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How Can Man Be Sinless? - Religion (4) - Nairaland

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If Mary Was Sinless, Why Was She Unclean And Had To Offer A Sacrifice For Sin? / Are Babies Born Sinners Or Sinless? / No Anambra Man Would Let An Enugu Man Be President” – Rev Fr. Mbaka (2) (3) (4)

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Re: How Can Man Be Sinless? by live4dgospel(m): 10:21am On Mar 04, 2018
Thegospelman:

Brother note that we don't have history in our hand but the Word of God. So don't waste your time on the things that we may not be able to independently verify. Let's move forward in spreading the gospel of water and the Spirit to the whole world. This is the only gospel of salvation everyone must hear. Those who hear the gospel but despite knowing it still reject it deserve nothing but eternal hell.
I well understand you brother
Re: How Can Man Be Sinless? by Ubenedictus(m): 7:42pm On Mar 04, 2018
live4dgospel:

You are funny! What's the Inquisition? A group of cardinals presiding over the ruling and passing judgement that so so person has been found guilty of heresy and should be punished. If they handed over the killings to the state, what's the difference? How can a state interfere in Christian faith if it has not befome part of the church, and this is something you continued to deny that Emperor Constantine did not make Roman Catholic a state religion, on this you defended yourself with "civil unrest"! For instance in the case of Galileo, who believed in heliocentric theory, he was still termed a heretic and was put into house arrest till his death. How did he cause civil unrest with his scientific knowledge?

This is a case of Giordano Bruno from wiki


Starting in 1593, Bruno was tried for heresy
by the Roman Inquisition on charges of
denial of several core Catholic doctrines,
including eternal damnation , the Trinity ,
the divinity of Christ, the virginity of Mary,
and transubstantiation . Bruno's pantheism
was also a matter of grave concern, [4] as
was his teaching of the transmigration of
the soul ( reincarnation ). The Inquisition
found him guilty, and he was burned at
the stake in Rome's Campo de' Fiori in
1600. After his death, he gained
considerable fame, being particularly
celebrated by 19th- and early 20th-century
commentators who regarded him as a
martyr for science , [5] although historians
have debated the extent to which his
heresy trial was a response to his
astronomical views or to other aspects of
his philosophy and theology. [6][7][8][9][10]
Bruno's case is still considered a landmark
in the history of free thought and the
emerging sciences.[11][12][13]



Cornelio Da Montalcino was a Franciscan
friar who had embraced Judaism , and was
burned alive on the Campo dei Fiori in
Rome , Italy , in 1554.



This is the case of Jacob Palaeologus


Jacob Palaeologus, born Giacomo da Chio
(c. 1520 – March 23, 1585) was a Dominican
friar who renounced his religious vows and
became an antitrinitarian theologian. An
indefatigable polemicist against both
Calvinism and Papal Power , Palaeologus
cultivated a wide range of high-placed
contacts and correspondents in the
imperial, royal, and aristocratic households
in Eastern Europe and the Ottoman
Empire ; [1] while formulating and
propagating a radically heterodox version of
Christianity, in which Jesus Christ was not
to be invoked in worship, and where
purported irreconcilable differences
between Christianity, Islam, and Judaism
were rejected as spurious fabrications. He
was continually pursued by his many
enemies, repeatedly escaping through his
many covert supporters.
Palaeologus played an active role in the
high politics of European religion and
diplomacy over a period of twenty years
before he lost imperial favour; and having
been extradited to the Papal States , was
executed for heresy by the Roman
Inquisition .


This is the case of Aonio Paleario

In 1542 the Inquisition made his tract Della
Pienezza, sufficienza, et satisfazione della
passione di Christo , or Libellus de morte
Christi (The Benefit of Christ's Death), the
basis of a charge of heresy, from which,
however, he successfully defended himself.
In Siena he wrote his Actio in pontifices
romanos et eorum asseclas , a vigorous
indictment, in twenty testimonia, against
what he now believed to be the
fundamental error of the Roman Church in
subordinating Scripture to tradition, as well
as against various particular doctrines,
such as that of purgatory; it was not,
however, printed until after his death
(Leipzig, 1606). [2]
In 1546 he accepted a professorial chair at
Lucca, which he exchanged in 1555 for that
of Greek and Latin literature at Milan .
Here about 1566 his enemies renewed their
activity, and in 1567 he was formally
accused by Fra Angelo , the inquisitor of
Milan. He was tried at Rome, condemned
to death in October 1569, and executed in
July 1570. [2]

This is the case of Domenico Scandella


Domenico Scandella (1532–1599), also
known as Menocchio, was a miller from
Montereale , Italy , who in the 16th century
was tried by the Inquisition for his
unorthodox religious views, and burnt at
the stake for heresy in 1599. His life and
beliefs are known from the Inquisition
records, and has been the subject of the
book The Cheese and the Worms by Carlo
Ginzburg .[1][2][3][4]
Biography
His parents were Zuane and Menega. He
lived most of his life in Montereale, except
for two years when he was banished from
the town for brawling.
He had learned to read and read a number
of contemporary works on religion and
history. From these, he developed his
religious views that departed substantially
from Catholic orthodoxy of the time.
He was first tried for heresy in 1583, and
abjured his statements in 1584, but spent
another 20 months in prison in Concordia.
Released in 1586, he claimed to have
reformed. He continued to be in house
arrest and had to wear a sign of a burning
cross on his garments as a visible sign of
his crimes. In 1598, he was arrested again
as a lapsed heretic , having continued to
propagate his beliefs. In 1599, he was
declared a heresiarch and was executed by
burning.
During his trial, he argued that the only sin
was to harm one's neighbor and that to
blaspheme caused no harm to anyone but
the blasphemer. He went so far as to say
that Jesus was born of man and Mary was
not a virgin, that the Pope had no power
given to him from God but simply
exemplified the qualities of a good man,
and that Christ had not died to "redeem
humanity ".[5]


