Dantedasz:


You know you are being economical with the truth about mariolatory. The same thing you did on the paedophilia Catholic priests thread.
I will get back to you when I get back from work.
So Mary that had other children after Jesus as stated in your Bible is a perpetual virgin ?
Mary that stated in Luke that she is a sinner is without sin according to you??
Mary also ascended into heaven like Jesus
These are just heresies and blasphemy based on Roman idolatry practises.
I will mention you when I get back....

no dear! I am never economical with the truth, I am pretty happily blunt in speech, in the other thread I remember speaking frankly too, let criminals be condemned, let victims receive Justice, let the accused be justly presumed innocent until otherwise is found...all in all let justice be rightly pursued, it is a pity you think that is economical.

When you come back please provide.

1. Any child in scripture who is identified as Mary's child.

2. The passage that Luke says Mary is a sinner.

3. Show me where I said Mary ascended into heaven, it seems you have ended mixing different things again, assumption and ascension aren't the same.


None of this is pagan, every part is Christian and held by every ancient church that can trace its linage back to the apostles.

The assumption of Mary is an example of a festival hinged on the whims and captives of any given Pope under the ambiguous umbrella of papal infallability. It is not scriptured. It has its roots in ancient Roman pagan rituals and worship. There is nowhere this assumption of Mary is located in the Bible except for conjectures and innuendos from passages in the scriptures vaguely interpreted by Catholics.
This assumption was never legitimate in Catholicism until 1st November 1950 when the then Pope Plus xii dogmatically defined the earthly body and soul of Mary to have been taken or assumed into heaven as the second Eve and mother of the Christos.
This festival of assumption of Mary is celebrated on August 15th and is a holiday in certain countries.
This assumption is not scriptural,but is vaguely based on Roman pagan worship of the goddess Diana,the virgin goddess of the moon and the hunt.
This Roman festival of the assumption of Diana was celebrated on August 15th,just like the assumption of Mary.
Diana was celebrated by the Roman belief that she was assumed into heaven as an eternal virgin and had become the queen of heaven.
This can not be a coincidence can it?
Finally even the Catholics are not clear on the place of this unscriptured assumption of Mary-is it from Jerusalem or from Ephesus?
@ubenedictus, more to come later.

Dantedasz:
The assumption of Mary is an example of a festival hinged on the whims and captives of any given Pope under the ambiguous umbrella of papal infallability. It is not scriptured. It has its roots in ancient Roman pagan rituals and worship. There is nowhere this assumption of Mary is located in the Bible except for conjectures and innuendos from passages in the scriptures vaguely interpreted by Catholics.
This assumption was never legitimate in Catholicism until 1st November 1950 when the then Pope Plus xii dogmatically defined the earthly body and soul of Mary to have been taken or assumed into heaven as the second Eve and mother of the Christos.
This festival of assumption of Mary is celebrated on August 15th and is a holiday in certain countries.
This assumption is not scriptural,but is vaguely based on Roman pagan worship of the goddess Diana,the virgin goddess of the moon and the hunt.
This Roman festival of the assumption of Diana was celebrated on August 15th,just like the assumption of Mary.
Diana was celebrated by the Roman belief that she was assumed into heaven as an eternal virgin and had become the queen of heaven.
This can not be a coincidence can it?
Finally even the Catholics are not clear on the place of this unscriptured assumption of Mary-is it from Jerusalem or from Ephesus?
@ubenedictus, more to come later.

again this isn't true, the assumption has been a feast since at least the 5&6 century, it just didn't spread to the west, so even though the West held the assumption as doctrine it wasn't a feast. Only in the east.

Again the Pope didn't proclaim it on a whim, the church petitioned the Pope on that feast, he asked every bishop and the overwhelming majority of the church already held the teaching... The Pope merely acted as a spokesman and proclaimed what is already believed. Again the assumption goes back to the early church

Ubenedictus:
again this isn't true, the assumption has been a feast since at least the 5&6 century, it just didn't spread to the west, so even though the West held the assumption as doctrine it wasn't a feast. Only in the east.

