budaatum:

Do you know that it is a sin to bear false witness? Why don't you exclude me from your Church for lying then? Or is it not written that in as much as I have broken one law I have broken them all? Please provide evidence for "pedophilai is legal in some religions" !

If you had been following the thread, you will note that the person who claimed Jesus endorsed homosexuality could not provide any evidence to support the claim despite him continously being asked to. Those of us who asked swept him aside, go read what responses he got.

Whether it is a sin or not only applies if I myself were choosing whether to commit the 'sin' or not. The punishment for sin is clearly laid out. If other persons choose to sin and go to hell, please explain to me when I, buda, changed my name to Jesus and decided to shed my blood to save them? Is my duty at best not just to cast my seeds and hope they fall on good soil? And if they don't fall on good soil, am I not told to say "shalom" and shake off their dust as I depart from them?

If my friends are smoking dope, they are not doing so with my lungs or my money so I don't quite see how they are asking me to "endorse, assist" or "accept" their lifestyle. Hopefully, I am friends with them for reasons way more important than the dope they smoke. The mere fact that I am their friends is sufficient for them to respect and have regard for me and not do their smoking in my face. And they are my friends because I respect them and have regard for them despite their weed smoking or sodomising.

They can only be asking me to assist their lifestyle if they ask me to pull down my trousers, bend over and let me fuq you, or ask me for money to buy their weed. And a simple "No thank you" should suffice if they are my friends. Forcing me is against the law! But more importantly, they can't be my friends if they resort to forcing me to do something against my will. And if I don't understand that, then something must definitely be wrong with me, and perhaps I should learn to be more cautious in the choice of friends I keep.

Just imagine if those dope smokers were my boss, would I tell them to resign because I don't like their smoking? Or if they tell me to go do something, should I say, "fuq off dope smoker. Go do it yourself"? If I don't like their lifestyle, I can bloody go work elsewhere, is the only recourse I have, unless their smoking is illegal in which case I call the cops on their ass. Otherwise, it's their lungs and their money and I should mind my own goddamn business! But if I can't, please know that I do have the choice of whom I am friends with and can very easily make them ex-friends if I wish to. The choice is not their's whether they are my friends. That choice is mine!

If my son reports me to his teacher for my not allowing him to wear a girls clothes, then I cannot really be a good parent now, can I? As far as my son should be concerned, I am god, and if my son does not understand "Honour your father and your mother", and "I am a jealous god", then perhaps its time for me to intensify my child's education in the path I want it to follow or just admit I am a crappy parent.

But just think, is the teacher going to come and tell me that I should spend money that I work for on things I do not support? Please be real and stop with the scaremongering! No one can come in my house and insist my son were a pink dress if I don't want him to. No school can ask a child to cross dress either. If you insist on these claims, provide evidence in support please. If my son reports me to his teacher, then my son has decided it wants different parents so the bastard should get the fuq out of my house and go live with it's teacher, and "sayanora ex-son!"

Do note, and I keep saying this but you ignore it. No one is persecuting anyone for their faith. If my faith or my god says smoking dope or performing sodomy is a sin, then no one can force me to commit that sin if I am concerned about my god. But I must understand that it's my god and my faith, and that I too cannot force other people to worship my god or adopt my faith. My god never said I must punish them. It in fact said I should love them despite their sin, and even that I should forgive them 70 times 70 times knowing full well that I would soon lose count and hopefully recognise the errors of my ways in bothering more about the twig in other peoples' eyes but ignoring the forest that is blinding me!

If I think other people commit a sin against my god, I can only tell them. Hopefully, my god keeps better records than I can, and can decide to thunder their ass when their 70 times 70 is up. But knowing my god, whom a day is like a thousand years to, I wouldn't be surprised if it's 70 times 70 is more like 70 million times 70 million. My god can be crazy like that sometimes!

The choice is mine whether I chose to continue engaging with people I judge to be committing sins against my god or not and not their's as you seem to assume. But I myself should be careful of the sin of hubris that makes me think its okay to say "thank you lord that I am not like that sodomiser over there." I might find my own teeth are the ones that are doing the gnashing!

O, and one last thing. I am an atheist, I don't do devils. If gods builds a house, the devils can't move in!

