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Stats: 2,550,559 members, 5,877,913 topics. Date: Friday, 25 September 2020 at 11:03 AM
|Re: How Can Man Be Sinless? by Julivas(m): 10:07pm On Mar 15, 2018|
If I got the op correctly, he is trying to say one cannot attain righteousness by one's ability. If this is his submission , yes he is right because in Romans 10 : 4, it says Jesus Christ is our righteousness , but this does not give freedom to be committing sin.
Romans 10 : 4
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believeth.
|Re: How Can Man Be Sinless? by live4dgospel(m): 11:13pm On Mar 15, 2018|
[quote author=solite3 post=65871420][/quote]
Apostle Peter is never a pope, this is simply the designation of Roman Catholic Church. Because Christ promised to build His church on the "rock", they claim that Peter was their first pope. Christianity can never be above the world the reverse will always be the case. I mean Christians will always suffer persecution from this devil dominated world. In the nearest future as I have made known in my other topic, the world will unite and persecute the true Christians, all the heretical Christians will certainly join force with the world to persecute the true saints of Christ. That Roman Catholic Church is powerful and influential in the worldly affairs like politics is a strong indication that it has compromised with the world.
|Re: How Can Man Be Sinless? by Ubenedictus(m): 12:30pm On Mar 16, 2018|
live4dgospel:it is not a book review, those are the works of iraeneus, chapter and books, click the chapter and read. don't lie about the guy, if you want to criticise him do well to quote what he wrote. don't lie about him.
|Re: How Can Man Be Sinless? by Ubenedictus(m): 12:48pm On Mar 16, 2018|
live4dgospel:actually the Pope is simply bishop of Rome and the historical case is clear that Peter was bishop of Rome and established the bishopric there.
now tell me you are joking
|Re: How Can Man Be Sinless? by live4dgospel(m): 12:57pm On Mar 16, 2018|
Ubenedictus:Please can you provide me with those historical cases? I hope you are not gonna give a link to your church archive? Please I'm willing to read it...
|Re: How Can Man Be Sinless? by live4dgospel(m): 1:05pm On Mar 16, 2018|
Ubenedictus:If you would like to read, read my previous comment about the heresy I revealed to you: he said the law is still binding to believers even as they have faith in Jesus Christ. Do you want to give you the chapter where he said that? This is what you should have known if you are the fellow of his belief! However, I will provide you with chapter and read further since you said it's not a book review. I will revisit the site...
|Re: How Can Man Be Sinless? by live4dgospel(m): 2:28pm On Mar 16, 2018|
Ubenedictus:Just as his book is voluminous, so are the heresies. I have lots to say about the book but let me start here in Chapter 16 Book IV "Perfect righteousness was conferred neither by circumcision nor by any other legal ceremonies. The Decalogue, however, was not cancelled by Christ, but is always in force: men were never released from its commandments." This means he took the circumcision literary not knowing the spiritual significance of it. As Paul said in Romans 2:29 ".. and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God." He also maintained that law is still binding the believers, but see what the Scriptures say in Romans 10:4 "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes." and in Galatians 2:22 " "I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain.”
What do you say about the law and righteousness that can lead believers to the Kingdom of God?
In Book II chapter 22 he declared that Christ was more than 50 years before he died, he supported his argument with this, "Your father
Abraham rejoiced to see My day; and he saw it, and was glad," they answered Him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham ?" (John 8:56-5). According to him such a reply as "you are not yet fifty years old" is appropriate to someone who is close to 50 years old or perhaps in his 40s. This is an illogical conclusion, since even for Jesus to see Abraham he must be very very old according to the thought of Pharisees, hence they replied "you are not yet fifty years". So even if they had said "you are not yet 130 years old" It's not even enough age to see Abraham since he existed thousands of years before Christ came. I mean, the statement does not in any way relate to actual age of Jesus Christ but rather it is a statement that shows that Jesus must be very old to see Abraham.
