Johncables402:


Insult me all you want Afonja, Igbos will still remain your worst nightmare like the boeres are to the charcoals in south Africa. We remain the backbone of Nigeria's industries, entertainment, sports , international recognition and business. You are nothing but a Hausa slave . Idiot .

Yaba left is waiting for you.

IGBO KWENU!

Johncables402:


Truth hurts fool.

What truth, your aim was to derail this thread so you can come and spew your Biafra propaganda because they must have deported your cousin Emeka for selling wee wee in Yeoville and now you don't have anymore foreign exchange earnings to build your store in Aba market.

Johncables402:


Who is treating foreigners badly , is not Zulus?. If South Africa had only white people, black foreigners would live in peace like kings and queens but the jealous Zulus discriminate against them. Idiots.

Peasant tribalist dickkkshit shut the fucccckup.

morpheus24:


You deliberately ignore the statements when contextualized, so I will repeat it one last time. If you don't get it after that please move on or go back to school.

I have debated 1000 Afrikaners

I have debated 3000 White S.Africans of british ancestry.

I have debated many Afrikaners.

I have debated more white S. Africans of british ancestry than I have debated Afrikaners.

If the logic above in reference to complimentary statements above allude you then I don't know what else to say, its my word against yours at this point.



This is the most stupid statement you have made so far, so all my debates must be on internet platforms and I must register all the Van Nierkes, coetzee's, La platts and everyone else's last name that appears on 7 de laan for me to prove interactions with Afrikaners. Quite nonsensical.

There is no chance that I have actually lived in different cities in South Africa.

There is no chance that I actually worked for a certain period of time, in cape town,Johannesburg, travelled through several countries as a UN attache since before the 2010 World cup, sat on panel discussions with the likes of Khaya Dlanga who I have known since 2007, interacted with small coloreds, Zulus, Xhosas communities spanning the length of cape town all the way to Port Elizabeth, currently have many friends and associates who are white south african historians of the afrikaner persuasion, students from Rodenbosh and UJ.

You really have some audacity my friend. I have been on Nairaland since 2007 that's over a decade covering South and Southern African issues, debated your kin folk on here who have identified as Afrikaner,white S. AFricans , Coloreds, Black south Africans. etc and you come here with your Afrikaner audacity because you are bruised at the assertion I made regarding your Africaness or what you perceive this to be. You have some nerve. This is why I detest debates with your ilk, you can never stay subjective.




This arguement is getting stale now because you have issues with comprehension for real. So you are assert my statement is false. We have enumerated reasons why even if "some" Afrikaners were to assert this which is not far fetched, the evidence presented shows they are not or their concept of "African-ness" is not on par or concurrent with the concept as shared amongst the rest of the continent.

We go through historical evidence, Genetic evidence, linguistic evidence, Religious evidence, and all this just flies out the window.



You are just reaching for straws now ,point me to the evidence that estimates "millions" died. I would like to peruse over this.



I have enumerated evidencial points, your statement above is opinion but then again you are the typical stubborn Afrikaner type. How dare this Nigerian tell you off, eh?


The whole above book comparison really has nothing to do with the argument but again is a red herring on your part. You haven't read the book so we cannot continue to debate points of contrast can we?. You simple want to rehash your knowledge of Boer history to us here.

What I will say is that Matteson book picks ups from Apartheid era in South Africa and focuses on the media perspective of the political atmosphere but he does references many a subject matters with his point of view, which is discussed much more expansively in walker's books such as the broaderbond.


This is not our original debate this is a red herring. You simply want to rehash or test my knowledge of Afrikaner history as a way of discrediting my initial assertion. I will not fall for that. I have repeated that there are several contrasting view points in walkers books versus other books I have read, I have given two books to contrast between and I have given a specific account.

You are basically red herring here.

You deliberately ignore the statements when contextualized, so I will repeat it one last time. If you don't get it after that please move on or go back to school.

I have debated 1000 Afrikaners

I have debated 3000 White S.Africans of british ancestry.

I have debated many Afrikaners.

I have debated more white S. Africans of british ancestry than I have debated Afrikaners.

If the logic above in reference to complimentary statements above allude you then I don't know what else to say, its my word against yours at this point.


