LifestyleTonite:
Jesus was speaking to His disciples telling them that they will be his witness to the ends of the earth. His disciples aren't only the 12. The 12 were special whom he named apostles. He had other disciples too.

The 12 were his apostles, but he had other disciples

Luke 6:13
And when day came, He called His disciples to Him and chose twelve of them, whom He also named as apostles:

His followers today are also his disciples. Christians are his disciples. You claim that the disciples never set foot in. Nigeria. You made this claim by quoting acts 1:8 but forgot that it wasn't only the 12 the holy spirit is promised. It is promised to every beLiever. Jesus promised to send the holy spirit to fulfill God's word which says He will pour out His spirit on all flesh. It's even in acts 1:17. It doesn't say it will only be on the 12 alone. So, this means others could have set foot in Africa. Some people filled with the holy spirit brought Christianity to Africa and Nigeria, until you JW came with your perversion.


Acts 1:8 King James Version (KJV)
But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Hmmmmmmmmm hellooooo aren't you seeing again due to the demon disturbing you? I wrote 500, perhaps you want to say that the Apostles were lying that the number is about 500. 1Corinthians 15:6

TATIME:
You're right jare no problem, just that you can't figure out the religious GROUP that a honest hearted person interested in Christ will ASSOCIATE with!

How many times do we have to tell you being affliated with a religious group is not a requirement for salvation?

TATIME:
Yes you're quoting the Bible but let's go deeper into the scriptures to find the meaning. The word "SEAL" shouldn't be a problem, it simply means the NUMBER will stop COUNTING as in that figure will not continue because they must have been 144,000 during the great tribulation. The number started counting from the day of Pentecost until our time but it's during the great tribulation (which will soon begin) the NUMBER as in FIGURE will have COMPLETED. As for the twelve tribes mentioned in Revelations 7:5-8,that is "NOT THE ORIGINAL TWELVE TRIBES OF ISRAEL" you can compare with the ORIGINAL names of those twelve. Exodus 1:2-5 It's because that tribal arrangement is also not to be taken LITERALLY!

You are twisting the meaning of the word seal just as you twisted the meaning of virgin. The verse doesn't say "until we have completed the sealing of the 144,000 which we started long ago". It says "till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads."

In your warped reasoning, when God was telling Daniel to seal the book, He simply meant that Daniel had been sealing different books and now was to conclude with the final book.

Daniel 12:4
But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.


Now, you have jumped to state that the tribes of Israel mentioned aren't the original names of the tribe of Israel. Na wah for you o. I've cross checked exodus and revelations and the names of the tribes of Israel are the same. The tribes even show that your JW elders who have hope of being in the 144,000 are brainwashed because they aren't even Israelites.

TATIME:
Jesus never said "all of them will be on earth" but "they will be" which is just as He initially told 500 of His disciples that "they will be His witnesses to the most distant part of the earth" Act 1:8 Please my friend it's clear that none of those whom Jesus spoke to stepped his foot in Nigeria!

How are you sure none of them set foot in Nigeria?

Is it compulsory they must set foot in all lands? Preaching to one man who will proceed to take the gospel to his own country can make the difference.Or was it the disciples/apostles themselves who took the gospel to America?

LifestyleTonite:
Jesus was speaking to His disciples telling them that they will be his witness to the ends of the earth. His disciples aren't only the 12. The 12 were special whom he named apostles. He had other disciples too.

The 12 were his apostles, but he had other disciples

Luke 6:13
And when day came, He called His disciples to Him and chose twelve of them, whom He also named as apostles:

His followers today are also his disciples. Christians are his disciples. You claim that the disciples never set foot in. Nigeria. You made this claim by quoting acts 1:8 but forgot that it wasn't only the 12 the holy spirit is promised. It is promised to every beLiever. Jesus promised to send the holy spirit to fulfill God's word which says He will pour out His spirit on all flesh. It's even in acts 1:17. It doesn't say it will only be on the 12 alone. So, this means others could have set foot in Africa. Some people filled with the holy spirit brought Christianity to Africa and Nigeria, until you JW came with your perversion.


