Ihedinobi3:

See the first paragraph in that post you responded to.



It is not special pleading when there is a good reason for exception.

1. An uncaused cause is more logical than infinite regression and those are the only two options for explaining existence. Either something has always existed and is the cause of all existence or else everything exists as a result of a cause that is the result of another cause that is itself the result of yet another cause.

Infinite regression is obviously absurd. The chain inevitably terminates at an uncaused cause.

Thus, there is no special pleading going on in that issue.

2. I don't believe I said anything about angels having bodies of any type at all. Could you quote the exact statement and add the link?

3. In what way is it special pleading that human beings get an interim body (which is what the interim covering I spoke is: a covering for our spirits that functions, for all intents and purposes, like a body until the Resurrection)?

Is it not funny how you can demand that I "quote the exact statement and add the link" but when i ask you to show me where I made a supposed suggestion you just refer me to "See the first paragraph in that post you responded to". This is unacceptable if we are to continue conversing.

LordReed:


Is it not funny how you can demand that I "quote the exact statement and add the link" but when i ask you to show me where I made a supposed suggestion you just refer me to "See the first paragraph in that post you responded to". This is unacceptable if we are to continue conversing.

Do you doubt that you suggested that spirits operate independently of the body and that you misconstrued my answers twice as affirming your suggestion?

Ihedinobi3:

Do you doubt that you suggested that spirits operate independently of the body and that you misconstrued my answers twice as affirming your suggestion?

I made no such suggestion nor did I make an argument for such. Now proceed to quote and link where I did otherwise.

LordReed:


I made no such suggestion nor did I make an argument for such. Now proceed to quote and link where I did otherwise.

You did claim and insist that you only asked a question so that you would not make the wrong conclusion about what I said. But then you went on to say that what I said amounted to the same implication you thought you saw.

That can be construed as an argument that human spirits cannot operate without bodies.

If you disagree that it can, then, disregard what I have said about it so far. I really have no interest in arguing about this too.

Ihedinobi3:

You did claim and insist that you only asked a question so that you would not make the wrong conclusion about what I said. But then you went on to say that what I said amounted to the same implication you thought you saw.

That can be construed as an argument that human spirits cannot operate without bodies.

If you disagree that it can, then, disregard what I have said about it so far. I really have no interest in arguing about this too.

SMDH

LordReed:
This is for those who say humans have a soul and/or spirit independent of the body. One feature of this soul or spirit is that has all the personality and memories of the human being. Now if this is the case why is no one can remember anything from conception to about 2 years old? My own personal recollections start at about 3 years old, same with some other people I have asked. It would seem that an independent spirit or soul that has all our memories would allow us to remember every thing with clarity but this is not the case.

Unless you have a proper definition of Body, Soul and Spirit, you'll get things wrong.
Before the definition, let me give you a parallel:

The Brain is like a computer Hardware that powers the Body!
The Soul and Spirit are Specialized Softwares!

The Body is useless without the Soul!
The Spirit is useless without the Soul!

The Soul is your (internal identity) that interfaces between the physical hardware and the Spiritual hardware.

I believe you are hearing this for the first time. Pounder over it and I expect your questions if you have any!

shadeyinka:

Unless you have a proper definition of Body, Soul and Spirit, you'll get things wrong.
Before the definition, let me give you a parallel:

The Brain is like a computer Hardware that powers the Body!
The Soul and Spirit are Specialized Softwares!

The Body is useless without the Soul!
The Spirit is useless without the Soul!

The Soul is your (internal identity) that interfaces between the physical hardware and the Spiritual hardware.

I believe you are hearing this for the first time. Pounder over it and I expect your questions if you have any!

So how does the soul and spirit exist without the body after death then?

BTW you didn't even address the main question. How come you can't remember things from before you were 2 - 3 years old.

LordReed:


1. So how does the soul and spirit exist without the body after death then?

2. BTW you didn't even address the main question. How come you can't remember things from before you were 2 - 3 years old.

1. Just like the body is alive because of the soul, the spirit is alive because of the soul. The soul is the Link and interface between physically living and spiritually living
2. As long as you are in the physical (alive) your experiences are recorded in the brain. Your soul grows into adulthood by the reason of the experiences it had gathered with time.
That is why a baby cannot be afraid of a cobra: he isn't matured in his soul to understand what harm a cobra can do!

When you die, the record in your soul is what you have: and that should be a faithful record of everything you have ever experienced in life.

Even as adults, we don't record everything we have seen and experienced in our brain. I can't remember what I put on last week Saturday even though I'm sure I didn't go out naked!

shadeyinka:

1. Just like the body is alive because of the soul, the spirit is alive because of the soul. The soul is the Link and interface between physically living and spiritually living
2. As long as you are in the physical (alive) your experiences are recorded in the brain. Your soul grows into adulthood by the reason of the experiences it had gathered with time.
That is why a baby cannot be afraid of a cobra: he isn't matured in his soul to understand what harm a cobra can do!

