Messi & Vela . . . . Why Not Opabumi & Cristiana Ronalda

debosky:

God bless eldee and A40. These guys were making it seem as if I was dissing Vela unduly. The fact is that he hasn't done anything to prove he should remain at the club!
If bendtner comes on and scores against spurs or walcott comes on and makes an impact, Vela has no excuse. Besides doesn't messi fly to South America and still perform?
I suspect he might not (yet?) have the mental ability to fight for a place at Arsenal. We can fault Nick for many things but he has cojones to FIGHT for a place.
Why do I give dudu benefit of the doubt? He's proven at senior level and had an ok first season before his injury problems. If anything, maybe Vela needs to be loaned out to get dome confidence and playing time. If he Never got a look in when we had NO strikers then something must be wrong.

The point is, has he been given the opportunity to prove anything? remember Flamini before the 07/08 season? a lot of fans like you wanted him flogged off to Birmingham when he hadn't even gotten the opportunity to play in his preferred MF position, Gilberto unfortunately missed pre-season and that gave Flamini the opportunity to play for an extended period in the position due to necessity and that was the end of Gilberto's career in Arsenal.

I don't know what is up with Vela and why he didn't get appearances while RVP was injured (maybe he was injured at the same time or maybe Arsene preferred to go for the experience of Eduardo who messed up anyway before opting for Arshavin as he didn't have much room to experiment at that time we needed to stay in the race I do not know). He may be a bit lacking in motivation and possibly unserious as his passport episode shows but those are issues that can be easily corrected for a boy who has just clocked 21.

Vela has been played wide this season starting a paltry 5 games and did make 2 assists while playing wide in the West Ham match which is one of the few matches he started, he also had to play with mostly weakened teams consisting of none first team players in most of these matches.

Everyone seems to have forgotten how incredible Vela was in the CC playing as a second striker/CF. . . Now he doesnt have a future at Arsenal cos Wenger plays him out of position in the 89th minute?. . . Mary screamed!
Go and watch Vela against Wigan, Sheffield etc and in the Mexican national team and get back to me.

Show me a more talented forward his age in the whole of England and i will show you a fictional character's imaginary friend

eldee:

@Debosky

What exactly do you think Vela can bring to a Burnley or a Bolton??
These clubs are efficiency-driven where a Fuller has to give his best all the time and work with a specific formula.

They work with either physical strikers with heavy box-presence or just the short, extremely fast striker.
Both ways, Vela fails. . . the only club in England that plays that way is Arsenal.

What exactly do you mean? did you ever watch this guy play for Salamanca as an 18 year old (where he assisted about half of their goal in a season and had them in a promotion spot until he got injured) or did you watch him play for Osasuna as a 19 year old and led their line for a full season keeping them in the La Liga?
I have been keeping tabs on Vela since he was bought in 2005 and know what this boy is about, Vela will feel at home in any team because he has got quality, you don't become a main feature in your national team at 18 if yu're lacking in all the quality you guys are harping on about, it is your likes who were making fun of Bendtner until he got his opportunity to prove himself after your darling Eduardo messed up.

It is a bit of a pity Arsene is stuck in his ways when it comes to hierarchy and player succession, if the person ahead of you doesn't mess up you simply don't get a chance and that is what is keeping Vela back presently but I'm sure his quality will come through.
Vela will get his opportunity and prove himself, only that you guys won't come here to eat your words when that happens, I'm not too surprised as it was the same way you lot saw it as comedy when I initially started posting Diaby's stats on here indicating how important the guy's contributions were for us.

@Duduspace
Its not enough to run at players the question is does he get past them on a consistent basis? Also u need to realize that Vela plays in the Concacaf with opponents like Costa Rica,Honduras,Panama these are not exactly accurate barometers to judge Vela's talent with! Now while i am not doubting Vela can make it at Arsenal mehn he has nothing in common with Messi and has not shown 10% of Messi's abilities

A-40:

@Duduspace
Its not enough to run at players the question is does he get past them on a consistent basis? Also u need to realize that Vela plays in the Concacaf with opponents like Costa Rica,Honduras,Panama these are not exactly accurate barometers to judge Vela's talent with! Now while i am not doubting Vela can make it at Arsenal mehn he has nothing in common with Messi and has not shown 10% of Messi's abilities

My statement was never a direct comparison of Vela and Messi, Vela gets past players very well, why does Messi go to Argentina and then fail to score against the likes of Bolivia and Peru
Messi is a great player playing in a great team and there is no basis for comparing him with Vela who is apparently not as precocious a talent as Messi was either due to innate ability or time and chance.
My statement was made on the basis of what I saw as the core attributes of the players, it is akin to saying that in the old SE setup Okocha was the closest we had to Maradona, you and I know Okocha never had the same impact Maradona had.