This is the case of Pomponio Algerio


Pomponio Algerio (1531 – 22 August 1556)
was an Italian religious martyr.
Algerio was born in Nola, and was a civil
law student at the University of Padua ,
where his Lutheran theological beliefs
attracted the attention of the Roman
Inquisition . [1] At his trial, he wore his
academic hat and gown to remind the
tribunal that, as a student, he had the right
to freely express his ideas. From the
transcript of Pomponio Algerio at his trial:
"I say that the Church deviates from the
truth in so far as it says that a man
could not do anything in any way good
on his own, since nothing praiseworthy
can proceed from our corrupt infected
nature except to the extent that the lord
God gives us his grace... the Roman
Catholic Church is a particular Church
and no Christian should restrict himself
to any particular Church. This Church
deviates in many things from truth."
After refusing to conform to Church
doctrine, he was sentenced to prison and
asked to reconsider his Lutheran beliefs.
After a year behind bars, he still refused to
reconsider. Because Venetian authorities
would not consent to an execution, Pope
Paul IV sent officials to extradite Pomponio
to Rome. In Rome, on 21 August 1555, a
monk from the brotherhood of St John the
Beheaded visited Pomponio in his cell
urging him to repent. If he repented, he
would be strangled before burning. The 24-
year-old student refused.
One year later, on 22 August 1556, he was
executed by civil authorities in the Piazza
Navona, Rome . Maintaining his composure
while he was boiled in oil, he stayed alive
for 15 minutes before dying.


These are just the most outstanding figures who fell victim of the Roman Inquisition, of course there are other thousands if not million cases . Even though I don't side with them on all their views, my message is clear: They were killed by the Roman Inquisition not because they caused civil unrest but because they held different views from that of the Roman Catholic Church.


you just wish to broadcast your ignorance, Constantine didn't make Christianity a state religion, Theodosius was the one who did that.

at least those guys you mentioned were tried and found guilty by a competent court not by a mob which would have been their lot if not for the inquisition
Re: How Can Man Be Sinless? by Nobody: 7:44pm On Mar 04, 2018
bloodofthelamb:


If the said someone is a righteous man in Christ. Someone who has accepted the ever blazing righteousness of GOD and sins before his death is on his way to heaven.

Let me use myself as an example here... When i had the gospel of JESUS and responded positively to His works for me. God gave me a brand new nature that is righteous and always desires righteousness.

So now, if i mistakenly tell a lie or steal. My actions will not mean that i am now a sinner. I will be living a fake life which is opposite my nature in CHRIST. I am more than convinced that a new breed in JESUS cannot continue and derive pleasure in sin.

For, righteousness drives and leads him from within.

Well said brother.
You're blessed.
Our nature doesn't change. We are still righteous in Christ.
Re: How Can Man Be Sinless? by bloodofthelamb(m): 8:59pm On Mar 04, 2018
Junia:

Well said brother. You're blessed. Our nature doesn't change. We are still righteous in Christ.
Yes brother, all thanks to the grace of God and His gift of righteousness.
Re: How Can Man Be Sinless? by live4dgospel(m): 9:52pm On Mar 04, 2018
Ubenedictus:



you just wish to broadcast your ignorance, Constantine didn't make Christianity a state religion, Theodosius was the one who did that.

at least those guys you mentioned were tried and found guilty by a competent court not by a mob which would have been their lot if not for the inquisition

Just be quoting me well anywhere you go, I repeat Emperor Constantine made "Roman Catholic" a state religion I never say Christianity! Are you now rejecting the quotes from Wikipedia, remember you have been quoting from it. Because it's now against you. Was it not made clear from the quotations that those guys were tried by Roman Inquisition and executed by them? I will continue to hit your head until you learn how to make an unbiased research.
Here is your previous comment "the inquisition it self was created to stem
civil unrest and provide a just system, it
began in the 12 century and that is true, its
aim isn't to stop people from reading the
Bible but to make sure the state didn't punish
innocent people for crimes they weren't
guilty of, you can read that up here."


Remember you deceitfully chose to use the word Inquisition instead of Roman Inquisition (unless you mean the same thing). There were of course Inquisitions before 15th century, as i have said earlier the "Roman Inquisition" was a third variety!

A third variety of the Inquisition was the
Roman Inquisition. Alarmed by the spread of
Protestantism and especially by its penetration
into Italy, Pope Paul III in 1542 established in
Rome the Congregation of the Inquisition.
This institution was al so known as the
Roman Inquisition and the Holy Office. Six
cardinals including Carafa constituted the
original inquisition whose powers extended to
the whole Church. The "Holy Office" was
really a new institution related to the
Medieval Inquisition only by vague
precedents. More free from episcopal control
than its predecessor, it also conceived of its
function differently. Some saw its
establishment as an attempt to counter-
balance the severe Spanish Inquisition at a
time when much of Italy was under Spanish
rule. Whereas the medieval Inquisition had
focused on popular misconceptions which
resulted in the disturbance of public order,
the Holy Office was concerned with orthodoxy
of a more academic nature, especially as it
appeared in the writings of theologians. In its
first twelve years, the activities of the Roman
Inquisition were relatively modest and were
restricted almost exclusively to Italy. Cardinal
Carafa became Pope Paul IV in 1555 and
immediately urged a vigorous pursuit of
"suspects." His snare did not exclude bishops
or even cardinals of the Church. Pope Paul IV
carged the congregation to draw up a list of
books which he felt offended faith or morals.
This resulted in the first Index of Forbidden
Books (1559). Although succeeding popes
tempered the zeal of the Roman Inquisition,
many viewed the institution as the cutomary
instrument of papal government used in the
regulation of Church order. This was the
institution that would later put Galileo on
trial."

Excerpts from galileo.rice.edu/lib/student_work/trial96/loftis/overview.html

But Here is also what Wikipedia has to say

The Roman Inquisition began in 1542 as
part of the Catholic Church's Counter-
Reformation against the spread of
Protestantism, but it represented a less
harsh affair than the previously established
Spanish Inquisition. [3] In 1588, [4] Pope
Sixtus V established 15 congregations of the
Roman Curia of which the Supreme Sacred
Congregation of the Roman and Universal
Inquisition was one. In 1908, the
congregation was renamed the Supreme
Sacred Congregation of the Holy Office and
in 1965 it was renamed again and is now
known as the Congregation for the
Doctrine of the Faith .
While the Roman Inquisition was originally
designed to combat the spread of
Protestantism in Italy, the institution
outlived that original purpose and the
system of tribunals lasted until the mid
18th century, when pre-unification Italian
states began to suppress the local
inquisitions, effectively eliminating the
power of the church to prosecute heretical
crimes."


