Dalam0n:


Which truth has christianity helped people to discover that is objectively and univesally accepted?

Sylvekzee:



No, that's not true. Atheists accepts evolution because it provides more evidence of the origin of life than any other theory does at present. If at any point in time another theory comes along and proves evolution inclusive, providing more evidence and promising prove, evolution would be completely abandoned by everyone, including atheists.



There you go proving my point sir. Evolution is still a theory, you are very much invited and encouraged to prove it wrong or right. That's the way of science. Always question your answers.



Atheists relies in science because science relies in Facts. That's all. If religion relied in facts atheists would rely in religion.

budaatum:

Not true! In the 6th edition of Darwin's Origin of Species, he said he was "shadowing forth the principle of natural selection."

Empedocles was the first person to put forward a theory of evolution by survival of the fittest. First flesh, he said, being constituted of fire, air and water in equal parts; and bone, being two parts water to two parts earth and four parts fire; emerged as chemical mixtures of the elements. From these unattached limbs and organs (unsocketed eyes, arms without shoulders, and faces without necks) were formed. These roamed around until they found partners and formed unions which were initially unstable - human headed oxens, ox-headed humans, androgynous creatures with faces and breasts front and back. These creatures were fragile or sterile but the fittest structures survived to become the humans we now see. (Empedocles c. 492—432 B.C.E.)

Don't laugh though. In his day all existence came from the elements which were air, water, fire and earth, and each were said be the god at different times by different philosophers.

butterflyl1on:


The Bible does not teach "believe without questioning "

1st John 4:1

Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world

1st Thessalonians 5: 19

19 Do not quench the Spirit. 20 Do not treat prophecies with contempt 21 but test them all; hold on to what is good, 22 reject every kind of evil

Etc

Testing here means to prove the word of God. How does one prove the word of God, when it becomes FACT through occurrence or confirmation.

butterflyl1on:


Science that is limited to the limitations of man. How can it then determine ALL truths? What is this STANDARD for the determination of ALL TRUTHS? Is it an unbiased standard outside mans input or a standard still orchestrated by man?

KingEbukasBlog:


How will you know if my answer is indeed objective and universally accepted ?

Dalam0n:


How do you test the word of God? If this is true all the endless confusion that is christianity today will NOT be.

How do you test which is true between the young earth creationist and the old earth creationist view? How do you test the difference btw those tithers vs the non tithers view? How do you test btw the trinitarians vs the non trinitarians view? How do you test the true position in christianity and cone out with the right position? What is the criteria and process involved?

Let's start with the young earth and old earth creationist view. Which one is true and how can it be tested to know the true position?

Dalam0n:


If it is true then it will can be tested universally and accepted the same way. The multiplication table is an example of something that is universally accept to be true by all that have studied it. It is the same anywhere all over the earth and it is accepted by everybody, it can be tested and shown to be true the world over. 10×9=90 and this is true all over the world.

What truth has christianity helped to discover that is universally and objectively acceptable to all that look at it?

butterflyl1on:


Every test is carried out under a CONTROLLED environment.

Materialistic atheists have science as their controlled environment.

Creationists have their own controlled environment who is known as THE HOLY SPIRIT.

when you do not have it then your controlled environment test cannot work and why?


1 Corinthians 2:10-16

10 these are the things God has revealed to us by his Spirit.

The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. 11 For who knows a person’s thoughts except their own spirit within them? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 12 What we have received is not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may understand what God has freely given us. 13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words.[a] 14 The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit. 15 The person with the Spirit makes judgments about all things, but such a person is not subject to merely human judgments, 16 for,

“Who has known the mind of the Lord
so as to instruct him?”[b]
But we have the mind of Christ.

KingEbukasBlog:


Atheism is not the opposite of religion , so I don't get why you are trying to make it seem like there is a contrast . There are religious atheists . And atheists who have superstitious beliefs in magic , reincarnation , voodoo , fairies , spirits etc



Funny enough the founders of modern science were Christians . Most discoveries in science were made by religious people . Most Nobel prize laureates , fathers of different areas in science were all religious .

Atheism rejects deification , nothing more , nothing less . It does not make you curious , it does not encourage you to embrace science . In fact , most hideous and dangerous ideologies like Nihilism that encourages rebellion and suicide were atheistic ideologies .

JackBizzle:



The point was that the teaching of religious evolution is indoctrination. Evolution and God (of the bible) are incompatible.


Kindly Swerve.

butterflyl1on:


Jackbizzle aka DumbBIzzle has used sleep as a cop out mechanism. He opened a thread which as usual backfired on him.

Niggah buried himself with his own hands AS USUAL

butterflyl1on:


Every test is carried out under a CONTROLLED environment.

Materialistic atheists have science as their controlled environment.

Creationists have their own controlled environment who is known as THE HOLY SPIRIT.

when you do not have it then your controlled environment test cannot work and why?


1 Corinthians 2:10-16

10 these are the things God has revealed to us by his Spirit.

The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. 11 For who knows a person’s thoughts except their own spirit within them? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 12 What we have received is not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may understand what God has freely given us. 13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words.[a] 14 The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit. 15 The person with the Spirit makes judgments about all things, but such a person is not subject to merely human judgments, 16 for,

“Who has known the mind of the Lord
so as to instruct him?”[b]
But we have the mind of Christ.

