TheArranger:
When it comes to religion, I think its safe to say that I've been on all sides of the spectrum. Started as a christian, gravitated towards agnosticism in secondary school, became an atheist after I left the university......
I think my point is, as someone who's argued from all these viewpoints, there's something I've realized - Its a pointless argument. Am not saying I didn't know this since. I actually did. But debate is a fun exercise, however when it comes to christians or religious/"god" apologists in general, there's just no point.
Firstly, religion and strong atheism require fundamental assumptions, that require you to change it yourself, and aren't going to be swayed by a rational argument. Christians for example (based on experience), have faith as their foundation. For strong (not weak) atheists, this foundation is empiricism, naturalism etc etc. basically the belief that only those things that can be observed with science exist.
Second, the two parties of this argument are arguing for the sole reason of proving themselves right, not always seeking the truth. Some of you know deep down this is true. I'm not saying there aren't people who've gained faith in God, or lost it. But in Nairaland, I've never witnessed such happen mid forum. People on this forum as I've noticed debate to change other people's minds, without carefully re-examining theirs (I don't know if that makes sense lol ).
The problem is, changing your opponent's mind when it comes to religion is nigh impossible because of the foundation. I've seen a lot of people here on Nairaland (mostly christians sorry to say) resort to insults rather than stay on topic. This is because these people see arguments opposing their worldview as a personal attack rather than what it really is - a debate! This is all because of the foundation.
Personally, I've just come to accept that religious debates are nothing more than philosophical exercises. However, if one is thinking he can change someone's worldview or belief mid forum, I'd like you to show me how. Maybe my understanding of debates is flawed
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TheArranger:

The problem is, changing your opponent's mind when it comes to religion is nigh impossible because of the foundation.

Ihedinobi3:
There is a sense in which I agree with you, TheArranger, and another in which I don't.


[4]Do not answer a fool according to his folly, Or you will also be like him.
[5]Answer a fool as his folly deserves, That he not be wise in his own eyes.
Proverbs 26:4-5 NASB

The above passage in Proverbs is what I mean.

As verse 4 teaches, it is not only a waste of time but a dangerous exercise to debate with "fools" (Psalm 53:1). The reason is that if your aim is to convert or convince or persuade a fool (as defined in that part of the Bible), then you would end up quite like him. Many who did not take the Bible's command seriously are fools now like the Bible warned.

But in verse 5, the ministry of apologetics is fully sanctioned by God. The business of apologetics is not at all to convert, convince or persuade the antichristian. It always is to protect other believers from their assault. That is done by demonstrating the lies they tell about the Bible and by demonstrating the hypocrisies in their arguments.

In other words, it is always a bad idea to argue with antichristians as though one might succeed at persuading them of the Truth of Jesus Christ. But it is always right and blessed to take the opportunity if one has the spiritual gift for it to demonstrate the lies and hypocrisies in their attacks on the Bible.

Originakalokalo:


I agree with this.

But care should be taken to ensure that one is not caught up in the process.

