Welcome, Guest: Register On Nairaland / LOGIN! / Trending / Recent / New
Stats: 3,152,316 members, 7,815,579 topics. Date: Thursday, 02 May 2024 at 02:48 PM

Delta Igbo, Bendel Igbo: What Does That Even Mean. - Culture (107) - Nairaland

Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Culture / Delta Igbo, Bendel Igbo: What Does That Even Mean. (244432 Views)

Why Dont Yorubas Claim Istekiri, The Way Igbos Claim Ikwerre, Delta Igbo? / Delta Igbo,bendel Igbo,ikwerre Igbo,do They Really Matter To The Igbo Nation? / Who Is An Igbo/what Makes Someone An Igbo? (2) (3) (4)

(1) (2) (3) ... (104) (105) (106) (107) (108) (109) (110) (Go Down)

Re: Delta Igbo, Bendel Igbo: What Does That Even Mean. by tonychristopher: 2:24pm On Dec 01, 2013
Pharoh: @Afam

You are getting the point and concerning what we want to be called, it is simply Ikas or Ukwuani ( Ndokwa ). We don't want to be called bini or igbo, we don't need to be called igbo before we regard each other as family and that is the point people are missing. We know where our political allegiance lies and who we feel at home most. Just get past the identity issue, pursue collective development and relations. Identity is built over a very long period of years if there is no application of force.

People are quick to point at other examples around the world like the Chinese, Spanish and French but if you take the time to investigate how they came about it, you will not be screaming everybody are Igbos. The white man met us a little over hundred years ago and they is where the Yoruba and igbo identity start developing from. If the white man did not came to colonize us, i seriously doubt if there will be anything like Yoruba or Igbo in 2013. So it is time for igbos to look beyond the igbo identity issue and see where they can joint and collective aspiration with people you consider as family.