LOL. What sin and what false withness? Have you not heard of religion that permits men to marry underage girls so long as their father gives his permission and consent? That once the girl starts menstruating she can be bedded? Look at it this way, many girls start menstruating at age 8 or 10 that to such men means she is ripe to carry a chikd meaning she can be bedded. Yerima the former govnr of Zamfara state legally married a 13 year old girl and backed it with his religion and no one from the law or govt challenged him. She gave him some kids and then he divorced her and sent her back home. Is that not an act backed by religion? What lie or false withness is in that please? Where did I include you in a false withness? Please share.

You are an atheist that means we have nothing to argue about this issue esp if I look at it from religious point of view and you look at it from the there is no God and all man is free to do as he pleases point of view..
No one is forcing you to engage or not to engage with anyone. But then you should not force others to engage with those they choose not to engage with based on their faith. Dont you think? Anyway, we clearly dont understand each others point of view and you clearly dont get my explanations.

delishpot:

LOL. What sin and what false withness? Have you not heard of religion that permits men to marry underage girls so long as their father gives his permission and consent?

That once the girl starts menstruating she can be bedded? Look at it this way, many girls start menstruating at age 8 or 10 that to such men means she is ripe to carry a chikd meaning she can be bedded. Yerima the former govnr of Zamfara state legally married a 13 year old girl and backed it with his religion and no one from the law or govt challenged him. She gave him some kids and then he divorced her and sent her back home. Is that not an act backed by religion? What lie or false withness is in that please? Where did I include you in a false withness? Please share.

No, I have not heard of such a religion. What I have heard of is some stupid idiots trying to use religion to justify their own acts of stupidity. And that's more the reason why we pass laws punishable here on earth. I have bothered to post BBC's report below. Read it. Egypt, a country more Islamic than Nigeria says "the embassy "will follow the issue" because it is illegal in Egypt to marry an underage girl".

Nigerian denies child bride claim
A Nigerian senator accused of marrying a 13-year-old Egyptian girl says he has done nothing wrong.

Ahmad Sani Yerima, 49, told the BBC that his fourth wife was not 13, but would not say how old she was.

He denied breaking the law but said he would not respect any law that contradicted his religious beliefs.

The Nigerian senate ordered an investigation after complaints from women's groups but the senator said he did not care what the groups thought.

A spokesman for the Egyptian embassy in Nigeria has said the girl is still at school in Egypt.

“ As a Muslim, as I always say, I consider God's law and that of his prophet above any other law ”
Senator Ahmed Sani Yerima
"Nobody has complained to the embassy in respect of the girl," Mohammed Saber told the AFP news agency.

He said however that the embassy "will follow the issue" because it is illegal in Egypt to marry an underage girl.

Mr Sani was the governor of Zamfara state, where he oversaw the introduction of Sharia law - for the first time in a northern state - in 1999.

'Detractors'

He said he felt this was behind the uproar over his marriage.

"I consider all those complaining about this issue as detractors, because since 1999... many people have been waging different kind of wars against me," he told the BBC's Hausa Service by telephone from Egypt.

The senator said he had followed "standard rules for marriage in Islam".

“ This very evil act should not be seen to be perpetrated by one of our distinguished legislators ”
Mma Wokocha Women's Medical Association head
"I don't care about the issue of age since I have not violated any rule as far as Islam is concerned," he said.

"History tells us that Prophet Muhammad did marry a young girl as well. Therefore I have not contravened any law. Even if she is 13, as it is being falsely peddled around.

"If I state the age, they will still use it to smear Islam," he said.

The BBC's Caroline Duffield in Lagos says newspaper reports of the marriage have created a storm among human rights groups.

Female senators - lawyers and doctors - who are protesting say that they fear for the child's health.

"What we are concerned with is that our minors, the girl child, should be allowed to mature, before going into marriage," Mma Wokocha, president of the Women's Medical Association and one of those behind a petition, told the BBC.

"This very evil act should not be seen to be perpetrated by one of our distinguished legislators... that is what we are saying.''

The senator is reported to have paid a dowry of $100,000 (£66,000) to the child's parents - and to have brought the girl into Nigeria from Egypt.

The women's groups want Mr Sani to be taken to court, to face a fine and a jail sentence.

