Deadlytruth:


@OP, the author of the article you referenced actually plagiarized a lot of logical analyses already done by the monicker called Deadlytruth on various NL threads about Igbos' misadventures in Nigeria's political history. The bolded lines are purely original to that moniker.
If you want the links to the NL threads which the author of your source plagiarized to make up his article without giving credit to the genuine original author of those arguments, you can be furnished with them.

we keep debunking your half truths, thank God for the internet.

superlightning:


we keep debunking your half truths, thank God for the internet.

I thought you were going to explain to me what Ironsi meant with the bolded lines of his national broadcast speech as I demanded above?

gidgiddy:



You said Ironsi broke up the 4 Regions into 35 provinces, I said mention one of these 35 provinces that Ironsi created. You cannot mention any because it never happend. You are the only person who does not know that it was Gowon who dissolved the 4 Regions in May 1967 and created 12 states.

I then told you that resouce control is when an area gets the larger share of the proceeds of their land. Ironsi maintained the 50% going to the Regions, intact, this was reinforced in Ironsi's only budget where government revenue was based on the 25% and 25% general purse, which left the regions their 50%

You said Ironsi introduced military rule, it may interest you to know that Nigeria was already under military rule before Ironsi became president. For about 2 days, Nzeogwu was the virtual master of Nigeria from Kaduna as Ironsi battled to crush the coup in Southern Nigeria. It was only after Ironsi prevailed in Lagos did Nzeogwu give up and hand himself over to Ironsi. One could say that Ironsi used the opportunity of Nzeogwus coup to take power but it is a bare faced lie to say that Ironsi introduced military rule when Northern Nigeria was already under the Military rule of Nzeogwu before Ironsi came to power.

You even stooped low to defend Buhari of kicking out the democratically elected government of Shagari

The reason Ironsi is the best Military ruler is that all those who came after him did far worse than he did. They abolished the 4 Regions and created multiple states, they took away resource control and they reduced autonomy far more than Ironsi ever did.

What some people who criticise Ironsi don't realise is that had those who came after Ironsi followed in his footsteps and kept the 4 Regions, Nigeria would have gone back to operating its independence constitution whenever civilian rule returned. But by creating states, there was nothing to go back to when civilian rule returned because the 4 Regions were gone and we had 19 states

The large block of 4 Regions was what made the centre weak, but the creation of 36 states, most of them unviable, was what made the Federal government incredibly strong, and the states weak.

The people destroyed Nigeria were those who sub-divided the 4 Regional structure Ironsi kept

You mean you can't tell me exactly what Ironsi meant by the bolded lines in his national broadcast speech as I demanded of you above but chose to go into this conjectural merry-go-round?

superlightning:


dawodu.com? dawodu.com?! just as I suspected.

Mr dawodu.com, follow this authoritative link (NOT SOME AREWA WEBSITE) and stop disgracing yourself.

https://leadership.ng/2018/07/27/remembering-aguiyi-ironsi-a-patriot-for-all-times/amp/

I thought I was going to see the "authentic" version of Ironsi's May 24 1966 national broadcast on the link you provided, but I opened it only to see the personal view of a person about Ironsi. Are you sure you know what it means to debate with facts and records? And who told you the Leadership Newspaper from which your link above comes is not owned by a Northerner hence equally an Arewa platform?

superlightning:
o summarize it in comparison to your malicious dawodu.com half-truths:

1. The provinces were to be under the regional governors.

And the regional governors were to report to Ironsi at the center. Why did Ironsi appoint regional governors rather than just replace the slain premiers with their deputies, swear in Dipcharima as Balewa's replacement and then go back to the barracks as a professional career military man? Which part of the independence constiution he swore to protect and defend at all times and in all circumstances recommended the appointment of military governors for the regions?

superlightning:
. in his effort to curb tribalism, he wanted a unitary system in which with time, people will acknowledge provinces more above regions, that said, there were NO provincial governors in HIS CABINET so stop twisting the facts.

