icybeth:
It is true concerning d date

MightySparrow:
Nairalanders, I have been studying the end times prophecies. Reading through the prophecies of Isaiah, Jeremiah, and most especially Daniel among others. For a balanced view some publications of JW, even Islamic view about end times.
The one that struck me is this issue of 1914 of JW. Going through some historical records and even the interpretation given to it by JWs. The date lacks historical evidence.


Any JW in all the house to justify the the authenticity of the date?

rottennaija:


That's one of the many false doctrine of JWs. The 1914 date is wrong, leading a list of some many false prophecies. One of such false predictions is about "this generation".

If you had noticed, as about 4 or 5 years ago, the governing body of jw had to change the doctrine to some sort of overlapping generation doctrine. This was purely because the generation prophecies failed as it was based on 1914.

To cut the long story short, all of watch tower prophecies has failed. None ever was true. When it fails, they change the doctrine around the prophecies or change the date.


There is no support, scriptural, historical or academic for the 1914 doctrine. However, it a doctrine that watchtower cannot do without, it is a doctrine that will collapse their organization if they try to amend it irrespective of how wrong it is.

I encourage you to make more research. You will certainly discover more.

joyandfaith:
1914​—A Significant Year in Bible Prophecy
DECADES in advance, Bible students proclaimed that there would be significant developments in 1914. What were these, and what evidence points to 1914 as such an important year?
As recorded at Luke 21:24 , Jesus said: “Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations until the appointed times of the nations [“the times of the Gentiles,” King James Version ] are fulfilled.” Jerusalem had been the capital city of the Jewish nation​—the seat of rulership of the line of kings from the house of King David. (Psalm 48:1, 2) However, these kings were unique among national leaders. They sat on “Jehovah’s throne” as representatives of God himself. (1 Chronicles 29:23 ) Jerusalem was thus a symbol of Jehovah’s rulership.
How and when, though, did God’s rulership begin to be “trampled on by the nations”? This happened in 607 B.C.E. when Jerusalem was conquered by the Babylonians. “Jehovah’s throne” became vacant, and the line of kings who descended from David was interrupted. (2 Kings 25:1-26 ) Would this ‘trampling’ go on forever? No, for the prophecy of Ezekiel said regarding Jerusalem’s last king, Zedekiah: “Remove the turban, and take off the crown. . . . It will not belong to anyone until the one who has the legal right comes, and I will give it to him.” (Ezekiel 21:26, 27) “The one who has the legal right” to the Davidic crown is Christ Jesus. (Luke 1:32, 33 ) So the ‘trampling’ would end when Jesus became King.
When would that grand event occur? Jesus showed that the Gentiles would rule for a fixed period of time. The account in Daniel chapter 4 holds the key to knowing how long that period would last. It relates a prophetic dream experienced by King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon. He saw a tree of enormous height that was chopped down. Its stump could not grow because it was banded with iron and copper. An angel declared: “Let seven times pass over it.”​— Daniel 4:10-16 .
In the Bible, trees are sometimes used to represent rulership. (Ezekiel 17:22-24; 31:2-5 ) So the chopping down of the symbolic tree represents how God’s rulership, as expressed through the kings at Jerusalem, would be interrupted. However, the vision served notice that this ‘trampling of Jerusalem’ would be temporary​—a period of “seven times.” How long a period is that?
Revelation 12:6, 14 indicates that three and a half times equal “1,260 days.” “Seven times” would therefore last twice as long, or 2,520 days. But the Gentile nations did not stop ‘trampling’ on God’s rulership a mere 2,520 days after Jerusalem’s fall. Evidently, then, this prophecy covers a much longer period of time. On the basis of Numbers 14:34 and Ezekiel 4:6 , which speak of “a day for a year,” the “seven times” would cover 2,520 years.
The 2,520 years began in October 607 B.C.E., when Jerusalem fell to the Babylonians and the Davidic king was taken off his throne. The period ended in October 1914. At that time, “the appointed times of the nations” ended, and Jesus Christ was installed as God’s heavenly King. * —
Psalm 2:1-6; Daniel 7:13, 14 .
Just as Jesus predicted, his “presence” as heavenly King has been marked by dramatic world developments​—war, famine, earthquakes, pestilences. (Matthew 24:3-8; Luke 21:11 ) Such developments bear powerful testimony to the fact that 1914 indeed marked the birth of God’s heavenly Kingdom and the beginning of “the last days” of this present wicked system of things.​— 2 Timothy 3:1-5 .

MightySparrow:



Thanks so much for the explanation. I read all these in the JW on prophecy of Daniel.

The questions that arise are:
1. One day for one year mentioned in both Leviticus and Ezekiel are to symbolize punishment for Israelites. Is it valid rule for interpretation of prophecy?
2. I feel the return of Israel to Palestine or rebirth of the nation of Israel on 15 th May, 1945 or so under David be Gurion is more suitable for ending the trampling of Jerusalem.
3. A research work of one Carl Johnson Olof posited that the date 607 BCE by many authurities of history was not agreed upon but favoured 586 BCE.
(You can read a download PDF version.)

