http://naijachurchnews.com/members-forced-church-england-gay/


Church of England evangelicals are claiming that they being “forced out” for being gay.

Jayne Ozanne, an influential Church of England evangelical who is gay, has promised to raise the issue at the General Synod next month and ask whether churches are breaching the official guidelines of the House of Bishops...... read more...http://naijachurchnews.com/members-forced-church-england-gay/

Why can't this gay people just respect the church for once?

They can open theirs and make it acceptable to gay people.

hisgrace090:
Why can't this gay people just respect the church for once?

They can open theirs and make it acceptable to gay people.

Abi

hisgrace090:
Why can't this gay people just respect the church for once?

They can open theirs and make it acceptable to gay people.

I agree. Every organization should reserve the right to dictate their own term and condition.

If you can't keep these terms and conditions, leave them alone and go form your own.

johnydon22:


I agree. Every organization should reserve the right to dictate their own term and condition.

If you can't keep these terms and conditions, leave them alone and go form your own.

the Anglican Church has already decided to welcome gay and lesbians, that is their rule.


the gays are going to the conference to ask those who can't keep the rules to get out of the Church.

Ubenedictus:
the Anglican Church has already decided to welcome gay and lesbians, that is their rule.


the gays are going to the conference to ask those who can't keep the rules to get out of the Church.

That is some take over shiit..

johnydon22:


That is some take over shiit..

yeah, they were wise, after they got acceptance now they are sending out those who disagree with them.

the Church of England seem to be dying two times faster than the average European Church, closely followed it seems by the Lutherans.

Ubenedictus:
yeah, they were wise, after they got acceptance now they are sending out those who disagree with them.

the Church of England seem to be dying two times faster than the average European Church, closely followed it seems by the Lutherans.

This is due to flexibility of tradition.

The Catholic church is traditionally more rigid and strong. Must it too will be caught in that drift

johnydon22:


This is due to flexibility of tradition.

The Catholic church is traditionally more rigid and strong. Must it too will be caught in that drift

yeah, morality gets decided by vote in conference.


the Catholic Church will come pretty close but it won't come to this... there are doctrines and nobody have to power to change them

Ubenedictus:
yeah, morality gets decided by vote in conference.

It is widely understood that morals are learnt from ones society
- Budaatum ©

Ubenedictus:
the Catholic Church will come pretty close but it won't come to this... there are doctrines

It is useless for you to worship me, when you teach rules made up by humans."
- Matthew 15:9

It is no use for them to worship me, because they teach human rules as though they were my laws!
- Matthew 15:9

⁷It is no use for them to worship me,
because they teach human rules
as though they were my laws!’
⁸“You put aside God's command and obey human teachings.”
- Mark 7:7-8

Please identify clearly and definitely what the doctrine is

Ubenedictus:
and nobody have to power to change them

Really?
Nobody has the power to change traditions of men?
Especially or even, if they are ill-advised regulation(s)?

this below may be Budaatum's opinion, but for the Christian Church morality is not determined by society but by God, so even if society says murder is OK, it will still be immoral... atleast that is my perspective as a Catholic Christian....

you are of course free to disagree.

MuttleyLaff:
It is widely understood that morals are learnt from ones society
- Budaatum ©

It is useless for you to worship me, when you teach rules made up by humans."
- Matthew 15:9

It is no use for them to worship me, because they teach human rules as though they were my laws!
- Matthew 15:9

⁷It is no use for them to worship me,
because they teach human rules
as though they were my laws!’
⁸“You put aside God's command and obey human teachings.”
- Mark 7:7-8

Please identify clearly and definitely what the doctrine is

you have created a strawman, doctrine in the context I used it refers to revealed Truth not human tradition. I speaking of that which God has revealed about himself and about us and has been received and taught by the Church for 2000yrs

eg Jesus is the Son of God, lived died and rose again for us, now at the father's right hand interceding etc, God has taught man not to steal or practice homosexuality etc.

those are not human rules...and by quoting the passages above it shows you are attacking a straw man of your own creation.

