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Stats: 2,257,598 members, 4,938,709 topics. Date: Thursday, 23 May 2019 at 04:34 AM
Is It Right To Be A Christian And Join Secret Society?; Pastor Shares Photos / "How Can One Witness To A Jehovah's Witness?" / Female Jehovah's Witness Knocks At Man's House, He Opens The Door While Unclad (2) (3) (4)
|Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by Maximus69: 4:12pm On May 16|
shadeyinka:I'm only taking you up as a friend to chat with tactfully, but when it come to those who just feel like arguing, insulting, cursing and agitating on what God himself will judge, i'll just take my leave! Proverbs 17:14
He said i can't discuss with you, that's why i first tell you the rules guiding friendly discuss before we begin this!
|Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by shadeyinka(m): 4:12pm On May 16|
|Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by shadeyinka(m): 4:14pm On May 16|
Maximus69:Please give me a minute to chat up alBHAGDADI. I'll get back to you. Don't be offended
|Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by shadeyinka(m): 4:19pm On May 16|
You may ask him any question after we (Maximus69 and I) have finished comparing our scripture comprehension notes.
Please make me a promise right now!
What we are having now is just a friendly discuss!
We may not be able to continue if you interject like this.
Thanks: stay blessed
|Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by Maximus69: 4:25pm On May 16|
shadeyinka:You need to first understand the situation of the Israelites back in Jesus' days before you can grasp what actually happened!
The demons came into the land after the people had brought in foreign idols with all sort of spirits[demons] and by the time Jesus arrived the demons have turned many to madmen.
Today what TRUE Christians are doing is casting out the bad spirits that is causing or leading people towards destruction! Galatians 5:19-21
The Christians have expelled the spirits leading people into all these acts and restored in their hearts the spirit of God bearing fruits befitting God's Children. Galatians 5:22-23
Any spectacular show of expelling demons today is just a stage drama courtesy Satan, the demons and their human agents to deceive people into thinking that true Christians must also be doing the same thing! So unbelievers will continue quarrelling with true Christians, trying to find faults with them by quoting their man-made tradition. Paul said against those bearing the fruitage of God's holy spirit THERE IS NO LAW! Galatians 5:23
Well that is my own PERSONAL resolve!
|Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by shadeyinka(m): 4:46pm On May 16|
Maximus69:I am glad you seem to agree that demons and their human agents still exist in our generation like that encountered by Paul even though you also insinuated that demons afflict only Jews due to their idolatry. This need clarification!
Acts 16:16-18: " And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying: The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which show unto us the way of salvation. And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour."
In other words just as Paul casted out the spirit of divination, we are to still cast them out! Abi, what do you think?
THE TWO QUESTIONS AGAIN!
[quotte author=shadeyinka post=78444255]
I don't understand your distinction between "Physical Demons" and "Spiritual Demons".
I am speaking of the kind of casting out of demons that Jesus or the Apostles did in the scriptures!
So the question again:
1. Have you ever been used by God to cast out a demon?
2. Do you know any contemporary believer who has been used of God to cast out demons?
error noted: modified
|Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by alBHAGDADI: 5:06pm On May 16|
Ok I promise.
But know that he will run away when the floor is open. Tell him to also promise not to run away.
|Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by shadeyinka(m): 5:10pm On May 16|
alBHAGDADI:Thanks for your cordiality!
We have actually continued our conversation.
I will brief him too!
|Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by Maximus69: 7:54pm On May 16|
shadeyinka:Let me expatiate on my post!
Throughout the earth only the land of Israel is cleansed of demons as God told the Israelite to drive away the demons with a sacrifice [Leviticus 16:10-26] to signify that God's angels are about to start monitoring the inhabitant of Canaan [the land promised to Abraham their forefather].
God warned them not to bring in any foreign God to prevent the demons from coming back. All other nations are worshiping demons as Gods [1Corinthians 10:20] so the demons only work as false protectors, magical acts, foretellers and fortunetellers. In all those lands the spirits aren't fierce in their dealings with the people because their ancestors have been worshipers of these demons therefore they know how to appease such spirits. But Israelites have no standing with these demons neither do they know how to appease them because their own God gave laws that forbids all what they can be doing to maintain and sustain cordiality between them and the demons! So when these spirits had the chance to enter their land after God's angels have deserted the land, they afflicted the people with all sort of things!
