Mr ElRazur. Please be civil in your use of sentences. Not everyone came here on the back of a lorry. You are not the first or be the last to own a uk passport. Loads of us here are also british citizens. No big deal. So stop flaunting it.

Back to the topic of discuss, the European Union (EU) consists of 27 individual countries, which entitles all citizens to live, travel and work in the country of their choice. Citizens can freely travel, work, retire, or just vacate without any problems in any EU country.

The Treaty of Maastricht states that;
Every person holding the nationality of a Member State of the European Union
is, as a result, a citizen of the Union. Citizenship of the Union supplements
national citizenship without replacing it. It is made up of a set of fundamental
rights and obligations enshrined in the EC Treaty among which it is worth
underlining the right not to be discriminated on the basis of the nationality.

Hope i have been able to educate you.

The BNP has everything to do with immigration in the UK. That is their sole agenda and reason why they they received the fourth highest share of votes in the 119 seats they contested in 2005. They currently have 56 councillors, a seat in the London assembly and 2 european MEPs. They may be a minority but they have been growing stronger and stronger every year since they came into mainstream politics.

snowdrops:

Mr ElRazur. Please be civil in your use of sentences. Not everyone came here on the back of a lorry. You are not the first or be the last to own a uk passport. Loads of us here are also british citizens. No big deal. So stop flaunting it.

You lost all credibility in my eyes the moment you lost your marbles over my legitimate concern over how I feel illegal and legal immigration should be done. I do not give a shiiiiittt about British passport, it means shiiiit to me. But when muppets like you talk shiiiit, one is forced to remind you that it is just a piece of paper and nothing more. You brought up issue of challenging my immigration status the minute I talked about tough stance on immigration. Anyone with half a brain can see that.

Back to the topic of discuss, the European Union (EU) consists of 27 individual countries, which entitles all citizens to live, travel and work in the country of their choice. Citizens can freely travel, work, retire, or just vacate without any problems in any EU country.

Again, thanks for nothing. Each nation is allowed to implement controls they see fit. To back up my point, Gordon actually made a reference to the Australia point system this evening. Clearly, if you disagree with me, Gordon brown clearly knows better than you. If you are still doubting me, put your TV on BBC news 24 to hear it yourself. I guess great minds think alike. . . .

The Treaty of Maastricht states that;
Every person holding the nationality of a Member State of the European Union
is, as a result, a citizen of the Union. Citizenship of the Union supplements
national citizenship without replacing it. It is made up of a set of fundamental
rights and obligations enshrined in the EC Treaty among which it is worth
underlining the right not to be discriminated on the basis of the nationality.

Hope i have been able to educate you.

See above. And again, really irrelevant.

The BNP has everything to do with immigration in the UK. That is their sole agenda and reason why they they received the fourth highest share of votes in the 119 seats they contested in 2005. They currently have 56 councillors, a seat in the London assembly and 2 european MEPs. They may be a minority but they have been growing stronger and stronger every year since they came into mainstream politics.

Again, put on your thinking cap. BNP are nothing but a minority. Anyone who knows the history of politics and economics wil tell you that Right wing parties tend to flourish when there is a general hardship. In this case, the global recession. Also, whether they are getting strong means poo. A membership of less than 100k-500k is still nothing compared to other parties. But keep riding on. It is fun to see how the logical ones have become illogical.

I await your next rant.

debosky:

Why not? Should she want unlimited immigration simply because she isn't UK born?

Anyone who doesn't support better controls on immigration is simply living in a fantasy world - whether it be a cap, or restrictions in some other form, you cannot keep pumping 200,000 people into the UK annually forever.

Sky hasn't done anything, the real breaking of the gaffe was on BBC radio, so if anyone did it, it was the good ol BBC.

Sky News broke the news not the BBC, all they did was forward it to BBC 2,

d UK welcomed you and her with open arms but now, u lot slate people who want to come to d uk. its not up to u lot to decide if there should be a cap on immigration, it should be up to councils to say if they can accommodate more people. people come to the Uk and other parts of the world for a better life,

illegal immigrants with no criminal records should be given citizenships and those with criminal records should be deported. i was once a illegal myself, there are atleast a million of them out there working and paying their taxes like normal people, i know plenty of them, they 've got children in schools, i wish them all well,

funny how most people that are overly passionate abt immigration and illegal immigrants were once illegal, thier parents illegal or thier great grandparents slaves. Or just typicallty rascist

what are the illegal immigrants really doing but the jobs the british wont?? england isnt overpopulated, the same number of people coming in are the same as those coming out thats not an issue- so why the hype?? neeeways thats what i think abt it soo long as they aint commitiing crime are working and paying taxes i dont see why they shouldnt have an amnesty- ive seen a woman who can speak not a word of english work soo hard for her family in this country, whilst other women with thier 3 or 4 fatherless kids shop with milk tokens and q outside the post office every monday-kmt people sef

@ ElRazur

There is no point taking issues any further with you. Besides its becoming too petty.

