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Qur'an & Science: 15 Contradictions - Islam for Muslims - Nairaland

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Qur'an & Science: 15 Contradictions by Ultramane: 6:00pm On Jun 26, 2019
Content:
Re: Qur'an & Science: 15 Contradictions by Ultramane: 6:01pm On Jun 26, 2019
Salaam.

There are verses of the Qur'an that have puzzled people, often leading them to doubt its divinity, infallibility and preservation.

This thread is intended to show some of these verses, so that the sincere and enlightened Muslim will be better informed and at least adopt a more realistic and pragmatic approach with Qur'an and Islam.
Re: Qur'an & Science: 15 Contradictions by Ultramane: 6:01pm On Jun 26, 2019
1. Babies develop from blood clot during gestation


96:2 :
Created the man from clots.

23:12-14 :
Verily We created man from a product of wet earth; Then placed him as a drop in a safe lodging; Then fashioned We the drop a clot, then fashioned We the clot a little lump, then fashioned We the little lump bones, then clothed the bones with flesh.

At least, from a traditional Islamic point, this is no mistranslation or misinterpretation. Here are the tafsir;

23:14 - https://quranx.com/tafsirs/23.14
96.2 - https://quranx.com/tafsirs/96.2

All of them agree that "alaqa" is blood clot. Even if we argue for alternate meaning of the word, it remain a question as to why Qur'an use the word that also mean blood clot to describe a stage of embryo or fetus, leading to erroneous interpretation.

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Re: Qur'an & Science: 15 Contradictions by Ultramane: 6:02pm On Jun 26, 2019
Science:

Babies are not developed from blood clot. Medieval sciences from Aristotle and Galen wrongly taught that blood is one state of fetal development, but modern science disproves this.

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Re: Qur'an & Science: 15 Contradictions by Ultramane: 6:03pm On Jun 26, 2019
2. Sex fluid or gametes comes from between the backbone and the ribs.


86:5-7 :
So let see man from what he is created. He is created from a fluid emitted. It comes out from between the backbone and the ribs.

Here again are the tafsirs; https://quranx.com/tafsirs/86.7

There are slight variation among the scholars, but all agree that Qur'an implies the fluid or gamete to come from the within the thoracic or abdominal cavities.

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Re: Qur'an & Science: 15 Contradictions by Ultramane: 6:03pm On Jun 26, 2019
Science:

Gametes or sex fluids come from far below the ribs, anterior to the backbone. They come from the pelvic cavity.
Re: Qur'an & Science: 15 Contradictions by Ultramane: 6:05pm On Jun 26, 2019
3. There is barrier between salt and fresh water bodies or two seas' water bodies that merge, beyond which neither water bodies transgress or cross


55:19-20
He has let free the two bodies of flowing water, meeting together: Between them is a Barrier which they do not transgress

Tafsir;

55:19 - https://quranx.com/Tafsirs/55.19
55:20 - https://quranx.com/Tafsirs/55.20
Re: Qur'an & Science: 15 Contradictions by Ultramane: 6:06pm On Jun 26, 2019
Science:

When two water bodies merge, there is of course a barrier - density gradient between them. If you observe the waters, you will see a distinct boundary dividing them and think they do not transgress it to mix.

But it can be said that they transgress this boundary because they exchange water molecules across the boundary, mixing at a slow and microscopic level. Given sufficient time, these water bodies will fully mix, fully transgress the barrier.

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Re: Qur'an & Science: 15 Contradictions by Rashduct4luv(m): 10:00am On Jun 27, 2019
Ultramane:
1. Babies develop from blood clot during gestation



At least, from a traditional Islamic point, this is no mistranslation or misinterpretation. Here are the tafsir;

23:14 - https://quranx.com/tafsirs/23.14
96.2 - https://quranx.com/tafsirs/96.2

All of them agree that "alaqa" is blood clot. Even if we argue for alternate meaning of the word, it remain a question as to why Qur'an use the word that also mean blood clot to describe a stage of embryo or fetus, leading to erroneous interpretation.


