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Senseless Cynical Censorship: Humanists Target Creationism In Welsh Schools by DoctorAlien(m): 6:56pm On Sep 19, 2019
by Gavin Cox

British secularists are yet again up in arms about teaching creationism in schools—this time in Welsh schools. But Welsh schools are not actually teaching creationism, and it’s not as though creationists have been pushing for it either. The fact of the matter is, since humanists erupted in 2011 over the inclusion of the creationist perspective in a religious education class,1 teaching creationism in science classes has already been effectively banned in British schools, even including religious education classes! So why have 46 leading science organisations and scientists, including British atheist big-guns Richard Dawkins, David Attenborough, Steve Jones and Alice Roberts, joined forces in a campaign to ban teaching creationism in Welsh schools?

In what can only be described as a highly cynical move, they have written to the Welsh Government expressing their deep concern that a new draft Welsh science curriculum could “increase the possibility of teaching creationism as science”.2 Increase the possibility? The campaign, unsurprisingly, is organised by the British Humanist Society (BHS), who also ran the ‘Teach evolution, not creationism!’ campaign in England in 2012. This led to the ban on creationism (mentioned above), which saw evolution added to the British National Curriculum for primary schools. The BHS’s latest alarmist clarion call demands that any possible loop holes be closed, and potential weaknesses in the Welsh curriculum be exposed—lest these somehow be exploited by those ‘pernicious creationists’, masquerading as science teachers!

Evolution: a self-refuting philosophy

So why get so hot-under the collar about it all? Why the panic? After all, if God doesn’t exist, as the BHS signatories proclaim, why the rush to censor all references to His existence or creative design within schools? Furthermore, evolution, as a philosophy, is self-refuting, in that nothing can be truly known if we really are merely the sum-total of random, meaningless processes. Therefore, no concept of ultimate truth, including the ideas that creationism is bad or evolution is true, can be defended within the atheist world-view. Critical thinking must actually be sacrificed by these humanist campaigners, in favour of empty dogmatism.

Indeed, science itself was rooted within the biblical worldview, and the founding fathers of the major branches of science, were practically all Bible-believing creationists. The fact that science should work at all is testament to the existence of an Ultimate law giver, one who created a logical universe that can be comprehended by His creatures. Atheist Richard Dawkins, one of the signatories of the BHS letter, once infamously stated the implication of evolution for ‘truth’:

“The universe that we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.”3

He is wrong of course, for the design in the universe is real, not apparent. Furthermore, can you think of a more damaging doctrine to teach the next generation than the one Dawkins espouses? In the minds of those who succumb to its tenets, such thinking divests them of any basis for ultimate truth, knowledge, morality, or human dignity and value.

Censored and silenced

The fundamental problem for the BHS and those who are leading this latest campaign, is that the new draft Welsh science and technology curriculum doesn't explicitly prohibit the teaching of creationism. But that surely is a given, since the carpet-ban against creationism came into force in British schools in 2012. However, apparently not content with the censorship that already exists, they are pushing for evolution to be more actively taught in Welsh primary schools, rather than waiting until the age of 14–15 years. So, in reality, it is not the creationists who are attempting to exploit the system to their advantage, rather it’s those who are pushing a godless, atheistic agenda. These people seek to expunge all religious faith, replacing it with a religion of materialism. Such militant atheism cannot tolerate even one instance of a dissenting voice. It recoils in horror at the idea of questioning Darwin in the minds of the young and impressionable. So much for critical thinking!

The campaign letter represents a concerted effort by the BHS to pressure the Welsh Government with ‘science’,2 thereby silencing Welsh schools into submission. The letter (which can be seen in full on the BHS web site4) begins by expressing the collected sense of alarm of its signatories at the perceived areas of vulnerability in the new curriculum. The second paragraph of the letter boldly asserts that “Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution”; they offer no citation for this dictum but it was originally stated by leading twentieth century evolutionary biologist Theodosius Dobzhansky.5 However, the facts do not bear this out when it comes to most biologists’ day jobs. It has been stated that evolution’s "day-to-day irrelevance is a great ‘paradox’ in biology", and furthermore, it can be shown that evolution has harmed science and society.