- maybe if I did contextualise it, it would make sense but I'm a man of logic.... And logically you have not debated with a 1000 Afrikaners...... I would even hatch a guess that the number of Afrikaners you've debated are not even 1% of your "contextualised" claim.

This is the most stupid statement you have made so far, so all my debates must be on internet platforms and I must register all the Van Nierkes, coetzee's, La platts and everyone else's last name that appears on 7 de laan for me to prove interactions with Afrikaners. Quite nonsensical.

- Well since you can't even spell the Surnames right and the fact that I've personally never met an Afrikaner with the surname La Platts it certainly doesn't bode well for your claim. Also for someone who's been on nairaland for 10 years you should at least be able to name the few so called Afrikaners by their moniker.

"There is no chance that I actually worked for a certain period of time, in cape town,Johannesburg, travelled through several countries as a UN attache since before the 2010 World cup, sat on panel discussions with the likes of Khaya Dlanga who I have known since 2007, interacted with small coloreds, Zulus, Xhosas communities spanning the length of cape town all the way to Port Elizabeth, currently have many friends and associates who are white south african historians of the afrikaner persuasion, students from Rodenbosh and UJ."

Congrats bro........... Must I also now list my life achievements? Secondly don't know where the fvck Rodenbosch is...... I'm only aware of Rondebosch, also there is no University named Rondebosch but since I'm guessing you meant UCT I'll let it slide, and FYI UJ and UCT aren't exactly Afrikaans........ So your "Many" Afrikaners are certainly not coming from those campuses.

"You really have some audacity my friend. I have been on Nairaland since 2007 that's over a decade covering South and Southern African issues, debated your kin folk on here who have identified as Afrikaner,white S. AFricans , Coloreds, Black south Africans. etc and you come here with your Afrikaner audacity because you are bruised at the assertion I made regarding your Africaness or what you perceive this to be. You have some nerve. This is why I detest debates with your ilk, you can never stay subjective"

"you are the typical stubborn Afrikaner type. How dare this Nigerian tell you off, eh? "

Litterally the irony in these two comments

This arguement is getting stale now because you have issues with comprehension for real. So you are assert my statement is false. We have enumerated reasons why even if "some" Afrikaners were to assert this which is not far fetched, the evidence presented shows they are not or their concept of "African-ness" is not on par or concurrent with the concept as shared amongst the rest of the continent.

Seems like its your comprehension that's lacking..... But I'll repeat myself again..... And probably again after this.

It doesn't matter whether you are of the opinion that Afrikaners are African or not or whether the Afrikaners concept of "African-Ness" is on par with that of the rest of you....... ITS THE FACT that You said Afrikaners do not view themselves as African but rather view themselves as European is the assertion I as an Afrikaner am telling you is false.

"We go through historical evidence, Genetic evidence, linguistic evidence, Religious evidence, and all this just flies out the window"

"I have enumerated evidencial points.?"

Provided evidencial points??...... Really? Through out this entire debate I've been the only one that has provided published articles to prove my claims....... You haven't even referenced your own book sources you've mentioned..... Even though I've made it easy for you and asked you to just reference a single point with regards to blood river.

"The whole above book comparison really has nothing to do with the argument but again is a red herring on your part."

So what you're telling me is that You brought up the whole book/ historical narrative comparison that has nothing to do with our original debate.. ..... Yet I'm red herring?? Cool story bro!

"You haven't read the book so we cannot continue to debate points of contrast can we?"

Actually it's quite the opposite obviously according to you I've been taught a contrasting history with regards to my heritage vs what's written in Walkers book...... Now I'll ask you again to reference the parts in Walkers book that contrasts what I've been taught, read and researched.

"I have repeated that there are several contrasting view points in walkers books versus other books"

Yet you've failed to provide even a single reference to prove that point.

"This is not our original debate"

You're original assertion: Afrikaners don't consider themselves African but rather European.

Me as an Afrikaner living in an Afrikaner community, surrounded by Afrikaners 24/7, interacting with Afrikaners of all walks of life, going to church with Afrikaners, talking Afrikaans ect ect..............is in fact less qualified than some Nigerian on nairaland with a few life highlights, on what the general view is by the Afrikaner community?? This is what you're saying?

morpheus24:


You are just reaching for straws now ,point me to the evidence that estimates "millions" died. I would like to peruse over this.