That is why Jesus needed to CAST THEM OUT, but in other lands where the inhabitants knows how to deal with demons and believe these spirits are doing them favour, you dare not cast out the spirit that's bringing them GAIN! Act 16:16-24
Today, all what they're calling CASTING OUT DEMONS is just stage dramas because the demons have been here for ages and that is what our ancestors worshiped in the past as Gods, so there is no sense in casting out demons who have all their shrines in one place after another all around our neighbourhood!
What the book of Revelations says is that the demons will be angry and causing people to hate one another and killing one another, [Revelations 16:14 ]NOT just dramatising in places of worship!
That is my own PERSONAL conclusion on that Sir!
|Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by Maximus69: 8:02pm On May 16|
alBHAGDADI:There is no running from friendly and tactful discussion between two persons who have taken their time to PAY ATTENTION to what God's word says!
If we behave maturely like adults, there is gain in knowing the depth of what my neighbour have in mind regarding my worship that differs from his own, and it will help us to know that both of us are at peace with each other even though our beliefs contradicts, we're safe in the hands of our neighbours!
So if you also wish to have a tactful discuss on the differences between what you and i believes it's fine, but when someone is becoming intolerant there is no other thing to do than take my leave! Proverbs 17:14
Thanks for the understanding!
|Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by shadeyinka(m): 9:26pm On May 16|
Maximus69:I am not sure where you got this for Lev16:10-26 is about Atonement for sin/transgression. There is nothing suggesting demon there. In the old testament, there was no single episode of deliverance. The closest we had to deliverance is a relieve from demonic oppression
1Sam 16:23: "And it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took a harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him."
David had to play anytime Saul was disturbed.
Other than this was execution for those polluted with idolatry or burning with fire the accursed things.
Maximus69:There is no scriptural evidence that Angels left the land of Israel neither is there evidence that Angels permanently dwelt in the land of Israel.
You need to know that no power except of that of/from Christ can cast out any demon. What can be done include
b. Replacement or Substitution
Only Jesus and His disciples CAST OUT demons!
In the days of Christ, demons were in Israel and other nations
After the Christ, demons still existed in Israel and other nations
Are demons not presently working in people in our contemporary time?
Maximus69:The demon of divination Paul cast out was not done in Israel but in a Greek city. Hence your proposition doesn't hold.
"And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira ,which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul. … And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying:"
I couldn't but laugh at the bolded.
If Paul could cast out the spirit of divination from a damsel in the city of Thyatira, what stops Christians from going throughout the world in the authority of Christ Jesus to cast out demons.
If the demons in Africa have been here for ages, are they beyond the power of Christ Jesus?
The book of Revelation show that demonic activities would be more prevalent.
Casting out of Demons is more real than you think?
From your write-up, can I conclude that for my two questions
1. Have you ever been used by God to cast out a demon?
Your answer is NO!?
2. Do you know any contemporary believer who has been used of God to cast out demons?
Your answer is also NO!?
If this opinion is correct, can I proceed with my next question?
|Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by Maximus69: 10:06pm On May 16|
shadeyinka:It's just my PERSONAL resolve that is expressed in my write~up, so your opinion remains yours and mine remains mine!
Remember it's not about CORRECTING what you and i believe, but PRESENTATIONS of what each of us concluded after reading, studying, meditating and prayerfully correlating all these with what we heard from other sources!
As regards the NO response you're correct Sir, that is my answer to your two questions!
|Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by 0ppa(m): 10:07pm On May 16|
Maximus69:You were ex-military bro. My story has some atom of semblance with yours. It is nice to see what you do here, brother.
|Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by shadeyinka(m): 10:18pm On May 16|
Maximus69:Anyone of us can have a different opinion but the bible is still the standard. If either of us differ from what is clearly written, the other should correct in love. If on closer study, we find out that the supposed correction is not right in the light of the full gospel, we discard it.
Back to the discussion!
MY NEXT QUESTION!
