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Qur'an & Science: 15 Contradictions - Islam for Muslims (2) - Nairaland

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Re: Qur'an & Science: 15 Contradictions by Ultramane: 4:45pm On Jun 29, 2019
Science:

The atmosphere, the sky, the blue or grey view we perceive when we look up is a layer of void, with mostly gases, dust and radiation. Likewise outer space. It is not something solid that make crack, split or fall upon the earth.

In the old days, men thought the sky we see above us to be a solid dome above the earth, with window or slits that open to let down the rain. This is has been disproved.

If you still believe that the sky is a dome as Abrahamic religions teach, and that there is a conspiracy to mislead people from God. Just remember that commercial air planes fly as high as the stratosphere, above where the rains falls from.
Re: Qur'an & Science: 15 Contradictions by Ultramane: 4:46pm On Jun 29, 2019
11. Wife hitting


04:34
Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and hit them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.
Re: Qur'an & Science: 15 Contradictions by Ultramane: 4:46pm On Jun 29, 2019
Science

Women are not children that can so easily be disciplined by a bit of hitting or spanking by their husbands. Even parents have to cease hitting their kids at a certain age. An adult should never hit another adult except in self defense, as this can trigger retaliation, leading to full blown fight with dire consequences for either of the adults.
Re: Qur'an & Science: 15 Contradictions by Ultramane: 4:48pm On Jun 29, 2019
The crappiest defense for wife hitting by Muslims. Ever.

To explain how 4:34 can be implemented without this leading to domestic violence, the best analogy and the most relevant I have found is that of law enforcement. Throughout the world, the police have the right to strike a person who is about to break the law, for example a person who wants to set fire to a building. The police are required to sternly warn the person to stop their behavior, and if they do not, they have the right to intervene physically and subdue the person to prevent them from doing harm. The right of the police to strike any citizen they want given the appropriate circumstances establishes a certain type of order within society.

In the West, law enforcement is the job of the police; they are given the right to use violence when necessary to carry out this job. Islam creates a second law enforcement jurisdiction that is non-existent in the West, that of the family, with the power of policing given to a husband (rather than a police force) within this internal family jurisdiction

A new approach to the Quran’s “Wife-Beating Verse” (al-Nisa 4:34) by THE HAWRAMANI INSTITUTE

You can't compare police to husbands. There is a reason why not just any man becomes a police. These are trained officers wielding firearms. Mere presence of the police gives you the chills.

Look, if you fear your wife is misbehaving and she does not amend her ways after admonition and separating from bed with her, the best you can do is contact her blood family or offer a divorce. Just find a less violent approach.

But if you want to risk a fight with her, and risk your life or her life. Then go ahead and hit her as the Qur'an demands. There are few women that will tolerate all kinds of physical abuse from their significant other, hopefully your wife is one of them.




Pragmatic Interpretation of 4:34

Any way, some reformist Muslims have proffered "separate them" or "cite(report) them" as an alternative interpretation for the phrase "wadhribuhunna" which is traditionally interpreted as "strike them". I'd say it is quite a stretch and suffers from re-interpretation bias, but it is more pragmatic interpretation;

http://www.quran434.com/wife-beating-islam.html - This argue in favor of the "cite/report them" interpretation.
Re: Qur'an & Science: 15 Contradictions by Ultramane: 4:50pm On Jun 29, 2019
12. Fast from dawn to night every month of Ramadan


2:187
The month of Ramadan in which was revealed the Qur'an, a guidance for mankind, and clear proofs of the guidance, and the Criterion (of right and wrong). And whosoever of you is present, let him fast the month. And eat and drink until the white thread becometh distinct to you from the black thread of the dawn. Then strictly observe the fast till nightfall.
Re: Qur'an & Science: 15 Contradictions by Ultramane: 4:51pm On Jun 29, 2019
Science:

At some point in some years, there is no dawn, sunset or night in the poles of the earth. This is known as period of midnight sun. Ramadan sometimes falls in the period of midnight sun, like this year in a place like Norway. So, in 2019, Muslims in Norway could not commence their fast at local dawn and break at night.

It begs the question, if the author of Qur'an is the creator of the heaven and earth, why dictate rules for fasting Ramadan, rules that are not possible to fast by in certain years at certain parts of the earth during Ramadan?

Also note that during the period of midnight sun, certain salats like Fajr, Maghrib, Isha'i will not be possible as they depend on dawn, sunset and night to tell when they due for observance.
Re: Qur'an & Science: 15 Contradictions by Empiree: 7:27am On Jun 30, 2019
Ultramane:
Science:



But it can be said that they transgress this boundary because they exchange water molecules across the boundary, mixing at a slow and microscopic level. Given sufficient time, these water bodies will fully mix, fully transgress the barrier.
How long these two oceans exist?. I am sure they have been there for donkey centuries. So when are they going to mix?. In another 3.2 billion years?