The Roman Inquisition , formally the
Supreme Sacred Congregation of the Roman
and Universal Inquisition , was a system of
tribunals developed by the Holy See of the
Roman Catholic Church, during the second
half of the 16th century, responsible for
prosecuting individuals accused of a wide
array of crimes relating to religious
doctrine or alternate religious doctrine or
alternate religious beliefs. In the period
after the Medieval Inquisition , it was one
of three different manifestations of the
wider Catholic Inquisition along with the
Spanish Inquisition and Portuguese
Inquisition .
Objectives
Like other iterations of the Inquisition, the
Roman Inquisition was responsible for
prosecuting individuals accused of
committing offenses relating to heresy,
including Protestantism , sorcery ,
immorality , blasphemy , Judaizing and
witchcraft, as well as for censorship of
printed literature. After 1567, with the
execution of Pietro Carnesecchi, an
allegedly leading heretic, the Holy Office
moved to broaden concerns beyond that of
theological matters, such as love magic,
witchcraft, superstitions, and cultural
morality. However, the treatment was more
disciplinary than punitive. [1] The tribunals
of the Roman Inquisition covered most of
the Italian peninsula as well as Malta and
also existed in isolated pockets of papal
jurisdiction in other parts of Europe ,
including Avignon in France . The Roman
Inquisition, though, was considerably more
bureaucratic and focussed on pre-emptive
control in addition to the reactive judicial
prosecution experienced under other
iterations. [2]"
Re: How Can Man Be Sinless? by Ubenedictus(m): 5:16pm On Mar 05, 2018
live4dgospel:

Just be quoting me well anywhere you go, I repeat Emperor Constantine made "Roman Catholic" a state religion I never say Christianity! Are you now rejecting the quotes from Wikipedia, remember you have been quoting from it. Because it's now against you. Was it not made clear from the quotations that those guys were tried by Roman Inquisition and executed by them? I will continue to hit your head until you learn how to make an unbiased research.
Here is your previous comment "the inquisition it self was created to stem
civil unrest and provide a just system, it
began in the 12 century and that is true, its
aim isn't to stop people from reading the
Bible but to make sure the state didn't punish
innocent people for crimes they weren't
guilty of, you can read that up here."


Remember you deceitfully chose to use the word Inquisition instead of Roman Inquisition (unless you mean the same thing). There were of course Inquisitions before 15th century, as i have said earlier the "Roman Inquisition" was a third variety!

A third variety of the Inquisition was the
Roman Inquisition. Alarmed by the spread of
Protestantism and especially by its penetration
into Italy, Pope Paul III in 1542 established in
Rome the Congregation of the Inquisition.
This institution was al so known as the
Roman Inquisition and the Holy Office. Six
cardinals including Carafa constituted the
original inquisition whose powers extended to
the whole Church. The "Holy Office" was
really a new institution related to the
Medieval Inquisition only by vague
precedents. More free from episcopal control
than its predecessor, it also conceived of its
function differently. Some saw its
establishment as an attempt to counter-
balance the severe Spanish Inquisition at a
time when much of Italy was under Spanish
rule. Whereas the medieval Inquisition had
focused on popular misconceptions which
resulted in the disturbance of public order,
the Holy Office was concerned with orthodoxy
of a more academic nature, especially as it
appeared in the writings of theologians. In its
first twelve years, the activities of the Roman
Inquisition were relatively modest and were
restricted almost exclusively to Italy. Cardinal
Carafa became Pope Paul IV in 1555 and
immediately urged a vigorous pursuit of
"suspects." His snare did not exclude bishops
or even cardinals of the Church. Pope Paul IV
carged the congregation to draw up a list of
books which he felt offended faith or morals.
This resulted in the first Index of Forbidden
Books (1559). Although succeeding popes
tempered the zeal of the Roman Inquisition,
many viewed the institution as the cutomary
instrument of papal government used in the
regulation of Church order. This was the
institution that would later put Galileo on
trial."

Excerpts from galileo.rice.edu/lib/student_work/trial96/loftis/overview.html

But Here is also what Wikipedia has to say

The Roman Inquisition began in 1542 as
part of the Catholic Church's Counter-
Reformation against the spread of
Protestantism, but it represented a less
harsh affair than the previously established
Spanish Inquisition. [3] In 1588, [4] Pope
Sixtus V established 15 congregations of the
Roman Curia of which the Supreme Sacred
Congregation of the Roman and Universal
Inquisition was one. In 1908, the
congregation was renamed the Supreme
Sacred Congregation of the Holy Office and
in 1965 it was renamed again and is now
known as the Congregation for the
Doctrine of the Faith .
While the Roman Inquisition was originally
designed to combat the spread of
Protestantism in Italy, the institution
outlived that original purpose and the
system of tribunals lasted until the mid
18th century, when pre-unification Italian
states began to suppress the local
inquisitions, effectively eliminating the
power of the church to prosecute heretical
crimes."


The Roman Inquisition , formally the
Supreme Sacred Congregation of the Roman
and Universal Inquisition , was a system of
tribunals developed by the Holy See of the
Roman Catholic Church, during the second
half of the 16th century, responsible for
prosecuting individuals accused of a wide
array of crimes relating to religious
doctrine or alternate religious doctrine or
alternate religious beliefs. In the period
after the Medieval Inquisition , it was one
of three different manifestations of the
wider Catholic Inquisition along with the
Spanish Inquisition and Portuguese
Inquisition .
Objectives
Like other iterations of the Inquisition, the
Roman Inquisition was responsible for
prosecuting individuals accused of
committing offenses relating to heresy,
including Protestantism , sorcery ,
immorality , blasphemy , Judaizing and
witchcraft, as well as for censorship of
printed literature. After 1567, with the
execution of Pietro Carnesecchi, an
allegedly leading heretic, the Holy Office
moved to broaden concerns beyond that of
theological matters, such as love magic,
witchcraft, superstitions, and cultural
morality. However, the treatment was more
disciplinary than punitive. [1] The tribunals
of the Roman Inquisition covered most of
the Italian peninsula as well as Malta and
also existed in isolated pockets of papal
jurisdiction in other parts of Europe ,
including Avignon in France . The Roman
Inquisition, though, was considerably more
bureaucratic and focussed on pre-emptive
control in addition to the reactive judicial
prosecution experienced under other
iterations. [2]"

Constantine didn't make Roman Catholicism a state religion either, you seem to be largely ignorant about these issues. Constantine only gave freedom to Christians to practice their faith. read up the edict of Milan
Re: How Can Man Be Sinless? by Ubenedictus(m): 5:29pm On Mar 05, 2018
live4dgospel:


Here is your previous comment "the inquisition it self was created to stem
civil unrest and provide a just system, it
began in the 12 century and that is true, its
aim isn't to stop people from reading the
Bible but to make sure the state didn't punish
innocent people for crimes they weren't
guilty of, you can read that up here."


