Oyedepo: Love Always Delivers Success & Prosperity? - Religion (2) - Nairaland
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| Re: Oyedepo: Love Always Delivers Success & Prosperity? by cicero(m): 9:56pm On Jun 25, 2010 |
@petres_007. You and your pastors are wrong that is why you and them won't go far in the ministry. I don't understand how what you quoted the Bishop as saying translates to urging people to use love for they selfish end but he is 100% correct. First of I am not sure you understood what he meant so here goes, he was talking about your love walk, that is your lifestyle of love. He was saying your love life-style will deliver all the blessings he mentioned and much more, summarizing by saying love never fails This love walk will deliver your blessings faster and surely than your fasting can. This love walk is more easily manifested in one's passion to set the captives free and help the helpless. In Isaiah 58 read what God says about the fasting He demands, all about what you do or give for others which is what love really is. Compare the highlighted verses to the blessings Bishop spoke of: Isa 58:1 Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and shew my people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins. Isa 58:2 Yet they seek me daily, and delight to know my ways, as a nation that did righteousness, and forsook not the ordinance of their God: they ask of me the ordinances of justice; they take delight in approaching to God. Isa 58:3 Wherefore have we fasted, say they, and thou seest not? wherefore have we afflicted our soul, and thou takest no knowledge? Behold, in the day of your fast ye find pleasure, and exact all your labours. Isa 58:4 Behold, ye fast for strife and debate, and to smite with the fist of wickedness: ye shall not fast as ye do this day, to make your voice to be heard on high. Isa 58:5 Is it such a fast that I have chosen? a day for a man to afflict his soul? is it to bow down his head as a bulrush, and to spread sackcloth and ashes under him? wilt thou call this a fast, and an acceptable day to the LORD? Isa 58:6 Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke? Isa 58:7 Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the unclothed, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh? Isa 58:8 Then shall thy light break forth as the morning, and thine health shall spring forth speedily: and thy righteousness shall go before thee; the glory of the LORD shall be thy rereward. Isa 58:9 Then shalt thou call, and the LORD shall answer; thou shalt cry, and he shall say, Here I am. If thou take away from the midst of thee the yoke, the putting forth of the finger, and speaking vanity; Isa 58:10 And if thou draw out thy soul to the hungry, and satisfy the afflicted soul; then shall thy light rise in obscurity, and thy darkness be as the noonday: Isa 58:11 And the LORD shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought, and make fat thy bones: and thou shalt be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters fail not. Isa 58:12 And they that shall be of thee shall build the old waste places: thou shalt raise up the foundations of many generations; and thou shalt be called, The repairer of the breach, The restorer of paths to dwell in. Isa 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words: Isa 58:14 Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it. A life-style of love opens the heavens- selfless, God-centered love. When you walk in that kind of love, you are walking in God because God is love. Jesus hints that judgment will be based on this kind of love in Matthew25 :31 to the end. In Hebrews 6:10 the writer states categorically that our labour of love will not be forgotten by God or else He will prove himself unrighteous. In 1 Corinthians 13 Paul was not comparing love to the spiritual gifts mentioned because there is no basis for such comparison. He was rather telling the Corinthians that the spiritual gifts they are familiar with and rate highly cannot be compared to love, which is the highest kind of life any man could live. In John 3:16 we see that God gave Christ out of His nature - Love, in Galatians 3:13,14 we see what that love-gift brought us, redemption from the curse of the law and the curse of the law(Deut. 28:15-68 ) falls into 3 categories - poverty, sickness and disease and spiritual death. Can you see it now? There are levels in this thing and obviously you and your pastor are at the milk level. However, considering what you wrote and I quote: No, the gospel is not about worldly success. No, Christianity has nothing to do with earthly riches and prosperity. The bible tells us not worry about even our earthly, genuine needs (Luke 12: 27-31). These men teach us to earnestly desire worldly success, riches and comfort – they call it being “blessed”. The bible tells us to be content with such as we have (1 Timothy 6:5-11), these men tell us to lust for more and go out of their way to twist every verse in the bible to teach this poison - even a verse on love. I have a little idea of where you are coming from, I only wrote to help someone who may be inclined to falling for your ignorance. I don't want to reply on the part about God's work and business because if you don't understand such a baby thing as love, how can you possibly understand truths reserved for sons who by the reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil? |
