DavidEsq:

U don c am now? I had to copy u

I no see anything from all you sent/quoted/replied. I still stand on my point, just that I no get that kind time to embark on this type of argument when the truth is obvious but you're trying to change the words of the bible to suit your point.

if I'm not wrong, you said Christianity started from the time of Paul and that's why I quoted you at the first place, siting where Jesus sent His disciples in pairs to go and preach and also His words to Peter as facts to let you know Christianity existed before then

BabaIbo:


I no see anything from all you sent/quoted/replied. I still stand on my point, just that I no get that kind time to embark on this type of argument when the truth is obvious but you're trying to change the words of the bible to suit your point.

if I'm not wrong, you said Christianity started from the time of Paul and that's why I quoted you at the first place, siting where Jesus sent His disciples in pairs to go and preach and also His words to Peter as facts to let you know Christianity existed before then

Pls cld u tell me exactly wr I said Christianity started with Paul? . When d president is a Nepa bill-for-certifcate holder, I'm not surprised that one of the citizens is displaying a similar behavioural pattern (ADULLor) behaviour

DavidEsq:

U also forgot to refute the oda scriptures. Eya.

Smiles, I gave you bible verses to support my argument, you said I forgot to refute other scriptures.
Read Mathew 16 vs 13-20, pay attention to 17, 18 and 19 precisely. That's enough to support my argument

He said the truth didn't come to him from any human being but it was given directly by my Father in Heaven. (hope you know what that means?)
He said you're a rock, on this rock I will build my church, and not even death will ever be able to overcome it. what does this words mean to you?
He proceeded by saying I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven...
You should be able to know which church is the first Christian church on earth or which apostle is the greatest from my illustrations. well you're free to your opinion. Have a nice day

BabaIbo:


Smiles, I gave you bible verses to support my argument, you said I forgot to refute other scriptures.
Read Mathew 16 vs 13-20, pay attention to 17, 18 and 19 precisely. That's enough to support my argument

He said the truth didn't come to him from any human being but it was given directly by my Father in Heaven. (hope you know what that means?)
He said you're a rock, on this rock I will build my church, and not even death will ever be able to overcome it. what does this words mean to you?
He proceeded by saying I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven...
You should be able to know which church is the first Christian church on earth or which apostle is the greatest from my illustrations. well you're free to your opinion. Have a nice day

Was it Paul only he was referring to when he said "I give u the keys...."? Let's discuss that when I return from work or during office hours later today? Just hold ur bible ready sha

DavidEsq:

Pls cld u tell me exactly wr I said Christianity started with Paul? . When d president is a Nepa bill-for-certifcate holder, I'm not surprised that one of the citizens is displaying a similar behavioural pattern (ADULLor) behaviour

If you think you can deny, you're wrong because the Internet never forgets.
What are insinuating with that citation you gave here?

To understand u clearer, Please tell us, Apostle Paul and the rest Apostles were catholics and prayed as Catholics pray.
Besides I'm surprised that with all ur "certainty", u didn't or shld I say cldnt cite a single scripture. This is my citation: Acts 1:21 - 26 shows that it was due to the activities and behaviour of the 1st century Christians that led to the people of Antioch calling the Apostles, Christians. Pls enlighten us on how u arrived at ur conclusion.

BTW has it gotten to the level of using insults just because you're out of idea. I know your type

DavidEsq:

Was it Paul only he was referring to when he said "I give u the keys...."? Let's discuss that when I return from work or during office hours later today? Just hold ur bible ready sha

He was referring to Peter and not Paul

BabaIbo:


If you think you can deny, you're wrong because the Internet never forgets.
What are insinuating with that citation you gave here?

To understand u clearer, Please tell us, Apostle Paul and the rest Apostles were catholics and prayed as Catholics pray.
Besides I'm surprised that with all ur "certainty", u didn't or shld I say cldnt cite a single scripture. This is my citation: Acts 1:21 - 26 shows that it was due to the activities and behaviour of the 1st century Christians that led to the people of Antioch calling the Apostles, Christians. Pls enlighten us on how u arrived at ur conclusion.