@ ayettymama

There is a strong element of racism in the immigration debate. Talk of the UK becoming overpopulated is mere propaganda. Agreed some parts in the south east may be, but when the south east includes big cities like London its no surprise. Scotland, wales and Northern Ireland are under-populated. What about a huge country like Russia? The xenophobia particularly against blacks have led to murder of foreign students.

I believe illegal immigrants under current laws, who have lived and worked in the uk for a minimum of 14 yrs can apply for settlement as long as they can prove that they dont have a criminal record and have been paying taxes. The UK system despite its flaws still remains one of the fairest in the developed world.

one thing u have to love abt this place!

Ayettymama

It is a common misconception that "immigrants [illegal] are doing the jobs the British won't do."

Before it become fashionable to come here, during the time of my dad, I remember him saying White people do the menial jobs etc. Also, across forums, I have heard people making similar points. Think about it, the job was done before and if for whatever reason or the other, the job will still be done [assuming there is a ban on all things illegal immigrants]

I have my Baby book and photos from the time of my birth, my few days stay in hospital and from my time at my Nanny's etc. The one thing that is obvious is the lack of people of colour. Every one  from the midwife, nurse, ward cleaner all appears to be of white origin. And the irony of it all is that, this is just from the 80s or so. Again, while it is not a scientific evidence, it somehow backs up the notion that the job was done before the influx of immigrants anyway. 

Again to reiterates, I have no problem with anyone coming here provided they have the right papers. And to discuss immigration issues is not in anyway racism. But I can see how people who are racist can use it to their advantage.


@Snowdrops,

The issue of paying tax is one that is again debatable. It is hard lately to secure NI without having a right visa. If these people are here illegally in the first place, how will they pay taxes? Yes there are ways, but the UK economy is still losing, compare to say if they've had the right papers all along. Finally, how many of these illegal immigrants really pay taxes? You will find that it is not a lot when compared to the number of people who the home office will classify as illegal.

You are right though, the UK is a fair nation and one of the many reasons people flock here especially from developing nations. Why don't people go to Germany, Italy, France or Spain, after all, these places are in the EU too? But I guess we have seen how they despise illegal immigrants in each of these nations.

obviously before immigrants began flooding in white people survived

nowadays all sorts of incentives are introduced just to make the 'british' do these jobs

things like SIA and increasing the minimum wage

most will rather sit on benefits than clean- even construction work

u now see soo many black people doing it- govt councils rather hire the polish

if u grew up in certain areas u will also know white people dont work

prob be the only kid in class paying for school dinners

its no misconception its the raw truth

its well known companies hire asians because they belive they work harder

i mean i dont know than for afact but its there

even in white populated areas how many white cleaners do u see??

ayettymama:

obviously before immigrants began flooding in white people survived

nowadays all sorts of incentives are introduced just to make the 'british' do these jobs

things like SIA and increasing the minimum wage

most will rather sit on benefits than clean- even construction work

u now see soo many black people doing it- govt councils rather hire the polish

if u grew up in certain areas u will also know white people dont work

prob be the only kid in class paying for school dinners

its no misconception its the raw truth

its well known companies hire asians because they belive they work harder

i mean i dont know than for afact but its there

even in white populated areas how many white cleaners do u see??

Again I am not so sure about your points. Me I just want to play Ps3 all day today till I collapse or something and I am gonna try and avoid lengthy debate if necessary. Beside you be my pally for Romance nauw.

I think the issue of Minimum wage is more or less to do with adjusting for inflation rates. Minimum wage allows anyone working to have an acceptable standard wage to survive on etc. I am not so sure it is aimed squarely at the brits.

Again I think it is a bit of a misconception to say most white people stay home on benefits. Look at it this way, this is a country where white people are the Majority. If you take the number of people overall on benefit, it is a very tiny minority when compare to the total number of UK population. Having said that, it may be possible the white people make the larger number of those claiming benefit - JSA for example - Well, this is nothing but a reflection that they are the Majority in the population. If we swap the figures around i.e making Black people the majority in the UK and the White people are the minority, I think the reflection of the Benefit figure will show that more Black people are on Benefits than White people because of the shift in population [Just making a point] I hope you understand my point here?