Really?
Nobody has the power to change traditions of men?
Especially or even, if they are ill-advised regulation(s)?

nobody has the power to change the truths God has revealed certainly not a conference of clerics as the Church of England has done.

tradition of men change all the time whenever they are judged unuseful

Ubenedictus:
this below may be Budaatum's opinion

I like your choice of words.
In reality, it is nothing other than a Bud opinion

Ubenedictus:
but for the Christian Church morality is not determined by society but by God,
so even if society says murder is OK, it will still be immoral... at least that is my perspective as a Catholic Christian....

Morality is determined from a God's perspective
Your course of action is resolved on not missing the God mark

Ubenedictus:
you are of course free to disagree

As in, free to disagree to what

Ubenedictus:
you have created a strawman,
doctrine in the context I used it refers to revealed Truth not human tradition.
I speaking of that which God has revealed about himself and about us and has been received and taught by the Church for 2000yrs

It is useless for you to worship me, when you teach rules made up by humans."
- Matthew 15:9

It is no use for them to worship me, because they teach human rules as though they were my laws!
- Matthew 15:9

⁷It is no use for them to worship me,
because they teach human rules
as though they were my laws!’
⁸“You put aside God's command and obey human teachings.”
- Mark 7:7-8

You believe so, time will tell, if I've truly created a strawman.

Ubenedictus:
eg Jesus is the Son of God, lived died and rose again for us, now at the father's right hand interceding etc,
God has taught man not to steal or practice homosexuality etc

Please list all, where God has taught man not to practice "homosexuality"
Also contextually give details of why, where, when and how these supposedly teaching came about
In addition, explain how and when did the word "homosexuality" first appeared in print and Bible?
From what word(s) in the original text was "homosexuality" translated from?

Ubenedictus:
those are not human rules...
and by quoting the passages above it shows you are attacking a straw man of your own creation

Again , time will tell, if I truly was attacking a strawman.
Cards face up, on the table, do you condone or condemn consenting adults honest, lasting and loyal same sex relationship?

Ubenedictus:
nobody has the power to change the truths God has revealed certainly not a conference of clerics as the Church of England has done

Everyone has the power to change to the truth(s) God,
not only to, that, God has revealed but also to, that, Jesus Christ has certainly demonstrated

Ubenedictus:
tradition of men change all the time whenever they are judged unuseful

Tradition of men change all the time whenever they are not only judged unuseful but realised to be unhelpful, to say the least.

An instance or example that illustrates what is being discussed here, is in 2013, on the day before Good Friday when Jorge Mario Bergoglio changed a tradition of men, to become the first in the office he holds, to wash women feet.

MuttleyLaff:

Cards face up, on the table, do you condone or condemn consenting adults honest, lasting and loyal same sex relationship?

You're trying to devolve the argument from it's source; he's not the source of moral law. The question you should ask is does God "condone or condemn consenting adults honest, lasting and loyal same sex relationship?"

No gays should be allowed in the church unless they are new converts seeking deliverance.

delishpot:
No gays should be allowed in the church unless they are new converts seeking deliverance.

I don't agree with this.

every one is welcome to Church, the saint, the sinner and even the criminal, the repentant, the repenting and even the unrepentant. Catholics are never to lose hope in God's power to bring the most unrepentant into grace

they are welcomed the Church

Ubenedictus:
I don't agree with this.

every one is welcome to Church, the saint, the sinner and even the criminal, the repentant, the repenting and even the unrepentant. Catholics are never to lose hope in God's power to bring the most unrepentant into grace

they are welcomed the Church

There is a difference between someone who knows he is a sinner and someone who believes his lifestyle is normal and should not be challenged. A thief, prostitute etc knows that what he or she is doing is bad. But when they persist in their sins and say, allow us live our lives the way we want do not judge us or challenge our lifestyle; that is a different ball game.
Read my post again, I did not say they should not be allowed at all I only said when they persist in their ways they should not be accepted same with any sinner who thinks his lifestyle even though sinful should not be challenged. Gays are known for this.

