Frenchkiss564:
Omoh..... A lot of shit went down after the prophet's death.

some of these people that lives after his death aren't even as pious as we were led to believe. The truth can never be hidden for ever.

The day of judgement will surely churn out a lot of surprises but everyone will be busy with their own cup of tea.

may Allah save us

I feel you, my brother. The first time I heard how the so-called pious sahaba were warring amongst each other when rosool(SAW) had just left them, i lost 95% of my respect for them. I have never been so gutted in my life. Worse still, I learned it from a Christian. I could never have imagined those sahaba actually descended so low.
If I didn't know better I could have left the fold of Islam in the wake of the truth about the sahaba.

@ aadoiza, Frenchkiss564

That's the reason some of these scholars don't teach Islamic history and if they will, they only tell you sweet parts and not sorry parts.

Second, they are introducing truth to you via personalities. This is why people feel greatly disappointed when they discovered the real truth about some of these persons. Imam Ali ibn Abi Taalib says:

"The religion of Allah is not recognized through men, but through a sign of truth. So, know the truth and you shall know it's people."


I am not proselytizing my thought but truth be told, this is why Sunni especially the salafis hate the Shia because the later question the truthfulness, righteousness and credibility of many sahabah based on existing clear facts. Imagine, sahabah who drink alcohol, rape, kill unjustly, lies, violate ruling of Quran and sunnah of the Prophet etc and you are asking me to respect such and if I don't, I will be label "heretic and kafir". I will rather accept to be labeled than following monsters.


And don't get me wrong sirs, there are exceptional and excellent sahabah whose righteousness is incomparable. It is however an insult to these great ones when you put them in the same basket with some of the hypocrites and monsters among them saying all of them are righteous.

Frenchkiss564:
Omoh..... A lot of shit went down after the prophet's death.

some of these people that lives after his death aren't even as pious as we were led to believe. The truth can never be hidden for ever.

The day of judgement will surely churn out a lot of surprises but everyone will be busy with their own cup of tea.

may Allah save us

Imam Muslim also records:

"Muhammad b. Hatim – ‘Affan b. Muslim al-Saffar – Wuhayb – ‘Abd al-‘Aziz b. Suhayb – Anas b. Malik:

The Prophet, peace be upon him, said, “Some persons from among those who kept me company will meet me at the Lake-Fount. I will see them, and they will be presented to me. Then, they will be forced away from me. I will say: ‘O my Lord, my Sahabah! My Sahabah’. It will be said to me: ‘You do not know what they INNOVATED after you.’”

Sahih, (Beirut: Dar Ihya al-Turath al-‘Arabi) [annotator: Muhammad Fuad ‘Abd al-Baqi], vol. 4, p. 1800, # 2304 (40)
https://sunnah.com/muslim/43/56


# Today, majority of what we do are innovations of sahabah.

AlBaqir:
@ aadoiza, Frenchkiss564

That's the reason some of these scholars don't teach Islamic history and if they will, they only tell you sweet parts and not sorry parts.

Second, they are introducing truth to you via personalities. This is why people feel greatly disappointed when they discovered the real truth about some of these persons. Imam Ali ibn Abi Taalib says:

"The religion of Allah is not recognized through men, but through a sign of truth. So, know the truth and you shall know it's people."


I am not proselytizing my thought but truth be told, this is why Sunni especially the salafis hate the Shia because the later question the truthfulness, righteousness and credibility of many sahabah based on existing clear facts. Imagine, sahabah who drink alcohol, rape, kill unjustly, lies, violate ruling of Quran and sunnah of the Prophet etc and you are asking me to respect such and if I don't, I will be label "heretic and kafir". I will rather accept to be labeled than following monsters.


And don't get me wrong sirs, there are exceptional and excellent sahabah whose righteousness is incomparable. It is however an insult to these great ones when you put them in the same basket with some of the hypocrites and monsters among them saying all of them are righteous.

The emboldened couldn't be truer. However, when a disproportionately large number among the supposedly best generation of Muslims reportedly carried out some of the most vile, gruesome and inhumane acts in history how then do I make outsiders see the truism in that purported statement by Ali and, ultimately, the truth in Islam?

