Empiree:
What is so painful is these fake atheists don't understand anything. Smh it is so painful and I have absolutely no time for explanatory analysis.

How do you know a real atheist?

najib632:


Allah is in a reality far greater and higher than ours, a 1000 year of ours is equivalent to one day with Him:
يُدَبِّرُ ٱلۡأَمۡرَ مِنَ ٱلسَّمَآءِ إِلَى ٱلۡأَرۡضِ ثُمَّ يَعۡرُجُ إِلَيۡهِ فِي يَوۡمٖ كَانَ مِقۡدَارُهُۥٓ أَلۡفَ سَنَةٖ مِّمَّا تَعُدُّونَ

(Sahih International)
He arranges [each] matter from the heaven to the earth; then it will ascend to Him in a Day, the extent of which is a thousand years of those which you count.

-Sura As-Sajdah, Ayah 5

Do you see the equation?
Speed = Distance/ Time


Speed = the affair

Time = day

Distance = a thousand years

Sidereal day = 23 H 56 min 4.0906 sec = 86164.0906 sec =Time

1000 years = 12000 months

Assuming L = The route length of the moon's trip in one month

Distance = 12000 × L where, L = vT
T = Period of moons
revolution
v = Relative speed to
star or universe =
ve.cosX
X = angle formed by
earth's revolution
during one
sidereal month
ve =Relative speed to
earth = 3682.07
km/hr

= 12000 × (ve × cosX) × T
= 12000 × 3682.07 km/hr × 0.89157 × 655.71986 hr
= 25831348035.086 km

Speed = 25831348035.086 km / 86164.0906 sec
= 299792.49 = Speed of light.

Allah's realm is different.

وَقُلِ ٱلۡحَمۡدُ لِلَّهِ سَيُرِيكُمۡ ءَايَٰتِهِۦ فَتَعۡرِفُونَهَاۚ وَمَا رَبُّكَ بِغَٰفِلٍ عَمَّا تَعۡمَلُونَ

(Sahih International)
And say, "[All] praise is [due] to Allah . He will show you His signs, and you will recognize them. And your Lord is not unaware of what you do."

-Sura An-Naml, Ayah 93

Are you saying Allah also work with time?

Empiree:
I thought you said "bye"?. Your conscience's killing you?. I can't make you understand anything, buddy. Your past two post got me thinking the bed to revisit replying you back and forth. It is ridiculous.

Lol and your consciousness didn't tell you that the phrase keep it to yourself is another way of saying goodbye? I just had to remind you oh how ridiculous your reasoning or thoughts are..

najib632:
Allah is the God of the living and the dead, the seen and unseen, the known and unknown. Allah is blanced and he had already told us that this life is a test and when we die, the reality will befall us. How we lived our lives will dictate our condition in the hereafter. It is from the grave that a soul will know wether it os destined to go hell or paradise.

Are you saying Allah can be seen while we are alive? Are you saying this life is not reality? What is the mechanism used by a soul to know, can you explain that?

najib632:


Because the test has come to an end and our purpose is not to see Allah but to worship Him and recognise His signs. You will agree with me that there are some functionalities of the brain that are not accessible to the human being, on judgement day this abilities will be accessible to the human and besides the deal is done. The veil between the spiritual realm and physical real will be lifted all dimensions will merge. So all the Jinns and the angels you deny their existence you will see them on that day, aliens or other creations of Allah will be seen too...

What test? Why exactly are we being tested in this body when the body is useless? If the purpose is to be in paradise or wherever, why didn't Allah just created us and put us there? Are we some kind of game that Allah and Satan are playing? You know, like chess where the puns are killed and taken by each player? Can't you see how ridiculous your justification of this Allah seem? This same Allah gave us the ability to recognize his signs and as well the ability not to, abi? How did he expect us to use what he gave us? Are you saying he has destined those who will be in hell already by giving them the ability to reject him? How then is he all-benevolent?

Lol, let's take for instance, my great grandfather who died about 100yrs ago, whose brain had been turned to fossil, how will parts of his brain be accessible? All these are bold claims, provide just one evidence to show they are true, objectively true.
I am not interested in your imaginations, I want truth only backed by facts and evidence.

najib632:


Yes of course!
How ?

Answer the question

najib632:


This reality is a test, we were created and given a choice to worship Allah alone without ascribing partners to Him in worship, those who let the devil misguide them(those who do not truly believe) will realise their stupidity and arrogance. While they were on earth they used to mock those who were not misguided by the devil (those who are sincere to Allah) and see them as fools and treat them harshly and tarnish their image, both will be paid with what they have earned.

This reality is not a test. There are many important things you and I do more than worshipping Allah. You don't worship Allah 24hrs, do you? You work for instance. If we were given a choice to worship Allah, then we were also given a choice not to, the question is why were we given a choice not to worship Allah by Allah who wants to be worshipped? It's not hard to see the fantasy, is it?

If there is a Devil who is misleading people, then Allah, if he exists is in tandem with him. Why can't Allah destroy this Devil so that his creations can face him alone and not have distractions,can't Allah kill the Devil?

najib632:


Allah is in a reality far greater and higher than ours, a 1000 year of ours is equivalent to one day with Him:
يُدَبِّرُ ٱلۡأَمۡرَ مِنَ ٱلسَّمَآءِ إِلَى ٱلۡأَرۡضِ ثُمَّ يَعۡرُجُ إِلَيۡهِ فِي يَوۡمٖ كَانَ مِقۡدَارُهُۥٓ أَلۡفَ سَنَةٖ مِّمَّا تَعُدُّونَ

(Sahih International)
He arranges [each] matter from the heaven to the earth; then it will ascend to Him in a Day, the extent of which is a thousand years of those which you count.

-Sura As-Sajdah, Ayah 5

Do you see the equation?
Speed = Distance/ Time


Speed = the affair

Time = day

Distance = a thousand years

Sidereal day = 23 H 56 min 4.0906 sec = 86164.0906 sec =Time

1000 years = 12000 months

Assuming L = The route length of the moon's trip in one month

Distance = 12000 × L where, L = vT
T = Period of moons
revolution
v = Relative speed to
star or universe =
ve.cosX
X = angle formed by
earth's revolution
during one
sidereal month
ve =Relative speed to
earth = 3682.07
km/hr

= 12000 × (ve × cosX) × T
= 12000 × 3682.07 km/hr × 0.89157 × 655.71986 hr
= 25831348035.086 km

Speed = 25831348035.086 km / 86164.0906 sec
= 299792.49 = Speed of light.

Allah's realm is different.

وَقُلِ ٱلۡحَمۡدُ لِلَّهِ سَيُرِيكُمۡ ءَايَٰتِهِۦ فَتَعۡرِفُونَهَاۚ وَمَا رَبُّكَ بِغَٰفِلٍ عَمَّا تَعۡمَلُونَ

(Sahih International)
And say, "[All] praise is [due] to Allah . He will show you His signs, and you will recognize them. And your Lord is not unaware of what you do."

-Sura An-Naml, Ayah 93

Pseudoscience, besides the fact that this calculation has been manipulated and calculated with non constant parameters, light does not represent Allah, light has been made to travel faster that 3.0 X 10⁸, why would you assume L is the route length of the moon's trip, why the moon and not the sun, after all light comes from the sun and not the moon? Do you know that given a set of non constant values your birthday can be calculated trickly. Please, my friend, pseudoscience is not a good thing, desist from self deceit, you need to see how hard I laughed

najib632:


Arrogance! Stop yourself from aging and dying. Infact let's not go too far stop yourself from excreting waste products from your body or design yourself to not breath oxygen or eat food .