When you die, the record in your soul is what you have: and that should be a faithful record of everything you have ever experienced in life.

Even as adults, we don't record everything we have seen and experienced in our brain. I can't remember what I put on last week Saturday even though I'm sure I didn't go out naked!

You are not addressing the questions. I asked how and why.

How are the soul and spirit if they are software, able to function after death.

Why can't you remember things from before you were 2 -3years old?

LordReed:


You are not addressing the questions. I asked how and why.

How are the soul and spirit if they are software, able to function after death.

Why can't you remember things from before you were 2 -3years old?

I think I answered your two questions as number 1and 2.

If you need clarity on 1.

You have two bodies, the first is your physical body and your soul is like the software that interfaces between your brain (CPU) and your body.

You also have a Spiritual body and your soul is still like the software that interfaces between your "Spiritual brain" (CPU) and your "spirit body"

WHY:
The designer made it so!

shadeyinka:

I think I answered your two questions as number 1and 2.

If you need clarity on 1.

You have two bodies, the first is your physical body and your soul is like the software that interfaces between your brain (CPU) and your body.

You also have a Spiritual body and your soul is still like the software that interfaces between your "Spiritual brain" (CPU) and your "spirit body"

WHY:
The designer made it so!

So where is this spiritual body?

So the designer made it so that you forget things?

No wonder the holy spirit likes helping people find their lost keys. LMAO!

LordReed:


1. So where is this spiritual body?

2. So the designer made it so that you forget things?

No wonder the holy spirit likes helping people find their lost keys. LMAO!

Do you want to chat or to insult?
1. The spirit body is where you are: it isn't localized (confined in space). Just like your soul, it isn't made up of matter hence not subject to time and space.
2. If you remember everything, would you ever heal?

shadeyinka:

Do you want to chat or to insult?
1. The spirit body is where you are: it isn't localized (confined in space). Just like your soul, it isn't made up of matter hence not subject to time and space.
2. If you remember everything, would you ever heal?

Are you now the holy spirit? And how is it an insult?

How can something not subject to time and space operate in time and space? How does it store memories if it is not matter? Why does brain damage affect memories?

What has forgetting got to do with healing? So you need to forget what you wore last week to heal?

LordReed:


Are you now the holy spirit? And how is it an insult?

1. How can something not subject to time and space operate in time and space?
2. How does it store memories if it is not matter?
3. Why does brain damage affect memories?

4. What has forgetting got to do with healing?
5. So you need to forget what you wore last week to heal?

If I insulted your parents, would you take it as a nice compliment?
1. Space and Time is a subset of the Spiritual. The physical realm is actually operating within the spirit world
2. As far as human limitation is concerned, memory can only be stored in the Physical but this in completely untrue.
3. The same reason why if the HDD of a computer is corrupted, it can affect some software programs and data.
4. What happens when a human being remember a harrowing trauma? What happens when a human being remembers every signpost he saw on his way to work? What happens when a human being remembers the faces of every stranger she met on the way to the market?

The designer made sure you remember only important things so that you don't get your limited memory clogged with irrelevant information!
5. Answer above

shadeyinka:

If I insulted your parents, would you take it as a nice compliment?
1. Space and Time is a subset of the Spiritual. The physical realm is actually operating within the spirit world
2. As far as human limitation is concerned, memory can only be stored in the Physical but this in completely untrue.
3. The same reason why if the HDD of a computer is corrupted, it can affect some software programs and data.
4. What happens when a human being remember a harrowing trauma? What happens when a human being remembers every signpost he saw on his way to work? What happens when a human being remembers the faces of every stranger she met on the way to the market?

The designer made sure you remember only important things so that you don't get your limited memory clogged with irrelevant information!
5. Answer above

If someone insults my parents I will either retaliate or ignore it however I did not make an insult I made a joke. It isn't my fault that your sense of humour is skewed by religious sentiments.

Information on hdds can moved from damaged portions to other undamaged parts. We do not see that happen in brain damage. Since you say memory is stored in elsewhere other than the brain then it shouldn't matter how much brain damage there is your memories should always be accessible since it is stored offsite like the way backups are done and restored in the eventuality of loss in the primary system.

How is the memory limited if it is not subject to space and time? If the spirit stores all the memories then how is space limitation an issue?

LordReed:


If someone insults my parents I will either retaliate or ignore it however I did not make an insult I made a joke. It isn't my fault that your sense of humour is skewed by religious sentiments.

Information on hdds can moved from damaged portions to other undamaged parts. We do not see that happen in brain damage. Since you say memory is stored in elsewhere other than the brain then it shouldn't matter how much brain damage there is your memories should always be accessible since it is stored offsite like the way backups are done and restored in the eventuality of loss in the primary system.

How is the memory limited if it is not subject to space and time? If the spirit stores all the memories then how is space limitation an issue?

Don't joke about what is important to me!

The brain is not as mundane as the computer CPU and HDD.