Let me put it nicely: We Muslims are supposed to be the embodiments of Islam, as Islam is not an entity, but if the best of us had big question marks on their personalities what perception would a truth-seeker have of Islam?

aadoiza:

The emboldened couldn't be truer. However, when a disproportionately large number among the supposedly best generation of Muslims reportedly carried out some of the most vile, gruesome and inhumane acts in history how then do I make outsiders see the truism in that purported statement by Ali and, ultimately, the truth in Islam?

Let me put it nicely: We Muslims are supposed to be the embodiments of Islam, as Islam is not an entity, but if the best of us had big question marks on their personalities what perception would a truth-seeker have of Islam?

# There was actually a long period when Islamic history was rewritten by liars. Thieves and corrupt people were adorned with golden characters and promoted over ages as best; and naturally people bought that over the years. At the same time, pious people were swept under the carpet.

At a time, Ahmad ibn Hanbal started an ideological thought which continues till date that ALL sahabah with no exception are righteous and are paradise bound. And whoever abuse anyone of them is not a Muslim.


Islam with its fundamentals and practice is free from personalities. Therefore when you preach Islam, don't preach personalities. Preach Islam as it is.

And how do you know the truth? From example, an hadith tells you that Prophet did an irrational deed or engaged in a filthy act. On the other hand, Quran tells you that "Muhammad has the best and exalted character". It is rational to follow Quran and disregard that hadith even if it is labeled authentic. Only Quran is regarded as 100% truth. Other books are not.

Another example is how to identify liars. Kindly read:
https://www.nairaland.com/4169105/abu-huraira-biggest-fraud-sunni#62315797

AlBaqir:



# There was actually a long period when Islamic history was rewritten by liars. Thieves and corrupt people were adorned with golden characters and promoted over ages as best; and naturally people bought that over the years. At the same time, pious people were swept under the carpet.

At a time, Ahmad ibn Hanbal started an ideological thought which continues till date that ALL sahabah with no exception are righteous and are paradise bound. And whoever abuse anyone of them is not a Muslim.


Islam with its fundamentals and practice is free from personalities. Therefore when you preach Islam, don't preach personalities. Preach Islam as it is.

And how do you know the truth? From example, an hadith tells you that Prophet did an irrational deed or engaged in a filthy act. On the other hand, Quran tells you that "Muhammad has the best and exalted character". It is rational to follow Quran and disregard that hadith even if it is labeled authentic. Only Quran is regarded as 100% truth. Other books are not.

Another example is how to identify liars. Kindly read:
https://www.nairaland.com/4169105/abu-huraira-biggest-fraud-sunni#62315797

Thanks.

aadoiza:

I feel you, my brother. The first time I heard how the so-called pious sahaba were warring amongst each other when rosool(SAW) had just left them, i lost 95% of my respect for them. I have never been so gutted in my life. Worse still, I learned it from a Christian. I could never have imagined those sahaba actually descended so low.
If I didn't know better I could have left the fold of Islam in the wake of the truth about the sahaba.

For me the action of the sahabas were based on what they learn from the prophet; especially the activities of early Muslims in medina prior the demise of the prophet.

Any religion fraught with violence and animosity against the 'non-believers' will sure affect the actions and the behavioral patterns of the adherents against the 'non-believers'.

true2god:
For me the action of the sahabas were based on what they learn from the prophet; especially the activities of early Muslims in medina prior the demise of the prophet.

Any religion fraught with violence and animosity against the 'non-believers' will sure affect the actions and the behavioral patterns of the adherents against the 'non-believers'.

Your conclusion is very very wrong. You judged the Prophet of Islam based on the henious crimes of some bastards. Why not judge him base on the righteous deeds of the good ones?

Anyway, here's the fact about the Prophet in his 23 years effort:

Surah Al-Jumua, Verse 2:

He it is Who raised among the inhabitants of Mecca an Apostle from among themselves, who recites to them His communications and purifies them, and teaches them the Book and the Wisdom, although they were before certainly in clear error"



# Another fact to the kind of people he tried to reform is this:

 Surah At-Taubah, Verse 101:

And from among those who are round about you of the dwellers of the desert there are hypocrites, and from among the people of Medina (also); they are stubborn in hypocrisy; you do not know them; We know them; We will chastise them twice then shall they be turned back to a grievous chastisement"


# And here's his success story:

Tawbah: 100

And (as for) the foremost, the first of the Muhajirs and the Ansars, and those who followed them in goodness, Allah is well pleased with them and they are well pleased with Him, and He has prepared for them gardens beneath which rivers flow, to abide in them for ever; that is the mighty achievement."


