agaugust:

America has 2,385 M1 Abrams tanks in storage with 105mm guns, that is missing on your list...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equipment_of_the_United_States_Army#Vehicles

France has 1,355 AMX 30 tanks with 105mm gun in storage, that too is missing on your list.

You can show us source that all the thousands of 105mm tanks in NATO armory have vanished into thin air one cold windy morning!

Let Russia attack NATO today with full tank force and you will see NATO 105mm tanks come out of storage.

Those are called reserve forces. Are you in the Navy or you are a fake? LOL !
.

that because they in storage, not reserve or stragic reserve or any thing like that, they set in the desert and get zero love. It would take a lot of cash to bring them up to operational level.

AMX30s not in use with France, not to mention it is impobil to say how many AMX 30s are even in France since they sold a lot of them and spare parts need to come from some where.

reserve forces maintain there gear, they get brough out of storage every now and then to be used, they not just abandoned some where. Using you logic sa has over 1500 Eland armoured cars, a bunch of impales, mirage, cheetahs, allouets, buffel MPVs extra extra.

MikeZA: Ooh yeah? NATO main battle tanks use 120mm gun. Name operational NATO main battle tank that uses a 105 gun.

leo1 is still used, and Turky and Greece still have some old ass tanks in serves.

http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=35883:south-africa-has-trained-more-than-7-000-drc-soldiers&catid=50:Land&Itemid=105

In just over 10 years of military training assistance to the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC), the South African Army has improved the skill levels of more than 7 000 members of FARDC (Forces Armees de la Republique Democratique du Congo).

The most recent round of training in March, under current Mission Thebe commander Colonel Arthur Sipho Nziweni, saw DRC instructors improve their skills in five different aspects of training: individual; the use and care of platoon weapons; artillery; air defence; and infantry training, the backbone of ground forces all over the world.

Training assistance between the two countries was provided for in a DRC/SA Defence Co-operation Agreement signed in June 2004 followed by a memorandum of understanding on practical assistance later in the same year. It was not until 2006 that South African officers and instructors were despatched to the DRC for the first round of training. The scope of the first deployment covered basic military training (BMT) as well as training in the specialist musterings of infantry, artillery and air defence alongside elements of service support. This was followed by a similar course four years later.

“All training to date has ended with an integrated exercise where soldiers have been able to put their newly acquired skills into practice,” said Colonel JL Tsalupondo, SSO Operations Headquarters at 46 SA Brigade.

The size of the SANDF contingent deployed on Mission Thebe is determined by the actual training that needs to be done and other factors on the ground, he said.


“Currently only headquarters staff is in the mission area ahead of the next round of training. Once the size of the next training intake is known decisions will be taken on how many South African instructors and in what specific musterings will be deployed,” he said.

Nziweni is the fourth mission commander for Thebe. The first was Colonel Piet Serenko followed by colonels Thulani Zungu and Sidney Mdluwa.

andrewza:

leo1 is still used, and Turky and Greece still have some old ass tanks in serves.

Yes,but what did countries who still have the leo 1 deploy in afghanistan?

MikeZA: Ooh yeah? NATO main battle tanks use 120mm gun. Name operational NATO main battle tank that uses a 105 gun.

Greece and Turkey have thousands of 105mm gun tanks as MBT FULLY OPERATIONAL today 2014. I posted clear proof this afternoon, are you blind?
.

andrewza:

that because they in storage, not reserve or stragic reserve or any thing like that, they set in the desert and get zero love. It would take a lot of cash to bring them up to operational level.

AMX30s not in use with France, not to mention it is impobil to say how many AMX 30s are even in France since they sold a lot of them and spare parts need to come from some where.

reserve forces maintain there gear, they get brough out of storage every now and then to be used, they not just abandoned some where. Using you logic sa has over 1500 Eland armoured cars, a bunch of impales, mirage, cheetahs, allouets, buffel MPVs extra extra.

You need a source to prove that 1,355 AMX 30 tanks of France are not in storage, that they were thrown to garbage dump.

