Empiree:
show us evidence that injil given to Jesus was documented by him?. His injil was distorted after him. It is very important that we know details of Bible writers who claim to know Jesus. How come they had contradicted messages if truly they had the same injil given to Jesus?

There is no any Injil given to Jesus, that's Islamic fallacy. The first 4 books of the new testaments, which Muslims call 'the Injil' is a documented record of the time and life of Jesus Christ as written by eye witnesses. In this modern era, it can be called a biography of the life and time of Jesus Christ: his virgin birth, his adulthood ministry, his death and resurrection. And the Injil is clear enough, except Muslims who will be searching for issues in the Bible to attack Christianity, a practice which Mohammed started.

Muslims made a claim that Allah gave Mohammed the Quran but information from various hadith claimed otherwise. Mohammed never wrote the Quran and he never audited the contents (because he can't even read) to verify if what he dictated, to his secretaries, were correctly written down. That's why I gave an example of out of the secretaries, Abdullah ibn saad ibn abi sarh, who was manipulating the writings of the Quran to suit his own rhythm while Mohammed concurred. I gave you references, from Islamic sources, which you called 'fake news'.

You are very well aware that Mohammed didn't ask his sahabas to compile the Quran as a book; it was a government project conceived by Omar ibn kathab after learning that most reciters of the Quran had died in the battle of yamama and to avoid further loss of the information in the Quran, the idea of making it as a single document was conceived.

In summary, after the Quran was finally compiled by Uthman ibn Affan, he ordered the burning of other manuscripts that he doesn't agree with. Some other pieces of the Quran were burnt by Uthman and cannot be found in the present-day Quran. I don't even want to bring up the issue of some part of the Quran that was eaten by a he-goat (sunnah ibn majjah 1944). So if your Quran is so much bastardized and you have to fall back to the hadith (written over 230 years after the death of Mohammed by an Uzbekistani man) to clear things up the inconsistencies in the Quran, it is very unfortunate that hypocrite Muslims will accuse the Judeo-christian scriptures of 'distortions'.

Asalama lekum!

Empiree:
Let me save myself precious time from copying this. Here is reference that counters your post on Abdallah Ibn Sa`d Ibn Abi Sarh.

And so? Was it written by 'the Jews and the Christians' (your usual punching bag) or Muslim scholars and historians?

Empiree:
I'm not really interested in your atotonu. The only thing I'm responding to is this.

Told you and true2god that Islam technically doesn't recognize what you called Bible or go Gospel. These terms were made by men and women by men. They wrote stories about Jesus. That's what chronological Gospels mean. They are Gospels according Mathew Mark Luke and John. Not Gospel according to Jesus.

So this alone dismissed your claim that Quran recognizes your Bible. This is nonsense. Now here is a verse of Qur'an which points to distortions, changes, discrepancies in your Bible or Gospels or whatever your want to call it.



Sura Maida ayah 13


So for their breaking of the covenant We cursed them and made their hearts hard. They distort words from their [proper] usages and have forgotten a portion of that of which they were reminded. And you will still observe deceit among them, except a few of them. But pardon them and overlook [their misdeeds]. Indeed, Allah loves the doers of good.




Maida 14


And from those who say, "We are Christians" We took their covenant; but they forgot a portion of that of which they were reminded. So We caused among them animosity and hatred until the Day of Resurrection. And Allah is going to inform them about what they used to do.



Verse 13 clearly says Jews distorted thier Book. Verse 14 clearly says christians have distorted thier Book.

What about the Torah which were named after events (Genesis, Exodus, Deuteronomy, Numbers), Persons (Joshua) and Archiving (Chronicles)? Are they also fake? Was Allah unaware of the naming of each book for sake of clarity? How about the Quran that some surah are named after camel, cow, ant, Mary, etc. It is very ridiculous when Muslims have problems in the naming of the books in the Bible while the surah is named after animals (camel, cow, ant, etc). Who did the naming? Allah, Mohammed or the Caliph? Please stop making fun of yourself.

Islam is never a standard to validate Christianity while the opposite it true because your Allah asked you to 'consult the people of the book'. Allah never asked the people of the book to get guidance from the Muslims. Muslims seem to always try to correct Allah's mistakes.

And see desperation, you have to do a google search for the word 'distortions' to key it into your obviously biased argument. The surah Maida, ridiculously meaning ' table', is devoted to Jewish and Christian hatred (quran 5:51) and was written in Medina. How can I take the opinion of Mohammed serious, in surah Maida, as the surah was written when there was a serious hostility between the Muslims and the 'people of the book' in Medina? How can you expect an enemy to give a fair assessment of you? This is just commonsense. In one place Mohammed asked Muslims to consult the people of the book for guidance (in Mecca when he needed their support) and in another place he accused them of distorting the meanings (not the letters) when he no longer needed their support and was now very powerful (in Medina).

And on the same surah, Allah asked the Jews and the Christians to stand on the Torah and the Injil:

Yusuf Ali (Quran 5:68) : Say: "O People of the Book! ye have no ground to stand upon unless ye stand fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that has come to you from your Lord." It is the revelation that cometh to thee from thy Lord, that increaseth in most of them their obstinate rebellion and blasphemy. But sorrow thou not over (these) people without Faith.

Allah, in the same surah, asked the Jews and the Christians to stand on the Torah and the Injil, is that not confusion?

See below for further reading of your claim in your last paragraph:

https://veritasdomain./2012/07/23/are-there-verses-in-the-quran-that-shows-the-bibles-corruption-part-3-surah-513/

Asalama lekum!

Empiree:
I'm not really interested in your atotonu. The only thing I'm responding to is this.

Told you and true2god that Islam technically doesn't recognize what you called Bible or go Gospel. These terms were made by men and women by men. They wrote stories about Jesus. That's what chronological Gospels mean. They are Gospels according Mathew Mark Luke and John. Not Gospel according to Jesus.

