pazienza:



How can you blame Igbo issues in national politics on Igbos alone?
Igbo had always stood as a block in national politics. Factors beyond our control , mostly emanating from resentment other Nigerians have towards us, had led to us often being sidelined in national politics.

The Northern Bourgeoisie and the Yoruba Bourgeoisie have conspired to keep the Igbo out of the scheme of things. In the recent transition when the Igbo solidly supported the PDP in the hope of an Ekwueme presidency, the North and South-West treated this as a Biafra agenda. Every rule set for the primaries, every gentleman´s agreement was set aside to ensure that Obasanjo, not Ekwueme emerged as the candidate. Things went as far as getting the Federal Government to hurriedly gazette a pardon. Now, with this government, the marginalistion of the Igbo is more complete than ever before. The Igbos have taken all these quietly because, they reason, they brought it upon themselves. But the nation is sitting on a time-bomb.https://www.nigerianbulletin.com/threads/yorubas-are-the-problem-with-nigeria-by-sanusi-lamido-sanusi-elombah-com.111348/

This was the current Emir of Kano words.
Currently, Atiku is being harassed into not buying into Igbo VP, by being told that an Igbo VP would generate resentment from Nigerians towards him. Notice the attempt by Yorubas to Igbonize Atiku candidature, the aim is simple, they are trying to appeal to the Igbo resentment ingrained in the very genetic make up of average Nigerians, and use it against Atiku,in such a way that Atiku would consider Igbo VP more of a liability, than an asset
They did the same to Agbaje in 2015 Lagos elections. Agbaje candidature was Igbonize to make it unappealing to other Nigerians in Lagos. Immediately Ambode fell out with Tinubu, Yorubas rushed and Igbonized Ambode too, to make him unattractive to average Yoruba persons.
You seem to not understand the dynamics at work in Igbo political dilemma in Nigerian politics.

Obi1kenobi:


) Dominance of Nigerian politics has not brought the North as much progress as it should have because of their own cultural dysfunction. This doesn't mean an Igbo presidency cannot be transformative for Ndigbo, bringing infrastructure, industries and much-needed political reforms.

I hope you know that the powers of the presidency is limited by a National Assembly dominated by the north. There is a reason GEJ struggled to get progressive bills passed. The northern dominated National Assembly frustrated his agenda. Goodluck hoping that they will allow an Igbo president to pass laws that benefits igbos.

2) IPOB is not a serious intellectual movement. It was irredeemably destroyed and discredited as a serious movement when they embraced a charlatan and dabbled into myth-making nonsense (flying Israel flags about and all that) and had no coherent policy or ideology.

Without the so called charlatan, Mazi Nnamdi Kanu, nobody would know anything about IPOB. IPOB has intellectuals in it. Just because you don’t know doesn’t mean they are not there.

3) Ethno-states are not going to magically solve all our problems. People still love to self-segregate for political gain. It wouldn't surprise me if in a Biafran republic, some Elechi Amadi equivalent rises among Ebonyi people for example fanning resentment against other Igbo groups that they might believe oppress them. The main reason such an ethnostate would be unwise though is economic. Quite frankly, the South East is not very naturally endowed by nature: very small, the only geopolitical zone with no international borders, cut off from the sea and all international borders, not particularly endowed with natural/mineral resources. The economic pain in the interim of an immediate schism would be far too great to bear, even if things should progress eventually.

I will address this better when I have time.


4) I'm sure prosperity for all Igbos in Nigeria is what we want. Not sure how the Biafran agitation would bring that.

Biafra will take away all the economic, social, cultural and political obstacles purposefully put in place by the Nigerian Government to limit the advancement of igbos. Igbos in Nigeria are not even living upto one-quater of their true potential because of the Nigerian state. We should be competing with the likes of Koreans today

pazienza:
Basically everything Ndiigbo do in national politics is misintepreted and given negative coloration by Nigerians.

Ndiigbo supported OBJ in 1999, 2003, despite PDP maltreatment of Ekwueme.
On normal basis , this should be us reaching out and building solidarity with Yorubas.
But do Nigerians are that way? Nope. We are being told told we are stupid for doing so.
If for any reason we refused to support OBJ , we would be told we are tribalist.

If we vote in block, we would be told we are naive for puting our eggs in one basket, but if we don't, we would be told that we are confused and united and our divided voting pattern would be used to justify the point.