Sources say not frontline service, not that they are useless and thrown out of amoury into the garbage dump.

South Africa has only 2 G-6 artilley in service according do defenceweb, means the remaining 41 units are dumped into garbage bin?

You think at all?

agaugust:

You need a source to prove that 1,355 AMX 30 tanks of France are not in storage, that they were thrown to garbage dump.

Sources say not frontline service, not that they are useless and thrown out of amoury into the garbage dump.

South Africa has only 2 G-6 artilley in service according do defenceweb, means the remaining 41 units are dumped into garbage bin?

You think at all?

no I need proof they in storage, storage is not cheap by the way.

Nope the reaming are stated as being in storage AKA reserve, there is no mention of the French AMX30s being in storage.

andrewza:

no I need proof they in storage, storage is not cheap by the way.

Nope the reaming are stated as being in storage AKA reserve, there is no mention of the French AMX30s being in storage.

You lost the root of the whole argument. Topic is, NATO has more 105mm tanks than 120mm tanks manufactured, it's not argument about tanks in frontline service or reserves/storage.

I don't care what's in reserve or frontline, France has 1,355 tanks with 105mm gun, but only 400 tanks with 120mm gun.

My argument stands on the original subject matter....you have gone off topic to save your faces from defeat.

NATO manufactured more 105mm tanks than 120mm.

Proved beyond doubt
.

agaugust:

You lost the root of the whole argument. Topic is, NATO has more 105mm tanks than 120mm tanks manufactured, it's not argument about tanks in frontline service or reserves/storage.

I don't care what's in reserve or frontline, France has 1,355 tanks with 105mm gun, but only 400 tanks with 120mm gun.

My argument stands on the original subject matter....you have gone off topic to save your faces from defeat.

NATO manufactured more 105mm tanks than 120mm.

Proved beyond doubt
.

no you stupiid rettard they do not have any amx30s until proven other wise.

http://www.timeslive.co.za/thetimes/2014/08/18/army-to-get-smart

The SA National Defence Force plans to launch a defence academy to ensure that all officers of the rank of captain or above have a degree.

The establishment of a policing college was announced last year.

The defence force has an academy in Saldanha, affiliated to the University of Stellenbosch.

But last week, speaking on the state of the defence force, its chief, Lieutenant-General Vusumuzi Masondo, said: "Our current military academy lacks the capacity to supply the requirements of the SANDF. "

Defence Minister Nosiviwe Mapisa-Nqakula told parliament last month that the SANDF had to establish its "own fully fledged defence academy".

Masondo said: "We want to offer courses that are relevant, specifically to the army - be it engineering or other highly technical subjects."

Masondo said that by 2020 all officers in the SANDF would have to have a recognised tertiary educational qualification.

Asked when the academy would be launched, Masondo said there were no definite "time-frames".

"It is still in the planning phase, but it will happen."

Masondo described engineers as "a vital asset in any defence force".

Army engineers are being used in Eastern Cape to build bridges and roads for impoverished communities that are cut off during the rainy season.

Institute for Security Studies senior researcher Andre Roux said: "[ In] other militaries, to become an officer you have to complete a military degree. In the SANDF only a small number of officers are graduates.

"By professionalising, you have a military practitioner who can work in the international environment whose actions are recognised [as

andrewza:


no you stupiid rettard they do not have any amx30s until proven other wise.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMX-30

France has 1,355 AMX-30 tanks with 105mm gun still existing inside French army amoury, they did not transfer them to South Africa...you are confirmed to be a 100% incurable Retaard !

.

agaugust:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMX-30

France has 1,355 AMX-30 tanks with 105mm gun still existing inside French army amoury, they did not transfer them to South Africa...you are confirmed to be a 100% incurable Retaard !

.

your own source says former operator. SA was a former operator of the Daphne submarine, do we still have them? No other than 1.

Rubbish military. No discussion necessary.

http://en.starafrica.com/news/nigerian-military-to-probe-dereliction-of-duty.html

The Nigerian army has said it would try some 100 soldiers from its 7th Division based in Maiduguri over acts of [size=14pt]disloyalty and cowardice to deal with the Boko Haram insurgency[/size].A special military panel has been set up upon the instructions of the security chiefs to deal with the case, security sources claimed on Saturday.

