Empiree:
Bible writers were fraudulent. We have proved this.

sagenaija:

Looks like you are afraid to answer the question.
Perhaps it will expose your underbelly.
A simple question and you are unable to answer?

Empiree:
See @bold that was revealed first. Feel comfortable now?. I am sure the former was answered some weeks ago by different contributors including myself. If you are not comfortable with our answers, Deal With It

sapientia:


Am not sick sir, but you are talking about the translation to English.

If the Quoran is translated to English, does it make it the official date of coming into existence?

Christianity predates Islam so am still asking you how your request could have been possible.

By the Time the last apostles died, it took another four centuries for Mohammed to be born.

true2god:
Clap for yourself for choosing a more convenient one to answer. You have however refused to answer the 'koko', that is who spoke in surah al-fathiha.

As for your answer, if Allah revealed surah 96 first, why did uthman Ibn Affan (the man that compiled the quran) not make it the first surah of the Quran? If the surah of the Quran can be arranged randomly, without considering the sequence of event, what confident do you have in a book that lacks basic 'organizational structuring'? The quran, because of this problem, is to be recited because it won't make any logical sense reading it as a result of how the surah and the ayah were arranged. I nearly have a serious headache while reading the Qur'an because it was poorly written and badly arranged. All the books by Prof. Wole Soyinka are all 10000% organized than your Quran. Pick up Wole Soyinka's novel and pick up the Quran, read both side by side and see which makes more sense.

Take away pack, who spoke in surah al-fathiha?

This arrangement was for the period when it was being revealed

Once it was fully revealed, then it it was destined to be guidence for humanity till day of judgement

وَلَقَدْ آتَيْنَاكَ سَبْعًا مِنَ الْمَثَانِي وَالْقُرْآنَ الْعَظِيمَ

We have given thee seven of the oft-repeated (verses) and the great Qur'an.

Al Quran 15.87

Surah fatiha is a application form for a divine course

Course starts from surah baqarah and ends at surah waqia

From surah Hadid to surah tahrim, synopsis of the course

From surah mulk to surah Nas appendices

What a wonderful arrangement

true2god:

As for your answer, if Allah revealed surah 96 first, why did uthman Ibn Affan (the man that compiled the quran) not make it the first surah of the Quran? If the surah of the Quran can be arranged randomly, without considering the sequence of event, what confident do you have in a book that lacks basic 'organizational structuring'? The quran, because of this problem, is to be recited because it won't make any logical sense reading it as a result of how the surah and the ayah were arranged. I nearly have a serious headache while reading the Qur'an because it was poorly written and badly arranged. All the books by Prof. Wole Soyinka are all 10000% organized than your Quran. Pick up Wole Soyinka's novel and pick up the Quran, read both side by side and see which makes more sense.

Take away pack, who spoke in surah al-fathiha?

true2god:
Show me this 'proof' using the Quran and the hadith (your standard source material).

Empiree:
do yourself a favor man. Go back to previous pages in this thread or there is another thread created by this op or his partner called adeyinka and look for answers there. We just talked about this and it seemed yourself contributed. Why are you guys recycling all over again?. Sura Fathia is Word of Allah. It is a summation of the entire Qur’an, and the verses of addressing Allah (“You alone do we worship…”) are sent by Allah to us, to teach us the most proper way of turning to Him and calling on Him in supplication.



so organizational structure of Quran is your headache now and not the message?. These things your are asking are evangelical in nature. They aren't new man. Quran says:




وَقُرْآنًا فَرَقْنَاهُ لِتَقْرَأَهُ عَلَى النَّاسِ عَلَىٰ مُكْثٍ وَنَزَّلْنَاهُ تَنْزِيلًا

And (it is) a Qur'an that We have divided, that thou mayst recite it unto mankind at intervals, and We have revealed it by (successive) revelation.

Al Quran 17.106







The order of the Qur’an was dictated to the Prophet pbuh from Allah swt. Kindly read attachments

true2god:
Which previous post are you talking about? If you are sure it had bee. discussed, just provide the link and stop this your old tactics of saying 'the issue has been tackled' in order to escape from an issue.

