Ubenedictus:
lastly, through out the thread I never said good works preserve salvation, in fact I remember saying the word preserve sounds too much, I said
1.it played a role in sanctification,
2.I explained that eternal life is both inheritance and reward, the person who disagreed later agreed

lastly I have asserted that the unproductive Christian who lives in sin instead will not inherit eternal life.


each of these cases I have expounded with scriptures.

eternal life is a reward for what exactly?
if eternal life is a reward that means Christ died in vain


Ephesians 2:8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:


salvation can either be by grace free from human work or by work as a reward.

Ubenedictus:
no dear, the passage in Hebrew speaks of those who have been enlightened by the word and received the holy spirit, that is exactly the born again.


Grace and living in sin does not coexist, you must chose one. either in grace or in sin. even the born again has the same choice, if he chooses sin then Hebrew 6 apply and the result is hell.

is that what you mean by being bornagain? smh
a man might have been enlightened by the word,the holy spirit should have worked through him it doesn't mean he is bornagain after all Jesus said many will claim they did miracles in his name but he will dismiss them that he never knew them.

Ubenedictus:
no dear, the passage in Hebrew speaks of those who have been enlightened by the word and received the holy spirit, that is exactly the born again.


Grace and living in sin does not coexist, you must chose one. either in grace or in sin. even the born again has the same choice, if he chooses sin then Hebrew 6 apply and the result is hell.

choose between grace and living in sin? smh

Ubenedictus:
oh salvation is without effort, but it certainly isn't preserved without effort, that is why the apostles warned


For this very reason, make every effort to add
to your faith goodness; and to goodness,
knowledge; and to knowledge, self-control; and
to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance,
godliness; and to godliness, mutual affection;
and to mutual affection, love. For if you possess
these qualities in increasing measure, they will
keep you from being ineffective and unproductive

in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

you keep contradicting yourself on so many fronts

you said salvation us without effort but said eternal life isn't free.
preservation is by effort without a single verse to prove it.

nowhere does the bible say good works saves or preserves or sanctifies but you keep shifting goal post.

you don't know what you are saying

Ubenedictus:
lastly, through out the thread I never said good works preserve salvation, in fact I remember saying the word preserve sounds too much, I said
1.it played a role in sanctification,
2.I explained that eternal life is both inheritance and reward, the person who disagreed later agreed

lastly I have asserted that the unproductive Christian who lives in sin instead will not inherit eternal life.


each of these cases I have expounded with scriptures.

lol just say you were wrong

1 Corinthians 3:15
If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

there are many who will be saved without any work to be rewarded
John told you a born again cannot live in sin go and argue with him.

solite3:
lol just say you were wrong

1 Corinthians 3:15
If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

there are many who will be saved without any work to be rewarded
John told you a born again cannot live in sin go and argue with him.

then you haven't been reading my posts, my Second post on the thread clearly shows that the word "preserve" is not my choice word and I only understand it to be true in one sense.

maybe the word preserve let him down, but he does
have a point. Jesus told the parable of the vine and he
told us that the guy without works AKA fruits will be
cut of, which means the branch the continues in good
work is assured of not been cut off.
in that parable works is presented as a test by which
people are cut off or remain in the vine.

secondly, the man whose work is burnt up actually has works, the Bible says they worked, they built using straw and hay, it was imperfect but they worked, they built.


the Bible is very clear, the branch that does not bear fruit will be cut off, even worse the branch that bears bad fruit.


an unprofitable Christian is a hell bound Christian.


Matthew 25:30
And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer
darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of
teeth.


your interpretation of John is wrong again, if John believed the born again doesn't sin he wouldn't have written this

" If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and
will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all
unrighteousness" (1:9)

solite3:
eternal life is a reward for what exactly?
if eternal life is a reward that means Christ died in vain


Ephesians 2:8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:


salvation can either be by grace free from human work or by work as a reward.

then you are ignorant of scriptures.


Romans 2:6-8 New American Bible (Revised
Edition) (NABRE)
who will repay everyone according to his works:
eternal life to those who seek glory, honor,
and immortality through perseverance in good
works, but wrath and fury to those who selfishly
disobey the truth and obey wickedness.


God will repay (reward) people according to their works, eternal life is both inheritance and reward for works.... that is very clear.


you were saved without effort, is by grace without works, but your works is what you will be judged on.


justification is by grace without works, but glorification is not without works. it is clear

solite3:
read to context
Peter said if you possess these qualities in increasing measure it will keep you from being unproductive in knowledge


mathew25:30 is about a different issue entirely.

Matthew 25 is exactly about unprofitability that is the issue and it is very instructive.


Matthew 25:30
And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer
darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of
teeth.


For if you possess
these qualities in increasing measure, they will
keep you from being ineffective and unproductive
in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.


if you don't have those qualities in increasing measure then your knowledge of Christ Jesus is certainly unproductive.

solite3:
I can't remember where the apostle said confirm your salvation with good works is there any place show me?

