@op
Don't mind them, there is something psychologically wrong with some of this Igbo fellows.
Could this be due to resdue of the after effects of the civil war? They seems to have a
peculiar need for revisionism. May be is due to their guilty consciences for causing the
calamities that befell them. Re-versing historic facts won't help, others have account
and records other than the Igbo. There are no Igbo homeland west of the Niger. Igbo
west of the Niger river are migrant worker/dwellers. Osadebey is not an Igbo name.

amazonia:

@op
Don't mind them, there is something psychologically wrong with some of this Igbo fellows.
Could this be due to resdue of the after effects of the civil war? They seems to have a
peculiar need for revisionism. May be is due to their guilty consciences for causing the
calamities that befell them. Re-versing historic facts won't help, others have account
and records other than the Igbo. There are no Igbo homeland west of the Niger. Igbo
west of the Niger river are migrant worker/dwellers. Osadebey is not an Igbo name.

i wonder whether osita osadebe's fore father's were bini?

@asha,
Yes the osadebeys, like other original indigence of the area are of Edo origin
The ancient Bini-empire encompasses those geographic territories. So in the
event of the demise and fragmentation of present day Nigeria, we the Edos
will reconstitute our old Bini-kingdom. Asaba, Agbor, ogwashu-uku etc are
bonefieled part of Edo heritage.

amazonia:

@asha,
Yes the osadebeys, like other original indigence of the area are of Edo origin
The ancient Bini-empire encompasses those geographic territories. So in the
event of the demise and fragmentation of present day Nigeria, we the Edos
will reconstitute our old Bini-kingdom. Asaba, Agbor, ogwashu-uku etc are
bonefieled part of Edo heritage.

keep dreaming.same people you call owe igbo?

moreover the osita osadebe i wrote there is from atani in anambra state so i wonder how he has bini ancestry.

amazonia:

@asha,
Yes the osadebeys, like other original indigence of the area are of Edo origin
The ancient Bini-empire encompasses those geographic territories. So in the
event of the demise and fragmentation of present day Nigeria, we the Edos
will reconstitute our old Bini-kingdom. Asaba, Agbor, ogwashu-uku etc are
bonefieled part of Edo heritage.

It is an outright stupididy to claim that Bini empire extended to Asaba instead of claiming westward expansion to Lagos. You are scared of the Yorubas. I do not know if you were born by 1987 to note that one of the survivors of the British sack of Oba's palace was an Igboman. During the Bini centenary of 1987, one of the eye-witness accounts was narrated in Igbo by an Igbo who lived in the Oba's palace as a boy then.
That goes a long way to show that Igbo people lived in Bini also. The misunderstanding between this Igbo groups and Oba Ewuare in the 16th century probably led to the Eastward movement of this Igbo groups.
Despite Bini influence, Igbo language is still retained as well as Igbo culture.

@Asha,
         Yes, in Benin, we do colloquially refer to them as ovbe-Igbo.
         That doesn't mean we don't know they are not Igbo.We
         call them Igbo because they speak igbo,although they do
         have their own dialects, that are often a hybrids of Edo
         intonations. The Royal palace till today plays vital part in
         the coronations of Obi and other traditional leadership positions in these communities.
         The great-grand son of oba Ovoramen is the current traditional leader of Owa.
          My friend you are the one dreaming. You seems not to know your limits (boundaries).

amazonia:

@Asha,
Yes, in Benin, we do colloquially refer to them as ovbe-Igbo.
That doesn't mean we don't know they are not Igbo.We
call them Igbo because they speak igbo,although they do
have their own dialects, that are often a hybrids of Edo
intonations. The Royal palace till today plays vital part in
the coronations of Obi and other traditional leadership positions in these communities.
The great-grand son of oba Ovoramen is the current traditional leader of Owa.
My friend you are the one dreaming. You seems not to know your limits (boundaries).

This post of yours is a very stupendous one. You should be more concerned with the small size of the Binis compared to Delta Igbo. Was there an epidemic that wiped off the larger percentage of the Bini people?.
Have you not wondered why Eze Chima and his descendants are all Igbo till date, speak Igbo language and practice Igbo culture.
Why do they attend Igbo meetings instead of Bini meetings.

