Paying tithes and giving to the needy are two different thing entirely. If you pay your tithes you're simply saying to God to preserve the rest and increase it. So that things will not tight for you. And if you give to the needy, you're telling God to always provide for your need so that you will not be stranded all the days of your life and not to be in want every days of your life. So its good to pay your tithes and also giving to the needy.

Well the truth is that paying of tithe and giving to the needy are two different responsibilties of a christian. but we need to know that they are not substitute  to each other. Paying of tithe is a stronger obligation. the bible says PAY your tithe (to the priest) and Give to the poor. as we can see from this semantics paying is an obligation while give is subject to one's judgment.
Matt 26:8-11
8When the disciples saw this, they were indignant. "Why this waste?" they asked. 9"This perfume could have been sold at a high price and the money given to the poor."

This is the same way must people (chrisrians) think, they always think giving to the church is a waste and that preacher are there to "take advantage" of their congregation. well its not new.

10Aware of this, Jesus said to them, "Why are you bothering this woman? She has done a beautiful thing to me. 11The poor you will always have with you, but you will not always have me.

Your tithe must be paid to the church and you cannot give it as a gift to the needy. Otherwise God will come for it.Mal 3.10.
Your TITHE is your Insurance. Paying of tithe is a duty we owe to God.
however to give to the poor is good in fact
He who gives to the poor lends to the LORD, and he will reward him for what he has done--prov 19:17
God bless y'all!!!

Tithing is Unscriptural Under the New Covenant

[A Scriptural Exposition on the Fraudulent Fleecing of the Flock]

Since first posting this tithing paper on bible-truths.com, we have had hundreds of thousands of visitors seeking information on this topic. Many have written me personally thanking me for freeing them from this illegal and abusive practice of the Church. I have also received emails from some who are sure that tithing is a bonafide legal obligation for members of the New Testament Christian Church.

Objections to my paper range from simply quoting the prophet Malachi sent to the priests and nation of Israel: "Wherein have we robbed Thee? In tithes and offerings. Ye are cursed with a curse…." While others who can find absolutely no Scriptural authority for Christians to tithe, invent clever little doctrines like this:

"Tithing was a form of worship to God, and since we still worship God, we must still tithe."

I will answer this one in one sentence: Since burnt offerings were a form of worshiping God, and since we still worship God, must we still offer burnt offerings to God? , Ridiculous.

Part II of this paper covers the Malachi prophecy more thoroughly as it concerns the subject of tithing, for full details http://www.bible-truths.com/tithing.html

TayoD:

@trin_girl,

Again, you are refering to tithing as practiced under the Law of Moses. How was it done before the Law of Moses ever came into being?

TayoD,

I'm disappointed that you're not presenting any valuable rebuttal to my contributions. I must take this to mean that you're unsure of your position and cannot defend it with relevent scripture, because this is not your style.

However, as you wish, go ahead and pay your tax to the church sir, I choose freedom.

tlops:

Well the truth is that paying of tithe and giving to the needy are two different responsibilties of a christian. but we need to know that they are not substitute to each other. Paying of tithe is a stronger obligation. the bible says PAY your tithe (to the priest) and Give to the poor. as we can see from this semantics paying is an obligation while give is subject to one's judgment.
Matt 26:8-11

where is your scriptural proof that tithing today is the responsbility of the christian? please show it. and while you're at it, explain the tithe as it was described in Deuteronomy 14:22, compare it to what churches do today and consider the truth. anything else is just your opinion

tlops:

8When the disciples saw this, they were indignant. "Why this waste?" they asked. 9"This perfume could have been sold at a high price and the money given to the poor."

This is the same way must people (chrisrians) think, they always think giving to the church is a waste and that preacher are there to "take advantage" of their congregation. well its not new.

Are you comparing anointing/worshipping the son of Man with giving money to a religous organisation Nonsense!

tlops:

10Aware of this, Jesus said to them, "Why are you bothering this woman? She has done a beautiful thing to me. 11The poor you will always have with you, but you will not always have me.

Your tithe must be paid to the church and you cannot give it as a gift to the needy. Otherwise God will come for it.Mal 3.10.

Lol! Thanks for giving me morning chuckle. God will come for His tithe.
Please explain what relevence Malachi 3:10 has to your previous statement about God coming for tithe.