Acts 1:8 King James Version (KJV)
But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Arguing when you're supposed to listen and learn will just continue to give you unnecessary bewilderment my friend. Jesus spoke to 500 persons telling them they'll be His witnesses to the most distant part of the earth but none of those 500 stepped a foot in Nigeria. So if you're now quoting a similar text where He said the 144,000 will be alive during the great tribulation but saying all of them must be alive then you're confusing yourself. If none of those 500 came to Nigeria then you're not a Christian because according to your analogy they must all be PRESENT in all the countries of the earth before we can say Christianity has come to Nigeria! But if you agree that He was talking about those who have also become Christians then you can't expect all the 144,000 to still be alive during the grear tribulation period.

TATIME:
#LifestyleTonite; I really appreciate your inquisitive attitude my friend and i pray that you continue like this because it is not easy to find the truth. Many of us not born as JWs fought a lot of battles with families and friends who keep insisting that we must remain with them in their ignorance of Bible understanding! So please keep it up but don't forget that you will start sinning against the holy spirit when your heart is telling you "could this people be the true Christians?" And you keep arguing just because of the crowd criticising them. Exodus 23:2 God bless you!

The JW which surfaced in the 18th century are actually the true chrustians?

You make me laugh. That means Peter and Paul carried bags and shared watchtower magazines in their time. Who were their GB?

TATIME:
Arguing when you're supposed to listen and learn will just continue to give you unnecessary bewilderment my friend. Jesus spoke to 500 persons telling them they'll be His witnesses to the most distant part of the earth but none of those 500 stepped a foot in Nigeria. So if you're now quoting a similar text where He said the 144,000 will be alive during the great tribulation but saying all of them must be alive then you're confusing yourself. If none of those 500 came to Nigeria then you're not a Christian because according to your analogy they must all be PRESENT in all the countries of the earth before we can say Christianity has come to Nigeria! But if you agree that He was talking about those who have also become Christians then you can't expect all the 144,000 to still be alive during the grear tribulation period.

What a wack reasoning. This show that if I say one of them came to Nigeria, you will still say they didn't come to Oshogbo or Igbo land . Can they reach everywhere? No, that's why Jesus said they should make disciples of all men, men who will continue from where they stopped.

This doesn't cancel out the faCt that the 144,000 people have a portion of the. already existed. The Bible doesn't say it will seal the remaining of them. It says it will seal the 144,000. I just showed you what seal means, which is co teary to what you are trying to twist it to mean.

LifestyleTonite:
You are twisting the meaning of the word seal just as you twisted the meaning of virgin. The verse doesn't say "until we have completed the sealing of the 144,000 which we started long ago". It says "till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads."

In your warped reasoning, when God was telling Daniel to seal the book, He simply meant that Daniel had been sealing different books and now was to conclude with the final book.

Daniel 12:4
But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.


Now, you have jumped to state that the tribes of Israel mentioned aren't the original names of the tribe of Israel. Na wah for you o. I've cross checked exodus and revelations and the names of the tribes of Israel are the same. The tribes even show that your JW elders who have hope of being in the 144,000 are brainwashed because they aren't even Israelites.

Are you willing to accept the truth or keep arguing in support of the opposing crowd? Well go back and check the names again because "Manasseh" was listed in the names of the twelve tribes of Israel at Revelations 7 5-8 whereas Manasseh was one of the two sons of Joseph (Genesis 48:1) It was Dan's name that supposed to make the list complete as the original names of the twelve trives of Israel!

LifestyleTonite:
The JW which surfaced in the 18th century are actually the true chrustians?

You make me laugh. That means Peter and Paul carried bags and shared watchtower magazines in their time. Who were their GB?

When Jesus appeared in the year 29ce the Pharisees,Sadducees,Scribes and others argued that even though all signs proved that this young Nazarene has done so much,the fact that He appeared later than the time they expected is enough to disapprove Jesus as the promised Messiah. So let's leave the case of JWs or Watchtower for now because we're trying to get somethings straight first perhaps we'll come to that later. 2Timothy 3:16

TATIME:
Are you willing to accept the truth or keep arguing in support of a the opposing crowd? Well go back and check the names again because "Manasseh" was listed in the names of the twelve tribes of Israel at Revelations 7 5-8 whereas Manasseh was one of the two sons of Joseph (Genesis 48:1) It was Dan's name that supposed to make the list complete as the original names of the twelve trives of Israel!