Remember you deceitfully chose to use the word Inquisition instead of Roman Inquisition (unless you mean the same thing). There were of course Inquisitions before 15th century, as i have said earlier the "Roman Inquisition" was a third variety!

A third variety of the Inquisition was the
Roman Inquisition. Alarmed by the spread of
Protestantism and especially by its penetration
into Italy, Pope Paul III in 1542 established in
Rome the Congregation of the Inquisition.
This institution was al so known as the
Roman Inquisition and the Holy Office. Six
cardinals including Carafa constituted the
original inquisition whose powers extended to
the whole Church. The "Holy Office" was
really a new institution related to the
Medieval Inquisition only by vague
precedents. More free from episcopal control
than its predecessor, it also conceived of its
function differently. Some saw its
establishment as an attempt to counter-
balance the severe Spanish Inquisition at a
time when much of Italy was under Spanish
rule. Whereas the medieval Inquisition had
focused on popular misconceptions which
resulted in the disturbance of public order,
the Holy Office was concerned with orthodoxy
of a more academic nature, especially as it
appeared in the writings of theologians. In its
first twelve years, the activities of the Roman
Inquisition were relatively modest and were
restricted almost exclusively to Italy. Cardinal
Carafa became Pope Paul IV in 1555 and
immediately urged a vigorous pursuit of
"suspects." His snare did not exclude bishops
or even cardinals of the Church. Pope Paul IV
carged the congregation to draw up a list of
books which he felt offended faith or morals.
This resulted in the first Index of Forbidden
Books (1559). Although succeeding popes
tempered the zeal of the Roman Inquisition,
many viewed the institution as the cutomary
instrument of papal government used in the
regulation of Church order. This was the
institution that would later put Galileo on
trial."

Excerpts from galileo.rice.edu/lib/student_work/trial96/loftis/overview.html

But Here is also what Wikipedia has to say

The Roman Inquisition began in 1542 as
part of the Catholic Church's Counter-
Reformation against the spread of
Protestantism, but it represented a less
harsh affair than the previously established
Spanish Inquisition. [3] In 1588, [4] Pope
Sixtus V established 15 congregations of the
Roman Curia of which the Supreme Sacred
Congregation of the Roman and Universal
Inquisition was one. In 1908, the
congregation was renamed the Supreme
Sacred Congregation of the Holy Office and
in 1965 it was renamed again and is now
known as the Congregation for the
Doctrine of the Faith .
While the Roman Inquisition was originally
designed to combat the spread of
Protestantism in Italy, the institution
outlived that original purpose and the
system of tribunals lasted until the mid
18th century, when pre-unification Italian
states began to suppress the local
inquisitions, effectively eliminating the
power of the church to prosecute heretical
crimes."


The Roman Inquisition , formally the
Supreme Sacred Congregation of the Roman
and Universal Inquisition , was a system of
tribunals developed by the Holy See of the
Roman Catholic Church, during the second
half of the 16th century, responsible for
prosecuting individuals accused of a wide
array of crimes relating to religious
doctrine or alternate religious doctrine or
alternate religious beliefs. In the period
after the Medieval Inquisition , it was one
of three different manifestations of the
wider Catholic Inquisition along with the
Spanish Inquisition and Portuguese
Inquisition .
Objectives
Like other iterations of the Inquisition, the
Roman Inquisition was responsible for
prosecuting individuals accused of
committing offenses relating to heresy,
including Protestantism , sorcery ,
immorality , blasphemy , Judaizing and
witchcraft, as well as for censorship of
printed literature. After 1567, with the
execution of Pietro Carnesecchi, an
allegedly leading heretic, the Holy Office
moved to broaden concerns beyond that of
theological matters, such as love magic,
witchcraft, superstitions, and cultural
morality. However, the treatment was more
disciplinary than punitive. [1] The tribunals
of the Roman Inquisition covered most of
the Italian peninsula as well as Malta and
also existed in isolated pockets of papal
jurisdiction in other parts of Europe ,
including Avignon in France . The Roman
Inquisition, though, was considerably more
bureaucratic and focussed on pre-emptive
control in addition to the reactive judicial
prosecution experienced under other
iterations. [2]"
in case you had forgotten, this is your earlier wrote

Where
is it written in the Bible that any one who tries to
find the truth with the Bible on his own should be
executed, as the Inquisition did in the past, if it was
not an attempt to divert the attention of the true
seekers from finding the faults in Catholicism?


you didn't specify which of the inquisitions which the Church judged, the Roman Inquisition wasn't the first and as I said the Inquisition began in the 12century.
wiki says

The Inquisition was a group of institutions within the
government system of the Catholic Church whose aim
was to combat heresy. It started in 12th-century
France to combat religious dissent, in particular the
Cathars and the Waldensians

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inquisition

so when you wrote the Inquisition you only seem ignorant that the Roman Inquisition wasn't the first nor the beginning of the Inquisition.

it still didn't kill millions as you seem to think, it was just and still didn't issue death sentence.
Re: How Can Man Be Sinless? by live4dgospel(m): 6:28pm On Mar 05, 2018
Ubenedictus:
in case you had forgotten, this is your earlier wrote

Where
is it written in the Bible that any one who tries to
find the truth with the Bible on his own should be
executed, as the Inquisition did in the past, if it was
not an attempt to divert the attention of the true
seekers from finding the faults in Catholicism?


