Michellekabod2:
hold on a second, you believe that it is only women that are been shackled by stereotypes? Wow! If you hold up to this view then I doubt that having an argument with you on this matter is futile and will lead no where....
Keep throwing darts on piggish men and ignoring(or finding excuses) for piggish women....

Remain blessed!

You might want to show where I "ignore or find excuses for piggish women", but while you are searching, no, I do not believe "only women are being shackled by stereotypes". I am Nigerian, "shackled by stereotypes" wherever we are, but you should not expect me to fight for the unshackling of others when I have not unshackled myself.

If men feel shackled let them become masculinists and fight their own battle or join us feminists and fight for equality.

And note. I do not argue. I discuss. Except where pigs are concerned, of course.

budaatum:

You might want to show where I "ignore or find excuses for piggish women", but while you are searching, no, I do not believe "only women are being shackled by stereotypes". I am Nigerian, "shackled by stereotypes" wherever we are, but you should not expect me to fight for the unshackling of others when I have not unshackled myself.

If men feel shackled let them become masculinists and fight their own battle or join us feminists and fight for equality.

And note. I do not argue. I discuss. Except where pigs are concerned, of course.

Silence means consent.the fact I have seen no post of yours concerning piggish women gave me that conclusion.
I am glad you have confirmed where you stand in the last paragraph,that you fight women's rights and men are own their own. Now you have openly confirmed where you stand,YOUR CHOICE IS WELL RESPECTED AND ACCEPTED,and thus I will never query or criticise any post of yours as regards to gender issues....
Likewise me, I hereby declare that I fight for equality of both sexes which involves elevating the rights of men and women.
We both don't agree ,but it's very cool and I look forward to having healthy discussions with you

Michellekabod2:

Silence means consent.

It does? I better go say about everything then least my "silence means consent".

Will you pay me Michelle, because it's bound to take a lot of my time?

budaatum:

It does? I better go say about everything then least my "silence means consent".

Will you pay me Michelle, because it's bound to take a lot of my time?

oh,but the energy you use in tackling piggish men nko?
The Buda I know, is capable of debating with a person back to back for as long as possible ...
There is no excuse for not speaking up against piggish and neither is it compulsory to do so.. you owe no one an explanation for your choice

budaatum:

Would you like to explain to me "why man is man and woman is woman" so that I do understand, please?

Michael Jackson assuming a female outlook resonates pretty damn with my being . You are choking me with these " strange' truths.

Michellekabod2:

The fact I disagree with you doesn't mean I have let misogynists come into my head. I live confidently in a world of my own free from misogynists or hypocritical girls!
If you a defining feminism based on only socio-political aspect that means you disagree with chimamanda adichie that spoke on "mudane" matters....the fact is feminism can't be achieved if stereotype are not taken off.
Stoping things like shaming of female non virgins, female consumers of alcohol et Al is not the aim of feminism?

This "choice" you keep on echoing, can't bring about equality of both genders! So people have the choice to misogynists or to practice patriarchy? No one is enforcing any modus operandi on a feminist but there are choices you make your own self that makes you less equal to a man. And when such issues occur and you still want to define such act as feminism people like you will say it's a choice still. For example,if a feminist believes that a female is to do all the house chores,that isn't equality, but you liberalchick will still claim that is a matter of choice for a female to uphold such stereotype and thus is still a feminist.

Do kindly research on feminism and how it is practiced in other parts of the world. Check up Solomon Buchi posts on feminism and if you know of sites that enlighten more on feminism kindly refer me to such as no one is an island....
Lots of love to you!

I didn’t say feminism could only be defined based on socio-political issues, I didn’t go into sexism because I didn’t think it was relevant to my post. Obviously sexism is why we have gender inequality. There is a difference between a woman that decides to do all the house chores and respects another woman’s decision not to do so and a woman that believes it is the role of women to do house chores.

Choice is key to gender equality. Feminists fight For equal access to opportunities so people have more options to choose. I don’t like to quibble about the nuances in feminism, if someone believes in gender equality that’s good enough for me. I am not in the business of dictating to the person on how they should use such opportunities. It’s a slippery slope, there is a danger of turning into the misogynists we hate. Both sides of a coin, replacing one form of oppression with another. This is why some women that believe in gender equality (access to equal opportunities regardless of gender) don’t want to identify as feminists because some smug feminists look down on their choices. One of the aim of feminism is to allow women to define themselves however they choose.

I didn’t agree with Chimamanda when she came for Beyoncé, I didn’t agree with her when she bullied Hillary Clinton into changing her social media bio. She is a militant feminist. Hillary is a wife and a mother and there's nothing wrong with that. Her being a wife shouldn’t be less important than any of her other achievements. For some women being wives are important parts of their identities, insinuating that being a wife is not an equal choice as been a lawyer means she is effectively disempowering those women.

I am not for someone that believes she has the right to weigh in on how other women should define themselves. Since she has been the darling of the liberal media and raking in millions, has she used her star power to sponsor any bill in Nigeria that would promote gender equality? While she’s bogged down on petty things like “who opens a car door?” women like Dr Amadi are actually working to effect change. It’s because of her married women in Nigeria no longer need their husbands permission to obtain a passport. She used her money to take the government to court and won, this was just in 2009.

