My cousin graduated from medical school 3 years ago and is still earning 90k. Whereas all the other cousins of the same age group in other fields (even those that had 2.2) are earning much more

90k is over a million naira per year.

for a beginner. And might not even include locum.

that's chicken change?

or do you mean 90k per annum [which seems very unlikely]

as per your cousins making big money elsewhere- i thought everyone keeps harping on the sorry state of and lack of jobs in nigeria.

so what are we to believe?

tpia@:

90k is over a million naira per year.

for a beginner. And might not even include locum.

that's chicken change?

or do you mean 90k per annum [which seems very unlikely]

as per your cousins making big money elsewhere- i thought everyone keeps harping on the sorry state of and lack of jobs in nigeria.

so what are we to believe?

did you not read the part where he said 3years? after graduating and working for 3 years you still consider him a beginner?? na wa o

tpia@:

90k is over a million naira per year.

for a beginner. And might not even include locum.

that's chicken change?

or do you mean 90k per annum [which seems very unlikely]

as per your cousins making big money elsewhere- i thought everyone keeps harping on the sorry state of and lack of jobs in nigeria.

so what are we to believe?

for all the time he spent in university, and the hours he works i don't think 90k/month after 3 years is enough. of course it's a lot for some people, but not everyone can live on that.

as per the other cousins, it's not like they're making 'big' money, just much more than 90k for those with 3 years experience. and the reason i said healthcare is the worst is because in the other industries, there are more high paying jobs. if you have connections and can work hard, it's possible to get good paying jobs in banking/oil & gas/telecommunications etc. but in healthcare it's mostly the top level jobs that pay well.

what to believe? read around the career section, talk to drs/nurses/hospital workers and their mates in other industries and compare the salary growth. then you can decide what to believe.

blazing80:

did you not read the part where he said 3years? after graduating and working for 3 years you still consider him a beginner??

yes.

GL:

for all the time he spent in university, and the hours he works i don't think 90k/month after 3 years is enough. of course it's a lot for some people, but not everyone can live on that.

as per the other cousins, it's not like they're making 'big' money, just much more than 90k for those with 3 years experience. and the reason i said healthcare is the worst is because in the other industries, there are more high paying jobs. if you have connections and can work hard, it's possible to get good paying jobs in banking/oil & gas/telecommunications etc. but in healthcare it's mostly the top level jobs that pay well.

Sometimes I laugh when people talk of low incomes for certain professionals. Medicine does not generally yield high premiums in Nigeria except one works for a high-paying private hospital or is a consultant at public hospitals. Why are the medical doctors complaining of low wages versus number of years studying? In fair comparison, how much do vet doctors in public or even private practice earn? Did they not spend the same number of years studying?

If someone studies Economics and gets a job after graduating immediately, the 3 years work experience before his fellow that studied medicine graduates is definitely going to boost his earning power. B4 U all begin to castigate me I studied a 6-year professional course but do not begrudge my friends who did 4 years and seem to earn more.

I have noted that spending 8+ years or more to study BEd, MEd and PhD in Education does not entitle one to higher pay than fresh entry in an oil company. Obtaining a masters in Architecture and working in the government sector does not mean I deserve jumbo pay more than those entry level in banks. sad fact but tis true.

Anyways how do we justify the pay increase to number of hours worked? Most of us know that doctors in public hospitals do not resume before 9.00 a.m. and often leave by 2 - 3 p.m. to enable them do those private practice (PP) consultations.

BabaOnileK:

I have noted that spending 8+ years or more to study BEd, MEd and PhD in Education does not entitle one to higher pay than fresh entry in an oil company. Obtaining a masters in Architecture and working in the government sector does not mean I deserve jumbo pay more than those entry level in banks. sad fact but tis true.
Anyways how do we justify the pay increase to number of hours worked? Most of us know that doctors in public hospitals do not resume before 9.00 a.m. and often leave by 2 - 3 p.m. to enable do those private practice (PP) consultations.

