Kobojunkie:

Oh, I sort to think you were considering all cases and not a handful . .  

You tell me. . .  is there any link to the yoruba way of life or the edo  way of life then? Please educate us on this please.

What of the yoruba culture leads you to believe that Violence with the women is cultural?

You will never be satisfied, will you?

An Ibo judge who is biased will judge an ibo man guilty of a crime he committed?

An ibo judge is biased if he finds an Ibo man guilty of battery when the evidence is overwhelming that he is?

***scratching head on this one ****

I just don't understand your argument, remember I didn't make these accusations. Stillwater claims that igbo men are more predisposed to kill their wives and their evil nature is due to their culture unless something is done about it. I responded by asking if other ethnic groups with the same issues are culturally linked: nobody could provide the answers. So, why judge igbo men differently from the way you judge others?

On yorunba womenn and violence: I don not believe they are culturally predisposed to be violent rather, they are more emancipated and are less likely to take BS from men than any other ethnic group in Nigeria. If you disagree with me, you may now tell me why 98% of violent cases involving abusive wives in Nigeria are Yorubas.

Aloy_Emeka:

me igbo? 

So whyy did the yoruba men kill their wives?. you refuse to give me answers or don't you have one?


Also, the no reported are so far 4 unless you have more and if you claim they are underreported, it also means other ethnic groups could be under reported too. I also asked you: why reports about violent women who either kill or cut off their husband's something in Nigeria are usually Yoruba women, is it the same cultural factor that must be addressed or what?

Who has more prevalent cases of wife killing in the US? That is why the original poster targeted the the Igbos, used Igbo examples and proverbs, took an excerpt from the book "Things fall apart", used Nollywood movies centered on the Igbos 'Omugwo and One dollar".

This is a piece from the original article

Statistics available have shown that more Igbo men have killed their wives in the US than their counterparts from other parts of Nigeria. Before then, many Igbo men had suddenly slumped and died - most of this happening in the Texas area of the US. During the period under consideration, (late nineties), a story line began to make the rounds. It was weaved and presented thus: a certain type of stockfish. Yes, Okporoko was the curse/cause!

You wanna tell me culture is not a factor here.

stillwater:

Who has more prevalent cases of wife killing in the US? That is why the original poster targeted the the Igbos, used Igbo examples and proverbs, took an excerpt from the book "Things fall apart", used Nollywood movies centered on the Igbos 'Omugwo and One dollar".

This is a piece from the original article

You wanna tell me culture is not a factor here.

I have given you the exact reported number as someone in the news and they are verifiable. Using a literature written by somebody that is subject to bias is beyond imagination. I am open to sound journalism and not one with an agenda. Things fall apart is a great book by Chinua achebe and I can't recall any part of it that claim that Igbo men kill their wives. As for Nollywood movie example you gave,  it shows I am giving you more credit than you deserve because you are one of those who use Nollywood stories to judge igbos.  Have you also seen the Nollywood movie where a man sleeps with his daughter, kill and dismember her for dinner. Is that also a factor in Igbo culture? .

Also, you keep dodging my question:

1. Use your analogy on Igbo men and why they are violent to explain to me the reason for the same behavior in Yoruba women?

2. What then is responsible for other non igbo Nigerian men who club their wives to death in America?. Is it because they were raised in igbo families or associate with igbo men or must have a long lost relationship with the igbo culture?

Aloy_Emeka:

I just don't understand your argument, remember I didn't make these accusations. Stillwater claims that igbo men are more predisposed to kill their wives and their evil nature is due to their culture unless something is done about it. I responded by asking if other ethnic groups with the same issues are culturally linked: nobody could provide the answers. So, why judge igbo men differently from the way you judge others?

When did I say Igbo people are evil? What is hard to understand that the Igbo culture allows for that adamant male domineering attitude hence the arrogance many of them exhibit in their marriages.

On yorunba womenn and violence: I don not believe they are culturally predisposed to be violent rather, they are more emancipated and are less likely to take BS from men than any other ethnic group in Nigeria. If you disagree with me, you may now tell me why 98% of violent cases involving abusive wives in Nigeria are Yorubas.