TheArranger:
When it comes to religion, I think its safe to say that I've been on all sides of the spectrum. Started as a christian, gravitated towards agnosticism in secondary school, became an atheist after I left the university......
I think my point is, as someone who's argued from all these viewpoints, there's something I've realized - Its a pointless argument. Am not saying I didn't know this since. I actually did. But debate is a fun exercise, however when it comes to christians or religious/"god" apologists in general, there's just no point.
Firstly, religion and strong atheism require fundamental assumptions, that require you to change it yourself, and aren't going to be swayed by a rational argument. Christians for example (based on experience), have faith as their foundation. For strong (not weak) atheists, this foundation is empiricism, naturalism etc etc. basically the belief that only those things that can be observed with science exist.
Second, the two parties of this argument are arguing for the sole reason of proving themselves right, not always seeking the truth. Some of you know deep down this is true. I'm not saying there aren't people who've gained faith in God, or lost it. But in Nairaland, I've never witnessed such happen mid forum. People on this forum as I've noticed debate to change other people's minds, without carefully re-examining theirs (I don't know if that makes sense lol ).
The problem is, changing your opponent's mind when it comes to religion is nigh impossible because of the foundation. I've seen a lot of people here on Nairaland (mostly christians sorry to say) resort to insults rather than stay on topic. This is because these people see arguments opposing their worldview as a personal attack rather than what it really is - a debate! This is all because of the foundation.
Personally, I've just come to accept that religious debates are nothing more than philosophical exercises. However, if one is thinking he can change someone's worldview or belief mid forum, I'd like you to show me how. Maybe my understanding of debates is flawed
Cc. Seun, OAM4J, LordReed, Martinez19, HellVictorinho, Michellekabod1, Vic2Ree, budaatum, MuttleyLaff, XxSabrinaxX, RuthlessLeader, Janettee, MhizAngel99, frank317, CAPSLOCKED, Dantedasz, finalboss, HardMirror, Mobilia, luvmijeje, PastorAIO, Verapax2001, Myth121, Ranchhoddas, HardMirror, MJBOLT, adoyi8, HopefulLandlord, Ihedinobi3, BronzeMajik, Niflheim, johnydon22, felixomor, JujuSugar, festwiz, Hermes019, HenryDion, HappyPagan, NPComplete, LuciferVirgin, CreepyBlackpool, frosbel2, hahn, TATIME, jesusjnr, Originakalokalo, OpenYourEyes1, Anas09, GeneralShepherd

Ihedinobi3:

[4]Do not answer a fool according to his folly, Or you will also be like him.

obinna58:
Your headline says it all so focusing on it, it's not an endless debate, there are lot's to learn esp for the open minded ones seeking to explore, I came here a Christian, now all I see in religion is lies,deceit, manipulation and destruction and truly that's what it is.
People deserve a better life which religion can't offer

CAPSLOCKED:



[color=#990000]I DON'T KNOW IF THE ENDLESS DEBATES DO ANYTHING FOR US (AS IRRELIGIOUS PEOPLE) SO I DON'T EVEN BOTHER, BECAUSE IT'S JUST THE SAME BACK AND FORTH RIDE WITH NOBODY TRYING TO LISTEN TO ANOTHER.

BUT ONE THING I DO KNOW IS THAT OUR LITTLE CHIP INS AND POSTS HERE AND THERE GOES A LONG WAY TO ERADICATE RELIGION AND LIBERATE INNOCENT PEOPLE FROM THE RELIGIOUS BURDEN THAT WAS PLACED ON THEM AS EARLY AS THE DAY THEY WERE BORN.

I STARTED ASKING QUESTIONS FROM A VERY YOUNG AGE OF 7 AND CONTINUED TO READ THE CHRISTIAN HOLY BOOK WHILE HOPPING FROM DENOMINATION TO DENOMINATION TRYING TO MAKE SENSE OF ALL THE NONSENSE MY PARENTS INTRODUCED ME TO. EVEN AS A YOUNG SEMINARY BOY I STRUGGLED STILL TO UNDERSTAND A FEW THINGS BUT NO MATTER WHAT I DID AND HOW I PRAYED, HOLY SPIRIT NEVER CAME THROUGH, NEITHER WAS MY LIFE ANY BETTER THAN THAT OF OTHER TEENAGERS WHO DIDN'T LOOK LIKE THEY PUT IN UP TO HALF MY EFFORTS.

Deicide:
This section isn't as effective as it use to be 2012-2016 arguments here were very hot

Mobilia:
Well, it has never been my desire to "debate" the topic of Christianity.
It really makes me uncomfortable to see the way some people in this section (on both sides) resort to name-calling and insults...because of disagreements.
I, as a human being, can never "change" someone's mind about embracing Christ as the only true God who desires a relationship with him/her.
I only "plant" a seed...and commit to praying.
The Holy Spirit waters....and changes a willing heart.

In a perfect world, I would love to see conversions.