Messi's main attributes that make him so dangerous in my opinion are:

1. Pace over long distances
2. Acceleration within short distances and spaces
3. Composure in front of goal
4. Flair and creativity to do what opposing players least expect
5. Confidence to shield and protect the ball
6. Balance and a low center of gravity

In the current Arsenal squad, a number of our players have some of these attributes but the only player I see who has a combination of all is Carlos Vela, the only other who comes close is Arshavin but the only thing he lacks IMO is pace over long distances, we all know what Theo is lacking in while Eboue lacks composure in front of goal.
Wellington Silva who is at Fluminense is our other player who combines all these attributes, while Wilshere also seems to lack a bit of pace.

@duduspace

Salamanca is not Bolton or Stoke . . . the English game is different.
You have to be extremely hardworking to be a Burnley striker . . .Vela is not.
The aerial presence is lacking and his pace is not up to EPL requirement for a striker in those teams.

Of course he'll be a star in the La Liga, but you seem to forget too soon that there's a wide margin between the two in the way we play(attack and defence) . . .
Arsenal is different, we could have Vela floating in the box and he gets the last of 25 passes and scores, Bolton don't do that, they cross and you beat the defender or they throw a long pass and you outpace everyone.
And those passes don't even come all to often. . . a few matches and questions start pouring in.

You can be the star of your U-17 and not make it in England . . . Sinama Pongolle, Owusu Abeyie were both youth team stars jare.
And don't say he didn't get his chance, he got it when Cisse got injured and lost it.

Every team does that, but I've not seen a better chance than injury to the every other striker in the team.
Of course, I know he will get other chances, but he's missed his biggest one.

Duduspace
u dey mind these people? in as much as we hate to admit it, Arsenal have their fair share of fickle fans/haters on Nairaland.
They said the same thing about Diaby & Song not so long ago, in fact some of them were convinced they'd never amount to anything, but today they are two of the best midfielders in the league.
Bentdner, Eboue, Denilson etc also received their same rubbish analysis.

I disagree eldee, if Wilshere can become a first teamer at Bolton, then Vela will not only survive but thrive in any mid table to lower PL team, Vela can not only play but can also hustle, yu guys definitely haven't been watching him play for Mexico. He just hasn't settled into our first team picture yet for whatever reason.
There wasn't injury to every other striker as Eduardo was available, after we dropped points at Sunderland with Eduardo leading the line, I think Arsene just wasn't confident enough to play him then with our PL charge hanging in the balance.

Meanwhile, our old enemies down the road are being knocked out of the FA cup by Pompey. We can almost confidently say the FA cup is going to chelsea.

Kai Tottenham are infinitely useless! Walahi i would cease to be an Arsenal fan if we dont beat em on Wednesday! Pompey are currently twacking em 2-zip! Dem don dash Chelsea anoda F.A cup

A-40:

Kai Tottenham are infinitely useless! Walahi i would cease to be an Arsenal fan if we dont beat em on Wednesday! Pompey are currently twacking em 2-zip! Dem don dash Chelsea anoda F.A cup

Unlike you sorry Gunners fans. . .we don't have to wait years to win a trophy.

Get ready as we take our second trophy in three years.

Lets take a bet! Beat Chelsea and i cease to be a Gunner

chei . spuds useless

We have rested long and well, we had better beat them something silly oh

see how useless pompey beat them

duduspace:

I disagree eldee, if Wilshere can become a first teamer at Bolton, then Vela will not only survive but thrive in any mid table to lower PL team, Vela can not only play but can also hustle, yu guys definitely haven't been watching him play for Mexico. He just hasn't settled into our first team picture yet for whatever reason.
There wasn't injury to every other striker as Eduardo was available, after we dropped points at Sunderland with Eduardo leading the line, I think Arsene just wasn't confident enough to play him then with our PL charge hanging in the balance.

