najib632:
You have'nt said anything to prove or atleast give a hint to what you're claiming. The gosple of Barnabas was found by the Turkish customs officials in the hands of smugglers and then it was confiscated from them. It was handed over to the Turkish national Museum and it was carbon dated and found out to be 2000 years old. It was written with gold and it was in Aramaic, the language of Jesus A.S. This is enough to prove its originality and I watched this on Aljazeera so I have an excellent proof. The gosple of saint Thomas on the other hand was found in egypt by archeologists. It was carbon dated and found out to be 800 years old. It contained stories the Christians have forgotten about Jesus A.S. But these stories were contained in the Qur'an, thus this proves its originality and correctness. The dead see scrolls are being hidden from the public, if there was truthfulness in their affairs, the Britons wouldn't hid them. You better don't lie to yourself, I'd rather follow Barnabas and Thomas (may peace be upon them) than Paul. Barnabas' surname was also written in his gospel but I can't recall it and I just ran out of data, you can look it up yourself.

true2god:
Can you please provide any 'useful' narrative on ANY prophet using the quran. Kindly give me the surah and the ayah. I listed the life lesson each biblica; event taught us but you choosed to ignore. The bible is not a story book like 'tales by moonlight' but a recorded event to serve as a guide for the future generation. While muslims condemn the bible, they however have no other source to go to in order to have a complete narrative of how some events took place. Many ayah and surah in the quran does not make sense without muslims using the Bible to get a better picture of the event.

true2god:
How was the quran edited to give a better narrative of how some events happened in the bible. Mention a single biblical events that the quran threw a comprehensive and a brighter light on? As I said ealier, reading (not reciting) the quran alone without reference to other materials (like the Torah and the injil, the hadith and the seerah) will give one a serious headache because it is poorly arranged and in most cases does not make sense, even to a six year old child.

true2god:
This story was lifted from the Torah by mohammed when he was in exile in medina. Mohammed can never claim originality to the story because the event was recorded over 3000 years before mohammed was born. Now let me ask you, how can a man inspired by allah lust after his adopted son's wife, Zainab (quran 33:37. You can also get the full story from altabari) and allah encouraged Zaid ibn mohammed (his adopted son) to divorce zainab so that mohammed can marry her? Where have you ever seen this sort of a thing happen except with mohammed?

true2god:
You do not need to believe, however mohammed asked muslims to consult the people of the book for clarification in any religious matter.

true2god:
The prophets of God are not angels or superhuman. The Bible was not written to filter their grave mistakes but to learn from it and avoid similar mistakes. The christian God is against covering and protecting evil and does not give his prophets special privilege, unlike allah who gave mohammed immunity to do what he likes and sleep with any woman she likes (quran 33:50-53)
The Islamic narrative is an hadith which can be called rumours and gossips. How can I trust the sabahas who the shia (your fellow muslims) do not view as honourable and whose narrations in the hadith had been deemed either weak or fabricated? The bible was not written to patrnonize the prophets but to learn from them and avoid making the same errors they made.

true2god:
The Bible completely condemn incetiuous relationship. See details below,

Leviticus 20:17:
If a man marries his sister, the daughter of either his father or his mother, and they have sexual relations, it is a disgrace. They are to be publicly removed from their people. He has dishonored his sister and will be held responsible.

Read Leviticus 18:8–18 and Deuteronomy 27:22-25, you will get full reading where God condemned incest and placed curse on whoever engaged in such. However allah in quran 33:50-53 approves such for mohammed.

Mohammed lifted the story from the Bible and replicated it in the quran. It was not a strange or new story during the time of mohammed; he heard it from the Jews and the Christians around Medina during his lifetime. I can actually say that Allah revealed to me that in 1999 Olusegun Obasanjo was Nigeria's head of state. How can you call an already recorded event a revelation from allah and recorded in the quran while the Jews have been aware of it for over 3000 years before mohammed?

Man is a freewill agent. If God saves one from a terrible accident that does not mean that if he enters a lions den he wont be eaten by a lion. Human are not robot that are programmed to act in a certain way; man have will and emotion and you cant blame God for the foolishness of man. This is exaxtly what you attempt to do in order to condemn the biblical account of a recorded event. And FYA, the Bible contains the good, the bad and the ugly and it is all for us to learn and never repeat mistakes of the past.

You really need to seek forgiveness.