I do get your drift now,I think what you are saying is that ukwuani is IGBOID but doesn't want to be called igbo but its igbo family just like tiger wants to be known as tiger not to be called a feline that is in cat family...it still doesn't make sense to me.where does your relationship lies and where do you feel at home . is it IGBOID of edoid group. atleast I know core Niger delta groups...igbo is an ethnic nationality inside it we got tribes just like twelve tribes of Israel. do you know igbo population is more than 47…million worldwide,ATLEAST we are even bigger thank some countries if we decide to go on our own. what do you do to the abohs and IKAS that say they are igbo?
Re: Delta Igbo, Bendel Igbo: What Does That Even Mean. by tonychristopher: 2:31pm On Dec 01, 2013
THE HISTORY OF UMUKWATA AND OWAH ABBI
Shortly after the foundation of Aboh, a number of settlements were made as
offshoots of that migration. This was necessitated by the congested nature of the
riverine clans, which permitted no further expansion. Different generals who
accompanied the Aboh party therefore decided to return to Ukwuani hinterland
where they had earlier observed wide expanse of unoccupied land as they
previously migrated southward. The most important of these settlements are the
Umu-Nze clans comprising Abbi, Amai, and Umukwata. It is generally believed
that the founders of these independent settlements originally migrated from
different directions but converged later at Aboh. They stayed here for some
years but as a consequence of the disagreement with Aboh people, they left
Aboh under the family name of Umu-Nze (Descendants of Nze) to found their
own settlements. They moved northwards together with their families as nomads
and when they arrived at their present site of Umukwata, the party established
their first camp. After staying together for many years, Amai moved westward
and founded Amai; Efi migrated further west founded Orogun and Amacha went
southwest and founded Abbi. Ukwata, the oldest man among the leaders was
left with his family to occupy the original settlement, which, his descendant
named Umukwata (the descendants of Ukwata) after their father, Clan versions
however, appear to differ in some details from this general view.
The founder of Abbi Clan. One Amaha from Echalla-uku (the elders of Abbi are
not sure of the location of his town but it is surmised to be inEastern Nigeria)
and his brother Ukwata were said ‘to have strayed to Aboh settlement while
hunting. At Aboh, they joined Efi, and Amai and later migrated with them to
Ukwuani hinterland as a result of a quarrel with the Aboh people. After staying
as a group for many years, Amacha with his family separated from the brother
at the present site of Umukwata and journeyed southwest to lsu-Afo where he
founded the Elovie and Umia quarters(jointly called Echella) of Abbi. Amacha’s
hunting and nickname was Abbi. This popular name was therefore chosen to
represent his settlement instead of his real name. The third quarter, Okwele is
believed to been founded by a group of hunters who strayed on their journey
southward fromBenin.
As the settlement expanded, a group of people migrated from Umia quarter of
Echalla to found Umuolu. These people were mainly from Onyugba family who
went to Umuolu to fish and cultivate a brand of yam crop called “okom’. From
Ogbe-ole section of Elovie quarter in Echala, the family of Utu packed away to
Akoku where after many years founded the quarter of Umutu at Akoku later a
dispute arose between Umutu and Obedeti quarters. This resulted in a bitter
fight, involving loss of many lives. Umutu evenal1y fled from Akoku to their
farmland near the bank of the Ethiope end, which led to the foundation of the
present town ofUmutu. Another section of Abbi people migrated from Umia
quarter and Ukanabouku section of Elovie quarter and settled in Umukwata
farmland close to theEthiopeRiverand called their settlement Owa-Abbi This
settlement was allowed, because of the special relationship between Amacha and
Ukwata.How Obinomba came to be will be published after the launching.
THE HISTORY OF AMAI
Amai tradition claims that the founder of the Clan was one Amai, a elephant
hunter from Igarra, who in course of his hunting reached the present site. Seeing
that it was a pleasant country, he returned to Igarra and persuaded a number
of his friends and relations to accompany him and settle there. Amai had four,
sons: Ekwum, Nge, Aguma and Osele who later founded the Umu-ekwum, Amai-
nge, Ishikagima, and Umu-osele quarters of Amai. The fifth quarter, an emigrant
from Ubulu in Asaba Division founded Umubu, although he married an Amai
woman Ekwum was the eldest son of Amai so that his quarter ought to have
been the most senior in Amai Clan but Nge cunningly usurped this position by
robbing him the custody of Aboh
Nze royal cult. Earlier the Obi of Aboh had invited the children of Amai many
years after their fathers death, to come to Aboh and receive the royal cult as the
symbol of their authority and alliance with Aboh. The eldest member of the Clan
was to be the custodian of the cult. Ekwum requested his junior brother, Nge to
carry the cult as they were returning from Aboh but on getting to Amai, Nge
refused to hand over the cult to Ekwum and eventually became its priest. This
royal/religious authority from Aboh not only robbed Ekwum and his descendants
their rightful status in the Clan but earned Nge and his quarter supremacy over
all other quarters of Amai so that today the Okpala-uku of Amai-Nge is regarded
as the most senior no matter his age among the five Okpala-uku representing
the five quarters of Amai Clan.
THE HISTORY OF UMUTU BY J.O.UTI OF UMUTU
Between the tenth and fifteenth centuries there had been movements of tribes
from one location to the other in the area now known asNigeria. These great
waves of migration continued over the centuries for reasons which we can now
figure out. Intertribal wars were common because of the struggle to occupy
fertile lands for development. As people moved they were in family groups and
joined people who had left in advance for their sites for greener pastures.
The study of Okolugbo, a renowned Ukwuani scholar identified “three waves of
migration” of the different communities which formed Ukwuani country before
the arrival of the British people in the area. From the stories handed down from
generation to generation in Umutu Community and from the relics available in
the community the people of Umutu strongly believe that they are children of
Utu whose ancestors migrated from somewhere in the Eastern side of the Niger
to Aboh on the bank of the river Niger. The exact location of the place in the
East is not known although it is believed to be the same place as Echalla-Uku
from where Amacha the founder of Abbi migrated through Aboh. This explains
the reason for the movement of Umutu people to Abbi in the second stage of
their migration. Umutu people settled at Aboh with other families for centuries.
They had one “Ndiche”, their family totem which they carried from their original
home. This totem bound them together as members of Utu family who had one
“Okpala-Uku’ and one “Ada”.
As a result of frequent invasions from the Eastern War like tribes, Umutu people
continued their migration in search of more peaceful land for development. They
eventually arrived in Abbi and Settled in Ogbole quarters where their known kits
and kins from Echala-Uku resided. While at Abbi the community experienced
several invasions from the Eastern war-like tribes which were resisted. Many of
the invaders were either captured and enslaved or killed
MIGRATION TO AKOKU
By the time the people of Umutu had lived in Abbi for several years they had
become known with the age old appellation to their name as “Umutu Igili Ogbu-
Orni” because of their fame for the production of a type of white yam known as
“Omi” That appellation of “Igili Ogbu-omi” still remains in their present site and
their kits and kins left behind at Ogbole quarter at Abbi.
THE STORY OF THE CAUSE OF MIGRATION OF UMUTU PEOPLE TO AKOKU
We have been told how invasions from Eastern War-like tribes continued at Abbi
and how they were repulsed. The invaders finding that they no longer succeeded
in their attacks made a charm which was placed on palm trees for the
destruction of lives of inhabitants of the quarter. According to the story, it was
calculated that whenever the palm fruits were ripe the people of Umutu at Abbi
would die according to the number of fruits that fell from the trees Many people
died as a result of the effect of this charm The cause of this heavy death toll was
found out from an oracle The town was in a panic and the quarter involved fled
in search of safer and more peaceful land. This happened in the time of Okpala
Oke of Umuonya family Okpala Oke, the Okpala-Uku of the quarter was left
behind by his children because they felt h was too old to be earned along Okpala
Oke was thus left in grief to die with no one by him He therefore swore and
pronounced a cause that no member of his family would live long enough to be
an Okpala-Uku in future. He wept and died in grief in his departed quarter at
Abbi. This ancestor was later appeased and the cause was removed in 1939
when a member of Umuonya family became an Okpala-Uku elect at Umutu. It
was removed through a ceremony known in Ukwuani as ‘Isue Alua” in which it is
assumed that the living is forgiven by the dead after the dead has been
appeased.
Umutu people had migrated on their way to a new land running for dear life and
looking for fertile land. They moved in family groups until they arrived at a place
near the present town ofUtagba-Uno. The community still experienced some
invasions even when fertile land had not been found. The people moved further
to a site near the presentAkokuTownwhere they met Obeti, Ugulu and Umuaja
camped in different locations. The new groups were friendly people Thus families
of Umutu emigrants settled in their own camp at Akoku with the other friendly
quarters.
Re: Delta Igbo, Bendel Igbo: What Does That Even Mean. by tonychristopher: 2:44pm On Dec 01, 2013
View
Re: ORIGIN OF DELTA IGBO INDISPUTABLE - UWUECHUE
« Reply #550 on: February 13, 2012, 01:32:11 PM »
OGBUEFI, I THANK YOU ONCE MORE ON YOUR INSIGHT ON THE ANIOMA
QUESTION, WHICH IS THEIR VARIOUS ORIGINS. YOU DID WELL IN EXPLAINING
NDOKWA AND ABOH ORIGINS. SECONDLY ON THE VEXED ISSUE OF EZE CHIMA,
OR CHIME.
THE FULANIS CONQUERED THE HAUSAS SOME 200 YEARS AGO AND HAVE NOT
LOST THEIR FULFIDE LANGUAGE. THE FULANIS ARE A MINORITY IN HAUSA LAND
AND STILL CONTROL IT ADMINISTRATIVELY. FULFIDE IS STILL SPOKEN VERY WELL
IN THE NORTH BY THE FULANIS.
THE YORUBAS IN KOGI WHO ARE CALLED OKUN STILL SPEAK THEIR YORUBA
LANGUAGE CENTURIES AFTER.
MY FIRST QUESTION IS HOW COME THE CONQUERING BENIN PEOPLE LOST THEIR
LANGUAGE ALMOST IMMEDIATELY IN THE TOWNS THEY TOOK OVER?
SECONDLY SOME OF THIS CLANS RULED BY BENIN DESCENDANTS BEAR THE
PREFIX UMU , WHICH IN ENGLISH IS THE CHILDREN OF . . . . THE PEOPLE ALSO
ANSWER IGBO SOUNDING NAMES.
THIRDLY, ON NDONI, WHICH YOU SAID MEANS NDE ONUIYI - PEOPLE WHO
SETTLED AT THE MOUTH OF THE RIVER. THIS NAME IS STILL IGBO AND YET THE
ARE OF IBIBIO/EFIK, ABOH AND OGBIA IN BAYELSA STATE. YOU FORGOT TO
MENTION THAT THE OHAFIA PEOPLE PASSED THROUGH NDONI TO UBEKU IN
UMAHIA AND FINALLY SETTLED IN THEIR PRESENT PLACE IN BENDE LOCAL GOVT
OF ABIA STATE. THE OHAFIAS CLAIMED THE LEFT BENIN DURING THE UPHEAVALS
IN THE KINGDOM (15 - 17 CENTURY) YOU KNOW THAT WHERE EVER THE AROS
GO, THEY TAKE THE OHAFIAS, IGBERRES AND THE NTEM PEOPLE ALONG BECAUSE
THE GUARANTEE SECURITY AND CLEAR THE WAY. THE SAME GOES FOR NRI
PEOPLE. WHERE EVER THEY GO THEY TAKE AWKA PEOPLE TO PROTECT THEM.
SORRY FOR THE SLIGHT DIGRESSION. MY POINT HERE IS THAT THE AROS AND
OHAFIA PEOPLE CLAIM ED THAT THEY DID BUSINESS WITH THE BENINS IN
CENTURIES GONE BY BUT LEFT DUE TO DISTURBANCES. MOST OF THEM THAT
LEFT NEVER MADE IT AND SETTLED IN VARIOUS PLACES. EMPHASIS THEIRS NOT
MINE.
MOST OF THE TOWNS IN NDOKWA AND ABOH FOUNDED BY BENIN PEOPLE BEAR
THE PREFIX UMU BEFORE THEIR NAMES. HOW COME?
LET US LOOK AT THE POSSIBILITY THAT IT WAS POSSIBLE THAT IGBOS HAD LIVED
IN BENIN JUST LIKE YORUBAS, IGALAS AND IJAWS. DUE TO DISTURBANCES A LOT
OF THEM FLED BENIN AND MOST COULD NOT TRACE WHERE THEY ACTUALLY
CAME FROM. SINCE IT IS POSSIBLE THAT SOME OF THEM WOULD HAVE LIVED IN
BENIN FOR 2 - 3 GENERATIONS OR MORE. IT BECAME EASY FOR THEM TO CLAIM
BENIN WHEN ACTUALLY SOME OF THEIR ANCESTORS WERE IGBO. EMPHASIS
MINE.
FINALLY OGBUEFI I WILL LIKE IF YOU COULD DO MORE RESEARCH ON THE ARO -
OHAFIA ANGLE BECAUSE THEY TOO CLAIM THAT EZE CHIMA MUST HAVE BEEN
ONE OF THEM. THANKS, THE RESEARCH CONTINUES
BEFORE I FORGET HOW COME THE BENINS HAVE NO RECORDS OF EZE CHIMA
Re: Delta Igbo, Bendel Igbo: What Does That Even Mean. by somegirl1: 3:47pm On Dec 01, 2013
Pharoh: @some-girl

You mind i ask you some questions?

Sure dear, shoot......
Re: Delta Igbo, Bendel Igbo: What Does That Even Mean. by HopeAtHand: 4:14pm On Dec 01, 2013
Afam4eva:
I'm talking of the Igbo nonenclature and not the fact that people that speak Igbo languages and practice similar culture have existed probably as old as the world itself. My point is that before the British came, there was nothing like Igbo. As much the people called Igbo today existed, there was no common name that they were not by. Igbos identified with their various clans eg Ngwa, Nkanu, Nsukka, Owerri, Ikwerre, Ukwuani etc. The using of the term Igbo was an attempt to bring all these people under one umbrella for easy administration and convenience.


My vexation with Afam4eva is his insistence in mentioning ikwerre and ibo in same sentence at slightest opportunity..Pls stop it, you and Abagworo are triyng too hard to conceive an unholy matrimony between ikwerres and ibos..Its lyk saying Spanish and Portuguese are the same, no matter how close they seem, they are two different people.

Likewise Ikwerre and ibo are two enturely diffrent groups, dnt insult us by calling us a clan of ibo tribe again.
Re: Delta Igbo, Bendel Igbo: What Does That Even Mean. by somegirl1: 4:33pm On Dec 01, 2013
Hope.At.Hand:



My vexation with Afam4eva is his insistence in mentioning ikwerre and ibo in same sentence at slightest opportunity..Pls stop it, you and Abagworo are triyng too hard to conceive an unholy matrimony between ikwerres and ibos..Its lyk saying Spanish and Portuguese are the same, no matter how close they seem, they are two different people.