I live in the ‘other parts’ of the world and unlike some Nigerian feminists, feminists here are more interested in fighting for policies that would create actual change. No one cares if you want to wash the cloth in your house or you don’t want to cook soup. While some Nigerian feminists are on twitter arguing about who pays for transport fare, feminists here are on twitter bombarding their representatives on sponsoring bills that promotes equal pay for equal work so they can afford the transport fare. Here, feminists march for change.

liberalchick:


I didn’t say feminism could only be defined based on socio-political issues, I didn’t go into sexism because I didn’t think it was relevant to my post. Obviously sexism is why we have gender inequality. There is a difference between a woman that decides to do all the house chores and respects another woman’s decision not to do so and a woman that believes it is the role of women to do house chores.

Choice is key to gender equality. Feminists fight For equal access to opportunities so people have more options to choose. I don’t like to quibble about the nuances in feminism, if someone believes in gender equality that’s good enough for me. I am not in the business of dictating to the person on how they should use such opportunities. It’s a slippery slope, there is a danger of turning into the misogynists we hate. Both sides of a coin, replacing one form of oppression with another. This is why some women that believe in gender equality (access to equal opportunities regardless of gender) don’t want to identify as feminists because some smug feminists look down on their choices. One of the aim of feminism is to allow women to define themselves however they choose.

I didn’t agree with Chimamanda when she came for Beyoncé, I didn’t agree with her when she bullied Hillary Clinton into changing her social media bio. She is a militant feminist. Hillary is a wife and a mother and there's nothing wrong with that. Her being a wife shouldn’t be less important than any of her other achievements. For some women being wives are important parts of their identities, insinuating that being a wife is not an equal choice as been a lawyer means she is effectively disempowering those women.

I am not for someone that believes she has the right to weigh in on how other women should define themselves. Since she has been the darling of the liberal media and raking in millions, has she used her star power to sponsor any bill in Nigeria that would promote gender equality? While she’s bogged down on petty things like “who opens a car door?” women like Dr Amadi are actually working to effect change. It’s because of her married women in Nigeria no longer need their husbands permission to obtain a passport. She used her money to take the government to court and won, this was just in 2009.

I live in the ‘other parts’ of the world and unlike some Nigerian feminists, feminists here are more interested in fighting for policies that would create actual change. No one cares if you want to wash the cloth in your house or you don’t want to cook soup. While some Nigerian feminists are on twitter arguing about who pays for transport fare, feminists here are on twitter bombarding their representatives on sponsoring bills that promotes equal pay for equal work so they can afford the transport fare. Here, feminists march for change.

I myself condemned the act of chimamanda on Hillary and Beyonce. I personally love to do chores in my own home,I love to cook and cater for my home ,I don't enforce it on anyone.

The tone of this your post seems you are belittling the Nigerian women choice to fight for feminism only in mudane things and imply you feminists over there are fighting for a better cause..
The average nigerian lady isn't interested in politics and doesn't care much about earning equally with men. A naija girl's fufiled life is marriage and keeping her home , thus you shouldn't be surprised at the low energy they Invest in fighting for equal pays et Al...what's the cause of all this? Still stereotype! Sometimes fighting this stereotype of ladies only useful in marriage may be interpreted as overruling them of their choice to be house wives or not.
Advising a lady(not shaming) to pursue her career and her dreams doesn't mean one is stopping her from doing their choice. Alot of ladies need motivation

Michellekabod2:

I myself condemned the act of chimamanda on Hillary and Beyonce. I personally love to do chores in my own home,I love to cook and cater for my home ,I don't enforce it on anyone.

The tone of this your post seems you are belittling the Nigerian women choice to fight for feminism only in mudane things and imply you feminists over there are fighting for a better cause..
The average nigerian lady isn't interested in politics and doesn't care much about earning equally with men. A naija girl's fufiled life is marriage and keeping her home , thus you shouldn't be surprised at the low energy they Invest in fighting for equal pays et Al...what's the cause of all this? Still stereotype! Sometimes fighting this stereotype of ladies only useful in marriage may be interpreted as overruling them of their choice to be house wives or not.
Advising a lady(not shaming) to pursue her career and her dreams doesn't mean one is stopping her from doing their choice. Alot of ladies need motivation

It wasn’t my intention for my post to come across as belittling, my frustrations didn’t translate well. I am
Nigerian and I get frustrated that debates about feminism is often about trivial issues.

I think you underestimate Nigerian women, they are more than capable to discuss issues/policies that promote gender equality.

Ranchhoddas:
There's nothing to modify. That person knows nothing. There are privileges to being a woman that men should not/will not enjoy. This destroys the entire feminist movement.

Equal opportunity is already available to everyone in many parts of the world -- This is what feminism purports to be. But it's a smokescreen.
It is stupid feministic desire to change things you have not fully considered because it's the fad, the trending thing.
Feminism is trending now so everybody wants to "chook mouth".
Even people whose mental powers cannot power a wall clock.

Example: The Geneva convention brought a guideline for acceptable behavior during warfare. Women along with children are always to get preferential treatment for obvious reasons.
Any man worth the title will be satisfied with this. Does this make us unequal?
Should men start saying the Geneva convention rules of warfare be modified because we want to be equal?

Now that I think of it, I've never heard any feminist talk about the " inequality" here.

Fishy

Feminists are usually dumb people so maybe they just don't know.
Oooops...

Haha, I can name more. Women enjoy something I describe as status-by-association. For example, special recognitions are given to the wife of men of high status, e.g Presidents (first lady), Kings (queen), etc. Men generally will not be recognized if their wife is of high status.