So this alone dismissed your claim that Quran recognizes your Bible. This is nonsense. Now here is a verse of Qur'an which points to distortions, changes, discrepancies in your Bible or Gospels or whatever your want to call it.

Sura Maida ayah 13

So for their breaking of the covenant We cursed them and made their hearts hard. They distort words from their [proper] usages and have forgotten a portion of that of which they were reminded. And you will still observe deceit among them, except a few of them. But pardon them and overlook [their misdeeds]. Indeed, Allah loves the doers of goo

Maida 14

And from those who say, "We are Christians" We took their covenant; but they forgot a portion of that of which they were reminded. So We caused among them animosity and hatred until the Day of Resurrection. And Allah is going to inform them about what they used to do.

Verse 13 clearly says Jews distorted thier Book. Verse 14 clearly says christians have distorted thier Book.

Empiree, please answer this:
You quoted the above. But the Koran also says:
Yusuf Ali (Quran 5:68) : Say: "O People of the Book! ye have no ground to stand upon unless ye stand fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that has come to you from your Lord." It is the revelation that cometh to thee from thy Lord, that increaseth in most of them their obstinate rebellion and blasphemy. But sorrow thou not over (these) people without Faith.

So, which one is true?

Again, did Mohamed ever say that the Jewish and Christian Holy Books have been corrupted?

NOTE: "Distort in their usage" and "forgot" do not mean the same as 'distorted'.

sagenaija:


Empiree, please answer this:
You quoted the above. But the Koran also says:
Yusuf Ali (Quran 5:68) : Say: "O People of the Book! ye have no ground to stand upon unless ye stand fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that has come to you from your Lord." It is the revelation that cometh to thee from thy Lord, that increaseth in most of them their obstinate rebellion and blasphemy. But sorrow thou not over (these) people without Faith.

So, which one is true?

Again, did Mohamed ever say that the Jewish and Christian Holy Books have been corrupted?

NOTE: "Distort in their usage" and "forgot" do not mean the same as 'distorted'.

I don't know who is more confused? Mohammed, Allah or ordinary Muslims and it seems the communication between Allah and Mohammed is not always clear.

As you rightly pointed out, there is a difference between 'distorting the words', which in modern-day context could mean 'twisting the word'. We might read the same book but have a different view of the passage, and one might even forget some of what he read, and this is the issue Mohammed had with the Jews and the Christians. However in the verses that followed, he still asked the Jews and the Christians to stand firm of the 'Torah and the Injil'.

Muslims will however chose any ayah of the Quran that suits them and pretend as if no other ayah nullify it. This is a serious Islamic dilemma, chose whatever favours you in the hadith, Quran and the seerah. This is intellectual dishonesty on the part of Muslims and their scholars which exposes the falsehood and inconsistencies in Islam.

i didn't catch up your sentences very well

eduora:
i didn't catch up your sentences very well

In what sense?

sagenaija:


Empir.ee, please answer this:
You quoted the above. But the Koran also says:
Yusuf Ali (Quran 5:68) : Say: "O People of the Book! ye have no ground to stand upon unless ye stand fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that has come to you from your Lord." It is the revelation that cometh to thee from thy Lord, that increaseth in most of them their obstinate rebellion and blasphemy. But sorrow thou not over (these) people without Faith.

So, which one is true?

Again, did Mohamed ever say that the Jewish and Christian Holy Books have been corrupted?

NOTE: "Distort in their usage" and "forgot" do not mean the same as 'distorted'.

please don't be offended by this statement.

I don't know whether you are zombie sometimes or not. Even with this verse you quoted, it is still telling you to hold fast to your book. The book referring to in this Ayah is still injil of Jesus and Torah of Moses in their authentic forms. You can twist all you want. After all, even today's Bible you don't follow it's laws. Jews also don't follow their laws. Only Muslims try as much as possible to follow Quranic laws. How can you not see that this Bible you have today is blatantly in gross error, first by claiming Jesus is God. This alone is a red flag. I also gave you examples from Jewish book of double standards but you guys snubbed. I showed you from Jewish book where they consider gentiles (non-jews) less than humans. That Jews may charge gentiles interest but they can not charge fellow Jews interest. And you are telling me this is a book from God?. In the same book they said Moses wrote Torah but at the same time Moses is talking about how he buried himself. Yet you still considered this perfect book of God?. So these are pointing to what Qur'an says in the last sura I quoted you.

Do me a big favor, how about you do some research before you reply?. Because your replies reveals to me that you don't think critically or did some academic research before you reply. That's just sad. Don't just reply because your want to win argument.

I also showed you like three times already conflicting accounts in the Bible. I showed you how Luke claimed to gather his Gospel from eyewitnesses which means he wrote his Gospel from informations he gathered from different people which also confirms what Qur'an says about distortions in your book. How could you still consider this book from God when the author himself confessed his writings were collected from people?. Be sensible man. It will be pointless to keep giving you references from Quran if you can not put on your thinking cap.

Few weeks ago I showed you conflicting crucifixion accounts. Yet you turned the other side. If you continue like this I see no reason to go further. Why is it difficult for you to accept the fact that Torah and Gospel you have today are not the same books revealed to their respective prophets?.

Abeg, think please.

Empiree:
please don't be offended by this statement.

I don't know whether you are zombie sometimes or not. Even with this verse you quoted, it is still telling you to hold fast to your book.

Do me a big favor, how about you do some research before you reply?. Because your replies reveals to me that you don't think critically or did some academic research before you reply. That's just sad. Don't just reply because your want to win argument.

It will be pointless to keep giving you references from Quran if you can not put on your thinking cap.

Why is it difficult for you to accept the fact that Torah and Gospel you have today are not the same books revealed to their respective prophets?.