The soldiers in question were said to have been deployed to engage Boko Haram militants who captured Damboa and Gwoza but withdrew from the fight.

The sources said they are apart from those who had mutinied in May citing inferior military gears to fight the insurgents.

The Nigerian military high command is said to be irked by the behaviour of its soldiers who are being detained.

The army has been struggling to deal with the five-year insurgency with the abduction in April of some 200 schoolgirls in the northeast of the country by Boko Haram still unresolved.

andrewza:

your own source says former operator. SA was a former operator of the Daphne submarine, do we still have them? No other than 1.

South Africa is not France, you don't manufacture Daphne submarines and you cannot do whatever you want to do with them, you don't even have spare parts production.

France produces AMX-30 tanks, and only a dunce like you will say a whole France cannot bring her AMX-30 tanks into action because French engineers cannot start the engine.

Then you don't know how to make intelligent argument, the subject matter is about what NATO manufactured in total NOT what is on front line service or what's on reserves/storage.

You people just argue out of context and then try to save your ugly faces after you are proved wrong.

I am not surprised anyway, a whole South African army General failed military exams and keeps getting promotion to command your army, the dude was making arguments off topic and quoting out of context in his military academy exams, that's why he failed.

All South Africans are fools because intelligence is a very scarce commodity in your m.entally backward country that celebrates failures

.

agaugust:

South Africa is not France, you don't manufacture Daphne submarines and you cannot do whatever you want to do with them, you don't even have spare parts production.

France produces AMX-30 tanks, and only a dunce like you will say a whole France cannot bring her AMX-30 tanks into action because French engineers cannot start the engine.

Then you don't know how to make intelligent argument, the subject matter is about what NATO manufactured in total NOT what is on front line service or what's on reserves/storage.

You people just argue out of context and then try to save your ugly faces after you are proved wrong.

I am not surprised anyway, a whole South African army General failed military exams and keeps getting promotion to command your army, the dude was making arguments off topic and quoting out of context in his military academy exams, that's why he failed.

All South Africans are fools because intelligence is a very scarce commodity in your m.entally backward country that celebrates failures

.

there is no law stopping us from making spar parts. and the one remaining dauphine can sail, though I would not risk a dive to crush depth.

France produced as in past tense, they do not make them any more.

no the subget matter is that the most common NATO used tank main gun is the 120mm, old tanks that have been discarded do not count.

Any case there are only 250 AMX30s left in France, the rest where sold or used as spare parts, scarped extra extra. France does not list them in her military, stored or other wise. They of zero use to the French military.

andrewza:

there is no law stopping us from making spar parts. and the one remaining dauphine can sail, though I would not risk a dive to crush depth.

France produced as in past tense, they do not make them any more.

no the subget matter is that the most common NATO used tank main gun is the 120mm, old tanks that have been discarded do not count.

Any case there are only 250 AMX30s left in France, the rest where sold or used as spare parts, scarped extra extra. France does not list them in her military, stored or other wise. They of zero use to the French military.

I started the argument and my subject matter was NATO production, not numbers in service, you did not start the topic, so don't try tell me what the topic is, that's how you fail exams, you know the question more than the examiner who set or drafted the questions. Foolishness.

Most of the 3,500 AMX-30 tanks with 105mm guns were produced by France, less than 900 tanks with 120mm guns were produced by France.

My very first source and argument was manufacture NOT in service. Don't teach me about what I started with my own head, I didn't borrow yours.

agaugust:

[size=10pt]Dude, all you know about military stuff is just what you google today. I look at the far past, near history or records and today, plus the future.

I did not say 105mm guns are NATO standard for tanks, I said they are mostly 105mm guns existing.


I said it and I posted source to prove it, MOST NATO
tanks from cold war era till today ever built, have 105mm guns, and the source said it is because 105mm gun was universal in the whole western world in cold war.



