usermane:
5. Iblis
It thus remain unclear as to the type of creature Iblis is, a Jinn or a fallen angel.

it is only "unclear" to you. It is clear to us Muslims.


You failed to realize that Allah was teaching you the right methodology when He mentioned Iblis in the midst of Angels. He then clarified Iblis is a Jinn


And as We said to the Angels, "Prostrate (yourselves) to Adam." So they prostrated themselves, except Iblas. He was one of the jinn,. 18:50


And where the Jinns created from ?


“And the jinn We created before from scorching fire.” [15:27]


To distinguish jinn from Angels, Allah says in Q66:6 the Angels do not disobey God's Order. In addition to that, Angels are tasked with punishing disbelievers and evil people in Hell not Jinns. Disbelieving Jinns themselves will be victimized by Angels. In the graves, angels are tasked with questioning not Jinns. Angels are tasked with wahy. So duties of Angels are mentioned. The only similarity between Jinns and Angel is their spiritual realm(unseen). At some point Jinns may be seen in their different forms. Some are wavy etc.


So when Allah mentioned Iblis in the gathering of Angels and then clarified what he's made of (kahf 50), He's teaching us methodology. Whether you believe in the hadith which also clarified what Angels are made of or not, that's your problem. I believe it. It makes our research easier.


Finally, it is said Iblis was once beloved by Allah. He worshipped Allah for donkey centuries so Allah raised his status and raised him to the Angels. Angels are the closest to Allah.

Now, similar senario may be said for Jesus where we read in sura 4:158. Allah brought him nearest to Him. When Allah brought Jesus to Himself, does that make Jesus Angel?. Ofcourse not. Yet Allah says Angels are nearer to Him.


To Him belongs whoever is in the heavens and the earth. And those near Him are not prevented by arrogance from His worship, nor do they tire. They exalt [Him] night and day [and] do not slacken. 21:19-20



Never would the Messiah disdain to be a servant of Allah, nor would the angels near [to Him]. Q 4:172

Yet Quran tells us what Jesus was made of (Imran 59).


So question is, if Iblis and Jesus were nearer to Allah, this does not make Jesus and Iblis Angels. They remained human and Jinn

usermane:
If the Injeel indeed is lost, how then do Christians of today live by it? The apologists claim that at the time this verse was revealed, the original Injeel still exist, but today it has been lost. A counter claim to this is that since the Qur'an is a guide, it should've warned all that the Injeel will be corrupted, instead of urging the Christians to live by it. Or God, the author of Qur'an should've preserved the Injeel like He promised for the Qur'an.

Now, when we speak about New Testament preservation, the Muslim apologists are in full ignorance about it. For not only can today's New Testament manuscripts be traced to the days of Muhammad, but to as far back as the 2nd Century AD. Yes, and when I say New Testament, I mean virtually all passages of the New testament. So, if the Injeel was corrupted, it was corrupted even before Muhammad, therefore it'll be completely ridiculous that the same Qur'an require Christians to live by the Injeel.

Modern muslims must discredit the Injeel to give credibility to the quran because many of the teachings of the quran contradict the Injeel. I read an exegeses of the quran, by ibn Kathir, and in the first 3 pages where Ibn Kathir said that the Injeel but neither be accepted or rejected as the words of allah. And that muslims should reject any part of the injeel that does not agree with the koran and accept any part of the injeel that agree with the koran. In order words, the quran must be the standard to apprasise the Injeel and not the other way round. The quran asked the muslims to validate Islam from the people of the book and not the other way round.

usermane:
Now that it is clear that it makes no sense for the Qur'an to ask Christians to follow the Injeel if it has been lost or will be lost in future, the only other proposition left is that the Injeel is the New testament of today. But such proposition would be problematic because the Qur'an itself already states it CONFIRMS the Injeel whereas there is plenty of contradictions between the Qur'an and the New testament.

So, alas, we ask again. What really is the Injeel?