I wish I could create time to read the whole book, but since what he believes is the same as your faith I will continue to reference it to judge your faith as we go on.
|Re: How Can Man Be Sinless? by Ubenedictus(m): 4:47pm On Mar 16, 2018|
live4dgospel:lol, I see you have decided to quote him, let me go direct to that.
|Re: How Can Man Be Sinless? by Ubenedictus(m): 5:50pm On Mar 16, 2018|
it seems you didn't click to read the chapter, this is the chapter
1. Moreover, we learn from the Scripture itself, that God gave
circumcision , not as the completer of righteousness, but as a
sign, that the race of Abraham might continue recognisable.
For it declares: "God said to Abraham , Every male among you
shall be circumcised ; and you shall circumcise the flesh of
your foreskins, as a token of the covenant between Me and
you." Genesis 17:9-11 This same does Ezekiel the prophet say
with regard to the Sabbaths : "Also I gave them My Sabbaths ,
to be a sign between Me and them, that they might know that I
am the Lord, that sanctify them." Ezekiel 20:12 And in Exodus,
God says to Moses : "And you shall observe My Sabbaths ; for it
shall be a sign between Me and you for your generations."
Exodus 21:13 These things, then, were given for a sign; but
the signs were not unsymbolical, that is, neither unmeaning
nor to no purpose, inasmuch as they were given by a wise
Artist; but the circumcision after the flesh typified that after
the Spirit. For "we," says the apostle, "have been circumcised
with the circumcision made without hands." Colossians 2:11
And the prophet declares, "Circumcise the hardness of your
heart." But the Sabbaths taught that we should continue day
by day in God's service. "For we have been counted," says the
Apostle Paul, "all the day long as sheep for the slaughter;"
Romans 8:36 that is, consecrated [to God], and ministering
continually to our faith , and persevering in it, and abstaining
from all avarice , and not acquiring or possessing treasures
upon earth. Matthew 6:19 Moreover, the Sabbath of God
(requietio Dei ), that is, the kingdom, was, as it were, indicated
by created things; in which [kingdom], the man who shall have
persevered in serving God (Deo assistere ) shall, in a state of
rest, partake of God's table.
2. And that man was not justified by these things, but that
they were given as a sign to the people, this fact shows —
that Abraham himself, without circumcision and without
observance of Sabbaths, "believed God , and it was imputed
unto him for righteousness; and he was called the friend of
God ." James 2:23 Then, again, Lot , without circumcision , was
brought out from Sodom , receiving salvation from God . So
also did Noah , pleasing God , although he was uncircumcised,
receive the dimensions [of the ark], of the world of the second
race [of men]. Enoch , too, pleasing God , without circumcision ,
discharged the office of God's legate to the angels although
he was a man, and was translated, and is preserved until now
as a witness of the just judgment of God , because the angels
when they had transgressed fell to the earth for judgment, but
the man who pleased [God] was translated for salvation .
Moreover, all the rest of the multitude of those righteous men
who lived before Abraham, and of those patriarchs who
preceded Moses , were justified independently of the things
above mentioned, and without the law of Moses . As also Moses
himself says to the people in Deuteronomy: "The Lord your God
formed a covenant in Horeb. The Lord formed not this
covenant with your fathers, but for you." Deuteronomy 5:2
3. Why, then, did the Lord not form the covenant for the
fathers? Because "the law was not established for righteous
men." 1 Timothy 1:9 But the righteous fathers had the
meaning of the Decalogue written in their hearts and souls ,
that is, they loved the God who made them, and did no injury to
their neighbour. There was therefore no occasion that they
should be cautioned by prohibitory mandates (correptoriis
literis ), because they had the righteousness of the law in
themselves. But when this righteousness and love to God had
passed into oblivion, and became extinct in Egypt , God did
necessarily, because of His great goodwill to men , reveal
Himself by a voice, and led the people with power out of
Egypt , in order that man might again become the disciple and
follower of God ; and He afflicted those who were disobedient,
that they should not contemn their Creator; and He fed them
with manna , that they might receive food for their souls ( uti
rationalem acciperent escam); as also Moses says in
Deuteronomy: "And fed you with manna , which your fathers
did not know, that you might know that man does not live by
bread alone; but by every word of God proceeding out of His
mouth does man live." Deuteronomy 8:3 And it enjoined love to
God , and taught just dealing towards our neighbour, that we
should neither be unjust nor unworthy of God , who prepares
man for His friendship through the medium of the Decalogue,
and likewise for agreement with his neighbour — matters
which did certainly profit man himself; God , however, standing
in no need of anything from man.
