italo:

OK, since you insist I'll just go straight to your first point. I'll show you how the Greek word 'hen', when used in the Bible doesn't necessarily mean "unity in purpose" like you said but sometimes means 'single' or 'single being'. Pls read these Bible verses below.

"since indeed God is one [hen]" Romans 3:30
"there is no God but one [hen]" 1 Corinthians 8:4
"yet for us there is but one [hen] God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one [hen] Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him." 1 Corinthians 8:6
"Now a mediator is not for one party only; whereas God is only one [hen]." Galatians 3:20
"There is one [hen] body and one [hen] Spirit, one [hen] hope, one [hen] Lord, one [hen] faith, one [hen] baptism, one [hen] God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all." Ephesians 4:4-6
"For there is one [hen] God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus," 1 Timothy 2:5
"You believe that God is one [hen]. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19

So since the rest of your argument on "study no. 1" is based on the your perception that 'hen' (as used in the Bible) exclusively means unity of purpose and I have proved otherwise, can we - without wasting time - nullify all these:

Thank you very much. On to the next one, right?

TNX FOR YOUR MATURE RESPONCE,BUT U ARE IGNORING/MISSING OUT TWO POINTS ABOVE WHICH ARE COMPLIMENTARILY SURPORTING MY POINTS:
FIRSTLY I SAID IN THE MARGINAL NOTES IN NEW AMERICAN STANDARD BIBLE (NASB),THE SPECIFIC MEANING OF THIS WORD WITH REFERENCE TO THIS VERSE IS UNITY IN PURPOSE, BUT IF U INSIST ITS NOT DOES THE BELOW VERSES MEAN JESUS HAD DECLARED THE TWELVE DISCIPLES TO BE "CO-EQUAL" IN STATUS, LIKE HIM OR LIKE HIS  FATHER.
"And the glory which Thou hast given me, I have given to them (disciples); that they may be one, just as we are one." 
   (John 17:22). 

Jesus also said: "Holy Father, protect them in your name that you have given me, so that they may be one, as we are one." 
    (John 17:11).
SECONDLY IF JESUS WAS GOD WHY DID HE MODIFIED HIS STATEMENT TO CLEARIFY ISSUE WHEN THE JEWS PICK UP STONE TO KILL HIM.
HE SPECIFICALLY SAID THE FOLLOWING
A) HE WAS "SANCTIFIED" BY GOD.
(THIS ACT CANNOT BE PERFORMED UNLESS THERE ARE "TWO DISTINCTLY INDEPENDENT ENTITIES OR PARTIES". ONE PARTY WAS DOING THE ACT OF "SANCTIFYING" WHILE ANOTHER WAS BEING "SANCTIFIED".
B) HE WAS "SENT " BY GOD.
(THIS TEXT PROVES; ONE ENTITY WAS "THE SENDER", WHILE THE OTHER WAS "THE SENT".
C) HE WAS "SON" OF GOD.
FROM THESE U WILL SEE THAT HE IS SIMPLY SAYING I AM A CHILD OF GOD.PLEASE READ PSALM 82:6 AND 7, FOR THE DETAILS
RESPOND SO WE CAN CONTINUE,TNX AGAIN.

100 verses that show God and Jesus to be different:

Matthew 27:46

Mark 1:24

Mark 10:18

Mark 15:34

Mark 16:19

Luke 2:52

Luke 6:12

Luke 18:19

John 3:2

John 8:42

John 8:54

John 9:3

John 13:31

John 14:1*

John 17:3

John 20:17

Acts 2:22

Acts 2:32

Acts 2:36

Acts 3:13

Acts 4:10

Acts 5:30

Acts 7:55

Acts 10:36

Acts 10:38

Acts 13:23

Acts 20:21

Romans 1:7

Romans 1:8

Romans 2:16

Romans 3:22

Romans 4:24

Romans 5:1

Romans 5:11

Romans 5:15

Romans 5:17

Romans 6:23

Romans 7:25

Romans 8:34

Romans 10:9

Romans 15:5

Romans 15:6

Romans 16:27

1 Corinthians 1:3

1 Corinthians 1:9

1 Corinthians 1:30

1 Corinthians 8:6

1 Corinthians 15:57

2 Corinthians 1:2

2 Corinthians 1:3

2 Corinthians 11:31

2 Corinthians 13:14

Galatians 1:1

Galatians 1:3

Ephesians 1:2

Ephesians 1:3

Ephesians 1:17

Ephesians 2:6

Ephesians 6:23

Philippians 1:2

Philippians 2:11

Colossians 1:3*

Colossians 3:17

1 Thessalonians 1:1

1 Thessalonians 1:3

1 Thessalonians 3:11

1 Thessalonians 3:13

1 Thessalonians 4:14

1 Thessalonians 5:9

2 Thessalonians 1:1

2 Thessalonians 1:2

2 Thessalonians 1:12

2 Thessalonians 2:16

1 Timothy 1:1

1 Timothy 1:2

1 Timothy 2:5

1 Timothy 5:21

1 Timothy 6:3

2 Timothy 1:1

2 Timothy 1:2

2 Timothy 4:1

Titus 1:4

Titus 2:13

Philemon 1:3

Hebrews 13:20

James 1:1

1 Peter 1:2

1 Peter 2:5

2 Peter 1:1

2 Peter 1:2

1 John 5:1*

1 John 5:20

2 John 1:3

Jude 1:1

Jude 1:4

Jude 1:21

Jude 1:25

Revelation 1:1

Revelation 1:2

Revelation 14:12

Matthew 3:17 (English-NIV)
"And a voice from heaven said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased"

If the Father is God, then who is Jesus and where did he come from ?
Again the scriptures are very clear with the identity of Jesus.
Jesus asked this very question himself to Peter and Jesus commended Peter for his answer, in fact Jesus built his Church on this Truth and it is a pillar of the foundation that was laid by Jesus and the Apostles. To preach that Jesus is not the the Son of God and the Christ is to preach another gospel.

In Matthew 16:13-17 (English-NIV) it says
13 When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples,
"Who do people say the Son of Man is?"
14 They replied, "Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets."
15 "But what about you?" he asked. "Who do you say I am?"
16 Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
17 Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven.
18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.

Notice that Peter didn't say to Jesus, "You are God".
If Jesus were God then this would have been the perfect opportunity to declare that.
Many people today given this opportunity would probably declare that Jesus is God. So why didn't Peter just say that Jesus was God as most who believe in the Trinity would have. Because this revelation didn't come from man, but from the Father.

Even Satan didn't refer to Jesus as God but rather the Son of God.

See Matthew 4:3-6 (English-NIV)
3 The tempter came to him and said, "If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread."
4 Jesus answered, "It is written: `Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God."
5 Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple.
6 "If you are the Son of God," he said, "throw yourself down. For it is written: "`He will command his angels
concerning you, and they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.'

If we say that Jesus is one of the equal persons that make up God, then we are not speaking the truth, rather we are following the doctrines of man and demon. Jesus taught us clearly that his God is his God and that he is greater than himself. To honor Jesus is to believe the truth about him and believe his own words.
John 14:28 (English-NIV) confirms this .

"You heard me say, `I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the[b] Father is greater than I.[/b]

nice work 123jml

@italo am still waiting ,

Even tho Jesus is highly exaulted, he did not make himself equal to God.
If Jesus were to be worshipd, what did he tell a man that was about to
worship him, n why?

He never give glory to himself rather to the Almighty God.
Jesus said "he did not com to do his will but he dat hav sent him.

JESUS IS NOT A DISOBIDIENT N PROUD SON LIKE SATAN
WHO CAME TO DRAG POSITION WITH GOD

Jesus was born by a woman n he lived on earth.
God was not created while jesus was .
God is a spirit and he said no one can see him.
How den can God a spirit be born by woman,
seen n lived with humans wen he said no man can
see me n live.

WE LOVE JESUS, HONOR HIM N APPRIATES HIM AS OUR LORD
N SAVIOR THRU WHOM WE HAV RELATION WITH THE ALMIGHTY GOD

Get it into ur head, God is a spirit,
he does not change, he is the same now and forever

TO GOD ALL WORSHIP,GLORY N HONOR MUST GO TO

DOES THE BELOW VERSES MEAN JESUS HAD DECLARED THE TWELVE DISCIPLES TO BE "CO-EQUAL" IN STATUS, LIKE HIM OR LIKE HIS  FATHER.
"And the glory which Thou hast given me, I have given to them (disciples); that they may be one, just as we are one."  
  (John 17:22).  

Jesus also said: "Holy Father, protect them in your name that you have given me, so that they may be one, as we are one".
   (John 17:11).