The writer of the quran can be very funny. How can you ask 2.5billion people to follow a book whose contents have been lost? If, for the better of the doubt, the current injeel is fake, where can we get the original copies? At time muslims make a claim that allah never sent them to make.

Rashduct4luv:


1. Who are the People of Injeel?

This is the complete verse you mischievously quoted:

Let the people of the Injeel (Gospel) judge by what Allah has revealed therein. And whosoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed (then) such (people) are the Fasiqun (the rebellious i.e. disobedient (of a lesser degree) to Allah. Qu'ran 5 vs 47.

Allah revealed the Injeel to Jesus and Injeel was not written by humans. It is definitely not Books according to Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Paul,...

Now there is a word in the dictionary called "holistic". Your approach is not holistic at all. Read the next verse after that verse and you will find the verse below in black bold.

This verse you quoted refers to the Gospel, which is not distorted and altered. Allah is referring in these verses to the commands He stated in the original Gospel so that all the verses are about the unchanged or unaltered commands of Allah in the Gospel.

Allah commands the Christians to judge by the revealed Book, not by the New Testament which is a collection of books written by a wide variety of authors. In this case, Christians are unable to judge by these Books except through the Holy Qur'an and acceptance of Prophet Muhammad's message. This is the only possible way to judge by the Gospel because the Qur'an was sent down affirming its original message and is a protector over it. This is emphasized in verse 48...

Surah 5:48

And We have sent down to you (O Muhammad SAW) the Book (this Quran) in truth, confirming the Scripture that came before it and Mohayminan (trustworthy in highness and a witness) over it (old Scriptures). So judge between them by what Allah has revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging away from the truth that has come to you. To each among you, We have prescribed a law and a clear way. If Allah willed, He would have made you one nation, but that (He) may test you in what He has given you; so strive as in a race in good deeds. The return of you (all) is to Allah; then He will inform you about that in which you used to differ.

And also in the same Surah

Surah 5:68

Say (O Muhammad SAW) "O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians)! You have nothing (as regards guidance) till you act according to the Taurat (Torah), the Injeel (Gospel), and what has (now) been sent down to you from your Lord (the Quran)." Verily, that which has been sent down to you (Muhammad SAW) from your Lord increases in many of them their obstinate rebellion and disbelief. So be not sorrowful over the people who disbelieve.

And there are many more verses....

Conclusion
The verses from the Qur'an, which command the Jews and Christians to judge by the Torah and Gospel respectively actually means that they must judge by the Qur'an since this is the only way to really judge by the Torah and Gospel sent to Moses and Jesus peace be upon them both respectively. For those original revelations taught the coming of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). Therefore, to judge by them means that you must accept the Prophethood of Muhammad (peace be upon him), which in turn means that you must then accept the Qur'an as the word of God and judge by it.

Read more @ Refuting The Argument Regarding The Qur'an Ordering The Jews And Christians To Judge By Their Scriptures

Lmao!

Fairytale.

Empiree:
Anything new?. This is exact argument currently employed by evangelical Christians. There is no reason for Muslims to stress themselves over this.

Let Bibles or Gospels they have speak for themselves. We determine if indeed they have the original injeel today by that. As for you, you have further exposed who you are.

If indeed current Bible or Gospel is injil of Jesus, how come Christians have major different doctrines?. How come some believe Jesus is God and some believe he's not?. These are major differences yet they read the same Bible. So mister, since you have decided to be their microphone, which Bible or Gospel is injil?

So what are the parameters to know the real gospel?

And secondly, are you saying there are no different doctrines in Islam as well? Is this your argument?

sino:


Brother mane, after we have congratulated you that "o da bo o" you have left the Ummah, you come show again?! I know you are at liberty to post anywhere, I had thought you wouldn't have anything to do with us again, but I see you are looking for validation or you are proselytizing your new found (lack of) faith?!