@ andre Uweh,
                     Mr, i am neither stupid nor afraid of nobody or groups.
                     I have no doubt that there were always igbo in Edo.
                     Unlike most contemporary Igbos, I, and quite a few
                     other Edos knows that the word Igbo is an Edo word.
                     We do know that some of our land and people span
                      westward up to Togo, Benin republic, and Ghana. And
                      eastward also. The yoruba are well awhile of their
                      Yoruba/Edo heritage. Their traditional leaders do pay
                      periodic homages to our ancestral shrine in the palace.
                      But my Igbo brothers have been intellectualized to death.
                      Up to the extent of denying their heritage and claiming
                      Judea/Israel ancestry.What is that all about?

Of course, there is no doubt that these people today speaks igbo language.
That does not make them Igbo. Our children growing up today in England
speaks English and some are British citizens, that doesn't mean they are
English,welsh, Irish nor Scottish. So if Ika and others speaks igbo to facilitate
their commerce that do not make them Igbo. Though, there are true Igbos
citizens there, they came from the east of the Niger river.

amazonia:

Of course, there is no doubt that these people today speaks igbo language.
That does not make them Igbo. Our children growing up today in England
speaks English and some are British citizens, that doesn't mean they are
English,welsh, Irish nor Scottish. So if Ika and others speaks igbo to facilitate
their commerce that do not make them Igbo. Though, there are true Igbos
citizens there, they came from the east of the Niger river.

Am only replying you because you are more intelligent than the original poster. Have a look at Edo state, Even the Ishans and Etsakos are not Binis. Bini is Oredo and sorronding areas. The Bini empire rose to high prominence under Ewuare the great. But It does not mean that those groups who were annexed by Ewuare's expanding empire became automatically Binis. So do not turn logic upside down.
Would an Owoh, Ekiti and Ondo people accept that they are Binis because at a certain time they fell under Ewuare's great might. In the same vain, why should Igbo communities east of Bini claim Bini. I think, the biggest influence of Bini on Western Igbo is in Kingship.

amazonia:

Of course, there is no doubt that these people today speaks igbo language.
That does not make them Igbo. Our children growing up today in England
speaks English and some are British citizens, that doesn't mean they are
English,welsh, Irish nor Scottish. So if Ika and others speaks igbo to facilitate
their commerce that do not make them Igbo. Though, there are true Igbos
citizens there, they came from the east of the Niger river.

So at what point did they hire Igbo people to teach them Igbo language and change their names?.

@ andre, pls don,t rewrite history, the ishans and the etsakos are from benin, do you know the meaning of agenegbode on the banks of the river niger in edo state? it means " we will not cross" they came all the way from benin and at agenebode they refuse to cross,  all these places all across the banks of the niger were the frontiers of the benin kingdom northwards including eastward. like amazonia rightly said because the ika people speak igbo, dose not make them igbos.

Andre Uweh:

Am only replying you because you are more intelligent than the original poster. Have a look at Edo state, Even the Ishans  and Etsakos are not Binis. Bini is Oredo and sorronding areas. The Bini empire rose to high prominence under Ewuare the great. But It does not mean that those groups who were annexed by Ewuare's expanding empire became automatically Binis. So do not turn logic upside down.
Would an Owoh, Ekiti and Ondo people accept that they are Binis because at a certain time they fell under Ewuare's great might. In the same vain, why should Igbo communities east of Bini claim Bini. I think, the biggest influence of Bini on Western Igbo is in Kingship

and like you rightly said the influence is in kingship, the king owns every thing, the king tells the people who they are.

df2006:

and like you rightly said the influence is in kingship, the king owns every thing, the king tells the people who they are.

Yea, just like Oba Akenzua told the Nigerian army that the people who live after Abudu are Igbo. The rest is now history.

df2006:

and like you rightly said the influence is in kingship, the king owns every thing, the king tells the people who they are.

