sirjerry:
check it out http://monthlyreview.org/2013/04/01/the-military-defeat-of-the-south-africans-in-angola/

Nothing new, been posted many times.

Also:

The Monthly Reveiw - "An Independent Socialist Magazine"
(That is literally what they call themselves)

Yeah, they will totally not write a biased artical about how SOCIALIST Cuba and SOCIALIST Angolan Forces defeat CAPITALIST South African and CAPITALIST UNITA Forces who were supported by CAPITALIST America

Their actual account of the battle of quito itself is absolutely laughable.

But we can discuss it if you truly wish.

Let me start out by saying that Fidel Castro had the Cuban General who commanded the Cuban attack killed for a reason

sirjerry:
check it out http://monthlyreview.org/2013/04/01/the-military-defeat-of-the-south-africans-in-angola/

The fact that that's a socialist report makes it pure communist propaganda bull not even worth reading.

sirjerry:


check it out

http://monthlyreview.org/2013/04/01/the-military-defeat-of-the-south-africans-in-angola/

[size=16pt]
The Military Defeat of the South Africans in Angola[/size]

by Professor Horace Campbell

topics: History places: Africa, Angola

Horace Campbell is Professor of African American Studies and Political Science at Syracuse University. He is the author of Global NATO and the Catastrophic Failure in Libya: Lessons for Africa in the Forging of African Unity (Monthly Review Press, forthcoming), as well as Rasta and Resistance: From Marcus Garvey to Walter Rodney (1987) and Barack Obama and 21st Century Politics: A Revolutionary Moment in the USA (2010).


"In Angola in the spring of 1988 the armed forces of apartheid South Africa and the US-backed mercenaries of Jonas Savimbi were defeated by the combined force of the Cuban military, the Angolan army, and the military units of the liberation movements of South Africa and Namibia. This led directly to the independence of Namibia and then to the fall of the apartheid regime in South Africa itself. Cuba’s heroic role is the outstanding example of principled anti-imperialist internationalism in the last decades of the twentieth century."



http://monthlyreview.org/2013/04/01/the-military-defeat-of-the-south-africans-in-angola/


CASE CLOSED


CUBAN FORCES, YOUNG AND INEXPERIENCED BOYS AND GIRLS DEFEATED SOUTH AFRICAN MILITARY THE BEST OF SADF IN ANGOLA



.

AugustineAgain:


[size=16pt]
The Military Defeat of the South Africans in Angola[/size]

by Professor Horace Campbell

topics: History places: Africa, Angola

Horace Campbell is Professor of African American Studies and Political Science at Syracuse University. He is the author of Global NATO and the Catastrophic Failure in Libya: Lessons for Africa in the Forging of African Unity (Monthly Review Press, forthcoming), as well as Rasta and Resistance: From Marcus Garvey to Walter Rodney (1987) and Barack Obama and 21st Century Politics: A Revolutionary Moment in the USA (2010).


"In Angola in the spring of 1988 the armed forces of apartheid South Africa and the US-backed mercenaries of Jonas Savimbi were defeated by the combined force of the Cuban military, the Angolan army, and the military units of the liberation movements of South Africa and Namibia. This led directly to the independence of Namibia and then to the fall of the apartheid regime in South Africa itself. Cuba’s heroic role is the outstanding example of principled anti-imperialist internationalism in the last decades of the twentieth century."



http://monthlyreview.org/2013/04/01/the-military-defeat-of-the-south-africans-in-angola/


CASE CLOSED


CUBAN FORCES, YOUND AND INEXPERIENCED, YET DEFEATED SOUTH AFRICAN MILITARY AT IT'S BEST IN ANGOLA



.

patches689:



The Monthly Reveiw - "An Independent Socialist Magazine"
(That is literally what they call themselves)

Yeah, they will totally not write a biased artical about how SOCIALIST Cuba and SOCIALIST Angolan Forces defeat CAPITALIST South African and CAPITALIST UNITA Forces who were supported by CAPITALIST America

Their actual account of the battle of quito itself is absolutely laughable.

But we can discuss it if you truly wish.

Let me start out by saying that Fidel Castro had the Cuban General who commanded the Cuban attack killed for a reason

And our troops were mainly just as young and inexperienced - or you dont know that the SADF was also a conscript army?

Dude, stop posting propaganda and come at us with unbaised sources.