It is not a rocket science to understand that bad eggs will try to pollute the basket that carries it, and the good ones. You don't throw the basket and the good eggs away. Intelligent man will separate shaff from grains.

aadoiza:

I feel you, my brother. The first time I heard how the so-called pious sahaba were warring amongst each other when rosool(SAW) had just left them, i lost 95% of my respect for them. I have never been so gutted in my life. Worse still, I learned it from a Christian. I could never have imagined those sahaba actually descended so low.
If I didn't know better I could have left the fold of Islam in the wake of the truth about the sahaba.

And these people lived and dined with the prophet, saw him perform miracles, witnessed everything first hand and yet still stoop this low.

It is still a shock to me bro, if a Christian had told me this I would have swore with my life that none of the prophet's companion could perform this attraocities.

If we refused to talk about it how then are we different from the Christians with their "touch not my anointing thingy"

AlBaqir:
@ aadoiza, Frenchkiss564

That's the reason some of these scholars don't teach Islamic history and if they will, they only tell you sweet parts and not sorry parts.

Second, they are introducing truth to you via personalities. This is why people feel greatly disappointed when they discovered the real truth about some of these persons. Imam Ali ibn Abi Taalib says:

"The religion of Allah is not recognized through men, but through a sign of truth. So, know the truth and you shall know it's people."


I am not proselytizing my thought but truth be told, this is why Sunni especially the salafis hate the Shia because the later question the truthfulness, righteousness and credibility of many sahabah based on existing clear facts. Imagine, sahabah who drink alcohol, rape, kill unjustly, lies, violate ruling of Quran and sunnah of the Prophet etc and you are asking me to respect such and if I don't, I will be label "heretic and kafir". I will rather accept to be labeled than following monsters.


And don't get me wrong sirs, there are exceptional and excellent sahabah whose righteousness is incomparable. It is however an insult to these great ones when you put them in the same basket with some of the hypocrites and monsters among them saying all of them are righteous.

Clearly understood bro

What I know is the day of Judgement is pregnant with a lot of surprises.

Frenchkiss564:


And these people lived and dined with the prophet, saw him perform miracles, witnessed everything first hand and yet still stoop this low.

It is still a shock to me bro, if a Christian had told me this I would have swore with my life that none of the prophet's companion could perform this attraocities.

If we refused to talk about it how then are we different from the Christians with their "touch not my anointing thingy"

Thought provoking. It is good to learn their history truthfully. I am heartbroken reading your highlighted part.

However, I maintained that they must be respected still regardless for as long as we see them as Muslims. Otherwise, everyone would be insulting sahaba all the time. And whatever mistakes we see in them should be only used for educational purposes not mockery and insult.

As aadoiza rightly said, it is very bad and very unfortunate to learn about sahaba from nonmuslims especially if you're not firmly grounded. You could easily sway. Imam Ahmad ibn Hambal(ra) simply did not want to cause schisms in the ummah was probably the reason he summoned muslims to respect and honor them regardless of their shortcomings.

Remember that Allah will not ask any of us about the actions of each sahabi and generations before us. Their accounts are with Him(SWT).

Empiree:
Thought provoking. It is good to learn their history truthfully. I am heartbroken reading your highlighted part.

However, I maintained that they must be respected still regardless for as long as we see them as Muslims. Otherwise, everyone would be insulting sahaba all the time. And whatever mistakes we see in them should be only used for educational purposes not mockery and insult.

As aadoiza rightly said, it is very bad and very unfortunate to learn about sahaba from nonmuslims especially if you're not firmly grounded. You could easily sway. Imam Ahmad ibn Hambal(ra) simply did not want to cause schisms in the ummah was probably the reason he summoned muslims to respect and honor them regardless of their shortcomings.

Remember that Allah will not ask any of us about the actions of each sahabi and generations before us. Their accounts are with Him(SWT).

The sahabas never made any mistake bro. Stop covering evil out of religious conviction. Their action was pre-meditated and worthy of condemnation. How can you, without iota of conscience, develop a very strong sense of hatred against the family of your prophet which eventaully resulted into the death of his entire family? And for the records, the actions of Abu Bakr, Umar Ibn Kathab and Uthman ibn Affan (the first three righty guided khalifa) technically eliminated the entire household of the prophet, the event which resulted into the current ideological difference between the shia and the sunnis. Any moral soul should be reasonable in condemnation their 'game of throne' among the muslim ummah.