Who is denying whom?

The BHS letter continues that evolution must be taught to primary school children, so that “children in Wales are not exposed to pseudoscientific doctrines masquerading as science.”4 Welsh Humanists Coordinator (for BHS) Kathy Riddick comments further that it is “very worrying” that there is no explicit ban on creationism in Welsh schools. In her opinion, “This would deny Welsh students the right to a high quality, evidence-based education that enables them to understand how life came to be, to reason scientifically, and to be equipped to tackle misinformation in everyday life.”4 But it would deny no such thing and is an illogical claim! How can removing a competing paradigm in any argument better enable children to develop critical thinking? How can they better reason scientifically if they are not even allowed to critique the opposing side’s claims?

Denying the right to know that a competing paradigm even exists is censorship, plain and simple. One can only shake one’s head in disbelief at the obsessive paranoia displayed by the BHS and those who have signed their latest letter. Such efforts seek to completely excise from public life all vestiges of the Christian worldview, that which underpins our laws and institutions, culture and education, and the foundations of science.

Always a silver lining

However, there is hope. God can and does use the message of creation to reach pupils, parents and teachers with the message of salvation, even if creation is censored from the schools. That is why CMI’s primary ministry focus is to the Church, and it is through many Christian testimonies, and by being armed with good apologetic materials—such as CMI’s Creation magazine or Creation.com articles—that the battle for the hearts and minds of the next generation can be effectively waged.

Source: https://creation.com/censorship-creation-schools

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Re: Senseless Cynical Censorship: Humanists Target Creationism In Welsh Schools by DoctorAlien(m): 6:58pm On Sep 19, 2019
Johnydon22, ihedinobi3.
Re: Senseless Cynical Censorship: Humanists Target Creationism In Welsh Schools by Ihedinobi3: 2:39pm On Sep 20, 2019
DoctorAlien:
by Gavin Cox

British secularists are yet again up in arms about teaching creationism in schools—this time in Welsh schools. But Welsh schools are not actually teaching creationism, and it’s not as though creationists have been pushing for it either. The fact of the matter is, since humanists erupted in 2011 over the inclusion of the creationist perspective in a religious education class,1 teaching creationism in science classes has already been effectively banned in British schools, even including religious education classes! So why have 46 leading science organisations and scientists, including British atheist big-guns Richard Dawkins, David Attenborough, Steve Jones and Alice Roberts, joined forces in a campaign to ban teaching creationism in Welsh schools?

In what can only be described as a highly cynical move, they have written to the Welsh Government expressing their deep concern that a new draft Welsh science curriculum could “increase the possibility of teaching creationism as science”.2 Increase the possibility? The campaign, unsurprisingly, is organised by the British Humanist Society (BHS), who also ran the ‘Teach evolution, not creationism!’ campaign in England in 2012. This led to the ban on creationism (mentioned above), which saw evolution added to the British National Curriculum for primary schools. The BHS’s latest alarmist clarion call demands that any possible loop holes be closed, and potential weaknesses in the Welsh curriculum be exposed—lest these somehow be exploited by those ‘pernicious creationists’, masquerading as science teachers!

Evolution: a self-refuting philosophy

So why get so hot-under the collar about it all? Why the panic? After all, if God doesn’t exist, as the BHS signatories proclaim, why the rush to censor all references to His existence or creative design within schools? Furthermore, evolution, as a philosophy, is self-refuting, in that nothing can be truly known if we really are merely the sum-total of random, meaningless processes. Therefore, no concept of ultimate truth, including the ideas that creationism is bad or evolution is true, can be defended within the atheist world-view. Critical thinking must actually be sacrificed by these humanist campaigners, in favour of empty dogmatism.

