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Male Chivalry And Feminism: Are They Mutually Exclusive? - Romance - Nairaland

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Male Chivalry And Feminism: Are They Mutually Exclusive? by Tohzara(m): 8:05am On Feb 14, 2018
What do you think? Can you have both? Can you be a feminist and still DEMAND or feel ENTITLED to MALE CHIVALRY?

Share your thoughts.

Cc. MissWrite
lovelygurl
Faxole
Sagamite
cococandy
shaybebaby
greiboy
ubunja
Bluntboy
AnonyNymus
johnydon22
Humanistme
pocohantas
ReinaFarine
Exciton
LadyGoddiva
and others
Re: Male Chivalry And Feminism: Are They Mutually Exclusive? by ubunja(m): 9:02am On Feb 14, 2018
Tohzara:
What do you think? Can you have both? Can you be a feminist and still DEMAND or feel ENTITLED to MALE CHIVALRY?

Share your thoughts.

Cc. MissWrite
lovelygurl
Faxole
Sagamite
cococandy
shaybebaby
greyboiy
ubunja
Bluntboy
AnonyNymus
johnydon22
Humanistme
pocohantas
ReinaFarine
Exciton
LadyGoddiva
Daeylar
and others
to do so would be the height of hypocrsy
but ever the crafty creatures women are, they will always find an excuse.
Re: Male Chivalry And Feminism: Are They Mutually Exclusive? by Nobody: 9:07am On Feb 14, 2018
Interesting line of thought...Funnily, it never crossed my mind...Brilliant question oP... Lol, you need cococandy for this one


Sense of entitlement.... tongue
Re: Male Chivalry And Feminism: Are They Mutually Exclusive? by Sagamite(m): 10:37am On Feb 14, 2018
As far as I am concerned, it is not acceptable to be a "feminist" today, it just does not fly anymore period.

I hear that word/tag and I immediately get irritated.

That said, I am not saying all women that tag themselves as "feminists" are arseholes or even wrong with their views (depending on what those are and how they are configured). There are many sane females with the ideals of equity that misjudgedly tag themselves as a feminist.

They need to learn it really just does not fly after the damage that has been done to that tag. It is not a tag that is redeemable anymore.

It is like someone coming to say I am a Nazi because I love my country, Germany, but I don't hate Jews, I believe in free-speech and I would tolerate opposition. IT WOULD NOT FLY!

It is like someone coming to say I am a Colonialist because I want to help African countries to develop, but I don't support slavery and the exploitation of black people. IT WOULD NOT FLY!

It is like someone coming to say I am part of Al Qaeda/ISIS because I believe Allah loves every human being on earth and I want to share the beauty of Islam with the world, but I don't believe in violence and imposition of my beliefs by force. IT WOULD NOT FLY!


Like feminism, all those tags are permanently damaged and you cannot associate your good ideals with them. Find a fcking new tag!

There is no "I understand your reaction but those are not the real feminsits/Nazis/Colonialists/ISIS, you are mistaken". Find a fcking new tag!

So if we are coming from the angle of the tag "feminism", then the answer to the thread's question is "HELL NO".

If we are coming from the angle of decent personal ideals related to the original driving movement of feminism. Then that is a different discussion.

What are the decent personal ideals? I shall use a very good summarisation by GiantParrot to explain:

GiantParrot:

Hopefully Nigerian/African women would learn from the burgeoning backlash we're seeing against their western counterparts, and focus their activism on real problems (like poorer access to education for female children, domestic abuse, babaric treatment of widows, abuse of wives by in-laws, and so on,) without overstepping into delusional notions like make-believe equality (which is essentially equality of outcome achieved via forced quotas), female superiority and male subservience. And rid themselves of the unwarranted sense of entitlement and self-importance that stem from such nonsensical notions.

Those are the decent personal ideals any sane human being should have and support.

That is, the right of women to have freedom of choice as men do and for them to be able to exploit these choices and their abilities as best as they can to compete in society. In short, EQUITY!

I repeat equity, not equality, as women (on average) can never and are not evolutionarily built to be equal to men.

Yes, I fcking said it! Nature is not fcking politically correct. Take that to the bank and get some great fcking interest.

There would be those women that are better than men, but on average men would be better in the things feminism is trying to get equality on.

But whatever each individual's ability, they should have the freedom to elect how they use it without any legal control and limitations because of their gender. Nor should they have any legal leg up or advantage because of their gender. That is my stance!

This stance is compatible with chivalry. Feminism (the madness) is not!

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Re: Male Chivalry And Feminism: Are They Mutually Exclusive? by Nobody: 11:14am On Feb 14, 2018
Sagamite:
As far as I am concerned, it is not acceptable to be a "feminist" today, it just does not fly anymore period.