Likewise Ikwerre and ibo are two enturely diffrent groups, dnt insult us by calling us a clan of ibo tribe again.

I would say he did Igbos a disservice by mentioning Ikwerres as Igbo.
You are right, we are different in looks, poise, behaviour and values.

1 Like

Re: Delta Igbo, Bendel Igbo: What Does That Even Mean. by oboy3(m): 5:33pm On Dec 01, 2013
igbos have really suffered o
everybody coming to dissociate themselves from igbos as if it were a white skinned leper
no be their faults shaa
Truth be told o in real life no igboman really cares if you are igbo or not,once they see you are igboid from rivers or delta,they just smile
its only online people make a big deal of this kinda issue
peace

1 Like

Re: Delta Igbo, Bendel Igbo: What Does That Even Mean. by tonychristopher: 6:01pm On Dec 01, 2013
Hope.At.Hand:



My vexation with Afam4eva is his insistence in mentioning ikwerre and ibo in same sentence at slightest opportunity..Pls stop it, you and Abagworo are triyng too hard to conceive an unholy matrimony between ikwerres and ibos..Its lyk saying Spanish and Portuguese are the same, no matter how close they seem, they are two different people.

Likewise Ikwerre and ibo are two enturely diffrent groups, dnt insult us by calling us a clan of ibo tribe again.


it aint ikwerre we are talking here,or have you dudes ran out of evidences. i think fake asss igbos aint a bad nomenclature for some of em. spanish and portugese are known together as iberians. So if its ikwerre issue we trash it out but for now it aint it bro. IKWERRE AND NGWA ARE RELATTED AND BOTH ARE IGBO.MY UNCLE ODINAKA IS FROM THERE SO HE SEES HIMSELF AS IGBO...BUT WE AINT TALKING IKWERRE TODAY. FOCUS ON TOPIC.

WHAT IS UKWUANI BRINGING TO THE TABLE AND WHAT HAS IKA BROUGHT TO IGBO TABLE....ABSOLUTELY NOTHING JUST DOCILITY AND SENILITY...I AM SO SORRY FOR THIS. BUT THATS A FACT
Re: Delta Igbo, Bendel Igbo: What Does That Even Mean. by HopeAtHand: 9:36pm On Dec 01, 2013
some-girl:


I would say he did Igbos a disservice by mentioning Ikwerres as Igbo.
You are right, we are different in looks, poise, behaviour and values.

Haha, see this one...ibos?? Values?? what values can the ibos boast of?? Dnt let me get into that..just stay in ur landlocked enclave and stop fraternizing.Thank you.
Re: Delta Igbo, Bendel Igbo: What Does That Even Mean. by somegirl1: 9:54pm On Dec 01, 2013
Hope.At.Hand:


Haha, see this one...ibos?? Values?? what values can the ibos boast of?? Dnt let me get into that..just stay in ur landlocked enclave and stop fraternizing.Thank you.

hun, our values differ. I haven't said ours are better than yours. The guilty are afraid.
Having lived in Port Harcourt, I find it fairly easy to differentiate an Igbo person from an Ikwerre.
Yours is an Igboid group not an Igbo sub group.
Igbos who grew up in PH know better than to fraternize with you.

3 Likes

Re: Delta Igbo, Bendel Igbo: What Does That Even Mean. by tonychristopher: 9:54am On Dec 02, 2013
some-girl:


hun, our values differ. I haven't said ours are better than yours. The guilty are afraid.
Having lived in Port Harcourt, I find it fairly easy to differentiate an Igbo person from an Ikwerre.
Yours is an Igboid group not an Igbo sub group.
Igbos who grew up in PH know better than to fraternize with you.

YES WE HAVE SEEN THEM IN DIOBU,CHOBA AND UMUMASI, WHAT DIFFERENTIATE US FROM THEM IS THEIR LAID BACK ATTITUDE TO LIFE AND LAZINESS HOPING ON OIL,WHICH THE USE IN DEVELOPING ABUJA AND OTHER PLACES. HAVING YOU BEEN TO THEIR INTERIORS BEFORE, I HAVE SEEN MUD HUTS THERE. BUT ITS NOT IKWERRE WE ARE TALKING HERE BUT IKA AND UKWUANI....CAN THEY SEE MY WELL RESEARCHED WORK.


BABE I LIKE YOUR ANALYSIS, INDEPTH

1 Like

Re: Delta Igbo, Bendel Igbo: What Does That Even Mean. by Pharoh: 12:18pm On Dec 02, 2013
tonychristopher:


I do get your drift now,I think what you are saying is that ukwuani is IGBOID but doesn't want to be called igbo but its igbo family just like tiger wants to be known as tiger not to be called a feline that is in cat family...it still doesn't make sense to me.where does your relationship lies and where do you feel at home . is it IGBOID of edoid group. atleast I know core Niger delta groups...igbo is an ethnic nationality inside it we got tribes just like twelve tribes of Israel. do you know igbo population is more than 47…million worldwide,ATLEAST we are even bigger thank some countries if we decide to go on our own. what do you do to the abohs and IKAS that say they are igbo?

Ukwuani and Ika are igboid and there is nothing anybody is going to do about that but the only thing they can tamper with is the ethnic nationality. You really have to understand the joshua project that you always want to refer to, that project is a classification of ethnic groups and taking them up to ethnic nationality. The reason why we are all called igbos is that you normally use the name of the largest ethnic group within the nationality to name the whole group.

Now assuming Ika was the largest in population, we will all be called Ikas today and same thing is applicable for the other ethnic groups within the nationality. They colonialist have already chosen that name but it is not compulsory as we can forge a new ethnic national identity for ourselves, heck we can all be refereed to as aniomas or biafrans if everyone is cool with that. There are ethnic nationalities that spreads across different countries and they go about with their ethnic group identity.

See the truth is that i cannot call an Ika man Ukwuani and it is in that same way that he also cannot call me Ika, this is the logic that is applicable to every ethnic group within the nationality. The name Igbo was chosen as our ethnic nationality because the largest ethnic group within it are the igbo people. In delta state there are three igboid groups and they are IKA, Ukwuani-Aboh and Igbos otherwise known as Enuani. So if the national identity is the problem then the logical thing to do is to fix that instead of imposing the name of one of the groups if the others are not accepting that. We can all be called anioma ethnic nationality made up of Igbos, Ikas, Ukwuani, Ikwerre and the others, so this solves our identity issue and those ikas or abohs who call themselves igbos are not exposed to this fact.

Next time ask them if they are referring to themselves as an ethnic group or ethnic nationality to see what they really mean. Each ethnic group can go their own separate ways if they so wish but it doesn't remove the fact that they belong to the same nationality. The only issue here is the name of the nationality as instead of Igbo it can be anything like anioma, biafra, Nri, Ikenge or whatever. When i tell you that i am not igbo, i am saying igbo is not my ethnic group and people don't even need to yap about the nationality as that can be changed easily to anything as we have switched to Anioma.

This is a list to all the ethnic group within Nigeria http://www.joshuaproject.net/people-profile.php
Re: Delta Igbo, Bendel Igbo: What Does That Even Mean. by Afam4eva(m): 12:25pm On Dec 02, 2013
Pharoh:

Ukwuani and Ika are igboid and there is nothing anybody is going to do about that but the only thing they can tamper with is the ethnic nationality. You really have to understand the joshua project that you always want to refer to, that project is a classification of ethnic groups and taking them up to ethnic nationality. The reason why we are all called igbos is that you normally use the name of the largest ethnic group within the nationality to name the whole group.

Now assuming Ika was the largest in population, we will all be called Ikas today and same thing is applicable for the other ethnic groups within the nationality. They colonialist have already chosen that name but it is not compulsory as we can forge a new ethnic national identity for ourselves, heck we can all be refereed to as aniomas or biafrans if everyone is cool with that. There are ethnic nationalities that spreads across different countries and they go about with their ethnic group identity.

See the truth is that i cannot call an Ika man Ukwuani and it is in that same way that he also cannot call me Ika, this is the logic that is applicable to every ethnic group within the nationality. The name Igbo was chosen as our ethnic nationality because the largest ethnic group within it are the igbo people. In delta state there are three igboid groups and they are IKA, Ukwuani-Aboh and Igbos otherwise known as Enuani. So if the national identity is the problem then the logical thing to do is to fix that instead of imposing the name of one of the groups if the others are not accepting that. We can all be called anioma ethnic nationality made up of Igbos, Ikas, Ukwuani, Ikwerre and the others, so this solves our identity issue and those ikas or abohs who call themselves igbos are not exposed to this fact.