This history is never taught in any mainstream Muslim school. How can you avoid the mistake of the past when you don't want to learn form history? How can genuine healing be possible without reconciling the mistake of the past and teach the future generation to live in harmony and to avoid the same mistakes again?

true2god:
The sahabas never made any mistake bro. Stop covering evil out of religious conviction. Their action was pre-meditated and worthy of condemnation. How can you, without iota of conscience, develop a very strong sense of hatred against the family of your prophet which eventaully resulted into the death of his entire family? And for the records, the actions of Abu Bakr, Umar Ibn Kathab and Uthman ibn Affan (the first three righty guided khalifa) technically eliminated the entire household of the prophet, the event which resulted into the current ideological difference between the shia and the sunnis. Any moral soul should be reasonable in condemnation their 'game of throne' among the muslim ummah.

This history is never taught in any mainstream Muslim school. How can you avoid the mistake of the past when you don't want to learn form history? How can genuine healing be possible without reconciling the mistake of the past and teach the future generation to live in harmony and to avoid the same mistakes again?

Don't think one bit that I'm here to entertain you. You being a confused Christian, how does this concern you?. I am well aware of Christian tactics long enough.

true2god:
The sahabas never made any mistake bro. Stop covering evil out of religious conviction. Their action was pre-meditated and worthy of condemnation.


And for the records, the actions of Abu Bakr, Umar Ibn Kathab and Uthman ibn Affan (the first three righty guided khalifa) technically eliminated the entire household of the prophet, the event which resulted into the current ideological difference between the shia and the sunnis. Any moral soul should be reasonable in condemnation their 'game of throne' among the muslim ummah.

This history is never taught in any mainstream Muslim school. How can you avoid the mistake of the past when you don't want to learn form history? How can genuine healing be possible without reconciling the mistake of the past and teach the future generation to live in harmony and to avoid the same mistakes again?

I agree with your thought and that is naked truth which Empiree used to curry flavor sometimes.

Just as a point of correction, it is only in the dream of majority of scholars that they gave the title "RIGHTLY GUIDED CALIPHS" to the first three Caliphs. The three of them failed woefully the criteria of being RIGHTLY GUIDED caliph. This fact is fully exposed here:

https://www.nairaland.com/3038732/identifying-khulafau-rashidun-rightly-guided

Empiree:
Don't think one bit that I'm here to entertain you. You being a confused Christian, how does this concern you?. I am well aware of Christian tactics long enough.

Brother, the guy stated facts. Forget about whatever antics he might play. Today, people have access to information than you can ever think. Let's stop denying facts. We will look insincere.

AlBaqir:


Brother, the guy stated facts. Forget about whatever antics he might play. Today, people have access to information than you can ever think. Let's stop denying facts. We will look insincere.

You see, you will be making mistake made in the past. This is what Jamiu Adegunwa was saying, that Christians would say things in Islam to cause further disunity like the West are currently doing siding with Saudi over silly things to hate their fellow muslims. I don't entertain that one bit. It is a trick.

And ones they done with Saudi's alleged enemies, they come for Saudi and finish it off. And at that time, Saudi will not have any backings from fellow muslims. It is the same with Sunni/Shia. They poke their nose in what doesn't concern them and side with Shia for their comfort theoretically to chase Sunni away. When it is btw them and Shia, they start using all types of tricks and use Sunni text against Shia. At that time it will be difficult for Sunni to defend Shia.



This is why there was a saying:


"Islam is a religion without men (men made of dud-recycle paper brain). Christianity is men made of steel-stealth brain but without religion"



I have my reservation for sahaba altogether. The wisest thing to do in my opinion is to avoid speaking on differences except for academic purposes when necessary. Again, Allah will not ask us what sahaba did or didn't do. Q2:141.

This Ayah alone kills all types of arguments regarding sahaba to cause problems within the ummah. As you can see, Shia made that mistake by making it their aqeeda to curse some sahaba. Now shia Ulama are struggling to curb and reverse it. It is never too late. This is why I prefer opinion of Imam Ahmad ibn Hambal (ra). Allah will judge sahaba and He will not ask them about us too.

So the CHRISTIANs use this for strategic purposes not for love and affection for Islam. FAR FROM IT.