I hear that word/tag and I immediately get irritated.

That said, I am not saying all women that tag themselves as "feminists" are arseholes or even wrong with their views (depending on what those are and how they are configured). There are many sane females with the ideals of equity that misjudgedly tag themselves as a feminist.

They need to learn it really just does not fly after the damage that has been done to that tag. It is not a tag that is redeemable anymore.

It is like someone coming to say I am a Nazi because I love my country, Germany, but I don't hate Jews, I believe in free-speech and I would tolerate opposition. IT WOULD NOT FLY!

It is like someone coming to say I am a Colonialist because I want to help African countries to develop, but I don't support slavery and the exploitation of black people. IT WOULD NOT FLY!

It is like someone coming to say I am part of Al Qaeda/ISIS because I believe Allah loves every human being on earth and I want to share the beauty of Islam with the world, but I don't believe in violence and imposition of my beliefs by force. IT WOULD NOT FLY!


Like feminism, all those tags are permanently damage and you cannot associate your good ideals with them. Find a fcking new tag!

There is no "I understand your reaction but those are not the real feminsits/Nazis/Colonialists/ISIS, you are mistaken". Find a fcking new tag!

So if we are coming from the angle of the tag "feminism", then the answer to the thread's question is "HELL NO".

If we are coming from the angle of decent personal ideals related to the original driving movement of feminism. Then that is a different discussion.

What are the decent personal ideals? I shall use a very good summarisation by GiantParrot to explain:



Those are the decent personal ideals any sane human being should have and support.

That is, the right of women to have freedom of choice as men do and for them to be able to exploit these choices and their abilities as best as they can to compete in society. In short, EQUITY!

I repeat equity, not equality, as women (on average) can never and are not evolutionarily built to be equal to men.

Yes, I fcking said it! Nature is not fcking politically correct. Take that to the bank and get some great fcking interest.

There would be those women that are better than men, but on average men would be better in the things feminism is trying to get equality on.

But whatever each individual's ability, they should have the freedom to elect how they use it without any legal control and limitations because of their gender. Nor should they have any legal leg up or advantage because of their gender. That is my stance!

This stance is compatible with chivalry. Feminism (the madness) is not!


It is like someone coming to say I am a Nazi because I love my country, Germany, but I don't hate Jews, I believe in free-speech and I would tolerate opposition. IT WOULD NOT FLY! ....... tongue



This stance is compatible with chivalry. Feminism (the madness) is not! wink
Re: Male Chivalry And Feminism: Are They Mutually Exclusive? by ReinaFarine: 2:51pm On Feb 14, 2018
Sagamite is quite pained with the word feminism.... Well even though the word has been bastardised and used as a term to support man-hating and pseudo-abuse against the male gender, as long as the dictionary definition still reads a person who believes in the social, political and economic equality of the sexes, I AM A FEMINIST. I don't know but you can check the definition of who a Nazi is, who an Alqaeda sympathizer is or whatever, The definition of the term kind of describe who the person is and what they support. So until the term gets so bastardized that the definition changes in the dictionary, I am a feminist.

The fact that millions use the I AM A MUSLIM FIGHTING FOR ALLAH to defend their acts of terrorism doesn't make every Muslim a terrorist. The fact that Libya is now a very big market for slave trade doesn't make every Libyan a slave trader. The fact that most Yoruba young men are known for their flirty playboy attitude doesn't make every Yoruba man unfaithful. I define true feminism and until the dictionary meaning of that word changes to a man hating (sometimes to he point of abuse), sad, depressed, lonely, old, hag of a lesbian. I AM A FEMINIST.. And you can take that to the bank. Give me another word for a person with my beliefs and I will swing that flag so high you'll see it from outer space until then, please call me a feminist.

And for chivalry, once again I'll go with the definition of the word. I have attachrd the definition of the word that i can find in a picture to this text. I'll appreciate my partner (not a random male figure) to treat me kindly. Why? Because he loves me. Not because I am weak but taking care of me is his utmost priority and he will strive to do anything to put a smile on my face. And I will do likewise. Anything to put a smile on my face. It becomes misogyny if the reason he is taking care of me is because he considers me fragile and incompetent of doing little things like opening my car doors or zipping up my gown or pulling out a chair on a date or any other perceived form of chivalry. Similarly it will be insulting if the reason I pack his lunches, fix his cufflinks, and all are because I consider him too stupid to handle such task. Note he is not doing all these because I am a woman. He is doing it because I am his soulmate. Kisses.