Furthermore, feminist are not fighting for equal-of-opportunity, but equality-of-outcome, something that is an impractical impossibility. Their reasoning goes like this. If there are more male CEO than female, then it is oppression and patriarchy, while completely ignoring the fact that perhaps, the reason why there are fewer female CEO is also the reason why there are fewer female truck drivers, miners, and construction workers? Many of the loud-mouthed feminist I know personally studied courses that are low paid, such as liberal arts, philosophy, international relations etc, but somehow, it is the fault of patriarchy that they are paid less compared to men who indulge in STEM mostly, and a high paying career.

Most importantly, this invinscible ''glass ceiling'' that they yap about is the very thing that makes men attractive to them. Women find succesful men attractive, and by nature, will not go for men lesser than them in the economical rung. And as statistic has shown, that since the inception of feminism, women happiness are steadily on the decline. They keep shooting themselves in the foot with third-wave feminism, but all it brings is chaos and more suffering to them. In the west, marriage is becoming a thing of the past, and men that actually want marriage do travel to third world countries that have not been affected by radical feminism to find a wife. Both genders are reaching a point of incompatibility.

pansophist:


Haha, I can name more. Women enjoy something I describe as status-by-association. For example, special recognitions are given to the wife of men of high status, e.g Presidents (first lady), Kings (queen), etc. Men generally will not be recognized if their wife is of high status.

Furthermore, feminist are not fighting for equal-of-opportunity, but equality-of-outcome, something that is an impractical impossibility. Their reasoning goes like this. If there are more male CEO than female, then it is oppression and patriarchy, while completely ignoring the fact that perhaps, the reason why there are fewer female CEO is also the reason why there are fewer female truck drivers, miners, and construction workers? Many of the loud-mouthed feminist I know personally studied courses that are low paid, such as liberal arts, philosophy, international relations etc, but somehow, it is the fault of patriarchy that they are paid less compared to men who indulge in STEM mostly, and a high paying career.

Most importantly, this invinscible ''glass ceiling'' that they yap about is the very thing that makes men attractive to them. Women find succesful men attractive, and by nature, will not go for men lesser than them in the economical rung. And as statistic has shown, that since the inception of feminism, women happiness are steadily on the decline. They keep shooting themselves in the foot with third-wave feminism, but all it brings is chaos and more suffering to them. In the west, marriage is becoming a thing of the past, and men that actually want marriage do travel to third world countries that have not been affected by radical feminism to find a wife. Both genders are reaching a point of incompatibility.

Apples and Oranges.

You are comparing mental strength with physical strength, we all know the average man is stronger than the average woman. Unless you are saying men are more intelligent than women then your analogy doesn’t work.

Feminist have NEVER compared salaries of men across careers. In your example, feminists would compare the salary of a STEM woman to a STEM man of comparable education, experience and skill. Now why would it make sense to compare the salary of a liberal arts major to a STEM major? Do the men in liberal arts job earn the same as men in STEM jobs?

Please can you post these statistics that show women are increasingly unhappy since feminism started?

pansophist:


Haha, I can name more. Women enjoy something I describe as status-by-association. For example, special recognitions are given to the wife of men of high status, e.g Presidents (first lady), Kings (queen), etc. Men generally will not be recognized if their wife is of high status.

Furthermore, feminist are not fighting for equal-of-opportunity, but equality-of-outcome, something that is an impractical impossibility. Their reasoning goes like this. If there are more male CEO than female, then it is oppression and patriarchy, while completely ignoring the fact that perhaps, the reason why there are fewer female CEO is also the reason why there are fewer female truck drivers, miners, and construction workers? Many of the loud-mouthed feminist I know personally studied courses that are low paid, such as liberal arts, philosophy, international relations etc, but somehow, it is the fault of patriarchy that they are paid less compared to men who indulge in STEM mostly, and a high paying career.

Most importantly, this invinscible ''glass ceiling'' that they yap about is the very thing that makes men attractive to them. Women find succesful men attractive, and by nature, will not go for men lesser than them in the economical rung. And as statistic has shown, that since the inception of feminism, women happiness are steadily on the decline. They keep shooting themselves in the foot with third-wave feminism, but all it brings is chaos and more suffering to them. In the west, marriage is becoming a thing of the past, and men that actually want marriage do travel to third world countries that have not been affected by radical feminism to find a wife. Both genders are reaching a point of incompatibility.

Ever heard of WAGs?
Wives and girlfriends.

I'm waiting for HABs

budaatum:

No, I can't. A feminist is simply someone, male or female, who is trying to achieve change that helps women get equal opportunities and treatment.

Do note that some men are pigs whom a feminist will aim to be superior to. There's afterall no point aspiring to piggishness.

You live in the West no?

Please can you tell me how women are being denied equal opportunities/treatment in the part of the world where you live?

Ranchhoddas:
You live in the West no?

Please can you tell me how women are being denied equal opportunities/treatment in the part of the world where you live?

I live in the Orolu Kingdom of Ifon Osun too where women are deprived of opportunity by parents choosing to send only their sons to school and men getting them pregnant so they can't.

budaatum:

I live in the Orolu Kingdom of Ifon Osun too where women are deprived of opportunity by parents choosing to send only their sons to school and men getting them pregnant so they can't.