Currently, all Yorubas states are all under APC and we are being told it's Mark of political sophistication. I remember when all Igbo states were controlled by PDP, and Yorubas by mixture of AD, PDP and LP, we were told that Yorubas are wise and sophisticated for not putting all their eggs in one basket. Now APGA, APC and PDP are in the East,but the narrative has changed.

Let me tell you, it doesn't matter what Ndiigbo do, Nigerians would always attach negative coloration to it.

raker300:
Wch do you prefer?

Igbo amaka

pazienza:
Let me tell you, it doesn't matter what Ndiigbo do, Nigerians would always attach negative coloration to it.

raker300:
Enugu sect.

pazienza:
Basically everything Ndiigbo do in national politics is misintepreted and given negative coloration by Nigerians.

Ndiigbo supported OBJ in 1999, 2003, despite PDP maltreatment of Ekwueme.
On normal basis , this should be us reaching out and building solidarity with Yorubas.
But do Nigerians see it that way? Nope. We are being told told we are stupid for doing so.
If for any reason we refused to support OBJ , we would be told we are tribalists.

If we vote in block, we would be told we are naive for puting our eggs in one basket, but if we don't, we would be told that we are confused and not united and our divided voting pattern would be used to justify the point.

Currently, all Yorubas states are all under APC and we are being told it's Mark of political sophistication. I remember when all Igbo states were controlled by PDP, and Yorubas by mixture of AD, PDP and LP, we were told that Yorubas are wise and sophisticated for not putting all their eggs in one basket. Now APGA, APC and PDP are in the East,but the narrative has changed.

I have heard a SS minority tell me that Ndiigbo caused GEJ failure in 2015. His logic was that we caused it by supporting GEJ. That we attracted Igbo hate to GEJ.
Imaginr what the narrative would be if we didn't support GEJ. It would be that we are unforgiving, jealous and wicked, and refused to vote for him because of hate we have for Ijaws.

Let me tell you, it doesn't matter what Ndiigbo do, Nigerians would always attach negative coloration to it.

horsepower101:


The moment majority of pro Nigerian igbos realize this bolded fact is the day our true mental and physical liberation really begins. A lot of Igbos still think that there is a secret formula igbos have to learn politically BUT they don’t know that our enemies will constantly defines our moves as bad because they hate us and want us to fail.

Why is it that igbos have been elected in different western countries yet in Nigeria, they keep claiming we don’t know politics....lol.

basilo101:

No big deal here. Let us also yerobanize Buhari and tell yorubas how politically naive they are by allowing one party dominate their region

pazienza:

What about the Yorubas? How has OBJ presidency upgraded the living standard of an ordinary Yoruba man above that of Ndiigbo? I agree though, an Igbo patriotic President would help us get somethings . Like giving AIIA real investment and policies needed to thrive as an international airport.

I disagree strongly with this. The strongest ingredient of prosperous first would countries in the old world, is the quality of the human resources, harnessed and set forth to a unified purpose by a progressive governance.
Unified purpose is better achieved in mono ethnic or atleast overwhelmingly homogeneous ethnic setting. Take a look at the advanced Nations, in the world, Germany, Japan, China (over 92% ethnic Han), etc, they have a populace United by shared purpose.
The greatest resources in modern world is human resources, and no part of black Africa is more endowed with quality human resources than Igboland, and we still have huge reserve of natural gas, yet untapped.
Rwanda and Ethiopia both are landlocked, yet very progressive African nations, much better than Nigeria in terms of progress, and same is applicable to Botswana.
Ndiigbo will be fine outside Nigeria federation, if it's well planned.

pazienza:


This is why I'm apopletic with Igbos who go about propounding the naive theory of playing the voltron of Nigeria, the good Samaritan of Nigeria, by sacrificing our VP slot in attempt to save all Nigerians, through ousting Buhari.
How much more deluded can we be?

Obi1kenobi:
I do not argue against the value of human resources. I was pointing out our immediate concerns in a sudden schism from Nigeria. We've spent decades going cap-in-hand to Abuja to collect Federal allocation from oyel money. Suddenly weaning us off that teat would need serious economic re-engineering. And as I said, though we should see progress further down the line, we will certainly feel a lot of economic pain initially. It's not that easy to restructure an economy with the deep systemic rot accumulated over the years. What I'm essentially asking here is how many people would be willing to bear the initial pain? How many pensioners can cope without their payments, and how many civil servant can cope with being sacked, and how many of the citizens can endure the massive shortfall in funding for public projects: roads, health, waste management, erosion and flood control etc? And all this will depend on good leadership. If we keep voting the Ubas, Orjis, Okorochas etc to power, can we achieve quick progress. Do the citizens have enough political consciousness to stop voting an Andy Uba when he pays you N2000?
My problem with some of those who support the secessionist cause (not you) is they underestimate the structural weaknesses we have in our own societies and somehow presume bad leadership would just magically disappear once we have a new republic. I'm sure South Sudanese had the same dreams when they sought freedom from their Northern oppressors. It didn't turn out the way they expected. We haven't paid enough attention to the bad leadership in the SE and are too focused on the Federal Government.