9inches:
You're trying to devolve the argument from it's source;

I would never dream of doing such thing

9inches:
he's not the source of moral law.

No one said he was the source of moral law.

9inches:
The question you should ask is does God "condone or condemn consenting adults honest, lasting and loyal same sex relationship?"

Posing question at one person at a time 9inches.
Since as for now, it's Ubenedictus, who is faced,
does he, Ubenedictus, condone or condemn consenting adults honest, lasting and loyal same sex relationship?

9inches, you raised your head above the parapet, so I'll extend the question to you too,
do you condone or condemn consenting adults honest, lasting and loyal same sex relationship?
Or you neither condone nor condemn consenting adults honest, lasting and loyal same sex relationship?

delishpot:
No gays should be allowed in the church unless they are new converts seeking deliverance.

Ubenedictus:
I don't agree with this.
Every one is welcome to Church, the saint, the sinner and even the criminal, the repentant, the repenting and even the unrepentant.

Well said Ubenedictus

Ubenedictus:
Catholics are never to lose hope in God's power to bring the most unrepentant into grace
they are welcomed the Church

Smiling at underlined emboldened

delishpot:
There is a difference between someone who knows he is a sinner and someone who believes his lifestyle is normal and should not be challenged.
A thief, prostitute etc knows that what he or she is doing is bad.
But when they persist in their sins and say, allow us live our lives the way we want do not judge us or challenge our lifestyle;
that is a different ball game.

Read my post again,
I did not say they should not be allowed at all
I only said when they persist in their ways
they should not be accepted same with any sinner who thinks his lifestyle even though sinful should not be challenged.
Gays are known for this.

Why shouldnt consenting adults, who persist in honest, lasting and loyal same sex relationship be allowed in the "church"?
Why are you opposing consenting adults, persisting in committed, honest, lasting and loyal same sex relationship being in the "church"?

MuttleyLaff:


Well said

Smiling at underlined emboldened

Why shouldnt consenting adults, who persist in honest, lasting and loyal same sex relationship be allowed in the "church"?
Why are you opposing consenting adults, persisting in committed, honest, lasting and loyal same sex relationship being in the "church"?

They are not natural. They should not be encouraged. I sympathise with them. But that is not the natural order of life for humans. Are you gay? Just asking no insults intended.

The true Christians here on the Religion Section have to be very careful of the potpourri of false "prophets" that are roaming about here and turning the Bible upside down. Such are MuttleyLaff, MrPresident.1, etc. To them, morality is subjective, leaving them having very thin differences between them and professed atheists.

delishpot:
They are not natural

What is not natural in the circumstances surrounding committed, honest, lasting and loyal same sex relationship?

delishpot:
They should not be encouraged. I sympathise with them.

They should not be encouraged?
Should they not be encouraged to be in committed, honest, lasting and loyal same sex relationship?

delishpot:
But that is not the natural order of life for humans

You could only say that, if what's at hand, is a perfect world order, brother

delishpot:
Are you gay?

What help and/or understanding would it make, to know if I am gay or not?
Suffice to say, strong people stand for themselves, but stronger people stand for others.

delishpot:
Just asking no insults intended.

You can intend insult.
It doesnt matter, as I can take and handle insult(s)

Daviddson:
The true Christians here on the Religion Section
have to be very careful of the potpourri of false "prophets" that are roaming about here and turning the Bible upside down.
Such are MuttleyLaff, MrPresident1, etc.

[img]https://s1/images/MuttAmin.gif[/img]

Daviddson:
To them, morality is subjective, leaving them having very thin differences between them and professed atheists.

Dying to know but afraid to find out.
Face your fears and doubts,
and new worlds will open to you.

Daviddson, as Jefferson would say:
there is not a truth existing which I fear...
or would wish unknown to the whole world.

MuttleyLaff:
What is not natural in the circumstances surrounding committed, honest, lasting and loyal same sex relationship?