This is misleading as even wikipedia states that 'alaqa means "The Clot" or "The Clinging Thing.

The linguistic definition of ʻalaq علق (singular ʻalaqah علقة) is "leech", "medicinal leech", "coagulated blood", "blood clot", or "the early stage of the embryo".ʻAlaq is also a derivative of ʻalaqa which means "attached and hanging to something."Professor Abdul Haleem mentions that "ʻalaq” can also mean anything that clings: a clot of blood, a leech, even a lump of mud. All these meanings involve the basic idea of clinging or sticking."

As i said to Usermane before, you atheistic blokes here are on nothing but falsehood. Keep looking for loopholes till you die. Sometimes you lie to establish the truthfulness of your falsehood.

Translation error not scientific error!

DR. GHALI
Created man from clots.

MUHSIN KHAN
Has created man from a clot (a piece of thick coagulated blood).

PICKTHALL
Createth man from a clot.

SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
Created man from a clinging substance.

YUSUF ALI
Created man, out of a (mere) clot of congealed blood:

MUFTI TAQI USMANI
He created man from a clot of blood.

ABDUL HALEEM
He created manfrom a clinging form.

ABUL ALA MAUDUDI(WITH TAFSIR)
(96:2) created man from a clot of congealed blood.4

DR. MUSTAFA KHATTAB, THE CLEAR QURAN
created humans from a clinging clot.

DR. MUSTAFA KHATTAB
created humans from a clinging clot.1

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Re: Qur'an & Science: 15 Contradictions by Ultramane: 5:55pm On Jun 27, 2019
Rashduct4luv:



This is misleading as even wikipedia states that 'alaqa means "The Clot" or "The Clinging Thing.

The linguistic definition of ʻalaq علق (singular ʻalaqah علقة) is "leech", "medicinal leech", "coagulated blood", "blood clot", or "the early stage of the embryo".ʻAlaq is also a derivative of ʻalaqa which means "attached and hanging to something."Professor Abdul Haleem mentions that "ʻalaq” can also mean anything that clings: a clot of blood, a leech, even a lump of mud. All these meanings involve the basic idea of clinging or sticking."

As i said to Usermane before, you atheistic blokes here are on nothing but falsehood. Keep looking for loopholes till you die. Sometimes you lie to establish the truthfulness of your falsehood.

Translation error not scientific error!

DR. GHALI
Created man from clots.

MUHSIN KHAN
Has created man from a clot (a piece of thick coagulated blood).

PICKTHALL
Createth man from a clot.

SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
Created man from a clinging substance.

YUSUF ALI
Created man, out of a (mere) clot of congealed blood:

MUFTI TAQI USMANI
He created man from a clot of blood.

ABDUL HALEEM
He created manfrom a clinging form.

ABUL ALA MAUDUDI(WITH TAFSIR)
(96:2) created man from a clot of congealed blood.4

DR. MUSTAFA KHATTAB, THE CLEAR QURAN
created humans from a clinging clot.

DR. MUSTAFA KHATTAB
created humans from a clinging clot.1

I am not lying. Please read the classical tafsir I've left link to. All agree "alaqa" in this verse refers to coagulated blood. This is not simple translation problem.

As I said before, if the Qur'an did not mean blood clot, why use a term that is also used to imply 'blood clot'? And why did the earlier scholars think it is blood clot?

What you're doing at this point is reinterpretation bias. All through the middle ages, no one bothered that 'alaqa', was taught by scholars as clot, but now that embryonic studies is possible and proved no clot state for fetus, people start looking for alternative meaning to validate Qur'an.

As for your ad hominem, I think you should learn to respect differences in opinion. If you're offended with this thread, please go read a thread that praise Qur'an.

Peace.