you didn't specify which of the inquisitions which the Church judged, the Roman Inquisition wasn't the first and as I said the Inquisition began in the 12century.
wiki says

The Inquisition was a group of institutions within the
government system of the Catholic Church whose aim
was to combat heresy. It started in 12th-century
France to combat religious dissent, in particular the
Cathars and the Waldensians

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inquisition

so when you wrote the Inquisition you only seem ignorant that the Roman Inquisition wasn't the first nor the beginning of the Inquisition.

it still didn't kill millions as you seem to think, it was just and still didn't issue death sentence.
Anyway I don't minister confusions and misunderstanding.
Re: How Can Man Be Sinless? by Ubenedictus(m): 6:34pm On Mar 05, 2018
live4dgospel:

Anyway I don't minister confusions and misunderstanding.
no you just minister misinformation
Re: How Can Man Be Sinless? by live4dgospel(m): 6:37pm On Mar 05, 2018
Ubenedictus:
no you just minister misinformation
Okay! If you say so.
Re: How Can Man Be Sinless? by live4dgospel(m): 6:37pm On Mar 05, 2018
Ubenedictus:
no you just minister misinformation
Okay! If you say so...
Re: How Can Man Be Sinless? by MummyIMadeIt: 10:23pm On Mar 05, 2018
Interesting write-ups on history....

It's easy for me to spot who's at a Lee way here as it's all clear for even a blind man to spot. But the Cruz of the matter is about the subject matter Can a Christian live a sinless life.

Can u do well to expantiate more on this.
Thanks
Re: How Can Man Be Sinless? by live4dgospel(m): 6:36am On Mar 06, 2018
MummyIMadeIt:
Interesting write-ups on history....

It's easy for me to spot who's at a Lee way here as it's all clear for even a blind man to spot. But the Cruz of the matter is about the subject matter Can a Christian live a sinless life.

Can u do well to expantiate more on this.
Thanks
Christians can live a sinless life by faith, not from the flesh but in the heart. As Paul said in Romans chapter 2 "circumcision is that of the heart". God's willing I will talk about this 'Circumcision' in my later topics. So for a Christian to be sinless he must have faith in the righteousness of God by believing in the "gospel of water and the Spirit" as Jesus preached to Nicodemus that man must be born of water and Spirit to enter the kingdom of God. To help you understand the gospel well while confirming everything with your Bible, I have this e-book for you to download. Click oj the link to download instantly (2 megabytes only)
https://drive.google.com/uc?id=17wYgaNITSYbZMJ8zrf38T6Ft9iQ_YcCX&export=download
Re: How Can Man Be Sinless? by Nobody: 3:52pm On Mar 07, 2018
live4dgospel:

Yes, the present version of Roman Catholic Church was created by Roman Emperor Constantine after the Edict of Millan in 313 AD when he legalized and made it the state religion. However, before that the churches of God existed in Rome which as you said suffered much persecutions and scattered by the Roman authority. But since I'm not a historian, I can't talk about such with conviction as I would with the Bible. Hence, anyone who claims the present Roman Catholic Church is a continuation of the early churches in Rome, I can only challenge over that with the Word of God and not with history. I know very that the true early churches had the same as the apostles so any church that claims to be part of the early churches should have the same faith as the apostles. Now the faith of the apostles is written in the Bible, so the Bible has become the reservoir of truths to judge all doctrinal issues.
catholicism is not Christianity just a reform paganism.
What most people don't know is that Christianity can never be a state religion.
Re: How Can Man Be Sinless? by Nobody: 4:07pm On Mar 07, 2018
Ubenedictus:


the post wasn't addressed to you, it was addressed to
someone who claimed the gospel was transmitted in the
early church and that their understanding is a help in
understanding scriptures.
if you share that belief then you may respond to the
questions, if not waka pass.
which early church are you talking about, abi you think
the early church ended with Titus, if it didn't then you
can tell us its members.
I'm still asking who told you the Catholic Church
corrupted the Gospel,
your question does not make any sense.
Where did I say the church ended? Read properly before you comment. The catholic church is just like pharisee council, who believed they were superior because they were the custodian of the law.

Let me chip in this Christianity can never be made a state religion.
But
Roman catholicism was adopted as a state religion
Whereas the true church was persecuted while the state religion was nothing more than a tool for persecution and control.
Do you know the first roman catholic pope?
Don't even mention Peter cause peter never knew of roman catholism.
Re: How Can Man Be Sinless? by live4dgospel(m): 8:52pm On Mar 12, 2018
solite3:
catholicism is not Christianity just a reform paganism.
What most people don't know is that Christianity can never be a state religion.
Yes, I would believe without any trace of doubt that Catholicism is not Christianity. I think it's best described as religion. Christianity is faith in the word of God but religion is a mixture of humans' thoughts with perhaps the word of God. For example, after the Second Vatican Council (1962-1965) Catholic Church declared "There is salvation outside the church" whereas the word of God says in Acts 4:12 "Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”
Re: How Can Man Be Sinless? by Ubenedictus(m): 8:31am On Mar 15, 2018
solite3:
your question does not make any sense.
Where did I say the church ended? Read properly before you comment. The catholic church is just like pharisee council, who believed they were superior because they were the custodian of the law.

Let me chip in this Christianity can never be made a state religion.
But
Roman catholicism was adopted as a state religion
Whereas the true church was persecuted while the state religion was nothing more than a tool for persecution and control.
Do you know the first roman catholic pope?
Don't even mention Peter cause peter never knew of roman catholism.
the post was not for you but since you are intent on sticking yourself into it I'll respond.