KingEbukasBlog:


My brother , will my position determine if the bible is inerrant or not ? Of what use is my response ?

KingEbukasBlog:


Atheism is not the opposite of religion , so I don't get why you are trying to make it seem like there is a contrast . There are religious atheists . And atheists who have superstitious beliefs in magic , reincarnation , voodoo , fairies , spirits etc

Funny enough the founders of modern science were Christians .

Most discoveries in science were made by religious people . Most Nobel prize laureates , fathers of different areas in science were all religious .

Atheism rejects deification , nothing more , nothing less . It does not make you curious , it does not encourage you to embrace science . In fact , most hideous and dangerous ideologies like Nihilism that encourages rebellion and suicide were atheistic ideologies .

KingEbukasBlog:


What kind of question is this ? Ok tell me , what truth has atheism helped to discover that is universally and objectively acceptable to all that look at it ?

If you can answer this , then I'll answer yours . Deal ?

Sylvekzee:


I would love to continue but I have to crash for the day.

Sylvekzee:
But before I go I would have you know that being religious was the order of the day during those times you talk of. Those scientists being religious was just prevailing societal inclinations. Every prominent person of those times had to be religious. Just like, for example, today in the US, society demands every President is a Christian.

KingEbukasBlog:


That's why 'discovery' is in quote . Knee-jerk reaction spotted .

I've talked about evolution as an ancient idea that has roots in paganism before on this forum .

KingEbukasBlog:


First , there is a problem we have to identify and that's the presupposition from the OP that there is indoctrination(to accept something uncritically ) in Christianity . There is not , if there were we won't have different biblical interpretations , sects in Christianity , and schools of thought in Christian theology . And why is this so ? Because Christianity allows for skepticism

Example :
Being skeptical about the literal interpretation of the bible , we have St Augustine's allegorical exegesis
Being skeptical about the divinity of Christ led to Arianism
Critical examination of God's providence and freewill led to Molinism
Critical examination about the book of revelation led to preterism
Critical look at how God establishes His presence with man led to Sandemanianism

The list is endless ...

Christian theology in fact allows for rationality while studying the tenants of Christianity and the bible .

As a child I wasn't told to take whatever being taught to me as facts . Look at me moving from creationism , progressive creationism and now to special creationism .

If Christianity allowed indoctrination as the OP claims, there wouldn't be Christian theology , St Thomas Aquinas wouldn't have made arguments for God's existence to defend his belief . Irish priest George Berkeley's profound argument for idealism - Esse est percipi - wouldn't have been made . George Lemaitre , the Belgian priest wouldn't have developed the Big Bang Theory , Christian archaeologists wouldn't bother to verify the stories in the bible etc . The list again is endless ...

Dalam0n:


Christianity does not allow for skepticism. Even the bible says that he that believes not is CONDEMNED already, because he refuses to believe in Jesus the son of God and his sacrifice. Nothing is against skepticism like those words. The difference in theology for example has nothing to do with indoctrination but everything to do with disagreement. Even the competing theological positions all try to claim that the others are wrong and only them are right.

The YEC always try to cast aspersions on the positing of the OEC, the trinitariansalways try to cast aspersions on the non trinitarians and on and on. It's not as if they accept both opposite positions as true. They always try to tell their followers that their own position is true the competing theological positions are false.





Let's take just one out of the rest. Is Araisim true? What is the true biblical position with regards to the divinity of Jesus?



Christian theological difference is as a result of disagreement and it doesn't stand against indoctrination at all. It simply shows that christians are in disagreement with each other.

budaatum:

So? It mustn't be mentioned again? Or you suggesting I go read where you wrote it? Are you like, 12, by any chance?

Dalam0n:
KingEbukasBlog is the bible inerrant or not?

Dalam0n:


Am comparing scientific truths and religious truths. So far scientific truths remain the ONLY universally acceptable and objective truths. Religious truths on the other hand are only claims they don't even qualify as truths.

KingEbukasBlog:


Not all scientific truths are universally acceptable . Anyway , what qualifies as a religious truth ? Define the term 'religious truth'

KingEbukasBlog:


You are making my point . Skepticism is about doubts and disagreement ; if I were to agree , I wouldn't have been in doubt .Eg You doubt God's existence , I don't .Am I Are we in disagreement yes ! Another Eg Am I on OEC creationists? Yes ! Am I skeptical about (disagree with ) the YEC position ? Yes ! and vice versa When you are in doubt , you disagree ; when you are in doubt , you can also hold a position while totally pointing out flaws out of skepticism in another position.

And that's why we have myriads and myriads and myriads of disagreements in Christianity because it is clearly open to scrutiny . From the nature of God himself to every bit of each verse in the bible .

KingEbukasBlog:


Yup , it is . Now what ?

KingEbukasBlog:


Yup , it is . Now what ?

felixomor:


I like that

JackBizzle:



[s]Felixomoron, I take god beg you, free this thread. We dont need additional foolishness. I kneel down beg you[/s].

KingEbukasBlog:


Not all scientific truths are universally acceptable . Anyway , what qualifies as a religious truth ? Define the term 'religious truth'

JackBizzle:



Felixomoron, I take god beg you, free this thread. We dont need additional foolishness. I kneel down beg you.