4 Likes

Re: Qur'an & Science: 15 Contradictions by Rashduct4luv(m): 8:10am On Jun 28, 2019
Ultramane:


I am not lying. Please read the classical tafsir I've left link to. All agree "alaqa" in this verse refers to coagulated blood. This is not simple translation problem.

As I said before, if the Qur'an did not mean blood clot, why use a term that is also used to imply 'blood clot'? And why did the earlier scholars think it is blood clot?

What you're doing at this point is reinterpretation bias. All through the middle ages, no one bothered that 'alaqa', was taught by scholars as clot, but now that embryonic studies is possible and proved no clot state for fetus, people start looking for alternative meaning to validate Qur'an.

As for your ad hominem, I think you should learn to respect differences in opinion. If you're offended with this thread, please go read a thread that praise Qur'an.

Peace.

Ultramane as well as usermane (and other atheists) are here to malign and denigrate Islam and you will not succeed. The real question is what is the closest meaning of the word "Alaq?
Re: Qur'an & Science: 15 Contradictions by Ultramane: 3:47pm On Jun 28, 2019
4. Firm structures or mountains serve as pegs, prevent earth from shaking with us.


21:31 - And We have placed in the earth firm mountains lest it shake/quake with them.
78:07 - And the mountains as pegs

Tafsir;
21:31 - https://quranx.com/Tafsirs/21.31
16:15 - https://quranx.com/Tafsirs/16.15
31:10 - https://quranx.com/Tafsirs/31.10
78:07 - https://quranx.com/Tafsirs/78.7
Re: Qur'an & Science: 15 Contradictions by Ultramane: 3:47pm On Jun 28, 2019
Science:

The earth does shake by earthquakes. At least one major earthquake happens daily on some place on earth. Thus, the mountains or any other structures cast on earth are not preventing earthquakes, which are even common in mountainous regions.

Can we assume that "shaking" in these verses refer to the earth wobbling in space? No. Because the earth is spherical, and you can't have pegs to keep the entire sphere from shaking. Of course, you can have pegs to keep the surfaces of the sphere from shaking.

But as we can see from earthquakes, the mountains don't keep the earth surface from shaking.
Re: Qur'an & Science: 15 Contradictions by Ultramane: 3:49pm On Jun 28, 2019
5. The suns runs to a resting place for it.


36:37-40 -
A token unto them is night. We strip it of the day, and lo! they are in darkness. And the sun runneth on unto a resting-place for him. And for the moon We have appointed mansions/phases till she return like an old shrivelled palm-leaf. It is not for the sun to overtake the moon, nor doth the night outstrip the day. They float each in an orbit.

Tafsir:
36:38: https://quranx.com/Tafsirs/36.38
Re: Qur'an & Science: 15 Contradictions by Ultramane: 3:50pm On Jun 28, 2019
What is the resting place of the sun:

Scholars are divided on this verse. Is the "resting place of the sun" where the sun reaches at sunset or stops at end time? There is a strong likelihood that the former is the case. First, look at the context of the verses immediately before and after 36:38.

36:37 - Tells us how day transitions to night. 36:39 - Tells us about the moon and its phases. 36:40 - Tells us day and night again. All these verses deal with daily phenomenon. It is thus likely Qur'an refers to the 'sun running to it resting place' as a daily phenomenon.

Now, if the Qur'an implies the resting place is rather where the sun comes to rest at end time, it is more appropriate that this verse would've been placed among verses that address end time and its astronomical events, that are not intertwined with daily events like day and night or moon phases.
Re: Qur'an & Science: 15 Contradictions by Ultramane: 3:51pm On Jun 28, 2019
Next, there are hadith that explicitly proves this verse - the sun running to its resting place - as daily event. Here;