Anyways, let me just say that seven heavens, the meaning and understanding can rightly be understood from the Qur'an! But I know you just like taking one verse, and find a way to suite your opinion regardless of what other verses might suggest. Please also note that the Qur'an had made mention of creations which cannot be SEEN by our naked eyes! Today a lot has been said about multiverse, dark matter, black hole etc. by scientists, but can we see them?!

If the verse states that "Do you not see how Allah has created the seven heavens, one above another", if you can't see the remaining six, at least you can see the one you look up to, does it look like something that anyone could have done except for the Creator?!

Bro mane, have you forgotten this verse of the Qur'an?

"O company of jinn and mankind, if you are able to pass beyond the regions of the heavens and the earth, then pass. You will not pass except by authority [from Allah ]." (Qur'an 55:33)

Hello! Jinn are also creations of Allah (SWT) and they are amongst us, and we can't see them! Again, Allah (SWT) has given permission to explore the heavens, knowing fully well that man would definitely venture into space, and we are "SEEING" things that are mind blowing! Giving credence to the truth that Allah (SWT) is indeed the creator, because there isn't any better explanation for all these!

Finally, Allah (SWT) states in the Qur'an:

"It is Allah who has created seven heavens and of the earth, the like of them. [His] command descends among them so you may know that Allah is over all things competent and that Allah has encompassed all things in knowledge." (Qur'an 65:12)

The 7th century Muslims understood that there are creations of Allah (SWT) that cannot be seen by the naked eyes except by permission of Allah, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist, and if they explained it the way they understood it, using analogy of a tower with dome layers doesn't mean they were wrong and that we can't use our own analogy from modern science to explain this!

All in all, if you want to see the seven heavens, you should look at the one you can see! Do you have better explanations for how it came to be?!

FSM created all.

Empiree:
Anything new?. This is exact argument currently employed by evangelical Christians. There is no reason for Muslims to stress themselves over this.

Let Bibles or Gospels they have speak for themselves. We determine if indeed they have the original injeel today by that. As for you, you have further exposed who you are.

If indeed current Bible or Gospel is injil of Jesus, how come Christians have major different doctrines?. How come some believe Jesus is God and some believe he's not?. These are major differences yet they read the same Bible. So mister, since you have decided to be their microphone, which Bible or Gospel is injil?

The same way there is no uniformity in the interpretations of the quran by all the 5 Islamic schools of thought. Even your tafsir, do not agree on many renditions of the quran. tafsir of ibn kathir and jalalyn do not agree on the hadith rendition of quran 66:1. They provided 2 completely different hadith on the ayah.

Do you know that the JW is one christian organization that rejects some of what the mainstream Christians belief in? Just as they reject the divinity of Christ, they also rejected the presence of heaven, hell or the afterlife (beliefs which are central part of Islamic theology). Why dont you use this belief as a proof positive of some sect that do not align with traditional christian doctrines? I understand, it wont suit your argument.

And to make matter worse, your prophet said Islam with balkanize into 73 different sects and only one sect will be on the right track and the remaining 72 will be fake:

“My ummah will divide into 73 sects, all of them will be in the Fire except for one, and that is the Jamā’ah.” It was said, “And who are they, O Allah’s Messenger?” He responded, “That which I and my Companions are upon today.” Jam'i at-Tirmidhi 40/2641. This hadith is graded sahih.

So stop making it seem as if you are even following the right side of Islam. The tendency that your Islam is acceptable is 1/73, which is below 2%.

tintingz:


Lmao!

Fairytale.

But your family still follows what you call fairy tales. Omo buruku loma fi owo osi juwe ile baba e.

Funny you can be an atheist online and hypocrite among your kith.

The parable of a black sheep...

Rashduct4luv:


But your family still follows what you call fairy tales. Omo buruku loma fi owo osi juwe ile baba e.

Funny you can be an atheist online and hypocrite among your kith.

The parable of a black sheep...