So why do you think Igbo men are more likely to commit murder if not for a culture that makes him think no woman should challenge him? It can't be because they are emancipated, what does he need emancipation for when he thinks he's king already? lol.

Aloy_Emeka:

I just don't understand your argument, remember I didn't make these accusations.

You did make accusations. You accused YORUBA women of being violent and I asked for the Cultural link for this assertion.

Aloy_Emeka:

Stillwater claims that igbo men are more predisposed to kill their wives and their evil nature is due to their culture unless something is done about it. I responded by asking if other ethnic groups with the same issues are culturally linked: nobody could provide the answers.

Actually, you were provided answers. The Ibo men on here provided you a bit of the answers and I also stated over and over that their exists that predisposition because of cultural beliefs that 'men are gods' and women in marriages ought to serve their men in that manner. None of the men so far DENIED that fact. There are several instances where women have been battered in such marriages. But you still conveniently side step all that to claim nobody has answers? If the cultural answers are not enough, what answers will help you here?

Let us take this from another angle. In some parts of Afghanistan, Culturally women are consider property and are not to have a mind of their own(not allowed freedoms). They are not allowed to be alone out in public, and with their heads and faces uncovered. In fact mercy killings are endorsed as way of saving families from shame. If a women decides to express herself and then gets stoned to death by her husband or killed to save face, are you suggesting we deny the cultural link here?

Aloy_Emeka:

So, why judge igbo men differently from the way you judge others?

Sigh!! How would you rather this be judged?

Aloy_Emeka:

On yorunba womenn and violence: I don not believe they are culturally predisposed to be violent rather, they are more emancipated and are less likely to take BS from men than any other ethnic group in Nigeria.

Western women are also emancipated, are we to conclude then that Western women are more violent than non-western, non-yoruba women? Is that also what you are saying? You are linking Violence to emancipation as you claim here and I wonder how?

Aloy_Emeka:

If you disagree with me, you may now tell me why 98% of violent cases involving abusive wives in Nigeria are Yorubas.

98% of abusive wives? Where do you get these figures from? lol
Lets assume they are mostly yorubas, what is the cultural angle here? Emancipation aka Freedom is cultural?

Aloy_Emeka:

I have given you the exact reported number as someone in the news and they are verifiable. Using a literature written by somebody that is subject to bias is beyond imagination. I am open to sound journalism and not one with an agenda. Things fall apart is a great book by Chinua achebe and I can't recall any part of it that claim that Igbo men kill their wives. As for Nollywood movie example you gave,  it shows I am giving you more credit than you deserve because you are one of those who use Nollywood stories to judge igbos.  Have you also seen the Nollywood movie where a man sleeps with his daughter, kill and dismember her for dinner. Is that also a factor in Igbo culture?

Go and sit down abeg. The author used examples surrounding Igbo. I highlighted to show you that the issue on this thread is more Igbo that whatever Nigerian tribe you deem fit to throw in here. Stop going offtopic abeg.

Kobojunkie:

You did make accusations. [b]You accused YORUBA women of being violent and I asked for the Cultural link for this assertion.Actually, you were provided answers. The Ibo men on here provided you a bit of the answers and I also stated over and over that their exists that predisposition because of cultural beliefs that 'men are gods' and women in marriages ought to serve their men in that manner. None of the men so far DENIED that fact. There are several instances where women have been battered in such marriages. But you still conveniently side step all that to claim nobody has answers? If the cultural answers are not enough, what answers will help you here? [/b]Let us take this from another angle. In some parts of Afghanistan, Culturally women are consider property and are not to have a mind of their own(not allowed freedoms). They are not allowed to be alone out in public, and with their heads and faces uncovered. In fact mercy killings are endorsed as way of saving families from shame. If a women decides to express herself and then gets stoned to death by her husband or killed to save face, are you suggesting we deny the cultural link here?

So in essence the non igbo men who kill their wives must have been influenced by igbo culture, abi?