Those guns are not thrown away, they are in reserve and still on thousands of NATO reserve tanks. You think NATO is just Britain , France , Germany? LOL, there are 28 countries in NATO !

Even the German Leopard tank has versions built with the 105mm gun, what NATO does is to allow 'SWAP' of 120mm guns on their tanks if they want it anytime.

"The Leopard 2 tank thus initially used perforated armour, and not Chobham armour as is sometimes claimed. PT-14 used the 120 mm Rheinmetall gun (as eventually did the U.S. M1 Abrams). After this, two new prototype hulls and three turrets were ordered, one (PT-20) mounting the original L7A3 105 mm gun and a Hughes fire control system, a second (PT-19) with the same fire control system but able to "swap out" the gun for the 120 mm Rheinmetall design."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leopard_2

The largest number of tanks existing in frontline service or storage reserves in 28 countries of NATO have 105mm guns

You remain Patrick, our resident Dumbo Domingo

.

That is a 100% copy of what I posted yesterday, the bold font was my original argument before you Retaarded South Africans twisted it because your weak brains CANNOT stay focused on subject matter, reason why you fail exams in your country and your foolish educational system keeps prompting you all to the next higher class when you score 33%.

Nation of fools
.

agaugust:

I started the argument and my subject matter was NATO production, not numbers in service, you did not start the topic, so don't try tell me what the topic is, that's how you fail exams, you know the question more than the examiner who set or drafted the questions. Foolishness.

Most of the 3,500 AMX-30 tanks with 105mm guns were produced by France, less than 900 tanks with 120mm guns were produced by France.

My very first source and argument was manufacture NOT in service. Don't teach me about what I started with my own head, I didn't borrow yours.

You said that the reason NATO used HEAT to on there tanks and not HE was because they 105mm, not 155mm. We told you that that is wrong the most common NATO tank gun is 120mm. This has now been proven.

So, cold war is over, the dutch once had a massive force of LEO2 now that have no tanks at all, the ERUO militaries have all been down sizing for some time now.

no your very first source was that a 155mm SPH is a AT system, witch proofs your level of retardation

andrewza:

You said that the reason NATO used HEAT to on there tanks and not HE was because they 105mm, not 155mm. We told you that that is wrong the most common NATO tank gun is 120mm. This has now been proven.

So, cold war is over, the dutch once had a massive force of LEO2 now that have no tanks at all, the ERUO militaries have all been down sizing for some time now.

no your very first source was that a 155mm SPH is a AT system, witch proofs your level of retardation

Show me where I said Palmaria is an Anti-Tank system, show me.

I said Palmaria can do direct fire because it is built with special direct fire system and can d.estroy a tank with a 155mm gun shell 12kg of TNT high explosives double of an anti-tank mine.

RPGs have s.h.ot down helicopters, if I say that, does it mean I have said RPG is an anti-aircraft system?

You will score 3% not even 33%, if you write exam in Nigeria!
.

agaugust:

Mumu

The 2,385 M1 Abrams tank reserved in American storage that you admitted to exist, proves to you NATO keeps all its larger force of 105mm gun tanks in storage.

You think France's 1,355 AMX-30 tanks vanished into thin air? They are in storage.

Let Russia attack France today and see if France will not open storage and bring out from its largest force of 1,355 AMX tanks. You may be the only fool that will go to big war with only 400 tanks of 120mm when your enemy has 2,000 T-72 tanks.

Mumu, you don't know how military weapons reserve forces work
.

1. The majority if US tanks are 120mm
2. Until you prove otherwise, France has no AMX in storage

Mumu, you do t understand how facts work

agaugust:

America has 2,385 M1 Abrams tanks in storage with 105mm guns, that is missing on your list...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equipment_of_the_United_States_Army#Vehicles

France has 1,355 AMX 30 tanks with 105mm gun in storage, that too is missing on your list.

You can show us source that all the thousands of 105mm tanks in NATO armory have vanished into thin air one cold windy morning!

Let Russia attack NATO today with full tank force and you will see NATO 105mm tanks come out of storage.

