tensor777:

Well that is your own opinion. I am not a Westerner but I can boldly say that most Yorubas at the time were nationalists and were fully in support of the efforts of the Gowonian regime to preserve the federation.
More specifically there was a delegation from the Western region that went to Enugu to warn Ojukwu against any attempt at secession.

Katsumoto:


, Murtala and Martins Adamu would have probably organised another coup to get rid of Ogundipe. Afterall, they eventually got rid of Gowon. The problem with the army, then and now, is tribalism. In a mono-ethnic Army, Ogundipe would and should have taken over as the most senior officer.

Afam:

A few reminders

6. Igbos are republicans and they usually do not listen to any particular political leader for any reason whatsoever. But in Ojukwu for once in its history the Igbos have come to respect, cherish and applaud this man for his principled stand in defense of his people even when he risked all his father had considering the fact that his father was the first millionaire in the region and any war would affect his wealth more than any other person but he saw the need to protect and defend his people as more important task when compared to defending his wealth as a lot of our politicians do today.

7. For those that brag about producing the presidents and vice presidents since after the war my questions are

a) Why is that the South East has the lowest poverty index in Nigeria?
b) Why is it that the South East (according to JAMB statistics) leads other regions in enrollment into our higher institutions in spite of the typical "Igbos are traders" mantra?

sjeezy8:


I dont anyone who brags about having a president from their region its only SE'rs who are crying to be president or VP. When Obasanjo became president he didnt do anything for yorubas- IT GOT WORSE and when Buhari was president he didnt do anything for fulanis-hausa same wit yaradua and co.

Infact when a president or vice president emerges from ones region- its as if they are worse off then before.

I am a nationalist
I think its better to vote a SE'r for president or vice on the PDP platform so corruption and elitism can make its way into the East No more Biafra, no more Apga and no more complaints of marginalization.- All regions can be corrupt together and no one can complain about any tribalism.

Katsumoto:

Wouldn't it be better to just have a visionary leader rather than just an incompetent looter? That way, a majority of Nigerians can have a better life. That things have been bad in the last 50 fifty years should not stop us from working for a better tomorrow. You need to get rid of this 'jeun soke' mentality. There is more to life than being the son of a man who is a friend to a looter. Karma is a naughty woman and it always strikes.

tensor777:

I have to say your position on this is arrant nonsense. Ojukwu was the military governor of the Eastern Region and he has to take ultimate responsibility for all the strategic decisions taken by the government in the period leading up to, and including the declaration of the state of Biafra.
Trying to push the matter to the Eastern House of assembly is disengenuous moreso as he tabled the bill for secession before them. to be rubber stamped. Who are these assembly menbers by the way?


As for the issue of the Biafra not starting the  war that again is utter nonsense. Ojukwu started it by declaring the secession. Why is this? Well it is the constitutional duty of all commissioned officers of the Nigerian Armed Forces to protect the territorial integrity of Nigeria. Thus as night follows day Ojukwu as a former officer should have expected his declaration to be followed by the immediate application of military force in order to preserve Nigeria's sovereignity and territorial integrity. It is that simple.

Katsumoto:

Wouldn't it be better to just have a visionary leader rather than just an incompetent looter? That way, a majority of Nigerians can have a better life. That things have been bad in the last 50 fifty years should not stop us from working for a better tomorrow. You need to get rid of this 'jeun soke' mentality. There is more to life than being the son of a man who is a friend to a looter. Karma is a naughty woman and it always strikes.

Onlytruth:

Like I keep saying over and over again, the Igbo are NOT interested in whether SATAN himself is the president of Nigeria. There is no gentleman inside the jungle.
You have to count one before counting two.

Onlytruth:

As long as that SATAN delivers on his promise to us, we will support him. Nigeria is worse than hell.
If IBB allows us to chose our leaders (something Obasanjo denied us) we will vote for him.

Dede1:

I always welcome the idea of locking horns with Katsumoto and tensor777 with Afam,Onlytruth and Eziachi on my team or side.

@Katsumoto

Please Katsumoto can you tell me the reasons why101 BEF either commanded by Majors Chukwuka, Amadi, Onwuatuegwu, Igboba, Nwajei, Okwechime, Nzogwu or Nwawo would have stopped at Ore? I can argue unequivocally that If Lagos had been overrun by 101 BEF there were many Yoruba groups that would have swelled the presence of 101 BEF in Lagos and the rest of western region.