The Great Trek by John Murray: estimates the Death toll to be around 1.5 to 2million

"The Mfecane: Beginning the inquest: estimates around 2 million killed

Encyclopædia Britannica, 15th edition: estimates around 2 million.

I could list more... If you want.

jln115:



[s]- maybe if I did contextualise it, it would make sense but I'm a man of logic.... And logically you have not debated with a 1000 Afrikaners...... I would even hatch a guess that the number of Afrikaners you've debated are not even 1% of your "contextualised" claim.[/s]

Not worth a response at this point.

jln115:

- Well since you can't even spell the Surnames right and the fact that I've personally never met an Afrikaner with the surname La Platts it certainly doesn't bode well for your claim. Also for someone who's been on nairaland for 10 years you should at least be able to name the few so called Afrikaners by their moniker.

I could easily have ran through the end credits of 7 de laan and easily posted a bunch of Afrikaaner surnames here with Dutch and French ancestry but again that wasn't the point. You are however a stubborn Afrikaaner so the point would obviously fly over you head.

jln115:

Congrats bro........... Must I also now list my life achievements? Secondly don't know where the fvck Rodenbosch is...... I'm only aware of Rondebosch, also there is no University named Rondebosch but since I'm guessing you meant UCT I'll let it slide, and FYI UJ and UCT aren't exactly Afrikaans........ So your "Many" Afrikaners are certainly not coming from those campuses.

Again point flies over his head. So the people I have encountered in S. Africa are only "Afrikaaners" eh. I did mention a whole bunch of other peoples in the earlier statement but you deliberately ignore that part eh.

PS. Yes UCT is in Rondebosh.

jln115:

Litterally the irony in these two comments

I don't see the irony. I do however understand the reclusive and stubborn nature of the Afrikaaner.

jln115:


It doesn't matter whether you are of the opinion that Afrikaners are African or not or whether the Afrikaners concept of "African-Ness" is on par with that of the rest of you....... ITS THE FACT that You said Afrikaners do not view themselves as African but rather view themselves as European is the assertion I as an Afrikaner am telling you is false.

Strawman argument. " You have to point me to where I specifically said, " Afrikaners" in particular do not view themselves as African but rather as European". You are playing semantics now so you can bolster your argument.

Are Afrikaners the only White community in South Africa?

Do I actually say "Afrikaners do not view themselves as African" or do I say "W. South Africans identify with their nationality more so than they identify as African"?

jln115:

Provided evidencial points??...... Really? Through out this entire debate I've been the only one that has provided published articles to prove my claims....... You haven't even referenced your own book sources you've mentioned..... Even though I've made it easy for you and asked you to just reference a single point with regards to blood river.

"blood river" is a red herring on your part. My mentioning of the event again only points to the fact that they are mentioned in the book I referenced. They have nothing to do with the argument. The below points are however relevant points:

The genetic evidence points to the Afrikaaner as non African.

Linguistics evidence points to the Afrikaaner as non African.

The historical evidence in terms of religious affiliation, political affiliation, culture, way of life, points to the fact that the Afrikaner have always been aligned with their "European" kindred.

jln115:

So what you're telling me is that You brought up the whole book/ historical narrative comparison that has nothing to do with our original debate.. ..... Yet I'm red herring?? Cool story bro!

Yes, that's what I am saying. They are simply mentioned as commentary regarding books that I suggested people read for a better knowledge of Afrikaner history.

jln115:

Actually it's quite the opposite obviously according to you I've been taught a contrasting history with regards to my heritage vs what's written in Walkers book...... Now I'll ask you again to reference the parts in Walkers book that contrasts what I've been taught, read and researched.

Strawman argument tactics. I never said you were taught a "contrasting" history. I don't know what type of history they taught you growing up. What I did say was that several accounts concerning South African history "in general" narrated in Walker's books contrasted other books I have read concerning South African history. They contrast in the style and approach of the subject matter in that Walker's books were ever so more blunt and less sugar coated.

I have repeated this several times to you but like the stubborn Afrikaner that you are, of course the Nigerian can't tell you otherwise.

jln115:

You're original assertion: Afrikaners don't consider themselves African but rather European.

Me as an Afrikaner living in an Afrikaner community, surrounded by Afrikaners 24/7, interacting with Afrikaners of all walks of life, going to church with Afrikaners, talking Afrikaans ect ect..............is in fact less qualified than some Nigerian on nairaland with a few life highlights, on what the general view is by the Afrikaner community?? This is what you're saying?

