fero007:


To me the isokos and urhobos are less like Bini, etsako, ishan and more like itsekiri, ijaw and kwale

Exempting the Ijaw, Urhobo actually influenced Itsekiri and Ukwuani, not the other way around.

michaelkaroh:
The time will come and now is, when BROTHERS will disregard minute differences and embrace the truth of their origins. I believe deeply that most tribes in the delta are just offshoots of ancient igbos. E.g my tribe (urhobo) seem to have many words and phrases shared with igbos. I have been doing alot of research of recent and I have been able to match over 30 words and phrases common to both tribes. It is very wrong to classify us(urhobo) as edoid when we are closer to igbos culturally. Some urhobo towns even kept record of their igbo ancestors. To me urhobos speak an igboid dialect with edoid accent. For example the urhobos call the heart "ubi udu" due to their edoid accent, in truth what they are trying to pronounce is the igbo phrase "obi ndu" translated "the seat of life" which is the heart. I wish dna testing can be done on this tribes to know who is who and end this self hate I see all around for if you hate your brother you hate yourself. The way igbos speak ill of urhobos is sickening and vice versa. The civil war messed everything up, distrust and hate is the order of the day. God help US.

Balderdash! Urhobos were not one of the belligerents in the civil war for any Igbo-ancestry denial to have occurred. Everyone, including the madman patrolling the streets of Uwherun, knows that Urhobos and Isokos are 100% Edo breed. While it is true that some clans may have had some pre-colonial Igbo contact or migrants, that is all there is to it. Igbo and Urhobo are miles apart in culture, worldview and language.

If you are looking for Igbo ancestry, start with the Ukwuanis (who also claim to be Edo).

fratermathy:



@op: I don't know about other groups but Urhobos share nothing with the South East! It's as simple as that.

I think you'll agree that dressing looks similar(at least when compared to my Yoruba dressing), I know urhobos have tradition of carrying wine to visitors, going for omuguo, and I know lots of times I've heard urhobos speaking and hearing Igbo words as dey talk.

I've noticed same with ijaws, Isoko, ikwerre ogoni, and some crossriver languages

fero007:


I think you'll agree that dressing looks similar(at least when compared to my Yoruba dressing), I know urhobos have tradition of carrying wine to visitors, going for omuguo, and I know lots of times I've heard urhobos speaking and hearing Igbo words as dey talk.

I've noticed same with ijaws, Isoko, ikwerre ogoni, and some crossriver languages

Dressing is similar for women alone (all women South of the Niger save for a few exceptions dress almost the same with one or two variations here and there). As for men, Urhobo dressing is nothing like that of Igbo. Urhobo male attire share cognates with Itsekiri and Western Ijaw, not Igbo.

We don't have an Omuguo tradition in Urhoboland. If it is done, it is out of modern courtesy, not a cultural imperative.

Urhobos don't hear Igbo words. I'm 100% sure that any Urhobo you met who can hear Igbo words must have some form of personal affiliation with Igbo or stayed in Igboland. I'm an Urhobo to the core and I understand virtually all Urhobo dialects, including Isoko. Trust me, I don't know a thing about Igbo except via my personal research into the language or through nollywood movies.

That said, I agree that some words are mutually shared in both languages, as there are mutually shared words by Urhobos and Yorubas (many), Binis (many), Ijaws, Itsekiris, etc. There's nothing special about this. Languages or people that have come in contact one way or another must share certain words via loaning or other means but we can't say for sure who originally owns the words. The words may be Urhobo words loaned into Igbo or vice versa.

Again, a non native speaker of Urhobo or even Igbo may think we all speak alike. Its just like how I think all Northerners, regardless of ethnicity, speak alike. However, a keen listener will know that Urhobo is even closer to Yoruba than it is to Igbo. There are more shared words and syntactic structures between Urhobos and Yorubas as well as with Binis than with Igbos.