I don't agree with Tintinz in so many things but you don't have to be abusive to drive home your point. You need to apologize for being intolerant here.

Rashduct4luv:


But your family still follows what you call fairy tales. Omo buruku loma fi owo osi juwe ile baba e.

Funny you can be an atheist online and hypocrite among your kith.

The parable of a black sheep...

Yes my family follow fairytales, so?

true2god:
I don't agree with Tintinz in so many things but you don't have to be abusive to drive home your point. You need to apologize for being intolerant here.

Don't mind him, he's the one frustrated.

tintingz:
Yes my family follow fairytales, so?

That's easy to type. Say it. Confront them. Stop the hypocrisy.

true2god:
I don't agree with Tintinz in so many things but you don't have to be abusive to drive home your point. You need to apologize for being intolerant here.

I am not tolerant. I didn't call him here. Atheist ain't called to my threads. He interfered. And what i said is the truth.

tintingz:


Don't mind him, he's the one frustrated.

Frustration is the feeling of being upset or annoyed as a result of being unable to change or achieve something.

This explains you the more.

Rashduct4luv:
I am not tolerant. I didn't call him here. Atheist ain't called to my threads. He interfered. And what i said is the truth.

This is a free space and everybody is entitled to his opinion. If you can't handle someone's argument you can ignore him totally instead of raining diatribe. What example are you showing? Is your action a sunnah? Well, even Abu Bakr said to one of the polytheist who was against the messenger of your prophet:

This was also said by Abu Bakr as-Siddeeq (may Allah be pleased with him), when ‘Urwah ibn Mas‘ood, who came as a negotiator on behalf of the mushrikeen at al-Hudaybiyah, said to the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him): By Allah I see faces, and I see a mixture of people who are most likely going to flee and desert you. Abu Bakr said to him: Suck the clitoris of al-Laat! Would we flee and desert him? He said: Who is that? They said: Abu Bakr. (Sahih Bukhaari (2581))

The prophet made a similar remark:

It was narrated from Ubayy ibn Ka‘b that a man boasted in an ignorant manner of his tribal lineage, so he told him to bite his father’s male member, and he did not use a metaphor. The people looked askance at him, so he said to the people: I can see what you are thinking, and I can only say this: that the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) instructed us: “If you hear someone boasting in an ignorant manner of his tribal lineage, then tell him to bite his father’s male member (Penis), and do not use a metaphor.”(Narrated by Ahmad (35/157); classed as hasan by the commentators on al-Musnad. )

Well your action is ok if it sunnah.

true2god:
This is a free space and everybody is entitled to his opinion. If you can't handle someone's argument you can ignore him totally instead of raining diatribe. What example are you showing? Is your action a sunnah? Well, even Abu Bakr said to one of the polytheist who was against the messenger of your prophet:

This was also said by Abu Bakr as-Siddeeq (may Allah be pleased with him), when ‘Urwah ibn Mas‘ood, who came as a negotiator on behalf of the mushrikeen at al-Hudaybiyah, said to the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him): By Allah I see faces, and I see a mixture of people who are most likely going to flee and desert you. Abu Bakr said to him: Suck the clitoris of al-Laat! Would we flee and desert him? He said: Who is that? They said: Abu Bakr. (Sahih Bukhaari (2581))

The prophet made a similar remark:

It was narrated from Ubayy ibn Ka‘b that a man boasted in an ignorant manner of his tribal lineage, so he told him to bite his father’s male member, and he did not use a metaphor. The people looked askance at him, so he said to the people: I can see what you are thinking, and I can only say this: that the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) instructed us: “If you hear someone boasting in an ignorant manner of his tribal lineage, then tell him to bite his father’s male member (Penis), and do not use a metaphor.”(Narrated by Ahmad (35/157); classed as hasan by the commentators on al-Musnad. )

Well your action is ok if it sunnah.