Sometimes I just feel that the contemporary rent-seeking culture in Nigeria does not suit the establishment of government run hospitals.
Maybe the government should consider hiring these doctors on fixed short term contracts or more radically even just handing the hospitals over to voluntary organizations like churches and NGO'S whereby these entities would be allowed to charge for the marginal cost of their services whilst the government funds capital expenditure.

tensor777:

Sometimes I just feel that the contemporary rent-seeking culture in Nigeria does not suit the establishment of government run hospitals.
Maybe the government should consider hiring these doctors on fixed short term contracts or more radically even just handing the hospitals over to voluntary organizations like churches and NGO'S whereby these entities would be allowed to charge for the marginal cost o their services whilst the government funds capital expenditure.

Very smart . . . .exactly what a 2 year old will suggest

GL:

I think healthcare is the worst place to be in nigeria salary-wise. My cousin graduated from medical school 3 years ago and is still earning 90k. Whereas all the other cousins of the same age group in other fields (even those that had 2.2) are earning much more. I'm in medical school myself, and many times I wish I had chosen some other course.

You must be kidding us there.

You are forgetting that medicine is a profession so it is incumbent on every newly qualified doctor to seek to specialise and continually update his skills and knowledge.

There should be no question of such junior doctors working for a few years in a general hospital without taking any new courses and yet still expect to get promoted.
It doesn't quite work out like that anywhere in the world.

However 90 000 naira per month is quite a good salary for a fresh graduate in Nigeria.

90k is pretty good 4 a beginner.

Apparently a post NYSC doctor in Nigeria earns about N90K a month (maybe N106K at federal).

In UK, a trainee doctor makes circa N693K a month.

In South Korea, it is circa N600K a month.

Sagamite:

Apparently a post NYSC doctor in Nigeria earns about N90K a month (maybe N106K at federal).

In UK, a trainee doctor makes circa N693K a month.

In South Korea, it is circa N600K a month.

Going by your " logic";

The post NYSC Doctor pays N15k per month rent on a 1-bed apt in an average area

The UK trainee Doctor pays N15k per month rent ona 1-bed apt in an average area

Well, dunno about .Korea, but i guess the Doctor's rent too is N15k per month, WHY NOT

^^^ I don't get your question/point. Can you provide a bit more clarity?

Secondly, what logic are you alluding too?

Sagamite:

Apparently a post NYSC doctor in Nigeria earns about N90K a month (maybe N106K at federal).

In UK, a trainee doctor makes circa N693K a month.

In South Korea, it is circa N600K a month.

Our economy is not the same with theirs.Okay?

jamesugo:

Our economy is not the same with theirs.Okay?

And your point is?

Sagamite:

And your point is?

Let the doctors accept the 75% in good fiath.
From my previous contribution,90k is pretty good for a beginner,120k for a doctor who has worked 2 years ,
It increases gradually.OK

jamesugo:

Let the doctors accept the 75% in good fiath.
From my previous contribution,90k is pretty good for a beginner,120k for a doctor who has worked 2 years ,
It increases gradually.OK

And your point is what? Why should they be remunerated based on years of service and not their actual responsibilities and skills.
Moreover we are talking about general hospitals here and not specialist teaching hospitals. Fixed term contracts would make more sense rather than civil service style employment contracts.

jamesugo:

Let the doctors accept the 75% in good fiath.
From my previous contribution,90k is pretty good for a beginner,120k for a doctor who has worked 2 years ,
It increases gradually.OK

Why did you tell me "our economy is different from theirs"?

Anything in my post suggests I was not aware of that?

tensor777:

And your point is what? Why should they be remunerated based on years of service and not their actual responsibilities and skills.
Moreover we are talking about general hospitals here and not specialist teaching hospitals. Fixed term contracts would make more sense rather than civil service style employment contracts.