Regardless of all of these, Urhobos share some form of religious affinity with Igbos by virtue of colonial Christianity.

fratermathy:


Ignorance is a disease. Please try and cure yours. Urhobo is an Edoid language because Urhobo evolved from a Proto Edoid language, alongside Bini, Esan, Afemai, etc.

And no, Urhobos were never referred to as "heebo" at any point in time. Urhobos were known as Sobo and that was it! Prove me wrong with any accurate colonial or pre-colonial document.

Okoro is a complex of names that is present in many ethnicities in Nigeria including all Edoid languages. There is no proof that it is an Igbo word or that it was loaned from Igbo. Provide one if you have.

There are no ancient Urhobo names that are Igboid in nature. NONE! Share some of those names and I'll tell you their exact origin.

And yes, you are NOT an Urhobo! No Urhobo will deny the Edoid ancestry of Urhobo. NONE!

@op: I don't know about other groups but Urhobos share nothing with the South East! It's as simple as that.

Actually many urhobos I've seen deny the edoid grouping as they believe urhobo is an original tribe that always existed on its own, not as an offshoot of Edo or any other tribal group and dat since they have no historic record of their own, it is possible the europeans documented what they assumed

BTW, I've noticed that does akwa ibom and cross river tribes eat plenty leaves just like Igbos, and they have high bride price too

fero007:


Actually many urhobos I've seen deny the edoid grouping as they believe urhobo is an original tribe that always existed on its own, not as an offshoot of Edo or any other tribal group and dat since they have no historic record of their own, it is possible the europeans documented what they assumed

BTW, I've noticed that does akwa ibom and cross river tribes eat plenty leaves just like Igbos, and they have high bride price too

Denial is irrelevant in the face of facts. Linguists and scholars, even those of Urhobo origin, have studied Urhobo language and culture and have since concluded that Urhobo is an Edoid language. Take note that this doesn't mean that Urhobo is a dialect of Bini/Edo but that Urhobo evolved from the same proto-language from which Bini, Esan, Afemai, Owan, etc, also evolved. Prof Rose Aziza, a true daughter of Agbarho whose dialect is considered central Urhobo, did her PhD on the Tone of Urhobo and like other scholars such as Ben Elugbe, she asserted that Urhobo is Edoid! I'm still awaiting contrary linguistic proof.


Aside linguistic evidence, Urhobo oral folklore is replete with mentions of a common origin in Aka or ancient Benin (Igodomigodo) during the times of the Ogiso (sky kings). It will be foolish to think that these folktales were all made up. Folktales present the oral history of a people. Many historians rely on folktales, songs and other narratives to construct a people's history.


So if any Urhobo denies the Edo origin of Urhobo people, he's free to. However, facts are facts whether or not we accept them. Urhobo is Edoid! However, Urhobo is not a dialect or subgroup of the modern day Edo!


Yes, the Efik/Ibibios share leafy cuisines with the Igbos . I can attest to that. Urhobos generally eat more oily foods but when I arrived Calabar for the first time, I was overwhelmed by the amount of leafs they consume. And yes, apart from cuisines, they also share similarities in world view and high bride price. The reason for most of these similarities stems from pre-colonial Arochukwu where many Ibibios/Efiks were domiciled until there was a civil strife that forced them to move. Goto Arochukwu of today and you will undoubtedly see the "Calabar" culture still there.

fratermathy:


Ignorance is a disease. Please try and cure yours. Urhobo is an Edoid language because Urhobo evolved from a Proto Edoid language, alongside Bini, Esan, Afemai, etc.

And no, Urhobos were never referred to as "heebo" at any point in time. Urhobos were known as Sobo and that was it! Prove me wrong with any accurate colonial or pre-colonial document.

Okoro is a complex of names that is present in many ethnicities in Nigeria including all Edoid languages. There is no proof that it is an Igbo word or that it was loaned from Igbo. Provide one if you have.

There are no ancient Urhobo names that are Igboid in nature. NONE! Share some of those names and I'll tell you their exact origin.