And by how much has that unitary system been able to curb tribalism till today? What your likes don't understand is that federalism by its intrinsic nature has some integral trappings of tribalism since it is a system which, in principle, seeks to constiutionally endow each tribe (nation within a country) with the power to assert herself and decide her destiny and future within the larger nation. Only fools like Ironsi and Azikiwe believed that tribalism could be divorced from federalism.

superlightning:
. if the provinces were actually in place as you falsely projected it, ojukwu wouldn't have had the balls to break the east away from Nigeria.

As at when Ojukwu decided to break off from Nigeria, Gowon had already, with his Decree 56, repealed Ironsi's Unification Decree and pronounced Ironsi's provinces dead hence Ojukwu had the entire Eastern Region fully back to status quo ante thereby emboldened to declare Biafra.

superlightning:
. if the succeeding heads of state were sincere, why didn't they restore Nigeria back to parliamentarianism? Why did they do worse?

If you want to know why the succeeding heads did not restore Nigeria to paliarmentary system, you should first tell us why Ironsi and his Igbo kinsmen first derailed us from it in the first instance. Ironsi paved the way for all his successors who, according to you, did worse. Why did Ironsi pave the way for them by setting the wrong example as their overall and supreme commander of the army? If a father smokes cocaine, and his son copies him to such an extent that he becomes worse than his father, is it him or his father that should be blamed for his bad upbringing?

superlightning:
. Ironsi wanted a Nigeria where its not your ancestral origin that matters, but your place of birth. for example, Mohammed can say he comes from port Harcourt, wale can say he is from Enugu, chinedu can say he is from markurdi. This is how is it done in developed countries. IRONSI WAS DETRIBALIZED.

Was Nigeria ripe for such? Did the developed countries attain that level overnight? Are the Mohammeds and Abdulahis not leaving their ancestral homes and coming down south as Fulani Herdsmen to freely be from Rivers, Delta, Edo, Bayelsa, Anambra, Enugu, etc and living in them now to terrorize people and shed blood daily? So why do you now complain against Fulani Herdsmen invasion of the South and Middle Belt when such harmonizes perfectly with Ironsi's idea of a united Nigeria? After all it is a fulfilment of Ironsi's vision to see that anyone could freely move away from his state of origin and live elsewhere without any hindrance.
Why are you against Cattle Colony policy despite it is the fastest means for Fulanis to become natives of Southern states as you claim Ironsi wanted hence his Unification Decree? Why do you feel threatened and shout Jihad each time Fulanis claim they have lived long enough in some Southern states to qualify as natives? Isn't that very compatible with the vision you have just credited Ironsi with?
Any attempt to use force or other artificial means in bringing about national integration normally ends up causing more national disunity. Ironsi's artificial methods at that landed us in this mess we've been in for decades.
Even in developed countries, national integration takes a long time.
Wasn't it clearly stated in the American Independence Declaration that all men are created equal before God, yet it took another 100 years for slaves to be set free so they could really become equal to everyone else? Was Ironsi ignorant of this historical fact? Wasn't interracial marriage once forbidden by the Supreme Court in the US until much later on when the sense of nationalism had slowly developed and interracial barriers broken at a slow natural
pace? Why was Ironsi trying to be faster than the course of nature? Weren't the university graduates and professionals who drafted our independence constiution in London aware that national integration happens slowly over many years hence decided on a decentralized system by which every tribe would retain her identity and control her affairs first until such a time when national integration would subdue all that at the right time to be determined by natural cultural evolution process? Was Ironsi more educated, enlightened and knowledgeable than these people on matters of nation building and national integration?
Has the NYSC (a coercive national integration policy similar to Ironsi's attempts) really successfully engendered national unity rather more killings and inter-tribal hatred and resentments?
Ironsi was NOT detribalised. The biggest fraud in political narratives is to credit anyone with detribalization. The same Ironsi whose advisory committee on constiution ammendment was nearly 100% Igbo in composition? What was and still is obvious is that Ironsi, being an Igbo man, destroyed our strictly federal structure because such a structure was not favorable to Igbos who were already dispersed in other regions hence would not enjoy certain privileges given to only the natives of federating regions by their governments as obtains in a strictly federal system.