Waking up by my might means I keep my health in check. I cannot stop myself from ageing and it's not Allah that makes me age either. I know why you're confused, it's because of your pseudoscientific nature. This baloney you posted up here is nonsense. Ageing can be prevented, we already know what causes ageing. Design yourself to not breathe oxygen, lol my guy your reasoning though

Aging has been reversed in human cells and a living mice. Once again, Allah has diminished.

najib632:


Their test is over...

Allah creates what He wills, only Allah has a will, the humans only have a choice but many do not know. Allah made the child to be a test to his parents, while his test was the discomfort of the ailment, for every discomfort a person suffers and endures for the sake of Allah will reward the person with what he cannot imagine and cleanse him of his sins and forgive him and have mercy upon him. Allah tests the soul with only what it can bear.

لَا يُكَلِّفُ ٱللَّهُ نَفۡسًا إِلَّا وُسۡعَهَاۚ لَهَا مَا كَسَبَتۡ وَعَلَيۡهَا مَا ٱكۡتَسَبَتۡۗ رَبَّنَا لَا تُؤَاخِذۡنَآ إِن نَّسِينَآ أَوۡ أَخۡطَأۡنَاۚ رَبَّنَا وَلَا تَحۡمِلۡ عَلَيۡنَآ إِصۡرٗا كَمَا حَمَلۡتَهُۥ عَلَى ٱلَّذِينَ مِن قَبۡلِنَاۚ رَبَّنَا وَلَا تُحَمِّلۡنَا مَا لَا طَاقَةَ لَنَا بِهِۦۖ وَٱعۡفُ عَنَّا وَٱغۡفِرۡ لَنَا وَٱرۡحَمۡنَآۚ أَنتَ مَوۡلَىٰنَا فَٱنصُرۡنَا عَلَى ٱلۡقَوۡمِ ٱلۡكَٰفِرِينَ

(Sahih International)
Allah does not charge a soul except [with that within] its capacity. It will have [the consequence of] what [good] it has gained, and it will bear [the consequence of] what [evil] it has earned. "Our Lord, do not impose blame upon us if we have forgotten or erred. Our Lord, and lay not upon us a burden like that which You laid upon those before us. Our Lord, and burden us not with that which we have no ability to bear. And pardon us; and forgive us; and have mercy upon us. You are our protector, so give us victory over the disbelieving people."

-Sura Al-Baqarah, Ayah 286

Balderdash!

Give a plausible, factual, testable, reproducible, systematic, empirical, logical, and objective evidence for this your claim of Allah. Telling us that someone did it is not enough. Who created a powerful being auch as Allah, who?

true2god:
I think you should debate religion and leave science out of it. When you attempt to 'force' science into the Quran, that is a recipe for more confusion. I really don't see any sense you make with this application of an unrelated scientific formula with a Qur'anic verse. You ended muddling up the whole argument.

Just tell us you don't know his mumbo jumbo we can understand that instead saying he should leave out science out of religion.

true2god:
I think you should debate religion and leave science out of it. When you attempt to 'force' science into the Quran, that is a recipe for more confusion. I really don't see any sense you make with this application of an unrelated scientific formula with a Qur'anic verse. You ended muddling up the whole argument.

tintingz:
Are you saying Allah also work with time?

Lol, don't mind the guy, he must have seen the useless equation somewhere on the Internet from websites that promote pseudoscience
As you can see, they had to do reverse calculation by first using the speed of light to get all the non constant values. Najib blindly took the calculation and tried to use it to prove God. The question is, how does the calculation of speed of light prove that the realm of God is different or God is real? Does that light represent Allah? Why was the moon used as reference, why not the sun? The moon is not even the source of light.

I don't blame him though for this desperation, he has further proved that there is no God anywhere and he is just a deluded fellow full of childhood indoctrination.

Empiree:
Just tell us you don't know his mumbo jumbo we can understand that instead saying he should leave out science out of religion.

These guys are just one kind that's why I didn't bother to reply, this thing is very obvious how were you able to easily tell that I was trying to show them, the time with Allah is in light years, and the so called Mr. Scientist Akin1212 could no even reason well sef. As if it's the Sun that humans use to keep track of the months on earth. The guy is mentioning light emitting from Sun I was expecting him to say something like A complete revolution around the Sun by the earth is 365.25 days. Another person is saying the nearest galaxy is 30+ trillion km away ... Damn bruh

usermane:

OK. By your interpretation of this verse, 1000 years is the duration it takes for matters here on earth to ascend to God, right? OK, and you calculate to the distance of ascent as 25 billion km from earth. After 25 billion km, these matter complete their ascent to Allah 's realm.

You heterodox Muslims have a serious problem. From which scholar did you learn your critical analysis? Who told you that I was Just typing around without full confidence in Allah's Qur'an.

usermane:


You now proceed to calculate the speed of light, quite accurate, hmmm? Scientific miracle of Quran?

But wait, the closest star to the earth is 37 trillion kilometers. Are the stars farther from the earth than Allah's realm - which is above the heavens(Outer space)?

Another problem is, why would intangible earthly matter or affairs even need to ascend to Allah like physical objects ascend, with scaler quantities like speed and distance?

Wouldn't this be redundant if God already knows the future, hears and sees everything.

Thus, you've misinterpreted this verse in bid to prove Qur'an miraculously confirms the speed of light. You've proven one wonder at the cost of what? A blunder.

I know, it is really impressive doing these calculations with one figure from Qur'an and several from outside Qur'an. And confirming speed of light or distance from the sun. But be careful. Not all that glitters is gold.

This is something that is obvious, when I tell you to seek for knowledge you will not listen. How will Allah the majestic be the one to gather our nonsense deads

تَعۡرُجُ ٱلۡمَلَٰٓئِكَةُ وَٱلرُّوحُ إِلَيۡهِ فِي يَوۡمٖ كَانَ مِقۡدَارُهُۥ خَمۡسِينَ أَلۡفَ سَنَةٖ

(Sahih International)
The angels and the Spirit will ascend to Him during a Day the extent of which is fifty thousand years.

-Sura Al-Ma'arij, Ayah 4

What's that bro? That ayyah was just to show Akin1212 of space time which he totally could not comprehend.
You as a Muslim should know that angels are the ones that are assigned special tasks. So please understand me first before you come a conclusion.

Akin1212:


Lol, don't mind the guy, he must have seen the useless equation somewhere on the Internet from websites that promote pseudoscience
As you can see, they had to do reverse calculation by first using the speed of light to get all the non constant values. Najib blindly took the calculation and tried to use it to prove God. The question is, how does the calculation of speed of light prove that the realm of God is different or God is real? Does that light represent Allah? Why was the moon used as reference, why not the sun? The moon is not even the source of light.

I don't blame him though for this desperation, he has further proved that there is no God anywhere and he is just a deluded fellow full of childhood indoctrination.

Which of the values there can you prove reverse calculations was done on?

tintingz:
Are you saying Allah also work with time?

Yes Allah uses time on his creations, it's not applicable to him.

najib632:
Yes Allah uses time on his creations, it's not applicable to him.

Allah using time is also applicable to him. Don't be bias.

tintingz:
Allah using time is also applicable to him. Don't be bias.