In other words, you can't answer. Feminism is a joke.
There's nothing. Equal access to opportunity is already there. The only difference is that men, by virtue of their being stronger, smarter and more driven are better able to seize these opportunities.

Bury your head in the sand all you want. It's the truth. Men build civilizations. Women make sure everyone is well fed.

Michellekabod2:
I am proudly a feminist,yes! The only threat some daft dudes(especially Nairaland guys) use against us is that we will not get married....
First,that is a wrong notion. Second,assuming that is true and girls decide not to marry for the sake of feminism, they will still sham us like it's compulsory to be married. Guys have a way of determining what is good for themselves and taking charge of their lives and at the same time they don't want ladies to determine what is good for themselves and to take charge of their lives; they want to control their lives and ladies lives.They set up a tribunal to decide what is acceptable for a lady.
You see guys getting offended when ladies specifically state they will not settle for a guy who isn't rich. But they themselves will proudly say they will not marry non virgins.
Humans are entitled to what they want.
A guy can give his list of requirements from a lady before marriage: beautiful,tall,fair, virgin,industrious, excellent cook, respectful et al. But when a girl gives her list: handsome,rich,tall et Al ,you hear people saying "ah! You will remain single then!".

Ok, enough blaming of a guy..ladies aren't clean as well...
Ladies feel they can eat their cake and have it,they cherrypick alot....
When feminism suits them they cling to it,and when it's against their favor they cry foul. That is why you find many wannabe feminist crying "we are ladies na" when it comes to financial contributions!.


Let me show you what feminism is:

1) The word "fat" should not be used on only ladies, the "watch it on, you are adding weight o" should not be used on only ladies.
2) Except your date offers to foot the bills, you should split the bills on outings,movies and dinners. He pays for his,you pay for yours!
3) if a lady slaps a man in public, he has all right to slap back without anyone saying "you aren't supposed to hit a woman no matter what".... Isn't it equality you want?
4) it's not her duty to clean your house or cook for you when she visits, except she doesn't it voluntarily.
5) it's not your duty to send her money except voluntarily.
6) the "sleeping around" tags should not be used for females only. Any guy who fuucks ladies is a h0e as well...
7) if your lady ever hits you, you are in an abusive relationship, flee! You are been abused!
if a lady ever gropes your manhood or nipples without your consent,you are sexually abused! Take the case up for molestation! You shouldn't be grateful for been exploited sexually....act the way she will act if the reverse were the case.
9)what she wants to drink ain't your business, except off course you are paying for it. If she wants to drink alcohol,you have no right to sham or tag her...
10) what she does with her body ain't your business! If she has sex, don't tag her cheap because you also don't have respect for your body for giving it out to a lady.
11) hygiene is for both genders, i get irritated when I hear people say "she is a lady, why isn't she neat?"
12) when a public vehicle breaks down,both abled males and females should push the vehicle!
13) They say no one can stand a disrespectful lady, but i say no one can stand a disrespectful Human
14) All levys or dues or financial contributions should be equal! Men shouldn't pay more...
15) The tag "broke" shouldn't be used only on guys....they should be "broke girls" as well... Any individual who is financially down is broke!
Cc:iamplato, CAPSLOCKED, Martinez39,fuministicqueen,amatarasha,sweetbuns, poccohantas, MJBOLT,amakavula,ilamina,raptex,ubunja,sinaj,cosmicphoenix

OK....

liberalchick:


Apples and Oranges.

You are comparing mental strength with physical strength, we all know the average man is stronger than the average woman. Unless you are saying men are more intelligent than women then your analogy doesn’t work.

Feminist have NEVER compared salaries of men across careers. In your example, feminists would compare the salary of a STEM woman to a STEM man of comparable education, experience and skill. Now why would it make sense to compare the salary of a liberal arts major to a STEM major? Do the men in liberal arts job earn the same as men in STEM jobs?

Please can you post these statistics that show women are increasingly unhappy since feminism started?

At least you admitted than men are physically stronger than women, awesome. Unlike the feminist I know that believe in the bullshit that sex is a social construct and that women aren't physically weaker compare to men.

Even at that (in reference to your iterations of gender wage gap in same field), the reasons for such (that's if it exists in the first place) is not because of gender, or some patriarchial meeting to pay women less, but it is because of factors that influence salaries, such as working longer hours, willingness to commute farther and relocate, choose high paying careers, do labor-intensive and dangerous jobs, aggressive negotiation for better pay and raise, and unlikelihood to take free leave etc, which statistically, men excel at. It is completely illegal and outlawed to pay people less on factors above their control such as race, sex, gender, orientations, and if anyone can prove such discrimination exist, companies will be punished heavily for it and vilified in social media. And if women can be paid less, most companies will employ women instead, since its a cheaper form of labor. The Washington Post has an interesting revelation about this.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/whats-the-real-gender-pay-gap/2016/04/24/314a90ee-08a1-11e6-bdcb-0133da18418d_story.html?noredirect=on

Furthermore, it is proven that the more equal a society becomes, the more it reveals the life choice patterns of both genders. For example in the Scandinavia, the most progressive region in the planet, with feminist government and revered as the most egalitarian region on earth, you will see that women gravitate towards a different path such as hospitality and working with people, as opposed to men who gravitate into STEM and high paying careers. Fun fact, Algeria has more female scientist than the US, because as it seems, the women need to choose a high paying career to escape poverty, compare to westerners who do not have such pressure. You may read more here.