I leave you with a quote

"If defeat for South Africa meant the loss of 31 men, three tanks, five armoured vehicles and three aircraft, then we'd lost. If victory for Fapla and the Cubans meant the loss of 4,600 men, 94 tanks, 100 armoured vehicles, 9 aircraft and other Soviet equiptment valued at more than a billion Rands, then they'd won." - Lt Gen Deon Ferreira

lolzy

AugustineAgain:


"Cuba’s heroic role is the outstanding example of principled anti-imperialist internationalism in the last decades of the twentieth century."

Someone cant see the hallmarks of propaganda

patches689:





And our troops were mainly just as young and inexperienced - or you dont know that the SADF was also a conscript army?

Dude, stop posting propaganda and come at us with unbaised sources.

I leave you with a quote

"If defeat for South Africa meant the loss of 31 men, three tanks, five armoured vehicles and three aircraft, then we'd lost. If victory for Fapla and the Cubans meant the loss of 4,600 men, 94 tanks, 100 armoured vehicles, 9 aircraft and other Soviet equiptment valued at more than a billion Rands, then they'd won." - Lt Gen Deon Ferreira

[size=14pt]All the fake stories you posted above is South African war propaganda that no intelligent person will believe.

Cuba defeated South Africa, FACT.

Also the Cuban military had ZERO war experience while South African military had lots of war experience from World War I, World War II, and Korean war which you SA guys always boast about here claiming you fought against Germany and North Korea plus Soviet Union. Now you want to deny your famous war experience and claim to be mere novices like Cuba. Liar !

Boys and girls of Cuba from sugarcane farms defeated South African military with your Korean war experienced pilots and highly trained Reccees/Special forces/ Elite battalions.



. [/size]

AugustineAgain:


[size=14pt]All the fake stories you posted above is South African war propaganda that no intelligent person will believe.

Cuba defeated South Africa, FACT.

Also the Cuban military had ZERO war experience while South African military had lots of war experience from World War I, World War II, and Korean war which you SA guys always boast about here claiming you fought against Germany and North Korea plus Soviet Union. Now you want to deny your famous war experience and claim to be mere novices like Cuba. Liar !

Boys and girls of Cuba from sugarcane farms defeated South African military with your Korean war experienced pilots and highly trained Reccees/Special forces/ Elite battalions.



. [/size]

First, the avergade SADF soldier was 17-18 years old. Or you dont know what a conscript is?

The SADF as an organization had and has war experience, but the individual soldiers did not.

And the Cuban Army had plenty experience - what is the Cuban Revolution? The Bay of Pigs?

Second, the "claims" have been confirmed by independant 3rd parties

On one side 7000 soldiers of the army of South Africa and 10,000 UNITA combatants , the Angolan rebel Jonas Savimbi.
On the other, 20,000 Angolan government soldiers FAPLA ( People's Armed Forces for the Liberation of Angola) and 5000 Cuban elite soldiers .
http://www.afrique-express.com/archive/AUSTRALE/angola/angolahome.htm

By around April 1988 “the Battle of Cuito Cuanavale” was over with fatal consequences especially on the “aggressor’s” (i.e. FAPLA/Cuban) side: At least one FAPLA brigade (i.e. 47th Brigade) was effectively annihilated; over 4 500 FAPLA soldiers were decimated; 94 of their tanks were destroyed (or captured and handed over to UNITA); 9 MIG jets were shot down. On the SADF/UNITA side: over 1 000 UNITA soldiers died; 31 SADF soldiers killed; 3 tanks destroyed; 11 armored cars and troop carriers lost; 1 Mirage jet shot down by FAPLA/Cuban forces.

Looking at the figures alone, we already see who “won” and who was “defeated”, but there are some more serious questions to be asked: why is it that no detailed FAPLA/Cuban record of the battle is available? [4]If the FAPLA/Cuban forces won the battle, why is it that they did not capture a single SADF soldier during the entire campaign? [5] Why did the FAPLA/Cubans not capture Mavinga and immediately thereafter advance to destroy UNITA’s Jamba HQ? How on earth was it possible that, after MPLA/UNITA negotiations in the early 1990s, Cuito Cuanavale was on the list of UNITA-controlled towns where central administration needed to be re-established?
http://www.nshr.org.na/index.php?module=News&func=display&sid=1351

The second source is from a NAMIBIAN


Fact of the matter is we stopped them dead, knocked out the CnC and Airbase at Quito with long range arty and strolled off the battlefield when we were done.

[size=15pt]0/10. Apply yourself Augubgugug, it took me 15min to destroy your argument - with independent citations[/size]

the south african military repelled and chased away from the battlefield confused http://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2013-03-25-sa-troops-killed-in-central-african-republic-why-mr-president/ lesotho's army withstood,defeated and repel the SANDF as the SANDF scramble around trying to stuff their defeated soldiers into helicopters to escape the massacre http://www.nytimes.com/199u/09/23/world/tiny-neighbor-gives-south-african-army-rude-surprise.html really,i never knew that the SANDF was this pitiful.