Yes there are perception that people of Asian origin work harder, but then there are other factors to consider, employers like them as some of them can be cheated out of their basic working rights etc. Again, these things are not so simple and please let us not all buy the hype.

I am not saying there aren't lazy white people, but to say most of them are is just a bit of a generalisation. I know Nigerians who do nothing but yahoo yahoo and just sit back and watch sky tv and go to Deptford to eat Island Buka [Some Nigerian resturant popular with yahoo yahoo boys] and drive around in expensive cars. It will be a bit of a generalisation to say most Nigerians here are like this. Not true. I am sure those of us who have contributed in this thread so far are hard working people.

Ayetty, I ain't attacking you, but explaining things I felt may be a bit of generalisation, so don't start getting sensitive like snowdrop you see lol.

no no no no no thats not what i mean- i mean those that have an option- cleaning or workin in mcd's for example wont, theyd rather sit on benefits, no im not making a race debate but it doesnt take a rocket scientist to see, more and more 'legal' people opt for benefits than work, more and more companies prefer to employ the 'foreign' ones

of course im very well aware more black people are in jail and earn benefits and blah blah u dont need to explain love! thats not what im on

im talkin abt the uneducated and unskilled- i remember asking someone who really lives like bianca in eastenders?? u wont cacth a woman like her working, ian will have hired some hot eastern european woman who will work harder and talk less

yes im generalising here but illegal immigrants do actually work hard, u see them everyday doing it, in all honest truth u wont find a typical british person (not just the whites) with that same 'i need to work to look after my family' attitude simply because they dont

even my freind who has 2 kids says u get more money on benefits than working, its simply not worth it

i see u thinkin im attackin whites im not, its not just a whoite thing its prob a british thing, its also the plain brutal truth!

Okay madam I hear you.

On thing though, could "illegal" immigrants be hard working because the system is not designed to cater for them? Hence they are either forced to survive or die of hunger, homelessness etc Plus the psychological pressure from back home where people now look up to them?

My point is that, these things are not as simple as they look sometimes. 


As per benefit system, I am of the belief that it needs re-shaking - something along the lines of what Cameron was talking about. I.e dock benefits of those who can work but refuse to work.

Actually it is, most of them come to work, make money and go back (actually im not sure of that) but thats the general view!

work, look after thier families- back home u get an education so u can get a job (not even a good one) and look after urself and ur family

whats the idea here?? u go to school because u have to, university because u get paid to finish off on benefits cos u dont wanna work!

most of the time elrazur its quite simple- u just have to look arnd u to see!

ayettymama:

funny how most people that are overly passionate abt immigration and illegal immigrants were once illegal, thier parents illegal or thier great grandparents slaves. Or just typicallty rascist

what are the illegal immigrants really doing but the jobs the british wont?? england isnt overpopulated, the same number of people coming in are the same as those coming out thats not an issue- so why the hype?? neeeways thats what i think abt it soo long as they aint commitiing crime are working and paying taxes i dont see why they shouldnt have an amnesty- ive seen a woman who can speak not a word of english work soo hard for her family in this country, whilst other women with thier 3 or 4 fatherless kids shop with milk tokens and q outside the post office every monday-kmt people sef

well said, what i hate most is when the right wing press say illegal immigrants get council house and claim benefits which is so untrue, in my illegal days, all I did was work everyday, from one job to another, I wenT n thr so much. Employment agencies talk advantage of you once they know you are illegal, I was sort of alright, I met very nice employers and a few nasty ones but whom am I to complain. These same right wing scUm bags that complain about illegal immigrants pay thier domestic servants below the minimuM wage. My neigbours are right wing twats but they pay their domestic staff about £5.80 when i tell them its below the minmum wage they fobe me off, my sister is here working illegally. she's paying her taxes, she works in the city in the thr an agency, if u see her, u would think she be britiko, she's not committing any crime neither is she trying to defraud the benefits system,

ElRazur:

Okay madam I hear you.

On thing though, could "illegal" immigrants be hard working because the system is not designed to cater for them? Hence they are either forced to survive or die of hunger, homelessness etc Plus the psychological pressure from back home where people now look up to them?

My point is that, these things are not as simple as they look sometimes.


As per benefit system, I am of the belief that it needs re-shaking - something along the lines of what Cameron was talking about. I.e dock benefits of those who can work but refuse to work.

not all illegal immgrants are homeless, the homeless immgrants you see living rough are those whose asylum or refugee status has been refused as well as those from the European Unions (quite a lot of poles are living rough) i never lived rough when i was illegal neither do i know any illegal living rough.

