In the sixteenth century, the Protestant Reformers removed a large section of the Old Testament that was not compatible with their theology. They charged that these writings were not inspired Scripture.

Following the Protestant attack on the integrity of the Bible, the Catholic Church infallibly reaffirmed the divine inspiration of the deuterocanonical books at the Council of Trent in 1546. In doing this, it reaffirmed what had been believed since the time of Christ.

The Protestant patristics scholar J. N. D. Kelly writes: "It should be observed that the Old Testament thus admitted as authoritative in the Church was somewhat bulkier and more comprehensive than the [Protestant Old and New Testament] . . .

The deuterocanonicals teach Catholic doctrine, and for this reason they were taken out of the Old Testament by Martin Luther and placed in an appendix without page numbers. Luther also took out four New Testament books—Hebrews, James, Jude, and Revelation—and put them in an appendix without page numbers as well. These were later put back into the New Testament by other Protestants, but the seven books of the Old Testament were left out. Following Luther they had been left in an appendix to the Old Testament, and eventually the appendix itself was dropped (in 1827 by the British and Foreign Bible Society), which is why these books are not found at all in most contemporary Protestant Bibles, though they were appendicized in classic Protestant translations such as the King James Version.

The reason they were dropped is that they teach Catholic doctrines that the Protestant Reformers chose to reject. Earlier we cited an example where the book of Hebrews holds up to us an Old Testament example from 2 Maccabees 7, an incident not to be found anywhere in the Protestant Bible, but easily discoverable in the Catholic Bible. Why would Martin Luther cut out this book when it is so clearly held up as an example to us by the New Testament? Simple: A few chapters later it endorses the practice of praying for the dead so that they may be freed from the consequences of their sins (2 Macc. 12:41-45); in other words, the Catholic doctrine of purgatory. Since Luther chose to reject the historic Christian teaching of purgatory (which dates from before the time of Christ, as 2 Maccabees shows), he had to remove that book from the Bible and appendicize it. (Notice that he also removed Hebrews, the book which cites 2 Maccabees, to an appendix as well.)

Martin Luther (1483-1546) is to be given the credit for inventing the false doctrine of Sola Scriptura (Bible Only or Bible Sufficiency).
It has become so bad that the sects are feuding amongst themselves and are further splitting internally. There are scores of splinters in the Baptists alone, and several splinters in all of the other major Protestant sects. It is every man for himself in Bible interpretation for Protestantism. If it feels good for you, it must be OK, but be prepared to suffer the consequences. There is no unity in what Martin Luther started.

Luther is the one who, on his own 'authority', removed 7 books from their rightful place in the Old Testament, and placed them in an appendix. They had references in them which did not agree with 'his' teaching, mainly 2 Maccabees and Purgatory. He also wanted to remove the last four books of the New Testament, Hebrews, James, Jude, and Revelation, and he succeeded in removing them from their rightful place and put them into an additional unnumbered appendix.
Here is a quote from a Lutheran scholar:
Heinrich Bornkamm's LUTHER AND THE OLD TESTAMENT, Trans. by Eric W. and Ruth C. Gritsch. Edited by Victor I Gruhn. Philadelphia: Fortress Press, 1969. page 189:
"He did not make his distaste evident through his arrangement for printing, although he characterized the last four writings of the New Testament (Hebrews, James, Jude, Revelation) as inferior by not numbering them in the Table of Contents, just as the Old Testament Apocrypha, and by separating them from the main writings of the New Testament by a clear space.(394)"
The footnote, number 394, reads as follows: "394 From the New Testament of September, 1522, to the last edition of the Bible in 1546, "
So what do we know? Luther included the four books, Hebrews, James, Jude, and Revelation, in his NT, but only in an unpaginated appendix, clearly separated from the rest of the NT. We know that this continued from the first printing of Luther's NT until he died in 1546, and then his Bible was reconfigured by his followers.
James 2:24 must have proved an embarassment to him in his teaching of 'Sola Fides', as it says, "You see that by works a man is justified, and NOT by faith ONLY." Also, James 2:26 says, "Faith without works is dead."
Luther added the word 'alone' to his translation of Romans 3:28 because that verse also contradicted his teaching of 'Sola Fides', "For we reckon that a man is justified by faith alone independently of the works of the law."
See Proverbs 30:6


Martin Luther declared good works were useless for salvation. He did take away from the Words of GOD. James 2:24-26

Martin Luther wrote a series of pamphlets in which he declared that the Priesthood and the Episcopal Office must be done away with. He did take away from the Word of GOD, which clearly established the Episcopal Office and the Priesthood. Acts 6:5,14:22,20:28, Tit 1:5, James 5:14.

