firestar:
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WackyJ1: Hello, wasn't it naruto's dad that explained it, what if shikamaru did not hear what he heard and was left to figuring it all out just from what is happening besides there are some variables that he cannot merely consider as an onlooker, which are
1, the fact that perhaps remnants of the previously shared chakra are still there and that naruto could reactivate them remotely
2. That naruto could connect his dad to everyone and do the Hiraishin on that scale
3. That the 4th had any markings outside the barrier. 
Mind you, kyuubi techniques are different from the FTG which is more like a family technique. Still i do admit that this is probably not a very strong defense

Rasengan and all it's variants are different justsus from the same source in my opinion except you want to classify them as one justsu. And i also believe that growth is being able to form the planetary rasengan and the rasenshuriken from the rasengan and apart from that the rest of his jutsu growth has been from the tailed beast which is just speed and power like you said. Every one grows in battle ability and the source of naruto's growth in power is the Kyuubi which shikamru doesn't have, going by what you put above shikamaru actually has only one jutsu apart from the general kage bunshin (which he would not even use anyway) and his growth is in manipulating that justsus in different ways with his average chakra and you'd agree with me that Naruto has more resources to manage than Shikamaru

I well i'll agree with the addition of shikaku and madara but i don't think so for Kakashi and shodaime, theirs is probably battle experienced based, like from the pain vs jiraya part, jiraiya was able to keep up with pain in terms of intelligence but pain had the element of surprise and that's where he won the fight unlike itachi who used only 4 jutsus to defeat Sasuke in all the fight. What i mean is give naruto the level of battle experience and years that those people(Kakashi, shodaime) have and he#ll probably surpass them in battle intelligence with the stunts he's already pulling for his age.

Hidan has only one technique mind you and that is his Curse Technique: Death Controlling Possessed Blood apart from that nothing and then his weapon that he swings around with which his major tactic swinging it hoping to get a piece of his opponents blood and then using it to initiate the technique and you forget that it was the second time that shikamaru was seeing hidan in action as well as kakazu and he wasn't alone, it is right to believe that shikamaru could defeat hidan well and then shikamaru helped in that fight with hidan but the main combatants were kakashi and the rest.

and the Tool that the 'wise person' was referring to was the Sharingan and you know how many other tools that possessing this 'one tool' grants you so the saying cannot be applied to this case.

Tosyn007:

And what of having no body at all? Didn't you see the path of pain that got hit by the sage's rasenshuriken?

topcy90: it was till intact in your dreams lols. Go and read it again the body was torn to 1 millions pieces

kimco: kishi wrote him as an intelligent character so i expect intelligence from him...any deviation jux for the sake of the main character wont be tolerated.

Naruto was written as such and believe me, i sympathised with the guy. Cried when he did and laffed when he did. But then it got boring because it became the reason for upgrades in power. Last chapter is the biggest piece of junk ever. ''oh now u can mix natural jutsu with a bijuu dama.... with explanation even the main character can't swallow, and i'm supposed to swallow that. The upgrades are waaaay too much. If sasuke gets an upgrade, i'm done with this manga.

ledafaze:
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ABEG HELP ME ASK THEM... Most esp that Wacky guy...[/size]

SIR cum a lot:

On the contrary am not downplaying his is character am telling you his strong point he will never be among the best fighters but he would make a better hokage than anyone of them including Naruto . his team mates listen to him because they know a plan devise by Shikamaru is foolproof plan but if you need someone to lead the charge against the bad guys Naruto his your guy shikamaru will not inspire that kind of devotion.

Obito's acknowledgement of shiki as a formidable enemy doesn't mean Obito won't kill him in a fight but in places let say, War for instance where intelligence plays a very importance factor with shikamaru as General against Obito and his cohorts the smart money would be on Shikamaru even in impossible odds.

Naruto hoggs the spotlight coz he is the main character nobody watches justice league because of the Martian Man Hunter.

Tosyn007:

Exactly what i was saying lol..now imagine if that was Hidan?

kimco: the guys has withstood s class wind jutsu from kakuzu, withstood beatings from jinchurikis....don't u thinks he can handle rasenshuriken as well. I mean his body is built for that. he won't die...if two others haven't had their bodies torn apart...i believe he too can survive.

Mutaino7: @kimco u bliv bsm is an ass pull han. What about madara's death, itachi's izanami, obito using izanagi without going blind, hashirama monstrous wooden buddah, 3rd raikage fight with kyuubi, orochimaru resurrection, tsunade being cut in2 half. What u called ass pull did av a solid foundation as far back as pain arc kishi even 2uk his tym to xplain how it came to being. many naruto fan did predicted bsm as d next power up 4 naruto and am glad they are correct. as 4 those saying rasengan is rasengan they should also kip note that amaterasu nah amaterasu no matter the variant and susano will always b a susano.

Tosyn007:

What effect does Sage mode rasenshuriken have on the body?

Ihedinobi:
You're right it isn't. In fact, it's hardly a credible defence at all.

1. Naruto shared his chakra more than once on that battlefield before he shared it this last time, didn't he? Key to knowing what was possible was how chakra works. Do you suppose a genius like Shikamaru wouldn't know that little tidbit? If he knew how chakra ordinarily works, he'd have known whether Naruto could share his chakra again with people whom he'd shared it with before without physical contact with them. That's the first thing Naruto figured out. Matter of fact, it's the first thing Shikaku would have figured out.

2. Yondaime had already thought to move large bijuu dama, two of them, in fact. So moving every shinobi there could not have been a terribly difficult task. The part about Naruto connecting his dad to everyone was plain common sense.