Thanks much.

@Ishmael,

Why do you people always emphasize on some and not all of the old testament laws?? what about keeping the sabbath day holy?? Why do christians ignore keeping the sabbath day holy?? If Tithes must be paid then the sabbath day must be kept holy too.

We are told in the New Testament that the Sabbath and animal sacrifices were a shadow of Christ.  No where are we told that the tithe was a shadow of anything. The tithe is refered to as belonging to God and taking it amounts to robbing Him.

@trini_girl,

I'm disappointed that you're not presenting any valuable rebuttal to my contributions.  I must take this to mean that you're unsure of your position and cannot defend it with relevent scripture, because this is not your style.
However, as  you wish, go ahead and pay your tax to the church sir, I choose freedom.

I am rather busy and that is why I have been unable to make rebuttals line after line. But that aside, I have pointed out something very relevant to this whole conversation which you have been side-stepping. In response to my submissions, you kep quoting scriptures that are compleely irrelevant to what I have said.

I have made clear that Abraham and Jacob were not under the law and I am particular about why the two paid tithes on ALL their increases despite the fact that there was no law. Please do not refer to the tithe as practiced under the law of Moses to address this issue as it does not fit.  So tell me, why did Abraham and Jacob considered it covenant obligations to pay tithe and why shouldn't we? When we have gone past this, then I will begin to deal with the N.T teaching about the tithe.

I am also reminded how you claimed in our other discussions that Melchizedek was actually Jesus Christ.  If indeed he was a pre-incarnation manifestation of Christ (which I don't believe so), how come he received tithes then and not now?

And by the way, you have no freedom to rob God.

I think your tithe could be giving to a begggar or pastor /Iman/shrine Head
Just get it out of your monthly /yearly earnings - "the Koko" is that you dont spend for yourself!

I beg if u like pay if dont care keep it, give it to the beggar u will get beggar's reward,, afterall its not coming to me, and that is very good.

diyobdw:

I think your tithe could be giving to a begggar or pastor /Iman/shrine Head
Just get it out of your monthly /yearly earnings - "the Koko" is that you don't spend for yourself!

research tells us that only 6% of American pentecostals paid tithes in 2002.
Most gave freewill offerings.
Who knows the statistics in Nigeria.

And the last time I checked,the Church in America is certainly under no curse.

people are willingly enslaving themselves to false teachings.

Y'all should keep giving those theives your money in the name of tithe. Y'all want insurance huh, like ur money will buy it.

Stop beign slaves to thieves.

pls all u guys pay ur tithes to me

Give both.

What you sow, you shall reap.

I feel very happy giving offering and tithes and giving to the needy.

It is better to give seed grants to the needy to enable them earn a living.

Give them the fish and also give them the fishing tools to go fishing too.

Nigeria is a poor country, because most Nigerians do not know how to give.
They don't know how to sow.
So they have wasted their millions of seeds.
Such as Sugar Daddies pampering their girlfriends with hundreds of thousands of naira on self-gratification while thousands of poor people in their villages need boreholes and mills.

The N50, 000 you spend to sleep with a babe can finance a call centre for a needy widow.

From that one acorn you sow
The mighty oak tree will grow.

@babyosisi,

research tells us that only 6% of American pentecostals paid tithes in 2002.
Most gave freewill offerings. Who knows the statistics in Nigeria.

From information I got rently, about 12% pay tithe as at last year. 

And the last time I checked,the Church in America is certainly under no curse

It depends on what you understand by a curse.  Curse to me is the absence of blessings.  I doubt if the average Nigerian Christian is in as much debt as the average Aemrican Christian.  Tell me, is being in perpetual debt a blessing or a curse? See Deuteronomy 28:44 He shall lend to thee, and thou shalt not lend to him: he shall be the head, and thou shalt be the tail.

None of the people in favour of tithe have told us where the money goes. I and others have asked many times, but none is willing to reply. Until i see my money being spent to help Beggers, orphan kids, blind and deaf people etc, then and only then will i start giving 10% of my salary. Is your fault If you are stupid enough to tithe without asking where your money is going. Of course the pastor will quote you scriptures on why you should tithe, its the most important thing in the bible, is it not? I don't want to name pastors but Chris Okotie is more wealthy now than when he was selling records. Why sell records when you can sell "hope and dodgy verses" to vulnerable people?