They say he has contravened the Child Rights Act of 2003 which, although not ratified by all Nigeria's 36 states, is law in the capital, Abuja, where he lives and where his marriage is believed to have taken place.

"As a Muslim, as I always say, I consider God's law and that of his prophet above any other law," Mr Sani said.

"I will not respect any law that contradicts that and whoever wants to sanction me for that is free to do that."

Newspaper reports have also accused the senator of having previously married a 15-year-old girl in 2006.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/world/africa/8651043.stm

Published: 2010/04/30 09:02:29 GMT

© BBC 2018

delishpot:

You are an atheist that means we have nothing to argue about this issue esp if I look at it from religious point of view and you look at it from the there is no God and all man is free to do as he pleases point of view..
No one is forcing you to engage or not to engage with anyone. But then you should not force others to engage with those they choose not to engage with based on their faith. Dont you think? Anyway, we clearly dont understand each others point of view and you clearly dont get my explanations.

Where did you get the idea that my atheism makes me look at it from an "all man is free to do as he pleases point of view"? Am I not arguing with you here that you, a man, are not allowed to do as you please if the law of the land says you mustn't?

You want people to be allowed to impose their understanding of their religion on society. And you wish to impose your religious ideas of homosexuality on everyone. But as soon as some idiot tries to use his religion to justify pedophilia, all of a sudden what was good for your goose is no more good for his gander. You wish to oppose it!

Please speak for yourself if you do not understand the discussion! I fully understand your point of view. I just don't share your point of view. And neither does UK law which is what is being discussed here. And I am not forcing anyone to do anything. The law is. In UK, the law is made by the people. It is not dropped down from heaven some 3000 years or so ago. Perhaps that's because they actually understand where the book came from and don't think like Nigerians who think God wrote it, I'd have you consider!

If you don't want to worship with homosexuals, you don't have to come to CoE. You can worship your god anyhow you want in your bedroom where you get to make the rules and decide who enters. That's your business. Or you can bloody well leave and go live in a country where gods make the laws! But in UK, you live within the law or you pay the price. You can't use your religion, or your faith, or your god or your church or your mosque or your holy book to justify marrying a 13 year old. And neither can you use them to justify discrimination against homosexuals. I just hope Nigeria could someday learn to impose its laws too instead of bowing to religious idiocy, or some peoples' understanding or idea of their gods or their faith!

May the peace of the Lord be upon you.

budaatum:
Do you know that it is a sin to bear false witness?...

If you had been following the thread,
you will note that the person who claimed Jesus endorsed homosexuality
could not provide any evidence to support the claim despite him continously being asked to.
Those of us who asked swept him aside, go read what responses he got...

[img]https://s1/images/MuttMJpopcorn.gif[/img]
Bud, I've been engrossed in reading, the giving and taking, going on between you and deli
I was almost entirely, enjoying reading delightfully and with pleasure, the exchanges
until suddenly when, over your flippant remark above, I got struck with overwhelming shock and amazement

This is a still young thread, as it hasnt hit the 10-page mark yet
so will be pretty easy to present the facts, as it seems some hadn't PROPERLY been following the thread.

---

---

delishpot Page 0:
I don hear you. I do not wish for what I will be scared of.
I said Jesus would not support two men taking dicks in their asses.
Do you think otherwise? or have you listened to those new agers who claim that jesus was something else?

MuttleyLaff Page 0:
You'll be surprised Jesus assisted.

delishpot Page 1:
Keep dreaming and claiming whatever. I am not groping. I know what I know.
Jesus NEVER encourages sin

MuttleyLaff Page 1:
The world needs dreamers.
I dream of a better tomorrow

What you know, is an illusion of know

Where on this thread, have you read anyone say, Jesus encouraged or encourages sin?

Because of your fixation, your fascination with dicks in asses
The idea and thought of "men taking dicks in their asses" continually preoccupying and intruding on your mind,
prompted asking you the question:
What makes you think that gay sex has to, ALL be, penile-anal penetration or involve dicks in asses?

You've been shown up to lacking knowledge and a victim lack of well-informed awareness in general
that's why you've changed tune, to:
"Show me a gay couple that throughout their sexual relations never did anal penetration"

delishpot, you've grown tired of saying:
"Jesus would not support two men taking dicks in their asses"
and so now switched to:
"....how Jesus would have encouraged or enabled them..."