superlightning:

dawodu.com my foot. Stop following sites that are good in twisting facts. who in his right frame of mind authoritatively quotes dawodu.com

When people disagree with an evidence provided by their opponents, they bring forth their own supposedly superior evidence to substantiate their position. Unfortunately you have not been able to do that here. The contents in dowodu.com are exactly as contained in the national archives.

superlightning:
ttacking a man who is not around to clarify himself is sacrilegious. however the momentum and structure of his administration should have told you that there were 4 regions supervising provinces, MIND YOU, the balewa regime also had provinces/divisions.

And I guess the Enahoro, Awolowo, Balewa, Ahmadu Bello, etc whom you and your fellow Igbos attack daily on this site are around to defend themselves, hence you are not equally guilty of sacrilege? See commedian! The Balewa Government had divisions and not provinces. Each division had duly elected persons overseeing them unlike Ironsi's.

superlightning:
am ready to expose your half-truths any day anytime.
Deadlytruth I am waiting for you and your likes.

Like I have demanded, please first explain what Ironsi meant with the bolded lines in his national broadcast or provide the"authentic" speech let's see.

Deadlytruth:


You are obviously sick of ignorance. Go to YouTube and watch the video of the 1957 Constiutional Conference held in London and through which the Independence constiution was produced. In the video you will see delegates freely elected from every constiutionency to represent them in the conference. There were no military figures in attendance let alone making any input.

The question you should first answer is whether it was right in principle for Abacha and the rest to have convened an SNC to give us a genuinely we-the-people constiution when Ironsi and Igbos had not been able to explain why they destroyed the first of such that we produced at independence, and also had not appologised and promised not to tamper again with any new one to be made in correction of their first blunder?

For introducing military rule at all thus paving the way for all other military opportunists like himself... to warrant our current comparison, Ironsi remains the worst ruler in Nigeria's history. If he hadn't introduced military rule, would we have been trying to compare which military rule was better than which by now?
Which regurgitated lies? Before I take you up further on your phantom bolded claim above, please explain exactly what Ironsi meant with the bolded sentences in his May 24 1966 national broadcast as follows:

Fellow Nigerians:
During the past two weeks I presided over meetings of the Supreme
Military council and the Central Executive Council at which many
important state matters were considered. . .
It is now three months since the Government of the Federal Republic
of Nigeria was handed over to the Armed Forces. Now that peace has
been restored in the troubled areas it is time that the Military
Government indicates clearly what it proposes to accomplish before
relinquishing power. The removal of one of the obstacles on the way
is provided for in the Constitution (Suspension and Modification)
Decree (No. 5) 1966 which was promulgated by me today and comes into
effect at once.
The provisions of the Decree are intended to remove the last
vestiges of the intense regionalism of the recent past, and to
produce that cohesion in the governmental structure which is so
necessary in achieving, and maintaining the paramount objective of
the National Military government, and indeed of every true Nigerian,
namely, national unity.
The highlights of this Decree are as follows:
The former regions are abolished, and Nigeria grouped into a number
of territorial areas called provinces. . . .
Nigeria ceases to be what has been described as a federation. It
now becomes simply the Republic of Nigeria..........
The former Federal Military government and the Central Executive
Council become respectively the National Military Government and the
executive Council. All the Military Governors are members of the
Executive Council.
A Military Governor is assigned to a group of provinces over which
and subject to the direction and control of the Head of the National
Military Government, he shall exercise executive power. In order to
avoid any major dislocation of the present administrative machinery,
the grouping of the provinces has been made to coincide with the
former regional boundaries. This is entirely a transitional measure
and must be understood as such. The present grouping of the
provinces is without prejudice to the Constitutional and
Administrative arrangements to be embodied in the New Constitution in
accordance with the wishes of the people of Nigeria.
The National Military Government assumes the exercise of all
legislative powers throughout the Republic subject to such
delegations to Military Governors as are considered necessary for
purposes of efficient administration.
The public services of the former federation and regions become
unified into one national public service under a National Public
Service Commission. There is a provincial Service Commission for
each group of provinces to which is delegated functions in respect of
public officers below a given rank. This rather drastic change will
probably involve a reconstitution of the existing commissions, and
the National Military Government reserves the right to do so in the
manner stipulated in the Decree. Until this is done, the present
Commissioners continue to act in their posts. Every civil servant is
now called upon to see his function in any part of Nigeria in which
he is serving in the context of the whole country. The orientation
should now be towards national unity and progress. I expect all
civil servants to co-operate and to consult at all levels, vertically
and horizontally, between groups of Provinces and between Provinces
and the Centre.
People are aware that Study Groups