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Re: Male Chivalry And Feminism: Are They Mutually Exclusive? by MissWrite(f): 4:36pm On Feb 14, 2018
Male chivalry? No. I think it would be unfair to insist on male chivalry alone; there's always an imbalance/inequality when you say "male this" or "female that". And this kind of inequality doesn't agree with the general feminist philosophy. Chivalry has a non-gender-specific definition, and it simply means showing kindness, respect and loyalty to people around you. Chivalry and feminism aren't mutually exclusive. The fact that women are (and want to be) self-determining creatures in society doesn't impede chivalrous behavior in any way. We give it and we take it.

We all deserve a little consideration from others, and that is exactly how we should all be with people: considerate. When I walk through a door in a public building, I hold it open for the person coming behind me (whether it's a man or a woman or a child) so it doesn't slam in their face. When someone drops their stuff and it falls at my feet, I pick it up for them (whether it's a man or a woman). When someone I'm with is trying to lift something heavy, I give them a hand. When I see someone who is greatly inconvenienced by standing (for whatever obvious condition: pregnancy, amputation, fatigue....), I give them my seat (whether it's a man or a woman).

It's nice when people are kind and courteous. But the vagina doesn't require more consideration than the penis in society (and vise-versa; Seun, kindly address this issue of biased censorship sad )so don't give your seat to someone simply because she's a woman.

However, in relationships, people tend to baby each other to make each other feel special, and that's okay. It's not anti-equality; it's a way to show affection. These little things are indicative of how much the other person cares and a mark of their attentiveness (and sometimes: possessiveness) towards their significant other. I would definitely sit myself down before my date has had the chance to pull up a chair for me; but if he sits down without an eye out to be sure that I've got a seat too, I would hold it against him. Bigly angry. And I would give equal consideration to him. I won't just sit down before I've made sure he's sorted out as well (even if I won't be the one hauling a chair over my head).

Men would want feminists to believe now that the old-fashioned male chivalry was all about women, but ugly lowly girls would remember history differently. And we know better too. Most guys wouldn't even have contemplated giving a lift, or giving up their seat, to a four-hundred pound woman even if she desperately needed to get off her feet. But that's okay, women are also less inclined to give favors to un-hot men; we live in a superficial world.

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Re: Male Chivalry And Feminism: Are They Mutually Exclusive? by BluntBoy(m): 4:56pm On Feb 14, 2018
Tohzara:
What do you think? Can you have both? Can you be a feminist and still DEMAND or feel ENTITLED to MALE CHIVALRY?

Share your thoughts.

Cc. MissWr.ite
lovelyg.url
Fax.ole
Sagami.te
cococan.dy
shaybebab.y
greyb.oiy
ubu.nja
Bluntb.oy
AnonyNy.mus
johnydon.22
Humani.st
me
pocohant.as
ReinaFar.ine
Excit.on
LadyGod.diva
Daeyla.r
and others

It is possible. I think it is part of what they hope to solidify with their clamoring.

However, the misinformed ones among them see the movement as a battle for supremacy between the sexes.

Note: I have not met one single sincere feminist in all my life. The ones I meet everyday are just the dregs of society who want respect when they have not earned it. They preach hate and support violence against men and are always incapable of tolerating opinions that contradict theirs.

Thank you for the mention, bro.

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Re: Male Chivalry And Feminism: Are They Mutually Exclusive? by Nobody: 5:40pm On Feb 14, 2018
Op you got the spelling of my moniker wrong

on the question

it is a pretty tough one tbh. Partly because every relationship is unique in a way and also because the traditional roles of gender have changed over the centuries in relationships. it is also where the whole debate about equality vs equity becomes very intense

on one hand, showing male chivalry is a sort of anti equality stance or it portrays women as a weaker vessel, which feminists are not entirely ready to admit. I.e. opening the door, heavy lifting around the house

on the other end, the male chivalry is seen by many as compensation for the traditional roles women usually do in relationships i.e. cooking, taking care of children which feminist are fighting against.

Furthermore, it maybe seen as some sort of unfair advantage in a relationship for ladies demanding equality in relationships because it is a medieval(old) concept, or an ideology that was entertained in a period women were not allowed to vote or have an opinion.

So it will look like they have kept the medieval concept that favored them while discarding the ones that don't

So to answer your question, it is a capital NO

Still, ladies love the chivalry attitude or gesture in men, at leat most ladies do grin

The walking by her side at night to make sure she is safe

The opening the door for her

The holding her tight with those juicy hands in the cold weather grin sadly I don't have those hands

And so on


Hence, the argument for equity over equality.

Many people believe fairness in all situations is the best way to deal with issues in relationships and the society in general as against equality for equality sake.