Can you now see, delishpot, how you're groping in the dark, desperately hoping, some way out, must be there for you.

I dare you.
I will soooooo much love to see you, in a thoroughly and detailed manner, leaving no stone unturned,
show pages from the bible, where Sodomy was rejected.
You mustnt only show but must extensively and in depth, talk about it all, too

delishpot Page 1:
Bla Bla Bla all I said is.....
Show me proof from the bible where jesus said being gay is acceptable unto God.

MuttleyLaff Page 1:
Show me proof from the bible where Jesus said being gay is NOT acceptable unto God.

delishpot Page 1:
Prove your stance or forever remain silent.
I aint gat time for your long epistles of quotes and breaking down.

MuttleyLaff Page 1:
delishpot, get a grip.
True guidance, is like a small torch, in a dark forest.
It doesn't show everything at once, but gives enough light, for the next step, to be safe

delishpot Page 1:
Show me with proof why I am wrong.
Show me in the bible.

MuttleyLaff Page 1:
You earlier said, you can show pages from the bible where Sodomy was rejected
but you went mute, when told, you mustnt only just show
but must extensively and in depth, talk about it all, too, as well

Please show, with proofs, why you're right with your homophobia.
Show from or show in the bible

delishpot Page 1:
What type of bible do you read again?

MuttleyLaff Page 1:
Same bible you read.
Everybody walks according to their pace

delishpot Page 1:
I will sound it from now till kingdom come that Jesus would never support two men or two women engaging in sexual act.
It is an abomination

MuttleyLaff Page 1:
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman,
both of them have committed an abomination:
they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
- Leviticus 20:13

What exactly is the abomination here?
I bet you havent a clue, what the context of the abomination is, in that verse.

I know you love your catfish delicacies, know you love your lobster, know you love your crab soups, know you love your bushmeats
Should I throw in rabbit, also for you?
Now tell, delishpot, are any of the lot above, abomination enough for you, and so, not to eat?

The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man,
neither shall a man put on a woman's garment:
for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.
- Deuteronomy 22:5

What of times when you put on your partner's chequered shirt or boxers?
Oops, look at what Deuteronomy 22:5 says about you. Tut-tut-tut.
The point here, is that we often throw words about, without understanding them
and unwittingly use them in our typical relaxed and unconcerned attitude

Moving along, Johanna Siguroardottir, Leo Varadkar, Xavier Bettel, Ana Brnabic, Shabnam Mausi, Elio Di Rupo etcetera
I almost forgot to chip in Alan Turing, too
delishpot, you know these guys, right?
OK, please tell, delishpot, are any of them not supported by Jesus?

You dont even know the context and what the original word (i.e. toevah) translated as "abomination" means

delishpot Page 2:
No gays should be allowed in the church unless they are new converts seeking deliverance

budaatum Page 2 STAR REPLY:

So, how does this work?
Do you get people to fill out a questionnaire, "are you gay?"
Or do you only allow people with non-same gender partners into your church?
Or perhaps just have a testing room in the church to check gayness?
You could place women in it to test the men, and men in it to test the women.

The good thing is that most churches are learning they are not God, and that Jesus is a god of sinners.
You don't need him if you already have salvation!

budaatum Page 2:
Let's try homosexuality.

MuttleyLaff Page 2:
Homosexual and/or homosexuality, actually is a word barely 200 years old.

The word "homosexual" was invented in 1868, and the word "homosexuality" certainly was not around in Biblical times

Suffice to say, it is glaring what Paul's "malakois" and "arsenokoites" in 1 Timothy 1:10 and 1 Corinthians 6:9 are

budaatum Page 2:
Well, we are not talking about the word,
but the act itself which is as old as humans, probably.
As you said,
"People have been sleeping together with others, having same gender or sex, as them, long before the Greek ever did"

budaatum Page 2:
Did you know it used to be a highly valued act in the Greek society long before the arrival of Jesus?
It was not unusual for wealthy Greeks, and Romans, to have their favorite male on the side, and for centuries after.