Don't worry, when you die, the inaccessible memory will be available to your spirit brain. For now, you are alive make do with your physical brain.

Your physical memory is limited. It is subject to space and time. Your Spiritual memory is unlimited, it isn't Subject to space and time

shadeyinka:

Don't joke about what is important to me!

The brain is not as mundane as the computer CPU and HDD.

Don't worry, when you die, the inaccessible memory will be available to your spirit brain. For now, you are alive make do with your physical brain.

Your physical memory is limited. It is subject to space and time. Your Spiritual memory is unlimited, it isn't Subject to space and time

You don't decide what I will joke about.

Yes it is probably more complex than a computer yet I can't remember what I ate for breakfast last week Tuesday.

Why is access to the so called memory storage limited to after death? How do you have this information if it is limited to after death?

Why can't I have access to this memory if I have an unlimited spirit right now?

LordReed:


You don't decide what I will joke about.

Yes it is probably more complex than a computer yet I can't remember what I ate for breakfast last week Tuesday.

1. Why is access to the so called memory storage limited to after death?
2.How do you have this information if it is limited to after death?

3. Why can't I have access to this memory if I have an unlimited spirit right now?

1. Your Physical bodies is very limited just as your brain.
2. and 3. You don't have unlimited access to your spirit. In fact, your spirit is "almost dead" insensitive. You were born Spiritually insensitive hence you rely mainly on your Physical brain.

You may need to wait till you die before access to all knowledge
and memory desiredd

LordReed:


You don't decide what I will joke about.

Yes it is probably more complex than a computer yet I can't remember what I ate for breakfast last week Tuesday.

1. Why is access to the so called memory storage limited to after death?
2.How do you have this information if it is limited to after death?

3. Why can't I have access to this memory if I have an unlimited spirit right now?

1. Your Physical bodies is very limited just as your brain.
2. and 3. You don't have unlimited access to your spirit. In fact, your spirit is "almost dead" insensitive. You were born Spiritually insensitive hence you rely mainly on your Physical brain.

You may need to wait till you die before access to all knowledge
and memory desired

shadeyinka:

1. Your Physical bodies is very limited just as your brain.
2. and 3. You don't have unlimited access to your spirit. In fact, your spirit is "almost dead" insensitive. You were born Spiritually insensitive hence you rely mainly on your Physical brain.

You may need to wait till you die before access to all knowledge
and memory desired

So how do you have access to this information if you are limited and not yet dead? How do you know these things? How do you know it is the case and it is true?

LordReed:


1. So how do you have access to this information if you are limited and not yet dead? How do you know these things? How do you know it is the case and it is true?

Experience of the Spiritual!

The experiences are subjective. I don't even have the power to duplicate my own Spiritual experiences.

shadeyinka:

Experience of the Spiritual!

The experiences are subjective. I don't even have the power to duplicate my own Spiritual experiences.

So you mean there is no way to objectively verify this information?

LordReed:


So you mean there is no way to objectively verify this information?

I am sorry No!

The rules are completely different. It's like trying to use a voltmeter to measure how happy a person is!

shadeyinka:

I am sorry No!

The rules are completely different. It's like trying to use a voltmeter to measure how happy a person is!

Ok so this is at the level of speculation. You have no proof so we either take your word for it or no.

Ah well once again the spirit and soul eludes observation. SMH.

LordReed:


Ok so this is at the level of speculation. You have no proof so we either take your word for it or no.

Ah well once again the spirit and soul eludes observation. SMH.

It's no speculation!
It's an experience:

A dream for instance is subjective but it's never a speculation.

You don't need to take my words for anything: you just need to have your own experience.

If you are blind, their is nothing I can do for you!

shadeyinka:

It's no speculation!
It's an experience:

A dream for instance is subjective but it's never a speculation.

You don't need to take my words for anything: you just need to have your own experience.

If you are blind, their is nothing I can do for you!

A dream is not objective reality. If you wish to believe delusional dreams well there is nothing I can do for you.

LordReed:


A dream is not objective reality. If you wish to believe delusional dreams well there is nothing I can do for you.

A dream is a subjective reality! I never said it is an objective experience.

But you can't say I didn't dream I became the president of Nigeria and you were my vice president. It's not in your powers to do that anyway!

The fact that it is subjective doesn't make it not a real experience!

shadeyinka:

A dream is a subjective reality! I never said it is an objective experience.

But you can't say I didn't dream I became the president of Nigeria and you were my vice president. It's not in your powers to do that anyway!

The fact that it is subjective doesn't make it not a real experience!

I didn't say it wasn't a real experience, I said it is not objective reality.

LordReed:


I didn't say it wasn't a real experience, I said it is not objective reality.

I told you that it is a subjective experience

shadeyinka:

I told you that it is a subjective experience

I know, it just doesn't translate to objective reality without any proof.

LordReed:


I know, it just doesn't translate to objective reality without any proof.

It has no direct physical proof.

shadeyinka:

It has no direct physical proof.

Ok then.