I guess you can say the apple doesn't fall too far from the tree. The fact that the mother insisted on staying at the risk of her daughter's marriage says a lot. Mother and daughter can now marry each other. They got what they wanted.

Nice that one refers to the mother as external factor.
So you are the external factor for your kids. Your kids are learning from you how to treat their kids in the future.
@Blank taking care of your mother when she is sick was the topic and not mother packing in permanently. I think there is a big difference.
@ Jenny and outstrip.
A woman should obey her husband and submit to him at all times. I apply this law in my home.
I believe that that is stipulated by my religion and my culture.
Does that mean if my husband says we should commit murder, that I will submit and do?
Even as I submit to my husband and follow his wish also sometimes when he is not right, it has to have limitations.
I cannot commit an offence before God or man because of my husband.
No man is infallible and God is the higher authority.
My first duty is to God and then to man. So where my husbands wish goes against the higher authority it becomes null and void.

Besides I think it would enrich the arguments here if you learn to argue logically or even illogically rather than resorting to insults and personal attack.
But not to worry.
Nelson Mandela said, when a man becomes rude to you, you keep being polite. That way you force him with time into being polite.
This normally works for humans. I hope it works for you.

@ Mutter, it started with taking care of her mum for a short while b4 it snowballed to what it is now.
Yes, i see my mum AND kids as external to myself and my husband.
At the end of the day, it is whatever my husband decides that goes even if i don't agree 100% with it.

As far as i am concerned, if the mum staying at home cannot be resolved then he should look for alternatives.
Get the mum a place nearby, get a room for her at the hospital, etc.
Like i said b4, i can never let ANYBODY scatter the peace in my house even for a day.

Blank your solution is very reasonable.
But in this case with the wifes attitude. The home is not being spoilt from withen and not from the outside.

i would not have married that kind of person in the first place.
i do not see why a couple have to ask permission for their mums to visit.
and i will not allow my mum to interfer in my marrage and i would expect the same from my husband.
a man and woman leave their parents house to go and start their own family.
it should stay that way.
if i had an interfering troublemaker mother in law i will not be happy about her coming.
but if i love my husband i will endure it.
if i do not love my husband , i will be only too happy to have an excuse to make a big issues out of it and if need be move out of his house

mutter:

@ Jenny and outstrip.
A woman should obey her husband and submit to him at all times. I apply this law in my home.

Of course any body outside the man and wife is an external factor

Listen the truth is, you do not even understand yourself at all, let me quote you in bold, you said a woman should obey her husband at all times, mutter do you even understand the word "ALL" ? "ALL" is the key word here, you are the one using "ALL" so what are you on about? If you understand the word "ALL" then you'd understand that it also refers to this case.

ALL decisions made by the man must be obeyed , so she should obey her husband when he refused her mum coming over thats what you mean, if there is a limit then why are you telling her to obey all his decions?

Are you a spam bot or what? you have made a terrible mistake in the past with all this advices of yours, plsss do not let others make same. what is wrong with the wife accepting all sanctioned decisions made by her hubby?

You've got to make sense to understand sense, you've got to understand you, before others can.

i have a question.
should a man also put his mother before his children?

if my husband kicks me out i will go with my children.
if i lose them in a custody battle then my children are losing a mother.

Jennykadry
you know the problem you have is that you scrutinize whatever I write., to the point of making it absurd or meaningless.
If in a topic about submission I write a woman should obey her husband, then you want me to go on and state exceptions?
Have you ever read a law book in your life? Just take a look at how laws are written.
Even when a law is stated
There are sometimes volumes of exceptions under it.
Even to interpret a law, various methods are applied from the ordinary meaning to the historical background origin of the law.
Sometimes two laws kind of contradict each other. Sometimes Judgments are written on the meaning of just one word.
What you are trying to do is unrealistic and cannot make meaning. Ask me when you think I am contradicting and I can explain.

Sorry but if you really studied, you could never come out with such an argument, because you would know how to interpret things in a wider context.
Analyse analytically and think abstractly.

