stormborn28:



yeah...reason y u will tell ur mechanic not to test ur car in ur absence

^^^
That may be quite hard to do in practice.

There are many people who simply don't have the time or opportunity to go to the mechanic's place or go on road testing with them. These customers simply ask the mechanic to show up to pick up their cars, fix them, do all the road testing required and return the vehicles. How do you take care of such people?

VolvoS60:


^^^
Good contribution. But serving the offender notice may be hard to do in practice.

My old work address is on my vehicle licence. I left that place years ago and haven't updated my details on autoreg. My other auto documents - roadworthiness certificate, insurance etc. also have invalid addresses. How can I be served? And I know there are hundreds of thousands of motorists in the same position.

Even if offenders are served, I can imagine most will simply ignore the notice until a big stick is wielded. And that's where things will get difficult - every day there are hundreds of thousands of traffic offences committed. At any point in time, there will no doubt be a huge backlog of new and serial traffic offenders with the number increasing exponentially. Arresting all these offenders over their failure to pay will be a logistical nightmare. There are simply not enough police/FRSC/bailiffs to do this.

P.S. Ignore those who are talking about politics. They are only interested in the problem and not the solution.

I get your point, it will be difficult to implement but it is possible especially if the number plate of the car is noted. That way, the vehicle can be tracked. But we will need a more effective and digital law enforcement agency rather than what we have now. We just have to bring back some form of sanity in our system.

VolvoS60:


^^^
That may be quite hard to do in practice.

There are many people who simply don't have the time or opportunity to go to the mechanic's place or go on road testing with them. These customers simply ask the mechanic to show up to pick up their cars, fix them, do all the road testing required and return the vehicles. How do you take care of such people?

they must partners in insuring ur car for traffic offence if it happens with them... So your payment will be after ur car is returned to u

patrickmuf:
I get your point, it will be difficult to implement but it is possible especially if the number plate of the car is noted. That way, the vehicle can be tracked. But we will need a more effective and digital law enforcement agency rather than what we have now. We just have to bring back some form of sanity in our system.

^^^
Good point about digital, effective law enforcement. But sadly, that doesn't seem to be a priority of government. And that's why the 'serving offenders notice' option is unlikely to succeed - at least for now.

The Alibaba option attracted my attention because it looks like it may considerably reduce the madness on our roads - and in a very short time frame too. There are few deterrents like 'government direct debit' via BVN. The problem (and it is admittedly a big one) with this proposal is potential abuse by government. And that's why I proposed special appeal courts to handle appeals by alleged offenders - courts with specialist know-how in handling video evidence etc.

I think Alibaba's plan (or at least elements of it) will work.


P.S. You mentioned tracking vehicles by number plate. Is this really possible? Picture this: My name is Abubakar Amechi Abiodun. My last known address on my vehicle documents with MVAA is c/o Lagos State civil service. But I no longer work there. I am untraceable through MVAA documents - I no longer use the phone lines I supplied on their database and I no longer reside at the address I supplied. For argument's sake, let us assume there are millions of people in Nigeria with the name Abubakar Amechi Abiodun. How can I be traced?

stormborn28:
they must partners in insuring ur car for traffic offence if it happens with them... So your payment will be after ur car is returned to u

^^^
How will you get your mechanic to co-insure your car while it is in their possession?

Not sure what you mean about payment taking place after your car is returned to you...please explain.

VolvoS60:


^^^
How will you get your mechanic to co-insure your car while it is in their possession?

Not sure what you mean about payment taking place after your car is returned to you...please explain.

if your car is booked in their possession, u simply deduct it from what u are to pay

stormborn28:
if your car is booked in their possession, u simply deduct it from what u are to pay

^^^
You may have a point there, actually.

I guess before anyone drops their cars with mechanics, the terms will be clearly spelled out: any traffic fines will be deducted from your pay.

VolvoS60:


^^^
Good point about digital, effective law enforcement. But sadly, that doesn't seem to be a priority of government. And that's why the 'serving offenders notice' option is unlikely to succeed - at least for now.

The Alibaba option attracted my attention because it looks like it may considerably reduce the madness on our roads - and in a very short time frame too. There are few deterrents like 'government direct debit' via BVN. The problem (and it is admittedly a big one) with this proposal is potential abuse by government. And that's why I proposed special appeal courts to handle appeals by alleged offenders - courts with specialist know-how in handling video evidence etc.

I think Alibaba's plan (or at least elements of it) will work.


P.S. You mentioned tracking vehicles by number plate. Is this really possible? Picture this: My name is Abubakar Amechi Abiodun. My last known address on my vehicle documents with MVAA is c/o Lagos State civil service. But I no longer work there. I am untraceable through MVAA documents - I no longer use the phone lines I supplied on their database and I no longer reside at the address I supplied. For argument's sake, let us assume there are millions of people in Nigeria with the name Abubakar Amechi Abiodun. How can I be traced?

I am referring to the number plate of the car, it can be flagged so that wherever that number plate is seen, the driver can be arrested by law enforcement agents. That's to say, they must all have a device that keeps records (Number plate and make of the vehicle) of traffic offenders who have yet to comply. It's a rough idea that can be polished and put to good use.

VolvoS60:


^^^
You may have a point there, actually.

I guess before anyone drops their cars with mechanics, the terms will be clearly spelled out: any traffic fines will be deducted from your pay.

yeah...that is it

patrickmuf:
I am referring to the number plate of the car, it can be flagged so that wherever that number plate is seen, the driver can be arrested by law enforcement agents. That's to say, they must all have a device that keeps records (Number plate and make of the vehicle) of traffic offenders who have yet to comply. It's a rough idea that can be polished and put to good use.