EVarn:
the south african military repelled and chased away from the battlefield confused http://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2013-03-25-sa-troops-killed-in-central-african-republic-why-mr-president/ lesotho's army withstood,defeated and repel the SANDF as the SANDF scramble around trying to stuff their defeated soldiers into helicopters to escape the massacre http://www.nytimes.com/199u/09/23/world/tiny-neighbor-gives-south-african-army-rude-surprise.html really,i never knew that the SANDF was this pitiful.

We werent chased away from CAR

We won the war in lesotho and inflicted over a hundred casualties for the loss of less than a dozen men. Last I checked we were in Maseru in a couple of hours and had the whole country under occupation... with only 600 men who were quickly thrown together at a moments notice

Also,

http://www.nytimes.com/199u/09/23/world/tiny-neighbor-gives-south-african-army-rude-surprise.html

- does not have any of your claims in it

Great citation there buddy

patches689:

We werent chased away from CAR
We won the war in lesotho and inflicted over a hundred casualties for the loss of less than a dozen men. Last I checked we were in Maseru in a couple of hours and had the whole country under occupation... with only 600 men who were quickly thrown together at a moments notice
Also,
http://www.nytimes.com/199u/09/23/world/tiny-neighbor-gives-south-african-army-rude-surprise.html
- does not have any of your claims in it
Great citation there buddy

you were chased away from the BATTLEFIELD,i never said that the SANDF was walked out of C.A.R. by rebels(not yet),early this year the south african government sent reinforcement into C.A.R. when it was obvious that the troops are been chicken-chased all over C.A.R. by a ragtag rebel group,as for lesotho,well south africa eventually invaded,conquered and held lesotho(togo can do that!),but it is a shame indeed that SANDF were withstood in the initial assault by an army of cooks.

ActivateKruger:


The fact that that's a socialist report makes it pure communist propaganda bull not even worth reading.

What won't you south-africans blame on?

Now, the link is socialist propaganda.

Accept responsibilities, this is why your military is in a pathetic state today. You think it's by building MRAPS? Everybody builds that, including a good number of African countries.

ActivateKruger:


I thought "gathering dust" was a figure of speech as you once said.

In the meantime Naija parents are crying real tears because the Nigerian army couldn't #BringBackTheGirls

No, it is now literally gathering dust.

The Girls are safe, we've always known where they are, we do not want to go in guns blazing, so as not to kill the girls.

They would soon be released.

patches689:


Mis-quoted, to create the impression that it is worse than it is.

And the SANDF in "critical-decline" is better than the NA which has hit rock bottom

She was very clear, as clear as anyone can be. She wasn't mis-quoted, and since she made that comment, we've seen multiple other reports supporting her "argument".

The N.A is a better trained, better equipped and a better motivated force than the SANDF.

Fact.

patches689:

Yeah, super story.

According to your same parliamentarians in Pretoria, the review is gathering dust in parliament.

The Seriti Commission investigating corruption in the deals that got you frigates with a failed combat suite have said there would be no procurements for the Old people's defence force.

EVarn:
you were chased away from the BATTLEFIELD,i never said that the SANDF was walked out of C.A.R. by rebels(not yet),early this year the south african government sent reinforcement into C.A.R. when it was obvious that the troops are been chicken-chased all over C.A.R. by a ragtag rebel group,as for lesotho,well south africa eventually invaded,conquered and held lesotho(togo can do that!),but it is a shame indeed that SANDF were withstood in the initial assault by an army of cooks.

The SANDF has a long and glorious history of been messed up by peasants, cooks, petty farmers and little kids.

They were humbled in the CAR by a bunch of peasant farmers, begged for mercy from the french and we're blatantly denied.

It's a glorious history they have.

http://www.nytimes.com/1998/09/23/world/tiny-neighbor-gives-south-african-army-rude-surprise.html the lesotho rebels put the SANDF under so much fire,they couldn't ferry their defeated troops back home

Henry240:


The SANDF has a long and glorious history of been messed up by peasants, cooks, petty farmers and little kids.

They were humbled in the CAR by a bunch of peasant farmers, begged for mercy from the french and we're blatantly denied.

It's a glorious history they have.

indeed,and they come here to deny facts and proof.they can only have mouth in C.A.R.,why dont they send battalions into somalia,south sudan and libya,especially libya,as zuma was very vocal in his disagreement with nigeria and NATO during the toppling of muammur ghadaffi's government,probably because ghadaffi sponsored his election to power.*in zuma's voice* "african problems must be resolved using african solutions",how lamer can an arguement get?