Mabakar.
children belong to both parents not to you alone.
In a case were the marriage breaks, the only consideration is the children and their welfare.
In this case the poster has not drawn our attention to any problems his mother might have to justify the womans action in the slightest.
In this case the marriage is doomed for failure sooner or later, if the woman is not ready to compromise. What will be the next issue where she puts her foot down?
Mabaker I do agree with you on one thing, the asking should just be a formality. It should be taken for granted that the parents are welcome in the home.

mutter:

Mabakar.
children belong to both parents not to you alone.
In a case were the marriage breaks, the only consideration is the children and their welfare.
In this case the poster has not drawn our attention to any problems his mother might have to justify the womans action in the slightest.
In this case the marriage is doomed for failure sooner or later, if the woman is not ready to compromise. What will be the next issue where she puts her foot down?
Mabaker I do agree with you on one thing, the asking should just be a formality. It should be taken for granted that the parents are welcome in the home.

that dose not answer my question.
should a man put his children behind his mother?
in other words should he subject his children to "brokenhome" children. just because of his mother?

You know what mutter, you still haven't answered any question placed on here by posters

I remember vividly on the submission thread that people were against the 100% obeying of sanctioned decisions you preached but you still kept your ground on it, so why are you getting all excited here?

A law book? really? if what you preach here is what you've read in a law book then I tell you what, your law books are balderdash.Whether I studied or not isn't an issue, the issue here is this, a woman who claims to have achieved a lot in law and worked as a lawyer is encouraging women to live in physcial , emotional, psychological,name it abuse but would want a woman to throw a woman out of the house or a woman to pack out just because both parties had a disagreement.

You expect a woman to live in and with abuse and if possible die in it all in the name of financial assitance from her husband, yet you expect this same woman to be thrown out of her matrimonial home by her husband or pack out just because she does not agree with what her husband has put on the table for her which does not include physical beatings.

What sort of a mother are you, to your children?

Answer
Should the man risk his mothers death, because a senseless woman is ready to pack out with the children.
Did the Shepard not leave 99 in search of one.
A woman like that is she a role model for the kids.
If you can answer these questions you have the answer to your question.

mabaker:



that dose not answer my question.
should a man put his children behind his mother?
in other words should he subject his children to "brokenhome" children. just because of his mother?

Lol sorry honey, she won't answer your question

jenny your interpretations of me are unauthentic.
Please leave the other readers here to do that for themselves.
You are not qualified to do so for anyone other than yourself.

mutter:

Answer
Should the man risk his mothers death, because a senseless woman is ready to pack out with the children.
Did the Shepard not leave 99 in search of one.
A woman like that is she a role model for the kids.
If you can answer these questions you have the answer to your question.

Actually honey, she isnt ready to pack out of the house with her kids, you suggested she get thrown out

mutter:

jenny your interpretations of me are unauthentic.
Please leave the other readers here to do that for themselves.
You are not qualified to do so for anyone other than yourself.

hehehehehe caught in a tight corner aint you? I only quote you and make people see how dunce your replies and posts are before even going by it

seriously and honestly? Go get a life

She is the one packing out and not the man putting her out.
She has made the situation so unbearable that the man has not other option.

Do you think for instance in law a man can batter his wife so much that when she flees, he can claim deserted him?
No in this case the man deserted the marriage constructively.

Jenny I love tight corners, you can bounce on the wall and spring back
Sorry got to go to church with my dad

OFF you go ,maybe after todays service your brain would have been fixed and hopefully your pastor would pray out your battered life and give you one that is worthy of you to live in

atala vista baby

mutter:

Answer
Should the man risk his mothers death, because a senseless woman is ready to pack out with the children.
Did the Shepard not leave 99 in search of one.
A woman like that is she a role model for the kids.
If you can answer these questions you have the answer to your question.

The analogy of the Shepard should not be misunderstood. It is not like the Shepard left the 99 sheep in a place of danger or where they could be harmed when he went looking for the missing one. . .
Besides applying it in this context is a complete fail. No right thinking person will endorse the line that Mutter is towing here.

^^ lol

So sad I lost my mother-inlaw before my husband and I got married. She was a darling, a sweetheart, a mother. She took me as her own daughter even before getting married to her son. She taught me a lot of things when I was a teenager. All thnaks to her because she raised a very wonderful son.