1 Like

Re: Male Chivalry And Feminism: Are They Mutually Exclusive? by Tohzara(m): 8:41pm On Feb 14, 2018
ubunja:

to do so would be the height of hypocrsy
but ever the crafty creatures women are, they will always find an excuse.
I think it wouldn't be hypocritical if it goes both ways----if the emphasis isn't placed on MALE CHIVALRY. The same way feminists are against making house chores gender specific. But I know feminists who do and see nothing wrong in it. They actually consider it to be an obligation on the part of the male, but not theirs. And I find that ridiculous. It shouldn't be a "male thing" anymore.
Re: Male Chivalry And Feminism: Are They Mutually Exclusive? by Tohzara(m): 9:08pm On Feb 14, 2018
MissWrite and ReinaFarine, I agree with you guys 100%. Like you said, It shouldn't be gender-specific (as that would make it sexist), but I WAS gender-specific in my question because that's exactly what I wanted to talk about. I've edited the topic to make that clear. And I appreciate your responses.

I consider it hypocritical for a feminist to place emphasis on male chivalry and consider it a one-sided OBLIGATION. And I'm glad none of you tried making a case for it. There are "feminists" who consider this normal, and claim those of us who have problems with it are "petty". I think it's a normal thing to do, but it should be RECIPROCATED.

Sagamite, I think you should focus on the ACTUAL definition of feminism, and not the ideologies of shitty clowns and rats that have hijacked the tag. It remains valid for those who stay true to the actual objective of the movement and recognize its boundaries----and there's still a significant number of them, so you can't lump them into a basket with these other "feminists", or ask them to abandon their movement for these cretins.

Having said that, I think the answer you gave in your last statement isn't really precise. Do you mean MALE CHIVALRY (note the emphasis) and "sane" feminism are compatible, or are you talking about chivalry in itself, without gender obligations attached?

1 Like

Re: Male Chivalry And Feminism: Are They Mutually Exclusive? by Tohzara(m): 9:16pm On Feb 14, 2018
BluntBoy:


It is possible. I think it is part of what they hope to solidify with their clamoring.

However, the misinformed ones among them see the movement as a battle for supremacy between the sexes.
I think these ones are in the minority, but just seem to be louder than the real ones because they're full of shiit. Many of them are bitter idiots and hopeless MISS ANGRIES. They're not feminists.

Note: I have not met one single sincere feminist in all my life. The ones I meet everyday are just the dregs of society who want respect when they have not earned it. They preach hate and support violence against men and are always incapable of tolerating opinions that contradict theirs.
At least you recognize that there are real, sincere feminists. You just haven't met one. But I've met quite a few. And I know there are a lot more out there.

Thank you for the mention, bro.
Thanks for responding.

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Re: Male Chivalry And Feminism: Are They Mutually Exclusive? by Tohzara(m): 9:35pm On Feb 14, 2018
greiboy:
Op you got the spelling of my moniker wrong
Sorry, don't mind me. Although, I still managed to summon your spirit sha. grin

on the question

it is a pretty tough one tbh. Partly because every relationship is unique in a way and also because the traditional roles of gender have changed over the centuries in relationships. it is also where the whole debate about equality vs equity becomes very intense

on one hand, showing male chivalry is a sort of anti equality stance or it portrays women as a weaker vessel, which feminists are not entirely ready to admit. I.e. opening the door, heavy lifting around the house
Yes, MALE CHIVALRY is incompatible with feminism and the very idea of gender equality. Demanding it as a matter of obligation, without any need or pressure to reciprocate on the part of the female is sexist and hypocritical, and isn't a position any true feminist should hold.

on the other end, the male chivalry is seen by many as compensation for the traditional roles women usually do in relationships i.e. cooking, taking care of children which feminist are fighting against.
Exactly. Getting rid of patriarchy means scrapping the entirety of the system and all its elements. There should be no room for preserving its benefit for women, after getting rid of its disadvantages for them, and its benefits for men.

Furthermore, it maybe seen as some sort of unfair advantage in a relationship for ladies demanding equality in relationships because it is a medieval(old) concept, or an ideology that was entertained in a period women were not allowed to vote or have an opinion.
Which is why it shouldn't be allowed anymore. There should be chivalry, not "male chivalry". There can be no such thing.

So it will look like they have kept the medieval concept that favored them while discarding the ones that don't
Exactly so. Getting rid of the disadvantages of patriarchy for their gender and retaining the benefits, while getting rid of the benefits for men, and insisting that they must carry out their patriarchial obligations. Imagine the fraud. grin

So to answer your question, it is a capital NO
You mean they can co-exist?

Still, ladies love the chivalry attitude or gesture in men, at leat most ladies do grin
The walking by her side at night to make sure she is safe

The opening the door for her

The holding her tight with those juicy hands in the cold weather grin sadly I don't have those hands

And so on


Hence, the argument for equity over equality.
It's not wrong to love and want it. They just need to realize it's not something to be expected from the male gender alone.

Many people believe fairness in all situations is the best way to deal with issues in relationships and the society in general as against equality for equality sake.

Yesssss. FAIRNESS in all situations. Isn't that the Golden Rule?