Vela is a hustler?? Well . . . maybe I need to start watching more Mexico matches.
You know the typical EPL striker, and you know it's not Vela.

Are you having a laugh?? How can you say we didn't lose all our strikers?? Eduardo?? Come on.
Wenger comes out from time to time to remind us that Dudu is not yet mentally back.

My question is, what better chance will he have than this season??
Remember he's in the same age bracket as Bendtner and Walcott?? Both of them have aspirations of leading Arsenal's line if they ever get better.
I don't know if he should leave, but what I do know is that he's lost a career changing opportunity this season. . . especially for a team like Arsenal where young players are treated as pros.

I think dis is our opportunity since man u{PDP}had draw there match 2day,if we could be able to beat tothenham on wednesday then we ill be in d second place behind chepe{chelsea} i hope van persie play.

eldee:

Vela is a hustler?? Well . . . maybe I need to start watching more Mexico matches.
You know the typical EPL striker, and you know it's not Vela.

Are you having a laugh?? How can you say we didn't lose all our strikers?? Eduardo?? Come on.
Wenger comes out from time to time to remind us that Dudu is not yet mentally back.

My question is, what better chance will he have than this season??
Remember he's in the same age bracket as Bendtner and Walcott?? Both of them have aspirations of leading Arsenal's line if they ever get better.
I don't know if he should leave, but what I do know is that he's lost a career changing opportunity this season. . . especially for a team like Arsenal where young players are treated as pros.

This is what Arsene had to say about Vela on 21st Feb 2010

[Quote]
Wenger said: "He is a good player. I hope he will he play for Mexico in the World Cup. I don't make the team, I make only the Arsenal team. For me Carlos Vela is a very talented player who missed the preparation of the season and was then injured. Today he had a groin problem and that is why I didn't consider him."

The Arsenal boss added: "What he needs is to be injury free and get a good run of games. He is a very talented player who is maturing now. When you are 17, 18 it is easy. At 20 you realise it is not as easy as it looks. He has gone through that stage now and I am confident he will do well."
[/quote]

Arsene is commited to playing Theo anyway because of the whole English player wahala, you cannot say that Vela has been given the same opportunities as Theo depite starting like a house on fire in the Carling cup run last season. Vela's opportunity will come and I'm sure he won't disappoint.

Dudu and ritchi give it up, only you two, thinks Vela has the potential to become great

he will not get into southampton's 1st team that's how useless he is.

jalether:

Dudu and ritchi give it up, only you two, thinks Vela has the potential to become great

he will not get into southampton's 1st team that's how useless he is.

Na you know, look to your own team, the same was said about Diaby last season and Song the season before that so it aint nothing new. Our boys keep matching forward.

jalether:

Dudu and ritchi give it up, only you two, thinks Vela has the potential to become great

he will not get into southampton's 1st team that's how useless he is.

Thank God impatient geezers like you do not have the carte blanche over any team.It would have been disastrous.
How many season has Vela had to prove himself?How many attacker of his age who crossed over from another league became instant hit in the EPL?
Diaby,Eboue,Bendtner,Song,Flamini were all slated and tagged useless before a good run of game made us know otherwise.
Merida and Vela are two young and good players that needs time to blossom in the EPL.Whether we have the time and chance to wait is another matter entirely.

The same Vela that was fan favourite during last year's CC games cos of his eye catching goals is now deemed talent-less   God have mercy.

The same Vela that was fan favourite during last year's CC games cos of his eye catching goals is now deemed talent-less God have mercy.

Would you stop mentioning Carling Cup pls? This is the equivalent of German Regional division 3 league

That was the same competition Eduardo became a star when he plays EPL he turns to the dud he is

dayokanu:

Would you stop mentioning Carling Cup pls? This is the equivalent of German Regional division 3 league

That was the same competition Eduardo became a star when he plays EPL he turns to the dud he is

It can be the equivalent of Principal cup in Nigeria but all i know is the goals he copped against prem teams we were up against in that competition oozed class!You don't feign such class do you?How much of opportunity has he been given to warrant his "he is useless and talent-less" tag?

@ kay

speak to gooners not to people like jalether.

I have watched Vela as well so permit me to say he will not be the first good youth player to fail to make it (I hope that doesn't happen).