Empiree:
Don't think one bit that I'm here to entertain you. You being a confused Christian, how does this concern you?. I am well aware of Christian tactics long enough.

Check my post, I have condemned my fellow Christians many times. I am against so many things happening in the Christendom and I can highlight them if you don't mind. Religion should not make us deny facts or tell the truth.

true2god:
Check my post, I have condemned my fellow Christians many times. I am against so many things happening in the Christendom and I can highlight them if you don't mind. Religion should not make us deny facts or tell the truth.

refer to my last post up there

Empiree:
You see, you will be making mistake made in the past. This is what Jamiu Adegunwa was saying, that Christians would say things in Islam to cause further disunity like the West are currently doing siding with Saudi over silly things to hate their fellow muslims. I don't entertain that one bit. It is a trick.

And ones they done with Saudi's alleged enemies, they come for Saudi and finish it off. And at that time, Saudi will not have any backings from fellow muslims. It is the same with Sunni/Shia. They poke their nose in what doesn't concern them and side with Shia for their comfort theoretically to chase Sunni away. When it is btw them and Shia, they start using all types of tricks and use Sunni text against Shia. At that time it will be difficult for Sunni to defend Shia.



This is why there was a saying:


"Islam is a religion without men (men made of dud-recycle paper brain). Christianity is men made of steel-stealth brain but without religion"



I have my reservation for sahaba altogether. The wisest thing to do in my opinion is to avoid speaking on differences except for academic purposes when necessary. Again, Allah will not ask us what sahaba did or didn't do. Q2:141.

This Ayah alone kills all types of arguments regarding sahaba to cause problems within the ummah. As you can see, Shia made that mistake by making it their aqeeda to curse some sahaba. Now shia Ulama are struggling to curb and reverse it. It is never too late. This is why I prefer opinion of Imam Ahmad ibn Hambal (ra). Allah will judge sahaba and He will not ask them about us too.

So the CHRISTIANs use this for strategic purposes not for love and affection for Islam. FAR FROM IT.

Human beings will always have issues with this type of reasoning; having a siege mentality. Instead of solving a problem you accuse the person that point out flaws as the bad person. I told you in my previous post that there is no perfect religion but you always say otherwise.

Empiree:
You see, you will be making mistake made in the past. This is what Jamiu Adegunwa was saying, that Christians would say things in Islam to cause further disunity like the West are currently doing siding with Saudi over silly things to hate their fellow muslims. I don't entertain that one bit. It is a trick.

And ones they done with Saudi's alleged enemies, they come for Saudi and finish it off. And at that time, Saudi will not have any backings from fellow muslims. It is the same with Sunni/Shia. They poke their nose in what doesn't concern them and side with Shia for their comfort theoretically to chase Sunni away. When it is btw them and Shia, they start using all types of tricks and use Sunni text against Shia. At that time it will be difficult for Sunni to defend Shia.



This is why there was a saying:


"Islam is a religion without men (men made of dud-recycle paper brain). Christianity is men made of steel-stealth brain but without religion"



I have my reservation for sahaba altogether. The wisest thing to do in my opinion is to avoid speaking on differences except for academic purposes when necessary. Again, Allah will not ask us what sahaba did or didn't do. Q2:141.

This Ayah alone kills all types of arguments regarding sahaba to cause problems within the ummah. As you can see, Shia made that mistake by making it their aqeeda to curse some sahaba. Now shia Ulama are struggling to curb and reverse it. It is never too late. This is why I prefer opinion of Imam Ahmad ibn Hambal (ra). Allah will judge sahaba and He will not ask them about us too.

So the CHRISTIANs use this for strategic purposes not for love and affection for Islam. FAR FROM IT.

Human beings will always have issues with this type of reasoning; having a siege mentality. Instead of solving a problem you accuse the person that point out flaws as the bad person. I told you in my previous post that there is no perfect religion but you always say otherwise.

If you watch CNN everyday, they bash Christianity, Catholics more than they bash Islam.

true2god:
Human beings will always have issues with this type of reasoning; having a siege mentality. Instead of solving a problem you accuse the person that point out flaws as the bad person. I told you in my previous post that there is no perfect religion but you always say otherwise.

If you watch CNN everyday, they bash Christianity, Catholics more than they bash Islam.

since discussions about sahaba have been up for centuries did they solve it?.

