Ohibenemma:
If you want my explanation on the above chapter, I'll be copy-pasting something very lengthy and WHICH HAS NOTHING TO DO with Muhammad.

You have this History of the World in PDF form? Please I'll like to read it too.

I can't readily cite any source at the moment, but you know that Muhammad promoted a supposedly Religion of Peace by the SWORD (Against both Christians and pagans). And like you've pointed out, his companions are guilty as charged.

And it has continued till date with those toeing his lead being termed extremists. Who's an extremist really?

It is true Mohammad drew his sword against Idolatry the same way Jehovah commanded Moses to draw his sword against those that made the Image of a Calf when they crossed the Red Sea. Read Exodus 32:25-28 KJV
[25] And when Moses saw that the people were naked; (for Aaron had made them naked unto their shame among their enemies [26] Then Moses stood in the gate of the camp, and said, Who is on the Lord's side? let him come unto me. And all the sons of Levi gathered themselves together unto him. [27] And he said unto them, Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbour. [28] And the children of Levi did according to the word of Moses: and there fell of the people that day about three thousand men.

It will interest you to know that Jesus also, drew that same sword against the The Jews. Read Luke 22:36 KJV
[36] Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it , and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

Unfortunately for Jesus, when the real trouble came, and he neede them most :Mark 14:50 KJV
[50] And they all forsook him, and fled.

Ohibenemma:
If you want my explanation on the above chapter, I'll be copy-pasting something very lengthy and WHICH HAS NOTHING TO DO with Muhammad.

You have this History of the World in PDF form? Please I'll like to read it too.

I can't readily cite any source at the moment, but you know that Muhammad promoted a supposedly Religion of Peace by the SWORD (Against both Christians and pagans). And like you've pointed out, his companions are guilty as charged.

And it has continued till date with those toeing his lead being termed extremists. Who's an extremist really?

Let me ask you, when Christ come back on his white horse to separate the Sheep from the Goats and take believers to heaven, him and his Angels, what would they do to the Hindus, Traditionalists, Muslims, atheists etc? He is going to give them another chance to mend their ways or just kill them all?

Lukuluku69:



It will interest you to know that Jesus also, drew that same sword against the The Jews. Read Luke 22:36 KJV
[36] Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it , and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

Unfortunately for Jesus, when the real trouble came, and he neede them most :Mark 14:50 KJV
[50] And they all forsook him, and fled.

Believe me, I admire your knowledge of the Bible. But I still maintain that you lack understanding of the Word judging from your interpretations of the Bible.

No matter how much you know of the Bible, without God's revelation through His Holy Spirit, you'll still remain blind to the Truth which the Bibles portrays.

Ohibenemma:
[s] I must however state, for the benefit of these wannabes, that the so-called Bible’s inconsistencies are only proofs of its diverseness and all-encompassing grasp, such that different directions and inspirations could apply in different situations. I could, but further-flogging this point could appear belabouring. And the carnal minded ones will not understand anyways.

Summarily, Christianity is in a world of her own and doesn’t need to be ratified by any other religion. Criticize the activities of some of our pastors, but that takes nothing away from the faith itself. When the Muslim is accused for the Islam-inspired terror rocking the world today, they point at the Christian crusaders of so many years ago. The crusaders may have given Christianity a bad name, but they were hardly any successful anyways and have been condemned by many true Christians till date. But I await the Muslim that will criticize Muhammad for the religio-political expeditionary conquests he personally led against pagans and Christians of his day (Let’s not forget Uthman Dan Fodio); so much for a RELIGION OF PEACE! I leave the Muslims with this verse from Matthew 7:5.“Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.”

[/s]
Peace.

Abeg SHUT UP!
Just see who is talking of not condemning their religious figures ...when you guys dance to the tune of how the walls of Jericho fell down flat...notwithstanding that it was a tale about genocide.

Lukuluku69:



I actually did that to show you the inconsistencies in the message as dictated by the "Holy Spirit" In Mathew Christ answered Matthew 16:17-18 KJV
[17] And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. [18] And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. But in Mark, he said Mark 8:29-30 KJV
[29] And he saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Peter answereth and saith unto him, Thou art the Christ. [30] And he charged them that they should tell no man of him. Why is he shy of his parentage and he charged them no to tell any man? The same "Holy Spirit" that made Mathew wrote in Matthew 4:18-19 KJV
[18] And Jesus, walking by the sea of Galilee, saw two brethren, Simon called Peter, and Andrew his brother, casting a net into the sea: for they were fishers. [19] And he saith unto them, Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men. It was the same Spirit that made Andrew a Disciple of John the Baptist in John 1-51. He was the one that made John the Baptist exclaimed: this is the Lamb of God that take away sin in John 1-51 yet made Mathew write in Matthew 11:2-4 KJV
[2] Now when John had heard in the prison the works of Christ, he sent two of his disciples, [3] And said unto him, Art thou he that should come, or do we look for another? [4] Jesus answered and said unto them, Go and shew John again those things which ye do hear and see: Has he forgot that he saw a Dove descend on him and a voice came from Heaven, saying this is my Son Luke 3:22 KJV
[22] And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.

Inconsistencies right? I have dwelt on that in my opening write-up. And the amazing thing is that they all add up and make great sense to the Christian believer. I've noticed that you've recently tended to dribble between narratives, failing to stick to any one. We are talking about the divinity of Jesus one minute and you're jumping to Biblical inconsistencies in narrative by the diverse authors of the Bible's books. Continue, sir. One moment, you claim it was Paul who started referring to to Jesus as the Son of God, another moment, you are arguing about something else.

You can pick Bible verses at random, but like many have already pointed out, only the Holy Spirit can give you the required interpretation. And I think this academic exercise will yield nothing cos it's between a Christian and a Muslim, with the latter carnally interpreting the letters.

Those books were written by different persons, with different cognitive, affective and psychomotor skills. If even Muhammad can rewrite already written Bible stories and give them Arabic colourings, how much more will there be inconsistencies in the observations and accounts by different persons?

You asked if the Holy Spirit sometimes forgot what he had earlier said. Funny question. Those were ORDINARY Accounts which the Spirit gives life when applied by a Christian.
The authors weren't visited by epileptic fits when they would fall to the ground, foam in the mouth and mutter incoherently before they penned them down.

Lukuluku69:


It is true Mohammad drew his sword against Idolatry the same way Jehovah commanded Moses to draw his sword against those that made the Image of a Calf when they crossed the Red Sea. Read Exodus 32:25-28 KJV
[25] And when Moses saw that the people were naked; (for Aaron had made them naked unto their shame among their enemies [26] Then Moses stood in the gate of the camp, and said, Who is on the Lord's side? let him come unto me. And all the sons of Levi gathered themselves together unto him. [27] And he said unto them, Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbour. [28] And the children of Levi did according to the word of Moses: and there fell of the people that day about three thousand men.

It will interest you to know that Jesus also, drew that same sword against the The Jews. Read Luke 22:36 KJV
[36] Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it , and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

Unfortunately for Jesus, when the real trouble came, and he neede them most :Mark 14:50 KJV
[50] And they all forsook him, and fled.

Moses' was a physical sword. I have already painstakingly explained the transition from LAW to GRACE, and won't be doing so again. A word is enough for the wise. But Jesus speaking wasn't referring to a physical sword. The ONLY time his disciple drew a sword was in the garden of Gethsemane. The sword wasn't even Peter's. We see Jesus' reaction to Peter's rashness. I can't explain more to the carnal minded. I need to sleep now... Church bells will ring soon...