Next time ask them if they are referring to themselves as an ethnic group or ethnic nationality to see what they really mean. Each ethnic group can go their own separate ways if they so wish but it doesn't remove the fact that they belong to the same nationality. The only issue here is the name of the nationality as instead of Igbo it can be anything like anioma, biafra, Nri, Ikenge or whatever. When i tell you that i am not igbo, i am saying igbo is not my ethnic group and people don't even need to yap about the nationality as that can be changed easily to anything as we have switched to Anioma.

This is a list to all the ethnic group within Nigeria http://www.joshuaproject.net/people-profile.php
Just to correct an impression though. The term "Igbo" is not used to refer to Ika or Ukwuani people because that's the name of the largest ethnic group as the name was an invention and just as you have Ikas and Ukwuanis, you have Ngwas, Nkanus, Abriba etc. I don't think it's fair to compare Ika or Ukwuani to Igbo as Igbo is just an association of Igboid groups. It was when the Europeans arrived that we were centralized with the Igbo term. Compare Ukwuani or Ika to Ngwa et al and not Igbo.

3 Likes

Re: Delta Igbo, Bendel Igbo: What Does That Even Mean. by Pharoh: 12:36pm On Dec 02, 2013
some-girl:


Sure dear, shoot......

Thanks and sorry for the late reply, i was down over the weekend but am cool now so let me ask those questions.

I keep seeing statements like they are lazy, what do they bring to the table and many derogatory statements from igbos to other igboid groups. So why question is, what do igbos have to loose if they allow this people to be whatever they want to be. What will igbos actually gain if they all call themselves igbos today. Do igbos feel any guilt or whatever if this people decide for themselves and face whatever fate that befalls them with their decision?. Is there any instance that these so called lazy groups come to beg igbo people for food, money or for help as i cannot fathom why all this vile statements if igbos are not their benefactors.

Now concerning the identity issue being discussed in this thread, i will like to have a discussion with you using examples around the world and backing those claims through the ethnography for language classification and the Joshua project for ethnic classification. If this is okay with you then i can post some links for you to go through it while i await your reply.
Re: Delta Igbo, Bendel Igbo: What Does That Even Mean. by Pharoh: 12:48pm On Dec 02, 2013
Afam4eva:
Just to correct an impression though. The term "Igbo" is not used to refer to Ika or Ukwuani people because that's the name of the largest ethnic group as the name was an invention and just as you have Ikas and Ukwuanis, you have Ngwas, Nkanus, Abriba etc. I don't think it's fair to compare Ika or Ukwuani to Igbo as Igbo is just an association of Igboid groups. It was when the Europeans arrived that we were centralized with the Igbo term. Compare Ukwuani or Ika to Ngwa et al and not Igbo.

This depends on what our fore fathers told the colonialist when they came in contact for the first time or when they asked their immediate neighbors. Now for the ukwuani people we rightly told them that we are ukwuanis while those on the east of uwkuani are actually osumili but because aboh was a kingdom then the colonialist called them that. This is the reason we are referred to as Ukwuani-Aboh and the Urhobos also told the colonialist that we are Ukwuanis, the historical records are there.

To the other groups, i cannot tell you what they told the colonialist as their ethnic identity as they could be referring to their village, clan or real ethnic group. This is a list of all the ethnic groups that are today grouped under this igbo collective national identity and it seems those who cannot distinctively identity themselves must belong to the igbo group.

http://www.joshuaproject.net/people-clusters.php?peo2=190

Check this links out too http://www.uiowa.edu/intlinet/unijos/nigonnet/nlp/igboid.htm

http://www.uiowa.edu/intlinet/unijos/nigonnet/nlp/nigercon.htm
Re: Delta Igbo, Bendel Igbo: What Does That Even Mean. by Pharoh: 1:12pm On Dec 02, 2013
Ngwa is a dialect of the igbo language as they belong to the igbo ethnic group and the joshua project confirms that ika, ukwuani-aboh, Ikwere etc are not dialects of igbo language but related as they are a separate language in the same way danish is not a dialect of Norwegian but closely related. Igbo is an ethnic group that is different from the ikwere, Ika, Ukwuani-aboh ethnic group as danish, Swedish, Norwegian are all ethnic groups belonging to the Scandinavian nationality.

Igbo language dialects
http://www.joshuaproject.net/languages.php?rol3=ibo

Ikwere Language dialects
http://www.joshuaproject.net/languages.php?rol3=ikw
Re: Delta Igbo, Bendel Igbo: What Does That Even Mean. by somegirl1: 1:41pm On Dec 02, 2013
Pharoh:

Thanks and sorry for the late reply, i was down over the weekend but am cool now so let me ask those questions.

I keep seeing statements like they are lazy, what do they bring to the table and many derogatory statements from igbos to other igboid groups. So why question is, what do igbos have to loose if they allow this people to be whatever they want to be. What will igbos actually gain if they all call themselves igbos today. Do igbos feel any guilt or whatever if this people decide for themselves and face whatever fate that befalls them with their decision?. Is there any instance that these so called lazy groups come to beg igbo people for food, money or for help as i cannot fathom why all this vile statements if igbos are not their benefactors.

Now concerning the identity issue being discussed in this thread, i will like to have a discussion with you using examples around the world and backing those claims through the ethnography for language classification and the Joshua project for ethnic classification. If this is okay with you then i can post some links for you to go through it while i await your reply.

Good to know you're better now smiley

The above are few of many misconceptions. If Delta Igbos have been described as lazy, I'm unaware of this.
Growing up I knew Bendel-Igbos as Igbos who happen to be located in Bendel state and Ndonis as Igbos in Rivers state.
What people don't seem to understand is that Igbos are very clannish. Even within what is known as "core" Igboland, we have reservations about people from other states, LGAs, villages even family compounds embarassed
But when push comes to shove, we are Igbo.

I read all the time that Igbos are land grabbers and expansionistic especially from Ikwerres, this is another major misconception.
The Mbaise man has never attempted to grab the land of his Owerre neighbour neither has the Nsuka man claimed Oka land as his.
Igbos acquired a huge chunk of Ikwerre land, fair and square and any lands they now occupy. Nobody's fault if one decides to sell his father's compound to a stranger who has the means to purchase it.
Like I mentioned in an earlier post, we all have some mix of something non-"core" Igbo hence the difference in dialects.
Your being Igbo or not, doesn't put or remove food from anyone's table. I'm just intrigued by viewpoints in this debate hence my participation.

I can't understand how someone would distance himself from Igbo and cite his source as Onu -Ika, (voice/ mouthpiece of Ika in Igbo language) and how a people called Umunede are Bini originally.
The difference between your dialect and other Igbo dialects is not more significant, in my opinion and I stand to be corrected, than the difference between Oratta and Ohafia or Abiriba and Nsuka.

On a side note, what I also don't understand is how and why people who claim to have migrated from elsewhere are protective of land that doesn't originally belong to them. Ikwerres claim to be Bini migrants just as you do, that would mean the lands you now occupy belong to a different group originally.

3 Likes

Re: Delta Igbo, Bendel Igbo: What Does That Even Mean. by tonychristopher: 9:02pm On Dec 02, 2013
Pharoh: Ngwa is a dialect of the igbo language as they belong to the igbo ethnic group and the joshua project confirms that ika, ukwuani-aboh, Ikwere etc are not dialects of igbo language but related as they are a separate language in the same way danish is not a dialect of Norwegian but closely related. Igbo is an ethnic group that is different from the ikwere, Ika, Ukwuani-aboh ethnic group as danish, Swedish, Norwegian are all ethnic groups belonging to the Scandinavian nationality.