Sigh!! How would you rather this be judged?Western women are also emancipated, are we to conclude then that Western women are more violent than non-western, non-yoruba women? Is that also what you are saying? You are linking Violence to emancipation as you claim here and I wonder how? 98% of abusive wives? Where do you get these figures from? lol

Look at local reports whenever you have time and make that judgment.

Lets assume they are mostly yorubas, what is the cultural angle here? Emancipation aka Freedom is cultural?

Remember you are the one trying to link culture to violence and not me. If you claim that there must be a cultural strain in the behavior of Igbo men who kill their wives, why are you hesitating to make similar claim for many Yoruba women slicing their husbands?

stillwater:

Go and sit down abeg. The author used examples surrounding Igbo. I highlighted to show you that the issue on this thread is more Igbo that whatever Nigerian tribe you deem fit to throw in here. Stop going offtopic abeg.

So in your own conceited mind, if the author used  examples "surrounding" Igbo, it means that igbos are only responsible for such heinous crime?. It's like you blatantly claim that igbos are killing their wives due to whatamacallit, any ignorant person reading it will automatically believe it to be true . I work with figures and that is why I keep records and statistics of news. Don't ask me why. Gone are the days when someone will pop out from anywhere and make a wide claim. It still works tho because if it worked on you, any other person can buy the story.


You people need to step aside from tribal bigotry and judge things like they really are for once otherwise Nigeria will continue to remain on its knees.

By the way, you haven't given me the reason for killings from other tribes. Since we have agreed the igbo killing is because of their culture, how do you explain the Yoruba and other tribes killing their wives?.

Aloy_Emeka:

I have given you the exact reported number as someone in the news and they are verifiable. Using a literature written by somebody that is subject to bias is beyond imagination. I am open to sound journalism and not one with an agenda. Things fall apart is a great book by Chinua achebe and I can't recall any part of it that claim that Igbo men kill their wives. As for Nollywood movie example you gave,  it shows I am giving you more credit than you deserve because you are one of those who use Nollywood stories to judge igbos.  Have you also seen the Nollywood movie where a man sleeps with his daughter, kill and dismember her for dinner. Is that also a factor in Igbo culture? .

Now you are just being corky!! By the way, you don't see Ibo Culture in all it's bloom on Nollywood movies, well at least the few I have seen.
Lol  . . . .  Things fall apart is not a book on ibo history. It is fiction and so should not be expected to contain all there is on Ibo people and Culture. Lol
By the way, your exact reports are nothing but exact. The number 9 you had there . . are you suggesting there have been only 9 killings involving Nigerians in America in the year 2010? Or in the UK in the year 2010? Or is that in Nigeria in the year 2010? I am confused cause I have no clue where those numbers come from but am willing to run with it just so we can get somewhere with this.

Aloy_Emeka:

Also, you keep dodging my question:
1. Use your analogy on Igbo men and why they are violent to explain to me the reason for the same behavior in Yoruba women?

You admit there is NO LINK to culture in your claim on yoruba women yet you are all too willing to compare the two side by side to achieve what exactly?

Aloy_Emeka:

2. What then is responsible for other non igbo Nigerian men who club their wives to death in America?. Is it because they were raised in igbo families or associate with igbo men or must have a long lost relationship with the igbo culture?

Non Nigerian men also do same in America, but where is the cultural link in cases involving Caucasians? Please answer this question.

Aloy_Emeka:

So in essence the non igbo men who kill their wives must have been influenced by igbo culture, abi?

Is that what you believe?

Aloy_Emeka:

Look at local reports whenever you have time and make that judgment.
Remember you are the one trying to link culture to violence and not me. If you claim that there must be a cultural strain in the behavior of Igbo men who kill their wives, why are you hesitating to make similar claim for many Yoruba women slicing their husbands?