Ohibenemma:
Moses' was a physical sword. I have already painstakingly explained the transition from LAW to GRACE, and won't be doing so again. A word is enough for the wise. But Jesus speaking wasn't referring to a physical sword. The ONLY time his disciple drew a sword was in the garden of Gethsemane. The sword wasn't even Peter's. We see Jesus' reaction to Peter's rashness. I can't explain more to the carnal minded. I need to sleep now... Church bells will ring soon...

Moses Sword was Physical but Jesus speaking wasn't referring Physical Sword you say? Hmmm. Do you really read your Bible or you just believe in what the establishment want you to believe. Please read this again Luke 22:36-38 KJV
[36] Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it , and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. [37] For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end. [38] And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough. It is this same sword that Peter used and loop off someone ear!

The Meek and Lamb of God who came to offer his life for the ransom of many is said his disciples should sell their garments and by Swords and his disciples said Master, Lord here are TWO SWORDS. And Jesus said unto them " it is enough"!

And here you are blaming on Muhammad Sword! I can understand your ignorance but to cloud it in sophistry is distasteful. What most Christians don't understand is that among all personage sent with messages by God, there are those who came with a Message to warn alone, some came to warn and punish at the same time. Some are sent a single soul, some to their family, some to their Nation etc.

Jesus, my friend was sent to the Nation of Israel for them to mend their ways and patiently await the coming Kingdom of God. How do I know? It is in the Bible. read Matthew 15:22-24 KJV
[22] And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil. [23] But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us. [24] But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

And when he sent the Twelve out, his specific instruction was: Matthew 10:5-7 KJV
[5] These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: [6] But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. [7] And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Who are the lost sheep? Israel is made up of Twelve Tribes( the Twelve sons of Jacob, this also put a lie to your claim that Ishmael can't be heir with Isaac, because of the twelve son, 8 or 7 of them were sons from maids of Leah and Her Sister that Jacob married). After the reign of Solomon, 10 Tribes broke away while that of Judah and Benjamin were fused together owing to the fact that Judah were more than the Benjamin tribe there by forming Judea. The remaining 10 that broke away to form the Northern Nation of Israel. This Northern Nation warred with the Chaldeans and were carried away and have been forever lost. Nobody seems to know where they are.

The account you read in Israel during Jesus time only pertains to Judea hence Jesus always address Jews!

So, Jesus job was to bring about the mending of ways of the stiff necked Jews and at the same time find the Lost Tribes and give them the good News of the coming of kingdom of God which is at hand!

I can give you dozens of references to this effect. Counting Jesus direct allusion to this coming Kingdom of God, I counted 54 references alone! Not minding that it also the same as Kingdom of Heaven! Do you know why? The Jews during Jesus time cringes at mention God, they rather say "Heavens" than say "God". So, any where you see Kingdom of God know you that it is a Greek hand writing and when you see Heaven, it is a Jewish hand.

UceeGod:



Believe me, I admire your knowledge of the Bible. But I still maintain that you lack understanding of the Word judging from your interpretations of the Bible.

No matter how much you know of the Bible, without God's revelation through His Holy Spirit, you'll still remain blind to the Truth which the Bibles portrays.

I have not even expound 1/100,000 I know about the Bible and you are already wowed! You see the Bible is an Eastern Book. Written is the lore of the Hebrew/Aramaic Languages/Tongues but most interpreters and expounders are Greek, Roman, and Westerners. Carnal minded people.
My brother, the only BLIND People are those that forget this background and go after the Letter and not the sense in the Messages. If you won't mind, me and you can go on a Voyage. At the end, the amazement that would be yours will be beyond words!

Deal?

[quote author=Lukuluku69 post=76563368... So, any where you see Kingdom of God know you that it is a Greek hand writing and when you see Heaven, it is a Jewish hand.

[/quote]

Concerning the swords contention, I give it to you. I should have done a little research rather than replying off the cuff and half-sleepy.

Luke 22:36-38 (KJV) Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.
And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.

But now that you've pointed it out, I will give this response. You claim Jesus was set for war, yet only TWO swords were enough? And he didn't even carry one? I am busy right now or might have done some more research before giving a response. But I can state categorically that those were never meant to be weapons of the offensive. Not when Jesus KNEW THAT HE WAS AT THE TWILIGHT OF HIS MISSION. Reading on, you stated how Peter eventually put one of those two swords to use. What was the reaction of the Jesus you are equating with a war mongering Muhammad? Then in Matthew's account of that scene, we see the highly instructive words...

Matthew 26:52-54 (KJV) Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.
Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?
But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?

All they that take the sword shall perish by the sword

Does that sound like the words of a war monger?

Now, you've jumped ship again, moving into who (you think) Jesus was sent to. Why do you keep on changing the narrative. What relationship has that gotten to do with the topic that Islam has gotten no basis for being a Benchmark for ascertaining true Christianity?

Over and over again, you've dribbled back and forth, so much I think I should stop this argument. If you must react, react to the issues raised in the original article. Maybe you've forgotten, the summary of that was/and is that Christianity doesn't consider Islam worthy of any form relationship in the first place for the latter to start viewing herself as a standard for the former.

If all you can find to relate the founder of an ISLAM which CLAIMS TO BE OF PEACE, yet expanded by wars and conquests by same founder and his successors, kills and maims opposing faith adherents till date, engages in terrorism and what have you; with the Lord of Christians is his instruction to his disciples to buy swords (probably for self defence after his exit) with the rider that TWO PIECES were enough, IS LUKE 22:36-38, then I can't help you.

[quote author=Ohibenemma post=76570076][/quote]

I am glad you agreed that PHYSICAL SWORDS were involved. Now, to the question of what would Christ have done with TWO SWORDS since his MISSION is coming to an end. The question rather should be: Why did he ordered for SWORDS in the first instance? Christ knew he was going to be arrested what he did not reckon was that the Jews will involve the Roman Authority. The Jews? He was sure that he will knock some sense into them but the Roman Soldiery? His Twelve sleepy eye Disciples can't hand.

Remember, he had single handedly sent them out of the Temple with a Whip and overturn their Trading Tables and all that. You see, when the Roman Soldier came, strategy had to change. If you take time out to read the Bible very well, you will notice that at Gethsamane, only the two with the SWORDS Jesus placed in the Inner Chambers of that Garden. He told the other unharmed Disciples to Matthew 26:36-37 KJV Then cometh Jesus with them unto a place called Gethsemane, and saith unto the disciples, Sit ye here, while I go and pray yonder. And he took Peter and the Two Sons of Zededee as they say inside inside! [37] And he took with him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, and began to be sorrowful and very heavy.

If truly, he came to die for Our Sins, why is he defending his arrest? Don't tell me the human Nature in him took over, because their has been a Contract between him and his Father before the Foundation of the World was laid!

So, why was he afraid to fulfill that Contract? There are Millions of people in the world today, who would gladly die for anyone, for a Cause, For Country without thinking twice and to think that Jesus would have his life back in Three days after he died makes the whole story somehow.

I am sorry if I digress too much, I will try and limit my responses to what you post or what the Thread was meant to treat.

Shaloam Alaikum.