How is it being biased? Is it wise to be subjected to your own creation or it being subjected to you? What wrong with inventing a form of measurement? Even though Allah holds time in high by even swearing with it, it's not applicable to him. If time is applicable then that means He will die (I seek refuge in Allah from this statement).

najib632:
How is it being biased? Is it wise to be subjected to your own creation or it being subjected to you? What wrong with inventing a form of measurement? Even though Allah holds time in high by even swearing with it, it's not applicable to him. If time is applicable then that means He will die (I seek refuge in Allah from this statement).

How can you say someone make us of time and not applicable or bound to it, what kind of logic it that?

It's either Allah is bound to our time or bound to a time in another universe.

Akin1212:


Are you saying Allah can be seen while we are alive?

My statement doesn't in anyway point to that and no you cannot see him while you're a live and as I have told you before Allah wears a hijab of light to protect His creations.

Akin1212:


Are you saying this life is not reality?

Yea it's not the main reality. In the main reality you will never die again.

usermane:


What is the mechanism used by a soul to know, can you explain that?

I look around you, how many people do you know that have achieved true serenity by accomplishing their worldly desires? None... once you achieve or accomplish something you always want to do more, when you get tired you change a hobby, but afterall these you still don't feel at ease. That's why many people turn to drugs, so that they'll forget about these feelings and get a temporary pleasure. In a society where people are not poor they tend to be mostly very depressed, while those that are poor are occupied with chasing worldly things... when they encounter a difficult situation they take the sucide option. But in an Islamic society it's totally opposite except for those who do not adhere to the Islamic creed, wether the society is poor or not, it's the same thing. That's why people usually say the northerners like being broke, but it's not so it's because, "it's only in the remembrance of Allah do hearts find rest" and hence they're content with what they have, if the world would be more like this, there would be far less bad people in the society. If you try to rubbish my talk then tell me why you're always looking for a way of disproving the existence of Allah, when you already have much of your so called facts.

Akin1212:


What test?

Do you truly believe in and worship Allah?

Akin1212:


Why exactly are we being tested in this body when the body is useless?

The body is not useless it's the container for your soul and the appropriate material suited for the test.

Akin1212:


If the purpose is to be in paradise or wherever, why didn't Allah just created us and put us there?

It's Allah's choice for it to be so, we were created to be the ambassadors of Allah on earth. But, look at what we have become.

Akin1212:


Are we some kind of game that Allah and Satan are playing?

No we were not;

And We did not create the heavens and earth and that between them in play.

-Sura Ad-Dukhan, Ayah 38

We did not create them except in truth, but most of them do not know.

-Sura Ad-Dukhan, Ayah 39

If we were, Allah would not send messengers and prophets and destroy nations for their disbelief, and Allah will not always descend to the first heaven every Night to answer our prayers and forgive those who seek for His forgiveness and have mercy upon those who want mercy from Him. You're created to worship Allah alone without ascribing partners to Him in worship, if you fail you're a disgrace to Allah because, you will be trying to say that the angels were right and Allah was not (I seek refuge in Allah from that). But if you succeed Allah will brag about you to His angels and reward you with the highest form of reward.

وَمَا خَلَقۡنَا ٱلسَّمَٰوَٰتِ وَٱلۡأَرۡضَ وَمَا بَيۡنَهُمَا لَٰعِبِينَ

Akin1212:


You know, like chess where the puns are killed and taken by each player?

Please don't even compare Allah with Satan, if you were Christian that's your business but don't ever put Satan in the same league as Allah.

Akin1212:


Can't you see how ridiculous your justification of this Allah seem?

You're the one who doesn't understand it?

Akin1212:


This same Allah gave us the ability to recognize his signs and as well the ability not to, abi?

Yes He did and he will ask all of us about it.

Akin1212:


How did he expect us to use what he gave us?

Using the intellect and reflecting on the soul or being spiritual.

Akin1212:


Are you saying he has destined those who will be in hell already by giving them the ability to reject him?

Allah did not destine anybody togo to hell you're the ones who chose to. Just like he gave us the ability to reject him he also gave us the ability to acknowledge him. Allah is balanced;

وَقَالَ ٱلَّذِينَ كَفَرُواْ لَا تَأۡتِينَا ٱلسَّاعَةُۖ قُلۡ بَلَىٰ وَرَبِّي لَتَأۡتِيَنَّكُمۡ عَٰلِمِ ٱلۡغَيۡبِۖ لَا يَعۡزُبُ عَنۡهُ مِثۡقَالُ ذَرَّةٖ فِي ٱلسَّمَٰوَٰتِ وَلَا فِي ٱلۡأَرۡضِ وَلَآ أَصۡغَرُ مِن ذَٰلِكَ وَلَآ أَكۡبَرُ إِلَّا فِي كِتَٰبٖ مُّبِينٖ

(Sahih International)
But those who disbelieve say, "The Hour will not come to us." Say, "Yes, by my Lord, it will surely come to you. [ Allah is] the Knower of the unseen." Not absent from Him is an atom's weight within the heavens or within the earth or [what is] smaller than that or greater, except that it is in a clear register -

-Sura Saba', Ayah 3

Akin1212:


How then is he all-benevolent?

It's impossible to describe His benevolence... Although one of them is He letting you be a freeloader even after your disbelief.

Akin1212:


Lol, let's take for instance, my great grandfather who died about 100yrs ago, whose brain had been turned to fossil, how will parts of his brain be accessible? All these are bold claims, provide just one evidence to show they are true, objectively true.
I am not interested in your imaginations, I want truth only backed by facts and evidence.

I can't yet prove it to you, because I lack the knowledge and resources.

Akin1212:

Answer the question?

I cannot answer rubbish

Akin1212:


This reality is not a test. There are many important things you and I do more than worshipping Allah. You don't worship Allah 24hrs, do you? You work for instance. If we were given a choice to worship Allah, then we were also given a choice not to, the question is why were we given a choice not to worship Allah by Allah who wants to be worshipped? It's not hard to see the fantasy, is it?

We need to work to survive and even in our work we worship Allah. By being honest, and not deceiving people with prices, gaurding our chastity e.t.c. every good thing you do, you're worshipping Allah, it's not only praying 5 times a day fasting throughout the year and always engaging in remembrance of Allah, if you do All of this and you're not good to your parents and you have bad manners you will still be in serious trouble on judgement day.

Akin1212:


If there is a Devil who is misleading people, then Allah, if he exists is in tandem with him. Why can't Allah destroy this Devil so that his creations can face him alone and not have distractions,can't Allah kill the Devil?

I thought you were an old man why are you talking like a kid? The devil Iblis who is from another creation on this planet called Jinn or anunaki or whatever (you scientists don't believe in them but they're the Aliens people usually say they saw and it's mostly their space craft that are unidentified or some secret government ishh anyways research on area 51 and I told you to watch "the arrivals", but you refused how will I be able to convince you then when you'll not check my refrences?) failed his test and hence got damned and became the test for mankind, the mankind will get the ultimate reward for passing the test and Jinns too.

Akin1212:


Pseudoscience, besides the fact that this calculation has been manipulated and calculated with non constant parameters,

Prove it.

Akin1212:

]b]light does not represent Allah, light has been made to travel faster that 3.0 X 10⁸ [/b]

I never said it did represent Allah I was just showing the difference in our realms and Mr. Scientist it was approximated to 3 × 10 ⁸ m what I gave you is the standard international version.

Akin1212:


, why would you assume L is the route length of the moon's trip, why the moon and not the sun, after all light comes from the sun and not the moon?

Who is talking of light emitting, I am talking of light with respect to time .