Nigerian Chief of Air Staff Air Marshal Adesola Nunayon Amosu called on Minister for Defence Khawaja Muhammad Asif and Minister for Defence Production Rana Tanveer Hussain separately on Monday.

During his meeting, the defence minister said that Pakistan has been fighting successfully the menace of terrorism. “We can extend training to Nigeria to overcome the problem,” he said. “Our armed forces have sacrificed greatly in this regard and it is because of the high standards of training that we have been able to curtail extremism,” he said.

In a meeting with Tanveer Hussain, areas of defence production were generally explored. Pakistan emphasised the need to enhance defence cooperation between the two countries and offered services of its defence industries to Nigeria. During the meeting, the minister stressed that Pakistan produces the top of the line aircraft JF-17 Thunder which can be equaled to some of the best aircrafts in the world.

“Our trainer jets have paved a market due to their best standards and we hope to sell them further to other countries,” he said. The minister also offered tanks, armored personnel carriers, radio telecommunication sets night vision weapon sights and night vision devices to Nigeria.

Both the meetings proved successful as Nigeria showed keen interest in defence trainings, production and joint collaboration. “Our presence at IDEAS 2014 will further help open avenues for further cooperation,” the Nigerian air chief said.

Henry240:


What won't you south-africans blame on?

Now, the link is socialist propaganda.

Accept responsibilities, this is why your military is in a pathetic state today. You think it's by building MRAPS? Everybody builds that, including a good number of African countries.

Nigeria doesnt

You only build armoured cars

Henry240:


Yeah, super story.

According to your same parliamentarians in Pretoria, the review is gathering dust in parliament.

The Seriti Commission investigating corruption in the deals that got you frigates with a failed combat suite have said there would be no procurements for the Old people's defence force.

Where did the Sereti comission say that?

One one witness said that - and has been destroyed on the stand

EVarn:
http://www.nytimes.com/1998/09/23/world/tiny-neighbor-gives-south-african-army-rude-surprise.html the lesotho rebels put the SANDF under so much fire,they couldn't ferry their defeated troops back home

Are you going to back that up with a citation that actually says that?

Henry240:


The SANDF has a long and glorious history of been messed up by peasants, cooks, petty farmers and little kids.

They were humbled in the CAR by a bunch of peasant farmers, begged for mercy from the french and we're blatantly denied.

It's a glorious history they have.

- 200 versus 1000-4000 men
- enemy stopped dead for 13 hours
- 400 casualties inflicted for the loss of 13
- enemy offer a cease fire

Yeah, we totally got messed up.

The irony is that you expect a mere 200 men 1000's of Km from home to stop the whole of Seleka.

But you ignore the fact that your own soldiers have given up town after town to Boko Haram
#CognitiveDissonanace

Every day is a Battle of Bangui for the Nigerian Army

EVarn:
indeed,and they come here to deny facts and proof.they can only have mouth in C.A.R.,why dont they send battalions into somalia,south sudan and libya,especially libya,as zuma was very vocal in his disagreement with nigeria and NATO during the toppling of muammur ghadaffi's government,probably because ghadaffi sponsored his election to power.*in zuma's voice* "african problems must be resolved using african solutions",how lamer can an arguement get?

We have a battalion in the Sudan
And a battalion in combat in the DRC

And we just formed a Rapid a Reaction Battalion Group to deal with any emergencies on the continent

What external deployments do you have?

patches689:


- 200 versus 1000-4000 men
- enemy stopped dead for 13 hours
- 400 casualties inflicted for the loss of 13
- enemy offer a cease fire

Yeah, we totally got messed up.

The irony is that you expect a mere 200 men 1000's of Km from home to stop the whole of Seleka.

But you ignore the fact that your own soldiers have given up town after town to Boko Haram
#CognitiveDissonanace

Every day is a Battle of Bangui for the Nigerian Army

Nope, Boko Haram no longer has capacity to fight everyday because Nigerian army the champions of Africa, has cut off their lifelines with the killing of Shekau II and about 5,000 fighters in 3 months, while NAF has flown thousands of combat and ISTAR sorties wrecking almost all Boko armoured vehicles and heavy weapons.

C.A.R Bangui battle was 250 South Afriacns Vs 1,500 Seleka.

We don't blame you for retreating, but we have to mock you for a whole 50,000 man SANDF being afraid to ever go back and fight Seleka rebels since almost 2 years ago.