Indeed, science itself was rooted within the biblical worldview, and the founding fathers of the major branches of science, were practically all Bible-believing creationists. The fact that science should work at all is testament to the existence of an Ultimate law giver, one who created a logical universe that can be comprehended by His creatures. Atheist Richard Dawkins, one of the signatories of the BHS letter, once infamously stated the implication of evolution for ‘truth’:

“The universe that we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.”3

He is wrong of course, for the design in the universe is real, not apparent. Furthermore, can you think of a more damaging doctrine to teach the next generation than the one Dawkins espouses? In the minds of those who succumb to its tenets, such thinking divests them of any basis for ultimate truth, knowledge, morality, or human dignity and value.

Censored and silenced

The fundamental problem for the BHS and those who are leading this latest campaign, is that the new draft Welsh science and technology curriculum doesn't explicitly prohibit the teaching of creationism. But that surely is a given, since the carpet-ban against creationism came into force in British schools in 2012. However, apparently not content with the censorship that already exists, they are pushing for evolution to be more actively taught in Welsh primary schools, rather than waiting until the age of 14–15 years. So, in reality, it is not the creationists who are attempting to exploit the system to their advantage, rather it’s those who are pushing a godless, atheistic agenda. These people seek to expunge all religious faith, replacing it with a religion of materialism. Such militant atheism cannot tolerate even one instance of a dissenting voice. It recoils in horror at the idea of questioning Darwin in the minds of the young and impressionable. So much for critical thinking!

The campaign letter represents a concerted effort by the BHS to pressure the Welsh Government with ‘science’,2 thereby silencing Welsh schools into submission. The letter (which can be seen in full on the BHS web site4) begins by expressing the collected sense of alarm of its signatories at the perceived areas of vulnerability in the new curriculum. The second paragraph of the letter boldly asserts that “Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution”; they offer no citation for this dictum but it was originally stated by leading twentieth century evolutionary biologist Theodosius Dobzhansky.5 However, the facts do not bear this out when it comes to most biologists’ day jobs. It has been stated that evolution’s "day-to-day irrelevance is a great ‘paradox’ in biology", and furthermore, it can be shown that evolution has harmed science and society.

Who is denying whom?

The BHS letter continues that evolution must be taught to primary school children, so that “children in Wales are not exposed to pseudoscientific doctrines masquerading as science.”4 Welsh Humanists Coordinator (for BHS) Kathy Riddick comments further that it is “very worrying” that there is no explicit ban on creationism in Welsh schools. In her opinion, “This would deny Welsh students the right to a high quality, evidence-based education that enables them to understand how life came to be, to reason scientifically, and to be equipped to tackle misinformation in everyday life.”4 But it would deny no such thing and is an illogical claim! How can removing a competing paradigm in any argument better enable children to develop critical thinking? How can they better reason scientifically if they are not even allowed to critique the opposing side’s claims?

Denying the right to know that a competing paradigm even exists is censorship, plain and simple. One can only shake one’s head in disbelief at the obsessive paranoia displayed by the BHS and those who have signed their latest letter. Such efforts seek to completely excise from public life all vestiges of the Christian worldview, that which underpins our laws and institutions, culture and education, and the foundations of science.

Always a silver lining

However, there is hope. God can and does use the message of creation to reach pupils, parents and teachers with the message of salvation, even if creation is censored from the schools. That is why CMI’s primary ministry focus is to the Church, and it is through many Christian testimonies, and by being armed with good apologetic materials—such as CMI’s Creation magazine or Creation.com articles—that the battle for the hearts and minds of the next generation can be effectively waged.

Source: https://creation.com/censorship-creation-schools
My brother, it's been a little while. Good to see you around. And thanks for calling my attention here.

There is very little to say really. Obviously, the atheist finds any reminder of God's Existence threatening in the extreme (Proverbs 28:1), so their move in this is not surprising at all. It is unfortunate that throughout Europe and other parts of the Globe, very real effort is being made to deny people the right to choose to hear and follow God's Side of the story. Recently, Switzerland ruled that parents have no right to homeschool their children. Some believers homeschool their children to avoid the sometimes atheistic education that the government pretty much forces on them, but now they are to be denied the right.