Akin1212:


Do you know that given a set of non constant values your birthday can be calculated trickly. Please, my friend, pseudoscience is not a good thing, desist from self deceit, you need to see how hard I laughed

How am talking non constant values? Please don't be a red herring. All those values I gave were derived, so stop pretending you as a scientist should know better than I do.

Akin1212:



Waking up by my might means I keep my health in check. I cannot stop myself from ageing and it's not Allah that makes me age either. I know why you're confused, it's because of your pseudoscientific nature. This baloney you posted up here is nonsense. Ageing can be prevented, we already know what causes ageing. Design yourself to not breathe oxygen, lol my guy your reasoning though

There are people who are healthier than you are but they die suddenly without any ailment can you explain that? And yes design yourself not to breath oxygen. And I am not confused I see while you're blind. A person only seeks medicine when he knows that he's sick.
And a mad man sees sane men as mad men.

Akin1212:


Aging has been reversed in human cells and a living mice. Once again, Allah has diminished.

Can you show me someone that this process has been carried out on.



Balderdash!

Give a plausible, factual, testable, reproducible, systematic, empirical, logical, and objective evidence for this your claim of Allah. Telling us that someone did it is not enough. Who created a powerful being auch as Allah, who?[/quote]We have given you enough but you run away from it because in your heart there's lies, I still say it today if Allah was created I wouldn't worship him but the one who created Him. And that will never happen because Allah is uncreated our minds cannot comprehend we don't even know one gazillionth of what is out there and you're talking about Allah like an ordinary being because of your lack of spirituality and ignorance. I have a question for you too why are evolutionists not talking about the fossils of gaint humans that are being found, why don't they talk about Fibonacci sequence too?

tintingz:
How can you say someone make us of time and not applicable or bound to it, what kind of logic it that?

It's either Allah is bound to our time or bound to a time in another universe.

Time is a killer, and Allah will never die...

najib632:
Time is a killer, and Allah will never die...

Allah making use of time is bound to it, he operate with time making him subjected to it.

You can't tell me Allah use time, plan with time, think with time and not bound to time? That's illogical, bias, special pleading and nonsensical.

tintingz:


Allah making use of time is bound to it, he operate with time making him subjected to it.

You can't tell me Allah use time, plan with time, think with time and not bound to time? That's illogical, bias, special pleading and nonsensical.

That's your own "logic". And this is very simple, if Allah will not die how is he bound to time? Time is just a measuring tool for him. It is His creation and He chooses to do what ever he wills with it. There are many Hadith that talk about the things happening in this era that did not happen during the time of of the messenger of Allah S.A.W. Allah informed him of somethings that will happen in the future... If Allah was subjected to time then how comes He knows the future? And why wouldn't He die? Prove this for me...

najib632:
You heterodox Muslims have a serious problem. From which scholar did you learn your critical analysis? Who told you that I was Just typing around without full confidence in Allah's Qur'an.

This is something that is obvious, when I tell you to seek for knowledge you will not listen. How will Allah the majestic be the one to gather our nonsense deads

تَعۡرُجُ ٱلۡمَلَٰٓئِكَةُ وَٱلرُّوحُ إِلَيۡهِ فِي يَوۡمٖ كَانَ مِقۡدَارُهُۥ خَمۡسِينَ أَلۡفَ سَنَةٖ

(Sahih International)
The angels and the Spirit will ascend to Him during a Day the extent of which is fifty thousand years.

-Sura Al-Ma'arij, Ayah 4

What's that bro? That ayyah was just to show Akin1212 of space time which he totally could not comprehend.
You as a Muslim should know that angels are the ones that are assigned special tasks. So please understand me first before you come a conclusion.

Even if it were the angels that ascend, it makes no difference. It would mean that relative to us, these angels take 1000 earth years to reach Allah. So people'll live and die and decompose long before the angels who deliver people's affairs complete their ascent to Allah.

Also, my point still remain on the distance of ascent to Allah being less than the distance to the nearest star - Proxima Centauri, which is even within our Milky way galaxy.

Now, another problem with your calculation is how you apply affairs ascent time.

Affairs ascent duration = 1 Day = 1000 earth lunar years.

So, affairs ascent duration in earth seconds = # of lunar year days * # of seconds in sidereal day * 1000.

Now divide the distance by the number of seconds obtained above. Answer is going to be less than 1km/s.

Update:

I've checked all the tafsir at my disposal, none of them imply the angels relating affairs to God take any amount of time - sidereal day, & consider speed from that.

https://quranx.com/tafsirs/32.5

How you ask of me to seek Qur'an interpretation from ancient exegetes but you quickly overlook the interpretations of such exegetes on verses like 32:5 amazes me. Is it sincere that dismiss ibn Kathir only when you want to cook up scientific miracles? For all other issues- salat, fasting, dress codes, hudud laws - you must stick with Ibn Kathir and co., but not when you want to prove scientific miracles?

najib632:
That's your own "logic". And this is very simple, if Allah will not die how is he bound to time?

When someone is bound by time, it's not only about dying it's about being limited. Such entity is no different from every other limited entity.

Time is just a measuring tool for him. It is His creation and He chooses to do what ever he wills with it. There are many Hadith that talk about the things happening in this era that did not happen during the time of of the messenger of Allah S.A.W. Allah informed him of somethings that will happen in the future... If Allah was subjected to time then how comes He knows the future? And why wouldn't He die? Prove this for me...

Using the phrase Allah do whatever he will is like saying he can do meaningless things.

If time is a measuring tool Allah use that means he has a concept of time he use therefore he's bound to that time, it might not be our time but a higher/prime time.

Future is time, God is not out of scope of time.

Allah plan, reason, think, intervene. These all work with time.

tintingz:
When someone is bound by time, it's not only about dying it's about being limited. Such entity is no different from every other limited entity.

Death is a limit and Allah has no limit.

tintingz:


Using the phrase Allah do whatever he will is like saying he can do meaningless things.

Yes he can do things that are meaningless to you, but Allah is the most wise and never will he do something meaningless a man that's wise never does something meaningless it's now Allah that'll do something meaningless

tintingz:


If time is a measuring tool Allah use that means he has a concept of time he use therefore he's bound to that time, it might not be our time but a higher/prime time.

Future is time, God is not out of scope of time.

Allah plan, reason, think, intervene. These all work with time.

Time is a tool of Allah he decides how time will be... So how can you be subjected to your own creation? I keep on asking this question. Allah uses time as He pleases, He "used" time as a tool to plan and intervene amongst his creations, a little correction though all thought and reasoning were already done before the creation of time. Allah does not age, die or anything you think that's a limit, Allah is perfect.

najib632:
Death is a limit and Allah has no limit.

Why are you emphasizing only on death? Who's even arguing about Allah dying with you?

The premise is Allah is bound by time, like I said not necessary our time, it might be a higher time in another dimension. Such entity is no different from every other limited entity.

Yes he can do things that are meaningless to you, but Allah is the most wise and never will he do something meaningless a man that's wise never does something meaningless it's now Allah that'll do something meaningless

If I a leader told you I can do whatever I will and I slap you for no reason, what will you think of me? Am i reasonable slapping you for no reason?

This is how Allah behave doing unreasonable things and you guys still praise him for it using that lame phrase.

Time is a tool of Allah he decides how time will be... So how can you be subjected to your own creation? I keep on asking this question. Allah uses time as He pleases, He "used" time as a tool to plan and intervene amongst his creations, a little correction though all thought and reasoning were already done before the creation of time. Allah does not age, die or anything you think that's a limit, Allah is perfect.