You need not show any ignorance here.
People are remunerated based on responsibilities and not years(although that may determine increments), that is why the CEO even if he's just joining a company will earn more than the gate man who has put in 30years service.
Secondly, The teaching hospitals are part of the facilities we are talking about, moreover the general hospitals have consultant led units and teaching for interns(fresh graduates).
Fixed term contracts will make more sense, fine, but are you aware that will be a lot more expensive for the government?Do you also know that will not be good for continuity in patient care?Also, you should know that even in the UK which uses this system, there are many posts called substantive posts which are in essence, long term civil service roles in the NHS.Get more information before commenting on what you know nothing about.

reindeer:

You need not show any ignorance here.
People are remunerated based on responsibilities and not years(although that may determine increments), that is why the CEO even if he's just joining a company will earn more than the gate man who has put in 30years service.
Secondly, The teaching hospitals are part of the facilities we are talking about, moreover the general hospitals have consultant led units and teaching for interns(fresh graduates).
Fixed term contracts will make more sense, fine, but are you aware that will be a lot more expensive for the government?Do you also know that will not be good for continuity in patient care?Also, you should know that even in the UK which uses this system, there are many posts called substantive posts which are in essence, long term civil service roles in the NHS.Get more information before commenting on what you know nothing about.

Now look here guy, I am just coming up with random suggestions. But ask yourself for how long would a junior doctor remain in a general hospital before going over to specialise OR set up in private practice as a General Practitioner 
We are not talking about those junior doctors who are fortunate enough to be  promoted to management and administrative roles within a General Hospital but solely about those who for, whatever reason, have remained at that junior level for a considerable number of years.
Should such  persons not, in the interest of fairness, efficiency, and workplace harmony move on and make way for  fresh junior doctors?

Doctors should not go on strike! Rather they should resign and look for better paid jobs. And before I am crucified by doctors on this thread, I am a doctor myself working for Lagos state and I am already making plans for my own exit.
The only reason I am still there is because I have a passion for medical education and am actively involved in the training of students and residents (specialist). Right now I am frustrated and don't think I can last much longer in the system. Unfortunately I am not alone, several other colleagues on my level (Seniors) are planning to get out. One is planning to leave to sell children's books, not even to practice medicine and that lady is one fine gynaecologist, dedicated and hardworking, she doesn't even do any PP.
Lagos state will win the battle, but eventually loose the war. At the end of the day the only staff they will be able to keep will be those that cannot get anything better, or those that know how to work the system and do little or no work, while they run their private practices on full swing.
At present Lagos state cant even retain houseofficers, even the students who graduate from the Lagos state Medical school would rather sit at home for months doing absolutely nada while waiting for an appointment in LUTH or other federal institutions. So who do you think does their job? Its the same for nurses, pharmacist, technicians, most Lagos state hospitals are manned by an ageing staff because the younger ones just use the facility as a stop gap till they get something better. So as they are recruiting people are leaving.
It is not just in Lagos but in most states in the federation but Lagos state is peculiar in that they have a large population seeking these services.
To those that think we are asking for too much, a high court judge in Lagos takes home over N2milion, gets a Prado jeep as official car and accommodation with police protection. Under Conmess the highest paid doctor will take home N801,00.(All allowances included) an official car is a privilege not guaranteed and neither is accommodation part of the package. That is someone with a minimum of 17 years in the system.

Under Conmess the highest paid doctor will take home N801,00.(All allowances included)

per month?

that's almost a million naira with no corresponding infrastructural improvement, which imo, is a matter medical professionals and the govt should take more seriously.

most Lagos state hospitals are manned by an ageing staff because the younger ones just use the facility as a stop gap till they get something better. So as they are recruiting people are leaving.

true, brain drain is a huge problem in nigeria.

i think the govt should seriously look into bringing in foreign workers same way western countries are doing.

One is planning to leave to sell children's books, not even to practice medicine and that lady is one fine gynaecologist, dedicated and hardworking, she doesn't even do any PP.

people do get tired of the the constant workload and prefer to try their hand at something that could bring in more money with less work.


also, some doctors successfully switch careers [though not relatively many].

eg

khaled hosseini, author of The kite runner.