Igbo language dialects
http://www.joshuaproject.net/languages.php?rol3=ibo

Ikwere Language dialects
http://www.joshuaproject.net/languages.php?rol3=ikw

clannish tendencies wont help here....igbos are not losing sleep who calls himself whatev er...the fact should be straight. ukwuani is an igbo word. umunede,igbodo,igbo akiri are all igbo word,so reason this. how can people come from benin and jettison their culture,their benin nuances,benin names and embrace igbo. does this make sense to you. i think you should tell the marines that bunkum.does it sound sensible. i wonder how people buy that shiiiit . its like saying oduduwa fell from heaven to form yoruba. such a cocck and bull story. NOW HOW COME YOU HAVE IGBO NUANCE IN UKWUANI AND IKA MORE. you have the right to be ukwuani,same as mbaise man but all under igboid umbrella. so why doubting facts not stories told by ignorant old men
Re: Delta Igbo, Bendel Igbo: What Does That Even Mean. by Pharoh: 9:42pm On Dec 02, 2013
tonychristopher:

clannish tendencies wont help here....igbos are not losing sleep who calls himself whatev er...the fact should be straight. ukwuani is an igbo word. umunede,igbodo,igbo akiri are all igbo word,so reason this. how can people come from benin and jettison their culture,their benin nuances,benin names and embrace igbo. does this make sense to you. i think you should tell the marines that bunkum.does it sound sensible. i wonder how people buy that shiiiit . its like saying oduduwa fell from heaven to form yoruba. such a cocck and bull story. NOW HOW COME YOU HAVE IGBO NUANCE IN UKWUANI AND IKA MORE. you have the right to be ukwuani,same as mbaise man but all under igboid umbrella. so why doubting facts not stories told by ignorant old men

My post above are fully explanatory and i don't see what you are still trying to argue seriously. You have to come to terms concerning the meaning of ethnic group, ethnic nationality and closely related people or language. You really have to stop this ukwuani is an igbo word or umu is an igbo word as the rightful term is igboid and not igbo. You are often confused because of the people group with the largest population and feel everybody should go with that identity. Its not going to happen so just kindly look at them as your brothers without bothering about the igbo issue and save yourself all these headache.

Look if you remove ekpeye as it was rightly mentioned in some of those links then there would not be a need to have two separate group and it will just be igboid. Ika is in delta and edo, ukwuani is in delta and rivers, Ikwerre is in rivers and same with ekpeye while ikwo, izii, mgbo and ezaa are in ebonyi state then igbos are in the rest southeast state plus maybe rivers and delta too. This are just facts that you should get used to and get over this obsession of everyone should be igbo. I don't think it is productive continuing this discussion with you as you are hell bent on your own conviction without coming to terms with presented facts.
Re: Delta Igbo, Bendel Igbo: What Does That Even Mean. by somegirl1: 10:03pm On Dec 02, 2013
^^"Umu" is Igbo, "rumu" is Igboid.

1 Like

Re: Delta Igbo, Bendel Igbo: What Does That Even Mean. by Pharoh: 10:37pm On Dec 02, 2013
some-girl:


Good to know you're better now smiley

The above are few of many misconceptions. If Delta Igbos have been described as lazy, I'm unaware of this.
Growing up I knew Bendel-Igbos as Igbos who happen to be located in Bendel state and Ndonis as Igbos in Rivers state.
What people don't seem to understand is that Igbos are very clannish. Even within what is known as "core" Igboland, we have reservations about people from other states, LGAs, villages even family compounds embarassed
But when push comes to shove, we are Igbo.

I read all the time that Igbos are land grabbers and expansionistic especially from Ikwerres, this is another major misconception.
The Mbaise man has never attempted to grab the land of his Owerre neighbour neither has the Nsuka man claimed Oka land as his.
Igbos acquired a huge chunk of Ikwerre land, fair and square and any lands they now occupy. Nobody's fault if one decides to sell his father's compound to a stranger who has the means to purchase it.
Like I mentioned in an earlier post, we all have some mix of something non-"core" Igbo hence the difference in dialects.
Your being Igbo or not, doesn't put or remove food from anyone's table. I'm just intrigued by viewpoints in this debate hence my participation.

I can't understand how someone would distance himself from Igbo and cite his source as Onu -Ika, (voice/ mouthpiece of Ika in Igbo language) and how a people called Umunede are Bini originally.
The difference between your dialect and other Igbo dialects is not more significant, in my opinion and I stand to be corrected, than the difference between Oratta and Ohafia or Abiriba and Nsuka.

On a side note, what I also don't understand is how and why people who claim to have migrated from elsewhere are protective of land that doesn't originally belong to them. Ikwerres claim to be Bini migrants just as you do, that would mean the lands you now occupy belong to a different group originally.


Thanks very much

We do get that when the argument goes sore or when we are not shifting our ground as expected with the usual argument from the language and culture angle. This clannish scourge is everywhere and even in ukwuani or Ika areas but with all round development and enlightenment, the issue will be reduced to the nearest minimum. See all the igboid group are one big family but it is made of different people and it is this simple fact that is eluding most of us here. A cluster of industry means a collection of different industries as a cluster of people is a collection of different people. Igbo is a people cluster made of other people who are not igbos and when the heat becomes high, we surely know where we can pitch our tent into.

I don't know if the land tenure system is applicable all over Nigeria where the land is not actually sold but leased for 100 years. Anyway people sell land to other people all over Nigeria but when Nigeria breaks up then the possibility of loosing those lands are high. People are not comfortable when people they sell land to start making statements like we own 70 percent of lagos or ikwerre land. This will surely cause hostility between you and the host community, people can go to any extent to sort this issue out as your ancestral land is dear to you so i don't know why igbos cannot just buy land and go about their normal lives without this boastful provocations.

You made reference to we like you are not core igbo so you mind i ask where you are actually from?. There is no difference in dialects actually because Ika, ukwuani, Ikwerre and the other igboid groups in ebonyi state are a different languages on their own. They all have their own dialects where applicable and because they are all closely related then it looks like one is a dialect of the other but it is not. Igbo is the largest group in this family hence people confuse all the others to be a dialect of it but they are not actually. Norwegian, danish, Icelandic and Swedish are all Scandinavian languages with their own dialects but they are all related so the possibility of finding the same meaning or spelling for some certain words is high. Certain words mean the same across the igboid language family and not igbo language because the others are relative language to igbo but not a dialect of it.


We are not talking about lands but identity and i don't think there was any significant records of meeting people when they first came to the land. People moved about centuries ago unlike now that the world is civilised, the people in America and Australia today took the lands from the indigenous people. The issue here is about identity and let me conclude by saying ukwuani, Ika, Igbos, Ikwerre and the others belong to one family but the bone of contention is just the name of the family.

Why the yorubas were able to accept that identity is because they did not use the name of any ethnic group within the family to collectively address them. The problem was using igbo to address all of us instead of using a neutral term to address us while everyone still kept their own indigenous names. There is a lot to loose for we as ukwauni people if we start promoting igbo in place of our ukwuani identity because the essence of being ukwuani is not the same as being ika, igbo or ikwerre.

We are only related by language and culture and that is where it actually ends because all the other factors are different if not all. We can all collective make things happen like one big family but giving up our identity means starting afresh all over again. The essence of being an ukwuani man is unique to us only and has been passed from generation to generation and that is different from the essence of being an igbo man. This is one of the reasons an igbo man sees the others as lazy and laid back but in the actual sense they are not because the essence is different. If i decide to call myself igbos today then i will have to give up the essence of being uwkuani and start living like an igbo man, i get the you don't behave like real igbo from igbos alot so you see my point.
Re: Delta Igbo, Bendel Igbo: What Does That Even Mean. by Pharoh: 10:46pm On Dec 02, 2013
some-girl:
^^"Umu" is Igbo, "rumu" is Igboid.
I don't really understand but i think it is ikwerres that use rumu but we use umu for children in ukwuani. Igboid means all the languages within it are related languages, so sometimes a word can mean the same or be spelt exactly across this family group. Sometimes they could be spelt slightly different from one language to another or entirely different across the language family.

Igboid - Ekpeye, Igbo, Ika, Izii, Ezaa, Mgbo, Ikwerre, ogba and Ukwuani-Aboh languages.

All the above are languages on their own but closely related so words can mean the same, slight different or entirely different across the family. The others are not a dialect of the igbo language as it is just one of the languages in the family so people should just try to look away from the population of igbo within the family.
Re: Delta Igbo, Bendel Igbo: What Does That Even Mean. by pazienza(m): 1:17am On Dec 03, 2013
Pharoh:
I don't really understand but i think it is ikwerres that use rumu but we use umu for children in ukwuani. Igboid means all the languages within it are related languages, so sometimes a word can mean the same or be spelt exactly across this family group. Sometimes they could be spelt slightly different from one language to another or entirely different across the language family.

Igboid - Ekpeye, Igbo, Ika, Izii, Ezaa, Mgbo, Ikwerre, ogba and Ukwuani-Aboh languages.