Of course not. Jesus didn't say in these passages; ', that they may be one with us(Father and Son)' or ', that we all(Father, Son, Apostles) may be one. He meant, 'that the apostles - and in extension, those who believe the apostles - may be one, as he(Jesus) and The Father are one'. And this is beautifully expantiated on in one of the verses I quoted earlier:

"There is one body and one Spirit, one hope, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all." Ephesians 4:4-6

, And that is what Jesus wanted for his flock. That we should have one faith, one hope, one baptism; that we be one body and submit to one Lord, one God.

Now, coming to the second part of your study;

SECONDLY IF JESUS WAS GOD WHY DID HE MODIFIED HIS STATEMENT TO CLEARIFY ISSUE WHEN THE JEWS PICK UP STONE TO KILL HIM.
HE SPECIFICALLY SAID THE FOLLOWING
A) HE WAS  "SANCTIFIED" BY GOD.  
          (THIS ACT CANNOT BE PERFORMED UNLESS THERE ARE "TWO DISTINCTLY INDEPENDENT ENTITIES OR PARTIES". ONE PARTY WAS DOING THE ACT OF "SANCTIFYING" WHILE ANOTHER WAS BEING "SANCTIFIED".
B) HE WAS "SENT " BY GOD.  
         (THIS TEXT PROVES; ONE ENTITY WAS "THE SENDER", WHILE THE OTHER WAS "THE SENT".
C) HE WAS "SON" OF GOD.
FROM THESE U WILL SEE THAT HE IS SIMPLY SAYING I AM A CHILD OF GOD.PLEASE READ PSALM 82:6 AND 7, FOR THE DETAILS

First of all, I want to say that christians know that Jesus was "sanctified by God", "sent by God" and is the "Son of God"; but we also know that Jesus is God. So this part of your post isn't rily contrary to what christians know. The only part that contrasts what christians know is this:  

(THIS ACT CANNOT BE PERFORMED UNLESS THERE ARE "TWO DISTINCTLY INDEPENDENT ENTITIES OR PARTIES". ONE PARTY WAS DOING THE ACT OF "SANCTIFYING" WHILE ANOTHER WAS BEING "SANCTIFIED".

I refute it because there are so many parts of the Bible that say that Jesus is the son of God and there are so many parts of the Bible that say that Jesus is God but there is no part of the Bible that says Jesus is not God. So you cannot say that Jesus is not God by showing me the parts that say he is the Son of God just like you cannot prove that a man is not a banker because you have proof that he is a musician. He could be both. And Jesus is both Son of God and God himself. And that is a mystery of faith that can only be understood by those who believe, not necessarily by the wisest scholars(now, remember I warned you that you cannot understand the Bible without faith). Even Jesus shows this in Matt. 11: 25, 'At that time Jesus said in reply, "I give praise to you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, for although you have hidden these things from the wise and the learned you have revealed them to the childlike"'.

Pls allow me to expantiate, not only on that little part, but on the whole of John 10.

1 'In all truth I tell you, anyone who does not enter the sheepfold through the gate, but climbs in some other way, is a thief and a bandit.  
2 He who enters through the gate is the shepherd of the flock;  
3 the gatekeeper lets him in, the sheep hear his voice, one by one he calls his own sheep and leads them out.  
4 When he has brought out all those that are his, he goes ahead of them, and the sheep follow because they know his voice.  
5 They will never follow a stranger, but will run away from him because they do not recognise the voice of strangers.'

Here we see as Jesus begins to describe the Shepherd to the Jews. Take note that the Jews of that time knew the scriptures off hand so they knew the significance of the word 'shepherd'. They knew God as their Shepherd. Psalm 23: 1-4 says "Yahweh is my shepherd, I lack nothing. In grassy meadows he lets me lie. By tranquil streams he leads me to restore my spirit. He guides me in paths of saving justice as befits his name. Even were I to walk in a ravine as dark as death I should fear no danger, for you are at my side. Your staff and your crook are there to soothe me. Psalm 80:1 says "Shepherd of Israel, listen, you who lead Joseph like a flock, enthroned on the winged creatures, shine forth.

6 Jesus told them this parable but they failed to understand what he was saying to them.  
7 So Jesus spoke to them again: In all truth I tell you, I am the gate of the sheepfold.  
8 All who have come before me are thieves and bandits, but the sheep took no notice of them.  
9 I am the gate. Anyone who enters through me will be safe: such a one will go in and out and will find pasture.  
10 The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. I have come so that they may have life and have it to the full.