https://www.dawodu.com/irons2.htm

I'm quite sure you didn't read the link, so that explains your lame rebuttal. besides if you had read my statement prior to the link properly, you would know that I was COMPARING your dawodu with an authoritative newspaper in order for the casual reader to get the right articulation and interpretation of ironsi's statements.
the 4 REGIONAL governors were to oversee the provinces in their regions, nothing more, nothing less


secondly, if you were old enough to have had the book '12 years of military rule" published by the daily times, you won't embarrass yourself here. an informed reader would laugh over the gross misinterpretation and dubious narratives you were projecting with your dawodu.com

you keep revising and regurgitating what you have stated earlier. no facts, just dawodu.com You still haven't disproved why other leaders didn't return to parliamentarianism but rather, did worse than ironsi.

I'm sure you intentionally skipped where "provinces/divisions" were typed in my post. I meant to state that these two terms connoted each other. so quit trying to be smart by half.

you said our refusal to allow herdsmen settle in the east is a testimony to your point that we weren't ripe for aguiyi's approach. We don't accommodate or acculturate criminals, it doesn't mean we cant acculturate honorable northerners, after all the former mayor of Enugu (capital of the eastern region) was a Fulani man.

by the way, having a lengthy post does not not on any imply brilliance or facts. you keep releasing garbage before and now. thank God public perception about ironsi is changing for the better. the lies against have be condoned for too long.

superlightning:


I'm quite sure you didn't read the link, so that explains your lame rebuttal. besides if you had read my statement prior to the link properly, you would know that I was COMPARING your dawodu with an authoritative newspaper in order for the casual reader to get the right articulation and interpretation of ironsi's statements.
the 4 REGIONAL governors were to oversee the provinces in their regions, nothing more, nothing less


secondly, if you were old enough to have had the book '12 years of military rule" published by the daily times, you won't embarrass yourself here. an informed reader would laugh over the gross misinterpretation and dubious narratives you were projecting with your dawodu.com

you keep revising and regurgitating what you have stated earlier. no facts, just dawodu.com You still haven't disproved why other leaders didn't return to parliamentarianism but rather, did worse than ironsi.

I'm sure you intentionally skipped where "provinces/divisions" were typed in my post. I meant to state that these two terms connoted each other. so quit trying to be smart by half.

you said our refusal to allow herdsmen settle in the east is a testimony to your point that we weren't ripe for aguiyi's approach. We don't accommodate or acculturate criminals, it doesn't mean we cant acculturate honorable northerners, after all the former mayor of Enugu (capital of the eastern region) was a Fulani man.

by the way, having a lengthy post does not not on any imply brilliance or facts. you keep releasing garbage before and now. thank God public perception about ironsi is changing for the better. the lies against have be condoned for too long.

Your response above is a washout. I have told you that the contents of your Leadership Newspaper link is not Ironsi's national broadcast which is what we need to know whether he destroyed the regions and federal structure or not. How can you substitute an individual's personal opinion on Ironsi's person for Ironsi's verbatim national broadcast? Does that make sense at all?
You are the one embarrassing yourself by jumping from pillar to post rather than just providing us with a link to your own "authentic" version of Ironsi's May 24 1966 broadcast. What's my business with your"12 days of military rule" if it doesn't contain the broadcast in question?