According to Muslims, all the words in the Quran are words of Allah from A to Z. It does not contain any word of a mortal man. Well let's look at your sura al-fathiha (Quran 1:1-7):

"In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.
Praise be to Allah, Lord of the Worlds,
The Beneficent, the Merciful:
Owner of the Day of Judgment,
Thee (alone) we worship; Thee alone we ask for help.
Show us the straight path,
The path of those whom Thou hast favored;
Not (the path) of those who earn Thine anger nor of those who go astray."

My analysis:

Since the Quran is the alleged words of Allah, so Allah started in surah by praising himself:

"In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.
Praise be to Allah, Lord of the Worlds,
The Beneficent, the Merciful:
Owner of the Day of Judgment,'

Allah again said: 'Thee (alone) we worship; Thee alone we ask for help'. Allah worshipped Allah and sought help from Allah.

Allah said again: 'show us the straight path (Islam), the path of those whom thou hast flavoured (Muslims), not the path of those who earned your anger (the Jews) or of those who go astray (the Christians).

You have really tried to deceive yourself that Allah was the one speaking in surah al-fathiha, but you cannot deceive me. Surah al-fathiha is not the words of any Allah but the prayers of one of the early caliphs added to the Quran as the pre-amble, the opener. Do your independent research with an open mind and you will see that you have been brainwashed to believe a lie.

A simple knowledge of grammar will tell you that surah al-fathiha is a supplication Muslim recite to a higher power which Muslims fraudulently included in the Quran instead of opening the Quran with the real beginning of the alleged revelation, which is surah 96.

Empiree:
first of all, you know how investigative journalism works?. You know when police investigate someone but they mistook their target for someone else and they go after the later bcuz their names are identical?. So police would call whoever of them they are able to interview to determine who the criminal is. Let's say for instance police are looking for true2god whose last name is "true2god Adelaide". But they found "true2god adebakr" and another true2god who they can't confirm his last name. Now these are three suspected terrorists. Police would be confused automatically and try to unravel which one.

You see 2 true2gods would suffer lots of police trauma even though they are innocent bcuz the true criminal is a true2god who doesn't have last name. Therefore true2god without last name can not be verified and he got away with it.


In another word, what is the last name of Mathew, Mark, Luke and John?. The first thing police do when they interview is to find out full name to establish accuracy and authenticity of the suspect. Therefore, using this standard, Mathew Mark Luke and John are unverifiable. No one knows their lineage and their last name.

But if you read hadith, you will always read last names of the narrators and sub-narrators. For instance, AbdulRahma Ibn Awf. Umar ibn Khattab. Uthman ibn Affan. Ali ibn Talib etc. Ibn means the son of and we can trace their family tree.


Can you successfully trace family tree of Paul, Mathew Mark Luke and John?. This is the reason why they are fraud. I didn't say this out of arrogant but for you to think. If you can not establish last name of recipient of a check worths $3m you can't give the check out. Otherwise you may eventually give away $3m to unknown.

Also it is no doubt that there are unknown Bible authors/writers apart from chronological Gospels. What a mess, bro?.

Empiree:

your opinion. You believe that Jesus is God and ultimately you believe "That Lord's prayer" is God's words. So was God speaking to himself when he said:

Our father in the heaven

Give us this day our daily bread

Forgive us our tresspasses

Here, God is teaching his desciples how to implement prayers. In the same instance Allah is teaching Muslims how to pray. In another word, sura fathia in summation of Quran. It is absolute word of God - Allah.

Empiree:
lol... This was not even long ago. This was just maybe 2-3 weeks ago and you contributed. You chose to bring this up again. Isn't onus on you to look for it?



smh... Even after evidences are presented to you?.





your opinion. You believe that Jesus is God and ultimately you believe "That Lord's prayer" is God's words. So was God speaking to himself when he said:



Our father in the heaven

Give us this day our daily bread

Forgive us our tresspasses



Here, God is teaching his desciples how to implement prayers. In the same instance Allah is teaching Muslims how to pray. In another word, sura fathia in summation of Quran. It is absolute word of God - Allah.

true2god:
The Quran acknowledged the Torah and the Injil which shows that it was in circulation at the time of Mohammed

and I asked you to prove to me that the Torah and the Injeel are fraudulent, using your standard materials, the Quran and the hadith, even the seerah. Is this too difficult a request?

The truth is that you cannot use your Quran to condemn the Bible because Allah, in the Quran, acknowledged it as 'his' words (tho the Christians and the Jews do not recognise Allah). It is Muslims who manufacture lies to invalidate the Bible and Allah must be angry with you guys.