Again the Pope didn't proclaim it on a whim, the church petitioned the Pope on that feast, he asked every bishop and the overwhelming majority of the church already held the teaching... The Pope merely acted as a spokesman and proclaimed what is already believed. Again the assumption goes back to the early church

Is it scriptured in your Bible?
If so please direct me to the Bible passage.

@ubenedictus,
While you point out where the assumption of Mary is in the scriptures let me proceed to prove to you with scripture from your Bible that Mary can not be without sin.

Luke Chapter 2 verses 21-24.
Leviticus Chapter 12 verse 8.

LUKE 2 VERSES 21-24
.....................................

Luke 2:21-24 King James Version (KJV)
21 And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was called Jesus, which was so named of the angel before he was conceived in the womb.

22 And when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord;

23 (As it is written in the law of the Lord, Every male that openeth the womb shall be called holy to the Lord

24 And to offer a sacrifice according to that which is said in the law of the Lord, A pair of turtledoves, or two young pigeons.

King James Version (KJV).





LEVITICUS 12 VERSE 8
.......................................


Leviticus 12:8 King James Version (KJV)
8 And if she be not able to bring a lamb, then she shall bring two turtles, or two young pigeons; the one for the burnt offering, and the other for a sin offering: and the priest shall make an atonement for her, and she shall be clean.

King James Version (KJV).

^^^
As you can see above I have quoted your Bible to show you that Mary could not have been without sin.
Leviticus Chapter 12 verse 8 tells you what the law of God says concerning a Jewish woman who has given birth to child.
She is to present a pair of turtle doves or two young pigeons.
1. For a burnt offering.
2. For a sin offering.

AND THE PRIEST SHALL MAKE AN ATONEMENT FOR HER AND SHE SHALL BE CLEAN.

More to come @ubenedictus

Learn to read in context

Dantedasz:
@ubenedictus,
While you point out where the assumption of Mary is in the scriptures let me proceed to prove to you with scripture from your Bible that Mary can not be without sin.

Luke Chapter 2 verses 21-24.
Leviticus Chapter 12 verse 8.

LUKE 2 VERSES 21-24
.....................................

Luke 2:21-24 King James Version (KJV)
21 And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was called Jesus, which was so named of the angel before he was conceived in the womb.

22 And when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord;

23 (As it is written in the law of the Lord, Every male that openeth the womb shall be called holy to the Lord

24 And to offer a sacrifice according to that which is said in the law of the Lord, A pair of turtledoves, or two young pigeons.

King James Version (KJV).





LEVITICUS 12 VERSE 8
.......................................


Leviticus 12:8 King James Version (KJV)
8 And if she be not able to bring a lamb, then she shall bring two turtles, or two young pigeons; the one for the burnt offering, and the other for a sin offering: and the priest shall make an atonement for her, and she shall be clean.

King James Version (KJV).

the Bible tells us the reason for the sin sacrifice, it is for ceremonial cleaniness.

The Jews believe that touching blood makes someone unclean, a woman mensuration is also considered unclean, so too a woman who gives birth... The sacrifice is to make someone ceremonially clean.

So even if you are without sin when you give birth you must still offer that sacrifice, so as to be ceremoniously clean

F

Dantedasz:


Is it scriptured in your Bible?
If so please direct me to the Bible passage.

gen 3: 15.

Ubenedictus:
Learn to read in context the Bible tells us the reason for the sin sacrifice, it is for ceremonial cleaniness.

The Jews believe that touching blood makes someone unclean, a woman mensuration is also considered unclean, so too a woman who gives birth... The sacrifice is to make someone ceremonially clean.

So even if you are without sin when you give birth you must still offer that sacrifice, so as to be ceremoniously clean

You don't sound convincing but keep on wriggling there is more to come concerning Catholic worship of Mary based on heresy and pagan practices from Rome.
Please point out where the assumption of Mary is scriptured.

Ubenedictus:
F gen 3: 15.

GENESIS CHAPTER 3 VERSE 15.