And yes, you are NOT an Urhobo! No Urhobo will deny the Edoid ancestry of Urhobo. NONE!

@op: I don't know about other groups but Urhobos share nothing with the South East! It's as simple as that.

what is the proto-edoid language that urhobo evolved from?.....what records were made of it?....all Edoid languages have been the original tongue of it's speakers...nothing evolved......I am not fluent in urhobo but I speak ukwuani dialect of igbo fluently. I and my siblings owe our little understanding of urhobo partly to our knowledge of ukwuani.....now my brother, concerning your claim that ukwuani is also edoid is crude. Funny thing about this whole thing is that people tend to tell history from the beginning of a people's return migration. Have it in mind that what I am talking about is origination and not migration. Yes urhobos migrated from edo but where did they originate from?....after much research, Philip emeagwali found out that as many as one in four igbos today are descendants of the igbo return migrants from edo. So based on that do we now classify igbos as edoid?.....if our partners in migration are not classified as edoid then why are urhobo people forced into that unpleasant corner. At the end of every business all parties head HOME....the Benin empire many urhobos so crave to associate with was built by urhobos and igbos(slave labour)....if you know history you would know that urhobos were second class citizens in Benin same as igbos. Now how can you be a slave in your own house. Historically slaves were made of STRANGERS....and when such strangers get tired of the system and find the courage...they head HOME!!....to start with, find out why the oba of Benin never steps foot in urhobo land...let's see if you would still refer to urhobos as "edoid"

fero007:


I think you'll agree that dressing looks similar(at least when compared to my Yoruba dressing), I know urhobos have tradition of carrying wine to visitors, going for omuguo, and I know lots of times I've heard urhobos speaking and hearing Igbo words as dey talk.

I've noticed same with ijaws, Isoko, ikwerre ogoni, and some crossriver languages

And you were claiming to be a Yoruba guy with very little knowledge of this region in your opening post.


That Yoruba guy who came in here to call you out as a sock puppet pretending to be what you are not was absolutely right.
Unforumately his post was deleted by moderators for some weird reason.

michaelkaroh:
what is the proto-edoid language that urhobo evolved from?.....what records were made of it?....all Edoid languages have been the original tongue of it's speakers...nothing evolved......I am not fluent in urhobo but I speak ukwuani dialect of igbo fluently. I and my siblings owe our little understanding of urhobo partly to our knowledge of ukwuani.....now my brother, concerning your claim that ukwuani is also edoid is crude. Funny thing about this whole thing is that people tend to tell history from the beginning of a people's return migration. Have it in mind that what I am talking about is origination and not migration. Yes urhobos migrated from edo but where did they originate from?....after much research, Philip emeagwali found out that as many as one in four igbos today are descendants of the igbo return migrants from edo. So based on that do we now classify igbos as edoid?.....if our partners in migration are not classified as edoid then why are urhobo people forced into that unpleasant corner. At the end of every business all parties head HOME....the Benin empire many urhobos so crave to associate with was built by urhobos and igbos(slave labour)....if you know history you would know that urhobos were second class citizens in Benin same as igbos. Now how can you be a slave in your own house. Historically slaves were made of STRANGERS....and when such strangers get tired of the system and find the courage...they head HOME!!....to start with, find out why the oba of Benin never steps foot in urhobo land...let's see if you would still refer to urhobos as "edoid"

1. Urhobo, Bini, Esan, Owan, Afemai, Isoko, Okpe, Uvwie, Epie, Atissa, Degema and many other languages in the Western Niger Delta, and even as far as Rivers State, are ALL EDOID languages that evolved from a common proto-Edo language. Kindly educate yourself a little. Even Igbos have Igboid languages like Ikwerre, Ukwuani, etc. Urhobo is NOT an Igboid language. There is just no linguistic proof to substantiate that assertion so suck it up and stop it there unless you have any academic proof.