^^^
OK.

We will get there someday.

VolvoS60:


^^^
Fair point.

But like I mentioned to another poster - service may be a problem. The CMR and Autoreg databases are full of old, invalid addresses. How will the offenders be served? Or their property be impounded for non-compliance?

It may seem unusual to punish someone (by direct debit ) for an alleged offence but what if it is clear (from the video evidence) that the offender did indeed commit? Is it necessary to send a ticket when it is an open and shut case?

The potential problem in all this is abuse of the process by government. I would propose that special courts (NOT funded by government) be set up for alleged offenders to appeal an unfair debit. If the alleged offender wins the appeal then his money and all bank charges are refunded with interest AND he is also awarded costs.

There are no "open and shut cases" - if there were, we'd give the police permission to execute people instead of taking them to court. If someone confesses to murder, that's an open and shut case, right? Yet the FBI has handled cases where the person that confessed turned out to be innocent - that is why in law you say it's so "on the face of it". In the matter at hand, you have to think of camera angle, hacking, etc.

Even if you implement this system as suggested, the database problem would still occur - if you don't have a functional database system. In Europe, what they do, after you have ignored repeated reminders, is come to your house, open your door and pick up some property - they have a database that ensures they know your residence and the bailiff people have a master key that opens every door!

No, you can't have courts that are outside of government - that a non-starter. It's even unnecessary. I'm sure what you have in mind is a special court, like a tribunal. But I think the appeal system would be fine although the system of fining everyone first and then refunding them would be inefficient in my view.

JuanDeDios:

There are no "open and shut cases" - if there were, we'd give the police permission to execute people instead of taking them to court. If someone confesses to murder, that's an open and shut case, right? Yet the FBI has handled cases where the person that confessed turned out to be innocent - that is why in law you say it's so "on the face of it". In the matter at hand, you have to think of camera angle, hacking, etc.

^^^
I used the term "open and shut cases" to describe traffic offences captured on camera. In North America for example, traffic fines/tickets from red light cameras and automated speed enforcement systems are almost impossible to refute. Such tickets are not usually contested in court by the offender, simply because the weight of the evidence is not on his side. On a lighter note, it is quite a stretch for you to move from fining a motorist (caught on camera running a stop sign) to giving police permission to shoot people without trial. They are worlds apart.

JuanDeDios:

Even if you implement this system as suggested, the database problem would still occur - if you don't have a functional database system. In Europe, what they do, after you have ignored repeated reminders, is come to your house, open your door and pick up some property - they have a database that ensures they know your residence and the bailiff people have a master key that opens every door!

^^^
Sadly you are right about the database problem. If things were ideal here then we wouldn't even be having this conversation -- the issue is how to work around the constraints we have here and now. But one way around it is to make it mandatory to link vehicle licences to BVN - i.e. you cannot renew your vehicle licence unless you provide your BVN to link it to. This will definitely work faster than the whole "repeated service of notice to offenders and arrest for non-compliance" model. We simply don't have the logistics support to make the European model work here.

JuanDeDios:

No, you can't have courts that are outside of government - that a non-starter. It's even unnecessary. I'm sure what you have in mind is a special court, like a tribunal. But I think the appeal system would be fine although the system of fining everyone first and then refunding them would be inefficient in my view.

^^^
Yes, what I have in mind is a tribunal that is not funded through the normal channels. This tribunal should be funded through a first line charge on the state's accounts (I think quite a number of other government agencies should also be funded through a first line charge but that's a debate for another day). it may require special legislation but that shouldn't be a problem if the powers that be actually want to solve the problem.

You are right - imposing fines and then reversing them is indeed costly and inefficient. A way to minimize reckless imposition of fines would be to have the state refund all fines with interest (as well as having some form of costs awarded against government) to all motorists who win their appeals at these special courts. With this, traffic officials will take their jobs seriously. Another recommendation would be for some government funds to be placed in an escrow account from which motorists who win their appeals will be paid immediately. (Whether this will see the light of day is another matter entirely).

x6blade:
see cheap hoe! Looking for shots, go and spread your pussy for clients , community borehole

STFU you short broke man

tohyorsih2:



STFU you short broke man

cheap hoe ,you need money ? Ask me I'll give you , don't assume everyone is like you broke and desperate . All this small girls that have mouths bigger than their accounts

x6blade:
cheap hoe ,you need money ? Ask me I'll give you , don't assume everyone is like you broke and desperate . All this small girls that have mouths bigger than their accounts

See him broke shaming me when it's obvious that i can feed and cloth you and your entire family…all these short people self

If you think putting on a leather jacket in summer, putting on two different shoes or even posing with outdated cars(that aren't yours) means you're rich then, you must be sick in the head

PS: this is the last time i'll honor you with a reply you dingbat

tohyorsih2:



See him broke shaming me when it's obvious that i can feed and cloth you and your entire family…all these short people self

If you think putting on a leather jacket in summer, putting on two different shoes or even posing with outdated cars(that aren't yours) means you're rich then, you must be sick in the head

PS: this is the last time i'll honor you with a reply you dingbat

look at this cheap hoe ,I have other cars if you want to see , drop your pride and ask if you need money, here is equivalent of a million naira sitting in my house , I'll help you , stop coming here to act like you have anything , all this front will take you no where ,plus I eat faceless bitchés like you for breakfast