Sahih al-Bukhari » Prophetic Commentary on the Qur'an:
Once I was with the Prophet (ﷺ) in the mosque at the time of sunset. The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "O Abu Dharr! Do you know where the sun sets?" I replied, "Allah and His Apostle know best." He said, "It goes and prostrates underneath (Allah's) Throne; and that is Allah's Statement:-- 'And the sun runs on its fixed course for a term (decreed). And that is the decree of All-Mighty, the All-Knowing....' (36.38)

Sahih al-Bukhari » Book of Beginning of Creation:
The Prophet (ﷺ) asked me at sunset, "Do you know where the sun goes (at the time of sunset)?" I replied, "Allah and His Apostle know better." He said, "It goes (i.e. travels) till it prostrates Itself underneath the Throne and takes the permission to rise again, and it is permitted and then (a time will come when) it will be about to prostrate itself but its prostration will not be accepted, and it will ask permission to go on its course but it will not be permitted, but it will be ordered to return whence it has come and so it will rise in the west. And that is the interpretation of the Statement of Allah: "And the sun Runs its fixed course For a term (decreed). that is The Decree of (Allah) The Exalted in Might, The All- Knowing." (36.38)
Re: Qur'an & Science: 15 Contradictions by Ultramane: 3:51pm On Jun 28, 2019
Science:

The sun does not run to any resting place every day, at night. It is there in the sky even when we don't see it at night. This explains why we have time-zones. People in ancient times erroneously thought that at sunset, the sun took a break from illuminating the earth.
Re: Qur'an & Science: 15 Contradictions by Ultramane: 3:54pm On Jun 28, 2019
6. Night and Day run in orbits


36:40 -
It is not for the sun to overtake the moon, nor doth the night outstrip the day. They float each in an orbit/arcs.

21:33 -
And He it is Who created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon. They float, each in an orbit/arcs.

Tafsir;
https://quranx.com/Tafsirs/36.40
https://quranx.com/Tafsirs/21.33
Re: Qur'an & Science: 15 Contradictions by Ultramane: 3:54pm On Jun 28, 2019
Science:
Night & Day are not tangible objects, they don't run in orbits or trajectories in space as does the sun and moon.
Re: Qur'an & Science: 15 Contradictions by Ultramane: 3:55pm On Jun 28, 2019
7. Heaven or Interstellar/Interplanetary space have Night and Day:


79:27 - 29:
Are ye the harder to create, or is the heaven that He built? He raised the height thereof and ordered it. And He made dark the night thereof, and He brought forth the morn thereof.

Tafsirs: https://quranx.com/Tafsirs/79.29
Re: Qur'an & Science: 15 Contradictions by Ultramane: 3:55pm On Jun 28, 2019
Science:

Night and day are phenomena on only rocky, opaque masses in space as the planets. The heavens is space, with some gas, dust and radiation.

Further away from the earth lithosphere and atmosphere, the heaven or sky remain constant in appearance. The concept of time, night or day is not applicable.

The brightness or dullness of outer space or heaven may fluctuate with shadows of traveling planets or light from travelling stars but to say the heaven have night that is darkened and morning that is brought out is improper.

In the old days, people erroneously taught that the sky is a solid dome and it became dark at night and illuminated by day.
Re: Qur'an & Science: 15 Contradictions by Ultramane: 3:57pm On Jun 28, 2019
8. A man traveled till when he reached the setting (place) of the sun. He found the sun setting in a spring of muddy water, and found near it a people.


18:85-86:
And he followed a road. Till, when he reached the setting-place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring, and found a people near it.

Tafsir; https://quranx.com/Tafsirs/18.86
Re: Qur'an & Science: 15 Contradictions by Ultramane: 3:59pm On Jun 28, 2019
Al Qurtubi's View:

It is not meant by reaching the rising or setting of the sun that he reached its body and touched it because it runs in the sky around the earth without touching it and it is too great to enter any spring on earth. It is so much larger than earth. But it is meant that he reached the end of populated land east and west, so he found it - according to his vision - setting in a spring of a murky water like we watch it in smooth land as if it enters inside the land.