Abeg, think please.

Empiree, if geniuses like you will make things CLEAR for "zombies"like us then maybe things will be easier for us to grasp.

You, the genius, agree that the Bible existed in the authentic form.

But Genius, WHEN the Bible became "distorted" has been difficult for you to CLEARLY tell us. WHY no mention by Mohamed whom you are supposed to emulate ever questioning the existing Bible can be found BUT you modern day Moslems who claim to follow him and are told to believe in him now oppose his stance amazes us.

For a book that was WIDELY CIRCULATED, why no single copy of the "authentic" Bible survived has not also been incontrovertibly communicated to us by you.

Genius, is it possible for you to give clarification to the above two issues in a CLEAR MANNER that will make me perhaps begin to have a rethink.

Until then the RED FLAG I see is the KORAN having a double position AND CONTRADICTIONS on virtually EVERYTHING.

The Koran will promise you what to do to enter Paradise and then equally tell you it is Allah that will determine whether you enter paradise not whether you have fulfilled all that is required of you. The Koran will tell you a Moslem is on the right way, being "rightly guided", yet turn around to tell you that even when you are a FOOT from paradise Allah may still FEEL otherwise and have you turned back and thrown into hell. These are the RED FLAGS I see.

Allah in the Koran does not know where the sun sets. He doesn't know that it is the earth that revolves round the sun. Allah does not know that Mary the mother of Jesus is NOT closely related to Moses and Aaron. He does not know that they ARE NOT EVEN from the same tribe! These are RED FLAGS!

Allah has NO familial relationship with his creatures like JEHOVAH has. Not even with man that he asked angels to bow down to. No Moslem knows what Allah is since he is neither human nor a spirit. But Allah has TWO RIGHT HANDS! These are RED FLAGS to me.

Allah NEVER advocates LOVE between his creatures nor does he claim to have any love for them. This is a RED FLAG for me.

So, please do me a big favour, can you in a SIMPLE MANNER that only geniuses like you can do CLARIFY the above for me? You may even prefer to do them one per post so that someone like me who is not a genius like you can easily understand it.

No running away please!

Empiree:
please don't be offended by this statement.

I don't know whether you are zombie sometimes or not.

Do me a big favor, how about you do some research before you reply?. Because your replies reveals to me that you don't think critically or did some academic research before you reply. That's just sad. Don't just reply because your want to win argument.

It will be pointless to keep giving you references from Quran if you can not put on your thinking cap.

Abeg, think please.

See more RED FLAGS!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdJA53d1Nzg

"Muhammad did it. Therefore it is not sinful."

Spreading Islam by force: https://muflihun.com/muslim/1/33; See also, entire Book of Jihad in Sahih Bukhari and Muslim.

Killing apostates: Sunan Abu Dawud 4337- https://sunnah.com/abudawud/40; Bukhari 6922- https://sunnah.com/bukhari/88

Ambushed villages, killing people shouting "Allahu Akbar": Bukhari 2943/2945- https://sunnah.com/bukhari/56; Ibn Ishaq, p. 511.

Assassinating people who insulted him: Sunan Abu Dawud 4349 and 4348- https://sunnah.com/abudawud/40; See also: Sahih Bukhari 2510, 3031/3032, 4037

Aisha taken from a swing with her dolls to Muhammad's house for intercourse: https://muflihun.com/muslim/8/331; https://muflihun.com/abudawood/43/4915

Muhammad and the wife of his adopted son: The History of Al-Tabari Volume 8, pp. 2-3; Surah 33:37

Sex with all of his wives with a single bath: Sunan Abu Dawud 218- https://muflihun.com/abudawood/1/218

Sex with slavegirl: https://muflihun.com/nasai/36/3411; History of al-Tabari, Volume 39, page 194

Struck Aisha in the chest and caused her pain: http://hadithcollection.com/sahihmuslim/132-Sahih%20Muslim%20Book%2004.%20Prayer/9023-sahih-muslim-book-004-hadith-number-2127.html

Women are intellectually deficient: https://muflihun.com/muslim/1/142; https://sunnah.com/bukhari/52/22

Commanding women to breastfeed men: "How can I suckle him when he is a grown up man?" Sahih Mulsim 1453 a- https://sunnah.com/muslim/17

Buying, owning and selling of black slaves: https://muflihun.com/nasai/44/4625; https://sunnah.com/bukhari/95/17

Cutting off a woman's hand for stealing: https://sunnah.com/bukhari/52/12

Cut off hands and feet, burning eyes with hot nails: https://sunnah.com/bukhari/76/9

Wrongly commanding Ali to behead someone: https://sunnah.com/muslim/50/68

sagenaija:


Emp.iree, if geniuses like you will make things CLEAR for "zombies"like us then maybe things will be easier for us to grasp.

You, the genius, agree that the Bible existed in the authentic form.

But Genius, WHEN the Bible became "distorted" has been difficult for you to CLEARLY tell us. WHY no mention by Mohamed whom you are supposed to emulate ever questioning the existing Bible can be found BUT you modern day Moslems who claim to follow him and are told to believe in him now oppose his stance amazes us.

For a book that was WIDELY CIRCULATED, why no single copy of the "authentic" Bible survived has not also been incontrovertibly communicated to us by you.

Genius, is it possible for you to give clarification to the above two issues in a CLEAR MANNER that will make me perhaps begin to have a rethink.

Until then the RED FLAG I see is the KORAN having a double position AND CONTRADICTIONS on virtually EVERYTHING.

The Koran will promise you what to do to enter Paradise and then equally tell you it is Allah that will determine whether you enter paradise not whether you have fulfilled all that is required of you. The Koran will tell you a Moslem is on the right way, being "rightly guided", yet turn around to tell you that even when you are a FOOT from paradise Allah may still FEEL otherwise and have you turned back and thrown into hell. These are the RED FLAGS I see.