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Re: Male Chivalry And Feminism: Are They Mutually Exclusive? by Tohzara(m): 9:36pm On Feb 14, 2018

Re: Male Chivalry And Feminism: Are They Mutually Exclusive? by Rucheen(m): 11:05pm On Feb 14, 2018
They are not mutually exclusive
Re: Male Chivalry And Feminism: Are They Mutually Exclusive? by MissWrite(f): 6:02am On Feb 15, 2018
Tohzara:
MissWrite and Reina Farine, I agree with you guys 100%. Like you said, It shouldn't be gender-specific (as that would make it sexist), but I WAS gender-specific in my question because that's exactly what I wanted to talk about. I've edited the topic to make that clear. And I appreciate your responses.

I consider it hypocritical for a feminist to place emphasis on male chivalry and consider it a one-sided OBLIGATION. And I'm glad none of you tried making a case for it. There are "feminists" who consider this normal, and claim those of us who have problems with it are "petty". I think it's a normal thing to do, but it should be RECIPROCATED.



smiley I know you were being gender specific, which is why I started by addressing male-chivalry. If there's to be male-chivalry, then there should also be female-chivalry (two sides of a single coin). Like you said: reciprocation. Anyway, I fixed my earlier comment with this: it doesn't agree with the feminist ideology to insist on male-chivalry alone. If we want to be beneficiaries of chivalry (as social etiquette), then we must give it too.

But feminism isn't an excuse for men to stop being chivalrous. It's rather an invitation for women to be.

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Re: Male Chivalry And Feminism: Are They Mutually Exclusive? by Tohzara(m): 6:33am On Feb 15, 2018
MissWrite:



smiley I know you were being gender specific, which is why I started by addressing male-chivalry. If there's to be male-chivalry, then there should also be female-chivalry (two sides of a single coin). Like you said: reciprocation. Anyway, I fixed my earlier comment with this: it doesn't agree with the feminist ideology to insist on male-chivalry alone. If we want to be beneficiaries of chivalry (as social etiquette), then we must give it too.
Thank you. smiley

But feminism isn't an excuse for men to stop being chivalrous. It's rather an invitation for women to be.

Lol. Of course. What is the essence of the relationship if you don't show your partner gestures that make them feel special, important and loved? I absolutely concur. In my view, I "love you" has always meant the same thing as "You're SPECIAL to me, and I'm ready to do for you things others wouldn't readily do."

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Re: Male Chivalry And Feminism: Are They Mutually Exclusive? by Stillfire: 5:38pm On Feb 15, 2018
I find it absolutely absurd Nigerians talking about 'chivalry'. Does Chivalry exist in the Nigerian context? Are Nigerian men 'chivalrous' to Nigerian women? The origins of this word which has medieval knightly symbolism has absolutely nothing to do with Africans. Modern western applications of the word like 'holding the car door for women', "offering" your jackets when it's "cold", has absolutely nothing to do with us.

Nigerian men were/are NEVER chivalrous. Nigerian women have never benefited from this 'chivalry' culture. Where we come from women SERVE men and not the other way round. This topic is dead on arrival and not applicable in our context. It should be 'debated' on a Western board. They are the ones that know what they mean by their 'chivalry'.

However, The FEMINIST language is to give courtesy to everybody, i.e to show politeness in one's attitude and behavior toward others. Holding the doors for people (no gender specificity) is polite. That is the FEMINIST view. Very simple and clear.

And Sagamite, the word FEMINIST is a very good tool to weed off badly behaved Nigerian males from ones life. Very, very effective and less stressful. As long as evil customs engineered by the patriarchy exists and parades itself as culture, religion and tradition, feminism MUST co-exist with it. Yes, it's been a long while, just remembered this site exists, thought Seun would have killed this nuisance site eons ago. I am back to torment your soul. cool

7 Likes

Re: Male Chivalry And Feminism: Are They Mutually Exclusive? by Tohzara(m): 6:56pm On Feb 15, 2018
Stillfire:
I find it absolutely absurd Nigerians talking about 'chivalry'. Does Chivalry exist in the Nigerian context? Are Nigerian men 'chivalrous' to Nigerian women? The origins of this word which has medieval knightly symbolism has absolutely nothing to do with Africans. Modern western applications of the word like 'holding the car door for women', "offering" your jackets when it's "cold", has absolutely nothing to do with us.

Nigerian men were/are NEVER chivalrous. Nigerian women have never benefited from this 'chivalry' culture. Where we come from women SERVE men and not the other way round. This topic is dead on arrival and not applicable in our context. It should be 'debated' on a Western board. They are the ones that know what they mean by their 'chivalry'.
This part of your contribution is absolutely unnecessary and completely irrelevant to this discussion.