I shall remind you  the before the debacle at Ore, four high-ranking officers of Yoruba extraction had already gone to Gowon demanding that he, Gowon, remove all northern region soldiers of Nigerian army from western region. In addition, Ijebu Ode people had shown every intention to send Gowon and northern region soldiers of Nigerian army packing from Lagos and environs. All these groups simply needed was backing from a force such as 101 BEF.

The capture of Lagos would have negated the factor of having effective and strong Naval force because all the four functional seaports in Nigeria would have been under the control of Biafrans. Nobody can engage in negotiation from the position of weakness. I had to reiterate the fact that element of surprise trumps every strategy during military escalation.

@tensor777

It is rather unfortunate that you have assumed that Ojukwu stated Nigeria-Biafra civil war due to the declaration of Biafra as an independent sovereign state. You have alluded in one of your posts that Nigeria in 1966 was fraught with coups which were unsuccessful at best.The Gowon led coup was completely unsuccessful because the leader of the coup did have complete control of the army in all the regions and was not recognized as either legitimate commander of the Nigerian armed forces or Head of State.

It was clear that at this juncture, Gowon has no legal or military authority to divide Nigeria into 12 states without fully consultation with all the regional governors and, in doing so violated the constitutional authority of eastern region of Nigeria. The creation of 12 states erased the eastern region from the contiguous tarrain of federal republic of Nigeria. In order to remain relevant, the eastern region declared her independence to compliment the actions of Gowon. I think you can agree with me that declaration of independent does not construe declaration of war.

Dede1:

I always welcome the idea of locking horns with Katsumoto and tensor777 with Afam,Onlytruth and Eziachi on my team or side.


@tensor777

It is rather unfortunate that you have assumed that Ojukwu stated Nigeria-Biafra civil war due to the declaration of Biafra as an independent sovereign state. You have alluded in one of your posts that Nigeria in 1966 was fraught with coups which were unsuccessful at best.The Gowon led coup was completely unsuccessful because the leader of the coup did have complete control of the army in all the regions and was not recognized as either legitimate commander of the Nigerian armed forces or Head of State.

It was clear that at this juncture, Gowon has no legal or military authority to divide Nigeria into 12 states without fully consultation with all the regional governors and, in doing so violated the constitutional authority of eastern region of Nigeria. The creation of 12 states erased the eastern region from the contiguous tarrain of federal republic of Nigeria. In order to remain relevant, the eastern region declared her independence to compliment the actions of Gowon. I think you can agree with me that declaration of independent does not construe declaration of war.

Dede1:

I always welcome the idea of locking horns with Katsumoto and tensor777 with Afam,Onlytruth and Eziachi on my team or side.

@Katsumoto

Please Katsumoto can you tell me the reasons why101 BEF either commanded by Majors Chukwuka, Amadi, Onwuatuegwu, Igboba, Nwajei, Okwechime, Nzogwu or Nwawo would have stopped at Ore? I can argue unequivocally that If Lagos had been overrun by 101 BEF there were many Yoruba groups that would have swelled the presence of 101 BEF in Lagos and the rest of western region.

I shall remind you the before the debacle at Ore, four high-ranking officers of Yoruba extraction had already gone to Gowon demanding that he, Gowon, remove all northern region soldiers of Nigerian army from western region. In addition, Ijebu Ode people had shown every intention to send Gowon and northern region soldiers of Nigerian army packing from Lagos and environs. All these groups simply needed was backing from a force such as 101 BEF.

The capture of Lagos would have negated the factor of having effective and strong Naval force because all the four functional seaports in Nigeria would have been under the control of Biafrans. Nobody can engage in negotiation from the position of weakness. I had to reiterate the fact that element of surprise trumps every strategy during military escalation.

tensor777:

The Biafran Expeditionary Force led by Victor Banjo certainly lacked the offensive firepower to be able to take any well fortified town in the Western Region. We are talking here about artillery pieces, main battle tanks and armoured personnel carriers, not to mention around 4 divisions of experienced infantry men.

I am not aware they even had a corps of engineers who would be able build  structures that would be able to overcome the many river obstacles in the region.

Finally, where were the special police units who would be expected to hunt down stragglers and by-passed enemy troops and keep order in the occupied regions. Don't forget that Whenever Hitler's Wehrmacht attacked the SS followed behind. Same holds for the Red Army and the NKVD.