They should not be encouraged?
[s]Should they not be encouraged to be in committed, honest, lasting and loyal same sex relationship?
[/s]
You could only say that, if what's at hand, is a perfect world order, brother

What help and/or understanding would it make, to know if I am gay or not?
Suffice to say, strong people stand for themselves, but stronger people stand for others.

You can intend insult.
It doesnt matter, as I can take and handle insult(s)

Hahaha enjoy handling your insults. I have said my bit and you disagreeing would change nothing.Yes men should not be encouraged to have sex through the anus. No human should be turned into such even if he agrees to it. I am strongly against sin no matter if it is mutual or not. Prostitution is also done between two consenting adults same with adultery and gambling etc but it doesn't make it right. I don't care what you think from now till kingdom come. I can smell your demonic undertone hiding as an advocate of peace. Satan is working overtime on earth sha.

delishpot:
Hahaha enjoy handling your insults.

It's funny isnt it, as you too laughed. Hmm? Kikiki.

delishpot:
I have said my bit and you disagreeing would change nothing

You dont read to understand,
you read to reply with knee-jerk "I have said my bit" automatic and unthinking prejudiced comments.

delishpot:
I am strongly against sin no matter if it is mutual or not.

You dont know, what sin is.
You've completely missed the mark.

delishpot:
Prostitution is also done between two consenting adults same with adultery and gambling etc
but it doesn't make it right.

Where is faithfulness, commitment, honesty, lasting that's life-long and loyalty in prostitution or adultery done between two consenting adults, without a detriment to, betrayal of or cheating on another person, delishpot?

delishpot:
I don't care what you think from now till kingdom come.

SMH, I dont need nor want you to care about what, I think

delishpot:
I can smell your demonic undertone hiding as an advocate of peace.
Satan is working overtime on earth sha.

So a pupil should be satisfied to become like his teacher, and a slave like his master.
If the head of the family is called Beelzebul,
(i.e. Beelzebul is a title of Satan, which stresses he is the prince over demons (''demonic flies''))
the members of the family will be called even worse names!
- Matthew 10:25

You couldnt resist it
but I take the insult as a badge of honour, worn with pride, delishpot.
May God bless you real good. Thank you

MuttleyLaff:
It's funny isnt it, as you too laughed. Hmm? Kikiki.

You dont read to understand,
you read to reply with your "said my bit"

You dont know, what sin is.
You've completely missed the mark.

Where is faithfulness, commitment, honesty, lasting that's life-long and loyalty in prostitution or adultery done between two consenting adults, without a detriment to, betrayal of or cheating on another person, delishpot?

SMH, I dont need nor want you to care about what, I think

So a pupil should be satisfied to become like his teacher, and a slave like his master.
If the head of the family is called Beelzebul,
(i.e. Beelzebul is a title of Satan, which stresses he is the prince over demons (''demonic flies''))
the members of the family will be called even worse names!
- Matthew 10:25

You couldnt resist it
but I take the insult as a badge of honour, worn with pride, delishpot.
May God bless you real good. Thank you

I do not accept your gods blessing. I am set apart from you. Your blessing is more or less a curse. Many call on Jesus but they are lukewarm and shall be spat out on the last day. Jesus would NEVER had encouraged men who Bleep each other in the arse to continue in their sins. Even lucifer can quote the bible.

delishpot:
I do not accept your gods blessing.

I think you need a miracle or specsavers

delishpot:
I am set apart from you.

You're under an illusion
When all else fails, there conveniently, is always delusion.

I dont doubt you being nice chap
and I doubt you're wet behind the ears too.

The thing is, truth may sometimes hurt
but tut-tut-tut delusion, big time, harms.

delishpot:
Your blessing is more or less a curse.

All I'll say is, be careful what you wish for, brother delishpot.

delishpot:
Many call on Jesus but they are lukewarm

I pray to God that lukewarmness will not be your portion

delishpot:
and shall be spat out on the last day.

I pray to God, you wont be part of such spat out on the last day.

delishpot:
Jesus would NEVER had encouraged men who Bleep each other in the arse to continue in their sins.

