People of the family section, an issue has come to the fore with dire consequences if not addressed properly.

Yesterday I was in a discussion in the religious section where freethinkers and humanists (both are atheists) were sharing their opinions about abortion and a lot of them were pro abortion simply because a fetus is not human (so they say). This is the thread


https://www.nairaland.com/4089482/humanists-freethinkers-what-thoughts-abortion

However nobody knows when a fetus becomes human. This is a diagram of fetal development



And this is a fetus at 40 weeks



Who determines if a child should die as a fetus in the name of abortion? Is the fetus which all of us once were not a child in process?

If a fetus is attached to the mother for sake of nutrition does it mean that the mother has the right to terminate its life? A fetus has all the DNA in it same as those of a full grown human so what then makes it different from a grown human? Is it the fact that we cannot talk to the fetus and it cannot talk back so we feel it is irrelevant and its choices and desires do not matter?

If survival is a natural instinct in everyone is the fetus any different? Does it not have a desire TO LIVE? is that desire inconsequential? Is it nonsense? Is it to be thrown away in the rubbish same way a lot of aborted fetuses are thrown away in a rubbish heap.

Some talk about aborting due to complications the baby might have but I ask, would a doctor telling you that your baby would be born with downs syndrome be enough reason to terminate it? Or born with a deformed leg or arm be enough reason to terminate it?

Those who get involved in accidents as adults and loose their limbs still desire to live. Those who sustain brain injury and live as vegetables still crave life. So why do we do what we do in the name of aborting "inconveniences". Is this right?

As a mother or parent or aspiring parent I would love to seek your opinion. If you are either a pro life or a pro abortion person, please air your view to this very hot and sensitive issue.

Should life be negotiated? Should life be as simple as a law on paper? Are we human by aborting (killing) fetuses or are we cold hearted killers who feel we who are alive and who never got aborted should now be the ones who determines the life of others and the termination of future dreams, hopes and desires.

Here is a website that chronicles the stories of some abortion survivors

http://www.teenbreaks.com/abortion/abortionsurvivors.cfm

If a child is born to suffer does suffering now mean they should have been killed to avoid the suffering? Can we say that we know the future of this or any child to determine if suffering would be for all his or her life?

Please let's discuss this.

Mynd44 and lalasticlala kindly move this to front page. We need as many angles to this as possible. Thanks

Hmmm

God help me

mindfulness, Cococandy, Paperlace, shaybebaby, Baby124, pocohantas, lefulefu, tosyne2much, raggedyann, refiner, eyinjuege, thorpido, kanwuliaextra, Daeylar, pcguru1, acidosis, mariesucre, safarigirl, missyadorable, imaima1

Op you skipped complications the mother and fetus may have.

Humanistme:
Op you skipped complications the mother and fetus may have.

You can type that in as your own contribution

I believe that the decision is with the woman. It is her body and therefore her decision. A fetus can't be compared to a human being as it is fully dependent on the mother. As you can't force anyone to donate blood or organs to save a human life, you shouldn't force any woman to carry a pregnancy to save a fetus.

pro choice always

its a woman's right to decide how she wants her body to be

Will I do it? No, I dey fear abortion. Even sex, I dey fear, na to do abortion I go fit?

I personally think anybody that can commit abortion can kill

Mindfulness:
I believe that the decision is with the woman. It is her body and therefore her decision. A fetus can't be compared to a human being as it is fully dependent on the mother. As you can't force anyone to donate blood or organs to save a human life, you shouldn't force any woman to carry a pregnancy to save a fetus.

New born babies are also fully dependent on their mothers. So would you say it is Okay to kill new born babies?

Body organs are different from fetuses.

Evaberry:
pro choice always


its a woman's right to decide how she wants her body to be

Does a fetus not have a right to life as well?

Humanistme:
mindfulness, Cococandy, Paperlace, shaybebaby, Baby124, pocohantas, lefulefu, tosyne2much, raggedyann, refiner, eyinjuege, thorpido, kanwuliaextra, Daeylar, pcguru1, acidosis, mariesucre, safarigirl, missyadorable, imaima1

I can only speak for myself.

Answer:YES.
A woman gets to decide. Unfortunately.

KanwuliaExtra:


I can only speak for myself.

Answer:YES.
A woman gets to decide. Unfortunately.