However, that doesn't stop me from expressing my joy..my desires..my sometimes fears...my hopes..my journey in the Lord.
As I have the right to do since this is the "religion" section.
The Muslims surely have it very good on this forum.
Nobody bothers them at all....
They get to daily witness, discuss, and "debate" peacefully and "insult and question" free in their own section.

I know this is a far-fetched dream...BUT...if only we could have the same treatment..

Julivas:

They (the atheists) will see the light one day, just keep praying for them.
Check your mail biko.

LordReed:
I don't agree that it is a waste of time. For those of us open enough to receive new information it may be the linch pin to transformation. I appreciate all the people I debated with back when I was still a christian. They "forced" me to think and research beyond the things religion had taught me. And thank Zeus for the internet, the greatest repository of our collective knowledge, it is harder to hide information now that everything is being investigated, documented and uploaded.

Now that I am no longer in religion I feel so much freedom to point out some of the rather donderheaded thinking I ignored while I was still religious. If it sparks something off in someone then good and if it doesn't I am still entertained by how the religious must defend their positions by even more boneheaded arguments. No waste of time in my opinion.

Originakalokalo:


Yes.

It is a waste of time and I have stopped doing it a while ago.

I spread the good news. You accept, fine.

You reject, I dust my feet and move on to tell the next person.

....and so I continue.

That's all.

Mobilia:


Oh I definitely am committed to praying for them...and they know it.
I made a thread specifically for them...
Some will return....no doubt about it.

frank317:


U can't start a fire u don't want to quench. If u think u don't want ur believe to be questioned, stop spreading it as good news... It is not good news its is childish fairy tales.
Don't spread it if u will not answer questions that follows. People are not fools that u will tell some mythical fairy tales and expect them to believe just like that.
U are the Ines who start the argument by spreading ur childish tales

Originakalokalo:


The gospel of Jesus shall be preached...nothing shall stop the children of God from setting the captives of the devil free.

It's either you accept or reject it.

There is no argument about that.

frank317:


U can't start a fire u don't want to quench. If u think u don't want ur believe to be questioned, stop spreading it as good news... It is not good news its is childish fairy tales.
Don't spread it if u will not answer questions that follows. People are not fools that u will tell some mythical fairy tales and expect them to believe just like that.
U are the Ines who start the argument by spreading ur childish tales

frank317:


If u can't see that ur prayer is a total waste of time then something must b wrong with u.

How many atheists in this forum have ever testified that they turned to Christian based on these arguments.

But we have tons of Christians , even those who argue actively changing their mind and denouncing Christianity.

Yet u waste time praying without result. The lesson we try to teach u guys on this forum will soon be costing u money. Yes, u will have to start paying for it since block headedness is what ya all have insisted on.

Can't u just see the atheist achievement without prayers? Can't u see?

bloodofthelamb:


What a powerful fairytale! This fairytale has transformed lives and is still transforming life in alarming rate.

bloodofthelamb:


You have succeeded in converting religious zealot. This people don't know God though they might profess to know him. Religion is man doing something to be accepted by God. Labouring to please Him. This not the gospel. With this kind of gospel God and man will be separated. Man cannot truly experience and God, if he keep up with this attitude.

Resting in the truth that you are already accepted and pleasing to God through Christ Jesus will cause you to experience the divine presence of God in your life. All your doubt about God will be vanquish forever. Test and see!

frank317:


Leave that thing... The truth is that nobody knows any God, even u.
What we have is everybody claims they no God until their eyes clear.
How can u know a God that cannot talk, it does not even exist.

frank317:


Leave that thing... The truth is that nobody knows any God, even u.
What we have is everybody claims they no God until their eyes clear.
How can u know a God that cannot talk, it does not even exist.

bloodofthelamb:


I know God. His presence is always with me in Christ Jesus. How can someone who made mouth won't be able to speak? God speaks. He speaks to our heart and not to our ears. Listen with your heart and not with your ears.