So the protestant Bible is corrupted and cannot be relied on and certanly no way in line with Muslim Tradition Muslim is purer

I come from the Semites to the north of modern Israel in the area corresponding more or less to modern Lebanon which were called Phoenicians by the Greeks and who developed the modern alphabet.

We haven't got time, we as christians need to preach the TRUTH in the most humble and kind way possible. The end is near and i don't know about you, but i want my loved ones - and strangers to go to heaven. Even the lord said some people will be saved by FEAR.

I rest my case

Most non-Catholic sects declare that the Holy Spirit is 'teaching' them the truth. However, there can be only one truth. Since the advent of Sola Scriptura and individual interpretation of Scripture, how can the Holy Spirit be in each of the thousands of sects, teaching all of them opposing viewpoints? It is to be noted that all of the following denominations teach from the same Bible, so why the differences in teaching?

1. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Lutherans the Eucharist is the true presence of Christ, and then tell the Baptists it is only a symbol?

2. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Methodists it is alright to have female ministers, and then tell the Baptists it is unbiblical?

3. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Seventh Day Adventists that Saturday is the day of worship, and then tell the Presbyterians the day of worship is Sunday and not Saturday?

4. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Lutherans that the Blessed Virgin Mary was and remains always virgin, and then tell the Baptists she had other children?

5. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Baptists, 'once saved always saved', and then tell the Church of Christ that Sola Fides is unscriptural?

6. How can the Holy Spirit tell Episcopalians to baptize infants and then tell Pentecostals infant baptism is invalid?

7. How can the Holy Spirit tell Mormons that the Holy Trinity is three separate persons, and then tell Methodists the Trinity is three persons in one GOD?

I could go on and on with the differences between non-Catholic sects, but I think you get the point. It takes only a minimum of common sense to realize that the Holy Spirit could not be speaking to each and everyone of those thousands of non-Catholic sects in the opposing ways of which I have sampled here. However, I was recently reminded that common sense is not so common anymore. It is easy to see that the 'fruits of Sola Scriptura' are not from GOD. There is no 'one fold and one shepherd' in Protestantism. Opposing teachings in these denominations is rampant, all caused by the false doctrine of Sola Scriptura and its accompanying 'individual interpretation' of Holy Scripture. Which, if any, of these sects is being taught all of the truth, as promised by Jesus Christ in John 16:13?

CHRSD,

Say for example only a fraction of the bible is really Gods word. THE FACT WILL STILL REMAIN THAT CHRISTIANS FEEL AND HAVE A RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD - islams don't.

And may i take it to revelation[/b] 22

[b]18And I solemnly declare to everyone who hears the prophetic words of this book: If anyone adds anything to what is written here, God will add to that person the plagues described in this book. 19And if anyone removes any of the words of this prophetic book, God will remove that person's share in the tree of life and in the holy city that are described in this book.

And theres no doubt that there are a lot of lies that the holy spirit said do this and that. God mentioned hypocrites throughout the bible! But on judgement day God will judge and decide who was true and who was not - So who are you to judge?

Islamic people have close connection with God. And Muhammed was great prophet.

what connection? whens the last time God spoke to you. Seriously?

You don't like muslims much?

No, i have no problems with muslims, i just think that you need to hear the truth because your beliefs are leaving you with destructive minds and not only are your beliefs leading you to destroy other people, you want to destroy yourselves! I feel sorry for them! Your Quran actually teaches violence

I'm not muslim if you want to know. And there are lot of christians in western world who go for war and not do what christians are supposed to do. Remember that most exploitation is done by western christians and not by muslims.

I'm sorry that I've been busy and could not have seen the posts made earlier on. However, I'll briefly restate my points. Softee, we as Christians endeavour to bring the Gospel of Jesus Christ to the world in truth, love and understanding. However, I think it is highly offensive when you go so far as to directly call someone else's faith demonic. This was your quote:

Softee:
Which is why many christians belief it is of the devil (which is my view).