Again, you can't create or use time without having concept of time, Allah reason, think and plan before he do things he even intervene, these are time base things, it shows there's a time in a dimension Allah is which he's subjected to or he in this our dimension and subjected to our time.

There's no living entity outside scope of time, your God is not motionless.

usermane:


Even if it were the angels that ascend, it makes no difference. It would mean that relative to us, these angels take 1000 earth years to reach Allah. So people'll live and die and decompose long before the angels who deliver people's affairs complete their ascent to Allah.

If people should die and decompose what would it change? Their deeds will be forgotten or what?

usermane:


Also, my point still remain on the distance of ascent to Allah being less than the distance to the nearest star - Proxima Centauri, which is even within our Milky way galaxy.

Now, another problem with your calculation is how you apply affairs ascent time.

Affairs ascent duration = 1 Day = 1000 earth lunar years.

So, affairs ascent duration in earth seconds = # of lunar year days * # of seconds in sidereal day * 1000.

Now divide the distance by the number of seconds obtained above. Answer is going to be less than 1km/s.

Update:

I've checked all the tafsir at my disposal, none of them imply the angels relating affairs to God take any amount of time - sidereal day, & consider speed from that.

https://quranx.com/tafsirs/32.5

[B]How you ask of me to seek Qur'an interpretation from ancient exegetes but you quickly overlook the interpretations of such exegetes on verses like 32:5 amazes me. Is it sincere that dismiss ibn Kathir only when you want to cook up scientific miracles? For all other issues- salat, fasting, dress codes, hudud laws - you must stick with Ibn Kathir and co., but not when you want to prove scientific miracles?[/B]

All I was doing was to show the existence of space time, but you couldn't comprehend, why is @Empiree not challenging my statement as you are?You wouldn't be wasting your time typing all of this if you read the story of prophet Muhammad S.A.W Isra and miraaj, You should know that angels are of different calibres and also that the heavens have doors, some shorter in distance than others while others are not.
From the hadith below how was this angel able to reach earth in such a short time, because of the special door that Allah had permitted only him to use.

Muslim reports from Ibn Abbas (may Allah be pleased with him) who said:

"While the Messenger of Allah (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) was sitting with Jibril he heard a creaking sound above him. Jibril looked up and said, 'This is [the sound of] a gate that has been opened in heaven today and has never been previously opened.' Then an Angel descended through it and came to the Prophet (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) and said, 'Rejoice in the good news of two lights that have been given to you such as no prophet before you has been given. [They are] Surah Al-Fatihah and the concluding [two] verses of Surah Al-Baqarah. You will never recite a word from them without being given the blessings they contain.' "
Sahih Muslim (Eng. Trans. 2/586 no. 1759)

Ibn Kathir is not the only scholar in Islam and as long as the views of a scholar are authentic from Qur'an and Hadith a Muslim can choose whose opinion he deems best for him or the opinion with much more evidence. In this case, it is a matter of philosophy I can choose any scholars opinion as long its from the Qur'an and Sunnah. Qur'an, Hadith transcends time and space you don't expect the scholars of before to have more understanding of the things that appear in the Qur'an that we only see occuring during ourtine than the present scholars. You can never respect your origin if you don't know your roots, that's why you disrespect the Orthodox creed because you don't know how the scholars suffered a lot of hunger and persecutions to guard the religion of Allah from filth (may Allah have mercy on them).

tintingz:
Why are you emphasizing only on death? Who's even arguing about Allah dying with you?

The premise is Allah is bound by time, like I said not necessary our time, it might be a higher time in another dimension. Such entity is no different from every other limited entity.

I still hold my stance that Allah is not subjected to time and it's a mesuring tool for him. You stay on your own opinion while I on mine, if he decides to stick to doing something in a particular way it's his choice and Allah has a way of doing things and in Islam it's called "SunnatulLah" - the way of Allah.

tintingz:


If I a leader told you I can do whatever I will and I slap you for no reason, what will you think of me? Am i reasonable slapping you for no reason?

This is how Allah behave doing unreasonable things and you guys still praise him for it using that lame phrase.

You always surprise me with your Jaheel statements, Wallahi I am beginning to doubt that you were once a Muslim. If Allah tride Ibrahim A.S., Ayyub and Musa A.S (that even died without entering Jerusalem) and all his prophets, who are you that you will not be tried, because you say you believe you will be left alone? No by Allah you must prove it. And those who do not truly believe in Allah will become losers like you, do not be a loser anymore.

"Do men think that they will be left alone saying, 'We believe', and that they will not be tested? We did test those before them, and Allah will certainly know those who are true from those who are false." [29:2-3]

" It is possible that you dislike a thing which is good for you, and that you love a thing, which is bad for you. But Allah knows, while you know not." Surah Al-Baqarah [2:216]

"O you who believed! Persevere in patience and constancy; vie in such perseverance; strengthen each other; and fear Allah that you may prosper." Surah Al-Imran[3:200] & "And seek (Allah's) help with patient, perseverance and prayer: It is indeed hard, except to those who bring a humbly submissive (to Allah)." Surah Al-Baqarah [2:45]

"Allah does not place a burden to a soul greater than it can bear. It gets every good that it earns, and it suffers every ill that it earns."Surah Al-Baqarah [2:286] & "So verily, with every difficulty there is relief: (repeated) Verily, with every difficulty there is relief. "Surah Al-Insyirah [94:5-6]

"So lose not heart, nor fall into despair: For you will be superior if you are true in Faith." Surah Al-Imran [3:139]

"Indeed, Allah has purchased from the believers their lives and properties (in exchange) for that they will have the garden (of Paradise)..." Surah At-Taubah [9:111]

"...and never give up hope of Allah's Soothing Mercy; truly No one despairs of Allah's Soothing Mercy, except Those who have no faith." Surah Yusuf [9:87] & "Despairs not of the Mercy of Allah: for Allah forgives All sins for He is Often- Forgiving, Most Merciful." Surah Az-Zumar [39:53].

The more Allah loves you the more harder your tests are. Prophets of suffer 2x more pain than others because they will receive a higher reward.

tintingz:

Again, you can't create or use time without having concept of time, Allah reason, think and plan before he do things he even intervene, these are time base things, it shows there's a time in a dimension Allah is which he's subjected to or he in this our dimension and subjected to our time.

There's no living entity outside scope of time, your God is not motionless.

Allah had been existing before the creation of the Universe and time started when Allah created the Universe and and this is inarguable. I will still tell you this the creations of Allah are the only ones subjected to time.

najib632:
I still hold my stance that Allah is not subjected to time and it's a mesuring tool for him. You stay on your own opinion while I on mine, if he decides to stick to doing something in a particular way it's his choice and Allah has a way of doing things and in Islam it's called "SunnatulLah" - the way of Allah.

This is not about opinions, this is an objective matter in logic and physics.

One can't be using time and not subject to time, your God revolve around time and you're still telling me he's not subjected to any time? No bias and special pleading in logic.

Except your God doesn't exist or he's motionless then we can agree your God is not subjected to time.

You always surprise me with your Jaheel statements, Wallahi I am beginning to doubt that you were once a Muslim. If Allah tride Ibrahim A.S., Ayyub and Musa A.S (that even died without entering Jerusalem) and all his prophets, who are you that you will not be tried, because you say you believe you will be left alone? No by Allah you must prove it. And those who do not truly believe in Allah will become losers like you, do not be a loser anymore.