Allah in the Koran does not know where the sun sets. He doesn't know that it is the earth that revolves round the sun. Allah does not know that Mary the mother of Jesus is NOT closely related to Moses and Aaron. He does not know that they ARE NOT EVEN from the same tribe! These are RED FLAGS!

Allah has NO familial relationship with his creatures like JEHOVAH has. Not even with man that he asked angels to bow down to. No Moslem knows what Allah is since he is neither human nor a spirit. But Allah has TWO RIGHT HANDS! These are RED FLAGS to me.

Allah NEVER advocates LOVE between his creatures nor does he claim to have any love for them. This is a RED FLAG for me.

So, please do me a big favour, can you in a SIMPLE MANNER that only geniuses like you can do CLARIFY the above for me? You may even prefer to do them one per post so that someone like me who is not a genius like you can easily understand it.

No running away please!

explaining color to color blind is painstaking efforts. What is the use of citing Islamic sources when you don't even understand anything I have been saying even with references from your so called holy book?

Empiree:
explaining color to color blind is painstaking efforts. What is the use of citing Islamic sources when you don't even understand anything I have been saying even with references from your so called holy book?

So, What have you said here?
Is there any reference here to any of what I put up there?
Can you explain in simple language for us who are not "geniuses" to understand?

Islamic sources speak from both sides of the mouth. Prove me wrong.

Empiree:
explaining color to color blind is painstaking efforts. What is the use of citing Islamic sources when you don't even understand anything I have been saying even with references from your so called holy book?

Why Some "Muslims" Go To Hell: Dawah's Dilemma

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxSDqGEUnU4

Empiree:
please don't be offended by this statement.

I don't know whether you are zombie sometimes or not. Even with this verse you quoted, it is still telling you to hold fast to your book. The book referring to in this Ayah is still injil of Jesus and Torah of Moses in their authentic forms. You can twist all you want. After all, even today's Bible you don't follow it's laws. Jews also don't follow their laws. Only Muslims try as much as possible to follow Quranic laws. How can you not see that this Bible you have today is blatantly in gross error, first by claiming Jesus is God. This alone is a red flag. I also gave you examples from Jewish book of double standards but you guys snubbed. I showed you from Jewish book where they consider gentiles (non-jews) less than humans. That Jews may charge gentiles interest but they can not charge fellow Jews interest. And you are telling me this is a book from God?. In the same book they said Moses wrote Torah but at the same time Moses is talking about how he buried himself. Yet you still considered this perfect book of God?. So these are pointing to what Qur'an says in the last sura I quoted you.

Do me a big favor, how about you do some research before you reply?. Because your replies reveals to me that you don't think critically or did some academic research before you reply. That's just sad. Don't just reply because your want to win argument.

I also showed you like three times already conflicting accounts in the Bible. I showed you how Luke claimed to gather his Gospel from eyewitnesses which means he wrote his Gospel from informations he gathered from different people which also confirms what Qur'an says about distortions in your book. How could you still consider this book from God when the author himself confessed his writings were collected from people?. Be sensible man. It will be pointless to keep giving you references from Quran if you can not put on your thinking cap.

Few weeks ago I showed you conflicting crucifixion accounts. Yet you turned the other side. If you continue like this I see no reason to go further. Why is it difficult for you to accept the fact that Torah and Gospel you have today are not the same books revealed to their respective prophets?.

Abeg, think please.

It is very magical that Muslims will claim that the Bible had been corrupted but do not have a single copy of the incorruptible one. Where is the 'authentic' Torah and the injil that Zakir Naik, and millions of his fellow clowns, have been talking about? They don't have it because they have to manufacture lies to discredit the Bible. It is even worrisome for a religion like Islam, whose founder was tutored by a gnostic Christian, waraqa ibn naufal, to challenge the Bible? It is even more worrisome that it was even this same Christian that told him that he is a prophet, not even Allah or jibril. Islam is a pack of comedy!

And you are switching from 'the Torah and the injilhas been distorted' to 'the Jews and the Christians do not follow the law in their book', what a confused set of people! It is very ironic that Muslims, whose holy book (Quran) cannot stand alone without manufactured stories (hadith, seerah, altabari) to support it will accuse the Bible of being distorted. The same manufactured stories that has been classified as strong, weak and fabricated and are still being used to making a meaning of every ayah of the Quran. You are the one to open your brain and know that you have been scammed big time by the Arabian conmen, together with their Persian collaborators (the Turkish, the Iranians and the Uzbeks).

I also told you that your most reliable hadith was written by Imam Bukhari, an Uzbek man, about 230/years after the death of Mohammed. Is Mohammed aware of the hadith? Did Allah also inspire and approve the hadith? Did Imam Bukahri meet Mohammed or any of the sahabas alive? How many hadith did Bukhari collect that were later filtered and 'downsized' to about 7200 collected narration? And this is same book (filled with rumours and gossips) that you use to explain the thousands of confusing ayah in the Quran. Bros abeg put on your thinking cap if you don't have any yet. Islam is a pack of lies and some stories lifted from existing religions (Judaism, Christianity, Zoroastrianism and Sabianism).

Look at the flaws in your religious text that are very glaring before accusing others. Very ironic and surprising!

sagenaija:

So, What have you said here?
Is there any reference here to any of what I put up there?
Can you explain in simple language for us who are not "geniuses" to understand?

Islamic sources speak from both sides of the mouth. Prove me wrong.

what do you expect from me now?. To keep quoting Islamic sources that you don't agree with?. That's just endless arguments. What is clear is you made no reference back to allegations I raised with regard to Torah and Gospel.. Why should I continue with you now?. You keep asking silly question WHEN Bible was corrupted. Yet these corruptions are written all over both Torah and Gospel and you still asking me foolish question, seriously, bro?.. You can do better than this man.