[quote author=Ohibenemma post=76570076][/quote]

All they that take the sword shall perish by the sword. Plus you said Muhammad was a War Monger? Moses, David, Abraham, Solomon, all took by SWORDS, did they PERISH by it too? David even wrote in the Psalms : Psalm 18:34 KJV
[34] He teacheth my hands to war, so that a bow of steel is broken by mine arms.

God Himself TAUGHT David hands to War! If I ask you now, since they are Jews, it doesn't matter, God commanded it but of it is Muhammad that won't be the case, how do you judge?

You have been a Sport tho', all along I thought I was having a conversation with someone grounded in the Scriptures.

So long Mate!

Lukuluku69:



So, why was he afraid to fulfill that Contract? There are Millions of people in the world today, who would gladly die for anyone.

Funny presumption you make here. Really funny. In your orientation, Jesus considered the Jews cowards? I don't, and I'm sure the Muslim world doesn't even till date. So He thought only two swords were sufficient to fight a rampaging mob? To fight off the same Jews who would later become so deadly that they only needed to know where the Christian was, to stone him to death?

Peter had always been a leader figure amongst the disciples. It wasn't out of place that he would be one of those accompanying his master at this trying hour - he and THE TWO SONS OF ZEBEDEE. Being as versed as you claim to be, you would know that one of these two was Jesus' BELOVED. And to answer your costly assumption, were The THREE DISCIPLES to share the two swords? How does that work?

Jesus KNEW what was to befall Him, yet He waited for the Jews where He could be found? Won't it have profited Him more to go into hiding. That His heart was heavy is in no doubt, you decided to preempt and deride the reason for this: it doesn't change anything. He was determined however to do the Father's will.

Many may die for a cause, but I'm sure humanly speaking, they would wish there was another means that wouldn't require them losing their lives. Ask Fela, Nelson Mandela, etc.

Now, how does this make Islam a standard for Christianity?

Lukuluku69:


All they that take the sword shall perish by the sword. Plus you said Muhammad was a War Monger? Moses, David, Abraham, Solomon, all took by SWORDS, did they PERISH by it too? David even wrote in the Psalms : Psalm 18:34 KJV
[34] He teacheth my hands to war, so that a bow of steel is broken by mine arms.

God Himself TAUGHT David hands to War! If I ask you now, since they are Jews, it doesn't matter, God commanded it but of it is Muhammad that won't be the case, how do you judge?

You have been a Sport tho', all along I thought I was having a conversation with someone grounded in the Scriptures.

So long Mate!

Abraham, Moses, David and Solomon all took by the sword. True. But these were all political leaders(the latter three especially) and political battles, too.

Muhammad taking the sword is abnormal, especially for these two reasons:
1. He used the sword to prosecute SPIRITUAL battles which his God should be able to fight. (Funny enough, it's still the case till date)

2. It makes his very message a convolution of conflicts. How do you propagate a message of PEACE by UNENDING WARFARE yet want to force people to accept it in that light? It's the same practice by politicians going about with gun totting and machete brandishing thugs, yet claiming to be committed to peaceful elections. Only fools will as much as listen to such, let alone believe them.

Ohibenemma:


Funny presumption you make here. Really funny. In your orientation, Jesus considered the Jews cowards? I don't, and I'm sure the Muslim world doesn't even till date. So He thought only two swords were sufficient to fight a rampaging mob? To fight off the same Jews who would later become so deadly that they only needed to know where the Christian was, to stone him to death?

Peter had always been a leader figure amongst the disciples. It wasn't out of place that he would be one of those accompanying his master at this trying hour - he and THE TWO SONS OF ZEBEDEE. Being as versed as you claim to be, you would know that one of these two was Jesus' BELOVED. And to answer your costly assumption, were The THREE DISCIPLES to share the two swords? How does that work?

Jesus KNEW what was to befall Him, yet He waited for the Jews where He could be found? Won't it have profited Him more to go into hiding. That His heart was heavy is in no doubt, you decided to preempt and deride the reason for this: it doesn't change anything. He was determined however to do the Father's will.

Many may die for a cause, but I'm sure humanly speaking, they would wish there was another means that wouldn't require them losing their lives. Ask Fela, Nelson Mandela, etc.

Now, how does this make Islam a standard for Christianity?

I entered this post of yours when you mentioned Muslims and Islam. That's why I feel it is my duty to say a word or two.

The Jews, how many were they when Jesus whipped them at the Temple? The Jews to be sure were not cowards in the past nor now but please tell me, why did they come with Roman Soldiers to arrest Jesus? From the Gospel narratives, Jesus never went against any Roman Law: He asked Jews to pay Taxes, he never show any pretense to the Office that Pilate occupies. So, why did the Jews brought Roman Soldiers to arrest him? If not that these wily Jews are cowards?

And the Jews have the Muslim world to thank ETERNALLY for the Liberation of the Holy Lands. Something they could not do for 700 years! The Muslim did in less than 20 years after Muhammad preached in Mecca.

Jesus knew what would befall him? It still doesn't make any sense, he came to die for the sin of the world, how come it, that he went into hiding? He ordered for SWORDS to defend himself? On his march on Jerusalem, he could have offer himself to the High Priest and the Sacrifice will be done with.

My friend, Truth only comes from God, that story is a lie.

Islam is the standard for verification of any Faith! Please take Prophet Jeremiah oracle/advice to Israel
Jeremiah 2:8-12 KJV
[8] The priests said not, Where is the Lord ? and they that handle the law knew me not: the pastors also transgressed against me, and the prophets prophesied by Baal, and walked after things that do not profit.
[9] Wherefore I will yet plead with you, saith the Lord , and with your children's children will I plead.
[10] For pass over the isles of Chittim, and see; and send unto Kedar, and consider diligently, and see if there be such a thing.
[11] Hath a nation changed their gods, which are yet no gods? but my people have changed their glory for that which doth not profit.
[12] Be astonished, O ye heavens, at this, and be horribly afraid, be ye very desolate, saith the Lord .

Verse 10 and 11 is the key to understanding the oracle.

Shaloam Alaikum

N.B. Jesus knew he was going to have his life back after 3 Days, Mandela, Fela etc never had that assurance!

Ohibenemma:


Abraham, Moses, David and Solomon all took by the sword. True. But these were all political leaders(the latter three especially) and political battles, too.

Muhammad taking the sword is abnormal, especially for these two reasons:
1. He used the sword to prosecute SPIRITUAL battles which his God should be able to fight. (Funny enough, it's still the case till date)

2. It makes his very message a convolution of conflicts. How do you propagate a message of PEACE by UNENDING WARFARE yet want to force people to accept it in that light? It's the same practice by politicians going about with gun totting and machete brandishing thugs, yet claiming to be committed to peaceful elections. Only fools will as much as listen to such, let alone believe them.

Abraham never was a Political Figure! He was a Nomad. David ruled Israel, same for Moses and Solomon and for you to assume that Muhammad was NEVER a Political Figure is deceitful. Muhammad RULED the whole of ARABIA called Wilderness in the Bible and some other place Padan-Aram.

You Muhammad used Sword to fight SPIRITUAL battle which his God should be able to fight? So, Moses, David, Solomon God can't do the same?