Why did you end with "unfortunately "? Any regrets?

butterflyl1on:


Why did you end with "unfortunately "? Any regrets?

Unfortunately, men do not get pregnant.
Till then?

My body, my body na my own ooooooh BABY!

KanwuliaExtra:


Unfortunately, men do not get pregnant.
Till then?

My body, my body na my own oooooo

Yes men do not get pregnant but they provide the enabling ingredient.

butterflyl1on:


New born babies are also fully dependent on their mothers. So would you say it is Okay to kill new born babies?

Body organs are different from fetuses.

New born babies can survive outside of the mother's womb, a fetus can't.

Mindfulness:


New born babies can survive outside of the mother's womb, a fetus can't.

A fetus can survive outside the womb from about 22 weeks.

butterflyl1on:


A fetus can survive outside the womb from about 22 weeks.

Where I am located, abortion after the first trimester is not possible.

Mindfulness:


Where I am located, abortion after the first trimester is not possible.

Well abortion does accur at 22 weeks. It depends on the kind of abortion method carried out. There are surgical abortions and if you like I can show you 2nd trimester fetuses which were aborted.

butterflyl1on:


Well abortion does accur at 22 weeks. It depends on the kind of abortion method carried out. There are surgical abortions and if you like I can show you 2nd trimester fetuses which were aborted.

Not where I am located.

Mindfulness:


Not where I am located.

Google is your friend.

butterflyl1on:


Yes men do not get pregnant but they provide the enabling ingredient.

Compared to carrying an unwanted pregnancy?
Make the men carry abeg, I will gladly be “the ingredient”! Shioooooooooor!

I do not like abortions, and I am glad women are learning to take better care of themselves. But unwanted pregnancies will always happen no matter how careful.

The agony of carrying a child you cannot love or take care of is emotionally, physically and spiritually draining.
Children should be conceived and raised with love.
I nor fit abeg ooooooo

Imagine carrying and given birth to a child that will remind you of your enemy in life and in death?
The pikin nor hungry me reach so.
No way ooooooooo

butterflyl1on:


Google is your friend.

Austria
Gestational limit: First three months - in practice often before 12 weeks

Belgium
Gestational limit: 12 weeks

Bulgaria
Gestational limit: 12 weeks

Cyprus
Gestational limit: 28 weeks
Allowed to save a woman's life, to preserve her mental or physical health or in cases of rape or incest and if the child is likely to be born with serious disabilities.

Czech Republic
Gestational limit: 12 weeks

Denmark
Gestational limit: 12 weeks

Estonia
Gestational limit: 12 weeks

Finland
Gestational limit: 24 weeks
Abortions permitted up to 12 weeks to save the woman's life, to preserve her mental health, for economic or social reasons or in the cases of rape or incest. Available up to 20 weeks if there is a risk to the physical health of woman or if she is younger than 17. The procedure can be performed up to 24 weeks if the woman's life is at risk or there is a risk of foetal malformation.


France
Gestational limit: 12 weeks

Germany
Gestational limit: 12 weeks

Greece
Gestational limit: 12 weeks

Hungary
Gestational limit: 12 weeks

Ireland
Gestational limit: No set limit
Conditions: Only allowed if woman's life is at risk (including the risk of suicide).

Italy
Gestational limit: 12 weeks

Latvia
Gestational limit: 12 weeks

[...]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6235557.stm


Next time, make sure you know what you are talking about before you engage me.

sometimes in life, Everyone has these moments where they are caught between a rock and a hard place, I'll never support abortion but neither will I castigate whosoever does one..
Choices are hard to make but its in one's best interest to make choices you can live with

KanwuliaExtra:


Compared to carrying an unwanted pregnancy?
Make the men carry abeg, I will gladly be “the ingredient”! Shioooooooooor!

I do not like abortions, and I am glad women are learning to take better care of themselves. But unwanted pregnancies will always happen no matter how careful.

The agony of carrying a child you cannot love or take care of is emotionally, physically and spiritually draining.
Children should be conceived and raised with love.
I nor fit abeg ooooooo

Imagine carrying and given birth to a child that will remind you of your enemy in life and in death?
The pikin nor hungry me reach so.
No way ooooooooo

So you would kill a child for something they know nothing about and are innocent of?

Using the term "unwanted" now makes me wonder on a few things.