TayoD:

@babyosisi,

From information I got rently, about 12% pay tithe as at last year. 

It depends on what you understand by a curse.  Curse to me is the absence of blessings.  I doubt if the average Nigerian Christian is in as much debt as the average Aemrican Christian.  Tell me, is being in perpetual debt a blessing or a curse? See Deuteronomy 28:44 He shall lend to thee, and thou shalt not lend to him: he shall be the head, and thou shalt be the tail.

what do you call perpetual debt?
mortgage?
School loans?
car loans?
In case you don't know most multi millionaires in Nigeria in legitimate businesses take out bank loans which they have to pay back,how do you think the banks survive in Nigeria?
Money begets money.
The last time I checked Nigeria is not better blessed financially than America,if it were so,you would have been there not here.

God's commandments are supreme and above human questioning.

creationxt:

God's commandments are supreme and above human questioning.

how many of such commandments have u kept or observed properly?? Is it only paying of tithes that God commanded people to observe?? What about the sabbath day, do you also observe it??

for Christ's sake just as the sabbath is of no more significance for a christian to gain salvation so also is the tithes; that was why the apostle Paul said that we are no longer living under any law.

This is a touchy topic and one I have problem with. I would rather help out the needy than to enrich a Pastor's pocket. I have heard people say when you give, you give tithe to the Lord and not the Pastor, what the money is used for should not be my problem that the pastor too have to account to the his Maker. But then, I have seen pastors of these mega churches live like kings and people suffering. So I will rather help the needy.

@babyosisi,

what do you call perpetual debt?
mortgage?
School loans?
car loans?
In case you don't know most multi millionaires in Nigeria in legitimate businesses take out bank loans which they have to pay back,how do you think the banks survive in Nigeria?
Money begets money.
The last time I checked Nigeria is not better blessed financially than America,if it were so,you would have been there not here.

Again, you have put forth a human argument here.  As far as God is concerned, borrowing is not a blessing. To be the head, you must be the one lending and not the other way round. Everything that is not a blessing is a curse whether it is mortgage, loans or whatever. Go through Deut 28 again. When you are blessed, you lend and when you are cursed, you borrow. Simple.

I did not come to the You.S. for economic reasons. Financially, I was more liquid in Naija than I am here in the You.S. at the moment.  Asset wise, I do have more now than I did in Naija.  Other reasons brought me to the You.S. and it isn't everyone in the You.S. that is here for economic reasons.

@ishmael,

how many of such commandments have u kept or observed properly?? Is it only paying of tithes that God commanded people to observe?? What about the sabbath day, do you also observe it??

for Christ's sake just as the sabbath is of no more significance for a christian to gain salvation so also is the tithes; that was why the apostle Paul said that we are no longer living under any law.

I do keep all the commandments the way I know how. I do not have any other God but Jehovah - do you?  I do not covet my neighbours property - do you? I rememeber the Sabbath day to keep it holy - do you (Christ is my Sabbath). I love the Lord my God with all my heart with all my soul and with all my stregth and my neighbour as myself - do you?  Am I under the law because I obey these laws? - certainly not.  Am I blessed for keeping them - certainly!  Will I be cursed if I do not -certainly!

The law is an attempt by God to highlight His righteous standards to His creation.  There is certainly no sin condemned by the law that is permitted in the New Testament! Ceremonies may have been done away with, but the law of love which is the core virtue of the Law of Moses is still in place today.

Like I said, Christ is my sacrifice and my sabbath, so there is no need today to offer blood sacrifices or sit at home on a particular day.  However, I find no scripture that tells me that Jesus is my tithe or that He is the reality of the tithe.  Until I do, I will keep acknowledging that Jehovah is not only my Lord, but that He is the possessor of everything through payment of the tithe (just as abraham, the father of faith did).

Tithe is our responsibility which we should not forget.

But giving to the poor and needy is very vital. It helps and solves our own personal problem too.
l dont miss doing that. lm a testimony to that it pays.