And no, there is perfect religion and that is Islam. You are equating personalities with religion. Ofcourse, that 3 letters media outlets and others would bash Christianity because there are flaws in it and I am not talking about Christian history.

Empiree,

If you know what non-Muslim researchers have invested into Islamic studies, you wouldn't talk the way you are talking. Of the best Islamic historians were non-Muslims. Of recent, I came across a book written by a professor on Usul al-fiqh. I was dumbfounded. Usul al-fiqh

If by now, majority of the Muslims are still shying away from facts or hiding truth well established in our documents, we will be doing more harm than good.

Brother, nobody can hide anything from anybody in today's modern age. Well, Africa is still stuck in the past so is our local champion scholars. You know me from time immemorial, I am not afraid to dish out facts.

Empiree:
since discussions about sahaba have been up for centuries did they solve it?.

And no, there is perfect religion and that is Islam. You are equating personalities with religion. Ofcourse, that 3 letters media outlets and others would bash Christianity because there are flaws in it and I am not talking about Christian history.

# Only the Sunni especially the salafi are not ready to solve sahabah issues. Quran and hadith have clearly separate shaff from grains as far as sahabah are concerned. Whoever is not ready to live with fact will end up being fanatic and nuisance.

# CNN, or whatever bash every religion and spread massive propaganda. The point is atheism is spreading like fire in the western world and media is promoting it by making religion look bad to people.

# Yes, you are right and true2god is wrong by mixing up "religion" for "its adherents". The later could be flawed but the former is perfect. All divine religion are perfect for their respective time, and Islam complete them all and fit all time. I implore true2god to go and read Karen Armstrong's book, "Muhammad, the Prophet for our time".

AlBaqir:
Empir.ee,

If you know what non-Muslim researchers have invested into Islamic studies, you wouldn't talk the way you are talking. Of the best Islamic historians were non-Muslims. Of recent, I came across a book written by a professor on Usul al-fiqh. I was dumbfounded. Usul al-fiqh

If by now, majority of the Muslims are still shying away from facts or hiding truth well established in our documents, we will be doing more harm than good.

Brother, nobody can hide anything from anybody in today's modern age. Well, Africa is still stuck in the past so is our local champion scholars. You know me from time immemorial, I am not afraid to dish out facts.

I am not taking about hiding truth or fact. Ofcourse everything is in the open. I am taking about the way and intent of discussingg sahaba issue is pretty fruitless all the time. It hasn't solve anything for centuries and will not solve anything. It will only allow more divisions.

I just came across a thread in Christian section now titled something like Islam hatred of Jews and CHRISTIANS. One of the comments reads, "they even kill Shia". Few years ago in NYC, mayor sighted tragedy of karbala and how household of the prophet (saw) were killed. I believe you know this one. Question is, he doesn't even believe in Allah and he's showing "sympathy" for household of the prophet that he doesn't believe in?. It is a trick and there is always negative intent behind it. They stealthily took Shia for a ride. Anytime they get involved in Muslim affairs it is always questionable. The mayor stood openly condemning the killers of alhbayt. What message was he sending to Sunnis indirectly?.

This is someone who didn't believe in Allah. Doesn't believe Qur'an is the word of Allah. Didn't believe nabi is Allah's messanger. Abeg, what good comes out of that?.

They live to create situations that divide the ummah. I have long understood then very well. I am not saying non muslim couldn't have written benefitial books on Islam. Usually non muslims who embrace Islam know better than muslims born in muslim households because they took their time to research. But muslims barely research because they take knowledge for granted.

So I am always careful when Christians and jews suddenly show interest in discussing differences btw Shia and Sunni which is not their piority.

^^

Of course, the enemies will use whatever means to deepen our differences. It is left for Muslims to remove what they can hold on to.

So long Sunni continue to idolize some evil sahabah and continue to declare those who expose their fitnah as "kuffar", then it is Sunni who should be blame. The best they can do is to erase their documents that expose facts. Till qiyamat, people will continue discussing those issues unless the madness of "respect" all sahabah is removed. Sahabah are not bigger than Islam. We must protect Islam from their immortalities as people often judge Islam by them when we are hell bent protecting their actions.

Frenchkiss564:


And these people lived and dined with the prophet, saw him perform miracles, witnessed everything first hand and yet still stoop this low.

It is still a shock to me bro, if a Christian had told me this I would have swore with my life that none of the prophet's companion could perform this attraocities.