The "assertion" is as follows "White South Africans do not identify as African. They identify more so on a nationalistic level compared to other Africans who use their national designation and "African" interchangeably.

The second consideration in particular concerning the "Afrikaaner community" who are a subset of the "White South African community" would be that judging from historical, genetic. linguistic and religious evidence, the Afrikaaner "cannot" be African in the sense that it is used by other Africans.

You would have to point to where I explicitly state that "Afrikaners "DO NOT SEE" themselves as African". This is a strawman tactic and a red herring.

SMH. You simply at this point want to argue for argument sake. Its getting stale.

Jkay187:


Peasant tribalist dickkkshit shut the fucccckup.

The Zulu is mad

morpheus24:


What truth, your aim was to derail this thread so you can come and spew your Biafra propaganda because they must have deported your cousin Emeka for selling wee wee in Yeoville and now you don't have anymore foreign exchange earnings to build your store in Aba market.

Igbos and whites run South Africa you fool. No matter what you afonjas and your Zulu friends say , we have pure Jewish blood and we rule the world.

JaceBlaze:
Are you saying the whites in South Africa would prefer your primitive apes in the video?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zG2z32mpQgA

Whites here have spoken of their hate for you Zulu primates , take a humble pie and be ashamed of yourselves that you could live with people for over 300 years and they still hate you today . Zulus are unlikable creatures .

Johncables402:


Igbos and whites run South Africa you fool. No matter what you afonjas and your Zulu friends say , we have pure Jewish blood and we rule the world.

Yaba left!

morpheus24:


Yaba left!

You are a slave Afonja, deal with that truth. An Afonja has no balls to confront anything let alone his superiors the Igbos race and whites. When we get Biafra , you lazy idiots will be treated worse that zulus at our borders . Rubbish charcoal face .

Johncables402:


[s]You are a slave Afonja, deal with that truth. An Afonja has no balls to confront anything let alone his superiors the Igbos race and whites. When we get Biafra , you lazy idiots will be treated worse that zulus at our borders . Rubbish charcoal face .[/s]

You are simply blowing hot air out of your mouth. Go and pick up ammunition and fight for your Biafra. Oops, you already did that once didn't you?

Nurse, 500cc's of Haloperidol!!!!!

morpheus24:


Not worth a response at this point.





I could easily have ran through the end credits of 7 de laan and easily posted a bunch of Afrikaaner surnames here with Dutch and French ancestry but again that wasn't the point. You are however a stubborn Afrikaaner so the point would obviously fly over you head.




Again point flies over his head. So the people I have encountered in S. Africa are only "Afrikaaners" eh. I did mention a whole bunch of other peoples in the earlier statement but you deliberately ignore that part eh.

PS. Yes UCT is in Rondebosh.




I don't see the irony. I do however understand the reclusive and stubborn nature of the Afrikaaner.




Strawman argument. " You have to point me to where I specifically said, " Afrikaners" in particular do not view themselves as African but rather as European". You are playing semantics now so you can bolster your argument.

Are Afrikaners the only White community in South Africa?

Do I actually say "Afrikaners do not view themselves as African" or do I say "W. South Africans identify with their nationality more so than they identify as African"?


"blood river" is a red herring on your part. My mentioning of the event again only points to the fact that they are mentioned in the book I referenced. They have nothing to do with the argument. The below points are however relevant points:

The genetic evidence points to the Afrikaaner as non African.

Linguistics evidence points to the Afrikaaner as non African.

The historical evidence in terms of religious affiliation, political affiliation, culture, way of life, points to the fact that the Afrikaner have always been aligned with their "European" kindred.







Yes, that's what I am saying. They are simply mentioned as commentary regarding books that I suggested people read for a better knowledge of Afrikaner history.




Strawman argument tactics. I never said you were taught a "contrasting" history. I don't know what type of history they taught you growing up. What I did say was that several accounts concerning South African history "in general" narrated in Walker's books contrasted other books I have read concerning South African history. They contrast in the style and approach of the subject matter in that Walker's books were ever so more blunt and less sugar coated.

I have repeated this several times to you but like the stubborn Afrikaner that you are, of course the Nigerian can't tell you otherwise.