SMH. On some levels, you are sooooooo green, my dear sire.

delishpot:
Even lucifer can quote the bible.

If you do really know the bible well enough, you wouldnt be caught out slipping over something so this elementary and typing the mistake

MuttleyLaff:
I think you need a miracle or specsavers

You're under an illusion
When all else fails, there conveniently, is always delusion.

I dont doubt you being nice chap
and I doubt you're wet behind the ears too.

The thing is, truth may sometimes hurt
but tut-tut-tut delusion, big time, harms.

All I'll say is, be careful what you wish for, brother delishpot.

I pray to God that lukewarmness will not be your portion

I pray to God, you wont be part of such spat out on the last day.

SMH. On some levels, you are sooooooo green, my dear sire.

If you do really know the bible well enough, you wouldnt be caught out slipping over something so this elementary and typing the mistake

I don hear you. I do not wish for what I will be scared of. I said Jesus would not support two men taking dicks in their asses. Do you think otherwise? or have you listened to those new agers who claim that jesus was something else?

delishpot:
I don hear you.
I do not wish for what I will be scared of

What's to be scared of?
After all, 2 Timothy 1:7 is instructive, with saying:
God has not given you the spirit of fear
but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

delishpot:
I said Jesus would not support...

You'll be surprised Jesus assisted.

delishpot:
two men taking dicks in their asses

The idea and thought of "men taking dicks in their asses" continually preoccupies and intrudes on your mind.
You have again harped on dicks and asses
What is your fascination with dicks in asses?
Why the fixation?
It can only be, lacking knowledge or lack of well-informed awareness in general,
that makes you think that gay sex has to, ALL be, penile-anal penetration or involve dicks in asses

delishpot:
Do you think otherwise?

I think, you should think and wonder,
and wonder and think

delishpot:
or have you listened to those new agers who claim that jesus was something else?

When you resort to bringing in new agers to present a quasi point, you're just demonstrating a knowledgeability that profoundly knows nothing
You simply, are groping in the dark, desperately hoping some way must be there

MuttleyLaff:
I would never dream of doing such thing

No one said he was the source of moral law.

Posing question at one person at a time 9inches.
Since as for now, it's Ubenedictus, who is faced,
does he, Ubenedictus, condone or condemn consenting adults honest, lasting and loyal same sex relationship?

9inches, you raised your head above the parapet, so I'll extend the question to you too,
do you condone or condemn consenting adults honest, lasting and loyal same sex relationship?
Or you neither condone nor condemn consenting adults honest, lasting and loyal same sex relationship?

I haven't yet responded to your post, am about to do that.

let me state I don't condone any type of same sex sexually active relationship... I would seriously advise against such.

unless of course it is non sexual...


loyalty and honesty are good things but even criminal gangs can manage such it doesn't make them right.

Ubenedictus:
I haven't yet responded to your post, am about to do that.

Before responding,
bear in mind, what's at hand, isn't a perfect world order, brother
We can later and/or further talk about other matters relating, besides this fact and truth

Ubenedictus:
let me state I don't condone any type of same sex sexually active relationship...

Ubenedictus, thank you for raising your head above the parapet and of much the thank you is for your honesty.
You dont condone consenting adults faithful, committed, honest, lasting that's life-long and loyal same-sex relationship having no detriment to, betrayal of or cheating on another person
but do you condemn consenting adults faithful, committed, honest, lasting that's life-long and loyal same-sex relationship having no detriment to, betrayal of or cheating on another person?

Or you neither condone nor condemn, consenting adults faithful, committed, honest, lasting that's life-long and loyal same-sex relationship having no detriment to, betrayal of or cheating on another person?

Ubenedictus:
I would seriously advise against such

What such, exactly, would you strongly advise against?

Ubenedictus:
unless of course it is non sexual...

Good, to see, someone for a change, giving ground
Now, explain what and all you mean by "unless of course it is non sexual"?

Ubenedictus:
loyalty and honesty are good things
but even criminal gangs can manage such it doesn't make them right

Ah, what is right.
Now, you will tell me, criminal gangs manage to do what is right,
and do so without a detriment to, betrayal of or cheating on another or other person(s), abi?