If we refused to talk about it how then are we different from the Christians with their "touch not my anointing thingy"

As in ehn. When I came to the realisation of some of the these truths I almost lost my mind. I never thought any of the supposedly pious sahaba could hurt a hair on anyone's skin but I was awfully wrong. And the final straw was when I read that it was our fellow Muslims, some of the people who wined and dined with rosool fa, who wiped out the lineage of our beloved prophet. Tears welled up in my eyes and I hated all of 'em for a while, but the hate subsided and I have stopped trying to model my life after them.

Empiree:
Thought provoking. It is good to learn their history truthfully. I am heartbroken reading your highlighted part.

However, I maintained that they must be respected still regardless for as long as we see them as Muslims. Otherwise, everyone would be insulting sahaba all the time. And whatever mistakes we see in them should be only used for educational purposes not mockery and insult.

As aadoiza rightly said, it is very bad and very unfortunate to learn about sahaba from nonmuslims especially if you're not firmly grounded. You could easily sway. Imam Ahmad ibn Hambal(ra) simply did not want to cause schisms in the ummah was probably the reason he summoned muslims to respect and honor them regardless of their shortcomings.

Remember that Allah will not ask any of us about the actions of each sahabi and generations before us. Their accounts are with Him(SWT).

I always respect your views, Empiree, even on this i still do. But you should know that some of us never had the luxury of having Islamic scholars in our families. Even the ile kewu wey we go na jeko jeko. And as a result, we only had access to a handful of Islamic materials prescribed by our Alfas. The materials and their sermons/preaching were our only sources of furthering our knowledge of Islam. Take note that information was not as widespread back then.
So, everything I'd ever heard or read of the sahaba were good things. They were sold to us like they couldn't do no wrong. Like they were the best set of people to walk on the surface of the earth. In fact, I don't have the right words or phrases to describe the goodness I thought these people exuded.
And then, of a sudden, some random non-Muslim made what I thought was serious allegations against my heroes. I thought he was crazy and at the same he provoked in me inquisitiveness. Hardly had I dug deep, before I was gobsmacked at a most harrowing truth that was laid before my curious eyes. I was gutted. I was disgusted. I was shattered. Do you know what that could do to one's psyche, Empiree? I believed these people were saintly for most of my life, man. You no go understand.
Nevertheless, I stopped hating them already. But I doubt I could ever hold them in much reverence as I used to. When their names are mentioned these days my head no dey swell again. Unlike then, my big head would literally swell. I have tried to force the swelling a few times but....
I will however continue to respect them for one thing: for dumping whatever the prevalent belief system was at the time and accepting Islam. E no easy to do.

aadoiza:

I always respect your views, Emp.iree, even on this i still do. But you should know that some of us never had the luxury of having Islamic scholars in our families. Even the ile kewu wey we go na jeko jeko. And as a result, we only had access to a handful of Islamic materials prescribed by our Alfas. The materials and their sermons/preaching were our only sources of furthering our knowledge of Islam. Take note that information was not as widespread back then.
So, everything I'd ever heard or read of the sahaba were good things. They were sold to us like they couldn't do no wrong. Like they were the best set of people to walk on the surface of the earth. In fact, I don't have the right words or phrases to describe the goodness I thought these people exuded.
And then, of a sudden, some random non-Muslim made what I thought was serious allegations against my heroes. I thought he was crazy and at the same he provoked in me inquisitiveness. Hardly had I dug deep, than I was gobsmacked at a most harrowing truth that was laid before my curious eyes. I was gutted. I was disgusted. I was shattered. Do you know what that could do to one's psyche, Emp.iree? I believed these people were saintly for most of my life, man. You no go understand.
Nevertheless, I stopped hating them already. But I doubt I could ever hold them in much reverence as I used to. When their names are mentioned these days my head no dey swell again. Unlike then, my big head would literally swell. I have tried to force the swelling a few times but....
I will however continue to respect them for one thing: for dumping whatever the prevalent belief system was at the time and accepting Islam. E no easy to do.

I understand. And fair enough. U can't blame Alfas back then. Even they knew, it wasn't proper to teach kids beyond literature they could comprehend.