Genesis 3:15 King James Version (KJV)
15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

King James Version (KJV)



How does this passage relate to Mary and the Catholic assumption?
This is directed at Eve and the serpent. Keep on wriggling. There is more to come.

[b]Catholics just pick dogmas out of the air and make them a part of their worship or modus operandi. The infallability of the Pope is a very large loophole which allows any given Pope to introduce whims and caprices into Catholic worship such as the statues and art work of Mary. Another is the introduction of the rosary which was not at the council of Nicaea but was a later invention and introduction stolen from Hinduism,Vishnu and Shiva all based on pagan origins.
The rosary has no backing in the scriptures in the Christian Bible but is a self invention and man made traditions by the Catholics.
Catholics do not appear to read their Bible or know what is written in it or choose to pretend not to know when it comes to declaring Mary as being without sin.
The book of Romans Chapter 3 VERSE 10 is very clear on sin but Catholics elevate Mary without scriptural backing to the Mother of God. Queen of heaven and through her statues and chanting of hail Mary convert Mary to a vessel to get to God.
None of these practices are based on scriptures but on heresies plucked from the depths of ancient Roman pagan rituals.
[/b]

Ubenedictus:
I remember my own consecration, it seems you must have missed the accompanying retreat because I distinctly remember that the consecration is TO Jesus through the patronage of Mary. I distinctly remember it based on the teaching of st Louis maria deMonfort who is emphatic in insisting that Mary is a mere creature, less than a speck before the awesomeness of the divine majesty made beautiful only by grace.

Coming from that foundation it is impossible to even worship Mary who is less than a speck.

We live as the apostles did, we are the heirs of their teaching the continually of the early church. Our understanding of Mary which is shared by all ancient churches both the Orthodox church and the Oriental church is the deposit of faith left by the apostles.

Dear, I went through everything and was the coordinator in my parish who train others for consecration.
Nobody convince me that what we were doing is wrong but the Holy Spirit.
Actually in words we say we don't worship her but in deed we do. How can you explain moulding a statue of someone and kneeling down to pray before it always. Sometimes kiss the image, carry the image on your neck and praying to her every 3 hours apart from the 150 daily hail Mary. Dedicate 2 months of the year for her with several days too.

See what the Bible says:
Exodus 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;


Romans 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

I don't know you but I will strongly advise you to try worshipping God in truth and in spirit in a Holiness preaching church.
God bless you.
You will see the difference when Christ comes into your life.

Youlyn:


Dear, I went through everything and was the coordinator in my parish who train others for consecration.
Nobody convince me that what we were doing is wrong but the Holy Spirit.
Actually in words we say we don't worship her but in deed we do. How can you explain moulding a statue of someone and kneeling down to pray before it always. Sometimes kiss the image, carry the image on your neck and praying to her every 3 hours apart from the 150 daily hail Mary. Dedicate 2 months of the year for her with several days too.

See what the Bible says:
Exodus 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;


Romans 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

I don't know you but I will strongly advise you to try worshipping God in truth and in spirit in a Holiness preaching church.
God bless you.
You will see the difference when Christ comes into your life.

then you must be a jjc in scripture.


That same Bible has images of cherubims molded in gold that the Israelites prostrated before when then pray and the holding of those images were reserved from priests. If that is not idolatry neither is the case of Mary.


Sorry dear, you were deceived. Praying in front of an image and even prostrating before same is found in scripture.

Dantedasz:




GENESIS CHAPTER 3 VERSE 15.



Genesis 3:15 King James Version (KJV)
15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

King James Version (KJV)



How does this passage relate to Mary and the Catholic assumption?
This is directed at Eve and the serpent. Keep on wriggling. There is more to come.

then you are ignorant of basic scriptural exegesis. That passage is called the proto evangelium, God's first declaration of the good news.

God prophesied an enmity between The Woman and the serpent and between the Woman's seed and the serpents seed. In the Bible only men have seeds except in this passage. This tells us how God will save us by a collabo of a woman and her seed that is Mary and her son conceived without a man.

The victory over the enemy is by both so too will they share it effects.