ChinenyeN:


*nods* This is a message that needs to be resounded more among Igbo. Not for the sake of people playing victim, but rather for the sake or re-assessing the nationalistic approach. There are definite benefits to this message, if it were to be used as fuel for decision-making, rather than a 'woe is we' discussion.

Obi1kenobi:


I'm sufficiently confounded by the scale of ignorance and revisionism here not to even be bothered to foment a response. Especially as brevity is not your friend in your convoluted ramblings. Wouldn't know where to start. Incredible!

pazienza:



How can you blame Igbo issues in national politics on Igbos alone?
Igbo had always stood as a block in national politics. Factors beyond our control , mostly emanating from resentment other Nigerians have towards us, had led to us often being sidelined in national politics.

The Northern Bourgeoisie and the Yoruba Bourgeoisie have conspired to keep the Igbo out of the scheme of things. In the recent transition when the Igbo solidly supported the PDP in the hope of an Ekwueme presidency, the North and South-West treated this as a Biafra agenda. Every rule set for the primaries, every gentleman´s agreement was set aside to ensure that Obasanjo, not Ekwueme emerged as the candidate. Things went as far as getting the Federal Government to hurriedly gazette a pardon. Now, with this government, the marginalistion of the Igbo is more complete than ever before. The Igbos have taken all these quietly because, they reason, they brought it upon themselves. But the nation is sitting on a time-bomb.https://www.nigerianbulletin.com/threads/yorubas-are-the-problem-with-nigeria-by-sanusi-lamido-sanusi-elombah-com.111348/

This was the current Emir of Kano words.
Currently, Atiku is being harassed into not buying into Igbo VP, by being told that an Igbo VP would generate resentment from Nigerians towards him. Notice the attempt by Yorubas to Igbonize Atiku candidature, the aim is simple, they are trying to appeal to the Igbo resentment ingrained in the very genetic make up of average Nigerians, and use it against Atiku,in such a way that Atiku would consider Igbo VP more of a liability, than an asset
They did the same to Agbaje in 2015 Lagos elections. Agbaje candidature was Igbonized to make it unappealing to other Nigerians in Lagos. Immediately Ambode fell out with Tinubu, Yorubas rushed and Igbonized Ambode too, to make him unattractive to average Yoruba persons.
You seem to not understand the dynamics at work in Igbo political dilemma in Nigerian politics.

PabloAfricanus:


You're so simple minded it's not funny.

After reading your contributions further down, you essentially proved my point, maybe you're still not aware.
Politics is a game to be played, Igbo's have still not woken up to that fact.
Lack of political institutions equals lack of political leaders equals inability to come up with political strategies or goals.
Don't worry, you don't have to understand it.

PabloAfricanus:


You are practically saying it is the duty of Hausa's and Yoruba's to act in the best interest of Igbo's.
Why should they?
Dem join una for waist?
Too much of this victim mentality and refusal to strategize has blinded you guys to the responsibilities you alone owe yourselves.
Individual success does not and will never translate to group success, another sign of political naïveté displayed by Igbo's.
And yes, you cannot achieve group success without working political institutions, where will the leaders emerge from?

Why should other groups not fear Igbo domination when Igbo's clearly dominate over 70% of most markets?
Why should Yoruba's and Hausa's play good politics when they can play dirty and get away with it?
No one owes you Igbo's anything, not today, not tomorrow.
Maybe you're yet to come to terms with that.

Obi1kenobi:


Says the simple-minded comedian that can't quite grasp how 40 million people across the SE, SS and lower reaches of the Middle Belt came to adopt a common tongue, culture and consciousness (unlike the Binis for example many of whose progeny now assert distinct identities all over the SS) and somehow thinks this was accomplished without the any quality of diplomatic engagement. And spent time pouring out his laughable revisionist history thinking it impresses anyone rather than expose his ignorance.
The only thing I'm "aware" of is your amusing pride in your crass ignorance.