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/02/the-more-gender-equality-the-fewer-women-in-stem/553592/

My point is simple. The gender wage gap can not, and should not be reduced to discrimination by gender. There are lots of variables. If anything, there is a life-choice gap. So now explain to me, why are women paid higher than men in areas such as glamour (e.g fashion modeling), explicit (e.g prostitution, porn), and hospitality (e.g nurses, teacher)?

Female happiness is surely on the decline, as simple googling of it will reveal thousand of academic articles regarding that, I cant summarize it here for you. So you asked for a link, well, here it is. But endeavor to read deeply on it, especially academical publications.

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/may/18/womens-rights-happiness-wellbeing-gender-gap

Ranchhoddas:


Ever heard of WAGs?
Wives and girlfriends.

I'm waiting for HABs

I just googled it now. So yea, further solidifies what I was saying about women enjoying status-by-association, something men will never taste. Also, men are held accountable and responsible for things women are given a free pass at. In the west (most especially the anglophone), the word ''rape'' has been gendered. It doesn't occur to people that women do even rape men, it's always men doing the raping. If a man picks up a girl in the club, get drunk and they had sex, she can cry rape the next morning and she is automatically believed without evidence, even if both of them were drunk and consensually did it. I haven't seen feminist fighting for this seeming injustice. Also, men are jailed for their inability to pay child support, but not women and women automatically rewarded custodial right over kids, assumed to be a better parent but not men.

If women are truly oppressed as they scream, MGTOW should have been a female movement, women should be boycotting marriages, but it is the men that are refusing to be in a committed relationship and dropping their partner when she wants marriage or something. ANd statistics have shown that women want marriages than ever to compare to men. And somehow, feminist cry marriage is bondage to them. I can say more, but I will pause here.

https://relationshipsinamerica.com/marriage-and-divorce/whos-more-interested-in-marrying-men-or-women

pansophist:


At least you admitted than men are physically stronger than women, awesome. Unlike the feminist I know that believe in the bullshit that sex is a social construct and that women aren't physically weaker compare to men.

Even at that (in reference to your iterations of gender wage gap in same field), the reasons for such (that's if it exists in the first place) is not because of gender, or some patriarchial meeting to pay women less, but it is because of factors that influence salaries, such as working longer hours, willingness to commute farther and relocate, choose high paying careers, do labor-intensive and dangerous jobs, aggressive negotiation for better pay and raise, and unlikelihood to take free leave etc, which statistically, men excel at. It is completely illegal and outlawed to pay people less on factors above their control such as race, sex, gender, orientations, and if anyone can prove such discrimination exist, companies will be punished heavily for it and vilified in social media. And if women can be paid less, most companies will employ women instead, since its a cheaper form of labor. The Washington Post has an interesting revelation about this.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/whats-the-real-gender-pay-gap/2016/04/24/314a90ee-08a1-11e6-bdcb-0133da18418d_story.html?noredirect=on

Furthermore, it is proven that the more equal a society becomes, the more it reveals the life choice patterns of both genders. For example in the Scandinavia, the most progressive region in the planet, with feminist government and revered as the most egalitarian region on earth, you will see that women gravitate towards a different path such as hospitality and working with people, as opposed to men who gravitate into STEM and high paying careers. Fun fact, Algeria has more female scientist than the US, because as it seems, the women need to choose a high paying career to escape poverty, compare to westerners who do not have such pressure. You may read more here.

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/02/the-more-gender-equality-the-fewer-women-in-stem/553592/

My point is simple. The gender wage gap can not, and should not be reduced to discrimination by gender. There are lots of variables. If anything, there is a life-choice gap. So now explain to me, why are women paid higher than men in areas such as glamour (e.g fashion modeling), explicit (e.g prostitution, porn), and hospitality (e.g nurses, teacher)?

Female happiness is surely on the decline, as simple googling of it will reveal thousand of academic articles regarding that, I cant summarize it here for you. So you asked for a link, well, here it is. But endeavor to read deeply on it, especially academical publications.

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/may/18/womens-rights-happiness-wellbeing-gender-gap

My account was frozen for this response lol I don’t know why. Maybe it was a link I posted, I’ve decided to remove it and repost. It’s a link about the teacher gender pay gap. Original post below:

It’s not a Washington post article it’s an opinion article by a conservative writer posted on WP but I will respond to it.

“factors that influence salaries, such as working longer hours, willingness to commute farther and relocate, choose high paying careers...men excel at.”

Men excel at it due to nature and stereotype and not because of any effort on their part. Men don’t give birth and nurture babies, men aren’t expected to keep the home. On paper, it seems like equal opportunities “it’s not illegal for women to work” However, of what use is this opportunity if western women can’t access it?

I am happy you said factors above our control, Women can’t control that they are women, yet the corporate world with their policies are punishing western women for being one.

“It is completely illegal and outlawed to pay people less on factors above their control such as race, sex, gender, orientations, and if anyone can prove such discrimination exist, companies will be punished heavily....”

It’s one thing to pass laws to make gender discrimination illegal, it’s another thing for it to be enforced. The previous generation of western feminists have fought for those laws to be passed now this generation are fighting for it to be enforced. Wether laws are passed or not, it will not stop a sexist man from denying a woman employment or companies to have discriminatory policies. ( for you to relate insert race) For example to hide the pay gap, some companies had policies for employees to hide their salary, any disclosure was grounds for a dismissal. Women found out they were paid lesser than their colleagues. Women had to go back to get laws written to make it illegal for your boss to fire you if you disclose your salary. How else can you negotiate a salary when you don’t even know how much your colleagues are being paid? Some companies still do it, there are numerous law suits pending. Why should women have to keep suing companies just to get equal opportunity? Is that one gender equality? Law suits are money, time and emotional draining and you run the risk of being black balled in the industry.