Numbers 13:8 Mentions Ephraim as a tribe but is not mentioned in revelations.

I do t know why Dan was left out.

TATIME:
When Jesus appeared in the year 29ce the Pharisees,Sadducees,Scribes and others argued that even though all signs proved that this young Nazarene has done so much,the fact that He appeared later than the time they expected is enough to disapprove Jesus as the promised Messiah. So let's leave the case of JWs or Watchtower for now because we're trying to get somethings straight first perhaps we'll come to that later. 2Timothy 3:16

Na wah for you o. If Jesus wanted an organization, he would have established it himself and his disciples would have been called by the name . But no, his disciples are called Christians under a church. You JW call yourself an organization. Moreover, Jesus never said we should expect an organization exFept the Antichrist . Your actions have proven to be Antichrist in nature.

search4truth:

How many times do we have to tell you being affliated with a religious group is not a requirement for salvation?

YES OH you're saying it but the scripture always says otherwise because Paul often include in his letter the word "WE" meaning a group must be IDENTIFIED in order to associate with to gain salvation! Hebrew 10:24,25 Moreover Jesus has a "congregation" of true worship and He(Jesus) warned of blind guides meaning there are groups who won't see salvation because they're associating with BLIND GUIDES. Matthew 15:14 And to expose your hypocrisy, what are you doing now if you believe anyone from anywhere could be saved so far he/she believes? If i claim as a JW that i believe in Jesus,would you say i am on the road to salvation? Or are you saying ONLY JW organization is false in all the religious groups claiming Christians?

LifestyleTonite:


Numbers 13:8 Mentions Ephraim as a tribe but is not mentioned in revelations.

I do t know why Dan was left out.

The reason is simple. The list is not to be taken literally!

LifestyleTonite:
Na wah for you o. If Jesus wanted an organization, he would have established it himself and his disciples would have been called by the name . But no, his disciples are called Christians under a church. You JW call yourself an organization. Moreover, Jesus never said we should expect an organization exFept the Antichrist . Your actions have proven to be Antichrist in nature.

Good! If you say the action of a religious group proves that the group is the Antichrist, please can you explain the meaning of Antichrist and its works so as to prove to others CONVINCINGLY that this organization is CERTAINLY the Antichrist?

LifestyleTonite:


Numbers 13:8 Mentions Ephraim as a tribe but is not mentioned in revelations.

I do t know why Dan was left out.

There are twelve tribes as in sons of Jacob (Israel) Jacob declared Joseph his first born meaning Joseph will have double potion of Jacob's inheritance. So instead of listing Joseph as part of the twelve, his two sons Ephraim and Manasseh becomes sons to Jacob making the tribes thirteen. So when ten tribes left after the death of Solomon remaining Judah and Benjamin in the south, the Levites remain in Jerusalem with the two tribes. That's why the southern two tribes were called Jews and the northern ten tribes called Samaritans. Jesus later condemned the worship of those going to Samaria saying salvation originates with the Jews (Judah and Benjamin) because that's where the Temple and the Levites are. John 4:22

#LifestyleTonite; When you're talking about the Antichrist, the Bible book of Revelations gave hints on how to RECOGNISE it. (1) It will come and give people MARKS on their foreheads and right palm.(2) ONLY those who accepts the MARK will be able to buy and sell.(3)Those who refused to accept the MARK will have to gain salvation by suffering intense hardship. Revelations 13:15-17 Perhaps if i start explaining with references from the scriptures you'll once again say "it's the interpretation of the JWs" so i'll leave you to figure out how a peaceful and easygoing group like the JW organization that you likened to the Antichrist could gain so much authority and affluence to start forcing people to receive their MARK,stop those who refused from BUYING and SELLING and start KILLING them for their refusal.

TATIME:
You're really knowledgeable walahi! So the word Virgins to you means they'll be men who never had sexual relations with women. Hmmmmmmmmm so pathetic. OK what about when the Bible mentioned a "scarlet coloured wild beast" with "seven heads and ten horns" from the "sea" and the "harlot" and the harlot sitting on the beast? Hmmmmmmm Thanks to Jehovah for giving us the GB,i wonder how those Pastors of your Church will be able to interpret all of that!