Yeye

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Re: Qur'an & Science: 15 Contradictions by Empiree: 7:38am On Jun 30, 2019
Ultramane:
Science:

At some point in some years, there is no dawn, sunset or night in the poles of the earth. This is known as period of midnight sun. Ramadan sometimes falls in the period of midnight sun, like this year in a place like Norway. So, in 2019, Muslims in Norway could not commence their fast at local dawn and break at night.

It begs the question, if the author of Qur'an is the creator of the heaven and earth, why dictate rules for fasting Ramadan, rules that are not possible to fast by in certain years at certain parts of the earth during Ramadan?


Also note that during the period of midnight sun, certain salats like Fajr, Maghrib, Isha'i will not be possible as they depend on dawn, sunset and night to tell when they due for observance.
Go to Norway and challenge them. I am sure you will be laughed at. This past Ramadan we learned something. They have absolutely no problems fasting except munafiq like you. The man clearly explained how they fast in that region. General rules of Ramadan applies to them unless where exceptions arise. It is a recent phenomenon

Their climate geographic condition is a Signs from Allah. You can take it or leave it

Re: Qur'an & Science: 15 Contradictions by Ultramane: 6:13pm On Jun 30, 2019
13. Facing the sacred mosque from anywhere on earth

2:145
And now verily We shall make thee turn (in prayer) toward a qiblah which is dear to thee. So turn thy face toward the sacred mosque, and ye (O Muslims), wheresoever ye may be, turn your faces (when ye pray) toward it.
Re: Qur'an & Science: 15 Contradictions by Ultramane: 6:14pm On Jun 30, 2019
Science:

Unless we assume the earth is flat, only those living close to the sacred mosque can face it whilst standing on the ground. The farther away from the sacred mosque, the more inaccurate any attempt to face it while standing on earth becomes. This is due to curvature of the earth.

Muslims at the other side of the globe, the western hemisphere, opposite Makkah which is in the eastern hemisphere, like in South America just cannot face Makkah, the correct Qibla.

For those who continue to insist the earth is flat - obviously because as we've seen so far, the Qur'an seem to imply this - do remember that the earth surface curvature is taken into account for accuracy in calculating time and distance of plane flights across the world.

The question again is that, why would the author of Qur'an ask Muslims worldwide to face the sacred mosque, if He created the earth in a shape that makes it impossible to face the sacred mosque from all part of the earth?

NB: From what I hypothesize, it might be possible to face Makkah from South America, depending on your definition of "facing". The clearest impossibility in facing Makkah, is if you're at its antipode, in French Polynesia
Re: Qur'an & Science: 15 Contradictions by Ultramane: 6:17pm On Jun 30, 2019
14. Everything on earth created before the heaven, sky, was completed


2:29
He it is Who created for you all that is in the earth. Then turned He to the heaven, and fashioned it as seven heavens. And He is knower of all things.

All that is on earth here would refer to the natural features of the earth; soil, ocean, minerals, mountains etc.
Re: Qur'an & Science: 15 Contradictions by Ultramane: 6:17pm On Jun 30, 2019
Science:

Certain features on the earth couldn't have formed before the heavens were completed. For instance, we know of landforms that were formed after the revelation of Qur'an. The Paricutin mountain of Mexico formed as recent as 1943 from a volcanic eruption in a corn field.
Re: Qur'an & Science: 15 Contradictions by Ultramane: 6:25pm On Jun 30, 2019
15. The Walls of Dhul Qarnayn


18:94 - 96
They said: O Dhu'l-Qarneyn! Lo! Gog and Magog are spoiling the land. So may we pay thee tribute on condition that thou set a barrier between us and them? He said: That wherein my Lord hath established me is better (than your tribute). Do but help me with strength (of men), I will set between you and them a bank. Give me pieces of iron - till, when he had levelled up (the gap) between the cliffs, he said: Blow! - till, when he had made it a fire, he said: Bring me molten copper to pour thereon.
Re: Qur'an & Science: 15 Contradictions by Ultramane: 6:25pm On Jun 30, 2019
Science:

Till this very day no one knows where these walls are. We're in the age of GPS and satellite, we can survey the entire earth now but we cannot tell for certain the walls DQ built.

All the walls speculated by Muslims as the walls of Dhul Qarnayn, cannot hold back the so called tribes of Gog and Magog any more since air crafts and missiles capable of flying over walls have been developed by men. Gog and Magog are men.