This is why your argument falls flat because you are rephrasing the assertion.

If I have debated more White South Africans of other persuasions and I assert this in my earlier statement wouldn't that qualify my earlier assertion that "White South Africans do not see themselves as African".

SMH. You simply at this point want to argue for argument sake. Its getting stale.

I think that we can both agree that our responses have spiraled completely of track from what was initially debated(I will not delve in on who's fault this was since it will cause a debate in its self) ........ So for the sake of myself and yourself, I'll spare us another lengthy reply to the above.

Now this was my original comment which I posted on this thread.

jln115:
The ignorance displayed here love how everybody is talking on behalf of White(specifically Afrikaners) South Africans without actually ever speaking to one.

note I did not specifically quote you in this responds

This is my original assertion you challenged me on by stating you have debated many Afrikaners, and thus making you qualified to speak on behalf of Afrikaners and how they view themselves.

Other post where you also specifically mention Afrikaners and not White SAn in general:

1.

morpheus24:


They are not S. African they are pseudo Dutch/European settlers masquerading as African people.

2.

morpheus24:



Yes and they move once they feel they have lost. Its easy for them to move or transfer their capitalist derived wealth to "white" citadels or enclaves established globally.

You see then, they aren't S. African or African for that matter, just an extension of a world order established to control resources in any given geographical area for the benefit of a so called "peoples"

Why don't they stay and fight. They are 'African" right? Then they will turn around and scorn multitudes of real Africans crossing the seas hoping for a mediocre live else where.

PS I have rarely met a White S. African who proclaims that he is African, he says S. African but never African, much like the Arabs that inhabit the North part of Africa, you rarely hear any proclamations of an African identity. There is always a prefix to it.

Although you don't mention Afrikaners in that many words and you do use "white South Africans", the comment you where responding to was specifically referencing the Dutch/Afrikaner descendents who trace their roots back to the 1600s

3.

morpheus24:

I just pointed this out. Nation states can be a conglomerate of different racial identities thus the reason why Afrikaaners or White South Africans tend to label themselves as "South African"_a nationality versus refering to themselves as "African' which they reserve for native peoples even within their society.
.

here is another example where you talk on behalf of Afrikaners and their perception of whether they are African or not.

Lastly I've also clearly stated on several occasions that my debate was on the personal view of Afrikaners on whether they view themselves as African or not and not your own perception of what an African is or is not.

It just seems you get irked by the meer fact that there is a substantial amount of WHITE people that identifies themselves as African and not European...... Why you take such offence to this, I don't know?

Johncables402:


Whites here have spoken of their hate for you Zulu primates , take a humble pie and be ashamed of yourselves that you could live with people for over 300 years and they still hate you today . Zulus are unlikable creatures .

Brainless skull miner embarrassing himself with his inferior logic on a public forum

JaceBlaze:
Brainless skull miner embarrassing himself with his inferior logic on a public forum

Blacks are the same all over the world, no one can help them no matter how hard one tries, blacks will be blacks and throw around what should be flushed , the so called black progressive class of South Africa have shown that to the whole world by voting ape instead of progress. No one can help Africa , Africans are too slow to even help themselves.

kemptonpost:


Blacks are the same all over the world, no one can help them no matter how hard one tries, blacks will be blacks and throw around what should be flushed , the so called black progressive class of South Africa have shown that to the whole world by voting ape instead of progress. No one can help Africa , Africans are too slow to even help themselves.

The usual White privileged propaganda. You are however entitled to your opinion just as long as you remain a minority with diminishing power in Africa, we can all vent our frustrations and we will be fine, no?

Jkay187:


You do realize in SA foreigners without proper documentation are exploited and don't even enjoy the basic rights guaranteed under labour laws in SA. My point would rather be that all immigrants who are legally in SA be treated with dignity by employers.

Immigrants are not sissies they can take whatever comes their way unlike the " I want a black bank and my own mine fucktards".

kemptonpost:


Immigrants are not sissies they can take whatever comes their way unlike the " I want a black and my own mine fucktards".

NB:

Divide and conquer!

Divide and conquer!

Don't fall for the rhetoric.

I am Malawian and the Malawian is me!. I am the Zimbabwean and the Zimbabwean is me!. I am the Burundian and the Burundian is me!