Women are paid less but women are more expensive for the company’s bottom line that’s why companies higher fewer women. That’s also discriminatory, a women is denied a job because of her gender. Companies have been creative in finding loop holes in discriminatory laws. Again, women are being punished for being women, even single women that have no desire to marry or bear children are discriminated against.

“Furthermore, it is proven that the more equal a society..”

The link you posted explains the trend. The most feminist countries are welfare states and they have better economy. So even though the women can DO STEM jobs they rather do something else because they don’t need a good job to guarantee financial freedom and this is true even for men. Men in America can afford to follow their passion but a Nigerian man cannot. Nigerian parents will not even allow their male children play football even though that’s a viable path to financial freedom but because the risk is too great they discourage their children from following their passion.

“My point is simple. The gender wage gap can not, and should not be reduced to discrimination by gender. There are lots of variables. If anything, there is a life-choice gap. So now explain to me, why are women paid higher than men in areas such as glamour (e.g fashion modeling), explicit (e.g prostitution, porn), and hospitality (e.g nurses, teacher)? “

Umm NO.
Men control the fashion industry, porn, and prostitution industries lol and female teachers are paid less than male teachers.

Let’s just assume all what you wrote is true, so women should be happy and content that we excel in fashion, porn and prostitution?


“Female happiness is surely on the decline, as simple googling of it will reveal thousand of academic articles regarding that, I cant summarize it here for you. So you asked for a link, well, here it is. But endeavor to read deeply on it, especially academical publications.”


Based on the link you posted female happiness is on the decline for US citizen women that work and keep a home. Even though women have fought for laws that allow them work, most times they are still required to do house chores and discriminatory office policies increases the baggage. So while women had an extra baggage, men’s lifestyle continued as is. That’s a nuanced struggle that western feminists are still fighting. That’s a small subset of ALL women. Western women are unhappy that they have to work twice as hard as men for lesser pay.

I am curious why do the anti-feminists on a Nigerian forum always have to use Western women as example to prove there is already gender equality to Nigerian feminists? Is it because western women have more rights than Nigerian women? Why is it so? Were these rights given to them freely? These rights were not given to them, they fought for it. If you believe western women have had enough opportunities and no need for them to agitate for more that’s fine even though I don’t agree. Do you also believe Nigerian women have enough/same opportunities as Nigerian men?

An average Nigerian woman does not live in the west and a Nigerian feminist is more concerned about her opportunities as a woman in Nigeria. I think a much more honest discussion about feminism amongst Nigerians should focus more on gender equality in Nigeria.

LibChick:


My account was frozen for this response lol I don’t know why. Maybe it was a link I posted, I’ve decided to remove it and repost. It’s a link about the teacher gender pay gap. Original post below:

It’s not a Washington post article it’s an opinion article by a conservative writer posted on WP but I will respond to it.

“factors that influence salaries, such as working longer hours, willingness to commute farther and relocate, choose high paying careers...men excel at.”

Men excel at it due to nature and stereotype and not because of any effort on their part. Men don’t give birth and nurture babies, men aren’t expected to keep the home. On paper, it seems like equal opportunities “it’s not illegal for women to work” However, of what use is this opportunity if western women can’t access it?

I am happy you said factors above our control, Women can’t control that they are women, yet the corporate world with their policies are punishing western women for being one.

“It is completely illegal and outlawed to pay people less on factors above their control such as race, sex, gender, orientations, and if anyone can prove such discrimination exist, companies will be punished heavily....”

It’s one thing to pass laws to make gender discrimination illegal, it’s another thing for it to be enforced. The previous generation of western feminists have fought for those laws to be passed now this generation are fighting for it to be enforced. Wether laws are passed or not, it will not stop a sexist man from denying a woman employment or companies to have discriminatory policies. ( for you to relate insert race) For example to hide the pay gap, some companies had policies for employees to hide their salary, any disclosure was grounds for a dismissal. Women found out they were paid lesser than their colleagues. Women had to go back to get laws written to make it illegal for your boss to fire you if you disclose your salary. How else can you negotiate a salary when you don’t even know how much your colleagues are being paid? Some companies still do it, there are numerous law suits pending. Why should women have to keep suing companies just to get equal opportunity? Is that one gender equality? Law suits are money, time and emotional draining and you run the risk of being black balled in the industry.

Women are paid less but women are more expensive for the company’s bottom line that’s why companies higher fewer women. That’s also discriminatory, a women is denied a job because of her gender. Companies have been creative in finding loop holes in discriminatory laws. Again, women are being punished for being women, even single women that have no desire to marry or bear children are discriminated against.

“Furthermore, it is proven that the more equal a society..”

The link you posted explains the trend. The most feminist countries are welfare states and they have better economy. So even though the women can DO STEM jobs they rather do something else because they don’t need a good job to guarantee financial freedom and this is true even for men. Men in America can afford to follow their passion but a Nigerian man cannot. Nigerian parents will not even allow their male children play football even though that’s a viable path to financial freedom but because the risk is too great they discourage their children from following their passion.