I have looked at the local reports . . . it is hard to avoid them.
I NEVER claimed there MUST be a cultural link in the behavior of some Ibo men who kill their wives, just as I do not claim there MUST be a cultural link in the behavior of some Afghanistan or Algerian men who kill their wives either. But when there exists a pattern and in some of these cases these men give you clues to these links, why continue to deny it? A man tells you that the reason he killed his wife is because she brought shame to his family and you want to continue instead to deny the fact that his culture leads him to believe his wife ought to serve him and be under his control or be dealt with?

Kobojunkie:

Now you are just being corky!! By the way, you don't see Ibo Culture in all it's bloom on Nollywood movies, well at least the few I have seen.
Lol  . . . .  Things fall apart is not a book on ibo history. It is fiction and so should not be expected to contain all there is on Ibo people and Culture. Lol
By the way, your exact reports are nothing but exact. The number 9 you had there . . are you suggesting there have been only 9 killings involving Nigerians in America in the year 2010? Or in the UK in the year 2010? Or is that in Nigeria in the year 2010? I am confused cause I have no clue where those numbers come from but am willing to run with it just so we can get somewhere with this.

I do not understand the basis for your argument. It's either you don't read Stillwater who I reply or there is something missing in between. i believe I told her that I don't know how things fall apart came into this argument because I've read the book about 5x and cannot remember where it said that igbo men are killing their wives due to their arrogant culture.

You admit there is NO LINK to culture in your claim on yoruba women yet you are all too willing to compare the two side by side to achieve what exactly?
Non Nigerian men also do same in America, but where is the cultural link in cases involving Caucasians? Please answer this question.

Yes I admit there is no cultural link for the Yoruba women unlike you who agree there is a cultural claim in Igbo killings but hesitate to admit the cultural link in Yoruba killings. why the double standard?. I maintain my standard, human beings are predisposed to their emotions and most times a lot of factors may be responsible for wife killing/battering. No need to vilify one tribe against another especially when the difference is not much. From the reports so far in teh news, there are 4 igbos, 3 Yorubas , 2 Edos etc. I don't see the much difference between 4 and 3 to vilify one against another especially when you consider the population density of these tribes in the US.

Aloy_Emeka:

I do not understand the basis for your argument. It's either you don't read Stillwater who I reply or there is something missing in between. i believe I told her that I don't know how things fall apart came into this argument because I've read the book about 5x and cannot remember where it said that igbo men are killing their wives due to their arrogant culture.

Oh!! I thought you read the excerpts posted earlier from the book and references made to nollywood earlier there. My Mistake . . . I thought you were trying to validate those by claiming the whole book and nollywood movies all give a clear picture of the issues.

Aloy_Emeka:

Yes I admit there is no cultural link for the Yoruba women unlike you who agree there is a cultural claim in Igbo killings but hesitate to admit the cultural link in Yoruba killings. why the double standard?.

Ok . . . there is no cultural link for the yoruba women, so why do you bring that up in this debate then? I gave you the afghanistan example and wait your answer in that one. Please post an answer on that issue.

Aloy_Emeka:

I maintain my standard, human beings are predisposed to their emotions and most times a lot of factors may be responsible for wife killing/battering. No need to vilify one tribe against another especially when the difference is not much. From the reports so far in teh news, there are 4 igbos, 3 Yorubas , 2 Edos etc. I don't see the much difference between 4 and 3 to vilify one against another especially when you consider the population density of these tribes in the US.

Answer the Afghanistan question.

Anyways, that you do not see the difference does not mean those of us who see the problem should deny it. If anything, I have no cultural bias against any tribe or ethnic group in Nigeria. As I have said to this point, there is a link, I know it, and it is hard to deny. This link as it exists with Afghani tribes here and continuing to deny it means more lives probably lost and more lives made miserable by it.

Kobojunkie:

Oh!! I thought you read the excerpts posted earlier from the book and references made to nollywood earlier there. My Mistake . . . I thought you were trying to validate those by claiming the whole book and nollywood movies all give a clear picture of the issues.
Ok . . . there is no cultural link for the yoruba women, so why do you bring that up in this debate then?  I gave you the afghanistan example and wait your answer in that one. Please post an answer on that issue.
Answer the Afghanistan question.