Those are called reserve forces. Are you in the Navy or you are a fake? LOL !
.

. France has no AMX in storage r

agaugust:

Greece and Turkey have thousands of 105mm gun tanks as MBT FULLY OPERATIONAL today 2014. I posted clear proof this afternoon, are you blind?
.

And they are the minority of NATO mbts

agaugust:

You need a source to prove that 1,355 AMX 30 tanks of France are not in storage, that they were thrown to garbage dump.

Sources say not frontline service, not that they are useless and thrown out of amoury into the garbage dump.

South Africa has only 2 G-6 artilley in service according do defenceweb, means the remaining 41 units are dumped into garbage bin?

You think at all?

Dude there is no source that says the AMX is in storage at all either

Until you prove otherwise France has ZERO AMX

France is listed under FORMER Operators for a reason - or can't you read English?

agaugust:

You lost the root of the whole argument. Topic is, NATO has more 105mm tanks than 120mm tanks manufactured, it's not argument about tanks in frontline service or reserves/storage.

I don't care what's in reserve or frontline, France has 1,355 tanks with 105mm gun, but only 400 tanks with 120mm gun.

My argument stands on the original subject matter....you have gone off topic to save your faces from defeat.

NATO manufactured more 105mm tanks than 120mm.

Proved beyond doubt
.

No, the argument is that you said NATO does not use HE for AT because they only have mainly 105mm guns

We laughed at you and had to teach you that NATO mainly uses 120mm

Now you are trying to tell us that you were talking about all the tanks they ever built

Shameless liar

agaugust:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMX-30

France has 1,355 AMX-30 tanks with 105mm gun still existing inside French army amoury, they did not transfer them to South Africa...you are confirmed to be a 100% incurable Retaard !

.

It does not say that anywhere in that article.

Why does fraud come so naturally to Nigerians?

agaugust:

South Africa is not France, you don't manufacture Daphne submarines and you cannot do whatever you want to do with them, you don't even have spare parts production.

France produces AMX-30 tanks, and only a dunce like you will say a whole France cannot bring her AMX-30 tanks into action because French engineers cannot start the engine.

Then you don't know how to make intelligent argument, the subject matter is about what NATO manufactured in total NOT what is on front line service or what's on reserves/storage.

You people just argue out of context and then try to save your ugly faces after you are proved wrong.

I am not surprised anyway, a whole South African army General failed military exams and keeps getting promotion to command your army, the dude was making arguments off topic and quoting out of context in his military academy exams, that's why he failed.

All South Africans are fools because intelligence is a very scarce commodity in your m.entally backward country that celebrates failures

.

Great argument

Pity that there are no facts to support it.

120mm is the note of preference for NATO - proven

HE is not used for AT - proven

Augubgugugus is a desperate liar whim has had his arse handed to him for the last 3 days - fact

You should learn to walk away, you would humiliate yourself less.

[quote author=agaugust]

I started the argument and my subject matter was NATO production, not numbers in service, you did not start the topic, so don't try tell me what the topic is, that's how you fail exams, you know the question more than the examiner who set or drafted the questions. Foolishness.

Most of the 3,500 AMX-30 tanks with 105mm guns were produced by France, less than 900 tanks with 120mm guns were produced by France.

My very first source and argument was manufacture NOT in service. Don't teach me about what I started with my own head, I didn't borrow yours.
[/

agaugust:
Tanks dont use HE in anti-tank role because they generally carry a smaller gun, NATO mostly 105mm....a Palmaria is a goddam 155mm !!!!

Augubgugugus this is how you started the argument

And we have just shown you that NATO tanks are not mostly 105mm

agaugust:

Show me where I said Palmaria is an Anti-Tank system, show me.

I said Palmaria can do direct fire because it is built with special direct fire system and can d.estroy a tank with a 155mm gun shell 12kg of TNT high explosives double of an anti-tank mine.

RPGs have s.h.ot down helicopters, if I say that, does it mean I have said RPG is an anti-aircraft system?