Dantedasz:
[b]Catholics just pick dogmas out of the air and make them a part of their worship or modus operandi. The infallability of the Pope is a very large loophole which allows any given Pope to introduce whims and caprices into Catholic worship such as the statues and art work of Mary. Another is the introduction of the rosary which was not at the council of Nicaea but was a later invention and introduction stolen from Hinduism,Vishnu and Shiva all based on pagan origins.
The rosary has no backing in the scriptures in the Christian Bible but is a self invention and man made traditions by the Catholics.
Catholics do not appear to read their Bible or know what is written in it or choose to pretend not to know when it comes to declaring Mary as being without sin.
The book of Romans Chapter 3 VERSE 10 is very clear on sin but Catholics elevate Mary without scriptural backing to the Mother of God. Queen of heaven and through her statues and chanting of hail Mary convert Mary to a vessel to get to God.
None of these practices are based on scriptures but on heresies plucked from the depths of ancient Roman pagan rituals.
[/b]

again you are back spinning tales...

The doctrine of infallibility doesn't give the Pope the power to invent doctrine, it simply confirms the Pope as spokesman for the church, it means he can confirm that which is already taught in the church and thus dispel fractions. The Pope doesn't invent doctrine, he confirms them against heresies.


The rest is your hogwash as usual.

Ubenedictus:
then you are ignorant of basic scriptural exegesis. That passage is called the proto evangelium, God's first declaration of the good news.

God prophesied an enmity between The Woman and the serpent and between the Woman's seed and the serpents seed. In the Bible only men have seeds except in this passage. This tells us how God will save us by a collabo of a woman and her seed that is Mary and her son conceived without a man.

The victory over the enemy is by both so too will they share it effects.

Ubenedictus, you spin so many webs,you should call yourself Spiderman.
I suggest you retreat to your safe haven cocoon thread called "A Thread for Catholics". That is the place where no one will tell you the truth and you and your fellow Catholics can continue burying your heads in the sand. See no evil and hear no evil.
However when you come out of that safe haven and come onto independent threads like this one expect to be schooled.
I was once a Catholic so all the pagan origins of Catholicism is well known to me.
I think me and you are done on this thread and you have not been able to convince me of any of your answers.
1. The idolatry worship of Statues of Mary as well as her image.
2. The chanting of hail Mary's as an intercession between man and God.
3.Claiming Mary is without sin.
4.Claiming Mary as the Mother of God.
5. The assumption of Mary.
6.Introduction of Rosary into prayers
7.What ever fancy catches the reigning Pope can be introduced into worship without support of scriptures under papal infallability.
None of the above is scripture but heresy and of Roman pagan origin.

Dantedasz:


Ubenedictus, you spin so many webs,you should call yourself Spiderman.
I suggest you retreat to your safe haven cocoon thread called "A Thread for Catholics". That is the place where no one will tell you the truth and you and your fellow Catholics can continue burying your heads in the sand. See no evil and hear no evil.
However when you come out of that safe haven and come onto independent threads like this one expect to be schooled.
I was once a Catholic so all the pagan origins of Catholicism is well known to me.
I think me and you are done on this thread and you have not been able to convince me of any of your answers.
1. The idolatry worship of Statues of Mary as well as her image.
2. The chanting of hail Mary's as an intercession between man and God.
3.Claiming Mary is without sin.
4.Claiming Mary as the Mother of God.
5. The assumption of Mary.
6.Introduction of Rosary into prayers
7.What ever fancy catches the reigning Pope can be introduced into worship without support of scriptures under papal infallability.
None of the above is scripture but heresy and of Roman pagan origin.

Talking of web spinning, that seems to be your job description, you have been trying to lie about Catholicism for so long now. First you confused mariology with mariolatry, then you showed your ignorance of sin offering meant to remove ceremonial uncleanliness, then you imagined wrongly that the Pope in the 19s proclaimed the feast of assumption on a whim, whereas it has been a feast since at least the 6th century, then you showed your ignorance of basic exegesis when you bundled the protoevangelium passage... You totally jumped the questions I asked you and went about trying to spin stories. I still hasn't worked for you and it seems you new tactics is to try to get me out of the thread. Well it won't work, I have freedom to be in whatever thread I want and address whatever issues I want.