Anyways, that you do not see the difference does not mean those of us who see the problem should deny it.  If anything, I have no cultural bias against any tribe or ethnic group in Nigeria. As I have said to this point, there is a link, I know it, and it is hard to deny. This link as it exists with Afghani tribes here and continuing to deny it means more lives probably lost and more lives made miserable by it.

I did not read any ercepts from Nollywood or otherwise because they are individual opinions. The Afghan issue is linked to honor which is not even an Islamic culture but we may batter this issues continuoosly with no end result. My reaction was to Stillwater's claim that igbo men kill their wives due to their cultural dispensation. Her theory is flawed on so many levels:

1) It is not only igbo men who kill their wives among Nigerians and the numbers do not vary by a large margin.
2) Igbo men who live in Nigeria rarely kill their wives
3) If igbo culture is to be blamed here, how do we explain Yoruba women who slice their men in drones?. As a matter of fact, the Yoruba women's issue is more dominant because the numbers vary by a large margin compared to other tribes.
4) How do you explain hausa/Fulani men who kill indiscriminately with their dagger whether you are their spouse or not?.

One common factor in these issues is anger and frustration: DO NOT PROVOKE PEOPLE OR PUSH THEM TO THEIR LIMIT IN ORDER TO TEST THE LEVEL OF THEIR SANITY irrespective of their ethnic affiliation BECAUSE THEY MAY REACT IN A WAY YOU CAN NEVER FATHOM. Killing spouses has nothing to do with tribes or ethnic groups. It is only tribalists who try to align it to other tribes and close their eyes on the speck in their own tribes.

Aloy_Emeka:

I did not read any ercepts from Nollywood or otherwise because they are individual opinions. The Afghan issue is linked to honor which is not even an Islamic culture but we may batter this issues continuoosly with no end result.

Enough with the dishonest debating please. I gave you info on the CULTURE, not islam. Answer the question please . . .

Aloy_Emeka:

My reaction was to Stillwater's claim that igbo men kill their wives due to their cultural dispensation. Her theory is flawed on so many levels:
1) It is not only igbo men who kill their wives among Nigerians and the numbers do not vary by a large margin.

You have no proof of the second part of this assertion.

Aloy_Emeka:

2) Igbo men who live in Nigeria rarely kill their wives

WRONG!! why? Because you again have no data supporting such an assertion on your end.

Aloy_Emeka:

3) If igbo culture is to be blamed here, how do we explain Yoruba women who slice their men in drones?. As a matter of fact, the Yoruba women's issue is more dominant because the numbers vary by a large margin compared to other tribes.

Again, trying to connect the disconnected does not a point make.

Aloy_Emeka:

4) How do you explain hausa/Fulani men who kill indiscriminately with their dagger whether you are their spouse or not?.

That is for another thread, we are focused on this particular issue. . .

I would have thought this issue is very simple. There is no need for the mud-slinging.

We are essentially talking about a transition from a place or places where the marital and familial culture is strongly patriarchal and authoritarian  to a place or places where the marital and familial culture emphasizes independence, consultation and gender equality.

At the end of the day it is clear that the ultra-conservative or control-obsesssed guy would have great difficulty in managing this transition.

Who said I'm even following a Nigerian men sef?
You guys are all the same. No respect for women whatsoever. Egotistical, arrogant etc.



Dude, you know nothing about me, dont let my posts on NL fool you. I'm a true Ekiti chick, I dont give crap, I dont take crap. If that's what they call feminism, well screw the English Language.

Point is, we have a real dilemma on our hands. Nigerian on Nigerian spouse killing is getting out of hand.

Are you trying to excuse murder?

I know y he referred to u as a case of feminism gone wrong, cos u definitely sound like one....all of a sudden a Nigerian woman realises she's got equal rights as her husband simply because she's now in the US or UK, well unfortunately most cases backfired on the ladies, I know a few here in the UK. And just so we know it happens with other African women too, not just Nigerians alone. But it's really sad cos I see Arabs and their wives still maintain the respect as their culture demands.