4. This invisible installation of Jesus, is it clearly supported by the scriptures.

5. Towards the end of Daniels prophecy there is an Epiphanies philopator more suitable for the JW than the one suggested.

MightySparrow:



Thanks so much for the explanation. I read all these in the JW on prophecy of Daniel.

The questions that arise are:
1. One day for one year mentioned in both Leviticus and Ezekiel are to symbolize punishment for Israelites. Is it valid rule for interpretation of prophecy?

2. I feel the return of Israel to Palestine or rebirth of the nation of Israel on 15 th May, 1945 or so under David be Gurion is more suitable for ending the trampling of Jerusalem.

3. A research work of one Carl Johnson Olof posited that the date 607 BCE by many authurities of history was not agreed upon but favoured 586 BCE.
(You can read a download PDF version.)

4. This invisible installation of Jesus, is it clearly supported by the scriptures.

Hairyrapunzel:


JMAN05, CAPTIVATOR, Archolardey and Barrister07 come and give answers

Hairyrapunzel:


JMAN05, CAPTIVATOR, Archolardey and Barrister07 come and give answers

MightySparrow:




I like us to use this medium to educate ourselves, more so to be pragmatic and sincere in our reasoning and discussion.

1. What is the difference between knowledge and indoctrination? To a simple mind they are thes same.. Truth, however, is gotten by continuous criticism of a belief. Otherwise, one becomes a bigot - a repeater of a unquestioned idea. True knowledge starts from a departure from dogma.

.2. The one day for a year was not invented by C.T. Russell.. Long before he was born around fourteenth century, a Jewish Rabbi started to use it to explain prophecy (google it) All prophecies interpreted by it failed except none.
The symbolism is a declaration for punishment of an erring nation not even a clear cut prophecy. It can not therefore, be taking as a tool for interpretation.

3. Isaiah 66: 1 - 8; Isaiah 14: 1 -7.



Isa. 14: 1 - 2. For the Lord will have mercy on Jacob, and will yet choose Israel, and set them in their own land: and the strangers shall be joined with them, and they shall cleave to the house of Jacob. 2 And the people shall take them, and bring them to their place: and the house of Israel shall possess them in the land of the Lord for servants and handmaids: and they shall take them captives, whose captives they were; and they shall rule over their oppressors.

Read the story behind the return of Israelis to the land of Palestine in 1945. How David Ben Gurion declared Israel as a nation after 1870 years after Gen. Titus sacked Jerusalem in 70 CE, spending 1870 years outside Israel. ( You could read Exodus by Uris Leon. An historical novel by a non- religious Israeli)

Is a. 66: 8. Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.

3. I like to point out that all the history books and encyclopedia referred to by JW are not primarily written for religious interpretation but for knowledge. And , as such, the technicality are principles for interpretation of history is not an exclusive right of JW who are not even the custodian but consumers like myself.
So, the 607 BCE taken as the starting point for 1250 days is historically out of point as the event by records available do not mention that occurrence, rather, most reliable records put it at a later date, 586 BCE.

Also, the dream of Nebuchadnezzar had nothing to do with the coming if Jesus or any global war or trampling of Jerusalem. It is all mere conjecture and reckless extrapolation of prophecy.


4. Well I read for knowledge probing into all I like to know not swallowing every information line, hook, and sinker. I try to be accurate as I can be not following things dogmatically.
There is no where in the Bible where Jesus is clearly said would be an invisible king ruling the earth. If He is ruling, why are we not experiencing the peace promised? Till He will return the Devil continues to rule Luke 4:6.

Rejoinder welcome.. I like discussions to be centered on what is right not who is right...


I like you in addition to any other research you might want to do to read The Times of Gentile Reconsidered, by Carl Johnson Olof. He was defellowshipped by JW after he presented a treatise of twelve years work questioning the verity of the claim of JW organization..




Thanks











I

JMAN05:


Reply to my comment oga

MightySparrow:



I have replied. This is a part of the reply mistakenly posted find the complete reply below.

JMAN05:


No, it wasn't a reply to my comments above. Reply to my post one by one as I did yours.

JMAN05:


No, it wasn't a reply to my comments above. Reply to my post one by one as I did yours.

MightySparrow:



What exactly do you want?

JMAN05:


Reply to the point I made in my post one after the other. That way, I understand which of my comment you are replying.

JMAN05:


What made it an invalid rule? Which rule did you think applied in Dan 9:24-25?
If you really understood that article, you won't ask this question. Think of something weightier.

State your reasons and scripture backing it up.

What is the scriptural basis for 586 BCE?

Makes me wonder what you have been reading all along.

JMAN05:
^^^ 1cor 5:11 don't discourse with apostates.

Mightysparrow. Am waiting for your reply.