You still haven't explained why Ironsi, Ojukwu and Nwabueze first ever tampered with our parliamentary system, so why do you think I should explain to you why Ironsi's successors did worse by your own personal perception?

The case of Enugu Mayor was a very rare occurrence as an overwhelming majority of Northerners were even back then irresponsible and blood thirsty hence were
already killing Igbos living with them in the North in large numbers....The 1945 and 1953 massacres of Igbos in Jos and Kano respectively were testimonials. Even the 1966 pogroms of Igbos right under Ironsi's nose as HoS should have been enough evidence for him that Nigeria wast ripe for his idea of national unity.

You still haven't answered me as per which part of the independence constitution Ironsi relied on to take power for himself and appoint military governors for the region hence the beginning of the whole trouble.

Exactly how and where do you put the dividing line between lengthiness and briefness of a post? You think your own post above is a brief one?

Deadlytruth:


Your response above is a washout. I have told you that the contents of your Leadership Newspaper link is not Ironsi's national broadcast which is what we need to know whether he destroyed the regions and federal structure or not. How can you substitute an individual's personal opinion on Ironsi's person for Ironsi's verbatim national broadcast? Does that make sense at all?
You are the one embarrassing yourself by jumping from pillar to post rather than just providing us with a link to your own "authentic" version of Ironsi's May 24 1966 broadcast. What's my business with your"12 days of military rule" if it doesn't contain the broadcast in question?

You still haven't explained why Ironsi, Ojukwu and Nwabueze first ever tampered with our parliamentary system, so why do you think I should explain to you why Ironsi's successors did worse by your own personal perception?

The case of Enugu Mayor was a very rare occurrence as an overwhelming majority of Northerners were even back then irresponsible and blood thirsty hence were
already killing Igbos living with them in the North in large numbers....The 1945 and 1953 massacres of Igbos in Jos and Kano respectively were testimonials. Even the 1966 pogroms of Igbos right under Ironsi's nose as HoS should have been enough evidence for him that Nigeria wast ripe for his idea of national unity.

You still haven't answered me as per which part of the independence constitution Ironsi relied on to take power for himself and appoint military governors for the region hence the beginning of the whole trouble.

Exactly how and where do you put the dividing line between lengthiness and briefness of a post? You think your own post above is a brief one?

Oga "12 years of military rule" contains the broadcasts of each military ruler along with local and foreign commentaries on their administrations. You never knew any better did you?

and yes, some northerners (not most of them) have been attacking the easterners since the 40s, but then Igbo were still living and working there believing perhaps that these attacks were temporary and that maybe one day those northerners would try to redeem themselves.

Leadership newspaper is not an Igbo tabloid outfit, but dawodu.com is unapologetically pro-arewa.

you bore me with tales. when you are ready to show me the provinces and their heads and their place in ironsi's cabinet, I will then take you serious.

superlightning:


[b]Oga "12 years of military rule" contains the broadcasts of each military ruler[/b]along with local and foreign commentaries on their administrations. You never knew any better did you?

So you mean you who know better can't just copy that book's "authentic" version of Ironsi's broadcast and paste it here for us to compare and contrast? Why refer me to a book to which you alone "have" access? It is like you are before a law court and in response to the presiding judge's demand for you to provide evidence to substantiate your statement of claim, you ask him to go and look for the evidence himself. Then that means you know it deep down in your heart that such evidence doesn't really exist. How can I, your opponent, be the one to help you search for evidence to advance your argument over mine? If there are no online versions of the book, why can't you take snapshots of the relevant page and upload them here?? You think you are talking to a kid? Honestly you are a clown.

superlightning:

and yes, some northerners (not most of them) have been attacking the easterners since the 40s, but then Igbo were still living and working there believing perhaps that these attacks were temporary and that maybe one day those northerners would try to redeem themselves.