Well, this is typical of a Christian Islamophobe's comment. They can pick up a text and twist it to suit their whims without regard for the language, grammar, context, settings or antecedents. Can you tell us the antecedent of the two Hadiths you quoted? Discuss the language of the Arabs as regards the words you put in bold?

Keep it up as you are not disappointing me. Here is a post on what they said about Muhammad. Instead of them to face the issues bothering their religion they come here and derail thread with falsehood.

Falsehood for Jesus! The end justify the means.

Rashduct4luv:


Well, this is typical of a Christian Islamophobe's comment. They can pick up a text and twist it to suit their whims without regard for the language, grammar, context, settings or antecedents. Can you tell us the antecedent of the two Hadiths you quoted? Discuss the language of the Arabs as regards the words you put in bold?

Keep it up as you are not disappointing me. Here is a post on what they said about Muhammad. Instead of them to face the issues bothering their religion they come here and derail thread with falsehood.

Falsehood for Jesus! The end justify the means.

I am quoting your text; no more no less. You can expalin the language, grammar, context, settings or antecedents; educate us on the antecedent that led to your prophet and his sahaba using a very foul and filthy language. If you can't kindly ignore and pretend you never see it.

usermane:
4. Dhul Qarnayn

In the 18th chapter of Qur'an, the reader is introduced to the titular character - Dhul Qarnayn(the two horned), a powerful emperor who traveled far east and far west(setting and rising places of the sun), and up north where he built a mighty fence to stall invasion of barbaric tribes(18:85-98).

As the Qur'an never identify character by a proper name, it is my suspicion that the author expects the reader to have been familiarized with Dhul Qarnayn from external sources.

usermane:
Dhul Qarnayn as Alexander the great

In the formative years of Islam, the character most associated with the title was Alexander the great. Alexander built a massive empire in the third century BC, legends say that he traveled so far east and west seeking the rising and setting places of the sun. And also that he helped erect a massive wall to keep barbaric invaders away.

No wonder the earlier scholars didn't really dispute Alexander as the identity of Dhul Qarnayn. And so it was all OK, except for one little problem. Alexander was known a pagan, a worshipper of Greek gods. It would be a matter of time before later scholars start questioning the Alexander theory.

usermane:
Cyrus the great as Dhul Qarnayn

It is quite indeed interesting theory. Cyrus may qualify as Dhul Qarnayn if we take into account the size and location of his empire: Syria and Asia minor in the west, Indus in the east and Caucasus up north. More noteworthy, Cyrus qualify as Muslim(Zoroastrian) and an honorable ruler far more than Alexander.

The fatal flaw in the Cyrus theory is that no walls have been related to have been built by him. Not in legends, not in historical records.

I once discussed this with Taiwo here. It's like you are gradually embracing Atheism poco a poco.

If you are confused then ask those that know.

1 – Dhu’l-Qarnayn who is mentioned in the Qur’aan is not Alexander the Macedonian or Greek who built Alexandria. This Alexander is the one who died at the age of 33, as mentioned in the Christian books. He lived 323 years before the birth of the Messiah (peace be upon him).

Dhu’l-Qarnayn who is mentioned in the Qur’aan lived at the time of Ibraaheem (peace be upon him), and it is said that he became Muslim at the hands of Ibraaheem (peace be upon him), and he went on pilgrimage to the Ka’bah walking. The scholars differed concerning him, as to whether he was a Prophet or a righteous slave and just king, but they agree that he was a Muslim, a monotheist (believer in Tawheed) and one who was obedient to Allaah.

The correct view is to refrain from stating what he was, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “I do not know whether Tubba’ was a Prophet or not, and I do not know whether Dhu’l-Qarnayn was a Prophet or not.”

(Narrated by al-Haakim and al-Bayhaqi; classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Jaami’, no. 5524).