But why are their kings more inclined to Igbo organisations than Bini organisations?. Am sure you will not answer this question as you guys have not answered my previous questions.

df2006:

@ andre, pls don,t rewrite history, the ishans and the etsakos are from benin, do you know the meaning of[b] agenegbode [/b] on the banks of the river niger in edo state? it means " we will not cross" they came all the way from benin and at agenebode they refuse to cross, all these places all across the banks of the niger were the frontiers of the benin kingdom northwards including eastward. like amazonia rightly said because the ika people speak igbo, dose not make them igbos.

Makurdi is an Hausa name, yet the people of Markurdi are not Hausas but Tivs. Eko is also a Bini word yet Lagosians are not Binis. Get it right.

amazonia:

Of course, there is no doubt that these people today speaks igbo language.
That does not make them Igbo. Our children growing up today in England
speaks English and some are British citizens, that doesn't mean they are
English,welsh, Irish nor Scottish. So if Ika and others speaks igbo to facilitate
their commerce that do not make them Igbo. Though, there are true Igbos
citizens there, they came from the east of the Niger river.

Ogoni and Okrika people traded more with the Igbo than Bini and Igbo. Yet Okrika and Ogoni are not Igbo, neither do they speak Igbo and bear Igbo names. I hope you guys are learning.

Andre Uweh:

But why are their kings more inclined to Igbo organisations than Bini organisations?. Am sure you will not answer this question as you guys have not answered my previous questions.

Ever heard of political realignment?

my friend i no dey for too much talk, you can write all you want, at the end of the day pickin wey lost sabi im tru father, we  will just go back and forth with no meaningful headway, it dose not mean much to me whether you are benin or igbo, no be wetin i go chop! how ever it is worrying the type of things you post

Andre Uweh:

Yea, just like Oba Akenzua told the Nigerian army that the people who live after Abudu are Igbo. The rest is now history.

non the least, very divisive, but i wonder? why do you guys carry so much hate? and bitterness

My family happens to be one of the Bini- Igbo migrants.I therefore think I am qualified to give a clearer view.During afa,we call the names by lineage up till the first bini migrant whose name is akaraka.akaraka is an Igbo name and not edo.I think he was actually from Agbor and settled briefly by the river bank before crossing the niger.Agbor always spoke Igbo as their language and bini as a palace language.Igbo starts from Igbanke in Edo state.

Abagworo:

My family happens to be one of the Bini- Igbo migrants.I therefore think I am qualified to give a clearer view.During afa,we call the names by lineage up till the first bini migrant whose name is akaraka.akaraka is an Igbo name and not edo.I think he was actually from Agbor and settled briefly by the river bank before crossing the niger.Agbor always spoke Igbo as their language and bini as a palace language.Igbo starts from Igbanke in Edo state.

WORD.

df2006:

Ever heard of political realignment?

my friend i no dey for too much talk, you can write all you want, at the end of the day pickin wey lost sabi im tru father, we will just go back and forth with no meaningful headway, it dose not mean much to me whether you are benin or igbo, no be wetin i go chop! how ever it is worrying the type of things you post

non the least, very divisive, but i wonder? why do you guys carry so much hate? and bitterness

There is no hatred between Ndigbo and Binis, so do not go there. Oba Akenzua, the predecessor to Erediuwa was asked to define the borders of Igbo and Bini, he he clearly did that. If you know your history, you will know what am talking about.
On political realignment, why did they choose to align with Ndigbo instead of Binis or other Nigerian groups. They even chose to fight on Igbo side during the Nigeria crisis.
Even Within EDO state, non Bini groups have not accepted been Bini talkless of Igbo groups.

u guys need to be coherent in ur argument, becomrich was arguing from the point that igbo immigrants from onitsha claimed bini land, u guys now claimed that bini indigenes bc of commerce started speaking igbo, and also changed their names bc of commerce? mehn! am lost at ur level of reasoning!

Arysexy:

u guys need to be coherent in your argument, becomrich was arguing from the point that igbo immigrants from onitsha claimed bini land, u guys now claimed that bini indigenes bc of commerce started speaking igbo, and also changed their names bc of commerce? mehn! am lost at your level of reasoning!

LMAO!!!