Southie nation of perennial cowards
.

agaugust:


Nope, Boko Haram no longer has capacity to fight everyday because Nigerian army the champions of Africa, has cut off their lifelines with the killing of Shekau II and about 5,000 fighters in 3 months, while NAF has flown thousands of combat and ISTAR sorties wrecking almost all Boko armoured vehicles and heavy weapons.

C.A.R Bangui battle was 250 South Afriacns Vs 1,500 Seleka.

We don't blame you for retreating, but we have to mock you for a whole 50,000 man SANDF being afraid to ever go back and fight Seleka rebels since almost 2 years ago.

Southie nation of perennial cowards
.

Lol
If Boko haran was defeated by the NA why did you consent to some of their terms?

And why would we go back and fight Seleka? What is to be gained? Where is the profit? What would or men kill and die for? Pride? Ego?

we don't even have a casus belli so it would be illegal.

We have offered peacekeepers if they are needed by the UN in CAR

If we were afraid of war we would not have formed a battalion combat group specially tasked with interventions in Africa

patches689:


Lol
If Boko haran was defeated by the NA why did you consent to some of their terms?

Only for Chibok girls release, they are holding civilian hostages. Israel consented to terrorists terms and exchanged one Israeli soldier for 1,000 Islamic terrorists.

You and your 50 million Soweto fools have never handed terrorist hostage situation in your nations history, even Kenya has more experience than you do. Lol.

Cowards and servants of Seleka rebels, can't go fight for the salvation of innocent civilians and fellow African brothers and sisters in C.A.R, you left them at the mercy of Seleka rebels.

Southie nation of universal cowards
.

agaugust:


Only for Chibok girls release, they are holding civilian hostages. Israel consented to terrorists terms and exchanged one Israeli soldier for 1,000 Islamic terrorists.

You and your 50 million Soweto fools have never handed terrorist hostage situation in your nations history, even Kenya has more experience than you do. Lol.

Cowards and servants of Seleka rebels, can't go fight for the salvation of innocent civilians and fellow African brothers and sisters in C.A.R, you left them at the mercy of Seleka rebels.

Southie nation of universal cowards
.

First, we have dealt with many hostage situations. The Special Task Force has never lost a hostage

Second, CAR is closer to nigeria than South Africa, why did you leave the people at the mercy of the Seleka rebels? Why did you desert your African brothers and sisters?

Why are there no Nigerians fighting in Congo? Why are no Nigerians peacekeeping in the Sudan? Why has nigeria not formed a rapid response battalion battle group?

So now you admit Nigeria is a nation of cowards!!

Again with reference to CAR, according to the doctrine of sucessfull rebellion we had no casus belli. And, again, we have offered troops if they are needed

patches689:


First, the avergade SADF soldier was 17-18 years old. Or you dont know what a conscript is?

The SADF as an organization had and has war experience, but the individual soldiers did not.

And the Cuban Army had plenty experience - what is the Cuban Revolution? The Bay of Pigs?

Apply yourself Augubgugug, it took me 15min to destroy your argument - with independent citations[/size]

It took you 15min to display enough buffoonery to make a full DVD comedy show.

Stop repeating old stories posted here many times. Cuban army has zero war experience, Cuban revolution was a coup detat by armed civilians against a head of state using rifles in a few streets for some hours, is that war?

Battle of Bay of pigs was a counter coup against Castro by civilians and lasted about 72 hours of rifle shooting by a few dozen men, is that war.

You are a classic example of a South African born nincompoop

Your fake 17 year old South African soldiers that fought Cuban army in Angola are shown in example below with heavy South African beards that even Osama Bin Laden will see as competition

Then compare the Cuban girl soldier below it, it's funny how these Cuban girls defeated a whole South African military

PHOTO 1 : SOUTH AFRICAN ARMY 17 YEAR OLD 'OSAMA' IN ANGOLAN WAR

PHOTO 2 : CUBAN ARMY YOUNG GIRL THAT DEFEATED SOUTH AFRICA IN ANGOLAN WAR

.

EVarn:
you were chased away from the BATTLEFIELD,i never said that the SANDF was walked out of C.A.R. by rebels(not yet),early this year the south african government sent reinforcement into C.A.R. when it was obvious that the troops are been chicken-chased all over C.A.R. by a ragtag rebel group,as for lesotho,well south africa eventually invaded,conquered and held lesotho(togo can do that!),but it is a shame indeed that SANDF were withstood in the initial assault by an army of cooks.

Link which says we were chased?

I have links of Nigerian soldiers running away from Boko Haram... I can help you indulge yourself.