So, either Gog and Magog have trespassed the walls now or the entire Gog and Magog story run the risk of becoming a myth. If Gog and Magog tribes have trespassed the wall, who were they?

NB: Muslims once thought the Mongols who destroyed the caliphate in 1258 were the tribes of Gog and Magog.
Re: Qur'an & Science: 15 Contradictions by Kingsaeedibn: 9:12am On Jul 01, 2019
This thread is nothing but comedy..



A boy with 15 IQ questioning HIS creator..

Using human being findings (science) which is never reliable to argue facts that has been existing before time..

You case is worse pass psychiatric hospital

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Re: Qur'an & Science: 15 Contradictions by Empiree: 8:09pm On Jul 01, 2019
Kingsaeedibn:
This thread is nothing but comedy..



A boy with 15 IQ questioning HIS creator..

Using human being findings (science) which is never reliable to argue facts that has been existing before time..

You case is worse pass psychiatric hospital
he's not muslim. He has mind of his own

1 Like

Re: Qur'an & Science: 15 Contradictions by Empiree: 9:11pm On Jul 01, 2019
I already responded to one of the allegations you raised from previous page but got banned as soon as it was posted. I'm not going back to that anymore.
Ultramane:
Science:

Till this very day no one knows where these walls are. We're in the age of GPS and satellite, we can survey the entire earth now but we cannot tell for certain the walls DQ built.

All the walls speculated by Muslims as the walls of Dhul Qarnayn, cannot hold back the so called tribes of Gog and Magog any more since air crafts and missiles capable of flying over walls have been developed by men. Gog and Magog are men.

So, either Gog and Magog have trespassed the walls now or the entire Gog and Magog story run the risk of becoming a myth. If Gog and Magog tribes have trespassed the wall, who were they?

NB: Muslims once thought the Mongols who destroyed the caliphate in 1258 were the tribes of Gog and Magog.
As for this, there are difference of opinion. I support opinion and research that Wall of yajuj and Majuj was brought down (Allah knows best). There are evidences to suggest release of Gog and Magog.



* Return of the Jews to The Holy Land

* Sea of Galilee dries out

* Globalization



There are proofs from Hadith and current affairs. No wall is standing in the world today that prevents Gog and Magog from scaling over. During medieval era or pre-medieval times, a king sent expedition around the area suggested by Qur'an and historians to search for possible locations of the wall built by ZulQurnain. They finally got to area called Caspian sea and found a wall crumbled and ruined. There are more story to this. As far as I am concerned this was the strongest evidence of the release of Gog and Magog. I will not waste time on this. Let me go to other evidences to support this.


Quran tells us that Israelites were banned from returning to the Holy Land to reclaim it as their own UNTIL Gog and Magog are released from their barrier (Q21 vs 95-96). Almost all the tafsir agreed the town mentioned in this Ayah referred to Jerusalem. So the Jews are back to reclaim the Holy Land with help of yajuj and majuj.



Sea of Galilee

There is a Hadith that speaks about drying water in the sea of Galilee. It says yajuj and majuj drink the water everytime they passed through on their way to Jerusalem. Some people take it literally thinking that they literally drink the water. It could mean, for example, they want to turn desert to green which Benjamin Neta campaigned for during his first election along with former New York Mayor Bloomberg ..." making desert green". It would cost tones of gallons to do this project. So basically they waste water. That's what the Hadith is saying. Finally the Hadith said when the last of yajuj and majuj pass by (close to return of Jesus) they would pass through sea of Galilee and say 'there used to be water here' which means it is dried or almost dried out. Right now they (Gog and Magog) are passing and drinking. I need not elaborate. Now the Sea of Galilee is low.

Also Dajjal had something to say when he met with people stuck on an island. The Dajjal asked them to inform him about Lake Tiberias, specifically, whether or not there was still water in it, to which the men responded that it was overflowing with water in abundance. Then the Dajjal stated:


Soon it will dry up” (Sahih Muslim)


Google sea of Galilee and see it is drying at slow speed but raised eyebrows in 2008/09. That's why Israel wanted to attack neighboring countries to source water.


The second Hadith clarifies that the drying Lake Tiberias(Sea of Galilee) will not be complete until Gog and Magog invade the Holy Land and drink the last of its water, as the Prophet Muhammad (saw) said:


“Allah will send Gog and Magog, who will swarm down from every slope. The first of them will pass by the Lake of Tiberias and will drink what is in it, and the last of them will pass it and say: ‘There was once water here.’” (Sahih Muslim)


Some ulama insist the wall is still standing therefore, yajuj and majuj will not be released until the return of Jesus. This is just wrong interpretation because Quran used "release" . Hadith used "send" which means they are already released the last of them will be sent and head to Jerusalem at the time of arrival of Jesus.