. . . Seriously overdoing an already overdone topic. That's what this discussion is doing. Anyway, there's a simple solution to all this madness. . . I just wonder if some people aren't so blind that they cannot see it with their own two koro koro eyes.

I don't known while you all got stucked in irrelevance.
That Igbos came from across the river westward and by
share numbers and vitality were able to dominate,shape
the cultural evolution of the indigence of these areas is
true.




@ Andre,
           I don't known were you got your information
           relating to your so called oba's proclamation.
           you all seems not to know the difference between
           Bini and Edo. Binis are the people of Benin city.
           Edo on the other hand, is the older of the two.
           It is the original name of the Binis and all others.
           You asked, why are the edo few? We might seem
            few to some. But we Binis don't think so. We known
            that we're rooted in the fundamental matrix of life.
            We see all others as emanating from this same matrix.
            Therefore, a continuation of the grandeur of life. That
             is Edo-nu-uzomo. propagation of life.

amazonia:

I don't known while you all got stucked in irrelevance.
That Igbos came from across the river westward and by
share numbers and vitality were able to dominate,shape
the cultural evolution of the indigence of these areas is
true.




@ Andre,
I don't known were you got your information
relating to your so called oba's proclamation.
you all seems not to know the difference between
Bini and Edo. Binis are the people of Benin city.
Edo on the other hand, is the older of the two.
It is the original name of the Binis and all others.
You asked, why are the edo few? We might seem
few to some. But we Binis don't think so. We known
that we're rooted in the fundamental matrix of life.
We see all others as emanating from this same matrix.
Therefore, a continuation of the grandeur of life. That
is Edo-nu-uzomo. propagation of life.

Let's be realistic. Etsako and Bini people do not speak the same language and have never done so. You as a Bini person, do you understand Etsako?. It is a pity that you have not heard about Western Igbo massacre by Nigerian soldiers and Oba Akenzua's role. This is an arguement you can not win. Even in Orhiwowon L. G.A IN Edo state, you have Igbankes who are more Igbo than Bini. True or false?.

@andre.It is high time you ignore those that post falsehood with regards to the Igbo nation and allow their thread die on its own.They do that as a bait to engage sentimental Igbos into inconclusive arguments and even reject written evidences right before there faces.

Ika dialect is still used in the catholic church throughout Igboland but I noticed where someone wrote that other igbo dialect was imposed on them by missionaries.If I am not mistaken "Osebuluwa" is Ika dialect.

ika has a language called ika ,it is a language that contains igbo,and also many edo words and other languages,if an ika person speaks igbo,then he or she has learnt it.
2. ika calls God oselobue or osenobue and not osebuluwa.
3. ika people have never claimed to be bini people ,but we recognise that most of our earliest ancestors came from benin, and it is true we also had igbo migrants who settled in ika land ,that is why ika has both bini and igbo cultures, but ika has greater number of bini culture from dance,royalty, deities,festivals and our way of live.
4. to call the ika man igbo is very offensive as no true ika man wants to be called igbo, we are simply ika people.
5. when the chips are down ika will remain ika, it has been tried and tested in 1967 when majority of ika people rejected following biafra.
6. ika people are mainly made up of western ,central and eastern ika communities, the eastern communities are near aniocha area and they speak ika and aniocha language like igbodo, ekwuoma and others, because these people are near igbo cultural areas ,and may be some of them have fore fathers who migrated from the eastern areas they often say they are igbo, but the vast majority of western and central ika will tell you they are ika ethnic group.
7. ika people have a socio-cultural group called onu/ogua ika headed by sunday osifoh, this is the highest body for the ika ethnic group as non of our kings or personalities belong to ohaneze ndi igbo, which is the highest group for igbos,but like i have said often times ika people always come under various attacks by people who want us to say we are igbo.
8. the ika people have made great progress in politics in delta state ,and we got it via merit,not by aligning to a major group, but even if it is necessarry to align ,ika people know which group to align with.
9. the family name of dein of agbor is gbenoba,so his full names would be kiagborekuzi gbenoba, his father was ikenchuku gbenoba, and his grand father was obika gbenoba aigbobu , i bet you know where their family name comes from, as for the obi of owa his names are emmanuel efeizomor obaigbena, his father was oboh efeizomor obaigbena, while his grand father was steven obaigbena , while his great grand father was called okundaiye.
10.the ika people have gone a long was in caving out our ethnic identity , so no pressure can pull us back, we know bini people call us eka, i have many bini people and i often visit bini as many of my family members live there and i also have relatives in owa-iru iguaza an owa town founded by my fore fathers in orhiowon in edo.
so we know who we are,and we are happy to say we are ika, just last year prince nduak obaigben of owa-the publisher of thisday newspaper was giving an interview in newyork times where they called him the duke of journalism, he described himself as an ika person from a small ethnic group called ika.that to me is an indication that ika people have come of age.