Let's try again for the last time. The Gospels or Bible you currently have are what you believe in. They are written by Mathew Mark Luke and John. Where is Gospel according to Jesus?. We will get closure of you can tell us that.

Definitely Gospels according to these 4 guys weren't written by Jesus. So onus is on you to tell us where is Gospel of Jesus Christ?.

If you have no answer to this, then Quran is correct when it said you wrote it your ownselves and attributed it to God. Luke already cleared the air

true2god:
It is very magical that Muslims will claim that the Bible had been corrupted but do not have a single copy of the incorruptible one. Where is the 'authentic' Torah and the injil that Zakir Naik, and millions of his fellow clowns, have been talking about? They don't have it because they have to manufacture lies to discredit the Bible. It is even worrisome for a religion like Islam, whose founder was tutored by a gnostic Christian, waraqa ibn naufal, to challenge the Bible? It is even more worrisome that it was even this same Christian that told him that he is a prophet, not even Allah or jibril. Islam is a pack of comedy!

And you are switching from 'the Torah and the injilhas been distorted' to 'the Jews and the Christians do not follow the law in their book', what a confused set of people! It is very ironic that Muslims, whose holy book (Quran) cannot stand alone without manufactured stories (hadith, seerah, altabari) to support it will accuse the Bible of being distorted. The same manufactured stories that has been classified as strong, weak and fabricated and are still being used to making a meaning of every ayah of the Quran. You are the one to open your brain and know that you have been scammed big time by the Arabian conmen, together with their Persian collaborators (the Turkish, the Iranians and the Uzbeks).

I also told you that your most reliable hadith was written by Imam Bukhari, an Uzbek man, about 230/years after the death of Mohammed. Is Mohammed aware of the hadith? Did Allah also inspire and approve the hadith? Did Imam Bukahri meet Mohammed or any of the sahabas alive? How many hadith did Bukhari collect that were later filtered and 'downsized' to about 7200 collected narration? And this is same book (filled with rumours and gossips) that you use to explain the thousands of confusing ayah in the Quran. Bros abeg put on your thinking cap if you don't have any yet. Islam is a pack of lies and some stories lifted from existing religions (Judaism, Christianity, Zoroastrianism and Sabianism).

Look at the flaws in your religious text that are very glaring before accusing others. Very ironic and surprising!

I know you are in serious pain because, obviously, you can't defend those contradictions I cited earlier. You simply made no reference to them. Anyways, they are still up there should you have time to figure it out. For now, I know it hurts that you can't really fix problems with your Bible or Gospels or whatever you which to call it. You and your partner should try to figure out why you have Gospels according to Mathew Mark Luke and John instead of Jesus himself.

Empiree:
what do you expect from me now?. To keep quoting Islamic sources that you don't agree with?. That's just endless arguments. What is clear is you made no reference back to allegations I raised with regard to Torah and Gospel.. Why should I continue with you now?. You keep asking silly question WHEN Bible was corrupted. Yet these corruptions are written all over both Torah and Gospel and you still asking me foolish question, seriously, bro?.. You can do better than this man.

Let's try again for the last time. The Gospels or Bible you currently have are what you believe in. They are written by Mathew Mark Luke and John. Where is Gospel according to Jesus?. We will get closure of you can tell us that.

Definitely Gospels according to these 4 guys weren't written by Jesus. So onus is on you to tell us where is Gospel of Jesus Christ?.

If you have no answer to this, then Quran is correct when it said you wrote it your ownselves and attributed it to God. Luke already cleared the air

Genius Empiree,
I've been trying to let you know that your "Koranic logic" has affected the way you reason but it seems you are not getting it because it has done more harm to you than i thought.

Did you watch any of those clips I posted?
Maybe not. You may be AFRAID that they will ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS and expose your lies.

You're so tied up with the issue of the gospels being "according to ......"

BUT MAJORITY of your today's KORAN is "ACCORDING TO HAFS". True or false? So, if your Koran is said to be "According to Hafs" do you not see that your arguments aginst the gospels stands on its head?

Mohamed NEVER PUT TOGETHER the current Koran. True or false? Yet you accept it.

UNLIKE the gospels NO EYEWITNESS or CONTEMPORARY of Mohamed wrote the Koran. It was gathered from BITS and PIECES from scattered jottings here and there. And you guys still think its REASONABLE to accept such a "collection" as "authentic".

I have brought out FACTS that you have been unable to refute. Instead what you do is claim "that has been answered back there".

You seem to be an "EXPERT" copying and pasting. Why don't you then simply 'copy' what you answered and 'paste' it again FOR ALL TO SEE?

It's because you've actually answered NOTHING.
You are running away from TRUTH OF ISLAM which will upset all you've lived with all your life.

I can immediately predict even your response to this my post. First, you will answer none of my questions. I will not state your other responses until you do and I will remind you of what I've said here.

I am sure you know within you that there are FLAWS IN your religion Islam. But somehow you want some 'comfort' if you can see flaws in Christianity. At least then you can rest on the fact that it is not only Islam that has flaws. Unfortunately you are clinging on to straws to find flaws in Christianity. Christianity is Jesus Christ! Unless you can find and point out flaws in him all your arguments will be flawed.

sagenaija:

Genius Empiree,
I've been trying to let you know that your "Koranic logic" has affected the way you reason but it seems you are not getting it because it has done more harm to you than i thought.

Did you watch any of those clips I posted?
Maybe not. You may be AFRAID that they will ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS and expose your lies.

You're so tied up with the issue of the gospels being "according to ......"

BUT MAJORITY of your today's KORAN is "ACCORDING TO HAFS". True or false? So, if your Koran is said to be "According to Hafs" do you not see that your arguments aginst the gospels stands on its head?

