In our world, nothing is spiritual. Everything, no matter how unbelievable, has a physical explanation. The near death experience, which is the last hope of believers in the spiritual and afterlife, is no exception. While reading up on near death experiences, I came across a website that did justice to this phenomenon. Please, read the it and offer your refutation if you have any.

What do you plan achieving with this post?

ABCthings:
What do you plan achieving with this post?

I plan on demystifying and educating people on the matter of near death experiences.

Martinez19:
I plan on demystifying and educating people on the matter of near death experiences.

I suppose you're an atheist am i right?

ABCthings:
I suppose you're an atheist am i right?

Yes. I know you will say that I am talking with bias but note that the website I provided has scientific evidences for it's claims and I asked for refutation for anyone if they have.

Do you believe humans emotions are controlled by chemicals?

ABCthings:
Do you believe humans emotions are controlled by chemicals?

Yes. As I have said, everything is physical. Nothing is spiritual.

Martinez19:
In our world, nothing is spiritual. Everything, no matter how unbelievable, has a physical explanation. The near death experience, which is the last hope of believers in the spiritual and afterlife, is no exception. While reading up on near death experiences, I came across a website that did justice to this phenomenon. Please, read the it and offer your refutation if you have any.

You are trying hard to have faith in your Athistic Believes. Anything to hold on to will do!

It is called using the "Principle of Exception"!

The Argument goes like this:
Statement : Nigerians are not Caucasians, they are Black
Your Response : Nigerians are not Black! Because
1. There are many Albinos in Nigeria
2. The colour you call black is not actually Black but varying shades of Brown
3. Some Nigerians are actually light skinned e.g. Bob Risky

For the sake of Argument:
Let's assume that Near Death Experiences is a Kind of Dream or Hallucination;
How come those kinds of dreams and Hallucinations are often associated with Death traumas and not so common in ordinary dreams.

Note: Blind people (Born Blind) do not have visual images when drugs are used to induce hallucination.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rFW2lc3344&t=93s

Pls kindly explain the video using your Biology

Martinez19:
I plan on demystifying and educating people on the matter of near death experiences.

The evidence is not conclusive either side of NDE. In fact the direct seat of consciousness has not been established. So have fun say all NDE has been shown to be physically explained

GeneralShepherd:


The evidence is not conclusive either side of NDE. In fact the direct seat of consciousness has not been established. So have fun say all NDE has been shown to be physically explained

The evidence is conclusive that NDEs are purely chemical and psychological in nature.

Martinez19:
The evidence is conclusive that NDEs are purely chemical and psychological in nature.

Can you please show me this evidence?

Here is a study that suggests consciousness may exist outside of the brain.

AWARE—AWAreness during REsuscitation—A prospective study.

So there is definitely good resources that make good cases on both sides. Saying it is definitive is just choosing research that supports your worldview

GeneralShepherd:


Can you please show me this evidence?

Go read the article I provided. If you have read it and didn't see anything then bye bye.

Martinez19:
Go read the article I provided. If you have read it and didn't see anything then bye bye.

I was in your pit 5years ago.
You guys have a long way to go

Martinez19:
Yes. As I have said, everything is physical. Nothing is spiritual.

So you mean the thought of losing money or gaining it can trigger secretion of chemicals? Hmmm...
Man is basically a spirit, with a body and a soul to bridge the first two.

CodeTemplar:
So you mean the thought of losing money or gaining it can trigger secretion of chemicals? Hmmm...
Man is basically a spirit, with a body and a soul to bridge the first two.

Yes. Your thoughts can influences the secretion of neurotransmitters and hormones in the body. On the other hand, altering the brain's structure and neural activity can influence mood eg. those whose brains experience the downregulation of dopamine become depressed, easily stressed out, anxious and nervousness results.

Martinez19:
Yes. Your thoughts can influences the secretion of neurotransmitters and hormones in the body. Other the other hand, altering the brain's structure and neural activity can influence mood eg. those whose brains experience the downregulation of dopamine become depressed, easily stressed out, anxious and nervousness results.