Now, since the Jews didn't understand what the parable meant, Jesus proclaims himself clearly as the Gate through which the shepherd gets to the sheep. Surely now, they must have begun to get his message.

11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd lays down his life for his sheep.  
12 The hired man, since he is not the shepherd and the sheep do not belong to him, abandons the sheep as soon as he sees a wolf coming, and runs away, and then the wolf attacks and scatters the sheep;  
13 he runs away because he is only a hired man and has no concern for the sheep.  
14 I am the good shepherd; I know my own and my own know me,  
15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for my sheep.  
16 And there are other sheep I have that are not of this fold, and I must lead these too. They too will listen to my voice, and there will be only one flock, one shepherd.  
17 The Father loves me, because I lay down my life in order to take it up again.  
18 No one takes it from me; I lay it down of my own free will, and as I have power to lay it down, so I have power to take it up again; and this is the command I have received from my Father.  
19 These words caused a fresh division among the Jews.  
20 Many said, 'He is possessed, he is raving; why do you listen to him?'  
21 Others said, 'These are not the words of a man possessed by a devil: could a devil open the eyes of the blind?'  

But he didn't stop there, in addition to being the Gate, he calls himself the Good Shepherd. He is both. Just like He's both the Son of God and God himself; He's the Gate and the Shepherd. These words made some of the Jews uncomfortable so they dismissed him as possesed or crazy while others started to believe that ther just might be something special about this 'man'.

22 It was the time of the feast of Dedication in Jerusalem. It was winter,  
23 and Jesus was in the Temple walking up and down in the Portico of Solomon.  
24 The Jews gathered round him and said, 'How much longer are you going to keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us openly.'  
25 Jesus replied: I have told you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father's name are my witness;  
26 but you do not believe, because you are no sheep of mine.  
27 The sheep that belong to me listen to my voice; I know them and they follow me.  
28 I give them eternal life; they will never be lost and no one will ever steal them from my hand.  
29 The Father, for what he has given me, is greater than anyone, and no one can steal anything from the Father's hand.  
30 The Father and I are one.
31 The Jews fetched stones to stone him,  

Still perplexed about Jesus - like many are today, they asked again,"are you the Christ(anointed one)?" Jesus then tells them plainly how none of his sheep couldn't be stolen from him - none could be stolen from the Father. 'He and the Father are one' - He says. Surely now they had had enough of the 'rubbish'.
 

32 so Jesus said to them, 'I have shown you many good works from my Father; for which of these are you stoning me?'  
33 The Jews answered him, 'We are stoning you, not for doing a good work, but for blasphemy; though you are only a man, you claim to be God.'  
34 Jesus answered: Is it not written in your Law: I said, you are gods?  
35 So it uses the word 'gods' of those people to whom the word of God was addressed -- and scripture cannot be set aside.  
36 Yet to someone whom the Father has consecrated and sent into the world you say, 'You are blaspheming' because I said, 'I am Son of God.'  
37 If I am not doing my Father's work, there is no need to believe me;  
38 but if I am doing it, then even if you refuse to believe in me, at least believe in the work I do; then you will know for certain that the Father is in me and I am in the Father.  
39 They again wanted to arrest him then, but he eluded their clutches.  
40 He went back again to the far side of the Jordan to the district where John had been baptising at first and he stayed there.  
41 Many people who came to him said, 'John gave no signs, but all he said about this man was true';  
42 and many of them believed in him.

Yes, he told them he was consecrated and sent by God as 'Son of God' but this was in no way meant to modify his statement because he goes on to say 'He and the Father were in each other', angering the Jews again and they tried to arrest him. Besides, note that the Jews didn't take lightly to anyone claiming equality with God or even comparing himself to God in any way - and Jesus knew that as a Jew himself. So saying he was God was as bad an offence as saying he was Son of God. As a Jew, if he really wanted to exonerate himself, he would have denied any claim of divinity but to say that he was the Son of God was just rubbing salt on the injury. The Jews believed - even to this day - that God cannot have a son.

I'm sorry Pimpu for keeping you waiting for long. I had one hell of a week.

guys we don`t really need to argue on what does not what it?everybody can`t believe in the same thing.so if you want to show that what you believe in is better than mine,give me the proves as chakula did.and for those that want to nullify his prove,bring out your own evidence too rather than turning a religious forum to a site to display your abusive talents.NOBODY IS VERY SURE OF WHERE HE/SHE IS GOING IN THE HEREAFTER,GOD IS THE ALL KNOWING AND THE JUDGE OVER THERE.