2. Never did I say Ukwuani is an Edoid language. Can you quote where I said so? Ukwuani is 100% Igboid with some marginal influences from Urhobo in terms of culture and world view. However, Ukwuani folklore is replete with instances of Benin origins but that is all there is to it.

3. Igbo is not Edoid and vice versa. Edo, specifically the ancient Benin empire, influenced Western Igboid groups such as Enuani, Ika and Ukwuani. However, they are not Edoid groups! They speak Igboid languages with few loan words and cultural influences from Edo.

4. Sentiments don't change facts. Urhobo is NOT a dialect or subgroup of Bini/Edo. Urhobo is a distinct group with origins from Edo. We speak an Edoid language and have elements of the Edoid complex of cultures in our culture. However, over time, Urhobo has evolved to be a distinct group such that its language is not even mutually intelligible with other Edoid languages.

5. Learn your lesson and educate yourself. Just because you have Igbo origins doesn't mean all Urhobos do or want to (and this is even assuming that you are an Urhobo by stretching my imagination). Urhobo is an Edoid language. We share common boundaries with Western Igboid groups and there must have definitely been marginal influences here and there, ON BOTH SIDES! However, Urhobo has nothing to do with Igbo in terms of language or culture.

Fratermathy.
He understands ukwuani but does not understand urhobo. One of his parents (likely mother) is also very likely ukwuani.

I think that explains all his unapologetic unacademic blunderings from page 0.

That was why I even had to tag gou and efe, because I was getting irritated and hadto call someone to take over.

fratermathy:


Urhobos did not migrate through ANIOCHA! Haba! Where do you guys get these revisitionist history from?

Urhobos are not Ijoid or Itsekiri as Scholes0 put it. Urhobos are Edoid. Pure and simple. Infact, it is Itsekiri that was influenced by Urhobo, not the other way around.

Ijaws have always been autochnous to the Niger Delta area and have been there before other groups. However, there are only marginal influences of Ijaw in the Western Niger Delta groups.

Historical revisionists should be warned. I'll take on you here.

I didnt say urhobos were ijaws or Itsekiris.
I was trying to put the various cross cultural influences between all the various groups in the area into context by juxtaposing their cultures- so while there is more relationship between western urhobo clans like Okpes for example and Itsekiris, itsekiris have virtually 0 historically contact with Isokos.
I hope you understand.

scholes0:


And you were claiming to be a Yoruba guy with very little knowledge of this region in your opening post.


That Yoruba guy who came in here to call you out as a sock puppet pretending to be what you are not was absolutely right.
Unforumately his post was deleted by moderators for some weird reason.

Egbon, kilelei, emi omo Ilesha, oruko mi akinbode
some of my friends use my phone n username to comment since they are more experienced on the matter, so don't be surprised if you see a post from fero007 and he's speaking calabar

1shortblackboy:
that one na ur opinion

Ikwerre’s Igbo. That’s not up for discussion.

Na wa o, this you pepo SS tribes are complicated o, omo I don't even want to go middle belt to understand gwari, jukun, nupe, igarra and the army of tribes

scholes0:
Fratermathy.
He understands ukwuani but does not understand urhobo. One of his parents (likely mother) is also very likely ukwuani.

I think that explains all his unapologetic unacademic blunderings from page 0.

That was why I even had to tag gou and efe, because I was getting irritated and hadto call someone to take over.

It was obvious from the get-go that he is not well versed in Urhobo affairs. I've seen many of his types who, rather than read up and get hard facts, choose to believe what they think.

It's such a shame that people do not use Google anymore. Let me pardon his ignorance until he comes back for more lessons on his history (assuming he is even Urhobo).

scholes0:


I didnt say urhobos were ijaws or Itsekiris.
I was trying to put the various cross cultural influences between all the various groups in the area into context by juxtaposing their cultures- so while there is more relationship between western urhobo clans like Okpes for example and Itsekiris, itsekiris have virtually 0 historically contact with Isokos.
I hope you understand.