Muslims always disobey Allah in order to diminish the Jews and the Christians. Hear Allah told you;

Q:10:94 - So if you - [O Arab Messenger] - are in doubt, about that which We have revealed to you [O Arab Messenger], then ask those who have been reading the Book from before you. The truth has certainly come to you from your Lord, so never be among the doubters.

sagenaija:

Emp.iree, It's amazing how you put forward your Islamic 'logic' in your arguments.

The Issue of the Lord's prayer and your Fathia are not on the same level.

In the case of the Lord's prayer Jesus WAS ASKED DIRECTLY by the disciples to teach them to pray.
He then gave them the model prayer.

In the case of the Koran it is Allah that is said to make the declarations directly. NOTHING THERE points to Allah saying 'When you pray say it like this. Any allusion to the claim that Allah is teaching Moslems how to pray is a CONTORTION of modern day Mohammedans like yourself.

This is again a proof of the fact that the Koran which claims to be CLEAR is the opposite of such claim. If Allah cannot clearly say I am telling you to pray like this ....... And it has to take smart Moslems like yourself to bring it out that should tell you something is wrong somewhere.

Btw, hope your'e aware that "In the name of Allah ........" is repeated in other places in the Koran when it is not there in the original.

At the end of the day what you guys are doing is to try and make the Koran mean what you want. You also want to use Biblical standards to re-interpret your Koran. Unfortunately your 'scholars' will always expose you.

Empiree:
You guys keep bringing up this excuses. When Qur'an tails about Tawrah and Injil, it is not taking about Torah and Gospel/Bible you have today. There are glaring evidences within these books to suggest that current Torah and Gospel are diluted/corrupted/distorted.

For inside current Torah says it is unlawful for the Jews to charge their fellow Jews interest on a loan. Also said it is Jews should not eat okubete but they can give okubete to non-jews because they are less than humans. So you think this double standards book called Torah is from God?. In the current Torah also said where Moses was buried which means someone else wrote Torah not Moses. Current Torah is pirated copy of the original.




over the years on this platform, we discussed this issue. Don't tell me you have short memory. Have you forgotten the days of ifeann where we talked in details?. And now you gonna ask me to show you the thread. This is ridiculously silly. Why do you need Quran to prove this when you have unsubstantiated unknown authors of your books?

Here is a hint from Quran and we have some more


Sura 2:79:

So woe unto those who write the book with their hands, then say, “This is from God,” that they may sell it for a paltry price. So woe unto them for what their hands have written and woe unto them for what they earn.


The book mentioned in this verse refers to no other than previous revealed books which he's and Christians have tampered with. Therefore it is talking about corruption in Torah and Gospel.








your Bible is it's own worse enemy. You shamelessly ignore Mathew Mark Luke and John. What's their last names?. Sometime without last name had no credibility.




another recycle post. Why are you doing this to yourself, true2god?. You know too will this was discussed. So no, Quran is not telling us to ask you for guidance. It is rather talking about specific incident at the time.

true2god:
Good morning bro, hope you have eaten so well this morning before starting your 'fasting'. That's a good strategy.

Back to the business at hand. you said the Bible of today is not the Bible of Mohammed's time, that's OK

. Can you please show us the Bible Mohammed was talking about,

that he asked you guys to use as a reference? I am 1000% sure that no Muslim has it because the lie (the Bible is distorted) must be maintained to valid to Quran. The Quran contradicts the Bible hence Muslims must find an easy way out by condemning the Bible to give Quran its validity.

You quoted an ayah to make your point as read below:

So woe unto those who write (present tense) the book (Quran) with their hands, then say, “This is from God,” that they may sell it for a paltry price. So woe unto them for what their hands have written and woe unto them for what they earn.

Take a look that ayah, it says 'who write' (not wrote) to confirm that it is a present (continuous) tense. The Torah and the jnjil had been completely written over 500 years before Mohammed was born. No one was writing any Torah and the Injil at the time of Mohammed; what was being written is your own Quran.