It is apparent that the person that post this topic is in DANGER as fanatics are already hiring top-guns and IT professtionals to track. Anyway they shall not succed. on the topic one is flumoxed to find that there is a complete lack of understanding on basic christain theology, why should a religion claim that it is monotheist but yet still believe in three-gods, and the funny thing is that one of the gods sends the other two on errands and mission, this is clearly POLYTHEISM plain and simple.

tnx for ur response now we can move on.

Jesus, on whom be peace, believed in this, for he also stressed it in Luke 4:8.  And Jesus too fell on his face and worshipped God (see Matthew 26:39). Jesus worshipped God (see Hebrews 5:7).  Jesus will remain forever subservient to God (see 1 Corinthians 15:28).The evidance provided here were qouted from the bible,however, let someone proof me with the above verses wrong.

Jesus, on whom be peace, believed in this, for he also stressed it in Luke 4:8. And Jesus too fell on his face and worshipped God (see Matthew 26:39). Jesus worshipped God (see Hebrews 5:7). Jesus will remain forever subservient to God (see 1 Corinthians 15:28).The evidance provided here were qouted from the bible,however, let someone proof me with the above verses wrong.

Jesus is Son of God, he is the suffering servant, but he is also God. Every christian knows this. Now, from your post above, you haven't told us anything we don't know. Why should we prove you wrong on something we believe? Say something we don't know, or believe!

italo:

Jesus is Son of God,  but he is also God. Every christian knows this.

Don't says every christians agreed with jesus as a god some were not believed with him as a god and the bible made it clear that at times of weakness angels strengthened Jesus;however, God does not need to be strengthened.

Luke 22:43 “An angel from heaven appeared to him and strengthened him
[in the garden of Gethsemane].”

Men need to be strengthened; God does not because God is All-Powerful.If Jesus had to be strengthened, he must not be God.However,i would like to have your evidence for the above qoute.

Jesus is not God. God cannot die or be killed. There is only one God. Saying he is the Son of God and God makes no sense whatsoever. People are really good at being poets. Those that says that God is three in one the father, God the son, and God the holy spirit no not what they speak. if u take one away from the other that one is 1/3 out of the three and cant be anything else. God is only 1 god.

Jesus never said he was God. and if you needed to believe he was God to reach salvation he would have made it bright and clear by saying "I AM GOD" many times. Also Jesus never said anywhere in the Bible, im not talking about the other stuff said by paul because paul was not of God, that he he came to die for the sins of the world. He said I solely came to save to lost tribe of Israel. The israelites went away from God's teachings so Jesus was sent to bring them back to the Word of God but the Jews rejected him and had him crucified. Even up till this day the Jews still reject Jesus. Jesus was the messiah to the Jews/The Jewish Messiah.

Go in the Bible And pull out the Verse( which is in red, jesus' words are in red) where Jesus says he came to die for the sins of the world and so that all will be forgiven no matter what as long as they confess Jesus. Show the verse that says trinity(God the father, God the son, and God the holy spirit) and dont give me the verse where it say baptize in the name of the father,son, and holy spirit. I said God THE father, God THE son, and God THE holy spirit.

chyz:

Jesus is not God. God cannot die or be killed. There is only one God. Saying he is the Son of God and God makes no sense whatsoever. People are really good at being poets. Those that says that God is three in one the father, God the son, and God the holy spirit no not what they speak. if u take one away from the other that one is 1/3 out of the three and cant be anything else. God is only 1 god.

Jesus never said he was God. and if you needed to believe he was God to reach salvation he would have made it bright and clear by saying "I AM GOD" many times. Also Jesus never said anywhere in the Bible, im not talking about the other stuff said by paul because paul was not of God, that he he came to die for the sins of the world. He said I solely came to save to lost tribe of Israel. The israelites went away from God's teachings so Jesus was sent to bring them back to the Word of God but the Jews rejected him and had him crucified. Even up till this day the Jews still reject Jesus. Jesus was the messiah to the Jews/The Jewish Messiah.

Go in the Bible And pull out the Verse( which is in red, jesus' words are in red) where Jesus says he came to die for the sins of the world and so that all will be forgiven no matter what as long as they confess Jesus. Show the verse that says trinity(God the father, God the son, and God the holy spirit) and dont give me the verse where it say baptize in the name of the father,son, and holy spirit. I said God THE father, God THE son, and God THE holy spirit.