BTW has it gotten to the level of using insults just because you're out of idea. I know your type

The word I used was "pls tell ur where". Why did u remove the "were" na? As for the part u referred to as "insult", Heck no! It was neva an insult.

DavidEsq:

The word I used was "pls tell ur where". Why did u remove the "were" na? As for the part u referred to as "insult", Heck no! It was neva an insult.

Mr man go and check the response you gave then, I only copied it, I didn't edit it or delete anything. That's the exact message I saw before quoting you. even if you add where or were it won't make any sense because it will be a wrong statement, if you doubt me... this is what the statement will look like with where or were...

Please tell us where Apostle Paul and the rest Apostles were Catholics and prayed as Catholics pray... does that make any sense to you.

You meant to ask the person you're arguing with back then to tell you if Apostle Paul and other Apostles were Catholics and do they pray the way Catholics pray, so stop shifting goal post.

Listen in the early time a Catholic is equal to a Christian and a Christian is equal to a Catholic, that was how it's before some people left/break off... and I hope you know the earliest recorded person or people to leave, using that as a guide, where do you think Apostle Paul and other Apostles belong, FYI he's a saint in Catholic Church. The fact that Catholic church was founded by Jesus is enough reason to tell you other apostles including Paul were Catholics. can we just end this argument because since you don't want to accept the obvious truth with enough facts, we will only keep going on and on with this argument. EOD, Thanks

BabaIbo:


Mr man go and check the response you gave then, I only copied it, I didn't edit it or delete anything. That's the exact message I saw before quoting you. even if you add where or were it won't make any sense because it will be a wrong statement, if you doubt me... this is what the statement will look like with where or were...

Please tell us where Apostle Paul and the rest Apostles were Catholics and prayed as Catholics pray... does that make any sense to you.

You meant to ask the person you're arguing with back then to tell you if Apostle Paul and other Apostles were Catholics and do they pray the way Catholics pray, so stop shifting goal post.

Listen in the early time a Catholic is equal to a Christian and a Christian is equal to a Catholic, that was how it's before some people left/break off... and I hope you know the earliest recorded person or people to leave, using that as a guide, where do you think Apostle Paul and other Apostles belong, FYI he's a saint in Catholic Church. The fact that Catholic church was founded by Jesus is enough reason to tell you other apostles including Paul were Catholics. can we just end this argument because since you don't want to accept the obvious truth with enough facts, we will only keep going on and on with this argument. EOD, Thanks

At the bolden:
So that line doesn't make English sense to u? Buhari why? Why have u infected us with ur Nepa bill for academic certificate .
The only possible place wr the Apostles were seen to have been Catholics and to have also prayed as Catholics is the bible but since its not in the bible, that's why I asked u to tell me "where". U dey hear abi u dey understand?

DavidEsq:

At the bolden:
So that line doesn't make English sense to u? Buhari why? Why have u infected us with ur Nepa bill for academic certificate .
The only possible place wr the Apostles were seen to have been Catholics and to have also prayed as Catholics is the bible but since its not in the bible, that's why I asked u to tell me "where". U dey hear abi u dey understand?

It doesn't make sense, yes.
Moreover that's not what you typed, so that's settled.

Jesus Christ founded Catholic Church, do you expect them His disciples or apostles to create their own and leave their master's own or you expect them to leave the work he handed over to them. I believe you're wiser


No matter how you try to involve Buhari or political talks using his certificate issue as a ground into this discussion, I won't give you, this is strictly religious talk

BabaIbo:


It doesn't make sense, yes.
Moreover that's not what you typed, so that's settled.