All the above are languages on their own but closely related so words can mean the same, slight different or entirely different across the family. The others are not a dialect of the igbo language as it is just one of the languages in the family so people should just try to look away from the population of igbo within the family.


There is no group in Igboland known as Igbo, so i don't really understand the rationale behind placing Igbo alongside Ezza,mgbo,ika, etc.

If i may ask, who are those Igbos you were refering to in your post, cause i know that i am not an Igboman, atleast not to an Ezza man, i speak a language known as Idemili, with many dialects spread across two LGAs in Anambra state, to an Ezza man, i am an Idemili man, but to a yoruba man, i and an Ezza man are both Igbos, so Igbo in this sense is but a generic name i share with an Ezza man, because Igbo is but a conglomerate of different ethnic groups with similar languages, now termed dialects of an imaginary and non- existing language, known as Igbo language.

No one speaks igbo language in Igboland, and there are no Igbomen in Igboland, what we have are Idemili men, Ngwa men, Asa men, Nsukka men, Nkanu men, Owerri men, Ohaji men, etc.

Igbo language is but a concept, nobody speaks it, we all speak, Ngwa,Ezza,Izzi,Ndoki, Idemili, Nsukka,Asa,Egbema,Egbema,Nkanu,Aro,etc. And even within these ethnicities, we equally have sub dialects, for example Ngwa has many variant dialects of it's own, spoken across 7 lga's in Abia state( compare this with Ika only spoken across two Lgas in delta, and few scattered communities in Edo state). The man in Isialangwa north( the northern most part of Ngwaland) does not speak exactly the same Ngwa with the man in Ugwunagbo( the southernmost part of Ngwaland).

I get pissed off when mischievious peeps like you try to paint south east as a homogenious entity called Igbo, with one mutually intelligible language.

4 Likes

Re: Delta Igbo, Bendel Igbo: What Does That Even Mean. by ChinenyeN(m): 2:37am On Dec 03, 2013
Afam4eva:
Just to correct an impression though. The term "Igbo" is not used to refer to Ika or Ukwuani people because that's the name of the largest ethnic group as the name was an invention and just as you have Ikas and Ukwuanis, you have Ngwas, Nkanus, Abriba etc. I don't think it's fair to compare Ika or Ukwuani to Igbo as Igbo is just an association of Igboid groups. It was when the Europeans arrived that we were centralized with the Igbo term. Compare Ukwuani or Ika to Ngwa et al and not Igbo.
pazienza:

There is no group in Igboland known as Igbo, so i don't really understand the rationale behind placing Igbo alongside Ezza,mgbo,ika, etc.

If i may ask, who are those Igbos you were refering to in your post, cause i know that i am not an Igboman, atleast not to an Ezza man, i speak a language known as Idemili, with many dialects spread across two LGAs in Anambra state, to an Ezza man, i am an i Idemili man, but to a yoruba man, i and an Ezza man are both Igbos, so Igbo in this sense is but a generic name i share with an Ezza man, because Igbo is but a conglomerate of different ethnic groups with similar languages, now termed dialects.

No one speaks igbo language in Igboland, and there are no Igbomen in Igboland, what we have are Idemili men, Ngwa men, Asa men, Nsukka men, Nkanu men, Owerri men, Ohaji men, etc.

Igbo language is but a concept, nobody speaks it, we all speak, Ngwa,Ezza,Izzi,Ndoki, Idemili, Nsukka,Asa,Egbema,Egbema,Nkanu,Aro,etc. And even within these ethnicities, we equally have sub dialects, for example Ngwa has many variant dialects of it's own, spoken across 7 lga's in Abia state( compare this with Ika only spoken across two Lgas in delta, and few scattered communities in Edo state). The man in Isialangwa north( the northern most part of Ngwaland, does not speak exactly the same Ngwa with the man in Ugwunagbo( the southernmost part of Ngwaland).

I get pissed off when mischievious peeps like you try to paint south east as a homogenious entity called Igbo, with one mutually intelligible language.

I have reason to truly believe that Pharoh is already aware of all of this, but chooses (for whatever reason) to engage in this discussion as someone who has yet to learn that basic fact.

2 Likes

Re: Delta Igbo, Bendel Igbo: What Does That Even Mean. by igboboy1(m): 8:09am On Dec 03, 2013
Hope.At.Hand:



My vexation with Afam4eva is his insistence in mentioning ikwerre and ibo in same sentence at slightest opportunity..Pls stop it, you and Abagworo are triyng too hard to conceive an unholy matrimony between ikwerres and ibos..Its lyk saying Spanish and Portuguese are the same, no matter how close they seem, they are two different people.

Likewise Ikwerre and ibo are two enturely diffrent groups, dnt insult us by calling us a clan of ibo tribe again.
as your grouse with afam4eva is putting ikwerre and igbo in the same sentence, my grouse with you is saying ikwerre is not igbo.

Not that I disagree with you. But what is igbo? you make it sound that everybody from abia, ebonyi, anambra, enugu and imo are the of same culture and dialect then Ikwerre is different...

I am from delta state and ebonyi igbo is very funny to me.

It is better if you say that ikwerre is different from Ngwa, aro, oshimili, etc than say igbo because igbos have different history, dialect, practices, and culture depending on what part you come from. So dont think Ikwerre is the only igboid group with a special uniqueness.

Ngwas are unique, Aros are unique..Oshimilli is unique
Re: Delta Igbo, Bendel Igbo: What Does That Even Mean. by chux4liv(m): 9:07am On Dec 03, 2013
[@ some-girl]

[@ some-girl] Just out of curiousity....

I'm sure Bini has their own word for "children" and way of saying "children of" or "children who". Are there any Bini towns named in that format? i.e "children of......", "children who......" as is done in Igbo areas?
[/quote]

Also, Ede is a bini name and its also an Igbo word meaning cocoyam. So the Ede referred to by our founder is not a cocoyam but a name Ede as the case in some bini name OsamenEDE , EDEgbe etc the Ede could have been abbreviated just like anyone called Chukwu is nicknamed “Chuks”. The wife of Ede is IYE and Iye in bini means is princess or queen.

[@ some-girl] Well, Eze Chima/ Chime has been cited by several sources as having been the Bini founding father of Onitsha and some parts of Delta-Igbo. If this is true, then there you have your record of an Igbo man who fled Bini as "ch" sound is not found in Bini language or west of Bini.[/quote]

Thank you, I haven’t heard the story of the so called |Eze chime, If he did exist I will do my research on him but I’m sure he is not the one that created Ika (Umunede).

Of all the children of Ede (Ilege, Edware, Oba and Ile) no one bears the “Chi” they are all bini name and I can beat my chest those four name (Ilege, Edware, Oba and Ile) forms the four clans/villages of Umunede. My dad is Oba descendant and my mum is Ilege.

The umunede (my opnion though) Umun is Igbo-word for children and Umunede is children of Ede. My puzzle (my opnion though) the name Umunede could have been attributed to them by the Ibo settlers, Just as Lagos was named by Portuguese slave trader. Nigeria got his name from British. So the Ibo settlers may want to refer to the Ede descendant as "Umun- Ede". There is a quarters we had for the Ibo settlers from west of Niger that was later name Obi, where the King later lived.

Conclusion: If you classify the Ika inhabitant as Igbo (which I’m not against since the British did the classification), that doesn’t mean their origin is Ibo. Eze chime origin is bini and we are not descendant of Eze chime but a prince-hood of bini.


INSET (Umunede Kingdom Epilogue): Available information also showed that it took some time before the kingship, as we know it today was fully established. When it was fully established, it took and Igbo title, Obi instead of Ovie or Onogie, which are the titles kings that descended directly from Benin. But, why Obi? Probably, the main reason was that in the course of centuries of living together and inter-ethnic marriages, each of the various groups living in that location started to lose its original ethnic identity, thus giving way to develop on Unumede language and culture- the language being very close to those of Ibos West of the Niger, while Unumede culture was predominantly that of Binis until the first assume that language of the dominant tribe in Umunede
Re: Delta Igbo, Bendel Igbo: What Does That Even Mean. by bigfrancis21: 2:35pm On Dec 03, 2013
^^
You just committed a gross fallacy. Don't be quick to ascribe the Ede meaning of Umunede to mean cocoyam in Igbo. The pronunciation of Ede in Umunede and Ede as in cocoyam are two different things. Ede(cocoyam) has falling tones and Ede in Umunede has mid and rising tones. The Ede in Umunede is the name of the founder, whoever it was, that founded Umunede community. Don't think that the name, Ede isn't peculiar to Edos only. Some communities in Nsukka bear Ede as community name or at times Edem.
Re: Delta Igbo, Bendel Igbo: What Does That Even Mean. by chux4liv(m): 4:34pm On Dec 03, 2013
bigfrancis21: ^^
You just committed a gross fallacy. Don't be quick to ascribe the Ede meaning of Umunede to mean cocoyam in Igbo. The pronunciation of Ede in Umunede and Ede as in cocoyam are two different things. Ede(cocoyam) has falling tones and Ede in Umunede has mid and rising tones. The Ede in Umunede is the name of the founder, whoever it was, that founded Umunede community. Don't think that the name, Ede isn't peculiar to Edos only. Some communities in Nsukka bear Ede as community name or at times Edem.