But where does this thought come from now? the brain or the soul/spirit.

CodeTemplar:
But where does this thought come from now? the brain or the soul/spirit.

It comes from the brain, the prefrontal cortex of the cerebrum of a living brain.

Martinez19:
It comes from the brain, the prefrontal cortex of the cerebrum of a living brain.

Then how does the brain receive ideas and thought?
if we follow this you path of reasoning then ideas are just random thoughts. As a child of God they aren't to me.

Pls help me explain this!

Let's assume that Near Death Experiences is a Kind of Dream or Hallucination;
How come those kinds of dreams and Hallucinations are often associated with Death traumas and not so common in ordinary dreams.

Note: Blind people (Born Blind) do not have visual images when drugs are used to induce hallucination.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rFW2lc3344&t=93s

Pls kindly explain the video using your Biology

Martinez19:
I plan on demystifying and educating people on the matter of near death experiences.

CodeTemplar:
Then how does the brain receive ideas and thought?
if we follow this you path of reasoning then ideas are just random thoughts. As a child of God they aren't to me.

What I wrote does not mean ideas are random thoughts. However, some are, some are not. Ideas and thoughts come from within and can be brought about by stimuli from our environment. Spontaneity is not beyond the natural.

shadeyinka:
Pls help me explain this!

Let's assume that Near Death Experiences is a Kind of Dream or Hallucination;
How come those kinds of dreams and Hallucinations are often associated with Death traumas and not so common in ordinary dreams.

Note: Blind people (Born Blind) do not have visual images when drugs are used to induce hallucination.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rFW2lc3344&t=93s

Pls kindly explain the video using your Biology

@bold
The chemical and neural activities going on during death traumas is more pronounced and very very different than those that occur during sleep. Perhaps it takes only death traumas to produce these activities.

Even though she could be lying, I won't challenge her experience because it's 50-50. She could see before she got blind so I don't see how her brain couldn't be creating sceneries based on the changes her body was going through. Have you ever dreamt something was biting you only for you to wake up and see something poking you at the same area? The tunnel vision where people see a point of white light is explained in the meme below. The brain may build an illusion based on that.

Martinez19:

@bold
The chemical and neural activities going on during death traumas is more pronounced and very very different than those that occur during sleep.

Even though she could be lying, I won't challenge her experience because it's 50-50. She could see before she got blind [/b]so I don't see how her brain couldn't be creating sceneries based on the changes her body was going through. Have you ever dreamt something was biting you only for you to wake up and see something poking you at the same area? The tunnel vision where people see a point of white light is explained in the meme below. The brain may build an illusion based on that.

From a sceptical mind I watched this same video and as far as I can tell(from her words, body language and response), she seems to be telling the truth about her experience.

But, you should note some facts:
1. She was born Blind
2. She never could see
3. She was scared of her experience of SEEING during her NDE
4. She could see the Medical Practitioners working on her

[b]My question is, how is this possible?
How did a blind person generate such kinds of Imageries?

You might need to watch the clip again to be able to do justice to the question.

Martinez19:

@bold
The chemical and neural activities going on during death traumas is more pronounced and very very different than those that occur during sleep.

Even though she could be lying, I won't challenge her experience because it's 50-50. She could see before she got blind so I don't see how her brain couldn't be creating sceneries based on the changes her body was going through. Have you ever dreamt something was biting you only for you to wake up and see something poking you at the same area? The tunnel vision where people see a point of white light is explained in the meme below. The brain may build an illusion based on that.

From a sceptical mind I watched this same video and as far as I can tell(from her words, body language and response), she seems to be telling the truth about her experience.

But, you should note some facts:
1. She was born Blind
2. She never could see
3. She was scared of her experience of SEEING during her NDE
4. She could see the Medical Practitioners working on her

My question is, how is this possible?
How did a blind person generate such kinds of Imageries?