| Re: Oyedepo: Love Always Delivers Success & Prosperity? by Image123(m): 11:04pm On Jun 25, 2010 |
Cicero O you don't really understand these people! A majority of them seperate themselves and have not the Spirit. They are in plain churchless and not under any sort of 'authority'. Their view of a man of God is a beggarly, sickly man who can barely pay his transport. They think heaven and lazarus are synonyms. |
| Re: Oyedepo: Love Always Delivers Success & Prosperity? by nuclearboy(m): 7:12am On Jun 26, 2010 |
^^^ Truth is the Holy Spirit. The Apostles suffered. Both they and Christ Himself looked towards Heaven for their "reward". You on the other hand say Christ Himself knew naught when He said "for My sake, they shall persecute you". You insist on an earthly reward.  Do you know what it means to persecute? Peter was crucified upside down, Stephen was stoned to death, Paul was beheaded. But you say - "you will OWN the world". Can the disciple be greater than the master? Basically then, you believe the Lazarus "rich man" and heaven are synonymous. The Bible has already answered you |
| Re: Oyedepo: Love Always Delivers Success & Prosperity? by Image123(m): 2:42pm On Jun 26, 2010 |
nuclearboy Stop accusing me of saying things I didn't say. Must you always be dishonest? You have computer and internet IN NIGERIA!, but pastors should be 'suffering'. How myopic does it get with you? What do you understand by persecution? I've said it before (strong likelihood you wouldn't remember, you'll only recall me saying things I've never said) that there are false teachers and false brethren all over, and that we're to stay away from such. But they are no means to 'throw the kid out with the dirty water'. |
| Re: Oyedepo: Love Always Delivers Success & Prosperity? by cicero(m): 2:47pm On Jun 26, 2010 |
@Nuclearboy Have you not read mark 10:30,31? The rewards of Christ starts here on earth that means money well well, houses, lands and yes with persecution. What is persecution? The insults and unfounded accusations heaped on people like Bishop Oyedepo and Pastor Adeboye are persecutions. Now a christian does not have control over the kind of persecution he faces, but he can chose which one to accept e.g john baptist and stephen did not incur the wrath of the jews more than paul but they were killed early in their ministeries. While stephen was excited at seeing heavenly vision(acts7), paul chose to hang around and teach(phil.1:23)the same paul in 2cor.11:22-33 lists all the persecutions facing him but he wouldn't accept death at the time because in acts 23 he sought help from the authorities to protect his life and used military escort for awhile. He would have avoided the floggings if he could as in acts 22. You can insult Pastor Adeboye all you can(persecution), but try touching his life whether spiritually or physically(persecution) and see if he wants to die before fulfilling his call. So prosperity is for us here, that's how the gospel spreads, that's how God satisfys our mouth with good things so that our youth is renewed, that's how we help the poor and not be a burden, that's one of the reasons Christ died 2cor.8:9, the jews who received the oracle of God rightly associated prosperity here on earth with salvation(matt.19:24,25 and with prosperity you won't be able to run away from persecution. Bad poor people will envy you, people who are still poor after much hardwork will hate you for having it, the worldly rich will hate you for having the money they have without having the storms they have, if you are pastor other pastors who have done dry, lean, wet and all manner of fasting and still struggling will hate you. And a life of love can break the curse of poverty. Diligence, discipline and planning in ministry as if it is a business will also cause a pastor to break forth. |
| Re: Oyedepo: Love Always Delivers Success & Prosperity? by cicero(m): 2:52pm On Jun 26, 2010 |
Image123: That's plain ignorance and it is really sad. |
| Re: Oyedepo: Love Always Delivers Success & Prosperity? by nuclearboy(m): 3:36pm On Jun 26, 2010 |