You see the problem with Christians is that in dressing Jesus with a garb that is not his, you guys failed to know that Prophets came with different Messages/Mandates. Some Prophets WARN ONLY. Some can WARN AND PUNISH. Jesus fall into the First category. Muhammad, Moses, David, Solomon the latter group. The First group can WARN, CURSE but not the MANDATE to PUNISH.

Understand ye?

Lukuluku69:


I entered this post of yours when you mentioned Muslims and Islam. That's why I feel it is my duty to say a word or two.

The Jews, how many were they when Jesus whipped them at the Temple? The Jews to be sure were not cowards in the past nor now but please tell me, why did they come with Roman Soldiers to arrest Jesus? From the Gospel narratives, Jesus never went against any Roman Law: He asked Jews to pay Taxes, he never show any pretense to the Office that Pilate occupies. So, why did the Jews brought Roman Soldiers to arrest him? If not that these wily Jews are cowards?

And the Jews have the Muslim world to thank ETERNALLY for the Liberation of the Holy Lands. Something they could not do for 700 years! The Muslim did in less than 20 years after Muhammad preached in Mecca.

Jesus knew what would befall him? It still doesn't make any sense, he came to die for the sin of the world, how come it, that he went into hiding? He ordered for SWORDS to defend himself? On his march on Jerusalem, he could have offer himself to the High Priest and the Sacrifice will be done with.

My friend, Truth only comes from God, that story is a lie.

Islam is the standard for verification of any Faith! Please take Prophet Jeremiah oracle/advice to Israel
Jeremiah 2:8-12 KJV
[8] The priests said not, Where is the Lord ? and they that handle the law knew me not: the pastors also transgressed against me, and the prophets prophesied by Baal, and walked after things that do not profit.
[9] Wherefore I will yet plead with you, saith the Lord , and with your children's children will I plead.
[10] For pass over the isles of Chittim, and see; and send unto Kedar, and consider diligently, and see if there be such a thing.
[11] Hath a nation changed their gods, which are yet no gods? but my people have changed their glory for that which doth not profit.
[12] Be astonished, O ye heavens, at this, and be horribly afraid, be ye very desolate, saith the Lord .

Verse 10 and 11 is the key to understanding the oracle.

Shaloam Alaikum

N.B. Jesus knew he was going to have his life back after 3 Days, Mandela, Fela etc never had that assurance!

Initially, you said anyone can die for a cause, I made it clear to you that it wasn't a done and dusted claim, as many who claimed to were the very same ones who expressed their wish to achieve THE CAUSE in a way that they would still have their lives intact. Now, it's about knowing He will resurrect again. Jesus had to be grieved about His impending death, not only because of His life, but because it will signal an END to a ministry He had been involved with all His life. That's very human, sir.

And He didn't go into hiding, neither did He require 3 disciples with two swords ONLY to defend Him. Twist it as you may! He was in the Garden, seeking God's face, yet aware of every sequence.

If, as you claim, He so required them to protect Him, what was His reaction the third time he came around and met them sleeping? Your Bible probably doesn't include that part...

Matthew 26:43-46 (KJV) And he came and found them asleep again: for their eyes were heavy.
And he left them, and went away again, and prayed the third time, saying the same words.
Then cometh he to his disciples, and saith unto them, Sleep on now, and take your rest: behold, the hour is at hand, and the Son of man is betrayed into the hands of sinners.
Rise, let us be going: behold, he is at hand that doth betray me.

He should have gone to the High Priest and offered Himself up? In fulfilment of which scriptures; the Koran?

That the Jews have the Muslim world to thank is another funny one. The same Muslim world that is eternally desperate to Rob them of their homeland

Islam is nobody's verification. She needs to first VERIFY HER PEACEFUL CLAIM before even venturing as much as peeking out. When you've done that, we may have a discussion on the way forward.

Lukuluku69:


Abraham never was a Political Figure! He was a Nomad. David ruled Israel, same for Moses and Solomon and for you to assume that Muhammad was NEVER a Political Figure is deceitful. Muhammad RULED the whole of ARABIA called Wilderness in the Bible and some other place Padan-Aram.

You Muhammad used Sword to fight SPIRITUAL battle which his God should be able to fight? So, Moses, David, Solomon God can't do the same?

You see the problem with Christians is that in dressing Jesus with a garb that is not his, you guys failed to know that Prophets came with different Messages/Mandates. Some Prophets WARN ONLY. Some can WARN AND PUNISH. Jesus fall into the First category. Muhammad, Moses, David, Solomon the latter group. The First group can WARN, CURSE but not the MANDATE to PUNISH.

Understand ye?

Firstly, the point has been restated here already that YOUR prophets ain't our prophets. David and Solomon were Kings, not prophets. Why is that so difficult for you to take? You may continue garbing them up as prophets when with your Islamic brethren.

Back to the issue, I stated up there that the first 3 especially, which excluded Abraham. Yes, Abraham was a nomad in a land obviously under no strong political setup, but that is by the way. Did he use the sword to FORCE PEOPLE TO SERVE HIS GOD? Why was and is that the wont of Muhammad/Islam till date?

So Your God instructed Muhammad to take up the rulership of Arabia to warn and punish the whole world Warn and punish indeed. By going on murderous rampages And isn't it laughable that you now equate Muhammad with David And Solomon? Must you seek out at random ANYBODY to justify the inordinate proclivities of Your most holy prophet?

We are CHRISTIANS, not Davidstains or Mosestains. Comprehend?

Peace.

Ohibenemma:
Initially, you said anyone can die for a cause, I made it clear to you that it wasn't a done and dusted claim, as many who claimed to were the very same ones who expressed their wish to achieve THE CAUSE in a way that they would still have their lives intact. Now, it's about knowing He will resurrect again. Jesus had to be grieved about His impending death, not only because of His life, but because it will signal an END to a ministry He had been involved with all His life. That's very human, sir.

And He didn't go into hiding, neither did He require 3 disciples with two swords ONLY to defend Him. Twist it as you may! He was in the Garden, seeking God's face, yet aware of every sequence.

If, as you claim, He so required them to protect Him, what was His reaction the third time he came around and met them sleeping? Your Bible probably doesn't include that part...

Matthew 26:43-46 (KJV) And he came and found them asleep again: for their eyes were heavy.
And he left them, and went away again, and prayed the third time, saying the same words.
Then cometh he to his disciples, and saith unto them, Sleep on now, and take your rest: behold, the hour is at hand, and the Son of man is betrayed into the hands of sinners.
Rise, let us be going: behold, he is at hand that doth betray me.

He should have gone to the High Priest and offered Himself up? In fulfilment of which scriptures; the Koran?

That the Jews have the Muslim world to thank is another funny one. The same Muslim world that is eternally desperate to Rob them of their homeland

Islam is nobody's verification. She needs to first VERIFY HER PEACEFUL CLAIM before even venturing as much as peeking out. When you've done that, we may have a discussion on the way forward.

Jesus knowing of his impending death, as such he needed to grieve because as you said, it is only HUMAN, is he the a Human and not a god according to the many heresies that is in Christendom?

You seems not to get my point on the supposed Sacrifice Jesus came to offer for the World. If that is the case, God choose a wrong Lamb. This Lamb never wanted to die! Check out his prayers in that Garden!

Matthew 26:39 KJV
[39] And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt .

Matthew 26:42 KJV
[42] He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done.