However, I don't share the same concern that organizations like CMI do. It matters little to me what laws governments make and what agitations atheists and other antichristians make in order to stamp out Faith in Jesus Christ. I am not obliged to obey laws that demand that I rebel against the Lord. But even so, I can see an easy enough workaround in this case. My kids can be taught evolution in school and still learn the Bible at home. There is no law yet against that. And when there is one, I will happily disobey it and suffer the consequences if I must.
Re: Senseless Cynical Censorship: Humanists Target Creationism In Welsh Schools by budaatum: 4:26pm On Sep 20, 2019
Creationism is not God. There's enough evidence to reduce it to mythology or early human understanding of how things might have come about. And those who think its literally true should perhaps start looking to the Spirit of the Word and not its letters!

Besides, you can always be responsible and teach your child Creationism in the privacy of your homes. It is your parental duty afterall!

Re: Senseless Cynical Censorship: Humanists Target Creationism In Welsh Schools by budaatum: 4:27pm On Sep 20, 2019
Ihedinobi3:

My kids can be taught evolution in school and still learn the Bible at home. There is no law yet against that. And when there is one, I will happily disobey it and suffer the consequences if I must.
Full respect to you Sir!
Re: Senseless Cynical Censorship: Humanists Target Creationism In Welsh Schools by LordReed(m): 6:16pm On Sep 20, 2019
DoctorAlien:
they have written to the Welsh Government expressing their deep concern that a new draft Welsh science curriculum could “increase the possibility of teaching creationism as science”.

This is all the justification that is necessary. Creationism is not science so why should it be taught as science?
Re: Senseless Cynical Censorship: Humanists Target Creationism In Welsh Schools by hakeem4(m): 6:32pm On Sep 20, 2019
He is wrong of course, for the design in the universe is real, not apparent. Furthermore, can you think of a more damaging doctrine to teach the next generation than the one Dawkins espouses? In the minds of those who succumb to its tenets, such thinking divests them of any basis for ultimate truth, knowledge, morality, or human dignity and value.

doctoralien, well i read what you wrote up there but this caught my attention how do you know the universe was designed? teaching creationism to student as science is simply child abuse and it is totally wrong. creationism can be taught in history classes but not science classes.

god is irrelevant!
Re: Senseless Cynical Censorship: Humanists Target Creationism In Welsh Schools by LordReed(m): 7:30pm On Sep 20, 2019
DoctorAlien:
teaching creationism in science classes has already been effectively banned in British schools, even including religious education classes!

I cannot find anything to support this (except of course conjecture on creation.com). You have any definitive article that says it has been banned in religious studies?
Re: Senseless Cynical Censorship: Humanists Target Creationism In Welsh Schools by budaatum: 7:58pm On Sep 20, 2019
LordReed:


I cannot find anything to support this (except of course conjecture on creation.com). You have any definitive article that says it has been banned in religious studies?
They don't teach "religious studies" in British schools. You can't go in there and tell multireligious UK students your god created the world!

Religious Education is taught from primary school as 59 Enquiry modules covering Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam, Judaism and Sikhism. It covers history, practices, beliefs, their texts, their prophets, gods etc. Your parent can request you not attend if they prefer you be ignorant but hardly many do. You may do individual modules at GCSE.

There is absolutely no class in any school under any curriculum that officially teaches creationism in UK. And if any does it would be sanctioned!
Re: Senseless Cynical Censorship: Humanists Target Creationism In Welsh Schools by LordReed(m): 8:20pm On Sep 20, 2019
budaatum:

They don't teach "religious studies" in British schools. You can't go in there and tell multireligious UK students your god created the world!

Religious Education is taught from primary school as 59 Enquiry modules covering Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam, Judaism and Sikhism. It covers history, practices, beliefs, their texts, their prophets, gods etc. Your parent can request you not attend if they prefer you be ignorant but hardly many do. You may do individual modules at GCSE.

There is absolutely no class in any school under any curriculum that officially teaches creationism in UK. And if any does it would be sanctioned!