HHMNN NO BE SMALL THING WOOO.

Verse No. 2
Jesus said: "He who has seen me has seen the Father."
                                        (John 14:9).
Perceived by the "man of extraordinary faith": This verse proves Jesus was God.

Study No. 2
One day to prove a point, Jesus picked up a child and said to his disciples; "Whoever receives this child  in my name receives me; and whoever receives me receives Him who sent me;" (Luke 9:48).

This specific act of Christ Jesus and/or his explicit statement concerning this Child does not make; the Child and the Christ, co-equal or one in status.

The next plausible question would be did Jesus admit he too was sent by God just as he was sending the Child? The answer is found several verses. Here are two:

Jesus said: ", and that I do nothing on my own, but I speak these things as the Father instructed me."  John 8:28.

Jesus said: ", I have not spoken on my own, but the Father who sent me has himself given me a commandment about what to say and what to speak."  John 12:49.

Study Supportive Passage:
Jesus said; "Truly, truly, I say to you, a slave is not greater than his master; neither one who is sent greater than the one
who sent him." (John 13:16).

MY QUESTION ARE
1-FROM THE FIRST QUOTE (John 14:9). DOES IT MEAN THAT THE CHILD AND CHRIST ARE CO-EQUAL OR ONE IN STATUS.

2-DID JESUS ADMIT HE TOO WAS SENT BY GOD?

Pimpu:

Verse No. 2
Jesus said: "He who has seen me has seen the Father."
                                        (John 14:9).
Perceived by the "man of extraordinary faith": This verse proves Jesus was God.

Study No. 2
One day to prove a point, Jesus picked up a child and said to his disciples; "Whoever receives this child  in my name receives me; and whoever receives me receives Him who sent me;" (Luke 9:48).

This specific act of Christ Jesus and/or his explicit statement concerning this Child does not make; the Child and the Christ, co-equal or one in status.

The next plausible question would be did Jesus admit he too was sent by God just as he was sending the Child? The answer is found several verses. Here are two:

Jesus said: ", and that I do nothing on my own, but I speak these things as the Father instructed me."  John 8:28.

Jesus said: ", I have not spoken on my own, but the Father who sent me has himself given me a commandment about what to say and what to speak."  John 12:49.

Study Supportive Passage:
Jesus said; "Truly, truly, I say to you, a slave is not greater than his master; neither one who is sent greater than the one
who sent him." (John 13:16).

Your examples are only proving you wrong. I have no idea why you posted them to refute what i said. And he never says he's God. Show where he says in plain words "I AM GOD"

Phillipians 2:10 At the name of Jesus every knee should bow of things in heaven and in earth and things under the earth.

@chyz WE ARE ON THE SAME SIDE OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, HE WAS NOT GOD,HE IS NOT GOD AND HE CAN NEVER BE GOD.PEACE

^^^ Oh my fault my brother lol. God Bless. Peace

jesus said "i and my father are one" he also said "if you have seen me, you have seen the father", jesus was God in HUMAN flesh, that is why he was born, seen, felt, ate, etc, JESUS IS GOD

@ Chakula,

Don't says every christians agreed with jesus as a god some were not believed with him as a god and the bible made it clear that at times of weakness angels strengthened Jesus;however, God does not need to be strengthened.

I believe I have already answered that pending when you have something new to say.

Luke 22:43 “An angel from heaven appeared to him and strengthened him
[in the garden of Gethsemane].”

There is no need for this quote, it doesn't contradict my belief.

Men need to be strengthened; God does not because God is All-Powerful.If Jesus had to be strengthened, he must not be God.However,i would like to have your evidence for the above qoute.

John 20:28: Thomas answered and said to him, "My Lord and my God!"

Last two posts quite good; Jesus is God of course and said so Himself.

The Christians arguing against this simply do not understand what it means to say "Jesus is God".

We can ignore the non-Christians altogether --- unless they are seeking genuine understanding even as they disagree.

let me have your evidance which clearly pointed jesus as a god being my belief is different from yours clarification is needed from you.

Enigma:



--- unless they are seeking genuine understanding even as they disagree.