They want you to remain working class. This is the genius of a capitalist system that creates a "special class" of people and endows them with all the resources in a given space while using as much cheap labor as they can to turn a profit.

Like Julius alluded to . I wait for the day that "Whites' will become our maids and carry our kids on their backs, clean our toilets or at least clean their own toilets. VIVA Africa!

morpheus24:

NB:

Divide and conquer!

Divide and conquer!

Don't fall for the rhetoric.

I am Malawian and the Malawian is me!. I am the Zimbabwean and the Zimbabwean is me!. I am the Burundian and the Burundian is me!

They want you to remain working class. This is the genius of a capitalist system that creates a "special class" of people and endows them with all the resources in a given space while using as much cheap labor as they can to turn a profit.

Like Julius alluded to . I wait for the day that "Whites' will become our maids and carry our kids on their backs, clean our toilets or at least clean their own toilets. VIVA Africa!

Socialism doesn't work. BTW working class people in the USA can make very good money in construction trades, welding etc. If S. Africa goes the way of Venezuela, or Cuba before that, everyone is in misery except a few at the top. You can bet S. Africans with money, black or white already have placed off shore somewhere. Wealthy Venezuelans started doing that as far back as 2005.

OyinbowithaTan:


Socialism doesn't work. BTW working class people in the USA can make very good money in construction trades, welding etc. If S. Africa goes the way of Venezuela, or Cuba before that, everyone is in misery except a few at the top. You can bet S. Africans with money, black or white already have placed off shore somewhere. Wealthy Venezuelans started doing that as far back as 2005.

Social capitalism is a good start but then again is South Africa's democracy mature enough to handle such a bridge between the two economic systems as "white monopoly capital" strangles the efforts of the government to find an amicable solution to the redistribution of wealth and ill gotten wealth for that matter, Hmmm?

You have social programs that deal with the issues of a racist legacy and you also deal with some of the Land issues that are of great depth and importance in South African history. Deal with funding SME's and funding the innovative sector of the economy to create jobs and increase the middle class. A good start

The wages of Working class people in the US is stagnant and has been stagnant for a good number of years. Working class people are not getting richer or are not able to transfer wealth from one generation to the other because wages are not keeping up with inflation, cost of living, taxation, etc. You have government cutting welfare programs left, right and center yet have an enormous military budget to build 500 million dollar bombs to point at Russia and parade their military might across the world, selling weapons to third world countries who in turn give their government and private companies resource concessions to suck the resources/profits from these countries leaving the rest of the people in perpetual conflict with each other.

Stop it men. All sides are necessary in the way forward including the socialist leaning EFF party.

OyinbowithaTan:


Socialism doesn't work. BTW working class people in the USA can make very good money in construction trades, welding etc. If S. Africa goes the way of Venezuela, or Cuba before that, everyone is in misery except a few at the top. You can bet S. Africans with money, black or white already have placed off shore somewhere. Wealthy Venezuelans started doing that as far back as 2005.

PS. The apartheid regime was socialist economy in my opinion.

It did not allow for free competition of all peoples.

It did redistribute wealth/resources to a specific group of people.

It did manipulate the markets via special concessions to special interest groups.

It did bar certain groups of people participating freely in its open market system.

It did manipulate the circumstances of private ownership of property for a "large" group of its population.

It did restrict certain groups of people from economic participation. e.t.c

morpheus24:


PS. The apartheid regime was socialist economy in my opinion.

It did not allow for free competition of all peoples.

It did redistribute wealth/resources to a specific group of people.

It did manipulate the markets via special concessions to special interest groups.

It did bar certain groups of people participating freely in its open market system.

It did manipulate the circumstances of private ownership of property for a "large" group of its population.

It did restrict certain groups of people from economic participation. e.t.c

Socialism is state ownership of industry and means of production. So in Socialism the government seizes the private banks, manufacturing, building/construction, food production etc.

kemptonpost:


Blacks are the same all over the world, no one can help them no matter how hard one tries, blacks will be blacks and throw around what should be flushed , the so called black progressive class of South Africa have shown that to the whole world by voting ape instead of progress. No one can help Africa , Africans are too slow to even help themselves.

And progress is that? I hope you not talking about Malema

kemptonpost:


Immigrants are not sissies they can take whatever comes their way unlike the " I want a black bank and my own mine fucktards".