I prefer givin to the needy. With stuff goin on in churches these days i prefer to give to people who are really in need

TayoD:

@babyosisi,

Again, you have put forth a human argument here. As far as God is concerned, borrowing is not a blessing. To be the head, you must be the one lending and not the other way round. Everything that is not a blessing is a curse whether it is mortgage, loans or whatever. Go through Deut 28 again. When you are blessed, you lend and when you are cursed, you borrow. Simple.

when I get to your level of not reasoning like a human anymore,I'll let you know.

@babyosisi,

when I get to your level of not reasoning like a human anymore,I'll let you know.

I don't know what to make of what you wrote here.

What could God do with this stuff?

He told the Children of Israel to put them into heaps (2 Chronicles 31:5-6), and that they would be stored in a treasure house (Nehemiah 10:38).

Why does he, the creator of the fruit—flock and everything else, want this stuff (Genesis 1)?

Why put it in a “treasure house” to rot when it could be used to feed the millions of hungry people in the world?

Church leaders accept tithes in the name of God. They'll say “God needs your help building the church, ” What does god need with a multi-million dollar church? Nothing. These are the same so-called church leaders that you'll find riding in fancy cars, eating the best foods, living in expensive homes and living the life of wealthy people while their followers scrape and struggle to do “God's will” by tithing.

These so-called leaders will lead congregations in the worse of the worse neighborhoods and on their way to church to preach on Sundays or Saturdays or whatever day they declare to be the Sabbath. They will step over the homeless or the less fortunate.

I don't know y people like to interprete the bible to suit them. I can bet most of the people here advocating for the need to give to the needy and not pay tithe have not put any smile on a needy soul lately. be sincere ask your self if u have really met someone's dire need lately.
well as for the tithe given to the church that is their own "chop money" those that work at the alter must feed at the altar.

Numbers 18:20-21
20 The LORD said to Aaron, "You will have no inheritance in their land, nor will you have any share among them; I am your share and your inheritance among the Israelites.

21 "I give to the Levites all the tithes in Israel as their inheritance in return for the work they do while serving at the Tent of Meeting.
the priest, pastors are the levite of today.

let God judge any one them that uses the income unwisely, but u obey the word of the lord.

Hi All,

Enigma, long time. Good to hear from you. TG, Ishmael et al, keep up the good work.

Funnily enough no one in support of mandatory tithing for Christians can even string together a half decent premise for it. On this point at least protagonists from Tlops to Gospelman are nothing more than well-versed religionists, spewing what they've been fed.

TayoD is the only tithing proponent that sounds like he is somewhat familiar with scripture, but as ever (on this point at least) he marshals a motley crew of half-truths, mis-interpretations and outright lies in order to defend something that he would clearly see is wrong if he just looked with unbiased eyes.

Knowing fully well that tithing under the law cannot be imposed on NT Christians, TayoD goes back to the Abraham/Melchizedek incident to establish it. Then as if by magic, he uses Malachi in an attempt to enforce it, insisting scripture calls non-payment "robbing God".

TayoD of course knows that the law & the prophets are to be read as a whole. Did I mention disengenious?

It's almost amusing how he convolutes, calling Jacob Abrahams son. Lies, saying that Abraham tithed on his increase and obfuscates saying that Jacob kept the law of tithing, when;

1. There is no mention of Abraham, Isaac or Jacob tithing on their increase. And there is lots of mention of Isaac's increase, even though TayoD conveniently overlooks this fact.

2. Jacob made a personal vow to God to tithe if God would give him something in return. It had nothing to do with the Abraham/Melchizedek incident, or any preexisting law.

3. TayoD also fails to tell us what, how or to whom Jacob would have tithed?

I could go on and on. How tithing as a practice predates Abraham, how a tithe paid to priests is a nonsense in NT Christianity, as we are all priests. How his notion that Christ collects the tithe in place of Melchizedek is almost scary, but not as scary as thinking that all OT testament laws were fulfilled in Christ except the "tithe". Maybe you'll realise that to call The Lords work incompletre is beyond scary.

In the earlier thread on this referred to by Enigma, we comprehensively treated this. Indeed some of the sub-themes were worthy of threads in their own right. Everything that TayoD is peddling here has already been laid bare. His final point was that he could find no fulfillment of the "gift" made by the OT High Priest, and erroneously (and obstinately) insisted that this was the tithe .