Jesus Christ founded Catholic Church, do you expect them His disciples or apostles to create their own and leave their master's own or you expect them to leave the work he handed over to them. I believe you're wiser


No matter how you try to involve Buhari or political talks using his certificate issue as a ground into this discussion, I won't give you, this is strictly religious talk

OK I'm not using this to distract u bro. Sori bout that; but it's kinda funny u say my use of "where" doesn't make sense. U know say I be A1 English student? Don't wori, I'm just showing off for a few minutes.
On a serious note, I meant to use the word "where". Don't mind Seun's made-in-Ibadan auto correct .
Bro, can u show me where Jesus prayed to his mother or where the Apostles prayed to Mary? Just show me, ayam begging u. If u don't show me, would u let me show u wr Jesus forbade or discouraged eulogising or giving reverence to Mary?
I'm waiting.......

BabaIbo:


Mr man go and check the response you gave then, I only copied it, I didn't edit it or delete anything. That's the exact message I saw before quoting you. even if you add where or were it won't make any sense because it will be a wrong statement, if you doubt me... this is what the statement will look like with where or were...

Please tell us where Apostle Paul and the rest Apostles were Catholics and prayed as Catholics pray... does that make any sense to you.

You meant to ask the person you're arguing with back then to tell you if Apostle Paul and other Apostles were Catholics and do they pray the way Catholics pray, so stop shifting goal post.

Listen in the early time a Catholic is equal to a Christian and a Christian is equal to a Catholic, that was how it's before some people left/break off... and I hope you know the earliest recorded person or people to leave, using that as a guide, where do you think Apostle Paul and other Apostles belong, FYI he's a saint in Catholic Church. The fact that Catholic church was founded by Jesus is enough reason to tell you other apostles including Paul were Catholics. can we just end this argument because since you don't want to accept the obvious truth with enough facts, we will only keep going on and on with this argument. EOD, Thanks

U have not given me a single scripture to prove ur point. The only one u cited, that is, Peter being the rock, upon which the church was founded, I showed u other scriptures that proved ur understanding of the said scripture was wrong. U cldnt counter that fact.
As for the keys to the kingdom, hold that thought. I wld show u something. I appreciate ur interest in spiritual matters.

BabaIbo:


It doesn't make sense, yes.
Moreover that's not what you typed, so that's settled.

Jesus Christ founded Catholic Church, do you expect them His disciples or apostles to create their own and leave their master's own or you expect them to leave the work he handed over to them. I believe you're wiser


No matter how you try to involve Buhari or political talks using his certificate issue as a ground into this discussion, I won't give you, this is strictly religious talk