Knowing that, It is one thing to have an ability (authority, empowerment) BUT it is another to use or be able to use such the ability.
Do think you have been empowered by Jesus to cast out demons?
|Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by Maximus69: 10:27pm On May 16|
0ppa:Thanks brother, please it's just a one on one discussion with my friend here. So we are not entertaining any third party.
What we will appreciate is just likes and shares from followers.
|Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by 0ppa(m): 10:31pm On May 16|
Maximus69:I noticed and have taken adherence.
|Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by Maximus69: 10:39pm On May 16|
shadeyinka:There can NEVER be a correction when two persons have contrary opinions without one NOTICING the higher intellect of the other!
That is what led to countless religious groups all claiming Christians with contradicting doctrines and conflicting teachings, A refuses to acknowledge that B has a wiser presentation so let's leave the correction out of our discussion for now. Each person can see if what he is saying produces good fruit or just saying what people likes to here without any practical application or lasting benefit!
|Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by shadeyinka(m): 10:49pm On May 16|
When you go out to preach and you encounter a person who is Demonized, what is your remedy? In other words, How do you solve the problem of a person who is clearly possessed of a demon in the cause of preaching and teaching the word of God?
|Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by Maximus69: 10:53pm On May 16|
shadeyinka:The spirit of preaching and teaching is enough for me Sir, and i have used it to help many start a good life now with hope of everlasting life in the future!
I am not interested in performing signs but doing what is required to gain everlasting life!
I don't have any business with demons, and i've told you the PRACTICAL APPLICATIONS that has worked in almost all the earth within the organization i associate with for the benefit of adherents. Isaiah 48:1-18
So if you know about demons and you feel like casting them out, it's a welcome development.
But i'm not seeing anything virtuous in people with the spirit of RACISM and ETHNIC discriminations, driving them to kill one another because of POLITICS! Isaiah 2:2-4
|Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by Maximus69: 11:07pm On May 16|
shadeyinka:I myself was a military intelligence officer, during our training we were taught how to kill without a rethink. When we went for more training in one asian country, each of us was given a gun with JUST A BULLET and a fierce she~bear is released to attack us one at a time. Our aim is to make the bear fall with the single bullet but failure to hit with the single bullet, the bear will catch the officer but before any harm is done a sniper will shoot the bear with another gun having the same type of bullet. This bullets can't kill the bear, it's just to make her fall fast asleep.
The training is for each officer to know whom to aim when he is in a tight situation so that each bullet get down one target!
Well i strongly believe that is the works of DEMONS back then and today i am a living witness/proof of casting such demons out of peoples lives.
But i can't think of demons other than this type, and i can assure you that it is simply by humbly listening to the presentations of TRUE Christians and agreeing to learning more from them that has helped me to break free!
|Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by shadeyinka(m): 11:16pm On May 16|
Maximus69:When you cast out a demon, what you have done is setting the person free from demonic affliction.
Every Christian should follow his Master and Lord's example (in love) for that is what makes us His disciples indeed.
"And his fame went throughout all Syria: and they brought unto him all sick people that were taken with divers diseases and torments, and those which were possessed with devils, and those which were lunatic, and those that had the palsy; and he healed them."
Here is the Ministry of Christ Jesus
"The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;"
Teaching and Preaching enough!?
Is it because there is no Authority of Christ backing you up or Lack of Faith?
Whenever Jesus casted out demons, where do they go? Is it to cause wars, racism and ethnic discriminations because of politics?
Since you obviously cannot cast out demons, you prefer to leave a Demonized bound and Oppressed by demons rather than do what Christ would have done..
Or, what really are you saying?
|Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by Maximus69: 11:24pm On May 16|
shadeyinka:FAITH is the assured EXPECTATION of things hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities THOUGH NOT SEEN! Hebrew 11:1
This is the definition of Apostle Paul Sir, and to the best of my understanding, it's what i'm working towards without SEEING anything[something that must be visible] that he is referring to as FAITH!