“My point is simple. The gender wage gap can not, and should not be reduced to discrimination by gender. There are lots of variables. If anything, there is a life-choice gap. So now explain to me, why are women paid higher than men in areas such as glamour (e.g fashion modeling), explicit (e.g prostitution, porn), and hospitality (e.g nurses, teacher)? “

Umm NO.
Men control the fashion industry, porn, and prostitution industries lol and female teachers are paid less than male teachers.

Let’s just assume all what you wrote is true, so women should be happy and content that we excel in fashion, porn and prostitution?


“Female happiness is surely on the decline, as simple googling of it will reveal thousand of academic articles regarding that, I cant summarize it here for you. So you asked for a link, well, here it is. But endeavor to read deeply on it, especially academical publications.”


Based on the link you posted female happiness is on the decline for US citizen women that work and keep a home. Even though women have fought for laws that allow them work, most times they are still required to do house chores and discriminatory office policies increases the baggage. So while women had an extra baggage, men’s lifestyle continued as is. That’s a nuanced struggle that western feminists are still fighting. That’s a small subset of ALL women. Western women are unhappy that they have to work twice as hard as men for lesser pay.

I am curious why do the anti-feminists on a Nigerian forum always have to use Western women as example to prove there is already gender equality to Nigerian feminists? Is it because western women have more rights than Nigerian women? Why is it so? Were these rights given to them freely? These rights were not given to them, they fought for it. If you believe western women have had enough opportunities and no need for them to agitate for more that’s fine even though I don’t agree. Do you also believe Nigerian women have enough/same opportunities as Nigerian men?

An average Nigerian woman does not live in the west and a Nigerian feminist is more concerned about her opportunities as a woman in Nigeria. I think a much more honest discussion about feminism amongst Nigerians should focus more on gender equality in Nigeria.

Why was your account banned? That's wrong,you posted nothing wrong....don't worry it will be opened after some days..

Meaning I can't quote your post with your previous moniker until it's unbanned .
.
For this work pay, I suggest that pay should be based on working hours, how cumbersome the work is, the skill possessed by the employee et Al and not gender.

Yet still some private organizations will choose to cling to some stereotype and pay women less.

Ranchhoddas:
In other words, you can't answer. Feminism is a joke.
There's nothing. Equal access to opportunity is already there. The only difference is that men, by virtue of their being stronger, smarter and more driven are better able to seize these opportunities.

Bury your head in the sand all you want. It's the truth. Men build civilizations. Women make sure everyone is well fed.

I'm glad you think its me who's burying a head in the sand. I personally know what difference I make to change this archaic view of women that you have in your own head.

I bet no woman made sure you are well fed today.

I don’t know o it was strange lol

Don’t mind all these companies their excuse was, it’s expensive to hire women but companies that make ‘concessions’ for their female staffs have not shown any difference in their bottom line.

My company has a day care on the premises and the maternity leave is fair not comparable to that of Canada but then the maternity leave in the US is a joke. These things that my company added, it helps a little in bridging that gap and it also helps the company lol because they get full utilization of their female staffs.

Michellekabod2:

Why was your account banned? That's wrong,you posted nothing wrong....don't worry it will be opened after some days..

Meaning I can't quote your post with your previous moniker until it's unbanned .
.
For this work pay, I suggest that pay should be based on working hours, how cumbersome the work is, the skill possessed by the employee et Al and not gender.

Yet still some private organizations will choose to cling to some stereotype and pay women less.

budaatum:

I'm glad you think its me who's burying a head in the sand. I personally know what difference I make to change this archaic view of women that you have in your own head.

I bet no woman made sure you are well fed today.

Still prevaricating

I hold the view (probably wrong) that feminists fall into two categories:

1) Dumb people

2) People who think its trendy and so they have to hop on the train to look sophisticated, modern, woke or whatever.

I know you from religion section and you are most likely more enlightened than I am. I don't think you fit into any of the categories.

Shock me please. I want to be disabused of my "archaic" views. Answer my question.
I am not a fanatic. I will submit to a superior point of view.
Your prevarications only serve to strengthen my view as everyone I throw the question to prevaricates.

Where's the prevarication? You yourself showed how women are oppressed with your "men, by virtue of their being stronger, smarter and more driven are better able to seize these opportunities",and that women should stay in the kitchen.

You will have daughters. We shall see how successful you are at chaining them to a stove.

Ranchhoddas:
Still prevaricating

I hold the view (probably wrong) that feminists fall into two categories:

1) Dumb people

2) People who think its trendy and so they have to hop on the train to look sophisticated, modern, woke or whatever.

I know you from religion section and you are most likely more enlightened than I am. I don't think you fit into any of the categories.

Shock me please. I want to be disabused of my "archaic" views. Answer my question.
I am not a fanatic. I will submit to a superior point of view.
Your prevarications only serve to strengthen my view as everyone I throw the question to prevaricates.

budaatum:
Where's the prevarication? You yourself showed how women are oppressed with your "men, by virtue of their being stronger, smarter and more driven are better able to seize these opportunities"

Nature has endowed men, more than women with qualities -- physical, mental, and psychological -- that make them better suited to engaging in activities that lead to construction of civilizations. I am only pointing it out. If you have a problem with that, take it up with mother nature. At least you don't disagree. You are just not pleased that I am saying it. Or do you disagree

and that women should stay in the kitchen.