If the sperm would fertilise the egg and the egg would travel down to the womb and implant itself does it not show you that the fetus somehow had a will of its own even though you term it as "unwanted"?

It's the mother's choice if she doesn't want to carry the baby she shouldn't, if she wants an abortion it's her choice.

Furthermore, no one should bring a child into this one when they know they won't love and take care of the child.
Except the person is a surrogate

Damn what anyone says,
No child deserves to be born to parents who don't what the the child

butterflyl1on:


So you would kill a child for something they know nothing about and are innocent of?

Using the term "unwanted" now makes me wonder on a few things.

If the sperm would fertilise the egg and the egg would travel down to the womb and implant itself does it not show you that the fetus somehow had a will of its own even though you term it as "unwanted"?

Yes!

I will gladly kill it.
I am not given to sentiments and emotional blackmail. I’d rather kill it before it is born, instead of after.

Murder na murder.

Your GOD killed Uriah and his baby boy to give King David another man’s wife abi?
I only killed one, your God killed both FATHER AND BABY!

Mindfulness:


Austria
Gestational limit: First three months - in practice often before 12 weeks

Belgium
Gestational limit: 12 weeks

Bulgaria
Gestational limit: 12 weeks

Cyprus
Gestational limit: 28 weeks
Allowed to save a woman's life, to preserve her mental or physical health or in cases of rape or incest and if the child is likely to be born with serious disabilities.

Czech Republic
Gestational limit: 12 weeks

Denmark
Gestational limit: 12 weeks

Estonia
Gestational limit: 12 weeks

Finland
Gestational limit: 24 weeks
Abortions permitted up to 12 weeks to save the woman's life, to preserve her mental health, for economic or social reasons or in the cases of rape or incest. Available up to 20 weeks if there is a risk to the physical health of woman or if she is younger than 17. The procedure can be performed up to 24 weeks if the woman's life is at risk or there is a risk of foetal malformation.


France
Gestational limit: 12 weeks

Germany
Gestational limit: 12 weeks

Greece
Gestational limit: 12 weeks

Hungary
Gestational limit: 12 weeks

Ireland
Gestational limit: No set limit
Conditions: Only allowed if woman's life is at risk (including the risk of suicide).

Italy
Gestational limit: 12 weeks

Latvia
Gestational limit: 12 weeks

[...]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6235557.stm


Next time, make sure you know what you are talking about before you engage me.

You do realise that abortion is not what you know. A lot of it mostly happen even without the knowledge of hospitals.

You are showing me legal limits. Now let me show you the things that happen illegally.


What you see here is abortion at 22 weeks.

The diagram shows how this is done medically and then the horror of those who do theirs without medical assistance.

GRAPHIC CONTENT WARNING!

.

Daeylar:
It's the mother's choice if she doesn't want to carry the baby she shouldn't, if she wants an abortion it's her choice.

Furthermore, no one should bring a child into this one when they know they won't love and take care of the child.
Except the person is a surrogate

Damn what anyone says,
No child deserves to be born to parents who don't what the the child

Why do we have adoption agencies?

KanwuliaExtra:


Yes!

I will gladly kill it.
I am not given to sentiments and emotional blackmail. I’d rather kill it before it is born, instead of after.

Murder na murder.

Your GOD killed Uriah and his baby boy to give King David another man’s wife abi?
I only killed one, your God killed both FATHER AND BABY!

This is not a religious discussion. This is a social discussion based on a presence or a lack of empathy. Kindly keep religion aside. My OP never indicated religion or a religious opinion anywhere. Thank you

butterflyl1on:


You do realise that abortion is not what you know. A lot of it mostly happen even without the knowledge of hospitals.

You are showing me legal limits. Now let me show you the things that happen illegally.


What you see here is abortion at 22 weeks.

The diagram shows how this is done medically and then the horror of those who do theirs without medical assistance.

GRAPHIC CONTENT WARNING!

Where did you see me arguing for illegal abortion or abortion after the first trimester?
And since you find these illegal abortions so horrifying, you must be all for legalized abortion that sets a time limit.

Maybe when you stop your nonsensical emotional rantings, we will be able to have a civil discussion.

Mindfulness:


Where did you see me arguing for illegal abortion or abortion after the first trimester?

Maybe when you stop your nonsensical emotional rantings, we will be able to have a civil discussion.

Where did you see me mention legal abortion limits in my OP?