1) You do not know my race or nationality. You merely assumed. That wasn't really wise.

2) It makes zero sense to make generalizations such as this about Nigerian men. I am a "Nigerian man", and I'm 1 billion percent sure I do not fit into any of your ridiculous stereotypes.

3) Whether this issue is being discussed by Nigerians, the alleged lack of chivalry by Nigerian men notwithstanding, is irrelevant and meaningless, as I asked a question about chivalry and feminism as universally defined, and no where in my OP did I demand or require a consideration in the Nigerian context.

You typed all that for nothing, as you made no point.


However, The FEMINIST language is to give courtesy to everybody, i.e to show politeness in one's attitude and behavior toward others. Holding the doors for people (no gender specificity) is polite. That is the FEMINIST view. Very simple and clear.
WHAT How is feminism about courtesy and politeness? I thought feminism is about equal rights regardless of gender? Where did you get your idea from? Feminism doesn't mandate courtesy and politeness, and has no such values as its core doctrine or primary focus, so there's nothing simple or clear about this. A sexist male can show courtesy to a woman he considers a weaker vessel, and that in no way makes him a feminist.

1 Like

Re: Male Chivalry And Feminism: Are They Mutually Exclusive? by Nobody: 8:05pm On Feb 15, 2018

the word FEMINIST is a very good tool to weed off badly behaved Nigerian males from ones life. Very, very effective and less stressful. As long as evil customs engineered by the patriarchy exists and parades itself as culture, religion and tradition, feminism MUST co-exist with it.


word

1 Like

Re: Male Chivalry And Feminism: Are They Mutually Exclusive? by Stillfire: 8:32pm On Feb 15, 2018
Tohzara:
This part of your contribution is absolutely unnecessary and completely irrelevant to this discussion.

1) You do not know my race or nationality. You merely assumed. That wasn't really wise.


Whether you are Nigerian or an Iraqi, THIS IS A NIGERIAN BLOG. And things will be argued as applicable to the Nigerian context. What exactly is chivalry in any Nigerian language? And how is it 'practiced'? What are the codes and conducts of Nigerian male 'chivalrous' acts to women?

2) It makes zero sense to make generalizations such as this about Nigerian men. I am a "Nigerian man", and I'm 1 billion percent sure I do not fit into any of your ridiculous stereotypes.

Stereotype you? Lmao! It is NOT a 'generalization' when majority can't fathom that something as fickle as cooking is not a genetic disposition to only females. Our culture has never enforced 'chivalry'. That is Nigeria's MORES AND NORM. One Nigerian male with the semblance of 'Jesus Christ' out of 90 million can NEVER be statistically significant.

3) Whether this issue is being discussed by Nigerians, the alleged lack of chivalry by Nigerian men notwithstanding, is irrelevant and meaningless, as I asked a question about chivalry and feminism as universally defined, and no where in my OP did I demand or require a consideration in the Nigerian context.

You typed all that for nothing, as you made no point.

It is VERY relevant to the discussion. Am I Western? No. Am I on a Western board? No. Is this a Nigerian website? Yes!

WHAT How is feminism about courtesy and politeness? I thought feminism is about equal rights regardless of gender? Where did you get your idea from? Feminism doesn't mandate courtesy and politeness, and has no such values as its core doctrine or primary focus, so there's nothing simple or clear about this. A sexist male can show courtesy to a woman he considers a weaker vessel, and that in no way makes him a feminist.

You had better NOT twist my words. The FEMINIST position to your nonsense thread is to provide such courtesies or 'chivalry' to both sexes or don't do it at all. To provide 'ordinary' courtesies should NEVER be gender specific.

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Re: Male Chivalry And Feminism: Are They Mutually Exclusive? by Tohzara(m): 11:29pm On Feb 15, 2018
This has got to be the dumbest post I've read in a while. Let me show you.

Stillfire:


Whether you are Nigerian or an Iraqi, THIS IS A NIGERIAN BLOG. And things will be argued as applicable to the Nigerian context.
Seriously? Do you know how dumb you sound now? So because it's a Nigerian forum, everything must be discussed as applicable to the Nigerian context? When did you make this buffoonish rule? So even if it's Ethopians, Indians, Europeans, Ghanians, South Africans or Americans that are discussing it, it must be as applicable to the Nigerian context? This is a really fücked up way of being stupid.

What exactly is chivalry in any Nigerian language?
What exactly is nationalism in any Nigerian language? What exactly is communism in any Nigerian language? What exactly is feminism in any Nigerian language? You don't have any sense.

And how is it 'practiced'? What are the codes and conducts of Nigerian male 'chivalrous' acts to women?
I do not know about "codes and conducts". All I do know is that chivalry as expected/applied to the male folk has got to do with being courteous and protective towards women, treating them gently and with care. That's the main idea. There are no "codes and conducts" as such, as they would be subjective.