Realistically Ojukwu's main hope in capturing Gowon lay in some sort of surprise attack on Dodan Barracks using paratroopers and attack helicopters. But he did not have these resources at the start of the war.

tensor777:

Well that is your own opinion. I am not a Westerner but I can boldly say that most Yorubas at the time were nationalists and were fully in support of the efforts of the Gowonian regime to preserve the federation.
More specifically there was a delegation from the Western region that went to Enugu to warn Ojukwu against any attempt at secession.

Dede1:

@Katsumoto

You have a very good argument if the fine analogy has the same flavor as it existed in Nigeria. Does it occur to you that in the examples you numerated, the principals were already existing sovereign countries? Gowon, Nigeria and Britain had the same plan against Biafra as the capture of Calabar, Warri, Escravos and Bonny established the supremacy of the Federal Government in Nigerian waters and international waters bordering Nigerian coast. There were no shots fired in those operations except the naval bombardment of Calabar coast lines by NNS Lokoja under Commander Nelsen Soroh.

In 1967 war, for example, Israel had solid intelligent report about imminent coordinated attack by the Arab countries and launched quick surprise pre-emptive airborne counter-attack that wiped out the air forces and air-defense mechanisms including radar and command positions of the Egypt, Jordan and Syria.

If Germany did not take more than it could chew, the surprise attacks (blitzkrieg) with swift formation of motorized forces that caught many European countries in shock and awe had no stopping solution. The Operation Barbarossa, like you have alleged, was not a surprise attack but strategic blunder instigated by Hitler’s personal ego. In the battle of midway, the Americans recorded victory after victory against Japan due to diversionary attacks fuelled by elements of surprises. The same element of surprise got Germans and Panzer divisions wandering what rally hit them at the battle of the bulge.

@tensor777

Gowon was part and parcel of the July 29, 1966 coup in Nigeria. However, M15 operatives in Nigeria, western and northern regions of Nigerian publications of 1967 wanted everybody to believe that Murtula and Martin were the leaders of the coup.

Onlytruth:

Normally, in this type of discourse, one's sectional origin should not matter. However, we are talking about an event triggered by the massive genocide organised against easterners in certain part of Nigeria. The war itself was a culmination of that ; all sections should own up to their roles in the conflict.
It is in the context of the above that I request that you state which section of Nigeria you are from. If you cannot honestly state where you are from, then you have no moral rights to apportion blames to Ojukwu in any way.

Katsumoto:

It does not matter where he comes from. One's state of origin is not required for one's ability to analyse historical events. The only reason you want to know his state of origin is to be able to pigeon hole him and make general statements about his people. That is your typical style.

Afam:

I disagree with this because from what has been happening it seems certain people from certain parts of Nigeria tend to agree with certain things while people from other parts tend to disagree even on the same issues - the reason being that those issues affect the people differently and as such would be interpreted differently.

I am an Igbo man from Enugu state and I believe that is why I may see Ojukwu as a hero based on what he did shortly before and during the war whereas Katsumoto who is not an Igbo man would always disagree with what Ojukwu did or even tend to insult the Igbos based on certain reasons.

What's the difference here? Ethnic group, as simple as that unless we want to play to the gallery.

So, someone who is so strongly opposed to an issue that has every semblance of ethnic undertone as regards the Igbos or Biafra as a whole should be able to tell us where he comes from. Or, do you expect the son of Murtala or Gowon to come here and agree that Ojukwu is a hero? Is that possible?

Katsumoto:

Ok, I agree with most of the above but do you think it is in the best interest of intelligent and dispassionate to attack a poster's tribe because of the views of that poster? For instance, a certain poster may post opinions or information which may be insensitive to Igbo/Biafrans; should Igbo/Biafran people resort to insulting other tribes? I know we have our differences and I know that you do not do this but OnlyTruth is fond of making incendiary remarks which distracts from the main discussion. I am not averse topeople who feel slighted going after someone who makes imbecilic or insensitive but it should be on an individual level rather than insulting a group of people. If you agree with this, then I see nothing wrong in people identifying with a state or ethnic origin.

Afam:

I am sure you know my position on insults. I have never and will never insult any tribe for any reason because it is impossible for a whole tribe to be guilty of any one thing.

I believe insults should be at a personal level that is if we cannot do without it anyway.

I am not in support of anyone insulting a people. However, one fact remains - on issues concerning Igbos or Biafra or even Ojukwu those who resort to insults especially targeted at ethnic groups are those that disagree with the Igbos and many of them rain abuses and wonder why for example Ojukwu is being seen as a hero when his people should see him as a coward.