Obi1kenobi:


I'm pretty sure that is not what anyone is saying, but it flew over your head as expected. It is the duty of everyone in a functional, representative democracy to act in good faith with a power-sharing model that is inclusive of all nationalities in the state. Else, our national unity is worth nothing and there is no reason constituent nations of this nation-state shouldn't secede to look after their own interests.

The victim mentality gets played by everyone. The Yoruba played it a lot in the First republic and still talk about NCNC-orchestrated marginalization in those days. The Northerners claimed Igbos wanted to take over all their markets, their civil service and the officer corp of the military. Yes, Igbos have been the biggest whiners since the civil war: for the obvious reason that we have been excluded from the corridors of power since then.
To be honest, I'm sure many would not disagree with some of your points about the miscalculations or a certain political "naivety" of Igbos in Nigerian politics. But you had overplay your hand into myth-making.

basilo101:

Gbam. Igbos have created a uniform political consciousness in SE, SS and most part on NC. Kanu almost ruined it though

basilo101:

Gbam. Igbos have created a uniform political consciousness in SE, SS and most part on NC. Kanu almost ruined it though

I frankly can't recall, seeing as OBJ accomplished little in terms of infrastructure and his PDP administration wasted Nigeria's oil boom years. This current government though which is essentially a core North and South West alliance is certainly benefiting the Yorubas far more than Igbos when you look at the infrastructural projects to be delivered. My point certainly though is that the failures of others in power doesn't mean we wouldn't benefit from it. The Northern elite certainly profited from controlling the levers of power for decades: more powerful and influential than the Igbo elite class. But the power of the Northern elite never filtered down to their common people.

I do not argue against the value of human resources. I was pointing out our immediate concerns in a sudden schism from Nigeria. We've spent decades going cap-in-hand to Abuja to collect Federal allocation from oyel money. Suddenly weaning us off that teat would need serious economic re-engineering. And as I said, though we should see progress further down the line, we will certainly feel a lot of economic pain initially. It's not that easy to restructure an economy with the deep systemic rot accumulated over the years. What I'm essentially asking here is how many people would be willing to bear the initial pain? How many pensioners can cope without their payments, and how many civil servant can cope with being sacked, and how many of the citizens can endure the massive shortfall in funding for public projects: roads, health, waste management, erosion and flood control etc? And all this will depend on good leadership.

If we keep voting the Ubas, Orjis, Okorochas etc to power, can we achieve quick progress. Do the citizens have enough political consciousness to stop voting an Andy Uba when he pays you N2000?
My problem with some of those who support the secessionist cause (not you) is they underestimate the structural weaknesses we have in our own societies and somehow presume bad leadership would just magically disappear once we have a new republic. I'm sure South Sudanese had the same dreams when they sought freedom from their Northern oppressors. It didn't turn out the way they expected. We haven't paid enough attention to the bad leadership in the SE and are too focused on the Federal Government

Bede2u:
wat he meant was how ppl spread across large areas came to become igbo and have similar cultures. unlike binis whose kins now claim urhobo, itsekiri and so many other distinct tribal identity.
kanu ruined nothing. kanu made more igbos politically consious...and pls we are not talking about non igbos here. we owe them nothing

Sprumbabafather:
"When you go to Rome, behave like the Romans" is a popular saying, and until the Igbos of Nigeria understand how to behave like their neighbours, how to play the Nigerian brand of politics, they cannot dominate the political space like they have done in other fields. The Igbos are a very ambitious, very talented and industrious set of people who have proven to themselves how efficient their positive drive can be. 

But Nigerian politics is dirty, filled with the scums of society rather than the best of achievers. That is why the Igbos need to change their tactics. The most popular attraction to Nigerian politics is not a desire to solve societal problems, but a way to worsen it, as long as you benefit from the chaos, while you drop crumbs to your cronies who help you loot. Nigeria is practising lootocracy as a system of government.

It will be better if the Igbos throw reason out of the window and start voting with their greed, rather than rational reasoning. Afterall, every other person does it. 

For the love of Mike, how did the Igbos end up voting a better and more educated Jonathan, rather than a Buahri who we all know is no good. The best thing was for the Igbos to abandon Jonathan when it seems clear he will lose, jump into the doomed wagon of Buahri and vote like all the other mad men. And if the governors of the SE are all PDP, they can hold a meeting and change to APC overnight, all five states!