You might need to watch the clip again to be able to do justice to the question.

Martinez19:

@bold
The chemical and neural activities going on during death traumas is more pronounced and very very different than those that occur during sleep. Perhaps it takes only death traumas to produce these activities.

Even though she could be lying, I won't challenge her experience because it's 50-50. She could see before she got blind so I don't see how her brain couldn't be creating sceneries based on the changes her body was going through. Have you ever dreamt something was biting you only for you to wake up and see something poking you at the same area? The tunnel vision where people see a point of white light is explained in the meme below. The brain may build an illusion based on that.

Lol. Keep schooling these clowns, bro. They're desperately searching for their precious "GOD DID IT!" moment, instead of carefully rationalizing these NDEs. Smh. Must everything be spiritual?

XxSabrinaxX:

Lol. Keep schooling these clowns, bro. They're desperately searching for their precious "GOD DID IT!" moment, instead of carefully rationalizing these NDEs. Smh. Must everything be spiritual?

Lol. As I said in my OP, NDEs are the last hope of believers that the spiritual and afterlife exist. It hurts for their last hope to be shattered hence their desperate effort to spiritualise it and feign ignorance.

shadeyinka:

From a sceptical mind I watched this same video and as far as I can tell(from her words, body language and response), she seems to be telling the truth about her experience.

But, you should note some facts:
1. She was born Blind
2. She never could see
3. She was scared of her experience of SEEING during her NDE
4. She could see the Medical Practitioners working on her

My question is, how is this possible?
How did a blind person generate such kinds of Imageries?

You might need to watch the clip again to be able to do justice to the question.

If she was born blind, I very much doubt her experience but what do I know? Her claims need to be rigorously scrutinised because, as stated in the link I provided, all NDE claims crumble when the experiencer is thoroughly scrutinised.

@bold
Ose! CIA agent.

Martinez19:
If she was born blind, I very much doubt her experience but what do I know? Her claims need to be rigorously scrutinised because, as stated in the link I provided, all NDE claims crumble when the experiencer is thoroughly scrutinised.

@bold
Ose! CIA agent.

I think for you to doubt her experience without a conjent reason is being dogmatically biased. How can one doubt the fact that "I dreamed I was the President of USA"? It may not be logically plausible but it doesn't make her experience untrue.

In other words, if there is a valid reason to doubt her integrity, that would be logically valid reason to doubt her story. However, it would be illogical to doubt her subjective experience simply because it doesn't agree with your views.

In the Court of law, motive is important to establish a case of Murder. If she was acting a script; what do you think her motive was? (She wasn't even speaking as a Christian ot Theist).

I think it is safe to trust her testimony:

If her testimony (which is subjective) is true, how come she had a visual impression in "her hallucination"?


Don't avoid the implication "if her experience is true"!

Martinez19:
Lol. As I said in my OP, NDEs are the last hope of believers that the spiritual and afterlife exist. It hurts for their last hope to be shattered hence their desperate effort to spiritualise it and feign ignorance.

When you approach issues like this with the mentality of shattering hope and what not, it exposes you as a dogmatic atheist.

You like the tell believers here about the scientific method but go on to speak in absolutes.

A more scientific statement will say that it appears to be that NDEs are hallucinations. But you continue to claim that this cases has been done and dusted when it clearly isnt true.

I find this attitude very common in some atheists, including myself when I was one. Same as in Sam Harris and Hitchens , the dogmatism is beyond belief.

Am I asking you to believe in a God? No. If for example man actually has a consciousness that is not physical, do that prove God? NO!

But most atheists are by default unwilling to look into anything that may challenge their worldview. This is exactly what many Christians and theists do.

GeneralShepherd:


When you approach issues like this with the mentality of shattering hope and what not, it exposes you as a dogmatic atheist.

You like the tell believers here about the scientific method but go on to speak in absolutes.