It was considered beneficial for the young male who acquired a teacher and benefactor (a "sugerdaddy", effectively),
and for the benefactor who acquired a soyoyo of the male form.
However, there were always those who stood against it and the history of the Greeks and the Romans is replete with acceptance of homosexuality, and its non-acceptance, and the laws were written accordingly.
Britain is a classic example of this.

MuttleyLaff Page 2:
People have been sleeping together with others, having same gender or sex, as them, long before the Greek ever did
Jesus didnt stand against same sex relationship.
I am having misty eyes writing this...
Jesus was even willing to visit someone in a same sex relationship but persuaded it wasnt necessary
God is just too Good

budaatum Page 2:
I have no recollection of this myself.
But if true, its commendable that you mention it.
Source please

MuttleyLaff Page 2:
It is true.

Do you think, I made up that:
"Jesus was even willing to visit someone in a same sex relationship but persuaded it wasnt necessary"

The source is the bible

budaatum Page 2:
I first thought Muttley posted it,
but he doesn't write so clearly so I searched and found its source.
Next time do include links please. People get vilified on here for plagiarism.

Personally, while I don't think the Bible mentions the act of homosexuality
certain verses have been pointed out that it might.
If it implicitly was against the act, that would have been its death as people become more tolerant and unacceptable of such bigotry and narrowness.

budaatum Page 3:
I'd like to see that evidence too muttley.

In all my reading about Christ, I can't recall him engaging with homosexuals.
They don't seem to have turned up in the New Testament until Paul started ranting about them.

MuttleyLaff Page 3:
Truth crushed to earth is truth still and like a seed will rise again, says Jefferson.

"Did you know it used to be a highly valued act in the Greek society long before the arrival of Jesus?
It was not unusual for wealthy Greeks, and Romans, to have their favorite male on the side, and for centuries after"
- budaatum ©

"It was considered beneficial for the young male who acquired a teacher and benefactor (a "sugerdaddy", effectively),
and for the benefactor who acquired a soyoyo of the male form."
- budaatum ©

"No Israelite, whether man or woman, may become a temple prostitute."
- Deuteronomy 23:17

There were even male shrine prostitutes in the land;
the people engaged in all the detestable practices of the nations the LORD had driven out before the Israelites.
- 1 Kings 14:24

Committed, faithful, honest, lasting life time same sex relationships have been there from time immemorial Bud
Bud, Paul wasnt ranting about that.

What Paul was ranting about was the infidelity, promiscuity and the cult practice of having sex with patrons as a form of deity worship.
This custom was rampant and happened in the Old Testament in the lands before the Israelites arrived too.

Bud do you remember the screenshot I pasted
The one about with Leviticus', showing, what, is an abomination unto you and what, is abomination, to God
The screenshot clearly detailed what these are

We know Leviticus 20:13 is Leviticus 18:22 and vice versa
Paul actually re-echoed them with 1 Timothy 1:10 and 1 Corinthians 6:9,
because the problem which isnt about same sex relationships with fidelity
but something else entirely, reared its head with the Gentile

There is this strong common thread through Leviticus 20:13, 1 Timothy 1:10 and 1 Corinthians 6:9 and it ties them together
but it eludes the most astute

Peoples perception of the matter isnt what they think and learned it to be.
First step, will be, to review 1 Timothy 1:10 and 1 Corinthians 6:9, and look into what "malakois" and "arsenokoites" really means,
just as I earlier advised 9inches to do just that
but he opted to plastering that Catholic magazine entire article here instead.

Milk cow(s) alright but make your own cheese
Dont offer bottled milk, passed on, as if yours

The epiphany of what the "the detestable customs that were practiced"
in Leviticus 18:22, Leviticus 20:13, 1 Timothy 1:10 and 1 Corinthians 6:9 were, will occur, after the review

It is an insufferable practice
and that's why God is reprehensive about the detestable custom being practised

It's the only ONE reason that this sexual sin,
that this particular sexual immorality, is condemned as committing abomination unto God
but other sexual sins or other sexual immoralities like,
adultery in Leviticus 20:10, incest in Leviticus 20:11-14 or bestiality in Leviticus 20:15,
escape the mention to be condemned as an abomination unto God
or as one thing, God dislikes intensely