Cameron should not only get tough on those on welfare benefits, he should get tough on those rich people that employ exepensive accoutants to help them evavade tax, their are quite a lot of them including those who have donated money to his campign as well as Lord Ashcroft of Belize, who happens to be the vice chairman of the his party as well as mulitinational companies like Tesco who make millions but pay as little tax as possible- including the owners of The Daily Telegraph who have endorsed Mr Cameron, they are called the Barclays Brothers they are non-dorms. Phillip Green is another non-dorm based in Monaco, he endorsed Mr Cameron but does not pay full Uk tax,

Hung Fffffucking parliament?


Well according to exit poll.

ElRazur:

Hung Fffffucking parliament? 


Well according to exit poll.

That was expected! Cameron with the support of the Ulster Unionist can actually form a workable minority government. I think the polls underestimate lib dem seats, can't believe they would drop from 2005 figures.

Lib Dem appeared to have made more loss than gain I guess. But The other major parties may need them for a deal eventually.


For all those screaming BNP and how they will take over. . . Erm election results ain't looking too good for them now or is it? Thanks for your "BNP will get you and deport you" blah blah blah. I stand by what I said before, they are nothing and have no threat.

Just in case I didnt make the BNP point clear enough, they were defeated in their own backyard in Barking constituency.

I love the UK public.

Nick Griffin failed dramatically in his bid to gain a Westminster seat this morning when he suffered a resounding defeat in the British National Party’s East London stronghold.

Margaret Hodge, the Labour incumbent, won by a majority of more than 16,000 to deflect the BNP leader’s challenge in what she described as the most important and moral fight of her life.

In a humiliating defeat, Mr Griffin was relegated to third place in Barking, trailing behind the Conservative candidate Simon Marcus. The BNP’s share of the vote dropped by 2 per cent after an extensive campaign to mobilise voters against the threat of the far right.

Ms Hodge, the Culture Minister, achieved a 7 per cent swing, winning more than 24,000 votes and 55 per cent of the vote.


She said: “The message of Barking to the BNP is clear: get out and stay out. You are not wanted here and your vile politics have no place in British democracy. Pack your bags and go.”

She said voters had chosen democratic politics built on fairness over “a fascist politics built on division, prejudice and hatred”.

“We have not just beaten but we have smashed the attempts of extremists.”

The BNP had considered Barking a stronghold after exploiting local concerns about immigration and housing to win 12 seats in the local council in 2006.

However, following a disastrous election campaign, Mr Griffin received 6,620 votes – one third as many as Ms Hodge.

There were indications of a national collapse in the BNP vote after it failed to make headway in its other target seat, Stoke Central.

It also looked likely to lose seats on Barking and Dagenham council, despite beginning the campaign with hopes of gaining a majority.

Mr Griffin blamed high voter turnout for his defeat and said that it was the “last chance for Barking”.

His voice drowned out by booing, he said: “This was the last of London. Within the next five years the indigenous people of London will be a minority in our own capital city. This is a wake-up call, not just for London. This is a wake-up call for the whole of Britain.”

Mr Griffin said he would not resign, despite the crushing defeat. However, elements in his party are certain to demand answers about the disastrous performance.

There was a heavy police presence at the count in Goresbrook Leisure Centre, in Dagenham, as large numbers of BNP supporters turned out to support their leader.

The BNP’s campaign has been was plagued with trouble and infighting. In the first week, Mr Griffin faced an alleged plot by BNP officials to overthrow him. He also told police that a colleague had threatened to kill him after an investigation into the political “conspiracy”.

On Tuesday, the head of the party’s online operation resigned and took the website down with him. Simon Bennett, 41, directed BNP traffic to his personal site, where he had posted a lengthy diatribe against Mr Griffin and other senior figures.

The next day Robert Bailey, the party’s London organiser and Romford candidate, was videoed assaulting an Asian youth who had spat at him.

Frank Maloney, the UKIP candidate, said he would make a complaint about Ms Hodge to the Electoral Commission, claiming she had spoken to voters inside polling booths.

At the same venue, the incumbent Labour MP for Dagenham, Jon Cruddas, faced an anxious wait after a close-run poll with his Tory opponent, Simon Jones.

However, Mr Cruddas, widely tipped as a leadership contender, retained his seat with a majority of 2,000.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article7119069.ece

Hi! all, first Nigerian MP Chika Umunna has won Streatham seat for Labour, (he's mixed race) it was not Kemi Adegoke's day, Duliwich was not a safe Tory seat , wishing Chika Umunna well.