You can take 144000 literally but you want to take virgins in the same verse figuratively. Lol. I no fit laugh

#search4truth; Satan is really making use of you as you're furiously fighting against the truth. Just imagine,you're fighting hard and tirelessly with all your intellect against a religious group,claiming they are false yet you're insisting that people can worship ANYWHERE as long as they claims to be Christians. So which one you dey

Hairyrapunzel:

You can take 144000 literally but you want to take virgins in the same verse figuratively. Lol. I no fit laugh

Hmmmmmmmmm if you want to argue, go and meet the atheists they're always ready for that. As for what is WRITTEN in the Bible, whenever a number is mentioned it implies that there is a limited amount. So it's not necessarily 144,000 in number but certainly that means there is a limitation to that end!

TATIME:
Hmmmmmmmmm if you want to argue, go and meet the atheists they're always ready for that. As for what is WRITTEN in the Bible, whenever a number is mentioned it implies that there is a limited amount. So it's not necessarily 144,000 in number but certainly that means there is a limitation to that end!

What of virgins? Wherever virgins are mentioned in the Bible who does it refer to? Lol

Hairyrapunzel:

What of virgins? Wherever virgins are mentioned in the Bible who does it refer to? Lol

log onto JW.org Whatever answer you get is what my brains can contains,you know before na,why you come dey ask me again? After all you often say i be ZOMBIE.

search4truth.......... By now you should have discovered that each and all of the religious denominations carry their own measure of TRUTH and measure of ERROR.

Dont know may be your research and results you seek via this thread are attained.

TATIME:
log onto JW.org Whatever answer you get is what my brains can contains,you know before na,why you come dey ask me again? After all you often say i be ZOMBIE.

Why should i log unto a website written by imperfect uninspired, fallible men who err in doctrinal matters and organizational direction?

Your using virgins figuratively in a verse and using 144000 literally in that same verse is an error. I can't log unto an error filled site. Tufiakwa

achorladey:
search4truth.......... By now you should have discovered that each and all of the religious denominations carry their own measure of TRUTH and measure of ERROR.

Dont know may be your research and results you seek via this thread are attained.

Indisputably we all know that Jesus has a congregation,during His Revelations to John Jesus pointed to the errors in each of them as they are meeting together as smaller groups or congregations (Revelations 1:4) meaning there is no congregation without errors. The problem now is how to IDENTIFY those who are also gathering people (as congregations or churches) just to enrich themselves.If you don't know the features of true Christianity, how will you know those who are disguising themselves as Apostles of Christ. 2Corinthians 11:12-15 You and your friends have been able to single out Jehovah's Witnesses as a false religious group but i wonder why you're now having the problems to IDENTIFY those that a sincere and honest hearted person can associate with for continuous insight. Or should we conclude that it's ONLY the Jehovah's Witnesses that are false Christians when all the others are true? Keep deceiving yourselves.

Hairyrapunzel:


Why should i log unto a website written by imperfect uninspired, fallible men who err in doctrinal matters and organizational direction?

Your using virgins figuratively in a verse and using 144000 literally in that same verse is an error. I can't log unto an error filled site. Tufiakwa

Good! You've gotten it right once again, go and find the answers elsewhere because the website is where i'm learning ALL what i knew. So you need not ask me further questions since i'll be giving you answers from the JW.org. We should have a handshake for that wonderful agreement.

achorladey:
search4truth.......... By now you should have discovered that each and all of the religious denominations carry their own measure of TRUTH and measure of ERROR.

Dont know may be your research and results you seek via this thread are attained.

JW has always been absolutely filled with errors

TATIME:
#search4truth; Satan is really making use of you as you're furiously fighting against the truth. Just imagine,you're fighting hard and tirelessly with all your intellect against a religious group,claiming they are false yet you're insisting that people can worship ANYWHERE as long as they claims to be Christians. So which one you dey

I'm not suprised you would say satan is using me because I'm trying to point out some flaws in a religion that claims to be the truth and that won't hesitate to criticize other religions.

Should i say satan uses you guys too when you make derogatory statements about christians outside the organization that feel some of their teachings are right even if they are not.

