U all remind me of when I asked my ex to take pills the next day after a raw sex
And after break up, she said she did abortion for me,, ,,,,,me con confuse o

Blood is Life, and the foetus has blood, so yes it is. cos killing has to entail the spilling of blood.... i wish i have time, but ill leave it this simple.


The foetus actually experiemces pain and discomfort and responds to stimuli, it breathes and has a heartbeat....

johnydon22:
I do not have much interest in your thread having gone over it like a thousand times before. But there are some absurd assertions that caught my attention that i feel should be corrected.



1. It has been shown that fetus feel pain
2. It has been shown they recoil at discomfort.

Therefore, they are not oblivious to external stimuli not even to the threat of death.

3. Obliviousness is not an argument still to kill a human or we could all agree it is morally permissible to kill a comatose patient because, he is oblivious.

This is basically the most absurd assertion from this thread. There is no such a thing as a fully formed human. A human is a state of being not a stage stop conflating the two.

There is never a time something that isn't human becomes human at some point, anything that isn't human isn't human and cannot be human. A human is always a human but goes through several stages of being human.

Human adult
Human adolescent
Human child
Human baby
Human fetus

These are different stages of being human but in all these stages only one thing is constant, human.

An adult is no more human than an adolescent and thus down the chain.

So please, there is no such thing as a fully formed human, unless you should give us the definition of human on which you base this premise.

Cause and effect? It is not the child's fault at any instance.


What stops us from killing out every deformed person on earth now whether they are born or not?

That's just your perception and opinion
Will you or allow your wife to give birth to a child that will come out having down syndrome? Or conjoined twins?

johnydon22:
Yes. The very premise behind our moral abhorrence of murder is the belief in the sacredness of human life.

Who made it sacred?

Yes. Confirm it here: https://www.nairaland.com/4971620/what-purpose-earth-why-here#74935714

Miscarriage is what

johnydon22:


Only special cases where killing a human is. Excusable more like it.

-accidental
-self defence. (Meaning the life of the other is in imminent mortal danger)

Does this cover cases like rape, abduction and deceit? What of if the foetus is unviable eg has debilitating congenital defects? How about nature's spontaneous abortions?

See prove below

johnydon22:
I do not have much interest in your thread having gone over it like a thousand times before. But there are some absurd assertions that caught my attention that i feel should be corrected.



1. It has been shown that fetus feel pain
2. It has been shown they recoil at discomfort.

Therefore, they are not oblivious to external stimuli not even to the threat of death.

3. Obliviousness is not an argument still to kill a human or we could all agree it is morally permissible to kill a comatose patient because, he is oblivious.

This is basically the most absurd assertion from this thread. There is no such a thing as a fully formed human. A human is a state of being not a stage stop conflating the two.

There is never a time something that isn't human becomes human at some point, anything that isn't human isn't human and cannot be human. A human is always a human but goes through several stages of being human.

Human adult
Human adolescent
Human child
Human baby
Human fetus

These are different stages of being human but in all these stages only one thing is constant, human.

An adult is no more human than an adolescent and thus down the chain.

So please, there is no such thing as a fully formed human, unless you should give us the definition of human on which you base this premise.

Cause and effect? It is not the child's fault at any instance.


What stops us from killing out every deformed person on earth now whether they are born or not?

Matured and positive thinking people like you and others, are the very reason/reasons not to think that one can't benefit from nairaland. You are noted.

budaatum:
It's my body. If I want to kill off a part or all of it, your opinion does not count.

Lie, a fetus is not just your body, it's another living human

Abortion is murder!!!

Heathen777:
Abortion can't be likened to murder, because a fetus isn't a developed human being.

If I should chip in something, Biblically speaking, God views the fetus same way he views an adult...
In his law to ancient Israel, acceptable punishment for causing harm to your fellow man was "tooth for tooth, eye for eye, and life for life" At Exodus 21:22-24, God applied that punishment to harm caused to the fetus in a pregnant woman... It reads, (NWT 2015) "“22 If men should struggle with each other and they hurt a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely but no fatality results, the offender must pay the damages imposed on him by the husband of the woman; and he must pay it through the judges. 23 But if a fatality does occur, then you must give life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 burn for burn, wound for wound, blow for blow." So, it is obvious that God, the creator of human life views the life of an unborn child as precious as that of a full-fledged human... Therefore, from the Biblical and even the moral point of view, Abortion is the same as Murder...

budaatum:
It's my body. If I want to kill off a part or all of it, your opinion does not count.

It's part of your body, yes... But the owner will surely ask you of it....

Joromi12:
Miscarriage is what

It's a sad happening to the person that had it. I have never heard of someone that deliberately or happily had miscarriage.

i really don't know why nairaland is becoming demonic this morning
when two people have sex, what do you think will be the end product?
a baby right ?
so where is the baby ?
as an evidence that intimacy took place
please sex is not an exercise
go to the gym if you want to repair worn out tissues
once you have sex and can't account for the baby
you have committed murder
if you like, call it any name to suit your conscience

I believe that abortion is equivalent to murder in as much human life bigins at birth.
The encyclical, Humanae Vitae, by Pope Paul vi takes a firm stand on the protection of the sanctity of life. Thus if we all agree that foetus is a stage in human life, it posseses the basic characteristics as well as the potentials of man.