Finally, eminent scholar, Allama muhammad Iqbal (d. 1938) said "yansiloona" in sura 21 Ayah 96 means all yajuj and majuj are released. This was his last public speech he gave before he was silenced until his demise.


So I am off the opinion that the barrier set up by ZulQurnain wass already in ruin and yansiloona.


* Globalization which means all types of vices, sicknesses, diseases, dress codes, same death etc all around the world are identical. Homosexuality which you support comes to mind. This is part of the world order of Gog and Magog.

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Re: Qur'an & Science: 15 Contradictions by Empiree: 9:15pm On Jul 01, 2019
Ultramane:
Science:

Till this very day no one knows where these walls are. We're in the age of GPS and satellite, we can survey the entire earth now but we cannot tell for certain the walls DQ built.

All the walls speculated by Muslims as the walls of Dhul Qarnayn, cannot hold back the so called tribes of Gog and Magog any more since air crafts and missiles capable of flying over walls have been developed by men. Gog and Magog are men.

So, either Gog and Magog have trespassed the walls now or the entire Gog and Magog story run the risk of becoming a myth. If Gog and Magog tribes have trespassed the wall, who were they?

NB: Muslims once thought the Mongols who destroyed the caliphate in 1258 were the tribes of Gog and Magog.
Here are 7 other theories.

https://lifeinsaudiarabia.net/blog/2015/04/27/where-yajujmajuj-gog-and-magog-are/


You however, if i remembered correctly said about 5 yrs ago that Gog and Magog are rivers, lakes or ocean. And you said Dajjal is a "system". Five yrs later in order to prove Quran wrong you shamelessly admitted Gog and Magog are humans just to satisfy your warped mind.. Well, i have given you my opinion above. I do not believe that Gog and Magog are obscure entity walled beneath the earth.

Rather, they are human beings and children of Adam(as).
Re: Qur'an & Science: 15 Contradictions by Kingsaeedibn: 9:44am On Jul 02, 2019
Empiree:
he's not muslim. He has mind of his own

He has a stupid and dumb mind

1 Like

Re: Qur'an & Science: 15 Contradictions by usermane(m): 10:00am On Jul 06, 2019
The Price for creating this post

If you’ve been reading the replies to my posts here or on other threads, you can note they are not any kind. Also, by creating this post, I’ve let down many who aligned with most of my views on Qur’an, Hadith & Islam. But what can I do?

When I found these contradictions, I planned to slip off Nairaland Islam section, permanently. I feel discouraged that the book I’ve spent so much to understand, practice and endorse may not be the divine literary, infallible perfection I’ve been led to believe. But since I was in the middle of my threads on Monotheism and Human Rights, and had planned future threads on sharia, hijab propaganda, Polygamy; I decide to delay my withdrawal till I’ve completed my threads.

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Re: Qur'an & Science: 15 Contradictions by usermane(m): 10:01am On Jul 06, 2019
Why I created this post

In short, Muslim Fanaticism. I’ve detested nothing in the Muslim community than Fanaticism, the product of ignorance mixed with religious zeal. This detest only intensified when I realized that while there are erroneous ideas imparted by Qur’an, there are Muslims who seek to enforce the same Qur’an as if it is the panacea for every disease - Muslims refusing gay marriage, supporting amputating thieves, or supporting husbands hitting their misbehaving wives, and threatening those who disbelieve in Qur’an with hell.

Look, people need to be informed, urgently. Most Muslims don’t read the Qur’an. The few that read it basically sing it in a language they don’t understand. And those that read translation or understand Arabic either never examined the verses pertaining to science or are not scientifically enlightened enough to see the errors behind these verses. These verses raise legitimate concern about the Qur’an, and it would not be just to remain silent about them.
Re: Qur'an & Science: 15 Contradictions by usermane(m): 7:05am On Jul 15, 2019
I have been Honest & Transparent

There have been false allegations against me, that I've been a phony all along, and that my recent critique of the Qur'an just proves this.

This is untrue. I've always believed the Qur'an to be perfect and divine since day one. I started on Islam section as a sunnite and I'm sure that people like tbaba or deolz are witness. I continued to study the Qur'an in order to practice it and to clear it of all the wrongs that I felt Muslims & non-Muslims attributed to it.

So, all my years criticizing "traditional Islam" or Muslims texts, I've never been skeptical of the Qur'an until late last year to early this year. The moment I became certain of the "weakness" in some of the verses, I began to echo my skepticism, though not as vivid as I did here. Therefore I have nothing to hide.
Re: Qur'an & Science: 15 Contradictions by usermane(m): 7:29am On Jul 15, 2019
Am I Still A Muslim?