Christianity can be made, was made a state religion, both the Church in Rome, Antioch, Alexandria, Jerusalem,... were all free from persecution and was later made a state religion... that was the true Church,


the historical case is clear Peter was the founder of the Roman episcopacy, the first bishop of Rome.
Re: How Can Man Be Sinless? by Ubenedictus(m): 8:38am On Mar 15, 2018
live4dgospel:

Yes, I would believe without any trace of doubt that Catholicism is not Christianity. I think it's best described as religion. Christianity is faith in the word of God but religion is a mixture of humans' thoughts with perhaps the word of God. For example, after the Second Vatican Council (1962-1965) Catholic Church declared "There is salvation outside the church" whereas the word of God says in Acts 4:12 "Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”
that means there were no Christians from 100AD to 1600. actually I know different, the Catholic Church is Christianity in it original form while Protestantism that began 500 years ago is a new heresy made to delude the unsuspecting

1 Like

Re: How Can Man Be Sinless? by Ubenedictus(m): 8:42am On Mar 15, 2018
solite3:
catholicism is not Christianity just a reform paganism.
What most people don't know is that Christianity can never be a state religion.
says the ignorant Protestant who doesn't know that many Protestant churches were also state religion.
Re: How Can Man Be Sinless? by live4dgospel(m): 10:09am On Mar 15, 2018
Ubenedictus:
that means there were no Christians from 100AD to 1600. actually I know different, the Catholic Church is Christianity in it original form while Protestantism that began 500 years ago is a new heresy made to delude the unsuspecting
At least try not to make yourself a fool when commenting. Who is a Christian? Is it not someone who believes in the salvation of Jesus Christ or has that definition be changed by Catholic Church? Roman Catholic Church is a particular church. When Paul established Church in Rome he also established other churches in other regions. In fact, I Will have to repeat: The absolute corruption of Christian faith started after the Edict of Milan in 313AD, when then Catholic Church extended their power in many parts of the world. Then Christianity remained in the Age of Darkness for about 1000 years during the dynastic rule of Catholic Church in Christendom. I mean from 313AD to today, Catholic Church is nothing but a mere religion created by human beings in disguise as the servants of God. So don't further deceive yourself by equating Roman Catholic Church to Christians as you have done in this comment!
Re: How Can Man Be Sinless? by Ubenedictus(m): 10:33am On Mar 15, 2018
live4dgospel:

At least try not to make yourself a fool when commenting. Who is a Christian? Is it not someone who believes in the salvation of Jesus Christ or has that definition be changed by Catholic Church? Roman Catholic Church is a particular church. When Paul established Church in Rome he also established others churches in other regions. In fact, I Will have to repeat: The absolute corruption of Christian faith started after the Edict of Milan in 313AD, when then Catholic Church extended their power throughout Europe. Then Christianity remained in the Age of Darkness for about 1000 years during the dynastic rule of Catholic Church in Christendom. I mean from 313AD to today, Catholic Church is nothing but a mere religion created by human beings in disguise as the servants of God. So don't ever equate Roman Catholic Church to Christians as you have done in this comment!
so you finally realised you are a fool for thinking Catholics aren't Christians even though they believe in salvation wrought by Christ.

your ignorance only shows that you are not aware that the entire church was Catholic in belief from 100-1600 unless the heretics like the Arian's and the gnostics. the church in Antioch, Jerusalem, Alexandria, etc were all Catholic and presided by the Pope, so if you claim the Catholic church isn't Christianity that means you think Christianity started with the Protestants in the 16th century with their varied contradictory sects.
Re: How Can Man Be Sinless? by live4dgospel(m): 11:03am On Mar 15, 2018
Ubenedictus:
so you finally realised you are a fool for thinking Catholics aren't Christians even though they believe in salvation wrought by Christ.

your ignorance only shows that you are not aware that the entire church was Catholic in belief from 100-1600 unless the heretics like the Arian's and the gnostics. the church in Antioch, Jerusalem, Alexandria, etc were all Catholic and presided by the Pope, so if you claim the Catholic church isn't Christianity that means you think Christianity started with the Protestants in the 16th century with their varied contradictory sects.
I simply cannot stop having pity on your likes! What about now? Is Roman Catholic Church not being presided by Pope around the world now? I think you don't read. Read my previous comment again, I said churches existed before the Edict of Milan in AD 313. But after that Roman Catholic Church corrupted Christian faith by introducing many heretical doctrines. If you read further, I said Roman Catholic Church is a religion. And I said religion is a product of human thought with perhaps an addition of word of God. Roman Catholic Church is no longer Christianity when it has added men's thoughts to the word of God. I also think you are being fooled by this apostle's Creed “I believe in the Holy Ghost, the holy catholic Church, the communion of saints; the forgiveness of sins; the resurrection of the body; and the life everlasting. Amen"
Re: How Can Man Be Sinless? by Ubenedictus(m): 11:41am On Mar 15, 2018
live4dgospel:

I simply cannot stop having pity on your likes! What about now? Is Roman Catholic Church not being presided by Pope around the world now? I think you don't read. Read my previous comment again, I said churches existed before the Edict of Milan in AD 313. But after that Roman Catholic Church corrupted Christian faith by introducing many heretical doctrines. If you read further, I said Roman Catholic Church is a religion. And I said religion is a product of human thought with perhaps an addition of word of God. Roman Catholic Church is no longer Christianity when it has added men's thoughts to the word of God. I also think you are being fooled by this apostle's Creed “I believe in the Holy Ghost, the holy catholic Church, the communion of saints; the forgiveness of sins; the resurrection of the body; and the life everlasting. Amen"
the church before AD 313 was still the Catholic church, the teaching of the church before AD 313 are still the teachings of the Catholic church today. the church never mixed the Christian faith with anything, in fact it rejected all such mixing, it is your new age churches that seems to be confusing you.

a religion is belief in a supreme being, Christianity is a religion stop creating a false dichotomy and in Christianity, it original ancient and purest form is called Catholicism.

and yes I do believe in the holy spirit, the lord and giver of life WHO proceeds from the father and the son, with the father and son is worshipped and glorified, he it was who spoke through the prophets, I believe in the one, holy Catholic and apostolic church, the communion of saints, I profess one baptism for the forgiveness of sins, I look forward to the resurrection of the dead and eternal life to come.
Re: How Can Man Be Sinless? by live4dgospel(m): 12:13pm On Mar 15, 2018
Ubenedictus:
the church before AD 313 was still the Catholic church, the teaching of the church before AD 313 are still the teachings of the Catholic church today. the church never mixed the Christian faith with anything, in fact it rejected all such mixing, it is your new age churches that seems to be confusing you.

a religion is belief in a supreme being, Christianity is a religion stop creating a false dichotomy and in Christianity, it original ancient and purest form is called Catholicism.