"Do men think that they will be left alone saying, 'We believe', and that they will not be tested? We did test those before them, and Allah will certainly know those who are true from those who are false." [29:2-3]

" It is possible that you dislike a thing which is good for you, and that you love a thing, which is bad for you. But Allah knows, while you know not." Surah Al-Baqarah [2:216]

"O you who believed! Persevere in patience and constancy; vie in such perseverance; strengthen each other; and fear Allah that you may prosper." Surah Al-Imran[3:200] & "And seek (Allah's) help with patient, perseverance and prayer: It is indeed hard, except to those who bring a humbly submissive (to Allah)." Surah Al-Baqarah [2:45]

"Allah does not place a burden to a soul greater than it can bear. It gets every good that it earns, and it suffers every ill that it earns."Surah Al-Baqarah [2:286] & "So verily, with every difficulty there is relief: (repeated) Verily, with every difficulty there is relief. "Surah Al-Insyirah [94:5-6]

"So lose not heart, nor fall into despair: For you will be superior if you are true in Faith." Surah Al-Imran [3:139]

"Indeed, Allah has purchased from the believers their lives and properties (in exchange) for that they will have the garden (of Paradise)..." Surah At-Taubah [9:111]

"...and never give up hope of Allah's Soothing Mercy; truly No one despairs of Allah's Soothing Mercy, except Those who have no faith." Surah Yusuf [9:87] & "Despairs not of the Mercy of Allah: for Allah forgives All sins for He is Often- Forgiving, Most Merciful." Surah Az-Zumar [39:53].

The more Allah loves you the more harder your tests are. Prophets of suffer 2x more pain than others because they will receive a higher reward.

Allah test people when he already knows the outcome, does that make any sense to you? Allah tested Ibrahim to kill his son for him, he commanded Ibrahim to do what he(Allah) hate, your God knows the outcome yet he tested someone for meaningless reasons.

You can't even prove your God and you are telling me to prove something you yourself can't even prove? Did you reason before you made this statement?

If you don't see the absurdity in this, sorry I can't help.

Keep praising your God unreasonable actions.

Allah had been existing before the creation of the Universe and time started when Allah created the Universe and and this is inarguable. I will still tell you this the creations of Allah are the only ones subjected to time.

The universe has been existing, you have no evidence your God created the universe!

Assuming I want to follow this your claim, before creation where was Allah? What was he doing? What prompted him to start creating? Why did he choose that particular TIME to create? How did your God get the concept of six days of creation? How long did he took him to PLAN all this?

tintingz:
This is not about opinions, this is an objective matter in logic and physics.

One can't be using time and not subject to time, your God revolve around time and you're still telling me he's not subjected to any time? No bias and special pleading in logic.

Except your God doesn't exist or he's motionless then we can agree your God is not subjected to time.

We're a creation of Allah that's the physics he subjected us to. No body knows everything infact mans knowledge, with all the science and everything is still very little. So quit acting like all the physics in the multiple dimensions is the same and nobody knows About Allah except what he wills, but Allah knows everything about everyone else. Even scientists have different opinions concerning many phenomena

tintingz:


Allah test people when he already knows the outcome, does that make any sense to you? Allah tested Ibrahim to kill his son for him, he commanded Ibrahim to do what he(Allah) hate, your God knows the outcome yet he tested someone for meaningless reasons.

You're so pathetic, the ensense of a test is for your rank to increase in the eyes of Allah, after all that he endured Allah blessed him with prophets as his descendants and Allah made him His "friend", apart from prophet Muhammad S.A.W no one has a higher status in the eyes of Allah like Ibrahim A.S even prophet Muhammad S.A.W is the prayer of Ibrahim A.S that Allah had answered. Allah will surely reward beyond your imagination for what you endured because of him. Let's not even go too far to prophets of Allah or their companions, look at Imam Ahmad Ibn Hanbal (R)and what he endured because of the creed of Islam he refused to accept the creed of Islam to be changed and he suffered severe punishment and hunger for 30 years! If it was useless and he didn't truly believe in Allah would he have endured all that? Imam Abu Hanifa (R) he also suffered severe punishment because of his stance against corruption and also saved the people of Kuffa from the Khawarij, would he have endured all that if it was meaningless and there was nothing in return?

“It is only those who have knowledge among His slaves that fear Allaah”

[Faatir 35:28]

tintingz:

You can't even prove your God and you are telling me to prove something you yourself can't even prove? Did you reason before you made this statement?

If you don't see the absurdity in this, sorry I can't help.

Keep praising your God unreasonable actions.

The universe has been existing, you have no evidence your God created the universe!

You're a physically orientated person, what you see doesn't exist right? What do you say about atheists that become Muslims are they stupid? You say the Qur'an is a book of myths have you read it? You challenge prophet Muhammad S.A.W but you know nothing about him. Keep up your ignorance and it will cost you a big one. Tell me why everything in the universe fits into the Fibonacci sequence, and why does the Fibonacci numbers originate from one. If spirituality doesn't exist why are there people who claim to have contact with asthral entities and say tgey unlocked things like the third eye? Are the people who claim that they can do all this stupid?

tintingz:


Assuming I want to follow this your claim, before creation where was Allah?

There was no where, so He was every where.

tintingz:

What was he doing?

I don't know.

tintingz:

What prompted him to start creating?

His choice.

tintingz:

Why did he choose that particular TIME to create?

There was no time. Time started when the universe was created.

tintingz:

How did your God get the concept of six days of creation?

That's how he decided it to be.

tintingz:

How long did he took him to PLAN all this?

There was no time so it can't be measured, and when Allah wants something, Allah says "be" and it is. Stupid questions inspired by the devil.

najib632:
We're a creation of Allah that's the physics he subjected us to. No body knows everything infact mans knowledge, with all the science and everything is still very little. So quit acting like all the physics in the multiple dimensions is the same and nobody knows About Allah except what he wills, but Allah knows everything about everyone else. Even scientists have different opinions concerning many phenomena.

Stick to the premise.

There's no entity outside scope of time except such entity is non-existing.

You're so pathetic, the ensense of a test is for your rank to increase in the eyes of Allah, after all that he endured Allah blessed him with prophets as his descendants and Allah made him His "friend", apart from prophet Muhammad S.A.W no one has a higher status in the eyes of Allah like Ibrahim A.S even prophet Muhammad S.A.W is the prayer of Ibrahim A.S that Allah had answered. Allah will surely reward beyond your imagination for what you endured because of him. Let's not even go too far to prophets of Allah or their companions, look at Imam Ahmad Ibn Hanbal (R)and what he endured because of the creed of Islam he refused to accept the creed of Islam to be changed and he suffered severe punishment and hunger for 30 years! If it was useless and he didn't truly believe in Allah would he have endured all that? Imam Abu Hanifa (R) he also suffered severe punishment because of his stance against corruption and also saved the people of Kuffa from the Khawarij, would he have endured all that if it was meaningless and there was nothing in return?

“It is only those who have knowledge among His slaves that fear Allaah”

[Faatir 35:28]

Did Allah beforehand already know the outcome of Ibrahim test or not?

You're a physically orientated person, what you see doesn't exist right? What do you say about atheists that become Muslims are they stupid?

What about Muslims that become atheist?

Is this an argument, do you reason before you post some things?

You say the Qur'an is a book of myths have you read it?

Yes the Quran is a book filled with ancient myth and fairytales and yes I've read the Quran.

From Adam story to Nuh story to Musa story to Dhul-Qarnayn and many more.

You challenge prophet Muhammad S.A.W but you know nothing about him.

Is there anything hidden about him?