@OP

It is very amazing most Nigerians are very gullible and readily fall prey to hack writers. It is a mark of mental deficiency and intellectual anemia on the posters not to figure out disconnect in junk him or her posted. Anybody who has organized social order would have question the lapse in memory of the author. For example, the author seemed to know for fact EDE and his wife, IYE migrated to Umunede but could not fathom the exact date of this migration and moment of settlement. Yet the goofy author was able to remember the reign of Oba Ewedo the Great (1250-1280AD). What a fallacy.

when people recount history of their clan , there are usually several versions, but it contains several truth, there is a version of umunede story that talks about ede and iye being the founder , but the story said they met people, other elders say agbon and ede were brothers and prince of bini and they committed a crime and they ran away to found umunede , and later igbos came and yorubas came into umunede -what all these shows is that there was mixed migration.
2. some scholars say owa kingdom was founded by edogun/odogun son of ijue ,who was from ute-okpu,and that ijue came from anambra and later odogun went to fight in a war for the oba of benin,and later his junior brother was made king after the fathers death,so he went and founded owa, while some elders insist that odogun and ozomor his brother were from benin and that their father ijue was a prominent chief of the oba of benin,and so when problems broke out in bini ,he migrated to ute-okpu and later when there was war the oba sent for odogun and he went and the rest was history.
3. but the truth is that odogun was the first obi of owa ,but owa had been founded by bini-migrants from ekhoha in ovia local govt. some 600 years before odogun ,by adagba and later ugbasogun in a place called owa-ofien and owa- ekei, so later odogun as a warrior came from ute and conquered many of the community and at last their was a dispute between odogun and ofien people and the oba of benin decided that odogun should be the first obi , while ofien will become the oliha-ovia-that crowns the king.it is instructive to know that the king or leader of owa was living in ofien as at then , later the headquarters of a united owa was moved to oyibu to odogun.
4. even before odogun came migrants from bini/ishan had already settled in owa-oyibu ,so later other migrants from igboland, ora, ukwani, and other ika areas like agbor, otolokpo and others came and settled.
5. so what evolved was initially the first language was bini, later they also spoke igbo, and later a mix of igbo and edo was evolved and that is the language we call ika , like dodo wehenim okpan ni ri elu agara ni ri imughe.
if we dissect what i have said you will find edo and igbo words strung together.
dodo -means please , its an edo word
okpan is edo word for plate
agara - means chair
imughe- means room
while wehe- is a corrupt igbo form for bring
elu is igbo for up or ontop
that is how ika is and we are mindful of who we are.

Wene ni iri nma. Agbortean has said it all Ika people are Ika we are not igbo or bini our language is Ika

onyekabe:

Wene ni iri nma. Agbortean has said it all Ika people are Ika we are not igbo or bini our language is Ika

My brother you should not join in the band wagon. The issue we have been having with Agbotaen is that he groups every other person as Igbo in his comparison instead of the various branches like Aniocha,Ukwuani,Isuama,Ezza or Aro.

Every reason he gives cannot prove anything if he goes grouping all others as Igbo. Take Aro for example the same way you have Igbo and Bini in Ika is still the same way you have Igbo and Akpa(Ibibio) in both blood and dialect. Go up North, you have the Igbo Eze who also share same with Igala. It is like that in all parts of Igboland. So to avoid unnecessary waste of t