Rashduct4luv:
The Qur'an made sense to the best generations of Muslims when the Bible was not in existence as it is now and it will keep making sense to us without the Bible. How will something you passionately hate make sense to you? You only need complete events in story books, movies and similar works of literature. What is contained in our Books is sufficient for us. Once again we disbelieve in your Books and we believe whatever our Books affirm.

Rashduct4luv:
The Qur'an is not competing with your Bible. And the theme of the OP is to strengthen the belief in our Books and the disbelief in other irrelevances. You do not believe in our Book but you are here fighting tooth and nail for us to believe in your Book.
The Qur'an is the the word of Allah. The Hadith is the tradition of the Prophet. The Seerah are narrations which may be true or not. The Bible contains words of God, word of servants of God, words of incest, words of drunkard, words of murderer, words of foolish people all mixed together.

Rashduct4luv:
There is sanity and authenticity in Islamic Books. The Qur'an is written in Arabic. So you need the knowledge of the language to fully grasp its details, settings and context. If it's giving you headache then use Paracetamol, Acetaminophen, Diclofenac or Ibuprofen depending how mild or strong the headache is....

Rashduct4luv:
I asked i can you read about Lot's daughter's incestuous rape, Noah being naked drunk, David being a wife coveter, murderer to your six year old daughter? No, the only thing those kids would be taught will be Noah saved the people from the flood, David killed Goliath and Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed, Lot and his daughters were saved while the wife looked back and turned to pillar of salt FULL STOP.

Rashduct4luv:
You will only drag yourself back. How many time will i explain this same story to you? If Muhammad lifted Bible storys that was compiled for 1000s of years in just 23 years then he is a superman. However we know he is unlettered.

Rashduct4luv:
We have discussed this previously, if you have forgotten.....

Rashduct4luv:
Stop shifting goal post. Anwer the questions you were asked. Does your God know the future?

Rashduct4luv:
Why save people from Homosexuality only for them to commit incest?

true2god:
This is a very bad thing but that does not mean it never happened. Besides, Lot is not a prophet, at least going by the Jewish and christian beliefs and theology. How did it happen that Lot's daughter commited incest with their father? Was the affair consensual? It was never a consensual relationship; the daughters, desperate to have children (because the lost their husbands in Sodom), got their father drunk, had sex with him, got pregnant and bore children.

What is the consequnence of their action?

1) The seed they produced were cursed and they multiply to become the Moabites.

2) The spiritual link between Abraham and Lot was broken. While Abraham's seed was blessed, the seed of Lot was in contant sufferings war and hostility.

3) The land of Moab was cursed and it became barren and a desert that was unproductive.

The lessons learnt:

1) Incentious relationship is bad no matter the reason.

2) Lot's daughters were desperate instead of praying to God to help them with another husbands.

3) Short-cut is never the answer to a man's problem; the future for the 'short-cut' is always fraught with disappointments, despair and regrets.

Can you please provide the quranic narrative to this event?

true2god:
Man is a freewill agent. If God saves one from a terrible accident that does not mean that if he enters a lions den he wont be eaten by a lion. Human are not robot that are programmed to act in a certain way; man have will and emotion and you cant blame God for the foolishness of man. This is exaxtly what you attempt to do in order to condemn the biblical account of a recorded event. And FYA, the Bible contains the good, the bad and the ugly and it is all for us to learn and never repeat mistakes of the past.

You really need to seek forgiveness.

Rashduct4luv:
My forgiveness is in using the word God. We do not abuse Jesus or Almighty God like you abuse Muhammad and Allah.

Rashduct4luv:
Muhammad is not a superman so stop saying he lifted things from the Bible. The Bible was compiled long after Muhammad.

Rashduct4luv:
I would remind you again. You have the right to live as you like. But dictating how i live my life is Christianisation.

true2god:
You abuse Jesus christ by calling him 'the son of Mary'. In African and Arabian culture, you call the son by his father's name and not his mother's name. It is an insult for you to call me David Rosemary (where Rosemary is my mother's name). Since Jesus did not have an earthly father but a heavenly father, we call him 'the son God' and it is an insult to us for muslims to call Jesus 'the son of Mary'. Also remember, Mohammed also called the christians and the Jews 'the worst of creatures'(quran 98:6). Dont be a hypocrite bro!

true2god:
Which Torah and Injil was mohammed refering to? Where is your copy of the Torah and the Injil?
I am not dictating how you should live your life but stop being intellectually dishonest bro.