Morally, i don't know the answer. (hence the debate)

Religiously, people are quick to say its a sin. (Trust me if you truly obey all that is written in the Bible, you would end up in prison, that's how outdated religion is)

Legally, it's still open for wide debate worldwide and have never seen a woman convicted and sentenced for abortion.

Demographically, You doing the right thing not to overpopulate the earth.

Gender based theory - it's none of your business what any female tends to do with her body so long as she isn't posing a threat to you. Let her enjoy her right to life and liberty.

If truly all pregnancies were planned out, at the right time by the intending parents, the number of existing bastards will drastically reduce hence triggering the decline of urchin(street touts) and other desperados with no family and father figure but ready to do evil just to get paid.

Nigerians have become so indoctrinated that many of us can no longer reason objectively. How can ingenuity come from such a mental state? I think it is more wicked.to birth a child one is incapable of raising. Many kids in Nigeria are just enduring...the worse sin than abortion is bringing a child to this world who will not just be a problem to himself for want of proper care but a nuisance to other people in future.

I don't think abortion is legally murder.
Our fundamental human rights give us the right to life.
But human rights are only given to people at birth. They can't give a non-existent person human rights.
So it isn't murder because the child has no birth certificate. Hence in the eyes of the law, it shouldn't be counted as murder.
But it's still morally wrong and a big sin.

abortion is a big murder no doubt about that . because that is an innocent soul you are destroying

frosbel2:


But there are some similarities between abortion and murder

- They are both premeditated
- They are both done for selfish reasons
- They both have expected and unintended intended consequences.

Considering this brief narrative, what do you think,

- Is abortion on the same level of evil as murder
- Is there a special case where abortion is permissible
- Is abortion is not murder regardless ?


Lets discuss

Take note at the correction - they both have expected and intended outcome.

To your questions:
Abortion is same as pre-meditated murde
There are few instances when abortion is permissible - rape, fetus carrying diseases that could pose danger to the mother's life, etc
Same as one above.

#

My own is, don't bring a child into a world you are not ready to cater for.

Ihedinobi3:

As I said, the person in the situation will be the one to make the call. The only thing absolutely clear from the Bible is that abortion is not permissible on frivolous grounds. Beyond that, it's a gray area where every believer has to make the best choice they can with the guidance of the Holy Spirit in keeping with their developing understanding of the Bible.

Do you consider Numbers 5 frivolous grounds ie jealousy of a husband?

Numbers 5
27 If she has made herself impure and been unfaithful to her husband, this will be the result: When she is made to drink the water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering, it will enter her, her abdomen will swell and her womb will miscarry, and she will become a curse.

Which is why rationality is key. If u practice what u belief naively, u might end up shooting ur salf in the foot, u might make decisions that will for ever plunge u into heart ache .

Jokovic1:
i really don't know why nairaland is becoming demonic this morning

when two people have sex, what do you think will be the end product?

a baby right ?

so where is the baby ?

as an evidence that intimacy took place

please sex is not an exercise

go to the gym if you want to repair worn out tissues

once you have sex and can't account for the baby

you have committed murder

if you like, call it any name to suit your conscience

...
What about cases of rape??

This is the most sensitive discourse. Please, shall we get things right. Murder and abortion are two different constructs. Murder is termination of a life external. Abortion is termination of a life internal. The external life is conscious while the internal is unconscious. The rationale behind taking an external Life execpt by Justice is not moral and legal. The rationale behind an internal life may not be legal in Nigeria but in certain places. Nevertheless, it is moral if to save the mother or if it as a result of rape. However, every life is important human, animal and plants except that of a criminal. There is no such thing as purification from sins. A killer must be killed-Justice. Abortion becomes murder if only it is done selfishly.

Michellekabod1:

Aside circumstances were the attempted delivery of the child will pose a threatening to the mother's life (eg ectopic pregnancy),is there any permissible grounds for abortion?....can you kindly give an example

So let's say someone gets raped and got pregnant as a result of that rape. Not only that, let's say she also got infected with HIV Aids as a result. Now is it advisable to still go ahead and deliver that baby knowing quite well the pains the mother will feel every time she looks at that child knowing how it all happened. Plus is it advisable to give birth to an HIV positive child adding to the threat of the environment? Just a question.

What about a situae where your wife or daughter rape by 4 arm robbers

Look at a question

Ihedinobi3:

I don't understand. Do you know the moniker to have ever identified as male?

Take a look at the question.

Now Just look at the answer to the question.

MuttleyLaff:
Does it matter what pronoun budaatum decides to use for himself, afterall at the end of time, there'll be no male or female, for all are one in Christ Jesus.

My god
People that answer straightforward direct questions like this are deadly