At what point did it suddenly become clear to you Igbos that the attacks weren't actually temporary hence your decision to escape from the North and even seceed from Nigeria? Back then and today, most Northerners were advocating Shariah and total islamization of the country anidst their rejection of Western Education and belief that they were born to rule. Now, you mean you Igbos, despite your level of elightenment back then, were expecting such people to within few yeats later discard such deeply ingrained cultural philosophy? It is like US, after experiencing the World Trade Centre attack, continuing to assume that Arabians would with time become more civilized and rational hence avoid talking steps to put anti-terrorism measures in place, and even open the US borders wider to influx of Middle East immigrants. Would that have made sense? Why didn't the other southerners, e.g. Yorubas, Edos, Ijaws, Urhobos, Itsekiris, Efiks, Ibibios, etc share that hope with Igbos?

superlightning:

Leadership newspaper is not an Igbo tabloid outfit, but dawodu.com is unapologetically pro-arewa.

Leadership Newspaper is also owned by an Arewa man hence unapologetically pro Arewa by the same standards you appraise Dawodu.com.

superlightning:

you bore me with tales. when you are ready to show me the provinces and their heads and their place in ironsi's cabinet, I will then take you serious.

You bore me with conjectures. When you are ready to show me a link to your "authentic" version of Ironsi's May 24 1966 broadcast, then I will take you seriously.

I never knew ogunlewe is from South East.... This dirty people and lies

Deadlytruth:

So you mean you who know better can't just copy that book's "authentic" version of Ironsi's broadcast and paste it here for us to compare and contrast? Why refer me to a book to which you alone "have" access? It is like you are before a law court and in response to the presiding judge's demand for you to provide evidence to substantiate your statement of claim, you ask him to go and look for the evidence himself. Then that means you know it deep down in your heart that such evidence doesn't really exist. How can I, your opponent, be the one to help you search for evidence to advance your argument over mine? If there are no online versions of the book, why can't you take snapshots of the relevant page and upload them here?? You think you are talking to a kid? Honestly you are a clown.



At what point did it suddenly become clear to you Igbos that the attacks weren't actually temporary hence your decision to escape from the North and even seceed from Nigeria? Back then and today, most Northerners were advocating Shariah and total islamization of the country anidst their rejection of Western Education and belief that they were born to rule. Now, you mean you Igbos, despite your level of elightenment back then, were expecting such people to within few yeats later discard such deeply ingrained cultural philosophy? It is like US, after experiencing the World Trade Centre attack, continuing to assume that Arabians would with time become more civilized and rational hence avoid talking steps to put anti-terrorism measures in place, and even open the US borders wider to influx of Middle East immigrants. Would that have made sense? Why didn't the other southerners, e.g. Yorubas, Edos, Ijaws, Urhobos, Itsekiris, Efiks, Ibibios, etc share that hope with Igbos?


Leadership Newspaper is also owned by an Arewa man hence unapologetically pro Arewa by the same standards you appraise Dawodu.com.


You bore me with conjectures. When you are ready to show me a link to your "authentic" version of Ironsi's May 24 1966 broadcast, then I will take you seriously.

chai.... to think that I actually underrated your poor level of acumen.... pls forgive me, I admit, your poor level of acumen is high!

I won't discuss important issues with you any further.

superlightning:


chai.... to think that I actually underrated your poor level of acumen.... pls forgive me, I admit, your poor level of acumen is high!

I won't discuss important issues with you any further.

So the simple demand that you provide that your own "authentic" version of Ironsi's broadcast is what has led you into all these conjectures and a final face saving exit from a debate into which you came chestbeating and foaming at the mouth about being ready for me and going to expose my "lies"?
So this is how you ended it abruptly...... by running away just like that? You must have searched and searched through Google for a version of Ironsi's broadcast doctored to suit your preconceived truth but found none hence your decision to run away while saving face with the innuendoes above. Next time get your facts straight before you chestbeat that you will expose someone else's "lies".