Stereotype you? Lmao! It is NOT a 'generalization' when majority can't fathom that something as fickle as cooking is not a genetic disposition to only females. Our culture has never enforced 'chivalry'. That is Nigeria's MORES AND NORM. One Nigerian male with the semblance of 'Jesus Christ' out of 90 million can NEVER be statistically significant.
Enough of your bullshiit. Did the mediaval knights who claimed to be beacons of chivalry cook for their women? Weren't they sexist motherfucking asholes too? Being protective of women and considering them creatures to be handled courteously is itself founded upon sexism, and subscribing to gender roles----considering women to be meant only for the kitchen---isn't incompatible with chivalry. Sexist men can be chivalrous. You just keep yarning crap.

It is VERY relevant to the discussion. Am I Western? No. Am I on a Western board? No. Is this a Nigerian website? Yes!
Bullcrap. Anything can be discussed on this forum. This statement is absolutely senseless and morönic.

You had better NOT twist my words. The FEMINIST position to your nonsense thread is to provide such courtesies or 'chivalry' to both sexes or don't do it at all. To provide 'ordinary' courtesies should NEVER be gender specific.
What is the entire point of this thread? Isn't it to discuss whether demanding for chivalry from the male folk as a matter of obligation without expecting any from the women is sexist and incompatible with feminism? Isn't that what you just confirmed right here? You answered "NO", and still senselessly believe yourself to be arguing against the point of my thread by calling it "nonsense". Olodo.
Re: Male Chivalry And Feminism: Are They Mutually Exclusive? by Nobody: 3:34am On Feb 16, 2018
You guys don't understand what feminism really means. Its more of gender equity, that both genders should be allowed to do the same things/have the same opportunities and privileges, and above all both genders should be respected. Feminism isn't saying men and women have equal physical strengths, it's saying men are physically stronger, but that doesn't mean women are inferior. Basically feminism is saying women should be treated with dignity and respect, and should be appreciated (where applicable).
The fact that a woman desires to be treated with respect and dignity doesn't stop her from desiring to experience the feeling of being loved. What most guys don't understand is, even if a woman is a billionaire, she'd still like to feel loved/taken care of, its psychological.
Men tend to enjoy the feeling of taking care of or protecting a lady, while ladies enjoy the feeling of being taken care of. Its a naturally occurring psychological symbiosis
Re: Male Chivalry And Feminism: Are They Mutually Exclusive? by Tohzara(m): 6:07am On Feb 16, 2018
UltraMax:
You guys don't understand what feminism really means. Its more of gender equity, that both genders should be allowed to do the same things/have the same opportunities and privileges, and above all both genders should be respected. Feminism isn't saying men and women have equal physical strengths, it's saying men are physically stronger, but that doesn't mean women are inferior. Basically feminism is saying women should be treated with dignity and respect, and should be appreciated (where applicable).
The fact that a woman desires to be treated with respect and dignity doesn't stop her from desiring to experience the feeling of being loved. What most guys don't understand is, even if a woman is a billionaire, she'd still like to feel loved/taken care of, its psychological.
Men tend to enjoy the feeling of taking care of or protecting a lady, while ladies enjoy the feeling of being taken care of. Its a naturally occurring psychological symbiosis
Some men also enjoy the feeling of being taken care of, while there are ladies who believe they can do without it. We've evolved up to a point that our behaviours, desires and choices are not necessarily determined by nature. Unlike animals, we can defy our natural instincts and can live without surrendering to them. It's the reason why some people can choose to become celibate, or decide not to have children, and still live happily regardless.

The entire point is that I should want to protect and take care of you because I love you, and you're special to me, or simply because I want to, and NOT BECAUSE YOU'RE A WOMAN and there's a way women are supposed to be treated. It's the same way men naturally have monumental egos, and want the female folk to worship, revere and respect them----to be submissive. That it's a natural impulse doesn't mean women should do it to please them and make them feel good simply because they're women and that's what they're obligated or meant to do, as that would be sexist.