Keep up your ignorance and it will cost you a big one. Tell me why everything in the universe fits into the Fibonacci sequence, and why does the Fibonacci numbers originate from one. If spirituality doesn't exist why are there people who claim to have contact with asthral entities and say tgey unlocked things like the third eye? Are the people who claim that they can do all this stupid?

The universe is not all perfect, the universe is as well chaotic.

Where are the people that contacted astral entities, can they provide evidences to their clam?

Will you believe me if I told you I contacted Santa Claus?

BTW how does this prove your God?

I don't know.

Good

His choice.

His choice or let's say his thoughts suddenly trigger him to start creating? Yes?

There was no time. Time started when the universe was created.

Nope, this is your assumption, there's no factual evidence the universe had a beginning.

We assume time started from the big bang we don't know what happened before the big bang, so time can be infinite and time can be dimensional, as long as there's living entity existing in a dimension there is time and space.

God cannot be outside scope of time as long as he exist, reason, think, plan. A thought and a plan has a measurement.

Allah existing for infinite and suddenly started creating, he must have been moved by something and choose that particular TIME or MOMENT for creation. Your God is subjected to a time and a prime mover.

That's how he decided it to be.

How did he measure the six days? With nothing?

How did he know that this is day one, the hours, minutes, seconds?

There was no time so it can't be measured, and when Allah wants something, Allah says "be" and it is. Stupid questions inspired by the devil.

Lol, a plan must have measurement. A plan comes with thoughts.

A plan and a thought has a beginning, the measurements start from there to the end. You choose particular time to effect your plans, so you can't tell me there was no time when Allah was planning.

tintingz:
Stick to the premise.

There's no entity outside scope of time except such entity is non-existence.

Did Allah beforehand already know the outcome of Ibrahim test or not?


What about Muslims that become atheist?

Is this an argument, do you reason before you post some things?

Yes the Quran is a book filled with ancient myth and fairytales and yes I've read the Quran.

From Adam story to Nuh story to Musa story to Dhul-Qarnayn and many more.

Is there anything hidden about him?

The universe is not all perfect, the universe is as well chaotic.

Where are the people that contacted astral entities, can they provide evidences to their clam?

Will you believe me if I told you I contacted Santa Claus?

BTW how does this prove your God?

Good


His choice or let's say he thoughts suddenly trigger him to start creating? Yes?

Nope, this is your assumption, there's no factual evidence the universe had a beginning.

We assume time started from the big bang we don't know what happened before the big bang, so time can be infinite and time can be dimensional, as long as there's living entity existing in a dimension there is time and space.

God cannot be outside scope of time as long as he exist, reason, think, plan. A thought and a plan has a measurement.

Allah existing for infinite and suddenly started creating, he must have been moved by something and choose that particular TIME or MOMENT for creation. Your God is subjected to a time and a prime mover.

How did he measure the six days? With nothing?

How did he know that this is day one, the hours, minutes, seconds?

Lol, a plan must have measurement. A plan comes with thoughts.

A plan and a thought has a beginning, the measurements start from there to the end. You choose particular time to effect your plans, so you can't tell me there was no time when Allah was planning.

Lol, these people can't argue without bringing the Devil into the picture.

Akin1212:


Lol, these people can't argue without bringing the Devil into the picture.

Lol, the devil they can't even prove.

tintingz:
Stick to the premise.

There's no entity outside scope of time except such entity is non-existence.

Then the universe wouldn't be possible because something outside of it caused it.

tintingz:

Did Allah beforehand already know the outcome of Ibrahim test or not?

Yes, he knew the choices Ibrahim A.S had all Ibrahim A.S had to was to choose whether to do it or not.

tintingz:


What about Muslims that become atheist?

Is this an argument, do you reason before you post some things?

They were Muslim Jaheel like you, this I am 1000% sure.

tintingz:


Yes the Quran is a book filled with ancient myth and fairytales and yes I've read the Quran.

From Adam story to Nuh story to Musa story to Dhul-Qarnayn and many more.

You're a lier if you say have read the entire Qur'an, who do you think you are fooling? You that doesn't even know basics.

tintingz:

Is there anything hidden about him?

His physical presence is hidden, you can only feel his presence spiritually. A human being is both a soul (spiritual being) and a body (biological machine) that's why both aspects need to be balanced. If one focus on the physical aspects alone he will become misguided also if he is focusing on the soul he should reflect on the physical aspects so that he will not be misguided. Islam is a religion of knowing Allah, because if you don't know Allah you can't worship Him.

tintingz:


The universe is not all perfect, the universe is as well chaotic.

of course only Allah is perfect.

tintingz:


Where are the people that contacted astral entities, can they provide evidences to their clam?

Are you telling me throughout your life you've never seen when a jinn possessed someone? Or majic or people doing rituals?

tintingz:

Will you believe me if I told you I contacted Santa Claus?

You're really have a serious problem, we have already argued about this santa issue before. Santa is a Christian myth (everbody knows that), he a Christian mythology only Muslims don't even give a damn about him, the year the santa myth was formed is known. All languages on the earth have a word for God, what about santa?

tintingz:


BTW how does this prove your God?

This is just to indicate to you an unseen realm, and that physical world is not absolute. And the spiritual realm influences the physical world, why are the U.S. politicians mainly freemasons, satanist and illuminati? Why are they behaving the way the Messengers of Allah described them to be during the last days of the earth?

tintingz:

Good

Answer my questions you're dodging them again as usual

tintingz:

His choice or let's say he thoughts suddenly trigger him to start creating? Yes?

Yes, so? Time eh?

tintingz:

Nope, this is your assumption, there's no factual evidence the universe had a beginning.

So that means the big bang is hoax? People far more intelligent than you formed that theory and even Allah confirmed it.

tintingz:

We assume time started from the big bang we don't know what happened before the big bang, so time can be infinite and time can be dimensional, as long as there's living entity existing in a dimension there is time and space.

Allah Himself is the infinite ( Al samad). So anything that existed before the creation of the Universe is at infnity. Time cannot be infinite because something caused it.

tintingz:


God cannot be outside scope of time as long as he exist, reason, think, plan. A thought and a plan has a measurement.

Time started after the creation of the Universe, so even if you want to measure Allah's time it will be at infinity. Because time exists only inside the universe.

tintingz:

Allah existing for infinite and suddenly started creating, he must have been moved by something and choose that particular TIME or MOMENT for creation. Your God is subjected to a time and a prime mover.

Then tell me what moved him, even if there's a time with Allah it will be at infinity and Allah is the only Being Who has a will while his creations are subjected to a destiny some have "choices" to make in that destiny, while others don't.

tintingz:

How did he measure the six days? With nothing?

How did he know that this is day one, the hours, minutes, seconds?

When he is the one that created time how wouldn't he know? It's a mechanism he had already thought of before implementing it, you're not even wise sef, maybe you make stupid choices that's why you are saying such things.
Stupid question.

tintingz:


Lol, a plan must have measurement. A plan comes with thoughts.

A plan and a thought has a beginning, the measurements start from there to the end. You choose particular time to effect your plans, so you can't tell me there was no time when Allah was planning.

Allah did his plans and choices at infinity, Allah is al-Samad.

najib632:
Then the universe wouldn't be possible because something outside of it caused it.

The universe is also said to be infinite with no outside.

The thing is we don't even know if the universe is infinite or finite, there's no evidence of any entity existing outside the universe.