2 Peter 1

Therefore, my brothers and sisters, make
every effort to confirm your calling and election.
For if you do these things, you will never stumble,
and you will receive a rich welcome into the
eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus
Christ.



read up

solite3:
you keep contradicting yourself on so many fronts

you said salvation us without effort but said eternal life isn't free.
preservation is by effort without a single verse to prove it.

nowhere does the bible say good works saves or preserves or sanctifies but you keep shifting goal post.

you don't know what you are saying

preservation aka sanctification is not without effort..


that is exactly what peter teaches.

2 Peter 1
Therefore, my brothers and sisters, make
every effort to confirm your calling and election.
For if you do these things, you will never stumble,
and you will receive a rich welcome into the
eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus
Christ.


that is what sanctification is about, the Christian works in the grace he as received and so continues in increasing measure so he confirms his calling and election.


lastly I have never shifted the goal post.

throughout the thread I have clearly said good works do NOT save and justification is WITHOUT works. my points were laid out from the beginning.


from the first page I clearly explained in what sense the word preserve can be used, only in the sense that it ensures a continued increase in grace so the Christian does not stumble, does not become unprofitable and is not cut off.

solite3:
is that what you mean by being bornagain? smh
a man might have been enlightened by the word,the holy spirit should have worked through him it doesn't mean he is bornagain after all Jesus said many will claim they did miracles in his name but he will dismiss them that he never knew them.

if the one who is described in these words is not born again

been enlightened, who have
tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy
Spirit, 5 and have tasted the goodness of the word
of God and the powers of the age to come,



then sorry you don't know what it means to be born again.


are these once also not born again.

Ubenedictus:


then you haven't been reading my posts, my Second post on the thread clearly shows that the word "preserve" is not my choice word and I only understand it to be true in one sense.





secondly, the man whose work is burnt up actually has works, the Bible says they worked, they built using straw and hay, it was imperfect but they worked, they built.


the Bible is very clear, the branch that does not bear fruit will be cut off, even worse the branch that bears bad fruit.


an unprofitable Christian is a hell bound Christian.


Matthew 25:30
And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer
darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of
teeth.

a branch that abides in Christian cannot barren.
the fruit that is produce is from the vine not the branch mind you.
a man who is born again is a new creature that is the fruit.


mathew25:30 that unprofitable servants is not born again so i don't know what you are even saying.

Ubenedictus:



then you are ignorant of scriptures.


Romans 2:6-8 New American Bible (Revised
Edition) (NABRE)
who will repay everyone according to his works:
eternal life to those who seek glory, honor,
and immortality through perseverance in good
works, but wrath and fury to those who selfishly
disobey the truth and obey wickedness.


God will repay (reward) people according to their works, eternal life is both inheritance and reward for works.... that is very clear.




you were saved without effort, is by grace without works, but your works is what you will be judged on.


justification is by grace without works, but glorification is not without works. it is clear

you don't know the meaning of being saved.
you think being saved is different from having eternal life? you are clueless on this issue

John 3:15
That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

John 10:28
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.



read this carefully and understand what Paul meant


John 6:26-29 Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled.
Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

who are those who work the work of God
who are those who persevered in good doing
they are the ones who believed on the Lord Jesus although in actual fact they did nothing.

if you are working for eternal life your work would be counted as debt.

Romans 4:4
Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

it means eternal life is not a reward for working.


Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

solite3:
you don't know the meaning of being saved.
you think being saved is different from having eternal life? you are clueless on this issue

John 3:15
That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

John 10:28
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.



read this carefully and understand what Paul meant


John 6:26-29 Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled.
Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

who are those who work the work of God
who are those who persevered in good doing
they are the ones who believed on the Lord Jesus although in actual fact they did nothing.

if you are working for eternal life your work would be counted as debt.

Romans 4:4
Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

it means eternal life is not a reward for working.


Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

sorry, to be saved is to have the life of God in you, you have eternal life but you still haven't made it to heaven, and the unproductive sinful born again will lose that eternal life and heaven.

justification is what is spoken about in that passage, the passage is clear God justifies the ungodly without good works, that he may walk in newness of life, those who are in Christ must work for them the scripture says work out your salvation with fear and trembling


that is why the Bible is clear on the day of judgement God will judge based on works



Romans 2:6-8 New American Bible (Revised
Edition) (NABRE)
who will repay everyone according to his works:
eternal life to those who seek glory, honor,
and immortality through perseverance in good
works, but wrath and fury to those who selfishly
disobey the truth and obey wickedness.

solite3:
a branch that abides in Christian cannot barren.
the fruit that is produce is from the vine not the branch mind you.
a man who is born again is a new creature that is the fruit.


mathew25:30 that unprofitable servants is not born again so i don't know what you are even saying.

you said even if the believer be unfruitful he will make heaven,

Jesus say,

And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer
darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of
teeth.

mexxmoney:

This is wrong teaching. We are saved by grace and preserved by grace. Man should never trust to his works

His teaching is absolutely wrong.