Mohamed NEVER PUT TOGETHER the current Koran. True or false? Yet you accept it.

You really cant help yourself, right?. What's "Quran according to Hafs". You had to go this far to cover shame in your book?. Will appreciate if you can explain quran according to hafs. You are very ridiculous! We have only one Quran written down in the lifetime of prophet muhammad(saw). Can you say this of bible?


إِنَّا نَحْنُ نَزَّلْنَا الذِّكْرَ وَ إِنَّا لَهُ لَحافِظُون

"We have, without doubt, sent down the Message (Holy Quran); and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption)". (15/9)




Say: ‘If all mankind and the jinn would come together to produce the like of this Quran, they could not produce its like even though they exerted all and their strength in aiding one another.’” (Quran 17:88)

UNLIKE the gospels NO EYEWITNESS or CONTEMPORARY of Mohamed wrote the Koran. It was gathered from BITS and PIECES from scattered jottings here and there. And you guys still think its REASONABLE to accept such a "collection" as "authentic".

You are laughable. You need to stop embarrassing yourself man. show us Quran that is different from present Quran that we have. This is the only way you can effectively argue. Otherwise, you are dismissed.

I can immediately predict even your response to this my post. First, you will answer none of my questions. I will not state your other responses until you do and I will remind you of what I've said here.

I am sure you know within you that there are FLAWS IN your religion Islam. But somehow you want some 'comfort' if you can see flaws in Christianity. At least then you can rest on the fact that it is not only Islam that has flaws. Unfortunately you are clinging on to straws to find flaws in Christianity. Christianity is Jesus Christ! Unless you can find and point out flaws in him all your arguments will be flawed.

Or do they say that he has invented it? Say (to them), ‘Bring ten invented chapters like it, and call (for help) on whomever you can besides God, if you are truthful.” (Quran 11:13)



you are boring. you will be ignored soon. My question is still out there that you are dulging. Where is Gospel according to Jesus. Common sense tells you that Gospel according Matthew, Mark, Luke and John were not written by Jesus. Is this difficult for you to understand?

Empiree:
You really cant help yourself, right?. What's "Quran according to Hafs". You had to go this far to cover shame in your book?. Will appreciate if you can explain quran according to hafs. You are very ridiculous! We have only one Quran written down in the lifetime of prophet muhammad(saw).

Who (Really) Wrote The Koran?
Did you see the bolded?
Why is it easy for you Moslems to lie even in the face of FACTS?
Maybe its because like i said Islam speaks from both sides of the mouth
so, you can pick and choose as it will support your argument.
Was the Koran not originally supposed to be RECITATIONS?
And was there no concern YEARS AFTER MOHAMED DIED about those
who memorized it having died and how it may lead to loss of portions of the Koran?
It is well known when the Koran was first compiled into a book yet you are telling us
blatant lie; just to win an argument?
And here you are telling us that it was written down "in the lifetime" of Mohamed.
Whao! This lie alone is enough to make anyone reading us see you for who you are.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqDQcvV4VSA?list=PLqx2MGQd88gq2vNsRhu-tfYB1GZ99WfMK

sagenaija:

Who (Really) Wrote The Koran?
Did you see the bolded?
Why is it easy for you Moslems to lie even in the face of FACTS?
Maybe its because like i said Islam speaks from both sides of the mouth
so, you can pick and choose as it will support your argument.
Was the Koran not originally supposed to be RECITATIONS?
And was there no concern YEARS AFTER MOHAMED DIED about those
who memorized it having died and how it may lead to loss of portions of the Koran?
It is well known when the Koran was first compiled into a book yet you are telling us
blatant lie; just to win an argument?
And here you are telling us that it was written down "in the lifetime" of Mohamed.
Whao! This lie alone is enough to make anyone reading us see you for who you are.

you begin to sound like a sick man of Europe. Why didn't you highlight the rest of the sentence?

Empiree:
you begin to sound like a sick man of Europe. Why didn't you highlight the rest of the sentence?

To expose your lies!

Only a man who is sick in the head will tell us, in the face of glaring evidence in Islamic books, that the Koran was compiled into a book during the lifetime of Mohamed.

I know you believe so many odd things but to lie against your own prophet ought to be haram even to you! Haba!

The most popular present day Koran was only agreed in Egypt in as recent as 1924. Yes or No?

sagenaija:

To expose your lies!

Only a man who is sick in the head will tell us, in the face of glaring evidence in Islamic books, that the Koran was compiled into a book during the lifetime of Mohamed.

I know you believe so many odd things but to lie against your own prophet ought to be haram even to you! Haba!

The most popular present day Koran was only agreed in Egypt in as recent as 1924. Yes or No?

I'm tired of going back and forth with you. You sound so desperate just to cover up holes in your book.

I'm not wasting my time anymore. Do me a favor. The only way I can now reason with you is you bring forward different Qur'ans with different contents. Are we clear?.


Ask me the same about your Bible and I will come forward with it. This is final showcase showdown to put end to this trash.

To be clear, you have to quote a Quran verse in Arabic from same verse from different Qur'an that contradict themselves or missing and do the screenshot if possible. And I will do the same with Bible.

If your are ready to meet this challenge let me know. Are we clear?. If you can't do this then stop quoting me.

Empiree:
I'm tired of going back and forth with you. You sound so desperate just to cover up holes in your book.

I'm not wasting my time anymore. Do me a favor. The only way I can now reason with you is you bring forward different Qur'ans with different contents. Are we clear?.
Ask me the same about your Bible and I will come forward with it. This is final showcase showdown to put end to this trash.
To be clear, you have to quote a Quran verse in Arabic from same verse from different Qur'an that contradict themselves or missing and do the screenshot if possible. And I will do the same with Bible.
If your are ready to meet this challenge let me know. Are we clear?. If you can't do this then stop quoting me.