That is why He said, "he found it rising on a people for whom we had provided no covering protection against the sun." (Holy Qur'ân 18:90) and did not mean that it touches or adheres to them; but they are the first to rise on. Probably this spring is a part of the sea and the sun sets behind, with or at it, so the proposition takes the place of an adjective and God knows best
Re: Qur'an & Science: 15 Contradictions by Ultramane: 4:00pm On Jun 28, 2019
As we see, people were reading this verse and discerning DQ say the sun literally set in the spring. That's why Al Qurtubi is correcting them.

When an object sets in to something, it descends into or onto it. Previously, men thought the sun descends from the sky into or onto some place, thus they called it sunset.

Although modern science proved this wrong, the term "sun set" have stuck with us and we continue to use it for the moment we stop seeing the sun everyday.

Al Qurtubi is telling the people not to take the phrase, "He found it setting in a muddy spring" literally. The implication of this is that the Qur'an is unclear and people can't understand what it is stating by merely reading its verses.
Re: Qur'an & Science: 15 Contradictions by Ultramane: 4:01pm On Jun 28, 2019
Interestingly, here is Maulana Ali & Shakir's translation:

Until, when he reached the setting-place of the sun, he found it going down into a black sea, and found by it a people. We said: O Dhu-l-qarnain, either punish them or do them a benefit.
Re: Qur'an & Science: 15 Contradictions by Ultramane: 4:01pm On Jun 28, 2019
Science:

A person can travel "till setting of the sun", but not travel till when they reach the setting (place) of the sun. A person cannot be said to find people near the sun.

This is because the sun is extremely far from the earth and larger than the earth.
Re: Qur'an & Science: 15 Contradictions by Ultramane: 4:07pm On Jun 28, 2019
9. The same man as before traveled till when he reached rising (place) of the sun


18:90 -
Till, when he reached the rising-place of the sun, he found it rising on a people for whom We had appointed no shelter therefrom.

Tafsir: https://quranx.com/Tafsirs/18.90




The Flaw in the Apologist Argument

Apologist say this means he traveled till the time of sunrise. This could've been more convincing if the verse reads; "he traveled till rising of the sun", not "he traveled till when he reached rising of the sun"

Also, note that there is no reason to include "setting/rising (place) of the sun" in Dhul Qanayn's story because they add basically nothing. Qur'an could've omitted them, unless of course Qur'an is implying Dhul Qarnayn reached the place the sun literally descends down from the sky or ascends up the sky.
Re: Qur'an & Science: 15 Contradictions by Ultramane: 4:07pm On Jun 28, 2019
Here is what the scholars state;


until, when he reached the rising of the sun, the place where it rises, he found it rising on a folk, namely, Negroes (zanj), for whom We had not provided against it, that is, [against] the sun, any [form of] cover, in the way of clothing or roofing, as their land could not support any structures; they had underground tunnels into which they would disappear at the rising of the sun and out of which they would emerge when it was at its highest point [in the sky].

Now, the sun is hottest at noon. Going by the tafsir, Qur'an mean that the people Dhul Qarnayn met were living so close to the sun's rising that they felt its heat even more in the morning as it rose above them than at noon.

It is not possible on any part of the earth to feel this much scorching heat in the morning at sun rise than at noon, unless the Qur'an is implying the people were living in proximity to the literal place where the sun rises or ascends into the sky from.
Re: Qur'an & Science: 15 Contradictions by Ultramane: 4:08pm On Jun 28, 2019
Science:

None can travel till when they reach rising (place) of the sun.
Re: Qur'an & Science: 15 Contradictions by Ultramane: 10:49am On Jun 29, 2019
Rashduct:

Ultramane as well as usermane (and other atheists) are here to malign and denigrate Islam and you will not succeed. The real question is what is the closest meaning of the word "Alaq?