MuttleyLaff:
I would never dream of doing such thing

No one said he was the source of moral law.

Posing question at one person at a time 9inches.
Since as for now, it's Ubenedictus, who is faced,
does he, Ubenedictus, condone or condemn consenting adults honest, lasting and loyal same sex relationship?

9inches, you raised your head above the parapet, so I'll extend the question to you too,
do you condone or condemn consenting adults honest, lasting and loyal same sex relationship?
Or you neither condone nor condemn consenting adults honest, lasting and loyal same sex relationship?

Although my subjective opinion matters not on this issue, I'm going to answer nonetheless.

Going by the definition of the word "condone", you seem to be saying the behavior is morally wrong. Therefore, to condone a morally wrong behavior would, in itself, be morally wrong. Perhaps that's why you did not use the word "accept", which I'm going to use anyway.

I accept same sex relationship regardless of age, consent, honesty, sustainability and loyalty of the people involved as long as it does not involve the act of homosexuality which I condemn.

Disclaimer : This is an opinion formulated due to my reliance/faith on an objective source. I sincerely do not know what my real opinion would be if separated from this source.

As per main topic, no sinner should be forced out of the Church. Salvation is for everyone. In fact, salvation is for sinners only.


Bible Ref:

Mark 2:16-17
When the scribes who were Pharisees saw Jesus eating with these people, they asked His disciples, “Why does He eat with tax collectors and sinners?” On hearing this, Jesus told them, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”

Jeremiah 17:9
The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure--who can understand it?

Matthew 9:12
On hearing this, Jesus said, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick.

Matthew 9:13
But go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners."

Luke 5:31
Jesus answered, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick.

Luke 5:32
I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance."

1 Timothy 1:15
This is a trustworthy saying, worthy of full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the worst.

9inches:
Although my subjective opinion matters not on this issue, I'm going to answer nonetheless.

That's the spirit.
Take the bull by the horns

9inches:
Going by the definition of the word "condone", you seem to be saying the behavior is morally wrong.
Therefore, to condone a morally wrong behavior would, in itself, be morally wrong.
Perhaps that's why you did not use the word "accept", which I'm going to use anyway

If it makes you feel better, we can use the alternative or substitute verb "accept" in place of condone
Mind you, it wouldnt and doesnt make an iota of difference

9inches:
I accept same sex relationship regardless of age, consent, honesty, sustainability and loyalty of the people involved
as long as it does not involve the act of homosexuality which I condemn

1/ What exactly, is the act of homosexuality, that you've openly declared saying you condemn?
2/ Why do you condemn, whatever it is, you deem, to be the act of homosexuality?
3/ In a thoroughly and detailed manner, leaving no stone unturned, tell, what is homosexuality?
4/ Would you assist couple in a same sex relationship, who come to you, because of being in dire need of immediate help?

9inches:
Disclaimer :
This is an opinion formulated due to my reliance/faith on an objective source.
I sincerely do not know what my real opinion would be if separated from this source.

You know, thats why you've done a tongue in cheek
Instead of doing opinion(s),
rather do JUST fact(s) and truth(s) formulated due to a reliance and/or faith on the recognised objective source

9inches:
As per main topic, no sinner should be forced out of the Church.
Salvation is for everyone. In fact, salvation is for sinners only.
Bible Ref:
Mark 2:16-17
When the scribes who were Pharisees saw Jesus eating with these people, they asked His disciples,
“Why does He eat with tax collectors and sinners?” On hearing this, Jesus told them, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”
Jeremiah 17:9
The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure--who can understand it?
Matthew 9:12
On hearing this, Jesus said, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick.
Matthew 9:13
But go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
Luke 5:31
Jesus answered, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick.
Luke 5:32
I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance."
1 Timothy 1:15
This is a trustworthy saying, worthy of full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the worst.

It's not like the church isn't organic anyway
Let whoever is forcing out, hold on to the buildings then