Look at all the prayers! It is like saying " God please don't let me die, don't let them kill me! And he was in hiding and made an order for arming and to recap, they told him "Here are TWO SWORDS" and he said "It is enough" to be sure, you will notice that it was the ear of High Priest that was smote off. That is to show you that with the Jews, Jesus knew he will always beat them silly.

"Then cometh he to his disciples, and saith unto them, Sleep on now, and take your rest: behold, the hour is at hand, and the Son of man is betrayed into the hands of sinners" Jesus simply says here, you guys are worthless, take your sleep now, you guys can't even WATCH (read be ON GUARD) for an hour and you ALL slept off.

Yes and I repeat the Jews have the Muslim World in ETERNAL gratitude for the Liberation of the Holy Land. A feat the Jews did not achieve in over 700 Years of trying. In less than 20 years after Muhammad preached the Holy Land was liberated and not only that the Temple that has been in ruin for 500 years and turned into a Garbage site was cleaned and another Temple was erected by the Muslims. The Mosque erected then is still standing 1,400 years after. Can you say the same for the Jewish Temple? There is a Book on the Net called The Book of Enoch, find time to read it. This Prophecy is in it (It is one of the Books the Council of Nicene threw out, though Jude quoted from it Jude 1:14 KJV And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, and so does Moses Deuteronomy 33:2 KJV And he said, The Lord came from Sinai, and rose up from Seir unto them; he shined forth from mount Paran, and he came with ten thousands of saints: from his right hand went a fiery law for them. Download and read and you will get a better perspective on Islam.

The a muslim world want to rob the Jews of this Temple and Land? You Christians say the funny things ever! The same land Christian Rome and Greeks banished them from? The same Temple Greeks turned into a Dumpsite? Another fact, you guys are missing out, is the fact that the ARABS and JEWS are COUSINS. They have the same right the Jews have on that Land. They both are Children of Abraham.

My friend, there is a book on the Net, the Title is History of The Church. Download and read. It will do you a whole lot of good. I will get you the Author's name in my next post.

Muhammad came with a RENEWED call for the Faith of Abraham, that of Moses, David and ALL other inspired Messengers. He had the MANDATE to WARN and PUNISH. When you PUNISH, it only means some people erred and needed to take CORRECTION.

Ohibenemma:
Firstly, the point has been restated here already that YOUR prophets ain't our prophets. David and Solomon were Kings, not prophets. Why is that so difficult for you to take? You may continue garbing them up as prophets when with your Islamic brethren.

Back to the issue, I stated up there that the first 3 especially, which excluded Abraham. Yes, Abraham was a nomad in a land obviously under no strong political setup, but that is by the way. Did he use the sword to FORCE PEOPLE TO SERVE HIS GOD? Why was and is that the wont of Muhammad/Islam till date?

So Your God instructed Muhammad to take up the rulership of Arabia to warn and punish the whole world Warn and punish indeed. By going on murderous rampages And isn't it laughable that you now equate Muhammad with David And Solomon? Must you seek out at random ANYBODY to justify the inordinate proclivities of Your most holy prophet?

We are CHRISTIANS, not Davidstains or Mosestains. Comprehend?

Peace.

Abraham couldn't have used the Sword to FORCE people to God's worship. He has no such MANDATE. Did Moses ordered the killings of Calf Worshippers? Yes he did. What do you call that? If you worship any Image in this Territory, the Penalty is DEATH. In fact, he ordered the stoning to Death of Sabbath breakers. Muhammad as a matter of self defense fought with Meccan Image Worshippers: Christian Logic. Moses was in the Right but Muhammad is wrong!

Good to hear you say, David and Solomon were not Prophets but Kings! The things Christians say most time! The Jews says they are ( their primary constituency). A Christian want me to believe otherwise. You use the word funny a lot. My, friend that is definition of funny.

Random ANYBODY? David and Solomon are not RANDOM guys. You see, my friend long after David ruled over Israel, Ezekiel prophesied the coming of another David. Read Ezekiel 34:20-25 KJV
[20] Therefore thus saith the Lord God unto them; Behold, I, even I, will judge between the fat cattle and between the lean cattle. [21] Because ye have thrust with side and with shoulder, and pushed all the diseased with your horns, till ye have scattered them abroad; [22] Therefore will I save my flock, and they shall no more be a prey; and I will judge between cattle and cattle. [23] And I will set up one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them, even my servant David; he shall feed them, and he shall be their shepherd. [24] And I the Lord will be their God, and my servant David a prince among them; I the Lord have spoken it . [25] And I will make with them a covenant of peace, and will cause the evil beasts to cease out of the land: and they shall dwell safely in the wilderness, and sleep in the woods.

My comparison of David and Muhammad is rooted in that Book you have probably carried all the days of your life but couldn't not give any meaning to what it contains.

From the above, does it mean David will come a second time? The above oracle was done some 400 years after David ruled and passed on. You see, that "David" is the same that Isaiah prophesied in Isaiah 55:3-5 KJV
[3] Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David. [4] Behold, I have given him for a witness to the people, a leader and commander to the people. [5] Behold, thou shalt call a nation that thou knowest not, and nations that knew not thee shall run unto thee because of the Lord thy God, and for the Holy One of Israel; for he hath glorified thee.

I know what over a Thousand years of being fed with a particular Narrative can do to the Brain. Wean yourself of all that narrative. Unlearn them and relearn many things.

Islam is that Nation that run unto thee because of The Lord thy God.

N.B. I know you are not Davidisians, Mosesians of course, but when it suit a Narrative you will easily align with them and oh you are not Abrahamians too, but you have been forever saying his blessings are yours! Abi?

The Muslim fixation on a book they claim holds no relevance is (I say it again) funny. Why would you guys spend so much time that could have been spent on other useful things, poring over an 'irrelevant' book and mischievously appropriating its prophecies to yourselves while at the same time discarding whatever you think undermines you or your prophet.

Funny enough, I don't know the Jewish perspective on the prophetic tag to David and co (I'll research that). That must explain where Muhammad borrowed that idea from. But to Christians, one of which I am, HE IS NO PROPHET.

That said, let me address this aspect of your arguments once and for all: you've repeatedly stated that why should corporal punishment be right for Moses and bad for Muhammad? The answer is simple - with Jesus, we had moved from the Law to Grace. I don't expect a Muhammedan to understand that, but what can I do. Same way, you don't see Christians making animal sacrifice anymore because Jesus had been sacrificed once and forever. Now Muhammad and his followers think we should regress I say to you, No.

Abraham's blessings are of course mine.

And you seem ignorant of this: our Christian walk isn't an alignment with the Jews and Christianity ain't Judaism. Maybe you guys may align with Jews. Christians are in a league of our own.

Make una no claim relationship at all

Ohibenemma:
The Muslim fixation on a book they claim holds no relevance is (I say it again) funny. Why would you guys spend so much time that could have been spent on other useful things, poring over an 'irrelevant' book and mischievously appropriating its prophecies to yourselves while at the same time discarding whatever you think undermines you or your prophet.

Funny enough, I don't know the Jewish perspective on the prophetic tag to David and co (I'll research that). That must explain where Muhammad borrowed that idea from. But to Christians, one of which I am, HE IS NO PROPHET.