Mutter if you respect the institution of marriage according to you then the woman packing out of her husband's house is not the solution. Its possible that the mother inlaw and the daughter in law has had fights in the past and the daughter inlaw doesnt want to go through all that again. I would advise the daughter inlaw to allow the mother inlaw to stay with them until she fully recovers from her surgery after which she should go back home. If she doesn't then her husband should tell the mother to go back instead of allowing her to create problems in their home.

No one who wants to spoil or break my home will be welcomed there at all. Even if the person is my mother, sister or brother. Anybody that disrespects my husband would be kicked out. Its as simple as that no two way about it.

still my question remain unanswered.
i just need a simple and clearcut answer like the one given to the original poster.

Mutter,its a pity u reason and speak the way u do.it is women like u that make young married women swear not to have their mum in law stay or visit  them.when u think that u are everything and your children should probably live for u.
u are the type of woman that will go to her childrens house to cause havoc for them.u wil tell sons to kick their wives at the least disagreement and  daughters to give their husbands ultimatum that will never be complied with hence they will need to walk out of their marriage.Who will welcome such mother in law?

Well,i didnt walk out of my marriage and i still did help my mum and she is proud of me till date.the fact is that bringing her into my house is not the only way i could help in this case.there are other means which i explored and everyone was happy and my marriage is still strong and healthy.I have had her visit a couple of times since den and we are all happy,including my hubby.the fact remains that they could work things out but in your mind the only solution is to end the marriage and  u kept repeating that,even saying the man is a fool if he fails to kick the wife out.
So much for someone who says a woman should stay irrespective of anyhting for the sake of the kids and financial assistance from the man.
obviously while the woman is enduring all sorts of things u will go to the man and tel him to kick her out  despite wat she goes thru because d woman aint worth anything.

mutter:

Mabakar.
.

In this case the poster has not drawn our attention to any problems his mother might have to justify the womans action in the slightest.
In this case the marriage is doomed for failure sooner or later, if the woman is not ready to compromise. What will be the next issue where she puts

in this case the poster has not faulted the wife in anyother way

mutter:

Answer
Should the man risk his mothers death, because a senseless woman is ready to pack out with the children.
Did the Shepard not leave 99 in search of one.
A woman like that is she a role model for the kids.
If you can answer these questions you have the answer to your question.

was there talk of the woman moving out?
you suggested that he kicks her out and i wanted to know from you"what about the children" do they stay or do they go.

the Shepard brought the lost sheep back to the others as far as i know.


you write the man should kick the wife out .you have not answered the question "what becomes of the children"?

if he is a man he can bring in his mother without asking his wife and see what happens.
why kick the wife out?

mother in law problems are one of the most commen problems in marrage.
if every man kicks out his wife for his mother we will have no matrimonial homes soon.



Am i married to my son?

And when he kicks his wife out, him and his mother shall live happily ever after.

Can't believe some insensitive IDIOT will say to kick the wife out. You don't their history; maybe the wife and mother have had disagreements in the past, and the wife doesn't want to stir up the situation. I would advise the couple to talk about the situation to find a way to help the mother-in-law without causing disturbance in the home.

A GREAT mother raises her children to be independent of her and to have their own lives and loved ones, and not just to be emotional blackmail in the future. I love my mother very much, and she loves me as well. But even in her dying times, my mother would never want to be burden to me or my future family.

And seriously, whoever that mutter is, really needs some spiritual help to cast out some demons, because I've read some her responses and advice on this forum, and they're just plain PITIFUL! I actually feel bad for her, because it seems like classic Battered Woman Syndrome.

MAKABER
when the woman said over her dead body, did she put the children into consideration.
Assuming for instance God heard this prayer and decided to take her life?
Such things have been known to happen.
Who here is being inconsiderate about the children.

Why should a home be broken because a sick woman came for an operation and to recover?
You said you found a reasonable solution for your mother and all are happy now, she visited later.
All I see is a daughter that abandoned her mother in her time of need.
You are a let down. May God forgive you.
YOU ABANDONED YOUR MUM, coat it how you like.
If the woman had problems with the mother in law it would be different if she put it the right way and the husband could have had the chance to be diplomatic and appeal to his mother.
Why should a young woman be discouraged from getting married.
My solutions are realistic and any well brought up girl knows what is expected of her.

over my dead body is a statement one makes just like that.
i wounder what the mil must have done for the wife to be so angry.
you pass a judgment without knowing the history of the couple.