I understand better now. I know you wouldn't make such a blunder, I thought you were trying to say Urhobos were culturally influenced by Itsekiri and I tried to correct that idea.

chai its like I will join nl to properly discuss this, for nw let me use bode's username

wenem meka o, my pepo know we sef

Nw let me caution fratermathy n scholes for acting as if it is only their opinion that is correct, I doubt u pepo are even from my SS, if nt you will know that no tribe not even Bini n ishan like being lumped 2geda as Edo, they are distinct groups, PERIOD! u say u ve academic proof but I see even you don't understand what you read. What is your reason for putting almost half of SS as Edoid, same way they are diff from Igbo is same way they are diff from each other, Michael though im nt 2 sure of what he said, also made very good points

Imagine you were annoyed that ukwuani was put as Edoid, but you put Degema, an original Ijaw(kalabari) town as Edoid, r u not lookin 4 trouble?

If u ve any belief keep it for yourself and don't cum n stupidly post rubbish and claim it is fact

and come to think of it if your proof is correct and urhobo are from aka in Bini( some place they claim we rumuighoroya come from) then must have MIGRATED to be in their present homeland looking naija map how would they ve moved from northern edo to niger delta, without passing through current delta north, u see u r confusing ursef

we have Hausa, Yoruba, Igbo, Bini(separate), ishan( separate), urhobo(separate), isoko(separate), ukwuani(separate), ikwerre(separate), ogba, ogoni, Ijaw, itsekiri, efik, annang, tiv all separate and not under groups of diff tribes.

Who no gree make he go mop river niger

fero007:
chai its like I will join nl to properly discuss this, for nw let me use bode's username

wenem meka o, my pepo know we sef

Nw let me caution fratermathy n scholes for acting as if it is only their opinion that is correct, I doubt u pepo are even from my SS, if nt you will know that no tribe not even Bini n ishan like being lumped 2geda as Edo, they are distinct groups, PERIOD! u say u ve academic proof but I see even you don't understand what you read. What is your reason for putting almost half of SS as Edoid, same way they are diff from Igbo is same way they are diff from each other, Michael though im nt 2 sure of what he said, also made very good points

Imagine you were annoyed that ukwuani was put as Edoid, but you put Degema, an original Ijaw(kalabari) town as Edoid, r u not lookin 4 trouble?

If u ve any belief keep it for yourself and don't cum n stupidly post rubbish and claim it is fact

and come to think of it if your proof is correct and urhobo are from aka in Bini( some place they claim we rumuighoroya come from) then must have MIGRATED to be in their present homeland looking naija map how would they ve moved from northern edo to niger delta, without passing through current delta north, u see u r confusing ursef

we have Hausa, Yoruba, Igbo, Bini(separate), ishan( separate), urhobo(separate), isoko(separate), ukwuani(separate), ikwerre(separate), ogba, ogoni, Ijaw, itsekiri, efik, annang, tiv all separate and not under groups of diff tribes.

Who no gree make he go mop river niger

That you are angry over something as simple as linguistic facts tells us the calibre of person you are.

And yes, Degema is an Edoid language. The Degemas themselves know this and they don't need you to assent or otherwise for it to be true.

What this altercation reveals is that you seem to be ignorant about linguistic families and ethnic identity. That a group is ethnically distinct doesn't mean that its language fell from the sky. Every lauguage came from a proto-language. Most of the languages in Southern Nigeria are from the Niger Congo language family, including all Edoid languages.

Linguistically, Urhobo, Isoko, Epie, Atissa, Degema, Okpe, Uvwie, Esan, Bini, Afemai, etc, are all EDOID languages. Notice that Bini is included and this implication is that Bini is not exclusively Edo!


So whether or not anyone accepts simple academic facts such as this is their own palaver.

fratermathy:


1. Urhobo, Bini, Esan, Owan, Afemai, Isoko, Okpe, Uvwie, Epie, Atissa, Degema and many other languages in the Western Niger Delta, and even as far as Rivers State, are ALL EDOID languages that evolved from a common proto-Edo language. Kindly educate yourself a little. Even Igbos have Igboid languages like Ikwerre, Ukwuani, etc. Urhobo is NOT an Igboid language. There is just no linguistic proof to substantiate that assertion so suck it up and stop it there unless you have any academic proof.