Conversely women have better than men abilities that make them suited to tending to the home. This includes, but is not limited to "making sure everyone is well fed".

You will have daughters. We shall see how successful you are at chaining them to a stove.

Weirdly, one of my life goals is to have daughters. I won't really mind if I don't have sons. But daughters

The bold part reminds me of those legal shows I like to watch. How a lawyer will just reduce a person's argument to a sentence that twists everything.
Really disingenuous.

Let it be known that you did not attempt to answer my question. Still prevaricating.

Ranchhoddas:


Nature has endowed men, more than women with qualities -- physical, mental, and psychological -- that make them better suited to engaging in activities that lead to construction of civilizations. Or do you disagree

Let it be known that you did not attempt to answer my question. Still prevaricating.

First, I am under no obligation to answer to you since you are in no way capable, apart from the Neanderthal thinking in your head, of holding women back. By the time you have a woman, we will have made you evolve, mark my word And neither is it a matter of agreeing. All the same, and for the benefit of others.

Nature has endowed human beings with qualities -- "physical, mental, and psychological", period. It endowed men to be pigs, for instance, and for woman to spread her legs and produce your offspring, which I could still do if I just farmed you for studding. We do it with sheep, we do it with dogs, we even do it with ordinary chickens so we'll just farm you for sperm. But as I said, it's not about agreeing and neither do I need your consent. You will one day be here telling us how your daughters are way more "physical, mental, and psychological" superior to men. Tell me who "prevaricated", then.

budaatum:

First, I am under no obligation to answer to you since you are in no way capable, apart from the Neanderthal thinking in your head, of holding women back. By the time you have a woman, we will have made you evolve, mark my word And neither is it a matter of agreeing. All the same, and for the benefit of others.

Nature has endowed human beings with qualities -- "physical, mental, and psychological", period. It endowed men to be pigs, for instance, and for woman to spread her legs and produce your offspring, which I could still do if I just farmed you for studding. We do it with sheep, we do it with dogs, we even do it with ordinary chickens so we'll just farm you for sperm. But as I said, it's not about agreeing and neither do I need your consent. You will one day be here telling us how your daughters are way more "physical, mental, and psychological" superior to men. Tell me who "prevaricated", then.

.

I can't speak about the whole world, but having traveled to many countries I can confidently say that for the greater part men and women now have similar rights and opportunities. Of course there are always differences, but these are mainly natural and enrich us as a specie.

Feminism was a glorious and well deserved movement. It is now turning into something else that looks like the fight for women's superiority over everything else.

I live in a country where any wise man should think 10 times before getting married. The laws are so much in favor of women that your life long efforts can be brought to naught 2 seconds after marriage.

I was once an ardent feminist but the story of my own brother opened my eyes for good.

Feminists should ask themselves the question, what is it they are fighting for, and if the fight is still relevant, where and how. In victory, We should learn to stop, else the victory can turn to a defeat.

My opinion.

LoJ:
I can't speak about the whole world, but having traveled to many countries I can confidently say that for the greater part men and women now have similar rights and opportunities. Of course there are always differences, but these are mainly natural and enrich us as a specie.

Feminism was a glorious and well deserved movement. It is now turning into something else that looks like the fight for women's superiority over everything else.

I live in a country where any wise man should think 10 times before getting married. The laws are so much in favor of women that your life long efforts can be brought to naught 2 seconds after marriage.

I was once an ardent feminist but the story of my own brother opened my eyes for good.

Feminists should ask themselves the question, what is it they are fighting for, and if the fight is still relevant, where and how. In victory, We should learn to stop, else the victory can turn to a defeat.

My opinion.

I can't speak about the whole world, but having traveled to many countries I can confidently say that for the greater part black and white people now have similar rights and opportunities. Of course there are always differences, but these are mainly natural and enrich us as a specie.

Civil rights was a glorious and well deserved movement. It is now turning into something else that looks like the fight for black men superiority over white men.

I live in a country where any wise man should think 10 times before dealing with a black man. The laws are so much in favor of black men that your life long efforts can be brought to naught 2 seconds after dealing with them.

I was once an ardent civil rights activist but the story of my own brother opened my eyes for good.

Black men should ask themselves the question, what is it they are fighting for, and if the fight is still relevant, where and how. In victory, We should learn to stop, else the victory can turn to a defeat.

Racism is dead, black and white men now have similar rights.

My opinion.

LoJ:
I can't speak about the whole world, but having traveled to many countries I can confidently say that for the greater part men and women now have similar rights and opportunities. Of course there are always differences, but these are mainly natural and enrich us as a specie.

Feminism was a glorious and well deserved movement. It is now turning into something else that looks like the fight for women's superiority over everything else.

I live in a country where any wise man should think 10 times before getting married. The laws are so much in favor of women that your life long efforts can be brought to naught 2 seconds after marriage.

I was once an ardent feminist but the story of my own brother opened my eyes for good.

Feminists should ask themselves the question, what is it they are fighting for, and if the fight is still relevant, where and how. In victory, We should learn to stop, else the victory can turn to a defeat.

My opinion.

You eyes don open?

One feminist on this thread was claiming their fighting for gender equality.

If their fighting for gender equality, there won't be anything like Men Going Their Own Way, which is direct opposite to feminism.

Are my mamas feminists sisterfire adaibeku rekhina analqueenluci ...

Ranchhoddas:

.

You did say you know buda from the religious section.