So many other places in the bible about this satanic ritual, sex orgy and detestable custom being practised
a few case in points, like Deuteronomy 23:17 and 1 Kings 14:24, are mirror versions of Paul's 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 and 1 Timothy 1:10.
God, so much, disliked intensely, the practice.
Imagine the cheek of it. Excuse the pun

I can show you THE evidence of Jesus engaging with homosexual(s),
but it will be in camera, and under conditions.
Bud, you dont know how shockingly close you were, in knowing about this, with that your above inverted commas remark up there.
You will beat yourself up Bud, for not being consciously aware of it.

cc Ubenedictus

delishpot Page 3:
why would it take conditions to show a passage from that same bible where Jesus welcomed the lifestyle?

MuttleyLaff Page 3:
Have you ever thought about quoting me properly and correctly, when you ask to be shown the passage in the bible.
Maybe, just maybe, I might if you start or begin to do so.

It is impossible for a person to learn, what he thinks he already knows, that's why all you read is blah blah blah blah

Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters, cannot be trusted with important matters.
Is your moniker ID budaatum?
Yes, I mentioned I'll under conditions, in camera, show budaatum, but not you nau

I aint selling you anything
besides, I am not responsible for convincing you

I am not pointing it out for you, especially when you arent ready

SMH.
Yes, Jesus welcomed someone living that lifestyle and was glad to help him and his partner out
You can grovel, shout till your throat goes sore or crawl over broken bottles as much as you like,
the offer to show the passage in camera but on conditions was extended to budaatum and not you

You are not proven, worthy yet, to be privy to that information or passage

I can give a list of a fair amount of sinners Jesus visited or helped where He publicly discouraged their lifestyle and meant it
one thing is certain, He never discouraged the lifestyle of consenting adults in a honest, loving, committed, lasting a lifetime same gender sexual relationship

He even praised the partner of the consenting adults in the honest, loving, committed, lasting a lifetime same gender sexual relationship

You are the alawada keri keri joker here
Everyone, except you knows, the offer was to budaatum and not you

---

---

Now that the memory has been refreshened.
Budaatum, for the umpteenth time, I can, I will provide the evidence to support the claim that Jesus assisted gays
but it'll be messaged to you in camera, and under conditions.

Budaatum, we have, our more than one way, means, of reaching each other in camera,
so just tell, if you're OK with the arrangement, then after that, I'll advise you of the term(s)

MuttleyLaff:
Now that the memory has been refreshened.

Budaatum, we have, our more than one way, means, of reaching each other in camera,
so just tell, if you're OK with the arrangement, then after that, I'll advise you of the term(s)

All this story just to inform me of terms again muttley! You tire me.

Post your terms and arrangements in the more than one way camera please and stop the wriggling. I would love to have Bible verses to wave in front of the anti-gay brigade.

budaatum:
All this story just to inform me of terms again muttley! You tire me.

Post your terms and arrangements in the more than one way camera please and stop the wriggling

I even tire myself.

Yes, because you're a GOAT,
and only one worthy on the thread that showed genuine, sincere and honest interest
plus the hunger, craving, glutton for information, swayed to share and go into depth with you on the matter.

Let me know if you accept and agree to having it done in camera, then I'll holler you, in camera there, what the terms are.
If the terms suit you, then we can rock and roll

We going to have a ball, so look forward to filling your boots up.

budaatum:
I would love to have Bible verses to wave in front of the anti-gay brigade.

Wrong move.
Premature ejaculation (PE) loading things

MuttleyLaff:

Let me know if you accept and agree to having it done in camera, then I'll holler you, in camera there, what the terms are.

budaatum:

Post your terms and arrangements in the more than one way camera please and stop the wriggling. I would love to have Bible verses to wave in front of the anti-gay brigade.

Hollad! Again!

budaatum:
Hollad!

What does "Hollad!" mean?

budaatum:
Again!

What's with "Again!"
I said:
"Let me know if you accept and agree to having it done in camera,
then I'll holler you, in camera there, what the terms are."
but you havent, made it clear nor come back yet to say, whether or not, you dont mind, the in camera arrangement

I accept muttley. Holla, for christsakes! In camera if it pleases you.

[img]https://s1/images/MuttleysGato.gif[/img]