Your claim of once being a Catholic only makes me pity you the more, you are like the kid in a story who threw away diamonds for stones. Your false accusation about worshipping the statue of Mary only shows that if you were indeed a Catholic you mush have been a very ignorant one. Hail Mary is ultimately a quote of a passage from the Bible and a request for intercessory prayers... If you didn't know that then I wonder if you really ever was a Catholic. No one claimed anything, Mary gave birth to a son who is God, she is mother of God incarnate, she was full of grace so I won't even mention sin around her.... That you can't see doesn't mean it is not there.

Ubenedictus:


Talking of web spinning, that seems to be your job description, you have been trying to lie about Catholicism for so long now. First you confused mariology with mariolatry, then you showed your ignorance of sin offering meant to remove ceremonial uncleanliness, then you imagined wrongly that the Pope in the 19s proclaimed the feast of assumption on a whim, whereas it has been a feast since at least the 6th century, then you showed your ignorance of basic exegesis when you bundled the protoevangelium passage... You totally jumped the questions I asked you and went about trying to spin stories. I still hasn't worked for you and it seems you new tactics is to try to get me out of the thread. Well it won't work, I have freedom to be in whatever thread I want and address whatever issues I want.

Your claim of once being a Catholic only makes me pity you the more, you are like the kid in a story who threw away diamonds for stones. Your false accusation about worshipping the statue of Mary only shows that if you were indeed a Catholic you mush have been a very ignorant one. Hail Mary is ultimately a quote of a passage from the Bible and a request for intercessory prayers... If you didn't know that then I wonder if you really ever was a Catholic. No one claimed anything, Mary gave birth to a son who is God, she is mother of God incarnate, she was full of grace so I won't even mention sin around her.... That you can't see doesn't mean it is not there.

Lol,
Beating around the bush.
Just like your hail Mary's, need less and end less.
Once again,you are not convincing any one that Catholics do not worship Mary's statues and images and have turned Mary into a sin less deity which she is not!

Dantedasz:



Lol,
Beating around the bush.
Just like your hail Mary's, need less and end less.
Once again,you are not convincing any one that Catholics do not worship Mary's statues and images and have turned Mary into a sin less deity which she is not!

no dear, why would I bother myself trying to convince you. your mind is made up, your eyes closed. I would rather pray for you.

Ubenedictus:
no dear, why would I bother myself trying to convince you. your mind is made up, your eyes closed. I would rather pray for you.

Pray for the paedophile Catholic priests to stop abusing young deaf choir boys and then hypothetically saying ten hail Mary's.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFDqSuUOLR8

Dantedasz:


Pray for the paedophile Catholic priests to stop abusing young deaf choir boys and then hypothetically saying ten hail Mary's.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFDqSuUOLR8

this must be an interesting attempt to divert the thread as usual... You remember you have tried this before?

I do pray for Catholic priests who are child abusers and also Protestant pastors and Jewish Rabbi and all their victims, but unfortunately that is not the topic of the thread.

Try another tactic.

olajide21:


Even Jesus can not answer your prayers except God; The Almighty, The omipotent, The Omnipresent, The Cteator of all, The One that ask us to call and He would respond.
Jesus, is not God and he never ask people to worship him rather he said you should worship The One true God! Jesus even prayed to God, why shouldn't you?

Jesus was born through immaculate conception, yes i agree,
Jesus spoke in his cradle, yes i agree.
Jesus healed the leper, by the permission of God.
Jesus blew the "Ruh" in an Object and it came alive, yes i agree.
Jesus ate, yes i agree
Jesus, slept, yes i agree
Jesus was beated, kicked, whipped, spat on and crucified..... mbanu, I I DO NOT AGREE!

Just like Elijah before him, Jesus ascended to the heaven!

Would Jesus return, YES I AGREE.

Neither.Sleep nor slumber over takes The Most High. Pray to God directly not through any saint and not through Jesus.

silent u,JESUS IS GOD.