2. Never did I say Ukwuani is an Edoid language. Can you quote where I said so? Ukwuani is 100% Igboid with some marginal influences from Urhobo in terms of culture and world view. However, Ukwuani folklore is replete with instances of Benin origins but that is all there is to it.

3. Igbo is not Edoid and vice versa. Edo, specifically the ancient Benin empire, influenced Western Igboid groups such as Enuani, Ika and Ukwuani. However, they are not Edoid groups! They speak Igboid languages with few loan words and cultural influences from Edo.

4. Sentiments don't change facts. Urhobo is NOT a dialect or subgroup of Bini/Edo. Urhobo is a distinct group with origins from Edo. We speak an Edoid language and have elements of the Edoid complex of cultures in our culture. However, over time, Urhobo has evolved to be a distinct group such that its language is not even mutually intelligible with other Edoid languages.

5. Learn your lesson and educate yourself. Just because you have Igbo origins doesn't mean all Urhobos do or want to (and this is even assuming that you are an Urhobo by stretching my imagination). Urhobo is an Edoid language. We share common boundaries with Western Igboid groups and there must have definitely been marginal influences here and there, ON BOTH SIDES! However, Urhobo has nothing to do with Igbo in terms of language or culture.

Accordingly
1. And I keep asking...what is the proto-edoid language that urhobo evolved from?....at least we know that English language today evolved from old English down to German and partly french...you cannot say urhobo evolved from something that doesn't exist....not a single record of it......please tell me the Edoid language.

2. If ukwuani folklore according to you contains narratives of Benin ORIGINS, what does that make them?....if tomorrow by reason of research or revelation, the urhobos find out that their grand-patriarch has Izon origins...what would that mean for us his descendants?.

3. Igbo is not edoid but urhobo is?...I really don't understand......do you realise you cannot tell urhobo history without touching their igbo side...I will repeat this, what we share with the edos is just an accent but with the igbos it's culture and spirituality (the same altar, prayers, sacrifice etc).

4. Urhobo is not a sub-group of edo but originated from there?...that is like a child saying he is no longer part of his extended family because he now has his own family....if urhobo is not a subgroup of edo then we are not edoid(which is the truth by the way�). In fact, urhobo is a subgroup of the greater igbo nation which comprises a lot of peoples not generally considered igboid...."tribes" that are Igboid are all south south tribes except ishekiri, ijaw and edo. Even southern Cameroonians are Igboid. It is a grave mistake to think all igboid groups would speak a language close to central igbo or perhaps with an igboid accent.

5. It is not hard to see that urhobos originated from ancient igbos. If only you know how ancient the original igbo tongue is.....truth is, you cannot "want to" be igboid. A child does not choose to be born. Denying the cultural similarities between urhobo and Igbo is denying the obvious.

michaelkaroh:

Accordingly
1. And I keep asking...what is the proto-edoid language that urhobo evolved from?....at least we know that English language today evolved from old English down to German and partly french...you cannot say urhobo evolved from something that doesn't exist....not a single record of it......please tell me the Edoid language.

2. If ukwuani folklore according to you contains narratives of Benin ORIGINS, what does that make them?....if tomorrow by reason of research or revelation, the urhobos find out that their grand-patriarch has Izon origins...what would that mean for us his descendants?.

3. Igbo is not edoid but urhobo is?...I really don't understand......do you realise you cannot tell urhobo history without touching their igbo side...I will repeat this, what we share with the edos is just an accent but with the igbos it's culture and spirituality (the same altar, prayers, sacrifice etc).