For instance, they used to teach us, and memorized lots of small small ahadith that are relate to good things like "do unto others what you do to yourself" etc. They did not teach us in-depth marriage life of the prophet (saw). And usually they did not teach beyond battle of badr when it was subject of j!had. We can't blame them. Our brain could not absorb then what we know now. And also understand that, what we read in the books or heard about them could as well have been manipulated since we were not there at the time.

There were many amongst sahaba who knew little or nothing. We today know a lot more than them Islamically. We read more books and that was because they did not have this luxury have. But the reason we can not meet their standards is simply because they met the prophet (saw) and struggled with him. This is something we can not attain. Because of this, regardless how great a waliy is in our time can never match standards of sahaba.

For this, they earned our respect. We should not speak ill of them nor curse them.

Empiree:
I understand. And fair enough. U can't blame Alfas back then. Even they knew, it wasn't proper to teach kids beyond literature they could comprehend.

For instance, they used to teach us, and memorized lots of small small ahadith that are relate to good things like "do unto others what you do to yourself" etc. They did not teach us in-depth marriage life of the prophet (saw). And usually they did not teach beyond battle of badr when it was subject of j!had. We can't blame them. Our brain could not absorb then what we know now. And also understand that, what we read in the books or heard about them could as well have been manipulated since we were not there at the time.

There were many amongst sahaba who knew little or nothing. We today know a lot more than them Islamically. We read more books and that was because they did not have this luxury have. But the reason we can not meet their standards is simply because they met the prophet (saw) and struggled with him. This is something we can not attain. Because of this, regardless how great a waliy is in our time can never match standards of sahaba.

For this, they earned our respect. We should not speak ill of them nor curse them.

I think you're right. But they should have planted it in our subconscious that however good and perfect some individuals might appear to be they'll still have the ever-lurking Hyde persona in them.
Now what happened to those who never went to madrasa, many of whom I have got around, they'd die never knowing the atrocities some of their revered predecessors committed, which I don't think is fair. At least they are old enough to handle the truth. This "don't go there" attitude is bound to fail sooner or later.
All we're asking is tell us their good and bad sides, and then show to us they were, after all, humans too. Not hoarding information about them. Abi Islam na esoteric society? Where certain knowledge are kept secret from the majority of its members.
If we don't learn from our history we are doomed to repeat it.

I don't speak ill of them nor do I curse them.

aadoiza:

I think you're right. But they should have planted it in our subconscious that however good and perfect some individuals might appear to be they'll still have the ever-lurking Hyde persona in them.
Now what happened to those who never went to madrasa, many of whom I have got around, they'd die never knowing the atrocities some of their revered predecessors committed, which I don't think is fair.

Qur'an already answered this Q2:141.

And history wont repeat itself if people would abide by simply instruction Q3:103

Empiree:
I

But the reason we can not meet their standards is simply because they met the prophet (saw) and struggled with him. This is something we can not attain. Because of this, regardless how great a waliy is in our time can never match standards of sahaba.

For this, they earned our respect. We should not speak ill of them nor curse them.

# That's a pack of exaggeration. You mean you can not surpass and do better than for example the hypocrites among the sahabah just because he saw the Prophet?


For your information, Prophet told some of them that some people of latter generation will surpass them in faith and righteousness because they will not see me (the Prophet) Yet they will believe in me.

# When you talk mutlaqan with no restrictions, you oppose Quran, hadith and aql which clearly prove that some sahabah are candidates of hell fire.

The righteous and wali among them were no doubt better than angels and some prophets of Allah. These were best people that deserves praises and emulation.

Empiree:
since discussions about sahaba have been up for centuries did they solve it?.

They could not solve the problem because it is being used as a political tool to settle scores. Until they, shia and sunni, come together as one, the enmity will not go away for the next 1000 years. In Ireland, the Catholics and the protestants fought for over 200 years, killing and maiming each other, but today they have found a way to bury their difference and move along, to a very large extent.

Empiree:
And no, there is perfect religion and that is Islam. You are equating personalities with religion. Ofcourse, that 3 letters media outlets and others would bash Christianity because there are flaws in it and I am not talking about Christian history.

The bolded is an myth that only existed in your imagination; a sort of a self-inflated religious ego. In the early days of Al-jazeera, a supposedly Arab media, muslim critics are alweays invited to bash Islam (watch the video of the debate between Wafa sultan vs an Egyptian sheik). Al-jazeera was forced to stop this episode after a serious back-lash from the muslim world. There is no religion without it flaws as long as human beings are the custodians and the practitioners.