Ubenedictus:
you said even if the believer be unfruitful he will make heaven,

Jesus say,

And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer
darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of
teeth.

yes even if a Christian is not fruitful in good works he will be still be saved but he would have no reward.
Like the story of the prodigal son although he lost his reward as a son but he was still accepted.
Example of a born again who went to heaven without reward was the theif on the cross although he was fruitless in good works but he was saved.


the unprofitable servant was an unsaved man.

solite3:
yes even if a Christian is not fruitful in good works he will be still be saved but he would have no reward.
Like the story of the prodigal son although he lost his reward as a son but he was still accepted.
Example of a born again who went to heaven without reward was the theif on the cross although he was fruitless in good works but he was saved.


the unprofitable servant was an unsaved man.

the prodigal son and the good thief repented and were forgiven and accepted, 1st John says if were confess he will forgive and clean us of unrighteousness. nor was the good thief fruitless in good works, he defended the cause of an innocent man and stopped his mockers.


no sir, the unprofitable servant is not an unsaved man, the unprofitable servant is one who refused to work with the grace he had received.

Matthew 25:26


His master replied, ‘You wicked, lazy servant!
So you knew that I harvest where I have not sown
and gather where I have not scattered seed?
Well then, you should have put my money on
deposit with the bankers, so that when I returned I
would have received it back with interest.
“‘So take the bag of gold from him and give it
to the one who has ten bags. For whoever has
will be given more, and they will have an
abundance. Whoever does not have, even what
they have will be taken from them. And throw
that worthless servant outside, into the darkness,
where there will be weeping and gnashing of
teeth.’


even the goats according to Jesus are those who refused to work.

“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart
from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire
prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was
hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was
thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I
was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I
needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was
sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’



you will be judged based on works, the Bible is clear.


Romans 2:6-8 New American Bible (Revised
Edition) (NABRE)
who will repay everyone according to his works:
eternal life to those who seek glory, honor,
and immortality through perseverance in good
works, but wrath and fury to those who selfishly
disobey the truth and obey wickedness.

Ubenedictus:
the prodigal son and the good thief repented and were forgiven and accepted, 1st John says if were confess he will forgive and clean us of unrighteousness. nor was the good thief fruitless in good works, he defended the cause of an innocent man and stopped his mockers.


no sir, the unprofitable servant is not an unsaved man, the unprofitable servant is one who refused to work with the grace he had received.

Matthew 25:26


His master replied, ‘You wicked, lazy servant!
So you knew that I harvest where I have not sown
and gather where I have not scattered seed?
Well then, you should have put my money on
deposit with the bankers, so that when I returned I
would have received it back with interest.
“‘So take the bag of gold from him and give it
to the one who has ten bags. For whoever has
will be given more, and they will have an
abundance. Whoever does not have, even what
they have will be taken from them. And throw
that worthless servant outside, into the darkness,
where there will be weeping and gnashing of
teeth.’


even the goats according to Jesus are those who refused to work.

“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart
from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire
prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was
hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was
thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I
was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I
needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was
sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’



you will be judged based on works, the Bible is clear.


Romans 2:6-8 New American Bible (Revised
Edition) (NABRE)
who will repay everyone according to his works:
eternal life to those who seek glory, honor,
and immortality through perseverance in good
works, but wrath and fury to those who selfishly
disobey the truth and obey wickedness.

suit yourself

Ubenedictus:
the prodigal son and the good thief repented and were forgiven and accepted, 1st John says if were confess he will forgive and clean us of unrighteousness. nor was the good thief fruitless in good works, he defended the cause of an innocent man and stopped his mockers.


no sir, the unprofitable servant is not an unsaved man, the unprofitable servant is one who refused to work with the grace he had received.

Matthew 25:26


His master replied, ‘You wicked, lazy servant!
So you knew that I harvest where I have not sown
and gather where I have not scattered seed?
Well then, you should have put my money on
deposit with the bankers, so that when I returned I
would have received it back with interest.
“‘So take the bag of gold from him and give it
to the one who has ten bags. For whoever has
will be given more, and they will have an
abundance. Whoever does not have, even what
they have will be taken from them. And throw
that worthless servant outside, into the darkness,
where there will be weeping and gnashing of
teeth.’


even the goats according to Jesus are those who refused to work.

“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart
from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire
prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was
hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was
thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I
was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I
needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was
sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’



you will be judged based on works, the Bible is clear.


Romans 2:6-8 New American Bible (Revised
Edition) (NABRE)
who will repay everyone according to his works:
eternal life to those who seek glory, honor,
and immortality through perseverance in good
works, but wrath and fury to those who selfishly
disobey the truth and obey wickedness.

there was no record of the thief confessing his sin.
@ bold heresy, our good works are filthy rags before God.
what you called good works is filthy before God, the theif on the cross had no works.

Psalms 14:3
They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Psalms 53:3
Every one of them is gone back: they are altogether become filthy; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Isaiah 64:6
But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

before God nobody does good

nobody is getting to heaven by their good works not even Abraham.
doing good works to earn salvation is a sure way to hell you can take that to the bank.

you said the wicked servant was born again making God's word a lie.
God's word indicated that wicked servant was not saved.
Jesus called the unsaved goats but you said Jesus is lying.
it is either you are a sheep or a goat.

Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.


I replied thus post because of others, otherwise I would have just ignored it.