In one of ur earlier quotes, u placed emphasis on Matthew 16:19, where Christ talked about "giving u the keys of the Kingdom". The question is: was he referring solely to Peter when he said so? What does that statement "give u d keys of the Kingdom" symbolise?
In Luke 22:29 and 30, Jesus said "and I make a covenant with u, just as my father has made a covenant with me, for a Kingdom, so that u may eat and drink at my table in my Kingdom, and sit on thrones to judge the 12 tribes of Israel".
The use of the word "thrones" means that Jesus cldnt have been talking to Peter alone, since it would take more than one person to sit on "thrones" (more than one throne). This is further strengthened by Matthew 19:28 wr Jesus said "....truly I say to u, I the recreation, when the son of man sit down on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will sit on 12 thrones, judging the 12 tribes of Israel. See also Revelations 21:14. So Jesus wasn't talking to Peter alone, when he said "I will give u the keys of the Kingdom". What then was Jesus talking about?
Jesus was talking about authority to Shepherd the congregation and since it wasn't only Peter he was referring to, he was therefore giving the authority to Shepherd the congregation to all the Apostles. That is why in Acts 15:2, we see Paul and Barnabas being selected to go to the congregation in Jerusalem to further provide them with the necessary instructions on spiritual matters and we see these instructions at Acts 15:19-29. Also, in Galatians 2:8, Apostle Paul confirmed that Peter wasn't the only one Appointed at the same time, to Shepherd the congregation: "For the one who empowered Peter for an apostleship to those who are circumcised also empowered me for those who are of the nations (the gentiles).
Now, to further explain that statement of Jesus Christ in Matthew 16:19, Jesus further stated in Matthew 18:18 that whatever "u (the shepherds) bind on earth is bound in heaven". Was Jesus saying that heaven (God) would follow or support completely, whatever decisions the imperfect shepherds took? No! Jesus was simply saying that whatever decisions the shepherds made in respect of the congregation on spiritual matters should reflect God's views on such matters and same would therefore, get God's support. That is why in verse 15 down to 17, he talked about settling matters within the congregation, in accordance with Godly principles. That is also why, at verse 18, he then made it clear that such decision in settling such matters would have the support of Heaven. Jesus was certainly not referring to Peter alone. That is why at Hebrews 13:17, it says: "be obedient to those taking the lead among u and be submissive, for they are keeping watch over u, as those who will render account.........,".
If Peter was the first Pope as u claim Matthew 16:19 purports, then who was the second pope immediately after peter and by what means was he (the second Pope) appointed? If the first pope was appointed by a perfect man (Jesus) would the appointment of the second pope not be made by an imperfect man, since Jesus had already risen at the time of Peter's death?
If Matthew 16:18 & 19 is the basis for the infallibility of the pope, how come Apostle Paul in Galatians 11-13 found Paul to be guilty of racism and rebuked him to his face, publicly at verse 14? U said every gathering must have a leader who in turn must know wat his duty would be. If not for Paul's rebuke, would Peter have known that it was his duty not to segregate? What does dis tell us about the position of leadership as the bible put it? In Hebrews 10:24 we are told to "consider one another so as to incite to love and do fine works". Is this the pattern of the leadership of the papacy? Hell no! Rather, the decree of 1870 declared anyone who didn't accept or believe the pope to be a successor to Peter, as a Heretic. The punishment of being a heretic is burning at the stake. Chai! . Barbecuing a human being .
Hebrews 13:17 uses the word "those"; it does not use the word "the one". Meaning it has never been the duty of one to shepherd the congregation. Rather, it is a select few. Deuteronomy 1:13 - 15 confirms this fact. See also Acts 20:28, Titus 1:5.
The question of infallibility of the pope is addressed and condemned by Romans 12:3, dat also condemns the idea of man making fellow man a saint.
Lastly, I'm surprised that u avoided the clear purport of Peter's own words at 1 Peter 2:4-8, where Peter identified Jesus as the very stone upon which the congregation or church is built, which also tallies with Jesus' words at Matthew 21:42 and the same Peter's words at Acts 4:8,11.
I'm indeed surprised ; and shocked, if I may add .

DavidEsq:

OK I'm not using this to distract u bro. Sori bout that; but it's kinda funny u say my use of "where" doesn't make sense. U know say I be A1 English student? Don't wori, I'm just showing off for a few minutes.
On a serious note, I meant to use the word "where". Don't mind Seun's made-in-Ibadan auto correct .
Bro, can u show me where Jesus prayed to his mother or where the Apostles prayed to Mary? Just show me, ayam begging u. If u don't show me, would u let me show u wr Jesus forbade or discouraged eulogising or giving reverence to Mary?
I'm waiting.......

I know you want to quote Mathew 12 vs 46 - 50, but if you do, you are very wrong. I will direct you to read what happened at the cross side where Jesus handed over Mary to his disciples, John 19:26-27 When Jesus saw his mother there, and the disciple whom he loved standing nearby, he said to her, "Woman, here is your son," and to the disciple, "Here is your mother." From that time on, this disciple took her into his home. That single act means a lot if you don't know.

In the Gospel of St. Luke, we read:
“The Angel Gabriel was sent to a Virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the House of David; and the Virgin’s name was Mary” (Luke 1:27).