Koran 15:9 claims – Indeed, it is We who sent down the Qur'an and indeed, We will be its guardian.
Moslems therefore argue that no SINGLE part of the Koran has been altered.
But the following show something different:


The part 2 using another version and Hafs'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwSkDXXpNSI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jlb81KCvYFA

sagenaija:


Koran 15:9 claims – Indeed, it is We who sent down the Qur'an and indeed, We will be its guardian.
Moslems therefore argue that no SINGLE part of the Koran has been altered.
But the following show something different:


The part 2 using another version and Hafs'
https://youtu.be/BwSk.DXXpNSI
https://youtu.be/Jlb81.KCvYFA

Bro, stop doing yourself disservice. Pls post screenshots of your research. I have watched this confused guy before. If you want to use his evidence at least post screenshots for the world to see. I am not the only one reading. I have watched this video before but go ahead and post screenshots. Not everyone is fortunate enough to watch it. Post screenshots if you are indeed truthful.

Empiree:
I know you are in serious pain because, obviously, you can't defend those contradictions I cited earlier. You simply made no reference to them. Anyways, they are still up there should you have time to figure it out. For now, I know it hurts that you can't really fix problems with your Bible or Gospels or whatever you which to call it. You and your partner should try to figure out why you have Gospels according to Mathew Mark Luke and John instead of Jesus himself.

I am so pained right now that I am on 'drip' at the hospital (hiss). You guys are always smarter than Allah and his messenger. I asked you to provide the 'original Torah and the injil' which you claimed your prophet had before he died. It is very ridiculous that your prophet, who can't read or right (according to Muslims) will tell literate people (people of the book) that their text is wrong. Like an illiterate man correcting a Wole Soyinka on his literary works. This argument can only be sustained and supported by the magical logic of Muslims.

Even if the surnames of the gospel writers are provided you will still ask for their botanical names because that's what Islam is built on, apologetics and not convictions. I asked you why Mohammed named some surah after animals such as ant, cow, camel, etc and you ignored it but now asking me to provide the full names of the gospel writers. You are very funny and childish bro. And do you really think an illiterate Arabs cave man (Mohammed) have the intellectual capacity to meaningfully, on an academic or theological level, engage the people of the book (educated people). Do you know one of the reasons Mohammed (and the Arabs) call the Jews and the Christians 'the people of the book'?

Go figure!

sagenaija:

Who (Really) Wrote The Koran?
Did you see the bolded?
Why is it easy for you Moslems to lie even in the face of FACTS?
Maybe its because like i said Islam speaks from both sides of the mouth
so, you can pick and choose as it will support your argument.
Was the Koran not originally supposed to be RECITATIONS?
And was there no concern YEARS AFTER MOHAMED DIED about those
who memorized it having died and how it may lead to loss of portions of the Koran?
It is well known when the Koran was first compiled into a book yet you are telling us
blatant lie; just to win an argument?
And here you are telling us that it was written down "in the lifetime" of Mohamed.
Whao! This lie alone is enough to make anyone reading us see you for who you are.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqDQcvV4VSA?list=PLqx2MGQd88gq2vNsRhu-tfYB1GZ99WfMK

Another issue is that there is no any SINGLE surviving manuscript of the Quran that can be dated from the time of Uthman ibn Affan, the man whole officially endorsed the current Quran Muslims have now. He also failed to tell us why Allah allowed a goat to eat part of the Quran (sunnah jbn majjah 1944) such that the ayah had to be omitted from the Quran. Oh, Ibn majjah is a Jew (Muslims' scape goats).

I still don't get it when a religion that is built on rumours, gossips and hearsay (hadith) which are used to interpret (and make meanings) the Quran will claim moral right to condemned a religion that fake God, Allah, even identified with. What a shame!

Empiree:
Bro, stop doing yourself disservice. Pls post screenshots of your research. I have watched this confused guy before. If you want to use his evidence at least post screenshots for the world to see. I am not the only one reading. I have watched this video before but go ahead and post screenshots. Not everyone is fortunate enough to watch it. Post screenshots if you are indeed truthful.

When the guy 'reverted' to Islam you guys were jumping up and down shouting 'Allahu Akbar' but now that his eyes are wide open he has become a confused man. Islam hypocrisy!

How will you call a man who spent over 7years preaching and defending Islam, even on YouTube, a confused man? How can you call a man who spent over 5 years learning to write and speak Arabic, to better his 'deen', a confused man? You are the confused man here because you can't match his commitment to Islam when he was still ignorant of the false and deceptive religion (Islam)..

sagenaija:

To expose your lies!

Only a man who is sick in the head will tell us, in the face of glaring evidence in Islamic books, that the Koran was compiled into a book during the lifetime of Mohamed.

I know you believe so many odd things but to lie against your own prophet ought to be haram even to you! Haba!

The most popular present day Koran was only agreed in Egypt in as recent as 1924. Yes or No?

He is very ignorant of the fact that Muslim academics, in Alzar University, Cairo Egypt, in 1924, had to come together to agree on a uniform Quran and further works on Islamic source documents and related manuscripts was stopped. If the Quran was uniform, prior 1924, why will they set up a committee to harmonise the existing Quran? This guys are either liars or are just lazy to do research of their religion. While the Bible of 1800 to 2019 can still be found at homes and libraries, where are the Quran of 1900 to 1923? Destroyed? Let's wait for an answer from the genius himself (empire).

true2god:
When the guy 'reverted' to Islam you guys were jumping up and down shouting 'Allahu Akbar' but now that his eyes are wide open he has become a confused man. Islam hypocrisy!

How will you call a man who spent over 7years preaching and defending Islam, even on YouTube, a confused man? How can you call a man who spent over 5 years learning to write and speak Arabic, to better his 'deen', a confused man? You are the confused man here because you can't match his commitment to Islam when he was still ignorant of the false and deceptive religion (Islam)..