Yes, he knew the choices Ibrahim A.S had all Ibrahim A.S had to was to choose whether to do it or not.
They were Muslim Jaheel like you, this I am 1000% sure.

Lol, God already know Ibrahim choice yet he test him to know if he will do it or not? Are you not confusing and contradicting yourself?

Allah knowing Ibrahim choices beforehand had been destined, his fate is already known. No matter his choices Allah has already know, testing him is meaningless.

You test someone to study them.

You're a lier if you say have read the entire Qur'an, who do you think you are fooling? You that doesn't even know basics.

I've read the Quran and the stories in it, it's available everywhere.

They are ancient myths and fairytales.

I can mention a myth just like Nuh story, I can mention several myths just like Adam clay creation story.

His physical presence is hidden, you can only feel his presence spiritually. A human being is both a soul (spiritual being) and a body (biological machine) that's why both aspects need to be balanced. If one focus on the physical aspects alone he will become misguided also if he is focusing on the soul he should reflect on the physical aspects so that he will not be misguided. Islam is a religion of knowing Allah, because if you don't know Allah you can't worship Him.

I was talking about Muhammad, is there anything hidden about him?

Save that your ridiculous belief for another day.

of course only Allah is perfect.

No he's not perfect, for example Allah test people, that's a characteristics of an imperfect entity.

Are you telling me throughout your life you've never seen when a jinn possessed someone? Or majic or people doing rituals?

No, I've only seen people with mental illness. Magic is trick, ritual is doing unreasonable things that yield to nothing.

You're really have a serious problem, we have already argued about this santa issue before. Santa is a Christian myth (everbody knows that), he a Christian mythology only Muslims don't even give a damn about him, the year the santa myth was formed is known. All languages on the earth have a word for God, what about santa?

Allah is a Santa for adult Muslims.

Santa is a belief system, I believe in Santa, don't be fallacious by saying everybody knows Santa doesn't exist, if he's known today he revealed himself today it doesn't negate his existence just like Allah revealed himself to Muhammad in a desert cave in an era.

I've seen Santa, you can't tell me I've not, it's my personal experience. Do you believe me? You disbelieve in Santa just like how the Jews and Christians disbelieve in your Allah.

This is just to indicate to you an unseen realm, and that physical world is not absolute. And the spiritual realm influences the physical world, why are the U.S. politicians mainly freemasons, satanist and illuminati? Why are they behaving the way the Messengers of Allah described them to be during the last days of the earth?

This is nonsensical. You believe in all this nonsense conspiracy theories.

Answer my questions you're dodging them again as usual

What question? You admit you don't know and i replied good, what am I dodging?

Yes, so? Time eh?

A thought has a beginning, are you saying there's a beginning for Allah?

Thought has measurement, your God is limited to that thought.

So that means the big bang is hoax? People far more intelligent than you formed that theory and even Allah confirmed it.

My goodness. Big Bang is not an hoax, it's a theory, there are some evidences that supports the theory.

The timeline between the big bang and today is over billion of years, how do you expect humans to just know what happened in the early stage of the universe?

Allah Himself is the infinite ( Al samad). So anything that existed before the creation of the Universe is at infnity. Time cannot be infinite because something caused it.

You're dwelling in assumptions and being delusional.

- The universe can be infinite.
- There's no evidence there's outside of universe
- There's no evidence of any entity outside the universe
- Time can be infinite because we don't know when time actually started, we just assume our time according to our observations.

Time started after the creation of the Universe, so even if you want to measure Allah's time it will be at infinity. Because time exists only inside the universe.

How did you know there is outside of the universe?

If we can measure Allah's time with infinite is that not time? You are simply establishing time as infinite which he's still subjected to, it does not make him beyond time.

Then tell me what moved him, even if there's a time with Allah it will be at infinity and Allah is the only Being Who has a will while his creations are subjected to a destiny some have "choices" to make in that destiny, while others don't.

Infinite is not beyond time, you're just stretching time to infinite.

If Allah can be in a dimension moving, planning and thinking then he's in a dimension where there's time and space.

Now if Allah before creation can be in a state alone not doing anything(like in a frozen state) for infinite period of time and suddenly he started moving, thinking, planning, then we should ask what moved or wake Allah?

When he is the one that created time how wouldn't he know? It's a mechanism he had already thought of before implementing it, you're not even wise sef, maybe you make stupid choices that's why you are saying such things.
Stupid question.

He created time from prior time.

There must be time where Allah is either our time or a higher time, so who created that higher time?

Allah did his plans and choices at infinity, Allah is al-Samad.

LMAO!! Best joke today.

How can a plan and choice be infinite? Can you plan without a beginning?

tintingz:
The universe is also said to be infinite with no outside.

The thing is we don't even know if the universe is infinite or finite, there's no evidence of any entity existing outside the universe.

Lol, God already know Ibrahim choice yet he test him to know if he will do it or not? Are you not confusing and contradicting yourself?

Allah knowing Ibrahim choices beforehand had been destined, his fate is already known. No matter his choices Allah has already know, testing him is meaningless.

You test someone to study them.

I've read the Quran and the stories in it, it's available everywhere.

They are ancient myths and fairytales.

I can mention a myth just like Nuh story, I can mention several myths just like Adam clay creation story.

I was talking about Muhammad, is there anything hidden about him?

Save that your ridiculous belief for another day.

No he's not perfect, for example Allah test people, that's a characteristics of an imperfect entity.

No, I've only seen people with mental illness. Magic is trick, ritual is doing unreasonable things that yield to nothing.

Allah is a Santa for adult Muslims.

Santa is a belief system, I believe in Santa, don't be fallacious by saying everybody knows Santa doesn't exist, if he's known today he revealed himself today it doesn't negate his existence just like Allah revealed himself to Muhammad in a desert cave in an era.

I've seen Santa, you can't tell me I've not, it's my personal experience. Do you believe me? You disbelieve in Santa just like how the Jews and Christians disbelieve in your Allah.

This is nonsensical. You believe in all this nonsense conspiracy theories.

What question? You admit you don't know and i replied good, what am I dodging?

A thought has a beginning, are you saying there's a beginning for Allah?

Thought has measurement, your God is limited to that thought.

My goodness. Big Bang is not an hoax, it's a theory, there are some evidences that supports the theory.

The timeline between the big bang and today is over billion of years, how do you expect humans to just know what happened in the early stage of the universe?

You're dwelling in assumptions and being delusional.

- The universe can be infinite.
- There's no evidence there's outside of universe
- There's no evidence of any entity outside the universe
- Time can be infinite because we don't know when time actually started, we just assume our time according to our observations.


How did you know there is outside of the universe?

If we can measure Allah's time with infinite is that not time? You are simply establishing time as infinite which he's still subjected to, it does not make him beyond time.

Infinite is not beyond time, you're just stretching time to infinite.

If Allah can be in a dimension moving, planning and thinking then he's in a dimension where there's time and space.

Now if Allah before creation can be in a state alone not doing anything(like in a frozen state) for infinite period of time and suddenly he started moving, thinking, planning, then we should ask what moved or wake Allah?

He created time from prior time.

There must be time where Allah is either our time or a higher time, so who created that higher time?

LMAO!! Best joke today.

How can a plan and choice be infinite? Can you plan without a beginning?

You're killing this guy. Small small abeg

Lwkmd, the dude said Allah did his plans and choices at infinity. That's the stupidest thing I've heard this year

I am sure this is gonna be eternal arguments because you to will not agree with anything he says regardless of what he says. So anyone who doesn't see to truth in anything or in others need to check himself.

Both of you have problems