virgin available as at that time (Unmarried singles were virgins during the days of Jesus), but no, Jesus has been foretold to come through the lineage of David, his step father (else the fulfillment of scripture).

If Mary had been in sin, wouldn't she have been 'diluted'?(in reference to your choice of word - "undiluted" What if, for instance, she had been a thief but had remained a virgin, would God have allowed his son come through her? Virginity is not the only way to be pure. In fact one can be a virgin physically but be a harlot in her thoughts(remember the Bible says Man looks at outward appearance but God searches the heart). Be sure that God looked beyond her physical virginity.

So, Mary wasn't in any way holy (I don't know where you people get the idea from), "There is none holy, " [/b]I Samuel 2:2, Psalm 14:3

That verse actually contains the phrase: [b]"there is none holy as the Lord" but the hypocrite that you seem to be has omitted the last three words so that you can deceive those who don't know.

Leviticus 19:2 says: "Speak to all the congregation of the sons of Israel and say to them, 'You shall be holy, for I the LORD your God am holy.

Be Ye therefore Perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is Perfect.” (Matt 5:43-48)

If God says ", you shall be holy, ", who are you to say man cannot be holy (of course, not like God)

I want to ask you. Is Jesus Christ holy? If your answer is yes and you say - or think that there is none holy but God, it means that Jesus is God.

What 'denomination' do you belong to. I hope you are not like some others who don't have an identity.

some one is asking the relevance of mary in christianity. But the truth is that she is more important than you people give her credit.
Her importance is not just seen in her giving birth to jesus like joeagbaje ignorantly said; but can also be seen in the fact that she contributed so much to the scripture.
The account of the birth of jesus and the circumstances surrrounding it were recorded in two books only. Mattew and luke. The luke account was so different from mattews in the sense that; it provided more in sight and background.
When jesus was dying, he said to his apostle: ''This is your mother'' and from that moment the holy virgin remained with the apostles.
In writing his gospel, luke probably turned to the holy virgin, becos she was with them, for accounts as can be seen in the first four verses of chapter one: ''I am putting together an orderly account.....after hearing from those who saw and heard.....'' no wonder luke was able to give that much insight and background. So all of the divine revelations of great and profound truth and all of the better understanding and a deepened faith you get after reading the gospel of luke especially chapter one couldnt have been revealed without, not taking God from it, the holy virgin.
What i have explained has revealed the ignorance of joeagbaje et al.

I am suprised that joeagbaje is attacking other people from the angle of ignorance even when he should know better. Anytime an ignorant anti oyakhilome topic comes on, he is the first one to get passionate and defensive.

No matter how much is said about Mary, All is that Jesus is the only way.

Those who are worship her are doing so at their risk. she is not relevant

in the newbirth of a sinner who recieves Christ as His Lord and savior.

Itz not becos something is popular that makes it good.

FYI
- Mary cannot answer your prayers
- Mary cannot interceede for you
- Mary is not the queen of heaven etc

FYI

Mary is more than relevant.

That you don't understand something doesn't make it bad.

Mary intercedes for us.

Mary is the Queen of Heaven.

italo: FYI

Mary is more than relevant.

That you don't understand something doesn't make it bad.

Mary intercedes for us.

Mary is the Queen of Heaven.

GBAM

Mary is dead and her soul is gone to heaven. Her body has rottened in the grave like that of any human being. She is not making any intercession in heaven for anybody like the catholics foolishly believe. Forget about the nonsense hail mary they are deceiving themselves with.

alexleo: Mary is dead and her soul is gone to heaven. Her body has rottened in the grave like that of any human being. She is not making any intercession in heaven for anybody like the catholics foolishly believe. Forget about the nonsense hail mary they are deceiving themselves with.

It is you non-Catholic Christians that are always quick to ask "where is it in the Bible?"

So can you tell me where the Bible says "Mary's body has rottened in the grave?" Where was she buried? Is there any account of her death in the Bible?

italo: FYI

Mary is more than relevant.

That you don't understand something doesn't make it bad.

Mary intercedes for us.

Mary is the Queen of Heaven.

dude,there's no queen in the Heavens of our Lord Jesus Christ.
God has no wife.

i.chuka:


dude,there's no queen in the Heavens of our Lord Jesus Christ.
God has no wife.

Revelation 12:
1 A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. 2 She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth. 3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads. 4 Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child the moment he was born. 5 She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.”[a] And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne. 6 The woman fled into the wilderness to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days.
 7 Then war broke out in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. 8 But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. 9 The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

 10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say:

   “Now have come the salvation and the power
   and the kingdom of our God,
   and the authority of his Messiah.
For the accuser of our brothers and sisters,
   who accuses them before our God day and night,
   has been hurled down.
11 They triumphed over him
   by the blood of the Lamb
   and by the word of their testimony;
they did not love their lives so much
   as to shrink from death.
12 Therefore rejoice, you heavens
   and you who dwell in them!
But woe to the earth and the sea,
   because the devil has gone down to you!
He is filled with fury,
   because he knows that his time is short.”

 13 When the dragon saw that he had been hurled to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child. 14 The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the wilderness, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent’s reach. 15 Then from his mouth the serpent spewed water like a river, to overtake the woman and sweep her away with the torrent. 16 But the earth helped the woman by opening its mouth and swallowing the river that the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. 17 Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring—those who keep God’s commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus.

Who is this woman with a crown of 12 stars in heaven?