So if my ministry is bringing happiness to the homes of adherents of what i preach and teach. I'm fully satisfied and CERTIFIED! Galatians 5:22-23
|Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by shadeyinka(m): 11:55pm On May 16|
Let me give two quick examples
Let me give you just two personal examples:
1. I used to teach in a Polytechnic where IJMB exam is offered. I discovered that every year, when the exam id in progress, students break down with illness in the midst of writing their exam.
Do you know what I do?, I go to the student and ask them if I could pray for them. Usually they oblige (irrespective of whether they are Christians or Moslems). I pray for them in the name of Jesus Christ AND they are healed. No shouting and very shory prayers (the kind you can only do within an exam hall).
You know what!? Everyone I prayed for got healed to the Glory of Jesus Christ.
**I even thought I had the gift of healing then but no! It was Just Christ in me doing His work.
What do you think Jesus would have done as an Invigilator in such exam?
2. As an exam officer, I noticed that a Muslim girl was about loosing her studentship (she had spent the maximum number of years permitted) and three of her papers could not be found. She was weeping and lamenting because thatvhad been her situation almost every year till that time.
I called her into my office, preached Christ to her. She actually became born again inside my office. The next day, I prayed a prayer of Deliverance for her in my office. The demon manifested itself in my office AND she vomited everywhere onbthe floor. The demon was cast out (Saturday afternoon). By Monday afternoon, all her results were found including the ones that looked impossible to find because of time.
She came to my church to look for me in appreciation when her name came out for NYSC.
What do you think Jesus would have done as a Christian Exam Officer in the school?
I am NOT a Pastor
I do not have any spectacular Spiritual gifts
I am justvan ordinary Christian, used of Christ.
There is nothing really Spiritually unique about me except that know Jesus, He knows me and He has sealed me with His Holy Spirit.
I take no glory in these testimonies but return all glory to God.
But these are examples to the glory of God that every believer should follow
"And into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you, eat such things as are set before you: And heal the sick that are therein, and say unto them, The kingdom of God is come nigh unto you."
How can these signs follow them who believe when such have blocked the possibility of any signs following them.
|Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by shadeyinka(m): 12:13am On May 17|
[/b]The ministry of Jesus is divided into three major parts
1. Preaching and Teaching the Word
2. Healing the Sick
3. Casting out Demons
I understand that you believe that Healing and Casting out demons have ceased.
Paul shows that he was not just preaching philosophy because Jesus Christ validated his ministry Just as the Father validated the ministry of Jesus with signs.
"And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:"
The bible says in the last days, apart from the ungodliness that will permeate the earth, many would be religious (having a form of godliness) but denying the power in the gospel to Save, to Heal and to Deliver from the power of darknesd
"Having a form of godliness , but denying the power thereof: from such turn away."
Part of the problem emanating from those who believe that Miracles, Signs and Spiritual gifts have ceased is that Jesus didnt specifically commission them and that Jesus commissioned only the 12: disciples.
Mat 10:1: "And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease."
But, what is required is not an expresd commission BUT Faith in Christ. In Mark 9:38-39, we see someone who was never part of the Apostles but doing the work of Christ with power.
But what did Jesus say: Forbid him NOT.
"And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbade him, because he followeth not us. But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me."
Everyone who believes have the Powerband Authority of Christ. But unbelieve can be caused by doctrines that negate operating in the power of Christ.
"And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover."
IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS
|Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by Maximus69: 4:56am On May 17|
It's like you're not satisfied with just the presentations of what each person believes, you feel like making corrections in the views of others whose beliefs differs from yours. But that is not what i called maturity, to be matured each person presents his/her beliefs and convictions for the other person to know where you're standing!
So let me express my PERSONAL opinions on SIGNS and WONDERS.
God never intended that man should get sick, grow old or die, neither was there any plans to start casting out demons from his earthly children. All of these are circumstantial because if Adam did not succumb to the rebellious act in Eden, Adam's children wouldn't have needed healing of any sort, neither do we need Jesus here on earth for any reason whatsoever!
After Adam and Eve have disobeyed God, they brought upon all their progenies different manner of infirmities ranging from deformity of their body parts, malfunctioning of their inner system and the CHANCE for Satan and other rebellious angels to invade their habitation[earth]
God's promises about Paradise centers on how all such misappropriate issues will be PERMANENTLY resolved.