The fact is that he has failed to deliver in any shape or form so far (CC games LAST SEASON) aside. Like others mentioned - Owusu Abieye and Bruno Cheyrou (amazingly compared to Zidane) have come to the premiership and failed to make it. He needs to sharpen up his game and get his head straight or it will be too late for him.

And enough of the naming of Song, Diaby and co - that some make it doesn't mean ALL will make it.

For every Song there is a Hoyte, Lupoli and Owusu who don't make it. It is up to Vela to prove his own case is different - his lack of discipline losing his passport isn't a good sign. I dunno what Senderos did before Wenger completely took his hands off - I'm sure you'd see such glowing comments about Phillippe from Wenger as well before things went sour.

Talking about his opportunity coming. . . .if in a season with the main strikers out he didn't have it, I wonder what will happen with a fit RVP, a possibility of Chamakh coming and Bendtner further cementing his reputation with outstanding performances?

@Debo
I am not even arguing the possibility or otherwise of him making it here or not.It's obvious the lad needs a lot of sorting out to do,but how many boy of his age doesn't?
My grudge is when words like useless and talentless are been mentioned in the same breathe with Vela.

Like I said, Jalether is the one making those comments and he's a chav who knows little about footie, not to mention Arsenal players.

We however have to look dispassionately at our players - we can't keep making excuses for their non performance.
Vela needs serious sorting out to do - moreso when other younger players are showing determination to get into the first side. I hope it's not come too easy for him being at a club like Arsenal. Hopefully he'll get his act together soon.

debosky:

@ kay

speak to gooners not to people like jalether.

I have watched Vela as well so permit me to say he will not be the first good youth player to fail to make it (I hope that doesn't happen).

The fact is that he has failed to deliver in any shape or form so far (CC games LAST SEASON) aside. Like others mentioned - Owusu Abieye and Bruno Cheyrou (amazingly compared to Zidane) have come to the premiership and failed to make it. He needs to sharpen up his game and get his head straight or it will be too late for him.

And enough of the naming of Song, Diaby and co - that some make it doesn't mean ALL will make it.

For every Song there is a Hoyte, Lupoli and Owusu who don't make it. It is up to Vela to prove his own case is different - his lack of discipline losing his passport isn't a good sign. I dunno what Senderos did before Wenger completely took his hands off - I'm sure you'd see such glowing comments about Phillippe from Wenger as well before things went sour.

Talking about his opportunity coming. . . .if in a season with the main strikers out he didn't have it, I wonder what will happen with a fit RVP, a possibility of Chamakh coming and Bendtner further cementing his reputation with outstanding performances?

I understand the frustration debo, going 5 seasons without a trophy can prove unbearable. how are you suppose to break the jinx and win

a trophy with players like Vela, Eduardo, Walcott, Rosicky et al

Vela will make it. Very sure about that. Luckily for him Wengar is a patient man.

jalether:

I understand the frustration debo, going 5 seasons without a trophy can prove unbearable. how are you suppose to break the jinx and win

a trophy with players like Vela, Eduardo, Walcott, Rosicky et al

Premature rejoicing for you dude - you can still throw it all away in the final few weeks of the season.

debosky:

Premature rejoicing for you dude - you can still throw it all away in the final few weeks of the season.

Where in my post did I imply "chelsea will win the league"

jalether:

Where in my post did I imply "chelsea will win the league"

Where in my post did I refer to Chelski? Are you the only club in the chase for trophies?

This season sef get as e be, see as everyone is afraid to claim their team will win it, even chelski guys dey fear to claim the thing. 

but yu all heard it here first, Arsenal is winning the PL league next season for sure. I stand by this statement even if God forbid 3/4 of our team get the Eduardo treatment. such is the strength in depth we are acquiring in that team.

duduspace:

This season sef get as e be, see as everyone is afraid to claim their team will win it, even chelski guys dey fear to claim the thing. 

but yu all heard it here first, Arsenal is winning the PL league next season for sure. I stand by this statement even if God forbid 3/4 of our team get the Eduardo treatment. such is the strength in depth we are acquiring in that team.

I am speech-less.

BTW,interestin stuff.RVP vs Clichy in a game of dart.Whoever can embed u-tube videos should help.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fC91kqK0bYo Part 1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sg0_MptwFWY&feature=related Part 2