3. Where was Yondaime going to move the bijuu dama if he tried to teleport them?

I don't get the part about Kyuuubi's techniques and the FTG.


That part about his growth being due to the Kyuubi is one very large and easily faultable assumption on your part.

The Kyuubi is a very big plus for Naruto, but perhaps only slightly more than the minus that it used to be for him. Do you remember when Jiraiya-dono explained that the Kyuubi's power may be shortening Naruto's life even though it helped him heal fast from his wounds and recover his strength rapidly?

What about when Naruto studied Senjutsu? Can you prove that it wasn't his Uzumaki genes that made him naturally disposed to it rather than the Kyuubi who notably didn't like Naruto having anything other power outside of him that he could rely on? If you remember well, the Kyuubi's freedom was more likely when Naruto either grew too angry or too weak and needed strength. So Senjutsu made it less likely that Naruto would come begging the Kyuubi for power.

Thus I disagree that Naruto's growth is attributable only to the Kyuubi. For some things, absolutely, but not nearly for everything.

As for jutsus, I consider all variants of the rasengan as one basic jutsu but if you disagree then we may class all the shadow binding techniques that Shikamaru has as an array of jutsus too. Thus, both are almost on a par jutsu-wise.


Not particularly the issue sha, but Kakashi did not become a jounin so young because he could finish a large bucket of ramen in record time And Shodaime did not build a vast collection of jutsus by being the dumbest shinobi alive. Geez! The dude fought a genius monster like Madara who had the Kyuubi too and wiped the floor with his asss! Even if it's battle-smartness, it was top-notch smartness, bro.


First, Hidan was not a careless fighter. He had only one deadly technique but he made it dangerous by making it a surprise, one, and two, by being clever about getting the blood. He didn t swing that obscene instrument "hoping" to get blood, he designed that weapon meaning to make it easy to draw blood with taijitsu. That's deviousness, bro. Hidan was a tough nut not only because of that dangerous technique but because he was unkillable too. Only a brain like Shikamaru's could deal well with him. And Shikamaru was almost a complete rookie when he took him down. How large was Shikamaru's jutsu array against Hidan? How big was his chakra? Joo, it's more than how many seals you know o.

Second, sharingan o, no sharingan o, tool na tool. How sophisticated a person's weapon is does not mean as much as how sophisticated a person is with their weapon. Chikena!

kimco:
Sage mode rasen shuriken? When was that one too mentioned? jux because he did it in sage doesn't mean it's a sage mode version. He did it in kyuubi mode too, is that one too kyuubi mode rasen shuriken?

Tosyn007:

I thought we were talking about Shikamaru and Sasuke, if you've got concrete facts, drop'em and we'll reason them out...
No one is an island of naruto knowledge

Baddestguyp: i'll give u anoda reason why this argument is a waste of time. Reason: shikamaru is smart. U cant predict his moves. Thats y u cant really compare them. If it was a naruto vs sasuke argument, we'll compare them in terms of powers but u cant compare shikamaru dat way. U cant predict his strategy. U agree with me that an army of 10,000 can defeat one of 100,000 right? So also can shikamaru defeat someone way more powerful than he is. If only kishi would give more focus on shikamaru

Mutaino7: @kimco u bliv bsm is an ass pull han. What about madara's death, itachi's izanami, obito using izanagi without going blind, hashirama monstrous wooden buddah, 3rd raikage fight with kyuubi, orochimaru resurrection, tsunade being cut in2 half. What u called ass pull did av a solid foundation as far back as pain arc kishi even 2uk his tym to xplain how it came to being. many naruto fan did predicted bsm as d next power up 4 naruto and am glad they are correct. as 4 those saying rasengan is rasengan they should also kip note that amaterasu nah amaterasu no matter the variant and susano will always b a susano.

Tosyn007:

I don't wanna an advocate of controversy on this thread, if not, I might said more but lemme say this, Shikamaru is very smart and there's no disputing the fact that he can defeat a shinobi more powerful than he is, but smarter is one of the most balanced shinobi cos he has a perfect blend of intelligence and power(just like Minato), if we are to go by how Kishi designed them, then I can say that Sasuke will beat Shikamaru...and your saying 'if Kishi' is to me like admitting that Sasuke will beat Shikamaru.

Baddestguyp: i dont even understand ur post so i'll just make a little correction. When obito used izanagi, he lost his left sharingan nd replaced it with nagato's rinnegan.

Baddestguyp: all tinz being equal, shikamaru would've defeated sasuke at sasuke's level at that time just as u said. If u had said sasuke vs shikamaru wit sasuke's recent abilities i would agree. Btw, wen i meant all things being equal, i meant without absurd power ups or "MAGIC" from kishi as we all know sasuke should've been dead 4rm season 1

cnwamo: i thought he gave the sharingan to Kakashi? or did he have another spare sharingan?

cnwamo: i thought he gave the sharingan to Kakashi? or did he have another spare sharingan?

kimco:
Sage mode rasen shuriken? When was that one too mentioned? jux because he did it in sage doesn't mean it's a sage mode version. He did it in kyuubi mode too, is that one too kyuubi mode rasen shuriken?

kimco: i dnt agree with ur first point. According to explanations...the nine tails chakra in both fada nd son had to sync. How was shikamaru to know that naruto's fada's kyuubi had awakened. only both of dem cud know cos they resonated. Hope i'm clear.

The rest i agree 1000%

Baddestguyp: yes, he had many sef in stock. How he got them wasnt shown. Watch the scene in the anime again. His left sharingan closed as he was explaining to konan afta stabbing her