and yes I do believe in the holy spirit, the lord and giver of life WHO proceeds from the father and the son, with the father and son is worshipped and glorified, he it was who spoke through the prophets, I believe in the one, holy Catholic and apostolic church, the communion of saints, I profess one baptism for the forgiveness of sins, I look forward to the resurrection of the dead and eternal life to come.
How about the introduction of another heresy after the Second Vatican Council (1962-1965) when Roman Catholic Church declared "There is salvation outside the church"? Which contradicted what it's written in Acts 4:12. Is it a teaching of the Early Church before 313AD? I heard that in Heaven there are heaps of ears, these are the ears of those who heard the truth but rejected it and instead embraced falsehood. You hold Catholicism with passion not knowing that the Devil has committed all of you to it that you may be destroyed in the end. However, you have to believe what you choose to believe.
Re: How Can Man Be Sinless? by Ubenedictus(m): 3:33pm On Mar 15, 2018
live4dgospel:

How about the introduction of another heresy after the Second Vatican Council (1962-1965) when Roman Catholic Church declared "There is salvation outside the church"? Which contradicted what it's written in Acts 4:12. Is it a teaching of the Early Church before 313AD? I heard that in Heaven there are heaps of ears, these are the ears of those who heard the truth but rejected it and instead embraced falsehood. You hold Catholicism with passion not knowing that the Devil has committed all of you to it that you may be destroyed in the end. However, you have to believe what you choose to believe.
the church is the body of Christ, how can there be salvation outside that body of Christ....

the teaching that there is no salvation outside the Church actually was clearly expressed by the early church before 313 ad


Saint Irenaeus (died A.D. 202): “[The Church] is the entrance
to life; all others are thieves and robbers. On this account we
are bound to avoid them… We hear it declared of the
unbelieving and the blinded of this world that they shall not
inherit the world of life which is to come… Resist them in
defense of the only true and life giving faith, which the
Church has received from the Apostles and imparted to her
sons.” (Against Heresies , Book III)

Origen (died A.D. 254): “Let no man deceive himself. Outside
this house, that is, outside the Church no one is saved.” ( In
Iesu Nave homiliae )

Saint Cyprian (died A.D. 258): “He who has turned his back on
the Church of Christ shall not come to the rewards of Christ;
he is an alien, a worldling, an enemy. You cannot have God
for your Father if you have not the Church for your mother.
Our Lord warns us when He says: `he that is not with Me is
against Me, and he that gathereth not with Me scattereth.’
Whosoever breaks the peace and harmony of Christ acts
against Christ; whoever gathers elsewhere than in the
Church scatters the Church of Christ.” (Unity of the Catholic
Church )

“He who does not hold this unity, does not hold the law of
God, does not hold the faith of the Father and the Son, does
not hold life and salvation.” ( Patrologiae Cursus Completus:
Latina , Father Migne)

“Nay, though they should suffer death for the confession of
the Name, the guilt of such men is not removed even by their
blood…No martyr can he be who is not in the
Church.” (Ancient Christian Writers )

Bishop Firmilean (died A.D. 269): “What is the greatness of his
error, and what the depth of his blindness, who says that
remission of sins can be granted in the synagogues of
heretics, and does not abide on the foundation of the one
Church.” (Anti-Nicene Fathers )

Lactantius (died A.D. 310): “It is the Catholic Church alone
which retains true worship. This is the fountain of truth, this
is the abode of the Faith, this is the temple of God; into which
if anyone shall not enter, or from which if anyone shall go
out, he is a stranger to the hope of life and eternal
salvation.” (The Divine Institutes )



and in case you are wondering what it means Wikipedia has an article to help you

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extra_Ecclesiam_nulla_salus
Re: How Can Man Be Sinless? by live4dgospel(m): 5:26pm On Mar 15, 2018
Ubenedictus:
the church is the body of Christ, how can there be salvation outside that body of Christ....

the teaching that there is no salvation outside the Church actually was clearly expressed by the early church before 313 ad


Saint Irenaeus (died A.D. 202): “[The Church] is the entrance
to life; all others are thieves and robbers. On this account we
are bound to avoid them… We hear it declared of the
unbelieving and the blinded of this world that they shall not
inherit the world of life which is to come… Resist them in
defense of the only true and life giving faith, which the
Church has received from the Apostles and imparted to her
sons.” (Against Heresies , Book III)

Origen (died A.D. 254): “Let no man deceive himself. Outside
this house, that is, outside the Church no one is saved.” ( In
Iesu Nave homiliae )

Saint Cyprian (died A.D. 258): “He who has turned his back on
the Church of Christ shall not come to the rewards of Christ;
he is an alien, a worldling, an enemy. You cannot have God
for your Father if you have not the Church for your mother.
Our Lord warns us when He says: `he that is not with Me is
against Me, and he that gathereth not with Me scattereth.’
Whosoever breaks the peace and harmony of Christ acts
against Christ; whoever gathers elsewhere than in the
Church scatters the Church of Christ.” (Unity of the Catholic
Church )

“He who does not hold this unity, does not hold the law of
God, does not hold the faith of the Father and the Son, does
not hold life and salvation.” ( Patrologiae Cursus Completus:
Latina , Father Migne)

“Nay, though they should suffer death for the confession of
the Name, the guilt of such men is not removed even by their
blood…No martyr can he be who is not in the
Church.” (Ancient Christian Writers )

Bishop Firmilean (died A.D. 269): “What is the greatness of his
error, and what the depth of his blindness, who says that
remission of sins can be granted in the synagogues of
heretics, and does not abide on the foundation of the one
Church.” (Anti-Nicene Fathers )