I have told you the reason why this ayah was revealed but Muslims will always stubbornly want to pin all the inadequacies of their scriptures on the Bible. 'Kilode gan!' (what's it!). You are a student of Islamic studies and I want to believe you are aware that Mohammed was an illiterate man hence he employed the services of secretaries to do the writings of the Quran for him while he dictated. And among the secretaries he employed, in Medina, was Abdullah ibn Saar, the half brother of Uthman ibn Affan (the 3rd rightly guided khalifa). The ayah was referring to him because he used to manufacture his own words into the Quran and Mohammed will concur. He therefore reasoned that Mohammed can never be a prophet and the Quran was not from any Allah hence he left Islam and went back to Mecca to tell the Meccans that Mohammed was fake.

When Mohammed conquered Mecca, he marked 6 people to be killed even if they are found in the cotton of kabba and among them is Abdullah ibn Saar. While other five people (3 men and 2 women) were brutality murdered, Uthman ibn Affan hid Abdullah ibn Saar for about 3 months, so that the situation of things could calm, he then presented him to Mohammed to seek his forgiveness and equally pay allegiance (the shahada) to Mohammed. Mohammed initially declined but accept his allegiance but reluctantly did in order not to upset one of his strongest generals, Uthman ibn Affan. He (Mohammed) however berated his body guards and asked them why they did not strike his neck when he refused his allegiance in the first place. Read references below, they are all Islamic sources.

(Sirat Rasul Allah by Ibn Ishaq, page. 550,
Tabaqat Al-Kabir, page. 174,
Sunnah Abu Dawud 14:2677,
Sunnah Abu Dawud 38:4345,
Sunnah Abu Dawud 38:4346,
Mazda Publishers, Costa Mesa, CA 1994], pp. 98-99).All the materials listed above can be found in your Islamic stores and were written by your fellow Muslims. Sunnah Abu Dawud is a hadith graded as sahih and it has a multiple chains of narrations to support this fact. Your earliest biographer of Mohammed, Ibn Ishaq, also wrote about this incident.

So the verse you wanna pin on Christians was actually talking about some of Mohammed's companions who were doctoring what he was dictating and the incident was presented as a present tense (write) which shows that there was a work in progress in the writing of the book. Be logical bro so that you don't follow the large Islamic bandwagon that keep telling lies concerning your scriptures.

Empiree:
morning. Actually iftar is just about to begin in 5 mins where i am. It is almost 3AM.



perhaps you can quote where i said this?. What we believe is that, at the time of the advent of nabi Muhammad(SAW), message(Injil) given to Jesus(AS) was already distorted because Quran captured this.

true2god:
More references:

Baidawi (died 1286) writes:
“‘To me it has been revealed’, when naught has been revealed to him” refers to `Abdallah Ibn Sa`d Ibn Abi Sarh, who used to write for God’s messenger. The verse (23:12) that says, “We created man of an extraction of clay” was revealed, and when Muhammad reached the part that says, “… thereafter We produced him as another creature (23:14), `Abdallah said, “So blessed be God the fairest of creators!” in amazement at the details of man’s creation. The prophet said, “Write it down; for thus it has been revealed.” `Abdallah doubted and said, “If Muhammad is truthful then I receive the revelation as much as he does, and if he is a liar, what I said is a good as what he said.” (Tafsir Anwar al-Tanzil wa Asrar al-Ta’wil [by Abdallah ibn Umar Al-Baidawi])

Ibn Al Athir (1160-1233 AD) writes:
He converted to Islam before the conquest of Mecca and immigrated to the Prophet(P) [i.e. in Medina]. He used to record the revelation for the Prophet(P) before he apostatized and went back to Mecca. Then he told Quraysh: ‘I used to orient Muhammad wherever I willed, he dictated to me “All-Powerful All-Wise” and I suggest “All Knowing All-Wise” so he would say: “Yes, it is all the same.” (Ibn al-Athîr, Usûd Ulghâbah fî Ma’rifat Is-Sahâbah, 1995, Dâr al-Fikr, Beruit (Lebanon), Volume 3, p. 154)

sagenaija:

Sunan Abu Dawud

Book 38, Number 4434

Narrated Abdullah Ibn Umar:

A group of Jews came and invited the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) to Quff. So he visited them in their school.

They said: AbulQasim, one of our men has committed fornication with a woman; so pronounce judgment upon them.

They placed a cushion for the Apostle of Allah who sat on it and said: Bring the Torah. It was then brought. He then withdrew the cushion from beneath him and placed the Torah on it saying: I believed in thee and in Him who revealed thee.