So while teaching modules on christianity you can't mention the 6 day creation story?
Re: Senseless Cynical Censorship: Humanists Target Creationism In Welsh Schools by budaatum: 8:24pm On Sep 20, 2019
LordReed:


So while teaching modules on christianity you can't mention the 6 day creation story?
I'm assuming by "mention" you don't mean, preach it as a religion?

There is no 'preaching class' in UK schools. They will learn about as many day creations as there is interest in.
Re: Senseless Cynical Censorship: Humanists Target Creationism In Welsh Schools by LordReed(m): 8:34pm On Sep 20, 2019
budaatum:

I'm assuming by "mention" you don't mean, preach it as a religion?

There is no 'preaching class' in UK schools. They will learn about as many day creations as there is interest in.

Yes, I don't mean preach. More like state it exactly as the bible states it, no editorials.
Re: Senseless Cynical Censorship: Humanists Target Creationism In Welsh Schools by budaatum: 8:44pm On Sep 20, 2019
LordReed:


Yes, I don't mean preach. More like state it exactly as the bible states it, no editorials.
No UK school "states it exactly as the bible states it, no editorials"! The teachers are not robots! Think of them as anthropologists, history, sociologists, philosophers, physicists, etc, thinking people who have done their research teaching students how to do research too.
Re: Senseless Cynical Censorship: Humanists Target Creationism In Welsh Schools by LordReed(m): 8:57pm On Sep 20, 2019
budaatum:

No UK school "states it exactly as the bible states it, no editorials"! The teachers are not robots! Think of them as anthropologists, history, sociologists, philosophers, physicists, etc, thinking people who have done their research teaching students how to do research too.

I am trying to get a picture of what the religious studies would be like on this subject. The teacher would just tell them to go read the passages or something along those lines?

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Re: Senseless Cynical Censorship: Humanists Target Creationism In Welsh Schools by budaatum: 9:32pm On Sep 20, 2019
LordReed:


I am trying to get a picture of what the religious studies would be like on this subject. The teacher would just tell them to go read the passages or something along those lines?
Christianity has huge history in UK and Europe so it is taught extensively in history class where you'd touch on the Bible and its history, and someone is bound to ask about creationism when you first mention evolution and would also be touched on in sociology too, so its in the curriculum in that context and one should expect some to read the book. But it is in no way a required text book and no school will teach you to worship, pray or believe even though you may pray and sing hymns at assembly in church schools.

No religion though. You cannot, under any circumstance set up class and 'teach' God created heaven and earth in six days then rested!
Re: Senseless Cynical Censorship: Humanists Target Creationism In Welsh Schools by DoctorAlien(m): 12:11am On Sep 21, 2019
LordReed:


This is all the justification that is necessary. Creationism is not science so why should it be taught as science?

Just about in all the ways creationism is not science, evolution is not science too. One appeals to a supernatural Creator, the other appeals to naturalistic processes. However, both tell the story of how the things we observe came about. Before you answer me, make sure you're not holding the erroneous view that science is the search for natural answers. It has not been proven that everything must have a natural answer or cause.
Re: Senseless Cynical Censorship: Humanists Target Creationism In Welsh Schools by DoctorAlien(m): 12:16am On Sep 21, 2019
hakeem4:


doctoralien, well i read what you wrote up there but this caught my attention how do you know the universe was designed? teaching creationism to student as science is simply child abuse and it is totally wrong. creationism can be taught in history classes but not science classes.

god is irrelevant!

What is science?
Re: Senseless Cynical Censorship: Humanists Target Creationism In Welsh Schools by budaatum: 12:18am On Sep 21, 2019
DoctorAlien:


Just about in all the ways creationism is not science, evolution is not science too.
Except one has no evidence whatsoever to support what's written in a book in complete disregard for the use of your own senses to see what evolves before you.
Re: Senseless Cynical Censorship: Humanists Target Creationism In Welsh Schools by budaatum: 12:18am On Sep 21, 2019
DoctorAlien:


What is science?
The use of the senses.
Re: Senseless Cynical Censorship: Humanists Target Creationism In Welsh Schools by DoctorAlien(m): 12:25am On Sep 21, 2019
budaatum:

Except one has no evidence whatsoever to support what's written in a book in complete disregard for the use of your own senses to see what evolves before you.