I have decided to let Rashduct be, since he don't seem in mood for Socratic dialogue, but rather prefers adhominem and cheap jibes like - "Oh usermane is an atheist" or "Oh look, usermane is not a Muslim any more".




@underlined. When we read the Qur'an we don't rely entirely on root word. The root word is only a start, after looking at root words, then we'll have to look at context of the verse.

Keep in mind that traditional Muslims claim the classical scholars are the preferred choice to learn the Qur'an from. They've refused to consider modern re-interpretation of Qur'an especially on legal matters, thus it wouldn't be sincere to let them re-interpret verses only when it suits them on scientific information.




Alaqa also mean "clinging substance", but what exactly is a clinging substance? It is a very vague description. We often say that the Qur'an is clear and pin point precise in its choice of word. As such, specific meaning of words should be preferred over generic meaning.

Alaqa mean 'leech' too and Muslim apologists have taken the pain to explain the embryo at earliest stage is "like a leech." Qur'an didn't say man is created from "something like alaqa", it state man is created from "alaqa".

Muslim apologist sites show pictorial comparison between 25 days embryo and a typical leech. Their pictures are mostly doctored. For all the similarities between leech and the embryo they'll show, it remain a fact that a leech is basically a blood sucking worm. An embryo is never.

Now, I'll explain with linguistic and contextual proof from the Qur'an, showing that alaqa is unlikely clinging substance or leech.

1. Alaqa as clinging substance does not fit the sequence of embryonic development according to 23:13-14

23:13-14:


Then placed him as a drop (of seed) in a safe lodging; Then fashioned We the drop a alaqa, then fashioned We the clot a little lump, then fashioned We the little lump bones, then clothed the bones with flesh.

The phrase "placed him as a drop in a safe lodging" is already indicating clinging. No need to mention "we fashioned the drop a clinging substance" again, as it is basically repeating the earlier statement.

Hence, more likely than not, alaqa cannot mean a clinging substance.

2. Alaqa as a leech does not fit with "alaq", the plural of the noun.

I have mentioned 96:2 for a reason. And that is because it is the only verse on embryology that uses alaqa in its plural form. "He created the man from "alaq". The man, al-insan is singular and thus the object man is created from should be singular, not plural.

Those who say alaqa mean leech have to translate this verses as "He created the man from leeches". There is only one object in the womb during gestation. So 'leeches" won't work here.

But blood clot would work here because the singular and plural form of clot are interchangeable. A blood clot can be an aggregated mass of blood clots.
Re: Qur'an & Science: 15 Contradictions by Ultramane: 4:42pm On Jun 29, 2019
10. Sky is a solid mass

First, sky in Qur'an is where the rain come from, upper troposphere of the atmosphere.


22:65
Seest thou not how Allah sendeth down water from the sky and then the earth becometh green upon the morrow? Lo! Allah is Subtile, Aware.

No issue with this verse. But let's see what else the Qur'an tell us of the sky.
Re: Qur'an & Science: 15 Contradictions by Ultramane: 4:43pm On Jun 29, 2019
What is the state of the sky according to Qur'an? Solid, Liquid, Gas?


22:65
Hast thou not seen how Allah hath made all that is in the earth subservient unto you? And He holdeth back the heaven from falling on the earth unless by His leave.

25:25
A day when the heaven with the clouds will be rent asunder and the angels will be sent down, a grand descent.

50.06
Have they not then observed the sky above them, how We have constructed it and beautified it, and how there are no rifts/cracks therein?

13:02
Allah it is Who raised up the heavens without visible supports.

All of these imply the sky, the upper troposphere and apparently all the atmosphere and outer space is solid held without pillars from falling upon the earth, protected from cracks like we see on our roofs, and at end time will be split asunder with the clouds so that the angels can descend.

Tafsir;
https://quranx.com/Tafsirs/22.65
https://quranx.com/Tafsirs/25.25
https://quranx.com/Tafsirs/50.6
https://quranx.com/Tafsirs/13.2

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