@Image: e36991 has opened your vocabulary abi and you too are now writing - "don't throw the baby out with the bath water"?  At least NL is helping your grammar even if you're closed to the truth. @cicero: The person you name yourself after was considered very wise. One sign of wisdom is to listen/read more than you talk/write. Sadly, you fail in that. I do not believe pastors should be beggarly. But I know they are not "gods" and I know the primary task of the Gospel is outlined in Mark 16. Where pastoral gifts, tithes, first fruit, prophets offering, etc are in that, I would like to be shown. BTW, you asked I read Mark 10: 30 & 31. Did YOU YOURSELF read verse 29? Before you can get the blessings, you have something to do too - leave all these things you wish to claim as rewards, NOT fight for them like your mentors do. Finally, I like Pastor Adeboye very much. Very very very much and I dare anyone to show me one place where I criticised him directly. That said, if he does the wrong thing, I will say so! He is NOT my Lord. You of course, have the right to keep worshipping men but quick question - what if you find tomorrow that they misbehave? Ever heard of Jimmy Swarggart? or Robert Liardon? Or what if your own anointing outshines them in the next 12 months - will you start worshipping yourself or insist that you cannot be wrong? Think of all that. At least you're not "image123" who's capability to think has been taken up by fear of the OT devourer. |
| Re: Oyedepo: Love Always Delivers Success & Prosperity? by aletheia(m): 5:10pm On Jun 26, 2010 |
cicero: So for you, "The rewards of Christ. . .means money well well, houses, lands. . ." Really. How different are you from: . . .people who are depraved in mind and deprived of the truth, imagining that godliness is a means of gain. Now there is great gain in godliness with contentment, for we brought nothing into the world, and we cannot take anything out of the world. But if we have food and clothing, with these we will be content. (9) But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation, into a snare, into many senseless and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs. But as for you, O man of God, flee these things. Pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, steadfastness, gentleness. 1 Timothy 6:5-11 Money, land, houses would qualify as the things of this world. 1 John 2:15-17 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. (16) For all that is in the world--the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride in possessions--is not from the Father but is from the world. (17) And the world is passing away along with its desires, but whoever does the will of God abides forever. cicero: "Now a christian does not have control over the kind of persecution he faces, but he can chose which one to accept" What do you mean by that inane statement? How about James the brother of John (one of the Apostles) killed by Herod? Paul used military escort? I am flabbergasted, but it goes to show how true this scriptures are with regard to you: 2 Corinthians 3:14-16 But their minds were hardened. For to this day, when they read the old covenant, that same veil remains unlifted, because only through Christ is it taken away. (15) Yes, to this day whenever Moses is read a veil lies over their hearts. (16) But when one turns to the Lord, the veil is removed.A veil covers your heart: the veil of the love of lucre, which is why you make such statements. Paul was a prisoner! Why did he accept to be one then, since by your theory he should have rejected that? Acts 23:25-31 And he wrote a letter to this effect: (26) "Claudius Lysias, to his Excellency the governor Felix, greetings. (27) This man was seized by the Jews and was about to be killed by them when I came upon them with the soldiers and rescued him, having learned that he was a Roman citizen. (28) And desiring to know the charge for which they were accusing him, I brought him down to their council. (29) I found that he was being accused about questions of their law, but charged with nothing deserving death or imprisonment. (30) And when it was disclosed to me that there would be a plot against the man, I sent him to you at once, ordering his accusers also to state before you what they have against him." (31) So the soldiers, according to their instructions, took Paul and brought him by night to Antipatris. |
| Re: Oyedepo: Love Always Delivers Success & Prosperity? by nuclearboy(m): 5:26pm On Jun 26, 2010 |
Aletheia: You're passing too much information at ONE time. Poor guy has probably not seen/read that much scripture this entire year. you just might be guilty of sensory overload.  |
| Re: Oyedepo: Love Always Delivers Success & Prosperity? by cicero(m): 10:04pm On Jun 26, 2010 |
Quote from: cicero on Today at 02:47:08 PMPlease read mark 10:30,31. What happened there was, Jesus and his disciples were discussing about riches and rich men. In answer to Peters comment that they had left all to follow Christ, Jesus answered him as in mark 10:30,31. let me paste it for your perusal from verse 29: Mar 10:29 And Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel's, Mar 10:30 But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life. By the way I am not sure you can have houses and lands without money (hundredfold houses and lands, notice the 's' for plural). Quote Please also reread (I assume you read it before posting) 1 Tim. 6: 5-11, it does not say Christians are not to be rich in this world, but it refers to people I would call wolves in sheep's clothing who see the gospel as a means of money making, more specifically he is referring to pastors and should I say church leaders. Timothy