That said, let me address this aspect of your arguments once and for all: you've repeatedly stated that why should corporal punishment be right for Moses and bad for Muhammad? The answer is simple - [b]with Jesus, we had moved from the Law to Grace. I don't expect a Muhammedan to understand that, but what can I do. Same way, you don't see Christians making animal sacrifice anymore because Jesus had been sacrificed once and forever. Now Muhammad and his followers think we should regress I say to you, No.
[/b]
Abraham's blessings are of course mine.

And you seem ignorant of this: our Christian walk isn't an alignment with the Jews and Christianity ain't Judaism. Maybe you guys may align with Jews. Christians are in a league of our own.

Make una no claim relationship at all

You guys are living a lie. Paul's lie about GRACE. Una eye go clear when you come to God's Judgement. GRACE abi? Keep at it. Like I said, I don't barge in on Posts, you mentioned Islam and Muslims that's why I am here.

You want salvationMark 10:17-21 KJV
[17] And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life? [18] And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is , God. [19] Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother. [20] And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth. [21] Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.
?
The Blood of no man will take you no where. Stop believing that heresy Paul taught. And lest I forget, what transpired between us on Nairaland will be a WITNESS for or against us on Judgement Day.

Peace.

Lukuluku69:


You guys are living a lie. Paul's lie about GRACE. Una eye go clear when you come to God's Judgement. GRACE abi? Keep at it. Like I said, I don't barge in on Posts, you mentioned Islam and Muslims that's why I am here.

You want salvationMark 10:17-21 KJV
[17] And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life? [18] And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is , God. [19] Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother. [20] And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth. [21] Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.
?
The Blood of no man will take you no where. Stop believing that heresy Paul taught. And lest I forget, what transpired between us on Nairaland will be a WITNESS for or against us on Judgement Day.

Peace.

This has been your most emotional post so far, but it changes nothing. And it's only a continuum of the Muslim view you've peddled all along. But I know your emotions are being expended on a false premise. Why?

John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.


I feel equally emotional that millions of religious people are in the world, and following self-glorifying leaders. I feel emotional that people who claim to be of peace are characterised by anything but peace; I feel emotional that many have heaven in mind yet are going about it the wrong way. The ONLY WAY is Jesus; many like you discovered this through divine revelation after railing against the text for many years. On the judgement day, this same Jesus will be there.

Paul was a Jew to the core, one who was lettered and highly intelligent (like many Muslims are today). He supported his faith vigorously and fanatically, and couldn't have been approached let alone preached to. Except such a person wanted to die. But he got his conversion through divine revelation. He also pursued this new cause with equal, if not more conviction - same thing we usually see with converted Muslims. Don't hate him; most of his views were divinely inspired.

Ohibenemma:
This has been your most emotional post so far, but it changes nothing. And it's only a continuum of the Muslim view you've peddled all along. But I know your emotions are being expended on a false premise. Why?

John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.


I feel equally emotional that millions of religious people are in the world, and following self-glorifying leaders. I feel emotional that people who claim to be of peace are characterised by anything but peace; I feel emotional that many have heaven in mind yet are going about it the wrong way. The ONLY WAY is Jesus; many like you discovered this through divine revelation after railing against the text for many years. On the judgement day, this same Jesus will be there.

Paul was a Jew to the core, one who was lettered and highly intelligent (like many Muslims are today). He supported his faith vigorously and fanatically, and couldn't have been approached let alone preached to. Except such a person wanted to die. But he got his conversion through divine revelation. He also pursued this new cause with equal, if not more conviction - same thing we usually see with converted Muslims. Don't hate him; most of his views were divinely inspired.

My most emotional post? How so? Because I said, what transpired here will be a WITNESS on Judgement Day? You are funny. Truly funny.

I am expending my energy on a false premise? Well, I say the same to you! The Blood of no one takes you any where. Your Righteousness is on you, whatever Good you do here, it is for your own soul benefit, not mine.

The one you call Paul is a Liar and a Corrupter of the Noble Message of The Nazarene Prophet. None of his view is divinely inspired but he was all along cribbing from the Writings of Barnabas, the Son of Consolation.

Paul spoke about Jesus and wrote many things about him yet, he only Quoted Jesus twice in like 17 Letters or so he wrote! How can you be telling my story and you never alluded to my words?

Paul was

Lukuluku69:


My most emotional post? How so? Because I said, what transpired here will be a WITNESS on Judgement Day? You are funny. Truly funny.

I am expending my energy on a false premise? Well, I say the same to you! The Blood of no one takes you any where. Your Righteousness is on you, whatever Good you do here, it is for your own soul benefit, not mine.

The one you call Paul is a Liar and a Corrupter of the Noble Message of The Nazarene Prophet. None of his view is divinely inspired but he was all along cribbing from the Writings of Barnabas, the Son of Consolation.

Paul spoke about Jesus and wrote many things about him yet, he only Quoted Jesus twice in like 17 Letters or so he wrote! How can you be telling my story and you never alluded to my words?

So Paul isn't a prophet too? You make me laugh. On the day of judgement, we'll know who's saying the truth. Prophet Isaiah, that you've quoted several times said this of Jesus:

Isaiah 53:5 (KJV) But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

Paul was passionate for the wrong cause for most of his life, but after his divine encounter with the Truth (Jesus), he pursued his new found conviction with equal passion. He stole from the writings of Barnabas? You have more authority than I on that claim.

The Nazarene Prophet said this Himself:

John 14:9
Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

Was He a corrupter of His own message too?
In response to your likes on his divine nature, the Nazarene Prophet said this too:

Matthew 9:2-6 (KJV) And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee.
And, behold, certain of the scribes said within themselves, This man blasphemeth.
And Jesus knowing their thoughts said, Wherefore think ye evil in your hearts?
For whether is easier, to say, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and walk?
But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house.


Yet you Muslims are bent on undermining Him at every opportunity you get, using the Bible at that!


I pray you see the Light before it is too late for the Bible says:

Proverbs 16:25
There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.


You think you're being passionate for the right cause, but...

Ohibenemma:
Paul was So Paul isn't a prophet too? You make me laugh. On the day of judgement, we'll know who's saying the truth. Prophet Isaiah, that you've quoted several times said this of Jesus:

Isaiah 53:5 (KJV) But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

Paul was passionate for the wrong cause for most of his life, but after his divine encounter with the Truth (Jesus), he pursued his new found conviction with equal passion. He stole from the writings of Barnabas? You have more authority than I on that claim.

The Nazarene Prophet said this Himself:

John 14:9
Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

Was He a corrupter of His own message too?
In response to your likes on his divine nature, the Nazarene Prophet said this too:

Matthew 9:2-6 (KJV) And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee.
And, behold, certain of the scribes said within themselves, This man blasphemeth.
And Jesus knowing their thoughts said, Wherefore think ye evil in your hearts?
For whether is easier, to say, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and walk?
But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house.


Yet you Muslims are bent on undermining Him at every opportunity you get, using the Bible at that!


I pray you see the Light before it is too late for the Bible says:

Proverbs 16:25
There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.


You think you're being passionate for the right cause, but...

So, Paul was a Prophet? That's News to me to be honest. You see, this back and forth we have been having was as a result of Paul's work. In any conversation between a Muslim and a Christian, the Muslim in explaining his position will appeal to Jesus words. The Christian in countering this, quotes from Paul.

And Jesus explicitly says Matthew 10:24 "The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord" Yet, you find the Christians giving more weight to what Paul says. This discussion is not about Paul but one thing I can tell you categorically is that Paul is a Liar and was no Apostle of the Nazarene. I can show you many of his Teachings if you want but you will say that I am digressing so let us rest it at that.