It doesn't sound like she's a maid to me.

italo:

Revelation 12:
1 A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. 2 She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth. 3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads. 4 Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child the moment he was born. 5 She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.”[a] And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne. 6 The woman fled into the wilderness to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days.
 7 Then war broke out in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. 8 But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. 9 The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

 10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say:

   “Now have come the salvation and the power
   and the kingdom of our God,
   and the authority of his Messiah.
For the accuser of our brothers and sisters,
   who accuses them before our God day and night,
   has been hurled down.
11 They triumphed over him
   by the blood of the Lamb
   and by the word of their testimony;
they did not love their lives so much
   as to shrink from death.
12 Therefore rejoice, you heavens
   and you who dwell in them!
But woe to the earth and the sea,
   because the devil has gone down to you!
He is filled with fury,
   because he knows that his time is short.”

 13 When the dragon saw that he had been hurled to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child. 14 The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the wilderness, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent’s reach. 15 Then from his mouth the serpent spewed water like a river, to overtake the woman and sweep her away with the torrent. 16 But the earth helped the woman by opening its mouth and swallowing the river that the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. 17 Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring—those who keep God’s commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus.

Who is this woman with a crown of 12 stars in heaven?

It doesn't sound like she's a maid to me.

Dude the above chapter/verses have nothing to do with Mary.
The only queen mentioned in the book of Revelation is the great har*l*t......in Revelation17 and 18.

I didn't tell you it had something to do with Mary *guilty conscience*.

I asked "who is the woman with a crown of 12 stars on her head in heaven?

Is it your mother?

italo: I didn't tell you it had something to do with Mary *guilty conscience*.

I asked "who is the woman with a crown of 12 stars on her head in heaven?

Is it your mother?

Dude the Bible is not a text book neither is it an hand-out.
The very nature of the Bible is spirit...Jhn6:63.for this reason you must approach/read it with your spirit.the spirit am referring to is the spirit of every born again Christains,unfortunately you are not born again,so its a close book to you and your cohorts.
Because the two(2) women mentioned in the book of Revelation typifies the true Church(Revelation12) and the false Church(Revelation17 and 18)

i.chuka:


Dude the Bible is not a text book neither is it an hand-out.
The very nature of the Bible is spirit...Jhn6:63.for this reason you must approach/read it with your spirit.the spirit am referring to is the spirit of every born again Christains,unfortunately you are not born again,so its a close book to you and your cohorts.
Because the two(2) women mentioned in the book of Revelation typifies the true Church(Revelation12) and the false Church(Revelation17 and 18)

Be careful how you lie against the Holy Spirit just because you hate Catholics.

Rev 12: 5 says: She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.”[a] And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne.

And you say the passage is talking about the true Church, not Mary. Is it the Church, then, that gave birth to Jesus Christ or is it Mary?

Secondly, how do you know I'm not born-again? And how are we sure you are born-again?

[quote author=elewe obi]When will ppl stop seeing errors in what others do and mind their business.roman catholic is not the only church in the world.if u cant do as they do then do as u can.if Marry makes no meaning to u fine.if she makes meaning to u fine.

Romans 14:1-6
1-Him that is weak in the faith receive ye,but not to doubtful disputations.
2-For one believeth that he may eat all things;another who is weak eateth herbs.
3-let not him that eatheth despise him that eateth not;and let not him that eateth not judge him that eateth;for God has received him
4-who arth though that judgeth another man''s srvant?to his own master, he standeth or falleth.yea he shall be holden up;for God is able to make him stand
5-one man esteemeth one day above another, another esteemeth every day alike.let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
6-He that regardeth the day regargeth it unto the lord and he that not the day, to the lord he doeth not regard it. He that eateth eateth to the lord, for he giveth God thanks;and that eateth not , to the lord he eateth not and giveth thanks to the lord.


, and so on.
one thing i know for sure , and i stand to be corrected by God most supreme, is that no one has full knowledge of who God is.so why are we saying some ppl are worshiping/honoring mary while some are praising josef.what do u want muslim brothren to be saying.what do u say about those who make sacrifice?
How can u convince the idol worshippers that their gos is not living since when they call on their god, he answers them the way they understand, and u say that ur God is living yet u tell a lame man to walk yet nothing happens.i am not saying that God is not real, but wha i am saying is for us all to have respect for each other's belief.pls lets save this planet from religious strife.thanks[/
quote]

lovely post , i like that ....God judges us according to our understanding

italo:

Be careful how you lie against the Holy Spirit just because you hate Catholics.

Rev 12: 5 says: She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.”[a] And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne.

And you say the passage is talking about the true Church, not Mary. Is it the Church, then, that gave birth to Jesus Christ or is it Mary?

Secondly, how do you know I'm not born-again? And how are we sure you are born-again?

The revelation of Jesus Christ,which God gave Him to show His servants WHAT WILL SOON TAKE PLACE..Rev1:1.
Dude,our Lord Jesus Christ was already in Heaven before this revelation was given to John.
He's not the Man Child(they are the group called the overcomers..Rev12:11)
2.the woman is not Mary,JESUS did not ascend on to Heaven immediately He was born(He spent 33yrs before His ascension) 3.Mary never ran to the wilderness with Jesus,she went to Egypt.
4.Satan have not been cast down by Micheal from the Heavenly places...Ephns6:12.
5.If the woman is Mary where,why and how would Satan be chasing her from pillar to post...Rev12:13-15.

Rev 12:5: She gave birth to a SON, a MALE CHILD (singular), who "will rule all the nations with an iron scepter".

Then read Rev 19:15 to see who rules with an "iron scepter", come back and tell us if it is your "overcomers".

I should start to charge you for grammar class o.