4. And therefore does the Scripture say, "These words the
Lord spoke to all the assembly of the children of Israel in the
mount, and He added no more;" Deuteronomy 5:22 for, as I
have already observed, He stood in need of nothing from
them. And again Moses says: "And now Israel , what does the
Lord your God require of you, but to fear the Lord your God ,
to walk in all His ways, and to love Him, and to serve the Lord
your God with all your heart, and with all your soul?"
Deuteronomy 10:12 Now these things did indeed make man
glorious , by supplying what was wanting to him, namely, the
friendship of God ; but they profited God nothing, for God did
not at all stand in need of man's love . For the glory of God
was wanting to man, which he could obtain in no other way
than by serving God. And therefore Moses says to them again:
"Choose life, that you may live, and your seed, to love the Lord
your God , to hear His voice, to cleave unto Him; for this is
your life, and the length of your days." Deuteronomy 30:19-20
Preparing man for this life, the Lord Himself did speak in His
own person to all alike the words of the Decalogue; and
therefore, in like manner, do they remain permanently with us,
receiving by means of His advent in the flesh, extension and
increase, but not abrogation.
5. The laws of bondage, however, were one by one
promulgated to the people by Moses , suited for their
instruction or for their punishment, as Moses himself
declared: "And the Lord commanded me at that time to teach
you statutes and judgments." Deuteronomy 4:14 These things,
therefore, which were given for bondage, and for a sign to
them, He cancelled by the new covenant of liberty. But He has
increased and widened those laws which are natural, and
noble, and common to all, granting to men largely and without
grudging, by means of adoption, to know God the Father , and
to love Him with the whole heart, and to follow His word
unswervingly, while they abstain not only from evil deeds , but
even from the desire after them. But He has also increased
the feeling of reverence; for sons should have more
veneration than slaves, and greater love for their father. And
therefore the Lord says, "As to every idle word that men have
spoken, they shall render an account for it in the day of
judgment." Matthew 12:36 And, "he who has looked upon a
woman to lust after her, has committed adultery with her
already in his heart;" Matthew 5:28 and, "he that is angry with
his brother without a cause , shall be in danger of the
judgment." Matthew 5:22 [All this is declared,] that we may
know that we shall give account to God not of deeds only, as
slaves, but even of words and thoughts, as those who have
truly received the power of liberty, in which [condition] a man
is more severely tested, whether he will reverence, and fear ,
and love the Lord. And for this reason Peter says "that we
have not liberty as a cloak of maliciousness," 1 Peter 2:16
but as the means of testing and evidencing faith.
do you think the circumcision of foreskin in the old testament made people righteous?
do you think Christians are now free to kill ,steal, serve idol dishonor parents etc or does the new Convenant teach against those sins in the old?
|Re: How Can Man Be Sinless? by live4dgospel(m): 5:50pm On Mar 16, 2018|
Ubenedictus:OK, I'm waiting ...
|Re: How Can Man Be Sinless? by Ubenedictus(m): 6:07pm On Mar 16, 2018|
chapter 22 again you got it wrong,
he was rebuking some heretics who among other thing claimed that Jesus died when he was 30 years old in other to make some weird point about aeons.