Immigrants have no choice but to subject themselves to exploitation,they're beggars afterall so they accept anything kicked down to them.The conditions back home are more hellish than whatever bad treatment they suffer in South Africa

OyinbowithaTan:
Socialism is state ownership of industry and means of production. So in Socialism the government seizes the private banks, manufacturing, building/construction, food production etc.

I like I how you use the word "seize" here. A nice connotation that expresses your perception of the entirety of what all encompasses socialist theory/ideology, while ignoring arguments that discuss say dialectical materialism and how appropriate that might fit into the peculiarities of South Africa in terms of its history.

Socialism or socialist ideas are not necessarily anti market. They do however seek to facilitate "social outcomes" or "social programs" that are applicable in the South African context.

Johncables402:

The Zulu is mad

Thanks for the complement.

morpheus24:


I like I how you use the word "seize" here. A nice connotation that expresses your perception of the entirety of what all encompasses socialist theory/ideology, while ignoring arguments that discuss say dialectical materialism and how appropriate that might fit into the peculiarities of South Africa in terms of its history.

Socialism or socialist ideas are not necessarily anti market. They do however seek to facilitate "social outcomes" or "social programs" that are applicable in the South African context.

"seize", in the case of Cuba and Venezuela at gunpoint. If you want food stamps or welfare, lobby for it, that isn't socialism.

OyinbowithaTan:
"seize", in the case of Cuba and Venezuela at gunpoint. If you want food stamps or welfare, lobby for it, that isn't socialism.

Julius chooses Socialism as an economic system because he wants to be everything that is opposite to his perceived enemy since all his enemy's systems have failed the masses.

Almost all the movements in opposition to the Apartheid state were economic systems that were in opposition to that of their Oppressors. Its a no brainer, When he states that "capitalism has never worked for his people", he is not really lieing is he?

The DA cannot seem to articulate or reconcile its position of the benefits of a capitalist state faced with the issue of black empowerment and historical injustices and so will continue to remain or be viewed as the custodian of "White monopoly capital".

morpheus24:


Julius chooses Socialism as an economic system because he wants to be everything that is opposite to his perceived enemy since all his enemy's systems have failed the masses.

Almost all the movements in opposition to the Apartheid state were economic systems that were in opposition to that of their Oppressors. Its a no brainer, When he states that "capitalism has never worked for his people", he is not really lieing is he?

The DA cannot seem to articulate or reconcile its position of the benefits of a capitalist state faced with the issue of black empowerment and historical injustices and so will continue to remain or be viewed as the custodian of "White monopoly capital".

He is a phucking politician. Of course he is going to promise some sort of BS to his followers. Isn't he already on the take, getting money from well to do people? There isn't going to be some sort middle and upper middle class first worldism for S. Africa for the masses.
All of the elements of first worldism will die a slow death. Naspers probably has 1 foot out of the door, surprised they have not moved their HQ to a different country.

OyinbowithaTan:
He is a phucking politician. Of course he is going to promise some sort of BS to his followers. Isn't he already on the take, getting money from well to do people? There isn't going to be some sort middle and upper middle class first worldism for S. Africa for the masses.
All of the elements of first worldism will die a slow death. Naspers probably has 1 foot out of the door, surprised they have not moved their HQ to a different country.

I wonder what politician on the other side of the political spectrum, who doesn't promise BS to his followers?

I guess you are left with the BS that serves your group the best, huh?

morpheus24:


I wonder what politician on the other side of the political spectrum, who doesn't promise BS to his followers?

I guess you are left with the BS that serves your group the best, huh?

Look SA is going downhill fast, nothing will stop it. ANC, EFF whatever. It will reach stage 5 disaster level within 10 years. All of the money will be gone, off shore etc.

OyinbowithaTan:


Look SA is going downhill fast, nothing will stop it. ANC, EFF whatever. It will reach stage 5 disaster level within 10 years. All of the money will be gone, off shore etc.

include DA in there as well, DA! DA!

Try to look on the bright side though, What goes down must come up eh!. When the money goes so will the "people" who came in the first place to "exploit the resource", then they will then be replaced by another set of "greedy" peoples in search of the "profit" motive; foreign or local and the whole cycle of rich and poor starts all over again.

Don't fret much. Life is a cycle. People in 1994 said that it was the end of South Africa, packed their bag and left but you still had people making money after 1994 didn't you?