I was reacting to that kind of statement and appealing for wisdom not to use inflammatory verbiage. We've heard all the bad news on all sides - Jews, Christians and Muslims. I think we should concentrate on telling the Goodnews and trust the Holy Spirit to draw people's hearts to Jesus Christ. In 1 Cor.10:32, we're told to not give offence to anyone, whether Jews, Gentiles or the Church. I believe the power of the Gospel is still effective by simply telling our own side of the story or whatever we want to say without putting down the beliefs of others, even though they might be wrong from our own point of view.

4gt_m.

If we don't like people because they don't do what we expect them to, does not make them wrong. Perhaps we are wrong in expecting that. That's inly my opinion.

The main difference between Islam and christianity is that Islam enjoins believe in, and worship of One God while Christianity teaches believe in three gods ( Father, Son and Holy Spirit ).

nuru:

The main difference between Islam and christianity is that Islam enjoins believe in, and worship of One God while Christianity teaches believe in three gods ( Father, Son and Holy Spirit ).

Please nuru, I challenge you to quote just one reference in the Bible that says clearly that Christianity believes in three gods. Just one verse in the Bible that says that there are three Gods in the Christian faith. If you do not understand the Trinity, then don't invite unwarranted statements that will fetch you more confusion.

Second, how many gods do you worship in Islam when Allah is a plural deity? If Allah was a singular deity in Islam, I cannot understand why he could not get his grammar right in the use of pronouns and addresses himself as "We" instead of "I" or "Me". When someone says "we do this or that," it is clear for all to see that there are more than one person speaking, regardless the excuse.

(Koran 19:67)
But does not man call to mind that WE created
him before out of nothing.

Allah in the Qur'an is clearly not one god as you so dogmatically claim - he is a plural deity!

4get_me,

First of all i did not call islam a demonic religion, I SAID IT WAS OF THE DEVIL, and the difference is HUGE, but i don't want to go into that because thats not what the subject is about.

Secondly, Yes i believe in the power of the gospel BUT people are going to be saved by fear and God uses people to enforce that.

Lastly i don't think you have any right to tell me i am trying to win an argument. THAT WAS NOT MY MOTIVE, i felt ithad to be said and theres reasons behind it. TAKE THE LOG OUT OF YOUR OWN EYE and don't judge me again.

First of all i did not call islam a demonic religion, I SAID IT WAS OF THE DEVIL, and the difference is HUGE

Now, I'm not a religious person and as such all the terminology that comes with religion often flies over my head.

Could someone please explain the difference between 'demonic' and 'of the devil'; from my understanding both have something to do with being evil, but I'm probably wrong and the issue of faith (faith in the right to butcher the English language) probably comes into it somewhere.

exu:

Could someone please explain the difference between 'demonic' and 'of the devil'; from my understanding both have something to do with being evil

Exu you sef see am. Sounds like someone is splitting hairs. Especially this line

Softee:

the difference is HUGE

Softee, do you really feel 'judged' because I appealed for your use of non-inflammatory verbiage? If I had inadvertently used expressions tantamount to the same cause as you did, I apologise to anyone who feels hurt thereby.

Softee:

Secondly, Yes i believe in the power of the gospel BUT people are going to be saved by fear and God uses people to enforce that.

However, it makes me wonder what Bible you've been reading because I'm not convinced that people are going to be saved by fear. Good for you if you were saved by fear, but it doesn't work that way with everyone. The Bible tells me people are drawn to Jesus and saved by grace and love. At least I saw that one after removing the log from my own eyes. That is the reason I try to play it safe by quoting my references for what I say:
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God." (Eph 2:8). Infact, love and fear are not the same: "There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love." (1 John 4:18). Certainly, I have no right to tell you what to say or not, but if you're convinced that using provocative words is better than those promoting peace and grace, I rest my case.

With love,
4get_me.

4get ; Read this from my posts in other threads '' The use of we by Allah in the Quran is an expression of majesty and not pluralism. Example is when a President is talking, even when it is a fact that he is the one that has taken a decision, he would usually come out and say ' Our Government has decided '. That is not say there are two Presidents in the country. This true for all languages of the world. So contrary to your assertion, the Quran is clear on the fact that there is only one Allah. ''

Christians believe and baptise in the name of God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost. Go and ask them.