Put differently, supporting a course or praising someone should not be a reason to insult an ethnic group and if we must stick to the facts you will agree with me that most times the Igbos are at the receiving end of the insults by some people who feel that they are supporting the wrong person.

Prevention they say is better than cure so it is best insults are prevented than trying to manage the fallout of such insults.

Dede1:


@tensor777

Gowon was part and parcel of the July 29, 1966 coup in Nigeria. However, M15 operatives in Nigeria, western and northern regions of Nigerian publications of 1967 wanted everybody to believe that Murtula and Martin were the leaders of the coup.

Katsumoto:

It does not matter where he comes from. One's state of origin is not required for one's ability to analyse historical events. The only reason you want to know his state of origin is to be able to pigeon hole him and make general statements about his people. That is your typical style.

Dede1:

@Katsumoto

You have a very good argument if the fine analogy has the same flavor as it existed in Nigeria. Does it occur to you that in the examples you numerated, the principals were already existing sovereign countries? Gowon, Nigeria and Britain had the same plan against Biafra as the capture of Calabar, Warri, Escravos and Bonny established the supremacy of the Federal Government in Nigerian waters and international waters bordering Nigerian coast. There were no shots fired in those operations except the naval bombardment of Calabar coast lines by NNS Lokoja under Commander Nelsen Soroh.

In 1967 war, for example, Israel had solid intelligent report about imminent coordinated attack by the Arab countries and launched quick surprise pre-emptive airborne counter-attack that wiped out the air forces and air-defense mechanisms including radar and command positions of the Egypt, Jordan and Syria.

If Germany did not take more than it could chew, the surprise attacks (blitzkrieg) with swift formation of motorized forces that caught many European countries in shock and awe had no stopping solution. The Operation Barbarossa, like you have alleged, was not a surprise attack but strategic blunder instigated by Hitler’s personal ego. In the battle of midway, the Americans recorded victory after victory against Japan due to diversionary attacks fuelled by elements of surprises. The same element of surprise got Germans and Panzer divisions wandering what rally hit them at the battle of the bulge.

@tensor777

As of May 6, 1967, Nigeria’s stock of weapons was loaded with tools from WW2 era and mainly dotted with carbines and Enfield MK4s. There were no battle tanks except few RECON (reconnaissance) patrol vehicles. Gen. Jerry Usani (rtd) in a recent interview alluded to the fact that both Nigeria and Biafra had absolutely nothing in terms of type of weapons needed to persecute a fighting war as against the intended police action every ear was told.     

Let me remind you that Lagos or any other city in Nigeria could not boost as military fort. Before the Ore debacle, Lagos was already infiltrated by operatives waiting for the arrival of 101 BEF.

Gowon was part and parcel of the July 29, 1966 coup in Nigeria. However, M15 operatives in Nigeria, western and northern regions of Nigerian publications of 1967 wanted everybody to believe that Murtula and Martin were the leaders of the coup.

cicero:

I would rather celebrate the massob guy (and I am not doing that either) than celebrate Ojukwu. Some people have said elsewhere on this forum that he was selfish in his decision to plunge us into a civil war and I’m beginning to believe them.
Here is my position, Ojukwu was never and will never be an igbo hero.

He started a war that was fought on our soil, every army general avoids that like hell.

The igbos had already made considerable progress that if it was not interrupted by the war, the igbos would be calling the shots in Nigeria now and we would still have the opportunity to leave the Hausas and their problems and go home to Biafra.

He did not form any alliance, a dumb thing to do. Could you imagine for example a Russian warship hovering around the coastal Niger Delta and the Nigerian army and their allies being aware that a warship is watching the back of Biafra?

Did he weigh other options open to him when the igbos were being killed in the north before going for the costliest?

What is one good outcome of the war? Just tell me one

see I used to be like you, singing the ojukwu song especially after he came to our school a long time ago and gave a very inciteful speech that if we had a couple of AK47s we would have started another war.

If this man had only spent  10 minutes to consider the chances of winning or losing the war…

BTW what do you mean by the marginalization of the Igbos by the hausa? Or did you mean to say marginalization of the igbos by the igbos?

udezue:

On the real tho. Ojukwu did what any brave man would have done for his people. He didn't take us to war. We the Eastern people chose to declare ourselves Biafrans because of the callousness of Nigerians and their government. The Eastern Assembly gave the command and Ojukwu as a military governor accepted to lead.