is not the name of a city, it is the name of certain minister Christ who was mentored by Paul. 1 John 2:15-17 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. (16) For all that is in the world--the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride in possessions--is not from the Father but is from the world. (17) And the world is passing away along with its desires, but whoever does the will of God abides forever. The world referred to here is not the physical world, but the world system, dominated by the devil and it is the system that makes the ungodly rich. 2cor 4:4 talks about the god of this world. To make it simpler for you, loving the world would mean loving it indecency, gay lifestyle, stealing, over-invoicing in offices, going against the laws of the land, the end justifies the means especially when it comes to making money, pre marital sex etc I could write all day on this verse. Why did you quote it though? Now a christian does not have control over the kind of persecution he faces, but he can chose which one to accept e.g john baptist and stephen did not incur the wrath of the jews more than paul but they were killed early in their ministeries. While stephen was excited at seeing heavenly vision(acts7), paul chose to hang around and teach(phil.1:23)the same paul in 2cor.11:22-33 lists all the persecutions facing him but he wouldn't accept death at the time because in acts 23 he sought help from the authorities to protect his life and used military escort for awhile. He would have avoided the floggings if he could as in acts 22. I meant persecution will come, it is normal but depending on your level of faith, there are things you don't have to accept. For instance, you can persecute me for my christian faith, you can call me names all you like, you can discriminate against me and malign me, slander me all because of my faith, you can ask me not to preach to you, but it stops there. If you cross over to attacking, my family or my possessions whether because I am a christian or for any reason, then I refuse to accept it. In fact, you cant try it. The point I was making was that Paul resisted death for a time, Stephen did not, he accepted. I don't compare myself to James the brother of John, I don't know all that he believed in, just like I cant compare myself to you, though we are Christians, I don't know all you believe in, although I know you believe in poverty, I believe in prosperity. You may believe you will die next year because of your christian faith, I believe I will see my great grand children before I die. By the way when I said Paul used military escort I did not consider that your like does not believe in mixing scripture with a sense of humor. I was referring to Acts 23: 23-35 Please read it and smile. |
| Re: Oyedepo: Love Always Delivers Success & Prosperity? by cicero(m): 10:22pm On Jun 26, 2010 |
nuclearboy: The bolded is another explosive topic that I wont want to get into now. But I must mention that I follow men of God, I do not worship them, but I esteem them very highly 1 Th. 5:13 And I am wiser than you think you know, because I realize they are human beings and can make mistakes, so I overlook their mistakes, and follow the virtues God has deposited in them. If tomorrow my own anointing outshines them, I'll still honor and love them with all my heart. I'm glad you like Daddy G.O., I LOVE HIM. Did you know he is one of the spiritual Fathers of Bishop Oyedepo? Thought I should let you know. Lastly I don't know what the 'devourer' thing refers to, but I am addicted to tithing. Thought I should mention that too. God bless |
| Re: Oyedepo: Love Always Delivers Success & Prosperity? by Image123(m): 10:49am On Jun 27, 2010 |
Ge gen! I just found one of my long lost brother. Welcome, o welcome cicero the wise. Nuclearboy and his cohorts delight in spotting holes with XL focus concentration. Pls be aware |
| Re: Oyedepo: Love Always Delivers Success & Prosperity? by nuclearboy(m): 1:27pm On Jun 27, 2010 |
You people always set traps for yourself then get angry when they are sprung on you. cicero: And who said they are not human? Is it me that refuses to follow follow or you who say it and then follow follow?  The trap I mentioned! - do you know Lawrence Anini had a father too? Was the father also engaged in the same "work"? So when next you think you're being brilliant, consider there are levelers. remember it is not compulsory the son follows his father's steps. In effect, I am not saying Oyedepo is a thief but that your argument holds "ZERO" water! If you like, give 100% and call it tithe. I have never argued against giving, only the teaching that a specific % MUST go to the local church |
| Re: Oyedepo: Love Always Delivers Success & Prosperity? by Nobody: 3:06pm On Jun 27, 2010 |
Christians- una don tire me! |
| Re: Oyedepo: Love Always Delivers Success & Prosperity? by Image123(m): 12:03am On Jun 28, 2010 |
Babaearly No mind nuclearboy and hin cohorts this early morning. Thier phobia tire even me. |
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