You will score 3% not even 33%, if you write exam in Nigeria!
.

Hahaha

He killed you- your response doesn't even respond to his post

Lool - your sainty has crumbled after such a vicious pounding

patches689:

Augubgugugus this is how you started the argument

And we have just shown you that NATO tanks are not mostly 105mm

agaugust:

Tanks dont use HE in anti-tank role because they generally carry a smaller gun, NATO mostly 105mm ....a Palmaria is a goddam 155mm !!!!

You just proved me right, what is the meaning of the statement that you say started the argument|?.... NATO mostly 105mm

Does it mean NATO mostly in service/reserve, or NATO mostly manufactured/ever built?

I made a second comment to clarify that I mean NATO ever built....

agaugust:

I did not say 105mm guns are NATO standard for tanks, I said they are mostly 105mm guns existing.


I said it and I posted source to prove it, MOST NATO tanks from cold war era till today ever built, have 105mm guns , and the source said it is because 105mm gun was universal in the whole western world in cold war.

You see why you South Africans fail exams in school and end up with 33% ? You cannot understand simple sentences, you cannot read and interpret statements correctly.

In exam they asked you how many 105mm gun tanks NATO ever built, you wrote answer of how many 105mm gun NATO currently has in service!

ALL SOUTH AFRICANS ARE FOOLS !!! You just proved me right.

You were building ALL and ALL your arguments 100% off topic and out of context, you were answering a totally different question from what you were being asked. Soweto nation of fool !



.

agaugust:

Show me where I said Palmaria is an Anti-Tank system, show me.

I said Palmaria can do direct fire because it is built with special direct fire system and can d.estroy a tank with a 155mm gun shell 12kg of TNT high explosives double of an anti-tank mine.

RPGs have s.h.ot down helicopters, if I say that, does it mean I have said RPG is an anti-aircraft system?

You will score 3% not even 33%, if you write exam in Nigeria!
.

Yes it can do direct fire, all SPH and howitzers and field guns can do it. Does not mean there HE rounds will knock out a MBT.


Just like whith what I said that a luck 155mm round can knock a Tank a luck RPG can hit a chopper. If you read the book (or if tou lazy watch the move audio commantary) black hawk down they talk how the skie was full of RPGs. Most missing there target. A helcopter is vanrbil to ground fir when landing/tacking off, fast ropeing, sling loading extra extra. Because then they low and slow.

agaugust:



You just proved me right, what is the meaning of the statement that you say started the argument|?.... NATO mostly 105mm

Does it mean NATO mostly in service/reserve, or NATO mostly manufactured/ever built?

I made a second comment to clarify that I mean NATO ever built....





You see why you South Africans fail exams in school and end up with 33% ? You cannot understand simple sentences, you cannot read and interpret statements correctly.

In exam they asked you how many 105mm gun tanks NATO ever built, you wrote answer of how many 105mm gun NATO currently has in service!

ALL SOUTH AFRICANS ARE FOOLS !!! You just proved me right.

You were building ALL and ALL your arguments 100% off topic and out of context, you were answering a totally different question from what you were being asked. Soweto nation of fool !



.

Well done for falling into my trap

If you were talking about all the tanks ever built then it would be the 75mm guns found on WW2 tanks - so you weren't talking about that

If you were including reserves in your statement then why would armies focus on ammunition for their reserves? Why would they not use HE for their frontline 120mm armed tanks?

Because HE is not an effective AT weapon - which was the real point of the argument ( which you ran away from)

You have still to even show that these massive reserves even exist - there is only one tank bone-yard in Europe and that is a British bone-yard in Germany.

Finally, we were talking about vehicals in service and the ammunition they use - you said something stupid and you backtracked to make a new argument.

And regardless, as I have shown - NATO tanks mostly use 120mm. As confirmed by multiple sources.

You see augubug yet again I have manipulated you with ease. Yet again I have shown you to be an unscrupulous liar. Yet again I have obliterated your argument on every level.

You poor man, you don't argue because you think you are right. You argue because you can't accept that you are wrong- which makes you the biggest fool of them all