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Re: Male Chivalry And Feminism: Are They Mutually Exclusive? by tunjilana: 6:55am On Feb 16, 2018
My take is, in a relationship, chivalry(male and female) should exist. you both should look out for each other. Outside a relationship, be chivalrous to people because they have earned it or deserve it, not just cos they are of a specific gender. You dont get into a full bus and expect a man to stand up for you just cos you are female. Then to the lady who feels men are not chivalrous, who feel until they cook they aint doing enough, For majority of Nigerian men in relationships, we all know providing is for the male.Infact most women either keep their earnings away or do next to nothing and yet still get their needs met.Yet this women feel it is slavery to cook, clean and take care of their partners. Is this man a slave too?...If you want to be taken care of nd dont care if your partner is taken care of, you re not a feminist, you are a fraud

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Re: Male Chivalry And Feminism: Are They Mutually Exclusive? by Tohzara(m): 7:13am On Feb 16, 2018
tunjilana:
My take is, in a relationship, chivalry(male and female) should exist. you both should look out for each other. Outside a relationship, be chivalrous to people because they have earned it or deserve it, not just cos they are of a specific gender. You dont get into a full bus and expect a man to stand up for you just cos you are female. Then to the lady who feels men are not chivalrous, who feel until they cook they aint doing enough, For majority of Nigerian men in relationships, we all know providing is for the male.Infact most women either keep their earnings away or do next to nothing and yet still get their needs met.Yet this women feel it is slavery to cook, clean and take care of their partners. Is this man a slave too?...If you want to be taken care of nd dont care if your partner is taken care of, you re not a feminist, you are a fraud
Absolutely right! This is my entire point. You just summarised it quite perfectly.
Re: Male Chivalry And Feminism: Are They Mutually Exclusive? by monex(m): 7:58am On Feb 16, 2018
ReinaFarine:
Sagamite is quite pained with the word feminism.... Well even though the word has been bastardised and used as a term to support man-hating and pseudo-abuse against the male gender, as long as the dictionary definition still reads a person who believes in the social, political and economic equality of the sexes, I AM A FEMINIST. I don't know but you can check the definition of who a Nazi is, who an Alqaeda sympathizer is or whatever, The definition of the term kind of describe who the person is and what they support. So until the term gets so bastardized that the definition changes in the dictionary, I am a feminist.

is it ok for people to believe in socially (at least non-biologically) construed gender roles (although force no one to take up a particular gender role) and still call themselves feminists?
Re: Male Chivalry And Feminism: Are They Mutually Exclusive? by ReinaFarine: 8:09am On Feb 16, 2018
monex:


is it ok for people to believe in socially (at least non-biologically) construed gender roles (although force no one to take up a particular gender role) and still call themselves feminists?
Socially, no. As long as the individual is not hindered by biological organs like hormonal differences, sexual organs and ish... Every individual should not be compelled or put into a box and made to assume a role simply because a majority of that gender have 'fun' doing that and society expects it.

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Re: Male Chivalry And Feminism: Are They Mutually Exclusive? by monex(m): 9:15am On Feb 16, 2018
ReinaFarine:

Socially, no. As long as the individual is not hindered by biological organs like hormonal differences, sexual organs and ish... Every individual should not be compelled or put into a box and made to assume a role simply because a majority of that gender have 'fun' doing that and society expects it.

i did not say anything about coercion or being put in a box.

The believe in gender roles does not foreclose the belief that every one has a right and should be given an opportunity to be what they want irrespective of the gender expectations. Most of us innately have expectations of others based on their members of a social classification (if not gender, then religion, race, tribe etc.). There are gender differences that are biological and there are those that are socially constructed or extrapolated from our understanding of the biological differences.

I do not think it is wrong to think along these gender roles so far as one doesn't deny anyone the opportunity to go against these gender expectations. For instance, I would not deem a lady as oppressive for expecting me to ask her out or propose although that is a socially constructed gender obligation.
Re: Male Chivalry And Feminism: Are They Mutually Exclusive? by ReinaFarine: 9:16am On Feb 16, 2018
monex:


i did not say anything about coercion or being put in a box.

The believe in gender roles does not foreclose the belief that every one has a right and should be given an opportunity to be what they want irrespective of the gender expectations. Most of us innately have expectations of others based on their members of a social classification (if not gender, then religion, race, tribe etc.). There are gender differences that are biological and there are those that are socially constructed or extrapolated from our understanding of the biological differences.

I do not think it is wrong to think along these gender roles so far as one doesn't deny anyone the opportunity to go against these gender expectations. For instance, I would not deem a lady as oppressive for expecting me to ask her out or propose although that is a socially constructed gender obligation.
Will you deem it too forward for a lady to ask you out?
Re: Male Chivalry And Feminism: Are They Mutually Exclusive? by EOOJ(m): 10:42am On Feb 16, 2018
MissWrite:



Yes... As usual... I want to be like u in writing wen o grow up o grin
Re: Male Chivalry And Feminism: Are They Mutually Exclusive? by monex(m): 2:03pm On Feb 16, 2018
ReinaFarine:

Will you deem it too forward for a lady to ask you out?

she has a right to go against the gender role society has constructed for her and she is hence not oppressive.

Personally I would not deem it forward but even I did, it will not take away her right to ask a guy out first or to propose to a guy.

I have a right to think what I think about her but not to discriminate or deny her opportunities due to her belief or her going against her percieved gender role boundaries.

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