You know a man is confused after knowing what tawhid or Oneness of God is and then foolishly renounced islam over trivial issue. You noticed that he never argued on essence of islam, that's major tenet which God is One. Rather he was busy over silly things. Thats definition of confusion. He could preach for 40yr. Who cares if he renounce islam after that?. So since he is still alive, he still has hope. He may tomorrow changes faith to Judaism to Hinduism to Buddhism to Taoism to Shintoism to Atheism to Scientologist back to Islam. You just cant tell at this moment.

true2god:
I am so pained right now that I am on 'drip' at the hospital (hiss). You guys are always smarter than Allah and his messenger. I asked you to provide the 'original Torah and the injil' which you claimed your prophet had before he died. It is very ridiculous that your prophet, who can't read or right (according to Muslims) will tell literate people (people of the book) that their text is wrong. Like an illiterate man correcting a Wole Soyinka on his literary works. This argument can only be sustained and supported by the magical logic of Muslims.

onus is not on us but you since your bible or gospel already have these obvious distortions which confirms Quran position. I have out up a challenge up there for your buddy. See if you can help him. Seems he cant help himself. We are absolutely under no obligation to provide original injil. We have enough evidence to prove your distortions.

Even if the surnames of the gospel writers are provided you will still ask for their botanical names because that's what Islam is built on, apologetics and not convictions.

You dont have it. You dont need to be apologetic about it. It is too late for you to concoct fake names in 2019. Your 4 chronological Gospels are fraud. We muslims only picked whatever is in harmony with islamic teachings from it. We use Quran as a standard criteria to judge the Bible.



"Blessed is He who sent down the Criterion i:e Quran, upon His Servant that he may be to the worlds a warner" - Surah Furqan ayah 1

I asked you why Mohammed named some surah after animals such as ant, cow, camel, etc and you ignored it but now asking me to provide the full names of the gospel writers. You are very funny and childish bro. And do you really think an illiterate Arabs cave man (Mohammed) have the intellectual capacity to meaningfully, on an academic or theological level, engage the people of the book (educated people). Do you know one of the reasons Mohammed (and the Arabs) call the Jews and the Christians 'the people of the book'?

Go figure!

I simply did not notice. And, pint of correction.I know that you knew but you followed your dire. Quran was not names by Muhammad(saw) but His Creator. So these names of Animals you mentioned goes to show you that Qur'an covers all aspect of life including ant for that matter. It mentioned cow in reference to Jews who worshipped golden calf or questioned their prophet about sacrificial cow they were ordered for.

Mr. "educated and intelligent" one, since you (people of the Book) are so damn educated, how come you teach pupils in schools that 1+1+1=3 but when it comes to simple religious issue, 1+1+1=1 and then you told us that we can not understand unless and until we have "holy spirit"?. How's that "education" working for you?

Empiree:
Bro, stop doing yourself disservice. Pls post screenshots of your research. I have watched this confused guy before. If you want to use his evidence at least post screenshots for the world to see. I am not the only one reading. I have watched this video before but go ahead and post screenshots. Not everyone is fortunate enough to watch it. Post screenshots if you are indeed truthful.

What disservice?

Post which screenshots?
Up there I posted the Red Flags of Islam one after the other with the references and what did you do to it? Nothing. Because you were caught.
Now you are here asking for screenshots. Remember I am the “zombie” and you are the “genius”?

You sure have a funny way of avoiding issues. You have mastered DEFLECTION. Next you will claim that because I didn’t post the screenshots that is why you didn’t respond. You will then celebrate your “victory”.

If you have watched the guy like you claim, then it means you must know what he said. So, why not take those points one by one and refute them if you can?

Is the matter not simple enough for the “genius” to grasp?
- The Koran has different ARABIC versions. Some say there are up to 31 Arabic versions.
- These versions vary from each other in places i.e. there are textual variants.
- Therefore, the Koran has not been “perfectly preserved”. NOTE: “PERFECTLY PRESERVED” means just that and nothing else.
Coming up with “its just different ways of expressing it” means CHANGES have been introduced.
- Between Hafs version and Doori which are both Arabic versions there are differences.
- Between Hafs and Warsh Arabic versions there are differences.
- Differences that change the meaning of the expressions.

sagenaija:


What disservice?

Post which screenshots?
Up there I posted the Red Flags of Islam one after the other with the references and what did you do to it? Nothing. Because you were caught.
Now you are here asking for screenshots. Remember I am the “zombie” and you are the “genius”?

You sure have a funny way of avoiding issues. You have mastered DEFLECTION. Next you will claim that because I didn’t post the screenshots that is why you didn’t respond. You will then celebrate your “victory”.

If you have watched the guy like you claim, then it means you must know what he said. So, why not take those points one by one and refute them if you can?

Is the matter not simple enough for the “genius” to grasp?
- The Koran has different ARABIC versions. Some say there are up to 31 Arabic versions.
- These versions vary from each other in places i.e. there are textual variants.
- Therefore, the Koran has not been “perfectly preserved”. NOTE: “PERFECTLY PRESERVED” means just that and nothing else.
Coming up with “its just different ways of expressing it” means CHANGES have been introduced.
- Between Hafs version and Doori which are both Arabic versions there are differences.
- Between Hafs and Warsh Arabic versions there are differences.
- Differences that change the meaning of the expressions.

Man, talk is cheap. Hafs, Warsh etc are different methods of Qirat (recitations) of Quran. What has this gotta do with distortions, discrimpancies like the Bible?. This is why I asked you to screenshot for the world to see. The dude's video you posted is a confused fellow. I repeat confused fellow.

You can simply go on YouTube and listen to different Qirat of Qur'an. You get to know what that means not copy copy you are doing here. It is not gonna help you, bro.