4. Urhobo is not a sub-group of edo but originated from there?...that is like a child saying he is no longer part of his extended family because he now has his own family....if urhobo is not a subgroup of edo then we are not edoid(which is the truth by the way�). In fact, urhobo is a subgroup of the greater igbo nation which comprises a lot of peoples not generally considered igboid...."tribes" that are Igboid are all south south tribes except ishekiri, ijaw and edo. Even southern Cameroonians are Igboid. It is a grave mistake to think all igboid groups would speak a language close to central igbo or perhaps with an igboid accent.

5. It is not hard to see that urhobos originated from ancient igbos. If only you know how ancient the original igbo tongue is.....truth is, you cannot "want to" be igboid. A child does not choose to be born. Denying the cultural similarities between urhobo and Igbo is denying the obvious.

Engaging in any intellectual altercation with you is futile as you are the most unintellectual user I've met in recent times. For this reason alone, I won't respond to any more responses from you but for the sake of those who may be deceived by your distortion of facts, I'll say these final words:


1. The proto-language Urhobo evolved from is ancient Edo, hence Edoid. Edoid languages belong to the Niger-Congo language family of which there is also a proto-language and all languages spoken by man have a proto-language. Some scholars claim that Sanskrit is the oldest language in the world. Others claim otherwise.

2. Urhobo is Edoid. There are no "ifs" in this. Ukwuani is Igboid, no "ifs". We know Urhobo is Edoid, not because of filial ties or folklore but linguistic and cultural evidence.

3. Urhobo has no Igbo ancestry. I wonder who feeds you with bunkum or where your lies came from. Urhobo has nothing to do with Igbo! Why are you so bent on dragging Igbo alongside Urhobo? Urhobo is Urhobo and no evidence, not even folkloric ones, suggest that Urhobos came from Igbo. Urhobos also do not speak anything remotely related to Igbo. In fact, I dare you to prove this point by telling me how this Igbo sentence manifests in Urhobo: "Afuru gi nanya".

4. Ditto above. Urhobo is an Edoid language but it is not a dialect of Bini or any Edoid language. It is a cognate member of the Edoid language family alongside other Edoid languages like Bini, Esan, Owan, etc. To say otherwise is simply foolish, not when there are numerous sources on this and not even a single one to lay any iota of credence to your far fetched claim.

5. And what is that ancient Igbo tongue? I won't be surprised if you say it is "Biafra"! You are certainly no Urhobo and I don't need to strain myself to prove this point. Igbo is Igbo. Urhobo is Urhobo. Urhobo was never classified as Igbo or Igboid at any point in human history because the differences are clear. Urhobo share no "altar, prayers and sacrifice" with Igbos. The Urhobo socio-religious worldview is quite unique and distinct from that of Igbo except with reference to Christianity which is a colonial religion whose adherents can be found everywhere in the world.


If you want to educate yourself genuinely, I will indulge you as you are quite ignorant about so many things. Apart from ignorance, you are also dogmatically Igbo and that is nothing but obvious from all your rantings here. Furthermore, you have the Internet to learn basic linguistic concepts but choose to be ignorant. If you peddle your falsity furthermore and label them as facts, I'll be forced to report you to the mods for insulting the Urhobo ethnic group. Thank you.

fratermathy:


Engaging in any intellectual altercation with you is futile as you are the most unintellectual user I've met in recent times. For this reason alone, I won't respond to any more responses from you but for the sake of those who may be deceived by your distorting of facts, I'll say these final words:


1. The proto-language Urhobo evolved from is ancient Edo, hence Edoid. Edoid languages belong to the Niger-Congo language family of which there is also a proto-language and all languages spoken by man have a proto-language. Some scholars claim that Sanskrit is the oldest language in the world. Others claim otherwise.

2. Urhobo is Edoid. There are no "ifs" in this. Ukwuani is Igboid, no "ifs". We know Urhobo is Edoid, not because of filial ties or folklore but linguistic and cultural evidence.