Empiree:
morning. Actually iftar is just about to begin in 5 mins where i am. It is almost 3AM.



perhaps you can quote where i said this?. What we believe is that, at the time of the advent of nabi Muhammad(SAW), message(Injil) given to Jesus(AS) was already distorted because Quran captured this. Quran only confirms truth left in it. Thats what Quran confirmed.



Prophet Muhammad(SAW) did not recognize Bible.




We only take from your present Bible what Quran confirms or what is in harmony with Quran.



Why are you shifting from Injil ro bible and bible to Injil?. Bibles that you have today are "according to Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. None of them is Bible according to Jesus. You failed.



You picked this fake news? Even cardinal(catholic) confirmed prophet MUhammad was God's prophet. This your post is too late to declare prophet of islam fake.




Fake news. It is well known that when nabi Muhammad(saw) reached Mecca, he spared lives of his enemies including Abu Sufyan(ra) and many others. No blood was shed. This was clear from his farewell sermon. You need to re-read your references very well especially Sunnah Abu Dawud 14:2677. I don't know how you managed to not understand despite written in english. The people were spared, my friend.





I quoted you tip of iceberg and you twisted it?. I even got more. But why should i waste my time when I already used your own bible author to crucify you?. My questions stands. Who were Matthew, mark, Luke and John?. On whose authority did they write thier Books?. Even Luke confessed from beginning of his letter that he knew knowing except what he was told. And you still want me to believe this was the Injil given to Jesus?.

true2god:
[s]Hope you are not in Afghanistan or Libya? Stay safe bro! [/s]

You said 'the Injil given to Jesus was already distorted'. You guys will just manufacture a claim without evidence. Where did the Quran say, specifically, that the Injil has been distorted? Why will Allah ask the Muslims to 'consult the people of a corrupted book' (the Jews and the Christians) for any clarification? It is either Allah or the Muslims are confused. I need you present hard evidence, and not gossip from your mosques, that the Torah and the Injil had been distorted at the time of Mohammed.

It is also intellectually dishonest for you to pick and chose, whatever suits for argument, the same book you claimed had been distorted. The Torah and the Injil are not hadith (rumours and gossips) where you chose what you like, like a basket of tomato.

What's the issue if I chose to call it the Bible or Torah and the Injil. Do you want to make another issue using semantics? The information is clear, don't hold onto a strawman please.

Which fake cardinal declared Mohammed as a prophet. That person need to resign from his cardinalship; he is as fake as Mohammed himself. Provide an official document from the papacy, the Catholic church, that recognized the prophethood of Mohammed and not a random guy who no one can easily identify.

You called my points that highlited what happened in Mecca, upon Mohammed's return, as a fake news. Then you must accept the fact that sunnah Abu Dawud is a fake hadith and seerah rasool Allah by ibn Ishaq is also fake. You you say this in Saudi Arabia, 'walahi', they will throw you inside jail for blasphemy. These are the names of the 5 people Mohammed killed, upon his return from Medina: See hadith below:

It was narrated from Mus'ab bin Sa'd that his father said:
"On the day of the Conquest of Makkah, the Messenger of Allah [SAW] granted amnesty to the people, except four men and two women. He said: 'Kill them, even if you find them clinging to the covers of Ka'bah.' (They were) 'Ikrimah bin Abi Jahl, 'Abdullah bin Khatal, Miqyas bin Subabah and 'Abdullah bin Sa'd bin Abi As-Sarh. 'Abdullah bin Khatl was caught while he was clinging to the covers of Ka'bah. Sa'eed bin Huraith and 'Ammar bin Yasir both rushed toward him, but Sa'eed, who was the younger of the two, got there before 'Ammar, and he killed him. Miqyas bin Subabah was caught by the people in the marketplace, and they killed him. 'Ikrimah traveled by sea, and he was caught in a storm. The crew of the ship said: 'Turn sincerely toward Allah, for your (false) gods cannot help you at all in this situation.' 'Ikrimah said: 'By Allah, if nothing came to save me at sea except sincerity toward Allah then nothing else will save me on land. O Allah, I promise You that if You save me from this predicament I will go to Muhammad [SAW] and put my hand in his, and I am sure that I will find him generous and forgiving.' So he came, and accepted Islam....(source: : Sunan an-Nasa'i hadith number 4067).