Nuru, I asked for one Bible verse and all you can do is give me this lame excuse that the use of "We" by Allah is an expression of majesty? Indeed I read the thread that you refered to, and m4malik did a good job in his reply to yours. You will not find one verse in the Bible saying that Christians believe in or worship three Gods; yet there are multiplied verses that clearly show Allah speaking as a plural deity. Your analogy of a President saying "Our Government, " is weak; it does not even correspond to the case in point. If you don't understand what Christianity is about, ask and answers will be given. But if you're trying to be sarcastic and ridicule other people's faith, you probably would not like what they'll say about your own faith, especially when the Qur'an is quoted to back what they say. Allah is not a single deity that you worship in Islam. Where did I see that? In your own Qur'an where Allah says: ", Us (alone) did they serve" [Sura 21:73]. How many gods do you serve in Islam? Take care of your own questions in Islam before you make unfounded statements about other faiths.

4gt_m. 

I think i have been mistaken. When i said islam is OF the devil i meant that the teachings are led by the devil, the quran says a lot of things about violence against non- belivers (kufarrs) and this is what the bible will call false-teachings which are enforced by the devil.

The reason why i said that i did not call islam demonic because demonic is a nice way of saying that muslims are demons, I DO NOT THINK THIS! I have loads of muslim friends that i respect.

4Get_Me,

I love God, The whole body in heaven, i feel blessed, glad to have him, BUT I STILL FEAR HIM! because hes most high! When i said people will be saved by fear i meant the fear or going to HELL, because nobody wants to spend eternity burning in hell. When i teach to muslims about God, i do not say directly "YOU ARE GOING TO HELL", instead i quote from the bible and when its needed i will tell them the hidden truth about islam.

If you want someone to be drawn to christ they need to hear the truth about their past life, im only 15 years old and when i watched a dvd exposing hip hop music, i immediatley stopped and got drawn to Gospel.

And for your information, I AM NOT SAVED BY FEAR, I'm saved by love, God is LOVE, all the way, but i fear going to hell and that why im trying to do good, also for our saviour jesus chist, For i love the body in heaven so much and am 100% grateful.

Now as christians, we should not argue with eachother, we belive in the same thing but interperet it in differen't ways. I am still in a learning process because my relationship with the Holy Spirit isn't as developed as most true christians, so lets keep it as that.

We Thank God For Your Life!

One of those proclaimed saved lunatics. Seen a lot of them around

Softee, I get your point now, and I'm humbled even though I did not agree with you about the use of certain words. God bless and increase your faith in the truth of His word; nevermind that some who despise your choice to be saved in Jesus Christ will now turn round and call you a 'lunatic.' God is greater than what I will ever say to you - and it is in Him you should anchor your faith. To Him be all the glory.

4gt_m.

chrisd:

If we don't like people because they don't do what we expect them to, does not make them wrong. Perhaps we are wrong in expecting that. That's inly my opinion.

chrisd:

One of those proclaimed saved lunatics. Seen a lot of them around

chrisd, you amaze me! Within the space of 48 hours you're displaying two opposite dispositions. One minute you're advising that we shouldn't treat people wrongly just because they don't do what we expect of them; and the next minute you call someone a "lunatic" because he doesn't conform to your religion? I wonder who'll be your next victim. Just play it cool.

You got me wrong there. I went to pentecostal and charismatic churches and they found a problem I was not acting like they do. So I changed church again.

Even so, don't you think calling someone a 'lunatic' went a bit too far just because you had problems with one church? You haven't even met or known Softee, and calling him what you did doesn't speak well on your part.

Three churches actually. You should come to London and see for yourself. One got electrocuted for pushing the power of God to the limit. And God never got him back.

I don't think the power of God saved him. Or maybe he was false prophet from some backward town or something.

I'm a SHE

Chrisd,

Why do you focus on other people, why not focus on yourself! One thing that people do a lot that really annoys me is to say "she does this and she calls herself a christian" " he does this and he calls himself a christian". Why not make your relationship with the Holy Spirit personal, don't focus on what other people are doing. God is the judge, he will judge the wrong!

I actually live in london and the pentecostal churches here are fine. (Although my expirience might have not been your expirience). But you have to move on, find a new church and blame the people not the faith they follow.