Lol. I'm curious you used the word "see". Does it occur to you that all the PhD scientists from prestigious institutions around the world who hold the Bible account of creation as true, actually see the same things that evolutionists see today? How come these things "evolving before them" has not served as overwhelming evidence for them?

As for evidence, let me remind you that people in both camps have what they think are evidences for their views.
Re: Senseless Cynical Censorship: Humanists Target Creationism In Welsh Schools by DoctorAlien(m): 12:33am On Sep 21, 2019
budaatum:

The use of the senses.

Empiricism. Well, we all can use our senses in just about the same way. But we may still not arrive at the truth about certain things using just our senses. Empiricism is limited.
Re: Senseless Cynical Censorship: Humanists Target Creationism In Welsh Schools by LordReed(m): 12:41am On Sep 21, 2019
DoctorAlien:


Just about in all the ways creationism is not science, evolution is not science too. One appeals to a supernatural Creator, the other appeals to naturalistic processes. However, both tell the story of how the things we observe came about. Before you answer me, make sure you're not holding the erroneous view that science is the search for natural answers. It has not been proven that everything must have a natural answer or cause.
What is science?
Re: Senseless Cynical Censorship: Humanists Target Creationism In Welsh Schools by budaatum: 12:47am On Sep 21, 2019
LordReed:


I am trying to get a picture of what the religious studies would be like on this subject. The teacher would just tell them to go read the passages or something along those lines?
No teacher in a UK school will tell students to read Bible! You can hardly get them to read at all or Shakespeare even, not to talk of maths and science and history and philosophy and climate change, so you wouldn't want to, apart from the hard time you'd have snatching them away from Strictly Dancing and Love Island and Premier League and Netflix and shopping. The thought even makes me laugh.

I wonder if you've read Jonathan Swift's

Full and True Account OF THE BATTEL Fought last FRIDAY, Between the Antient and the Modern BOOKS IN St. JAMES's LIBRARY.

It's the battle in the UK school system that makes it evolve and not teach 400bc 'science' in the 21st century. Henry the VIII of all people takes credit for kicking out what was at the time called "superstition", and some hark back to Porphyry.

Schools in UK aim to equip you to handle the three score and ten. Anything outside that, God trully help you, not school.

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Re: Senseless Cynical Censorship: Humanists Target Creationism In Welsh Schools by budaatum: 12:52am On Sep 21, 2019
DoctorAlien:


Empiricism. Well, we all can use our senses in just about the same way. But we may still not arrive at the truth about certain things using just our senses. Empiricism is limited.
I agree, the use of the senses is limited. And this is exactly where all our religion comes in, to help improve our ability to use our senses, and not to abandon their use completely. Or what else have we that is not limited like our God given limited senses?
Re: Senseless Cynical Censorship: Humanists Target Creationism In Welsh Schools by budaatum: 1:04am On Sep 21, 2019
DoctorAlien:


Lol. I'm curious you used the word "see". Does it occur to you that all the PhD scientists from prestigious institutions around the world who hold the Bible account of creation as true, actually see the same things that evolutionists see today? How come these things "evolving before them" has not served as overwhelming evidence for them?

As for evidence, let me remind you that people in both camps have what they think are evidences for their views.
Science does not have much regard for what anyone thinks. You present what you claim you see. We look at it with our own eyes and tell you if we see it or not the same way you do.

You never did tell if you were a medical doctor! I do not know any PhD scientists from prestigious institutions around the world who hold the Bible account of creation as literally true. Even if they did, it would not exactly be in their science. And if they are scientists they would have seen sufficient evidence of evolution with very little for creationism.
Re: Senseless Cynical Censorship: Humanists Target Creationism In Welsh Schools by hakeem4(m): 5:26pm On Sep 21, 2019
DoctorAlien:


What is science?


i asked you a question first just answer me!

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