On your last point, I won't go searching for people's surnames, the alleged writers of the gospels. It is an irrelevant and a diversionary tactics I usually entertain from you. A'int gonna play that game with ya bro!

Empiree:
Your point is?. This is so easy to refute. Let me quickly trash you out before i go.

Christian Argument # 1:

The hadith from Sunan Abu Dawud Book 38, Number 4434 shows that Muhammad respected the Torah and thus acknowledged its sanctity. This shows that Muhammad believed that the Torah at his time was not textually corrupted.

This narration you brought appears to relate to rajm(stoning) when Jewish Rabbi brought people who committed adultery and ask our prophet to pass judgement on them. But some fabricated phrases were added to this text that i found strange. The report is considered weak because one of its reporters is Hisham ibn Sa'd whose narratives are disturbed and corrupted according to many hadith critics like Ibn Hanbal, Ibn Ma'een, Abu Hatem, al-Nisa'ee, Ibn Sa'd, Ibn 'Adii, al-Madini, al-Hakim, al-'Aqili, Ibn Habban and others.

This is the reason why Ibn Hazm notes:


As for the report in which the Prophet (peace be upon him) took the Torah and said: "I believe in thee", it is a fabricated false report that did not reach us with proper chain of transmission (Ibn Hazm, Al-Fisal fe al-Milal wa al-Ahwaa wa al-Nihal, Volume 1, p. 237)

"[/b]It is also worthy to note that this particular hadith has been reported through multiple chains of transmission; however, no one has ever mentioned the incident of the Prophet (saws) praising the Torah except in the report of Hisham ibn Sa'd from Zaid ibn Aslam.[b]"

Exactly. See that ^ i never came across the phrase too since i have been reading story of stoning encounter btw Jews and Rabbi. It is a fabricated story used by christians. If it is will it prove the argument of the missionaries?

Ibn Hajar Al Asqalani said...

And so, some used this hadith as an indication to show that the Torah that the Jews presented, at that time, to the prophet was all sound and correct and not being altered. However, this argument is far from correctness because even saying: ((I believed in thee and in Him Who revealed thee.) cannot be used as this saying refers to the original Torah (which was revelaed to Moses) [Fathul Bari, Section of rulings of Ahlul dhimma]

I still got more refutation at my disposal in case you still wanna prove stubborn. I just have to go now.

sagenaija:
Emiree, lets look at it this way: Can you show us one place where your prophet Mohamed claimed that the Bible was corrupted?
Btw, Mohamed never wrote the Koran or instruct that it be put in the order it is in today. So, why the fuss about Jesus documenting the Gospels? It is important we know whether those who eventually compiled the Koran where authorised and INSPIRED by Allah to do so. That is what will really give credence to their work. I know you will run away from this. True2god busted you up there and you’ve run into hiding. Try not to do that this time.

true2god:
More references:

Baidawi (died 1286) writes:
“‘To me it has been revealed’, when naught has been revealed to him” refers to `Abdallah Ibn Sa`d Ibn Abi Sarh, who used to write for God’s messenger. The verse (23:12) that says, “We created man of an extraction of clay” was revealed, and when Muhammad reached the part that says, “… thereafter We produced him as another creature (23:14), `Abdallah said, “So blessed be God the fairest of creators!” in amazement at the details of man’s creation. The prophet said, “Write it down; for thus it has been revealed.” `Abdallah doubted and said, “If Muhammad is truthful then I receive the revelation as much as he does, and if he is a liar, what I said is a good as what he said.” (Tafsir Anwar al-Tanzil wa Asrar al-Ta’wil [by Abdallah ibn Umar Al-Baidawi])

Ibn Al Athir (1160-1233 AD) writes:
He converted to Islam before the conquest of Mecca and immigrated to the Prophet(P) [i.e. in Medina]. He used to record the revelation for the Prophet(P) before he apostatized and went back to Mecca. Then he told Quraysh: ‘I used to orient Muhammad wherever I willed, he dictated to me “All-Powerful All-Wise” and I suggest “All Knowing All-Wise” so he would say: “Yes, it is all the same.” (Ibn al-Athîr, Usûd Ulghâbah fî Ma’rifat Is-Sahâbah, 1995, Dâr al-Fikr, Beruit (Lebanon), Volume 3, p. 154)