Quote from: jcross19 on July 08, 2010, 01:37 PM
it seems i want to contribute on the issue of Jesus is God or not. for my own observation from the bible Jesus is not God but remain the part of God , something in the bible that it's above our human imagination okay , do you know why they call him God is b,cos he represent God in the flesh is the same thing when Mr president could not attend a meeting but send his vice president and if the news caster want to make a comment they will say Mr president was the in the meeting due he was given the right to his vice or any representative of his command or when a king send one of his slave or cabinet with a staff of authority people will recognize the staff as a king when ever the staff is on a message . likewise Jesus in the bible stand as staff of authority of God that it's why they call him God and king [quote][/quote]

your christian brother opinion how do you respond to this.

it seems i want to contribute on the issue of Jesus is God or not. for my own observation from the bible Jesus is not God but remain the part of God , something in the bible that it's above our human imagination okay , do you know why they call him God is b,cos he represent God in the flesh is the same thing when Mr president could not attend a meeting but send his vice president and if the news caster want to make a comment they will say Mr president was the in the meeting due he was given the right to his vice or any representative of his command or when a king send one of his slave or cabinet with a staff of authority people will recognize the staff as a king when ever the staff is on a message . likewise Jesus in the bible stand as staff of authority of God that it's why they call him God and king
Quote

your christian brother opinion how do you respond to this.

I catch you here, you pass there; I catch you there, you pass here.

You asked me for proof, I have given you, but your arrogance wont let you admit the truth. One after the other. Am I correct or wrong? , after that we can move to jcross.

, And why have you guys deliberately ignored this post by 'I care'. Why see truth and ignore it?

Phillipians 2:10 At the name of Jesus every knee should bow of things in heaven and in earth and things under the earth.

Could the Bible have been talking about a mere mortal here?

Now I ask all of you, who do you say Jesus is?

@Italo: If in uke 22;43 above we read that an Angel appeared and strengthened Jesus at the Garden, we have the many thoughts about this incident:

1] Who saw the Angel apart from Jesus, who was strengthened?
2] Why will an Angel, which is a creation be strengthening his Creator, if Jesus was God?

Let the christians think about the above so that they know that The Creator Who should be the One strengthening His creations, should be the One receiving strengthening from anything.

Is the Phillipians 2; 10 some kinda prediction or a statement?

if it is a prediction: we will know that it did not come from Jesus, hence it is not a fulfilled prediction or prophesy, for no true muslim, or even Jew, etc will bow to Jesus.

if it is a statement: we will realize it is not from Jesus. But from somebody else with a wishful thinking mind. This statement was made after Jesus was no more on earth. Jesus is not defending himself against such an evil statement to honor him, where there is no need for such a honor for a creation while his Creator is ignored, because Jesus is simply no capable of coming back, until when his Lord Wills his return.

Jesus said while on earth; on my own power, i can do nothing. this is a sign of his being a mere creation, though an elect of God. I bet, based on Jesus personality against letting people know how he felt, he would have rebuked the author of the Phillipians's verse the mere suggestion of that statement before it entered any book, long before it is bekiefed by anyone.


Why is your knee not down for the Creator, instead of them being down for created Jesus son of Mary?

Is there anywhere in the NT that the writers say that Jesus said that he is categorically God, the very God that the Jews, even Moses spoke to? We are not just talking about trying to fit something unclear to mean affirmation. But clear statement that can be tested by what the OT said about God, and even what Jesus said about the OT and even God, directly.

We must not ignore his reported statement about Lord of his people being the same Lord that he had and this Lord is One God, Who was not on earth as Jesus was reported to be speaking.

How do you ignore and throw away all of these, but then come up with using revelation statements to justify the unjustifiable?

I was think just yesterday that why would any christian believe Paul, when he said he met Jesus in a vision, since no one else in his company saw what he said he saw on the way to Damascus?

If he met Jesus, and Jesus directed him to the apostles so that he can now be a member of their company, community, he must have been told what to do. Was he supposed to not learn from them what Jesus taught, preached? Would that not have been the expected course? If therefore he was given messages directly by Jesus, which will be unusual, if Jesus is not doing the same with his real apostles.

But will Jesus now tell Paul to teach something different from what he himself, Jesus taught to people when he was on earth, and differently from what he spent all his prophetic time teaching his apostles?

if this happens, shall not then question Jesus earthly teachings, his motives for now throwing away his own gospel, what he taught the apostles, and his choice of chosing the 12 in the first place and now rejecting them and now taking Paul over all of them?

Whats going on in the Bible of Jesus versus Paul?