He entered the University of California, San Diego, School of Medicine, where he earned his M.D. in 1993. He completed his residency in internal medicine at Cedars-Sinai Medical Center in Los Angeles in 1996. He practiced medicine until a year and a half after the release of The Kite Runner.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khaled_Hosseini

true, brain drain is a huge problem in Nigeria.

i think the govt should seriously look into bringing in foreign workers same way western countries are doing.
[quote][/quote]

Foreign workers are not charity workers, why would a South African, or Egyptian or even Ghanaian doctor or nurse want to come to Nigeria? For a lower salary, poorer working conditions ( No accommodation, no electricity, no offices or decent call rooms and worse still no equipment). If any foreign doctors comes what you will need to pay him and keep him in relative comfort, will easily cover what will pay 5 or 6 local doctors. And such a person can only do the job of 1 person not 5. I am using Africans not even European.
It is so funny that we always want equivalent service but are not willing to pay equivalent fees.
One of the states in the North tried it, they brought in 'doctors' from Egypt paid them 3 times what they were paying Nigerian Consultants at the end of the day one of them confessed that most of them were actually technicians. (Just google, Egyptian doctors,Maiduguri or Nigeria).

why would a South African, or Egyptian or even Ghanaian doctor or nurse want to come to Nigeria?

those arent the only choices and from all indications, south africa itself imports nigerian doctors.

if the govt wants to fill the gap left by departing nigerian professionals, it would not have a problem doing so.

it's just not a priority, that's all.

Government cannot afford foreign professionals, QED. To come and work where and live where. Is it an American surgeon you will ask to work in LUTH and take home $2000 a month and live in Surulere, live on generators and pump water from the bore hole while coming to work in a 2004 model Toyota Camry. If Government wants to bring in a surgeon from Europe or America first he will be accommodated in VI or Ikoyi (Serviced apartment). A good car with a driver (at least Prado jeep). His office must have electricity and Ac's running round the clock. His children will only go to schools like British International School (BIS). All this before we talk of salary.
If government is serious, make life less brutish for the average Nigerian professional and see productivity grow.

tpia@:

those arent the only choices and from all indications, south africa itself imports nigerian doctors.

if the govt wants to fill the gap left by departing nigerian professionals, it would not have a problem doing so.

it's just not a priority, that's all.

south Africa finds it easy to import because they pay better and have better packages for doctors.What will you atttract foreign doctors with?and why should they go to Nigeria when they can equally get into europe or america?

allycat:

To those that think we are asking for too much, a high court judge in Lagos takes home over N2milion, gets a Prado jeep as official car and accommodation with police protection. Under Conmess the highest paid doctor will take home N801,00.(All allowances included) an official car is a privilege not guaranteed and neither is accommodation part of the package. That is someone with a minimum of  17 years in the system.

Now that is messed up!

What utter rubbish! With all due respect, the medical profession is more specialist and more rigorous than the law profession.

Even in the UK, the highest judiciary officer (Lord Chief Justice) makes £240K per year and the NHS Chief Executive makes £279K.

Worse still, a high court judge I bet is not the most senior official in the Lagos judiciary.

^^^^
NHS CEO's aren't always from the medical profession.

^^^ Yeah, I know. But they are on par in rank with the Lord Chief Justice rank.

Yeah same public sector pay scale
My org's CEO is on £250K per annum

It is just ridiculous that some senior judge (not even the most senior) can earn more than double what the most senior medical officer makes.

The figure of N801,000 I quoted is the new salary scale doctors are fighting for for not what they are receiving now, While that of the Judiciary is what they are earning now. The average consultant in the Lagos state system is on GL 15 that is CONMESS 5. The qualification required is MBBS plus at least 5- 7 years of postgraduate study . Average age being 45years. So these are people who are at the apex of the profession. Presently they earn about N280,000/month and what is being requested is N444,311.583 or N5,3million per annum.

In the 80's under Idiagbon and Buhari, there was a crises where doctors were asking for improved conditions of service and funding of teaching hospitals and at the end of the day, government crushed the strike and sacked so many doctors. Thus began the mass exodus of doctors to Saudi, Oman, UK and America from which the system has never recovered. Idiagbon God rest his soul) was later to be a victim of another strike for the same reasons. He fell ill and was rushed to Ilorin teaching hospital and doctors were on strike and he died.
Lagos State will win the battle, after all doctors have gone back to work but in the long run are going to loose the war. They will slowly but surely loose good hands and will have to do more to attract new ones.