what if the man takes your advise because he read it here?
could you want that to be on your hands?
will you answer to that to the lord your God (since you have quoted the bible )

If over my dead body is a statement one makes just like that.
then darling you an take it or leave is also a statement one makes just like that.
Would you like the poster to take your advise at the risk of loosing his mother because he took your advise?
Once a life is lost, there is no making amends, no bringing back the dead.
If the wife does not see reason and leaves.
You can be certain that others will get involved like pastor, family and friends.
The situation can be amended and reversed.
This is a sick woman, no time for lengthy discussions, immediate action needs to be taken.
How do you think this woman will feel being ill and rejected from her son?
Do you know that the mental state of mind is very important when one is sick.
That love and attention sometimes the best medicine is?
I hope he takes my advise and treats his mother first, she is the one sheep in danger.
The wife is only being inconvenienced.

Would you like the poster to take your advise at the risk of loosing his mother because he took your advise?

i do not recall giving any advise. i asked you a question and there is a difference between a question and an advise

mabaker:

i would not have married that kind of person in the first place.
i do not see why a couple have to ask permission for their mums to visit.
and i will not allow my mum to interfer in my marrage and i would expect the same from my husband.
a man and woman leave their parents house to go and start their own family.
it should stay that way.
if i had an interfering troublemaker mother in law i will not be happy about her coming.
but if i love my husband i will endure it.
if i do not love my husband , i will be only too happy to have an excuse to make a big issues out of it and if need be move out of his house

this is what i had to say about the topic my advise.



and please don't call me darling that is pretty rude. i do not recall being rude to you .

If the wife does not see reason and leaves.
You can be certain that others will get involved like pastor, family and friends.
The situation can be amended and reversed

till now it was only you that suggested throwing the wife out.
and now you are talking about bringing her back after making it clear she is not wife material

It beats me when the people that are against a mother-in-law coming into the son's house especially when she is ill and needed medical attention are potential mother-in-laws. If I understand Outstrip & Co, you would not have any problem if in future your daughter-in-law refuse you staying with them (in your son's house) for the period you may need medical care.

@Mutter, women like you are uncommon. As u already know, I would not be the first to appreciate your wisdom. Often times, our opinion on issues are based on our experiences; in this case, our family background.

@Mutter,
u are really a sick woman.
why not give me a direct answer and tell me i should have walked away cos no man is worth it.
again remenber as women we all depend on our husbands financilally as it were according to ur theories,now if that theory holds wen i walk out of my marriage how will i get money to take care of her medical bills .i will have to use my buttom power to raise money to take care of my mum.
do u think my mum would have loved that?
u need to go and sort urself out and stop saying rubbish.over my dead body is satement and people do make it,ok.i am sure u must have heard it before or are u hearing it for the first time here.
wen ur kids marry i hope u go around advising them to kick their spouses out for u.Selfishness

Funseeker,
most people here are not aginst a sick mum in law coming,but what we fault is mutter saying the man should kick out his wife.
we are all saying it could be worked out and thast just it.
i dont think this is a reason for the husband to go on a kicking spree simple and short.
Issues will always arise in marriage and can always be resolved,kicking the spouse out is never the 1st thing to do,simple.

Funseeka:

It beats me when the people that are against a mother-in-law coming into the son's house especially when she is ill and needed medical attention are potential mother-in-laws. If I understand Outstrip & Co, you would not have any problem if in future your daughter-in-law refuse you staying with them (in your son's house) for the period you may need medical care.

i can only speak for myself prevention is better than cure.
personally i would try to be a mother in law and not a monster in law.
i would not be happy if my dil  dose not let me in.
but i will also feel bad if i force my way in and ruin their marrage

lovelynk
I have given you all the answers you need and more.
Again please stop quoting me out of context.
Why don`t you open a thread  if you need advise, perhaps I might feel inclined to give my advise.
I have taken you to the stream but you need to drink yourself.

I became a mother in law six years ago and I can tell you it is no easy task especially when the woman involved is difficult to handle.
MY DIL always comes to me for advise. I assured her from the first day that she will always be a part of my family no matter what comes between her and my son.
now she does make her mistakes but with love and patience I try to direct her on the right part.
In such relationships it is important not to bear grudges and always be objective. I