Lactantius (died A.D. 310): “It is the Catholic Church alone
which retains true worship. This is the fountain of truth, this
is the abode of the Faith, this is the temple of God; into which
if anyone shall not enter, or from which if anyone shall go
out, he is a stranger to the hope of life and eternal
salvation.” (The Divine Institutes )



and in case you are wondering what it means Wikipedia has an article to help you

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extra_Ecclesiam_nulla_salus
See what you take pride in presenting here. Even while the apostles were writing their books, others who went out from their true faith have started corrupting the gospel, I have given many examples of such as the case in Galatia and the seven churches of Asia in the book of Revelation. Are you then vindicating me? Didn't I tell you the absolute corruption(I mean corruption with impunity) of Christian faith started after the Edict of Milan in AD 313? All those figures(you claim to be your church fathers and Early Church members) you presented here, even though I desire not to know them in any way wrote all these before the AD 313, and you don't even know whether they are the true faith transmitters or corrupters! I would rather be happy if you can provide me with some books written by those people so that I can validate their faith by shining the light of the word of God. After the Second Vatican Council 1962-1965 Roman Catholic Church declared "There is salvation outside the church" even your present Pope is still advocating for that under religious harmony. Maybe I will give you time to read about the declaration of Second Vatican Council.
Re: How Can Man Be Sinless? by Ubenedictus(m): 6:16pm On Mar 15, 2018
live4dgospel:

See what you take pride in presenting here. Even while the apostles were writing their books, others who went out from their true faith have started corrupting the gospel, I have given many examples of such as the case in Galatia and the seven churches of Asia in the book of Revelation. Are you then vindicating me? Didn't I tell you the absolute corruption(I mean corruption with impunity) of Christian faith started after the Edict of Milan in AD 313? All those figures(you claim to be your church fathers and Early Church members) you presented here, even though I desire not to know them in any way wrote all these before the AD 313, and you don't even know whether they are the true faith transmitters or corrupters! I would rather be happy if you can provide me with some books written by those people so that I can validate their faith by shining the light of the word of God. After the Second Vatican Council 1962-1965 Roman Catholic Church declared "There is salvation outside the church" even your present Pope is still advocating for that under religious harmony. Maybe I will give you time to read about the declaration of Second Vatican Council.
they were the transmitters of the faith, many bishops and clergy whose job it was to condemn heresy, in fact they were the guys who preached against the major heresies of their time.

if you don't desire to read up then you wish to remain in your ignorance, no wonder you imagine all these your fake stories.

I have read up on Vatican 2 council, I have the complete works of the council in two volumes, I don't need a jjc to tell me about it.

the church is the body of Christ, outside the body of Christ none is saved.


since you wish to criticise those guys, here is one of their writing

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103.htm

this was written by iraeneaus bishop of Lyons against the heretics of the time, he examine the false doctrines and refutes them...you can criticise him if you find fault in his teaching.
Re: How Can Man Be Sinless? by Nobody: 6:36pm On Mar 15, 2018
live4dgospel:

Yes, I would believe without any trace of doubt that Catholicism is not Christianity. I think it's best described as religion. Christianity is faith in the word of God but religion is a mixture of humans' thoughts with perhaps the word of God. For example, after the Second Vatican Council (1962-1965) Catholic Church declared "There is salvation outside the church" whereas the word of God says in Acts 4:12 "Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”
exactly, benedictus is just doing what any religious person would do, defending their religion even when the truth is evident.
Imagine such blasphemy
Re: How Can Man Be Sinless? by Nobody: 6:53pm On Mar 15, 2018
[
quote author=Ubenedictus post=65852223] the post was not for you but since you are intent on sticking yourself into it I'll respond.


Christianity can be made, was made a state religion, both the Church in Rome, Antioch, Alexandria, Jerusalem,... were all free from persecution and was later made a state religion... that was the true Church,
you don't know what you are talking about.
You don't know what christianity is. Christianity can never be made a state religion because the ruler of this world is the devil. You have been deceived by believing roman catholism is christianiy.


the historical case is clear Peter was the founder of the Roman episcopacy, the first bishop of Rome.
state the evidence and it must not be from a roman catholic source.
Episcopal movement is the devils movement.
Do you know what a bishop is? Was peter a bishop or an apostle?
Re: How Can Man Be Sinless? by Ubenedictus(m): 7:12pm On Mar 15, 2018
solite3:
[ you don't know what you are talking about.
You don't know what christianity is. Christianity can never be made a state religion because the ruler of this world is the devil. You have been deceived by believing roman catholism is christianiy.

state the evidence and it must not be from a roman catholic source.
Episcopal movement is the devils movement.
Do you know what a bishop is? Was peter a bishop or an apostle?
sorry Satan was the ruler of the world, Jesus has died and rose and taken all Dominion and power, he shall reign until he make all his enemies his footstool and the last been death.


the bishop is simply overseer, while the apostles were alive they sometimes took that ministry and over saw some churches, prominent in such was John who oversaw Ephesus for a long time.
Re: How Can Man Be Sinless? by live4dgospel(m): 7:41pm On Mar 15, 2018
Ubenedictus:
they were the transmitters of the faith, many bishops and clergy whose job it was to condemn heresy, in fact they were the guys who preached against the major heresies of their time.

if you don't desire to read up then you wish to remain in your ignorance, no wonder you imagine all these your fake stories.

I have read up on Vatican 2 council, I have the complete works of the council in two volumes, I don't need a jjc to tell me about it.

the church is the body of Christ, outside the body of Christ none is saved.


since you wish to criticise those guys, here is one of their writing

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103.htm

this was written by iraeneaus bishop of Lyons against the heretics of the time, he examine the false doctrines and refutes them...you can criticise him if you find fault in his teaching.
Is this not a book review? Do you expect me to read the review of his book, reviewed perhaps by your church member? However, I saw lots of heresies even from the book review. For instance, he said that the force of the law is binding to believers, in order words if a believer fails in the law he will be punished by God even though he believes in Christ. This contradicted thear verses "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes." (Romans 10:4) and "I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain"( Galatians 2:21)
I heard lots of 'proof of so and so', I will need the book itself let me validate the proofs.
Re: How Can Man Be Sinless? by Nobody: 9:01pm On Mar 15, 2018
[quote author=Ubenedictus post=65868861] sorry Satan was the ruler of the world, Jesus has died and rose and taken all Dominion and power, he shall reign until he make all his enemies his footstool and the last been death.
Satan is no longer the ruler of the world yet the bible calls Satan the god of this world?

2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
Galatians 1:4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:

Ephesians 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

the bishop is simply overseer, while the apostles were alive they sometimes took that ministry and over saw some churches, prominent in such was John who oversaw Ephesus for a long time.
you still haven't provide any evidence that shows peter was a bishop in rome.
Provide evidence that shows that peter was a bishop in Rome. Or peter ever took the ministry of bishopric

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