We should play amala and ewedu politics, jump onto the bandwagon and scream sai baba so loud that the original chanters will be afraid, and drop their microphones for us to take over, arrive APC meeting before others and flow with the tide, even if the tide is sweeping the whole country into the sea, don't worry, we won't die first. 

We should start praising all the mistakes of APC, tell them they are the best and massage their bloated ego till the whole country falls into where its destined to fall into. Igbos should await the next election with greed in their eyes, vote for the worst candidates, as long as you think he will win, damn the consequences, and if the shiitt hits the ceiling fan, don't bother to duck. We cannot lose more than others.

Remember, "When you go to Rome, behave like the Romans"

pazienza:
Obi1kenobi post:



Glad we both agreed that OBJ presidency yielded no tangible improvement in the living standard of the average Yoruba man.

Third class standard poor infrastructures that would all be gone in four years time. I'm not too perturbed




We all know that Biafra or no Biafra, the current monthly "Bambiyala" to Abuja by state governments is not sustainable on the long run. Nigerian crude oil reserves are depleting, crude while still going to be important might not necessarily be able to fetch this current high revenue in the future, the Nigerian population is growing at geometric progression. Even as we speak, many states can nolonger meet up with their monthly obligations with their allocations, they are pilling up debt and are oweing workers backlog of salaries, yet Workers are groaning under the pressure of declining purchasing power of the naira, hence the current clamour for increase in minimum wage. There is also issue of restructuring with likely increase in derivation for ND states, which would still out more strain on monthly allocations of states.
No matter how you look at, the current Abuja system is going to implode, and states would be forced to wean of crude oil. It's a matter of when, and not if.
So, as you can see, continual stay in Nigeria does not necessarily provide immunity to the possible issues young Biafran nation would face.
Why delay the inevitable?



If there ever a people likely to shake off Bad leadership when isolated out of the Nigerian system, it is Ndiigbo. We don't tolerate man imposed suffering very well. We are very rebellious by nature. The likes of T. A, OUK, Uba , etc, will not survive in Igbo nation. They are currently hiding behind Abuja, because the average Igbo youth sees Abuja as the primary cause of our problems while our local political leaders are seen as secondary causes. For now, all efforts seem to be aimed at the perceived primary cause. Once the primary cause is out of the way, and the average Igbo youth condition didn't improve. It would only be a matter of time before they turned on the home front political leaders.

We don't have any structural weaknesses in leadership at home.
During the regional system, Eastern region had the most progressive leadership in the country. We were also the most peaceful region, as we should great dexterity and diplomacy in managing the Eastern minorities. In contrast, Awolowo and Akintola poor grasp of diplomacy, led to the western region implosion.
The North you are praising had Tiv riots break out. They are not any better at political leadership and diplomacy than Ndiigbo. A simple look at how the three major groups ran their regional governments would prove this.

When you lots speak of lack of political structures in Igboland, you lots only display your poor grasp and understanding of the Igbo political consciousness, you are merely out of desire to be seen as being "detribalized" echoeing distorted half truths and falsehoods about us, that our detractors pander about.

I would suggest you go read things fall apart By Achebe, to understand how cordinated and sophisticated, Igbo political system is.

What happened to Ndiigbo is that after the war, we lost control of leadership selection process in Igboland, as Hausa-fulani and Yoruba gang up, slowly infiltrated us with dredges of our society, as leaders, having empowered them and made them answerable to them, and not to us. These individuals also depend on Abuja for sustenance and protection. They wouldn't survive in Biafra. Angry Igbo youths would die just to get hold of them, if they try nonsense in Biafra. The likes of OUK,, Rochas, etc. These are dredges of our society who all were errand boys of Northern bourgeoisies not long ago before coming to power, and still remain so, even though in power.

Igbo political philosophy is simple, it's called OHACRACY. The masses select leaders who only serve as figure heads, and would remain intact so long as they remained answerable and accountable to the masses. They are quickly rebelled against once perceived to have turned against the masses.
When you see armless IPOB youths placing themselves in front of armed Nigerian security personnels, tempting them to shoot, you get a clear picture of what would happen to Igbo political leaders should they fail to deliver in Biafra. The people would rebel, and we are suicidal in rebellion. No government would survive that, the opposition would win.

South Sudanese is exactly what Multiethnic Biafra Kanu was championing for would degenerate to, which is why I'm strongly against it. A mostly homogeneously Igbo Biafra would be strong enough to weather whatever storm immediate post Nigeria Biafra might throw at us.