How did the Angel Gabriel then address her? The Gospel of St. Luke continues:
“Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women!”
“Fear not, Mary, for thou has found grace with God. Behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and shalt bring forth a Son, and thou shalt call His Name, Jesus... The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee and the power of the Most High shall overshadow thee. And therefore also the Holy One which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.”
Who can deny the dignity of the Virgin Mary — chosen to be the Mother of Jesus Christ? The Angel Gabriel, who was sent by God Himself, honored and praised her.

Furthermore, when the Virgin Mary visited her cousin, St. Elizabeth

“was filled with the Holy Ghost, and she cried out with a loud voice and said: ‘Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the Fruit of thy womb. And whence is this to me, that the Mother of my Lord should come to me?’”
Once again, honor and praise is rendered to the Virgin Mary by St. Elizabeth, “who was filled with the Holy Ghost”
Then during this same visitation, the Virgin Mary responded to her cousin’s praise of her by the prayer so full of humility and of praise to God:
“My soul doth magnify the Lord... because He hath regarded the humility of His handmaid; for behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed. For He that is mighty hath done great things to me.”

DavidEsq:

In one of ur earlier quotes, u placed emphasis on Matthew 16:19, where Christ talked about "giving u the keys of the Kingdom". The question is: was he referring solely to Peter when he said so? What does that statement "give u d keys of the Kingdom" symbolise?
In Luke 22:29 and 30, Jesus said "and I make a covenant with u, just as my father has made a covenant with me, for a Kingdom, so that u may eat and drink at my table in my Kingdom, and sit on thrones to judge the 12 tribes of Israel".
The use of the word "thrones" means that Jesus cldnt have been talking to Peter alone, since it would take more than one person to sit on "thrones" (more than one throne). This is further strengthened by Matthew 19:28 wr Jesus said "....truly I say to u, I the recreation, when the son of man sit down on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will sit on 12 thrones, judging the 12 tribes of Israel. See also Revelations 21:14. So Jesus wasn't talking to Peter alone, when he said "I will give u the keys of the Kingdom". What then was Jesus talking about?
Jesus was talking about authority to Shepherd the congregation and since it wasn't only Peter he was referring to, he was therefore giving the authority to Shepherd the congregation to all the Apostles. That is why in Acts 15:2, we see Paul and Barnabas being selected to go to the congregation in Jerusalem to further provide them with the necessary instructions on spiritual matters and we see these instructions at Acts 15:19-29. Also, in Galatians 2:8, Apostle Paul confirmed that Peter wasn't the only one Appointed at the same time, to Shepherd the congregation: "For the one who empowered Peter for an apostleship to those who are circumcised also empowered me for those who are of the nations (the gentiles).
Now, to further explain that statement of Jesus Christ in Matthew 16:19, Jesus further stated in Matthew 18:18 that whatever "u (the shepherds) bind on earth is bound in heaven". Was Jesus saying that heaven (God) would follow or support completely, whatever decisions the imperfect shepherds took? No! Jesus was simply saying that whatever decisions the shepherds made in respect of the congregation on spiritual matters should reflect God's views on such matters and same would therefore, get God's support. That is why in verse 15 down to 17, he talked about settling matters within the congregation, in accordance with Godly principles. That is also why, at verse 18, he then made it clear that such decision in settling such matters would have the support of Heaven. Jesus was certainly not referring to Peter alone. That is why at Hebrews 13:17, it says: "be obedient to those taking the lead among u and be submissive, for they are keeping watch over u, as those who will render account.........,".
If Peter was the first Pope as u claim Matthew 16:19 purports, then who was the second pope immediately after peter and by what means was he (the second Pope) appointed? If the first pope was appointed by a perfect man (Jesus) would the appointment of the second pope not be made by an imperfect man, since Jesus had already risen at the time of Peter's death?
If Matthew 16:18 & 19 is the basis for the infallibility of the pope, how come Apostle Paul in Galatians 11-13 found Paul to be guilty of racism and rebuked him to his face, publicly at verse 14? U said every gathering must have a leader who in turn must know wat his duty would be. If not for Paul's rebuke, would Peter have known that it was his duty not to segregate? What does dis tell us about the position of leadership as the bible put it? In Hebrews 10:24 we are told to "consider one another so as to incite to love and do fine works". Is this the pattern of the leadership of the papacy? Hell no! Rather, the decree of 1870 declared anyone who didn't accept or believe the pope to be a successor to Peter, as a Heretic. The punishment of being a heretic is burning at the stake. Chai! . Barbecuing a human being .
Hebrews 13:17 uses the word "those"; it does not use the word "the one". Meaning it has never been the duty of one to shepherd the congregation. Rather, it is a select few. Deuteronomy 1:13 - 15 confirms this fact. See also Acts 20:28, Titus 1:5.
The question of infallibility of the pope is addressed and condemned by Romans 12:3, dat also condemns the idea of man making fellow man a saint.
Lastly, I'm surprised that u avoided the clear purport of Peter's own words at 1 Peter 2:4-8, where Peter identified Jesus as the very stone upon which the congregation or church is built, which also tallies with Jesus' words at Matthew 21:42 and the same Peter's words at Acts 4:8,11.
I'm indeed surprised ; and shocked, if I may add .