At least those Christians you guys refer to christendom welcome other people's view concerning the bible but you guys feel you're perfect and have the truth so you refuse to accept people's opinion. Same way you refuse to read anyother christian literatures but the so called christendom openly welcome you guys when you go preaching to them and they even collect and read your literatures.

That's why people that know about the witnesses refuse listening or collecting their magazines because they know the witnesse won't even collect theirs talkless reading it.(Put yourself in their shoes- would you collect the witnesses literature knowing they won't ever accept yours?)
Does that sound like what a real Christians should do?

No matter how we brong out errors in the organizations doctrine, i know you're going to find an excuse or just look for a way around the discussion.
You need to be open minded brother TATIME. Life doesn't revolve around the JWs alone
Peace bro

TATIME:
Indisputably we all know that Jesus has a congregation,during His Revelations to John Jesus pointed to the errors in each of them as they are meeting together as smaller groups or congregations (Revelations 1:4) meaning there is no congregation without errors. The problem now is how to IDENTIFY those who are also gathering people (as congregations or churches) just to enrich themselves.If you don't know the features of true Christianity, how will you know those who are disguising themselves as Apostles of Christ. 2Corinthians 11:12-15 You and your friends have been able to single out Jehovah's Witnesses as a false religious group but i wonder why you're now having the problems to IDENTIFY those that a sincere and honest hearted person can associate with for continuous insight. Or should we conclude that it's ONLY the Jehovah's Witnesses that are false Christians when all the others are true? Keep deceiving yourselves.

Keywords: If you dont know the atrributes of true christians, How will you know those disguising themselves and branding themselves as JESUS' BROTHERS.

You still remember 2 Corinthians 10:12 for we do not dare to class ourselves or compare ourselves with some who recommend themselves. But when they measure themselves by themselves and compare themselves with themselves, they are without understanding.

My question to all of you is still the same "Are you saying as a JW a person won't see God's kingdom, and if so which religious group are we to associate with as Christians" simple and straightforward.

LifestyleTonite:
What you are saying now is that the word virgin is used to say someone is literally a virgin and also hasn't worshiped another god. In the case if Mary, she was a virgin and didn't worship another god.

Shouldn't it also means that those 144,000 will be literal virgins who also haven't wotshiped another god? I'm surprised that you want to ignore the literal part and go with the worship part so as to include Peter in the 144,000. I'm more surprised that you ignored the Bible passage wHuch mentioned that the 144,000 are people still on earth during the tribulation, whereas Peter is dead.

Pls don't misread or misquote me.
The Church is the bride of Christ. Does it mean that all members of the Church are virgins in a physical sense.? No. Rather, Christ views them as spotless, undefiled. In the same manner that virgins are viewed as pure, spotless.
Likewise , Jehovah views the 144,000 as spotless, undefiled,pure.

Is Peter the only member of the 144,000 ? No.

Jesus said. "he who stands firm to the end will be saved"

"And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations,and then the end will come". matt24:13,14.

Any unfaithful one of the 144,000 would lose his place if he backslides. Therefore, standing firm is of utmost priority even during the great tribulation.

achorladey:
search4truth.......... By now you should have discovered that each and all of the religious denominations carry their own measure of TRUTH and measure of ERROR.

Dont know may be your research and results you seek via this thread are attained.

Yea.. we know there are elements of truth and error in all religious denominations.
At least most other religions don't claim to be the truth and don't disfellowship or shun those that don't beleive in their doctrines anymore.

The main reason i opened this thread was to make those JWs who are open minded and feel they are in the Truth to know whats going on in the organization. Because its very obvious most witnesses especially in African countries don't know whats going in the organization or even the organizion history talkless the failed prophecies.

TATIME:
My question to all of you is still the same "Are you saying as a JW a person won't see God's kingdom, and if so which religious group are we to associate with as Christians" simple and straightforward.

I feel the main aim of the thread is still out there for all to see and the findings reached so far are staring us all in the eyes.

No need to respond to your latest question, you know why? I have been wondering what it would be like for you to call an HOUSEHOLDER a GOOD FOR NOTHING IDIOT out there in the field service and see the regret you live to tell.

Humble yourselves under the mighty hand of God. In due time He will exalt anyone who deserve such. Dont make claims that you cannot prove.