2 – The difference between this righteous slave, and the Macedonian Alexander who was a kaafir, is well known to Muslim scholars. Ibn Katheer (may Allaah have mercy on him) said in al-Badaayah wa’l-Nahaayah (1/493):

“It was narrated that Qutaadah said: Alexander was Dhu’l-Qarnayn and his father was the first of the Caesars, and he was one of the descendants of Saam ibn Nooh (Shem the son of Noah). As for Dhu’l-Qarnayn, he was Alexander son of Philip… ibn Roomi ibn al-Asfar ibn Yaqaz ibn al-‘Ees ibn Ishaaq ibn Ibraaheem al-Khaleel. This is the genealogy of him given by al-Haafiz ibn ‘Asaakir in his Taareekh. (He is known as) the Macedonian, the Greek, the Egyptian, builder of Alexandria, on the events of whose life the Greeks based their calendar. He came much later than the first Alexander. This was approximately three hundred years before the Messiah. The philosopher Aristotle was his minister and he is the one who killed Daar ibn Daar (Darius) and humiliated the kings of Persia and invaded their land.

We have drawn attention to him because many people think that they are one and the same and that the one who is mentioned in the Qur’aan is the one whose minister was Aristotle, which has resulted in a lot of mistakes and far-reaching corruption. The former was a righteous believing slave and a just king, and the latter was a mushrik and his minister was a philosopher. There were more than two thousand years between the two, so what comparison can there be between them? They are not alike at all and they have nothing in common, except in the mind of a fool who does not know anything.”

Once again you are mistaken again. Our Dhu’l-Qarnayn was a Muslim. Not a Zoroastrian or a Mushrik. And we need no external sources to complete our Books for us.

Rashduct4luv:


Frustration is the feeling of being upset or annoyed as a result of being unable to change or achieve something.

This explains you the more.

I replied your post without making any personal related comment, you replied making personal statement.

Is this not your frustrations?

Rashduct4luv:


That's easy to type. Say it. Confront them. Stop the hypocrisy.

I can give you their numbers and start calling them or even organize a family meeting and announce it, if that will make any better. Nonsense.

You should learn from your apostate prophet.

tintingz:
I replied your post without making any personal related comment, you replied making personal statement.

Is this not your frustrations?

What do you expect if you reply to someone who didn't refer to you? Sorry, not mine. It's yours!

Rashduct4luv:
Once again you are mistaken again. Our Dhu’l-Qarnayn was a Muslim. Not a Zoroastrian or a Mushrik. And we need no external sources to complete our Books for us.

If your book contradict all other external sources, should we reject all of them (external sources) and accept what Islamic scholars (who are not even in agreement) tell us?

Rashduct4luv:


What do you expect if you reply to someone who didn't refer to you? Sorry, not mine. It's yours!

Are you the one to tell me who I should reply to? In a public forum?

tintingz:


I can give you their numbers and start calling them or even organize a family meeting and announce it, if that will make any better. Nonsense.

You should learn from your apostate prophet.

Nonsense.
Stay your atheist lane make i stay my Islamic lane.

Lakum deenukum waliyadeen.

Rashduct4luv:


Nonsense.
Stay your atheist lane make i stay my Islamic lane.

Lakum deenukum waliyadeen.

I will keep disturbing Islamic lane.

tintingz:
Are you the one to tell me who I should reply to? In a public forum?

So stop complaining whenever you are bashed.

tintingz:


I will keep disturbing Islamic lane.

You have nowhere to go before.

true2god:
The same way there is no uniformity in the interpretations of the quran by all the 5 Islamic schools of thought. Even your tafsir, do not agree on many renditions of the quran. tafsir of ibn kathir and jalalyn do not agree on the hadith rendition of quran 66:1. They provided 2 completely different hadith on the ayah.

First all, get your fact right. Tafsir(explanation of the meaning of Quran). Tawil(interpretation of the meaning of Qur'an). There is different btw the two.

Example of tasfir, if I suddenly hit a car in front of me and the victim calls the police, police come and I will try to explain what and how it happened.