One of the expectation from the Muslim community when a Muslim express concern on flaws in the Qur'an, is for the Muslim to publish their personal account; "My Journey from Islam to Atheism" or "Seeking Allah & Finding Jesus".

I have nothing to reveal other than I do not regard Qur'an as certainly the divine, preserved word of God. I think we should look at the Qur'an as professionals look at their profession. If we find an idea in the Qur'an that is flawed or at least capable of impacting erroneous knowledge, we should state it.

This idea that "I'm a Muslim so I must always defend the Qur'an", don't cut it anymore. We have seen from tafsir how the earlier Muslims were misled on science because they were just too sure that the Qur'an is divine and perfect and man is unworthy of questioning its ideas.

Peace.
Re: Qur'an & Science: 15 Contradictions by Empiree: 9:50am On Jul 15, 2019
^

You are not Muslim and you never was.. You are a trojan horse. It is as clear as day light again from your posts up there. It is only now I can say you are transparent by stating your position rather than previous years where you hide on the pretense of criticizing "traditional muslims".

You are not Muslim, period. You can try as much to curry flavor your position, it doesn't cut. You have made takfir of all muslims in the past.

Islam predated science and there will continue to be scientific discoveries because all future knowledge and developments already came with Adam (as). So Allah will make these discoveries known by stages with time. There are over one thousand tafsir books and they all have different ideas, explanations and interpretations. We believe in Allah and in what has been sent down to us - The Qur'an

3 Likes

Re: Qur'an & Science: 15 Contradictions by true2god: 10:34am On Jul 15, 2019
Empiree:
^

You are not Muslim and you never was.. You are a trojan horse. It is as clear as day light again from your posts up there. It is only now I can say you are transparent by stating your position rather than previous years where you hide on the pretense of criticizing "traditional muslims".

You are not Muslim, period. You can try as much to curry flavor your position, it doesn't cut. You have made takfir of all muslims in the past.

Islam predated science and there will continue to be scientific discoveries because all future knowledge and developments already came with Adam (as). So Allah will made these discoveries known by stages with time. There are over one thousand tafsir books and they all have different ideas, explanations and interpretations. We believe in Allah and in what has been sent down to us - The Qur'an
Layman excuse. I thought I have retired you from Nairaland 'islam for muslims' sections.
Re: Qur'an & Science: 15 Contradictions by Empiree: 1:36pm On Jul 15, 2019
true2god:
Layman excuse. I thought I have retired you from Nairaland 'islam for muslims' sections.
You like boosting now grin grin I was banned and lost interest replying you.
Re: Qur'an & Science: 15 Contradictions by true2god: 1:58pm On Jul 15, 2019
Empiree:
You like boosting now grin grin I was banned and lost interest replying you.
That means you must have insulted someone to be banned. Stop following the sunnah of the prophet.
Re: Qur'an & Science: 15 Contradictions by Empiree: 2:47pm On Jul 15, 2019
true2god:
That means you must have insulted someone to be banned. Stop following the sunnah of the prophet.
this is your problem now, abi?. I insulted no one. Spambot decided to smoke Igbo once in a while
Re: Qur'an & Science: 15 Contradictions by Rashduct4luv(m): 3:35pm On Jul 15, 2019
true2god:
That means you must have insulted someone to be banned. Stop following the sunnah of the prophet.

Wetin be this now? Wetin be your own?
Re: Qur'an & Science: 15 Contradictions by yemmie(m): 6:40am On Jul 16, 2019
Ideally, I don’t get involved with such discussions.

At op, please kindly answer the questions below

1: Where exactly is your soul in your body
2: Why do plant breath out oxygen and breath in CO2.
3: Kindly explain how the brain understands and comprehend things

Thank you

2 Likes

Re: Qur'an & Science: 15 Contradictions by usermane(m): 6:20am On Jul 17, 2019
yemmie:
Ideally, I don’t get involved with such discussions.

At op, please kindly answer the questions below

1: Where exactly is your soul in your body
2: Why do plant breath out oxygen and breath in CO2.
3: Kindly explain how the brain understands and comprehend things.

Thank you

1. I don't know. You want to tell me what a soul is? Have you seen, felt or heard one?

2. How is this relevant to the topic? How are your three questions relevant to the topic?

3. I don't know more than science currently reveal. It is a long story, that can't be explained in a few words.

You ask me question as if I come here promoting atheism. This thread is about contradictions between Qur'an & Science. Kindly stick to the topic.

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