Ignatius held that Jesus was past 30 and less than 50
let me quote him,
He did not
therefore preach only for one year, nor did He suffer in the
twelfth month of the year. For the period included between the
thirtieth and the fiftieth year can never be regarded as one
year, unless indeed, among their Æons , there be so long years
assigned to those who sit in their ranks with Bythus in the
Pleroma; of which beings Homer the poet, too, has spoken,
doubtless being inspired by the Mother of their [system of]
|Re: How Can Man Be Sinless? by Nobody: 7:05pm On Mar 16, 2018|
live4dgospel:you are right. In fact there is a story about one former Jesuit priest who exposed Roman catholism as a pagan cult and that she was establish to replace Christianity.
|Re: How Can Man Be Sinless? by Nobody: 7:05pm On Mar 16, 2018|
sanctification and justification are like husband and wife though one in Union, yet different in being none is ever justified without being sanctified...
sanctification is incremental i.e we grow in sanctification although we are never perfect on Earth, yet we keep on growing...
|Re: How Can Man Be Sinless? by Nobody: 7:07pm On Mar 16, 2018|
people love the doctrine of justification. .. but sanctification? they never want hear .. they think heb 12:14 is done away with
|Re: How Can Man Be Sinless? by Nobody: 8:24pm On Mar 16, 2018|
Ferisidowu:yea sanctification is continuous work of Holy Spirit in the believer inside while the believer shows his co operation by carrying it out externally. They don't want to hear because they don't know what salvation is. Just like saying you want to see the doctor but reject his pills.
|Re: How Can Man Be Sinless? by Nobody: 8:57pm On Mar 16, 2018|
exactly,,, I don't know why modern so called #enligtened Christians hate sanctification and holiness.... they forgot that even Abraham was a sanctified man....
modern Christians love shouting.. righteousness but holiness!? no way... may God help us Amen...
you read aw pink?
|Re: How Can Man Be Sinless? by live4dgospel(m): 9:51pm On Mar 16, 2018|
Ubenedictus:Maybe I have problem understanding the grammar there. But this is what I saw:
Book II chapter 22 "The thirty aeons are not typified by the fact that Christ was baptized in his thirtieth year: he did not suffer in the twelfth month after his baptism, but was more than fifty years old when he died"
furthermore he also said this:
"6. But, besides this, those very Jews who then disputed with the Lord Jesus Christ have most clearly indicated the same thing. For when the Lord said to them, "Your father
Abraham rejoiced to see My day; and he saw it, and was glad," they answered Him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham ?" John 8:56-57 Now, such language is fittingly applied to one who has already passed the age of forty, without having as yet reached his fiftieth year, yet is not far from this latter period. But to one who is only thirty years old it would unquestionably be said, "You are not yet forty years old.""
As far I'm concerned he said Christ was more than 50 yrs before he died unless if I don't understand well, he accepted that Christ was baptized at about 30 years old, but he held that He didn't die one year later but died when he was above 50 years. However, Christ died at the age of 33.
|Re: How Can Man Be Sinless? by live4dgospel(m): 9:11pm On Mar 17, 2018|
Initially I thought I had problem understanding the grammar (whichever language it was translated from, I know those who did the translation, did it according to his original words so it can never be their fault), but upon closer look I came to understand that your father Ignatius really fulfilled this Scripture: "For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept, Line upon line, line upon line, Here a little, there a little. For with stammering lips and another tongue. He will speak to this people."(Isaiah 28:10-11) However I was able to grab this message: 'Believers must obey the law, and the force of the law is still binding to them' In order words, if they fail in the law they will end up in hell! I hope you share the same faith with him.
Nothing made the people absolutely righteous in Old Testament, neither circumcision nor sacrificial system was able to do that. As it is written "For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second."(Hebrews 8:7) Only through faith was God able to accept the ones who believed His words like Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob David etc. The Circumcision and sacrificial system are all the prefigurations(spiritual significance) of the New Covenant.
The Circumcision was given to Abraham, the Law and the Sacrificial system were given to Moses. Now, Noah lived before Abraham and Moses, what did the Scriptures say about Noah? He was a righteous man! What then made him righteous? Of course, Faith in the word of God! What about Abraham, did he meet the Law of Moses? No! But he was made righteous by the same faith, as it is written "Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him for righteousness"(Genesis 15:6)
As you can see, even before the Commandment of Circumcision was given to Abraham (Genesis 17:10-12), Abraham has already be declared righteous!