So when Jesus came to PREACH [make presentations of all the good tidings] most of his listeners liked to ask him thought provoking question about how all these evil things began. John 9:2
That is why he must TEACH [inculcate in them] all the virtues of his heavenly father whom Satan's act have tainted his good name amongst humans! Matthew 6:9
The miracles [signs and wonders] is for two main reasons:
(1) To help impress in the hearts of all his listeners that God [his father] can surely restore everything back to normal.
(2) To prove that Jesus is the promised King under whose rule everything will become perfect just like in Eden.
So before his coming and when he was going back to heaven, there were different religious sects claiming to be worshipers of the God of Abraham in Israel.
Gentiles who wanted to join God's people in pure worship needed to know that God is no more using any sect except only Jesus' group. Moreover Satan wanted to corrupt the new formed group with his corrupt influence! That is why there must be signs and wonders as approval of the Apostles and those with them from the God of Israel whose fame has gone both far and near.
Today the Bible is complete so there is NO need for any signs to prove anything since everyone can read the messages of Jesus group in any part of the earth. Even the Quran quoted that there is a book in the hands of the Jews that needed to be studied for anyone who wants to have good standing with the true God so there is no excuse for anyone now. Quran 10:94-95 compared to Romans 1:20
That is why the signs and wonders is no more part of pure worship in our time but LOVE for God and neighbours demonstrated by our virtuous deeds as evidence of our FAITH! 1Corinthians 13
Just like the thief Jesus gave his word as a promised that he will be in Paradise, the other thief insisted on the signs and wonders when they're getting the full punishment for their acts but there is time for everything! Matthew 12:39, 16:4 compared to Ecclesiastes 3:1
So while one put his faith in Jesus, the other kept demanding for miracles. Jesus only attended to the one who aknowledge him as the promised King despite the pains both himself and Jesus were experiencing! Luke 23:42
Satan is the one behind all these signs and wonders today! They will only concentrate on those signs but there will be no fruit of God's holy spirit in them as they can't unite people from different races, rather their followers will still be fight and killing one another due to RACISM! Revelations 16:13-14
That is why Jesus said many in our own time will think they're on his side but he will tell them 'we're not on the same page' Matthew 7:21-23
|Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by Maximus69: 5:15am On May 17|
shadeyinka:NO i don't have any more questions for you!
I think both of us have made enough PRESENTATIONS of what we believe.
I don't know if you still have any further questions, but as for me i'm OK!
Let all other followers read through our presentations now so that whoever have anything to ask can do so.
As for me, i am one of Jehovah's Witnesses [Watchtower Global family]
So if any follower have questions after reading through these presentations, let him approach my brothers and sisters coming to knock on their doors for further explanations. Jehovah's Witnesses have one faith throughout the earth! Ephesians 4:5
I will only attend to questions from Mr alBHAGDADI and you, as the three of us knows the rules guiding our tactful friendly discussions!
|Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by alBHAGDADI: 5:54am On May 17|
1. How does one get saved?
2. Can one lose the salvation?
|Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by Maximus69: 7:19am On May 17|
alBHAGDADI:Good morning Sir, i hope we respectfully and tactfully make PRESENTATIONS of our beliefs without any contentious acts. There is no need to CORRECT one other views and there is no reason to abuse, insult , curse, agitate or argue over our differences.
I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses. So may i know the group to which you belong?
|Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by alBHAGDADI: 7:28am On May 17|
Just answer the question. All I need is an answer. I might not even react to it.
|Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by Maximus69: 7:36am On May 17|
Each person must first PRESENT the group with which he associates as a believer.
Each person must show appreciation for the others earnest effort to have time for God's word.
Each person must explain the reason for his conviction.
Each person must display a high measure of self control while reading the response of the other.
So i need to know your religious group [denomination] first before proceeding further in the friendly discuss!
|Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by Maximus69: 7:57am On May 17|
Thanks for your time Sir.
You are doing great and your effort well appreciated for adding God's word to your daily routine!
May the true God continue to bless our earnest efforts as we strive each day to draw ever closer to him! James 4:8
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