3. Urhobo has no Igbo ancestry. I wonder who feeds you with bunkum or where your lies came from. Urhobo has nothing to do with Igbo! Why are you so bent on dragging Igbo alongside Urhobo? Urhobo is Urhobo and no evidence, not even folkloric ones, suggest that Urhobos came from Igbo. Urhobos also do not speak anything remotely related to Igbo. In fact, I dare you to prove this point by telling me how this Igbo sentence manifests in Urhobo: "Afuru gi nanya".

4. Ditto above. Urhobo is an Edoid language but it is not a dialect of Bini or any Edoid language. It is a cognate member of the Edoid language family alongside other Edoid languages like Bini, Esan, Owan, etc. To say otherwise is simply foolish, not when there are numerous sources on this and not even a single one to lay any iota of credence to your far fetched claim.

5. And what is that ancient Igbo tongue? I won't be surprised if you say it is "Biafra"! You are certainly no Urhobo and I don't need to strain myself to prove this point. Igbo is Igbo. Urhobo is Urhobo. Urhobo was never classified as Igbo or Igboid at any point in human history because the differences are clear. Urhobo share no "altar, prayers and sacrifice" with Igbos. The Urhobo socio-religious worldview is quite unique and distinct from that of Igbo except with reference to Christianity which is a colonial religion whose adherents can be found everywhere in the world.


If you want to educate yourself genuinely, I will indulge you as you are quite ignorant about so many things. Apart from ignorance, you are also dogmatically Igbo and that is nothing but obvious from all your rantings here. Furthermore, you have the Internet to learn basic linguistic concepts but choose to be ignorant. If you peddle your falsity furthermore and label them as facts, I'll be forced to report you to the mods for insulting the Urhobo ethnic group. Thank you.

well, since you've labeled me "unintellectual" and unworthy of further response from you, what can i say?...I guess this seems to be the end of our somewhat interesting(on my side) discourse....Thanks for your time. Stay blessed.

This OP claims to be Yoruba, I am not buying it.

Emilokoiyawon:
This OP claims to be Yoruba, I am not buying it.

Egbon, so what do you think I am?

fratermathy:


Ignorance is a disease. Please try and cure yours. Urhobo is an Edoid language because Urhobo evolved from a Proto Edoid language, alongside Bini, Esan, Afemai, etc.

And no, Urhobos were never referred to as "heebo" at any point in time. Urhobos were known as Sobo and that was it! Prove me wrong with any accurate colonial or pre-colonial document.

Okoro is a complex of names that is present in many ethnicities in Nigeria including all Edoid languages. There is no proof that it is an Igbo word or that it was loaned from Igbo. Provide one if you have.

There are no ancient Urhobo names that are Igboid in nature. NONE! Share some of those names and I'll tell you their exact origin.

And yes, you are NOT an Urhobo! No Urhobo will deny the Edoid ancestry of Urhobo. NONE!

@op: I don't know about other groups but Urhobos share nothing with the South East! It's as simple as that.

Okoro is an edoid word, thou Bini now use Okeren (which is a corrupt form of okoro), the word is also used in itsekiri.

The urhobos don't trace their origin to Igbo , the few that denies Bini origin believes they originated from Egypt. Urhobo language is no way related to igboid.

fero007:


Actually many urhobos I've seen deny the edoid grouping as they believe urhobo is an original tribe that always existed on its own, not as an offshoot of Edo or any other tribal group and dat since they have no historic record of their own, it is possible the europeans documented what they assumed

BTW, I've noticed that does akwa ibom and cross river tribes eat plenty leaves just like Igbos, and they have high bride price too

Those that denies Bini origin do so due to perceived dominance by the Binis, nothing more, the urhobos are Edoid 100%, just that the Urhobo nation is a far bigger ethnic group and can't be subdue by any race or tribe.

fero007:


Egbon, so what do you think I am?

Okay. What does Eyin adie adele tele mean?

Emilokoiyawon:

Okay. What does Eyin adie adele tele mean?

Ah, Alaye, mi o mor, eleyi gidi gan. Hmmn wasere egbonla