Example of Tawil, if I say he "kicks the bucket". I will now interpret what that means. Neither tasfir not tawil changes the text of the Qur'an. Muslims don't have to agree with xyz tafsir of Ayah. There may be others credible explanations. Then you pick whichever is close to the meaning of Qur'an. But to reject the Ayah itself is another thing entirely.

Do you know that the JW is one christian organization that rejects some of what the mainstream Christians belief in? Just as they reject the divinity of Christ, they also rejected the presence of heaven, hell or the afterlife (beliefs which are central part of Islamic theology).

this is Creed not tafsir or Tawil. This is rejection of certain portion of the Bible. Anyone who rejects certain portion of Quran is a disbeliever.

Why dont you use this belief as a proof positive of some sect that do not align with traditional christian doctrines? I understand, it wont suit your argument

this is flaw with Christianity. If a Christian sect rejects mainstream Creed like Sonship or divinity of Jesus it means they don't believe that aspect. Therefore, we look into why they reject that. If their argument is based on 'Bible doesn't say that' while other CHRISTIANs believe that then, Bible is the problem.

And to make matter worse, your prophet said Islam with balkanize into 73 different sects and only one sect will be on the right track and the remaining 72 will be fake:

no sects in Islam reject major Creed. Where differences lie are non paradise threatening issues. 73 sects Hadith is subjective to tafsir.

So stop making it seem as if you are even following the right side of Islam. The tendency that your Islam is acceptable is 1/73, which is below 2%.

kindly point out which sect of Islam reject

Shahadah

Salat

Ramadan

Zakat

Hajj


If any sect rejected any of these is not in the fold of Islam. These are simple required and obligatory practices that must not be rejected. So which muslim group have you seen rejected these?

tintingz:


So what are the parameters to know the real gospel?

the parameters lie in their Gospel and Christians.

If a Christian says he believes Jesus is God (trinitarian)and another Christian says he doesn't believe Jesus is God(Unitarian). Common sense should tell you they both claim to read the same Book. You ask for reference from the one who believes Jesus is God from his Bible. A Christian who doesn't believe Jesus is God would tell you the same Bible reference doesn't proof he's God. So you can see major differences. It means either their Gospel is lying to them or they are lying to themselves.

But if you ask 10 Muslims from 10 different countries if muhammad is God?. They will all give you same answer "NO". This is universal doctrine. But you can never get the same answer for Christians which means they have different doctrines. This is a major flaw.

So just do yourself a favor and select 10 CHRISTIANs from 10 different sects and ask them if Jesus is God?. I am sure you will get different answers.

And secondly, are you saying there are no different doctrines in Islam as well? Is this your argument?

I have explained this to true2god up there

Empiree:
the parameters lie in their Gospel and Christians.

If a Christian says he believes Jesus is God (trinitarian)and another Christian says he doesn't believe Jesus is God(Unitarian). Common sense should tell you they both claim to read the same Book. You ask for reference from the one who believes Jesus is God from his Bible. A Christian who doesn't believe Jesus is God would tell you the same Bible reference doesn't proof he's God. So you can see major differences. It means either their Gospel is lying to them or they are lying to themselves.

But if you ask 10 Muslims from 10 different countries if muhammad is God?. They will all give you same answer "NO". This is universal doctrine. But you can never get the same answer for Christians which means they have different doctrines. This is a major flaw.

So just do yourself a favor and select 10 CHRISTIANs from 10 different sects and ask them if Jesus is God?. I am sure you will get different answers.

I have explained this to true2god up there

This does not nullify the gospel originality we see today, it's just the interpretations the people made up.

Muslims themselves cannot produce the so called original gospel.

And thirdly, we don't even see Christians fighting and killing each other because of this, but in the Muslim world they are fighting and killing themselves because of their doctrines that differ.

Rashduct4luv:


You have nowhere to go before.

Oh I've many places to go. Islamic lane is one of them.

Rashduct4luv:


So stop complaining whenever you are bashed.

Where did I complain?