I think you're ignorant, what will you say about the man that was killed in the old testament for carrying the ark of covenant with his bare hand. or about a whole town that suffered destruction or when the world was destroyed with water etc, there are things your human mind can't fathom or understand, there are some actions that look bizarre to you but you can't understand cos of your human nature, there are ways that look good in the sight of man but the end is destruction. You need holy spirit to understand somethings.

With regard to Matthew 16:18 , Jesus Christ was specifically referring to Peter in this passage. He was often the spokesman for the others and had a leading role in the early church. We must also note, however, that all the other disciples were in Jesus’ presence at that time. No matter how you try to change the bible words or scripture, it won't work. Thanks for the time and argument, I won't reply this argument any longer

BabaIbo:


I think you're ignorant, what will you say about the man that was killed in the old testament for carrying the ark of covenant with his bare hand. or about a whole town that suffered destruction or when the world was destroyed with water etc, there are things your human mind can't fathom or understand, there are some actions that look bizarre to you but you can't understand cos of your human nature, there are ways that look good in the sight of man but the end is destruction. You need holy spirit to understand somethings.

With regard to Matthew 16:18 , Jesus Christ was specifically referring to Peter in this passage. He was often the spokesman for the others and had a leading role in the early church. We must also note, however, that all the other disciples were in Jesus’ presence at that time. No matter how you try to change the bible words or scripture, it won't work. Thanks for the time and argument, I won't reply this argument any longer

In respect of the events that occurred in the bolden above, the bible records clearly why those events happened and it's only those inclined to understanding such things that would understand such. Not those inclined to stories.

BabaIbo:


I think you're ignorant, what will you say about the man that was killed in the old testament for carrying the ark of covenant with his bare hand. or about a whole town that suffered destruction or when the world was destroyed with water etc, there are things your human mind can't fathom or understand, there are some actions that look bizarre to you but you can't understand cos of your human nature, there are ways that look good in the sight of man but the end is destruction. You need holy spirit to understand somethings.

With regard to Matthew 16:18 , Jesus Christ was specifically referring to Peter in this passage. He was often the spokesman for the others and had a leading role in the early church. We must also note, however, that all the other disciples were in Jesus’ presence at that time. No matter how you try to change the bible words or scripture, it won't work. Thanks for the time and argument, I won't reply this argument any longer

U didn't tell me how I changed the words o the bible. In fact, u didn't dispute the scriptures I cited. All u are putting up is mere emotional upheavals, which have no place in scriptural truths.

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