Now listen well to the answer to your second question and my new question:
In a nutshell you asked "are we free" to disobey the law of Moses. There is nothing like 'free' whatever the word mean to you, humans commit sins because they cannot help themselves. They were conceived in sins and they inherited the 12 kinds of sins from Adam. You probably do not understand the law well, according to the law, if you lust after a woman in the street you are not only guilty of fornication but of murder, idol worship, theft etc (James 2:10). So the answer is we are not commanded to disobey the law but to obey it, but however we cannot perfectly obey the law because only by perfect obedience can we be made righteous through the law. Has anyone be able to obey perfectly? From your Popes, to Priests, Monks, Nuns etc? In this New Covenant are we righteous by obeying the law of God or by faith alone? I mean must we obey the law to be able to enter the kingdom of God? I think it's a direct question that requires direct answer.
|Re: How Can Man Be Sinless? by Thegospelman(m): 3:10pm On Apr 07, 2018|
live4dgospel:I think he is now on the run, let's wait for him to do thorough search of the Scriptures. Someone once said that the problem with the mainstream Christianity is that there are many blind believers. They believe things not because they have found them to be true but because majority accept them or their churches teach such. I think Roman Catholic church is the reservoir of such blind followers. They were fed from infancy to believe in certain doctrines and reject others as heresies. When I go into argument with them I found out that always go blank before the Word of God. Conclusively they value their church teachings more than the Word of God.
|Re: How Can Man Be Sinless? by live4dgospel(m): 1:22am On Apr 08, 2018|
Thegospelman:You are right bro!
|Re: How Can Man Be Sinless? by live4dgospel(m): 6:25pm On Apr 11, 2018|
Thegospelman:That's a perfect description of mainstream Christianity!
|Re: How Can Man Be Sinless? by estheragha: 6:15pm On Jun 20, 2018|
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|Re: How Can Man Be Sinless? by live4dgospel(m): 4:14pm On Sep 08, 2018|
|Re: How Can Man Be Sinless? by Ubenedictus(m): 3:08pm On Sep 13, 2018|
live4dgospel:funny enough your submission agrees with Ireneus you seem to be criticising.
no one can perfectly obey the law, that is why we have Jesus , the power of his death and the new life in the spirit, he who lives according to the spirit will fulfill the righteous demands of the law, he who live according to the flesh will certainly die.
we are justified by grace through faith so that we may live by the spirit. and if we live by the spirit we will fulfill the righteous demands of the law.
|Re: How Can Man Be Sinless? by live4dgospel(m): 8:12pm On Sep 27, 2018|
Ubenedictus:Both you and your father Ireneus don't know how the righteous demands of the law was fulfilled. You just believe ignorantly like the five foolish virgins.
|Re: How Can Man Be Sinless? by live4dgospel(m): 3:38pm On Sep 28, 2018|
We Must First Know about Our Sins to Be Redeemed
|Re: How Can Man Be Sinless? by Ubenedictus(m): 1:36pm On Oct 02, 2018|
live4dgospel:Oya clap 4 urself, u sabi all things
|Re: How Can Man Be Sinless? by live4dgospel(m): 10:07pm On Oct 06, 2018|
The Righteousness of God
That is Revealed in the
|Re: How Can Man Be Sinless? by live4dgospel(m): 10:08pm On Oct 06, 2018|
Ubenedictus:Read this: http://www.bjnewlife.org/english/bstudy/sermons_13.php
|Re: How Can Man Be Sinless? by live4dgospel(m): 11:37am On Oct 07, 2018|
We Must First Know about
Our Sins to Be Redeemed
|Re: How Can Man Be Sinless? by live4dgospel(m): 12:28pm On Oct 17, 2018|
If We Do Things by the Law, Can It Save Us?
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