But if a brother insists on being emblematic of a lost cause and dodgy doctrine, who am I to stop him  ? Where's Analytical by the way? I'd guess he supports mandatory tithing. Apologies if you don't dude !

Like TG said, it's condemnation. Here and now (I used to feel guilty if I so much as thought about otherwise utilising my tithe money, and unworthy that I couldn't meet more needs outside of tithing), and thereafter, because keeping the law justifies no one.

God bless _{(and blesses, regardless of our puny attempts at self justification and righteousnes ~ Luke 18:10-12)}

I'm not going to quote any scriptures but I'll speak from experience. Paying tithes has really paid off and I realised that whenever I did not pay my tithes, I ended up in a fix financially. You see, it's simply a covenant between you and God and God does not need your money but, He needs your heart . In other words, when you give your tithe give it freely and you'll never regret you did.
Whatever the Pastor does with it at the end of the day is between him and God- all of us will be brought before God to account for our actions.
So, as for me I will do all of the above- pay my tithe, give to the needy and the whole works knowing that my treasures are being stored in heaven.
I am clearly speaking for myself.

A.w.o:

I'm not going to quote any scriptures but I'll speak from experience. Paying tithes has really paid off and I realised that whenever I did not pay my tithes, I ended up in a fix financially. You see, it's simply a covenant between you and God and God does not need your money but, He needs your heart . In other words, when you give your tithe give it freely and you'll never regret you did.
Whatever the Pastor does with it at the end of the day is between him and God- all of us will be brought before God to account for our actions.
So, as for me I will do all of the above- pay my tithe, give to the needy and the whole works knowing that my treasures are being stored in heaven.
I am clearly speaking for myself.

Thank you, I couldnt have said it any better than that

Jesus and Offerings

Jesus never took from his congregation. He never passed around a basket or tray to receive pledges and donations at the end of each sermon. He never asked for a payment. Nor did he ever tell his disciples to accept money for their assistance as found in Matthew 10:8-10:

Matthew 10:8-10:
“Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give. Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses, nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.”

A.w.o:

I'm not going to quote any scriptures

And why not?

but I'll speak from experience.

Anecdotal evidence!

Paying tithes has really paid off

That is, it was some sort of investment scheme or insurance policy?

You see, it's simply a covenant between you and God

If you mean like Jacob, then true. But if you mean mandatory and punishable by cursing if in default, then not true.

In other words, when you give your tithe give it freely and you'll never regret you did.

You don't "give" something that's mandatory, you pay. And it can't be "freely" if you have too!

Whatever the Pastor does with it at the end of the day is between him and God

I'd like to label this Kindergarten Christian thinking, but the truth is it's not Christian and it's not thinking.

I am clearly speaking for myself.

That's allowed. And thanks for making that very clear.

monshege:


Thank you, I couldnt have said it any better than that

Actually, you couldn't have said it any worse. It's devoid of any real scriptural foundation or biblical understanding. Presumably you wouldn't have gone to the Word either. But recounted examples of it working for you?

God bless

For those of you who believe that giving your tithe to the church should come first before helping the needy, you are the ones who keep corrupt the pastors rich.


If a pastor takes on the job of promoting people to come to God, he did so on his own and he should be doing so from the heart. The pastor must not be doing Gods will by the grace of God because if he was, he would not press the church to give up a tithe of their earnings to him. A real pastor who is doing Gods will from the heart and would leave all that he needs in the hands of God, he would trust that no matter what, God will take care of him. If the pastor doesn't trust in God, he shouldn't be standing in the pulpit. I am not a religious fanatic and I don't have a religion I am a part of but at one time I used to. I will never forget the pastor of my old church saying, "Jesus was not a beggar, Jesus was so busy doing Gods will that people just gave things to him with out Jesus having to ask of them. Jesus did not go about laying down guilt trips on people." I am not into the Jesus thing but I have to say, what that preacher said could go for anyone. As a matter a fact, I remember now why the pastor said what he said. He was telling the church to stop giving their money to people who beg because most homeless people don't even buy food, they buy drugs, liquor and all kinds of things they need to feed their bad habits with. He said if they were not buying liquor, drugs or what have you, they would not be begging for money, instead they would be asking for some kind of work to perform in exchange for the money. I guess you could say that for the pastor, his cars, homes, women and money laundering businesses are his bad habits.