A more scientific statement will say that it appears to be that NDEs are hallucinations. But you continue to claim that this cases has been done and dusted when it clearly isnt true.

I find this attitude very common in some atheists, including myself when I was one. Same as in Sam Harris and Hitchens , the dogmatism is beyond belief.

Am I asking you to believe in a God? No. If for example man actually has a consciousness that is not physical, do that prove God? NO!

But most atheists are by default unwilling to look into anything that may challenge their worldview. This is exactly what many Christians and theists do.

I didn't approach this issue like you say I did. In fact if I was dogmatic, why did I open room for refutations? I am ever willing to be open minded but you didn't bring any refutation or, perhaps, didn't read the article I provided through the link. All I did in that post to Sabrina was to state facts. If you have any refutation, bring it forward.

GeneralShepherd:


When you approach issues like this with the mentality of shattering hope and what not, it exposes you as a dogmatic atheist.

You like the tell believers here about the scientific method but go on to speak in absolutes.

A more scientific statement will say that it appears to be that NDEs are hallucinations. But you continue to claim that this cases has been done and dusted when it clearly isnt true.

I find this attitude very common in some atheists, including myself when I was one. Same as in Sam Harris and Hitchens , the dogmatism is beyond belief.

Am I asking you to believe in a God? No. If for example man actually has a consciousness that is not physical, do that prove God? NO!

But most atheists are by default unwilling to look into anything that may challenge their worldview. This is exactly what many Christians and theists do.

I love this.. This is true.

johnydon22:


I love this.. This is true.

I have never heard anything Christopher Hitchens and Sam Harris said that wasn't backed up by facts. While there are atheists that like crushing people's hope for the fun of it, I am not the type. GeneralShepherd accused me of being that type of atheists. How could I be a dogmatic atheist when I opened room for refutation? Has he brought any refutation? No! I claimed that a lot of NDEs phenomenon has a biological explanation and I provided an article to back that up. Where is his refutation?

@GeneralShepherd
Because atheists speakers say with confidence things they have studied that you don't know doesn't mean they are dogmatic. I am sure in the past and even today, scientists who talk about evolution with absolute certainty are seen as arrogant and dogmatic. When you don't know something, never call thoes that know it and are confident in their knowledge dogmatic. Go and study things for yourself.

What is wrong in speaking in absolutes when there are evidences to back my claims? The earth revolves around the sun, acceleration is independent of mass, Donald Trump is the president of the USA etc. are all absolutes.

But most atheists are by default unwilling to look into anything that may challenge their worldview. This is exactly what many Christians and theists do.

Wrong. Stop strawmanning to put atheists and theists in the same box. Show us evidence that Jesus and Yahweh are real and we will acknowledge his existence. We did not become atheists because we loved atheism but because we followed the evidence. Many atheists would love to have a god that meets all their needs. Mtewwwww.

I find this attitude very common in some atheists, including myself when I was one. Same as in Sam Harris and Hitchens , the dogmatism is beyond belief.

Little wonder you are now a christian. Not everyone can recognise what concrete evidences are. Here are three questions :
1) Show me instances where Sam Harris and Christopher Hitchens were dogmatic and said something without evidences or ignored evidences?
2) Why did you become an atheist in the first place?
3) Why did you become a Christian?
Answer and let's see who is stating things without facts.

A more scientific statement will say that it appears to be that NDEs are hallucinations. But you continue to claim that this cases has been done and dusted when it clearly isnt true.

Is that not what my article concludes with scientific facts? If not only does it appear to hallucination, it is indeed hallucination. These hallucinations can also be triggered by ketamine. Read the article well.

Lastly, NDEs are the last hope of believers in the spiritual and afterlife. In many forums debunking NDEs and in the comment section of the link I gave, theists get angry and defensive as if NDEs are their life support. It's good I demystify this nonsense because whether you like it or not, people believe NDEs and commit suicide when life get tough so that they can be in a better place. I ask again, do you have any refutation?