Just as you pray for me to see the "Light" before it is too late, I am also praying for you to see the Light before it is too late.

The Glorious Quran say "They do blaspheme who say, Allah is Christ the son of Mary. But said Christ: O’ Children of Israel! Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. Whoever joins other gods with Allah- Allah will forbid him the garden, (i.e. paradise) and the fire will be his abode. There will for the wrong doers, be no one to help”.
“Surely they are disbelievers, those who say: Allah is one of the three in a Trinity: But there is none who has the right to be worshiped but one God (i.e. Allah). And if they cease not from what they say, verily a painful torment will befall the disbelievers among them”.Quran Surah 5:73& 74

N.B. To drive home my point that Paul was a Liar. Read the Preface to the Gospel According to Luke. Luke 1:1-4 KJV
[1] Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us,
[2] Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word;
[3] It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus,
[4] That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.

Here, Luke clearly told that he was never a WITNESS to what he is going to pen and that MANY people have taken to do what he is about to do. If you really want to know the Story of Jesus, and the Lies of Paul, take time and scan the Internet. The MANY Writings Luke alluded to are on the Internet. Don't limit yourself to the one the Council at Nicene approved. Read them all and make up your OWN mind. You will get to know who is on the Right Path and who is Astray.

So, Paul was a Prophet? That's News to me to be honest. You see, this back and forth we have been having was as a result of Paul's work. In any conversation between a Muslim and a Christian, the Muslim in explaining his position will appeal to Jesus words. The Christian in countering this, quotes from Paul.

I didn't say he was; the question was actually sarcastic. But on a serious note, Paul is much more of a prophet to the Christian than David, Solomon and Co.

My last comment contained no quote from Paul, so what are you talking about? There were two from Jesus, one from Isaiah and another from Proverbs. Where up there did you see a Paul'S quote, sir?

And Jesus explicitly says Matthew 10:24 "The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord" Yet, you find the Christians giving more weight to what Paul says.

Do we give more weight? No! The problem with ye followers of the Arabian is you think you know about Christianity more than the Christians. How can that even be? Paul's words are complementary to what Jesus represents. So the Christian accepts it. What concerns an Islamists with that?

This discussion is not about Paul but one thing I can tell you categorically is that Paul is a Liar and was no Apostle of the Nazarene. I can show you many of his Teachings if you want but you will say that I am digressing so let us rest it at that.

Paul is a liar, according to a Muslim, who has no business with his teachings. Wetin be una own for inside?


The Glorious Quran say

"They do blaspheme who say, Allah is Christ the son of Mary. But said Christ: O’ Children of Israel! Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. Whoever joins other gods with Allah- Allah will forbid him the garden, (i.e. paradise) and the fire will be his abode. There will for the wrong doers, be no one to help”.
“Surely they are disbelievers, those who say: Allah is one of the three in a Trinity: But there is none who has the right to be worshiped but one God (i.e. Allah). And if they cease not from what they say, verily a painful torment will befall the disbelievers among them”.Quran Surah 5:73& 74

According to the Arabic prophet who Christians don't even consider. What's our business with what the Koran says?

N.B. To drive home my point that Paul was a Liar. Read the Preface to the Gospel According to Luke. Luke 1:1-4 KJV
[1] Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us,
[2] Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word;
[3] It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus,
[4] That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.

Here, Luke clearly told that he was never a WITNESS to what he is going to pen and that MANY people have taken to do what he is about to do. If you really want to know the Story of Jesus, and the Lies of Paul, take time and scan the Internet. The MANY Writings Luke alluded to are on the Internet. Don't limit yourself to the one the Council at Nicene approved. Read them all and make up your OWN mind. You will get to know who is on the Right Path and who is Astray.

LuKe wasn't a direct witness, but that doesn't take away anything from his account, or does it? He emphasised the point that he had diligently carried out his research on the authenticity of his account of Jesus. How does this preface, in your estimation, make Paul a liar?

I have patiently awaited a response, but now that it appears we are finally in agreement, let me urge Muslims once again to concern and bother themselves with their religion only. Christianity is more than a religion, She is a relationship between God and man, through the channel of our Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus was, and is no mere prophet, like Islam falsely claims. He is God The Son. I don't bother attempting to explain the Trinity, that, I think is for the theologians. Like Saint Paul said, it's a mystery.

1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.


I don't expect practitioners of Islam to understand this when they are yet to understand the mystery of violence bedevilling a supposed religion of peace.

They quote copiously from the Bible when the Koran is there to occupy their time. Why won't they do so when the Arabic prophet stole his own religious ideas from the same Bible, giving Arabic colouring to Jewish stories and declaring the original to be fake. Isn't it ironical that they claim Jesus was sent to the Jews when their Allah understands only Arabic?

Islam is relevant only to Muslims; they should accept that and move on. We don't regard them, don't study their Koran, don't care about Muhammad, yet they won't let us be.

Onward Christian Soldiers! Continue fighting the good fight of faith!

Peace.

Ohibenemma:
I have patiently awaited a response, but now that it appears we are finally in agreement, let me urge Muslims once again to concern and bother themselves with their religion only. Christianity is more than a religion, She is a relationship between God and man, through the channel of our Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus was, and is no mere prophet, like Islam falsely claims. He is God The Son. I don't bother attempting to explain the Trinity, that, I think is for the theologians. Like Saint Paul said, it's a mystery.

1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.


I don't expect practitioners of Islam to understand this when they are yet to understand the mystery of violence bedevilling a supposed religion of peace.

They quote copiously from the Bible when the Koran is there to occupy their time. Why won't they do so when the Arabic prophet stole his own religious ideas from the same Bible, giving Arabic colouring to Jewish stories and declaring the original to be fake. Isn't it ironical that they claim Jesus was sent to the Jews when their Allah understands only Arabic?

Islam is relevant only to Muslims; they should accept that and move on. We don't regard them, don't study their Koran, don't care about Muhammad, yet they won't let us be.

Onward Christian Soldiers! Continue fighting the good fight of faith!

Peace.

My silence is not as a result of what to say, it is borne out of the fact that we are told in the Quran to deliver our Message and move on. Almighty God, the Creator of The Heavens and Earth and all that lies in between knows who errs and who is one the Right Path. He knows those who are DEAF, DUMD AND BLIND and He will recompense ALL accordingly.

We quote copiously from the Bible because that is the ONLY BOOK you guys recognized. Were you to profess Hinduism, I would have quote from the Vedas, and if you are to profess Judaism, the Old Testament would have been the Book I will use to reason out the worship of the Creator ought to be.

The violence in Islam? I just laugh when you guys repeat that, and the reason behind it. I have given you analogies and similitudes of Islam and other system that seek to govern the Spiritual and the Temporal affairs of Men but you won't see the reality of it simply because you are Deaf, Dumb and Blind to reason but would rather believe the superstitions that are the handiwork of Men.

In your ignorance which you think you can hide behind meaningless words you claimed that Allah understand only Arabic. Well, to Allah belong the Heavens and the Earth and what lies in between, He it is that taught men speech and He surely understand ALL. It also show your ignorance because, in your Bible it is Prophesied that a Time will come, the Worship of God will be ONE among People, and that the World will worship God in ONE LANGUAGE. Zephaniah 3:9 KJV For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the Lord , to serve him with one consent. Some of you believe Jesus will do this in his second coming! Meaning that when he comes back, Aramaic will be widely spoken. I ask you won't Jehovah/Yahweh be accused of UNDERSTANDING ONLY ONE LANGUAGE by ignorant folks then?