Okay, I stand to be corrected. The Ede in contest is not referring to the Ede names in Nsukka but the founder of Umunede kingdom.
Re: Delta Igbo, Bendel Igbo: What Does That Even Mean. by Pharoh: 5:21pm On Dec 03, 2013
igbo boy:
as your grouse with afam4eva is putting ikwerre and igbo in the same sentence, my grouse with you is saying ikwerre is not igbo.

Not that I disagree with you. But what is igbo? you make it sound that everybody from abia, ebonyi, anambra, enugu and imo are the of same culture and dialect then Ikwerre is different...

I am from delta state and ebonyi igbo is very funny to me.

It is better if you say that ikwerre is different from Ngwa, aro, oshimili, etc than say igbo because igbos have different history, dialect, practices, and culture depending on what part you come from. So dont think Ikwerre is the only igboid group with a special uniqueness.

Ngwas are unique, Aros are unique..Oshimilli is unique

You keep on missing the point, see igbo is a generic term used to group related people together and this is true for edo and yoruba. Now the bone of contention to make it understandable to you is that there must be clearly defined ethnic groups made up of several clans with their own language and language dialects inside this generic term. Edo for example is made up of isoko, urhobo, bini, esan, afemai etc with each of them having their own language, dialects of it and made up of several clans each. Now because all these language are edoid then you will most certainly have similarities and variations but each of them are not dialects of one another but separate languages.

I don't want to speak too much because am just repeating myself with the people am engaging not getting simple basic points. When you come to the igbo group, it is made up of clearly defined ethnic groups like Ndokwa, Ika, Ikwerre, Ikwo, Mgbo, Izii, ezaa etc. These groups are distinct ethnic groups having their own language and dialects of it. They are made of several clans with their kingship system, the same way i cannot understand ikwerre and ebonyi languages is the same way an oyo person will not understand yorubas close to benin border.

Now coming to the people am referring to as igbos in abia, anambra, imo and enugu state that you always feel to defend. They do not have a clearly defined ethnic identity( it was all villages ) and that is the reason they were given igbo. It is this same word that was used as our generic term and also to group the languages as igboid. Now this was the reason there was difficulty in developing an igbo bible before they opted for the central igbo language. You as an osimili/aniocha clearly belongs to the enuani ethnic group and speak enuani language, this identity extends into anambra with variations in mutually intelligible dialects.

What the so called igbos should do is to clearly tell us their ethnic group, ethnic language and clans in their ethnic group like we have ika, ukwuani, enuani,ikwerre etc. The solution they have created for them is to name them as igbo ethnic group and at the same time belonging to the igbo generic term. Everyone must have triple identity . . . clan - Ethnic group - Generic Nationality, so they are igbos as an ethnic group and also igbo in the generic sense. I am ukwuani as my ethnic group and igbo in the generic sense, isoko is the ethnic group and edo in the generic sense.

Shouting that i am igbo is very offensive because it is same as shouting to an isoko or urhobo person that they are edo. Everyone should promote their ethnic identity and be free to mess with the generic identity as they wish, no one is shouting to a Portuguese that he is iberian because he wants to die and live his life as Portuguese. People should stop disturbing me with the generic igbo term as i always want to live my life as an ukwuani man, same for Ika and ikwerre i believe. Igbo can be your ethnic group for all i care but you have to respect my own ethnic identity and after that we can all converge under a generic term as a family if needed.

In the yoruba generic term, they accepted that term because no one was actually yoruba within the group. It was the oyos that their language was called yoruba and they are the most populated. Scandinavian, Edo and Iberia are all generic terms but the people go about their destiny and daily life with their separate identity. Now here comes the essence of the anioma identity that people do not understand or feel threatened to and will not let us have peace of mind.

Anioma is a generic term that embodies these set of distinct ethnic groups within it, Ika, Enuani, Ulukwumi, Ukwuani-Aboh,Igala, etc. They all have their own languages, dialects of it and grouped into several clans each. They all go about their ethnic identity freely, see each other as one big family through the Anioma identity. In this way the languages are preserved, we can understand each others language through interaction and easily speak pidgin English if needed.

Something is wrong with the generic igbo identity and that is why some researchers have been screaming that a language spoken by over 30 million people is about to go extinct in 50 years and that should be food for thought. There is lack of organization and through the central igbo, everyone can just move about but this will kill the other related languages or the language itself. Anioma is the platform that we in delta north can easily preserve our essence and language. Do you know that tertiary institutions in delta do not teach our own langauge but standard igbo and this is very wrong. So for me as ukwuani my number one goal is to protect my ethnic identity and preserve my beloved ukwuani language.
Re: Delta Igbo, Bendel Igbo: What Does That Even Mean. by pazienza(m): 5:27pm On Dec 03, 2013
chux4liv: [@ some-girl]

[@ some-girl] Just out of curiousity....

I'm sure Bini has their own word for "children" and way of saying "children of" or "children who". Are there any Bini towns named in that format? i.e "children of......", "children who......" as is done in Igbo areas?


Also, Ede is a bini name and its also an Igbo word meaning cocoyam. So the Ede referred to by our founder is not a cocoyam but a name Ede as the case in some bini name OsamenEDE , EDEgbe etc the Ede could have been abbreviated just like anyone called Chukwu is nicknamed “Chuks”. The wife of Ede is IYE and Iye in bini means is princess or queen.

[@ some-girl] Well, Eze Chima/ Chime has been cited by several sources as having been the Bini founding father of Onitsha and some parts of Delta-Igbo. If this is true, then there you have your record of an Igbo man who fled Bini as "ch" sound is not found in Bini language or west of Bini.

Thank you, I haven’t heard the story of the so called |Eze chime, If he did exist I will do my research on him but I’m sure he is not the one that created Ika (Umunede).

Of all the children of Ede (Ilege, Edware, Oba and Ile) no one bears the “Chi” they are all bini name and I can beat my chest those four name (Ilege, Edware, Oba and Ile) forms the four clans/villages of Umunede. My dad is Oba descendant and my mum is Ilege.

The umunede (my opnion though) Umun is Igbo-word for children and Umunede is children of Ede. My puzzle (my opnion though) the name Umunede could have been attributed to them by the Ibo settlers, Just as Lagos was named by Portuguese slave trader. Nigeria got his name from British. So the Ibo settlers may want to refer to the Ede descendant as "Umun- Ede". There is a quarters we had for the Ibo settlers from west of Niger that was later name Obi, where the King later lived.

Conclusion: If you classify the Ika inhabitant as Igbo (which I’m not against since the British did the classification), that doesn’t mean their origin is Ibo. Eze chime origin is bini and we are not descendant of Eze chime but a prince-hood of bini.


INSET (Umunede Kingdom Epilogue): Available information also showed that it took some time before the kingship, as we know it today was fully established. When it was fully established, it took and Igbo title, Obi instead of Ovie or Onogie, which are the titles kings that descended directly from Benin. But, why Obi? Probably, the main reason was that in the course of centuries of living together and inter-ethnic marriages, each of the various groups living in that location started to lose its original ethnic identity, thus giving way to develop on Unumede language and culture- the language being very close to those of Ibos West of the Niger, while Unumede culture was predominantly that of Binis until the first assume that language of the dominant tribe in Umunede

'' ...that does not mean that their origin is Igbo''


Who exactly are the Ibos you are refering to in this context? Why is it hard for you lots to realize that there is no group in the southeast that goes by the name ''Ibo''.

umunede could have originated from Owerri, Ngwa, Asa, Idemili, etc. But can't originate from Igbo, cause there is nowhere in south east called Ibo.
Re: Delta Igbo, Bendel Igbo: What Does That Even Mean. by pazienza(m): 5:33pm On Dec 03, 2013
Pharoh:

You keep on missing the point, see igbo is a generic term used to group related people together and this is true for edo and yoruba. Now the bone of contention to make it understandable to you is that there must be clearly defined ethnic groups made up of several clans with their own language and language dialects inside this generic term. Edo for example is made up of isoko, urhobo, bini, esan, afemai etc with each of them having their own language, dialects of it and made up of several clans each. Now because all these language are edoid then you will most certainly have similarities and variations but each of them are not dialects of one another but separate languages.