Helan Grant who is half Nigerian has won the Maidstone and The Weald for the Conservatives, she stood for labour last election but swiched to the Tories. I say keep the Nigerian flag flying, we had a Nigeria as a Mayor in Southwark a couple of yrs ago, what next??

Here you go peeps
Happy reading
Coalition's programme for government

http://www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/media/409088/pfg_coalition.pdf

ElRazur:

Just in case I didnt make the BNP point clear enough, they were defeated in their own backyard in Barking constituency.

I love the UK public.

they also lost their 12 seats in the local elections, good on the people of barking for kicking them out, i blame the right wing media for all media hype surrounding the BNP. The right wing media are playing divide and rule with the british public and the ethnic minority, when an ethnic minority commits a crime, they put in on their front page or when a failed asylum seeker or alleged terrorist is allowed to stay in the country, all hell break lose, the right wing media would never report on thousands of ethnic minorities working in A & E serving lives every single minute of every day.

jay bee:

Here you go peeps
Happy reading
Coalition's programme for government

http://www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/media/409088/pfg_coalition.pdf

Nick Clegg is a disgrace, he's a sell out, he will live to regret his decision of forming a coalition with the party for the rich and privileded. The nasty right wing press are not on his side, he's only in it to fill his pockets, he's wage has increased from £64,000 to £140,000 with the use of a chaffer driven car and exclusive use of a country house which he 'ill have to share with Mr Hague. Shame on Mr Clegg.

^^^ I want my vote back to be honest.

ElRazur:

^^^ I want my vote back to be honest.

u'll get another chance to cast another vote in about 2yrs, i do not see this coalition (condem) lasting, the right wing media will make sure it does not work- so they will put the blame on Mr Clegg and Mr Cameron will have a majority, Mr Cameron is nothing but a puddle, he answers to Mr Murdoch, Lord Ascroft and the right wing press and he 'll do as he's told in order to stay in power, as for Mr Clegg, he's just erm, he's just a muppet, he's the opposite of what the Tories stand for, as for Mr Cable wanting to half privatise the Royal Mail, he needs his head examined.

ElRazur:

Lib Dem appeared to have made more loss than gain I guess. But The other major parties may need them for a deal eventually.


For all those screaming BNP and how they will take over. . . Erm election results ain't looking too good for them now or is it? Thanks for your "BNP will get you and deport you" blah blah blah. I stand by what I said before, they are nothing and have no threat.

Lib Dems lost seats because Mr Clegg spent too much time taking about a hung parlialment when he should have bn explaining his manifesto, the right wing media did their best to undermine his party, the Guardian's endorsement came to late and Lib-Dems did not have much money to run their campaign compared with the Tories who spent about £14M, a tenth of what Lib-Dems had.

I'm not sure bout this but Guardian said Cameron may move to repeal the Human Rights Act.
It's just extremely daft to me, it's only two weeks and I'm already going paranoid . . . what next will they attempt to clear off?? Freedom of Information Act??

I hope it's just the press at it again . . . this will be proof of how much power, if any Clegg has in this coalition.

@Elrazur

Come on . . . the immigration question is point-blank . . . you cannot prevent EU citizens from getting into the country.
Did you see Debosky's argument?? He used the fact that the Polands of Europe will get better with joint economic policies.

'Free movement of persons in within the European Union . . . to encourage trade' . . . see the Factortames saga.
Can't you see how Brown always avoids the question by bringing up Australia??
You don't get it, the European Community is one country . . . all you need is an ID and you're through.

Isn't that how Euro-sceptics win votes?? And if there is proof that more of them are coming into the country, the only solution is to repeal the European Communities Act . . . which is practically impossible.

ayettymama:
obviously before immigrants began flooding in white people survived

nowadays all sorts of incentives are introduced just to make the 'british' do these jobs

It's not that easy . . . the world has developed since the 1960s.
In order to catch up with world economy, a strong labour market is extremely necessary.

Yeah, they were surviving before then, but it's obvious that immigration has gained at least a significance of some sort.
I don't support a cap though, I still think there is untapped space in the rest of the UK which is being ignored . . . and it's obvious that the only reason people are paranoid is because of London.

eldee:

I'm not sure bout this but Guardian said Cameron may move to repeal the Human Rights Act.
It's just extremely daft to me, it's only two weeks and I'm already going paranoid . . . what next will they attempt to clear off?? Freedom of Information Act??

I hope it's just the press at it again . . . this will be proof of how much power, if any Clegg has in this coalition.

Mr Clegg has no power in the coalition, he's nothing but a figure head, Mr Cameron is clever and cunny, he 'll throw the kitchen sink @ Mr Clegg when it suits him, Mr Clegg should never have got into bed with the Tories,