Islam is relevant to Muslims alone that is true and if you don't know, Muslims are people who submit their will to that of the Creator. They worship Him ALONE, not mixing or adding the worship of men or any spirit in His worship, follow his commandments. They bow down as people of old did and beseech Him for assistance and look to do what is pleasing to Creator ALONE. Yes, you are right in that assertion.

We care about our Creator, we worship him daily. In Islam, EVERYDAY is the day of The Lord and our Prophet? We pray for him daily and our Quran? There are over 5 million souls in the world that can recite/reproduce that Book from their God given Computer, the Brain effortlessly. Pick any one of them from Tashkent and one from Tehran and another from Lagos, they will read you the same words in ONE Language. They will pray in one accord, all facing Same direction and their Lord's Name will be ONE because they speak ONE language in Worship. Yet, you lots are still waiting for fulfillment of Prophesy and you are seeing one right in front of you daily? Tell me, is that not ignorance? Being Deaf, Dumb and Blind?

[s]My silence is not as a result of what to say, it is borne out of the fact that we are told in the Quran to deliver our Message and move on. Almighty God, the Creator of The Heavens and Earth and all that lies in between knows who errs and who is one the Right Path. He knows those who are DEAF, DUMD AND BLIND and He will recompense ALL accordingly.[/s]

Almighty God knows; Hallelujah. Now you may move on, sir.

[s]We quote copiously from the Bible because that is the ONLY BOOK you guys recognized. Were you to profess Hinduism, I would have quote from the Vedas, and if you are to profess Judaism, the Old Testament would have been the Book I will use to reason out the worship of the Creator ought to be[/s].

Good you know that's the only book. You may consume the Vedas, etc. That's because they are relevant to you. The Koran isn't relevant to Christians. Is it to see the same stories turned in their head by an ethnocentric Arab to suit his proclivities?

The violence in Islam? I just laugh when you guys repeat that, and the reason behind it. I have given you analogies and similitudes of Islam and other system that seek to govern the Spiritual and the Temporal affairs of Men but you won't see the reality of it simply because you are Deaf, Dumb and Blind to reason but would rather believe the superstitions that are the handiwork of Men.

So the same mandate to kill all unbelievers in your religion, that the Arab Prophet received, has been transferred to you guys today? The murders and assassinations are your ideas of temporal and spiritual governance?

In your ignorance which you think you can hide behind meaningless words you claimed that Allah understand only Arabic. Well, to Allah belong the Heavens and the Earth and what lies in between, He it is that taught men speech and He surely understand ALL. It also show your ignorance because, in your Bible it is Prophesied that a Time will come, the Worship of God will be ONE among People, and that the World will worship God in ONE LANGUAGE. Zephaniah 3:9 KJV For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the Lord , to serve him with one consent. Some of you believe Jesus will do this in his second coming! Meaning that when he comes back, Aramaic will be widely spoken. I ask you won't Jehovah/Yahweh be accused of UNDERSTANDING ONLY ONE LANGUAGE by ignorant folks then?

At least, Arabic is your Allah's favourite language. That's why every Muslim is considered incomplete if he has zero knowledge of it. Or why must a Yoruba man pray in Arabic for an audience with very limited knowledge of the language? Imagine a Muslim being asked to pray in a gathering and everything he says is in Arabic. At the end of it all a couple of persons respond amin while others have no idea what has been said.

Islam is relevant to Muslims alone that is true and if you don't know, Muslims are people who submit their will to that of the Creator. They worship Him ALONE, not mixing or adding the worship of men or any spirit in His worship, follow his commandments. They bow down as people of old did and beseech Him for assistance and look to do what is pleasing to Creator ALONE. Yes, you are right in that assertion.

I quite agree with you here, only you failed to add that Muslims are those who think Muhammad the greatest prophet to have ever transversed the earth, and are ready to kill themselves over him. I don't know what other worship can be greater than that. NB: They are also those who worship a black stone in Mecca, keep a photo of same stone in their homes and claim it ain't an idol.

We care about our Creator, we worship him daily. In Islam, EVERYDAY is the day of The Lord and our Prophet? We pray for him daily and our Quran? There are over 5 million souls in the world that can recite/reproduce that Book from their God given Computer, the Brain effortlessly. Pick any one of them from Tashkent and one from Tehran and another from Lagos, they will read you the same words in ONE Language. They will pray in one accord, all facing Same direction and their Lord's Name will be ONE because they speak ONE language in Worship. Yet, you lots are still waiting for fulfillment of Prophesy and you are seeing one right in front of you daily? Tell me, is that not ignorance? Being Deaf, Dumb and Blind?

Praying for a dead Arabian everyday is commendable. Keep it up. Facing one direction is for what reason? Is that where your Allah is? Isn't he supposed to be everywhere? And why must the prayers be monotonous babblings, sir? Isn't that the pattern of zombies?

According to your Islam, what is the status of Jesus today? Where is he? Would he come back?

Ohibenemma:



Almighty God knows; Hallelujah. Now you may move on, sir.



Good you know that's the only book. You may consume the Vedas, etc. That's because they are relevant to you. The Koran isn't relevant to Christians. Is it to see the same stories turned in their head by an ethnocentric Arab to suit his proclivities?

So the same mandate to kill all unbelievers in your religion, that the Arab Prophet received, has been transferred to you guys today? The murders and assassinations are your ideas of temporal and spiritual governance?




At least, Arabic is your Allah's favourite language. That's why every Muslim is considered incomplete if he has zero knowledge of it. Or why must a Yoruba man pray in Arabic for an audience with very limited knowledge of the language? Imagine a Muslim being asked to pray in a gathering and everything he says is in Arabic. At the end of it all a couple of persons respond amin while others have no idea what has been said.

I quite agree with you here, only you failed to add that Muslims are those who think Muhammad the greatest prophet to have ever transversed the earth, and are ready to kill themselves over him. I don't know what other worship can be greater than that. NB: They are also those who worship a black stone in Mecca, keep a photo of same stone in their homes and claim it ain't an idol.

Praying for a dead Arabian everyday is commendable. Keep it up. Facing one direction is for what reason? Is that where your Allah is? Isn't he supposed to be everywhere? And why must the prayers be monotonous babblings, sir? Isn't that the pattern of zombies?

According to your Islam, what is the status of Jesus today? Where is he? Would he come back?

Matthew 12:36-37 KJV
[36] But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
[37] For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

My work here is complete.

It is funny how you quote the Bible over a subject that has nothing to do with the scriptures. Did you see the Bible talk about facing ONE direction to pray to the Almighty and Omnipotent God? Did you see The Bible talk about facing Saudi Arabia when praying? Or did you see the Bible mention marching around a black stone idol in veneration?

Did the Prince of Peace instruct His followers to behead those who didn't believe in him?

Lukuluku69:



Matthew 12:36-37 KJV
[36] But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
[37] For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

My work here is complete.

You never had any job here in the first place. This was never meant to be a debate. It was and is a statement of fact that Islam is no Benchmark for true Christianity.

Farewell.
Peace.