I don't want to speak too much because am just repeating myself with the people am engaging not getting simple basic points. When you come to the igbo group, it is made up of clearly defined ethnic groups like Ndokwa, Ika, Ikwerre, Ikwo, Mgbo, Izii, ezaa etc. These groups are distinct ethnic groups having their own language and dialects of it. They are made of several clans with their kingship system, the same way i cannot understand ikwerre and ebonyi languages is the same way an oyo person will not understand yorubas close to benin border.

Now coming to the people am referring to as igbos in abia, anambra, imo and enugu state that you always feel to defend. They do not have a clearly defined ethnic identity( it was all villages ) and that is the reason they were given igbo. It is this same word that was used as our generic term and also to group the languages as igboid. Now this was the reason there was difficulty in developing an igbo bible before they opted for the central igbo language. You as an osimili/aniocha clearly belongs to the enuani ethnic group and speak enuani language, this identity extends into anambra with variations in mutually intelligible dialects.

What the so called igbos should do is to clearly tell us their ethnic group, ethnic language and clans in their ethnic group like we have ika, ukwuani, enuani,ikwerre etc. The solution they have created for them is to name them as igbo ethnic group and at the same time belonging to the igbo generic term. Everyone must have triple identity . . . clan - Ethnic group - Generic Nationality, so they are igbos as an ethnic group and also igbo in the generic sense. I am ukwuani as my ethnic group and igbo in the generic sense, isoko is the ethnic group and edo in the generic sense.

Shouting that i am igbo is very offensive because it is same as shouting to an isoko or urhobo person that they are edo. Everyone should promote their ethnic identity and be free to mess with the generic identity as they wish, no one is shouting to a Portuguese that he is iberian because he wants to die and live his life as Portuguese. People should stop disturbing me with the generic igbo term as i always want to live my life as an ukwuani man, same for Ika and ikwerre i believe. Igbo can be your ethnic group for all i care but you have to respect my own ethnic identity and after that we can all converge under a generic term as a family if needed.

In the yoruba generic term, they accepted that term because no one was actually yoruba within the group. It was the oyos that their language was called yoruba and they are the most populated. Scandinavian, Edo and Iberia are all generic terms but the people go about their destiny and daily life with their separate identity. Now here comes the essence of the anioma identity that people do not understand or feel threatened to and will not let us have peace of mind.

Anioma is a generic term that embodies these set of distinct ethnic groups within it, Ika, Enuani, Ulukwumi, Ukwuani-Aboh,Igala, etc. They all have their own languages, dialects of it and grouped into several clans each. They all go about their ethnic identity freely, see each other as one big family through the Anioma identity. In this way the languages are preserved, we can understand each others language through interaction and easily speak pidgin English if needed.

Something is wrong with the generic igbo identity and that is why some researchers have been screaming that a language spoken by over 30 million people is about to go extinct in 50 years and that should be food for thought. There is lack of organization and through the central igbo, everyone can just move about but this will kill the other related languages or the language itself. Anioma is the platform that we in delta north can easily preserve our essence and language. Do you know that tertiary institutions in delta do not teach our own langauge but standard igbo and this is very wrong. So for me as ukwuani my number one goal is to protect my ethnic identity and preserve my beloved ukwuani language.


This post reeks of ignorance, i will break it down and expose the ignorance inherent in it.
Re: Delta Igbo, Bendel Igbo: What Does That Even Mean. by pazienza(m): 5:34pm On Dec 03, 2013
Pharoh:

You keep on missing the point, see igbo is a generic term used to group related people together and this is true for edo and yoruba. Now the bone of contention to make it understandable to you is that there must be clearly defined ethnic groups made up of several clans with their own language and language dialects inside this generic term. Edo for example is made up of isoko, urhobo, bini, esan, afemai etc with each of them having their own language, dialects of it and made up of several clans each. Now because all these language are edoid then you will most certainly have similarities and variations but each of them are not dialects of one another but separate languages.

I don't want to speak too much because am just repeating myself with the people am engaging not getting simple basic points. When you come to the igbo group, it is made up of clearly defined ethnic groups like Ndokwa, Ika, Ikwerre, Ikwo, Mgbo, Izii, ezaa etc. These groups are distinct ethnic groups having their own language and dialects of it. They are made of several clans with their kingship system, the same way i cannot understand ikwerre and ebonyi languages is the same way an oyo person will not understand yorubas close to benin border.

Now coming to the people am referring to as igbos in abia, anambra, imo and enugu state that you always feel to defend. They do not have a clearly defined ethnic identity( it was all villages ) and that is the reason they were given igbo. It is this same word that was used as our generic term and also to group the languages as igboid. Now this was the reason there was difficulty in developing an igbo bible before they opted for the central igbo language. You as an osimili/aniocha clearly belongs to the enuani ethnic group and speak enuani language, this identity extends into anambra with variations in mutually intelligible dialects.

What the so called igbos should do is to clearly tell us their ethnic group, ethnic language and clans in their ethnic group like we have ika, ukwuani, enuani,ikwerre etc. The solution they have created for them is to name them as igbo ethnic group and at the same time belonging to the igbo generic term. Everyone must have triple identity . . . clan - Ethnic group - Generic Nationality, so they are igbos as an ethnic group and also igbo in the generic sense. I am ukwuani as my ethnic group and igbo in the generic sense, isoko is the ethnic group and edo in the generic sense.

Shouting that i am igbo is very offensive because it is same as shouting to an isoko or urhobo person that they are edo. Everyone should promote their ethnic identity and be free to mess with the generic identity as they wish, no one is shouting to a Portuguese that he is iberian because he wants to die and live his life as Portuguese. People should stop disturbing me with the generic igbo term as i always want to live my life as an ukwuani man, same for Ika and ikwerre i believe. Igbo can be your ethnic group for all i care but you have to respect my own ethnic identity and after that we can all converge under a generic term as a family if needed.

In the yoruba generic term, they accepted that term because no one was actually yoruba within the group. It was the oyos that their language was called yoruba and they are the most populated. Scandinavian, Edo and Iberia are all generic terms but the people go about their destiny and daily life with their separate identity. Now here comes the essence of the anioma identity that people do not understand or feel threatened to and will not let us have peace of mind.

Anioma is a generic term that embodies these set of distinct ethnic groups within it, Ika, Enuani, Ulukwumi, Ukwuani-Aboh,Igala, etc. They all have their own languages, dialects of it and grouped into several clans each. They all go about their ethnic identity freely, see each other as one big family through the Anioma identity. In this way the languages are preserved, we can understand each others language through interaction and easily speak pidgin English if needed.

Something is wrong with the generic igbo identity and that is why some researchers have been screaming that a language spoken by over 30 million people is about to go extinct in 50 years and that should be food for thought. There is lack of organization and through the central igbo, everyone can just move about but this will kill the other related languages or the language itself. Anioma is the platform that we in delta north can easily preserve our essence and language. Do you know that tertiary institutions in delta do not teach our own langauge but standard igbo and this is very wrong. So for me as ukwuani my number one goal is to protect my ethnic identity and preserve my beloved ukwuani language.

(1) (2) (3) ... (104) (105) (106) (107) (108) (109) (110)

Some Nigerian Ethnic Groups And Their Dressing Styles (pictures) / Learn How To Speak Hausa Here / Complaints And Notice Thread. Be Serious!

(Go Up)

Sections: politics (1) business autos (1) jobs (1) career education (1) romance computers phones travel sports fashion health
religion celebs tv-movies music-radio literature webmasters programming techmarket

Links: (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10)

Nairaland - Copyright © 2005 - 2024 Oluwaseun Osewa. All rights reserved. See How To Advertise. 235
Disclaimer: Every Nairaland member is solely responsible for anything that he/she posts or uploads on Nairaland.