Rashduct4luv:


Here is my last reply to you. Jesus has not earthly father hence calling him by his mother's name is not an abuse. Our God has no son, no wife and He is far above procreation as He doesn't support from His creation. Jesus has a mother. If you call Jesus son of God because He has no father then what about Adam? This is double standand plus hypocrisy. The verse you quoted from Al Bayyina does not portray what you said. Allah says " Verily those who has disbelieved from among the people of the Books.............they are the worst of creatures. You just keep cherry picking the Qur'an as you do your Bible. Anyways i am tired of your rantings and mentions! Only you like 12 mentions!



I think intellectual dishonesty is not directly answering the question at hand, shifting goal post, dragging someone back to a previously concluded discussion....
Save your mentions cos i won't only respond to mentions with substance.

Solohmony:

Very funny person!
Fake books that were written in 16th and 17th centuries. Check Wikipedia to confirm what I am saying. The most awesome evidences for life of Christ is from his disciples, Jewish community and honest historians. For one prophet to come after 600 years to deny historical reality with just a myth sound foolish.

Solohmony:
My guys[b]evidences[/b] are too much that Jesus was crucified, died and resurrected.

Solohmony:
According to hadith, Uthman the third caliph burn many varieties of Quran during Islamic empire.
The question how are you sure that Quran you are holding is the real one?

true2god:
Nice try bro and please stop opening controvewrsial thread you cannot defend intelectually,

Rashduct4luv:
What is nonintellectual in this post?

Rashduct4luv:
Your belief is for you. I am just here to state our belief on the matters which is contrary to your beliefs. So how is it unintellectual?

true2god:
Your post lacks intellectual honesty because you are using the quran to validate or invalidate the Bible, which is wrong. You cannot use a material that came latest to judge materials and information that were available hundreds of years earlier.

true2god:
And I asked you to provide a comprehensive quranic narrative to the events which are contrary to your beliefs. If you are in a law court, the prosecutor will expect you to provide a comprehensive details on how an event took place. If I only say, upon a cross-examination by a competent prosecutor, 'the man didn't steal the car', I am not providing the complete info. I need to also provide an alibi and a witness to make my point valid. The quran lacks details and poorly written.

Rashduct4luv:
Using this your theory we can say the OT is better than the NT, even the Psalms is better than the NT since they came before it.

You don't believe in the Qur'an and i also don't believe in the Bible. So?

Which date was the Bible compiled in the form it was today that you keep mentioning the Bible as if it was available then?

Rashduct4luv:
So you expect me to write the complete story of Abraham, Aaron, David, Jesus, etc. right? Islam does not have time for all those stories. The lessons are enough for us as i have said before. You already know We believe in all the Prophets and Muhammad the final of them. This is the era of Muhammad as the final Messenger.

true2god:
I am not talking about which is better; I am talking about using one document to validate the other. Muslims, not the Quran, claim that previous scriptures (the Torah, the injil and the zabura) has been corrupted but no christian claim the OT to be corrupted. What christian claim is that God had given a new covenant which was fulfilled after the coming of christ; the old testamnet was a shadow of things to come. It is a completely different argument because christians never claimed that the old testament is corrupt.

You made a claim that the Bible was not as it is today. You are right. The Bible is the amalgamantion of Jewish history (the chronicles), Jewish laws, the old Jewish books of prophecies, Songs of David (Pslams), the words and wisdom of solomom (Proverbs and ecclesiastes), the love songs of solomon, the gospel (matthew, mark, luke, john), the activities of the early church (act of the aspostle), the epistles of the apostles of the early churches and the book of revelation at the Island of Patmus (present-day Turkey). So Bible is not a one-man show like the quran. Meanwhile, there is nothing like the quran in the time of mohammed. Mohammed did not arrange the surah and the ayah as we have it today. Quran is a government project conceived by Omar ibn kathab and finally compiled by uthman ibn affan. Mohammed will be shocked and annoyed if presented with the present-day quran because he never sanctioned his sahabas to compiled the quran as a religious book and many of the original manuscript (the hard evidences) were burnt by Uthman ibn Affan. How can we trust today's copy of the quran if some quranic evidences were burnt?

Which lessons of Abraham, Aaron, David, jesus, etc, do you have in the quran? Can you provide the surah and the surah where I can look them up? The truth is that the Torah and the Injil remain Islamic back-up plan for vital information, just as you have the hadith and the sirah. Without the Torah and the Injil, the hadith and the sirah, a large percentage of quranic verses will never be understandable. At least respect the Jewish Torah and zabura and the christian Injil that give your religion a bit sense of meaning.

true2god:
I am not talking about which is better; I am talking about using one document to validate the other. Muslims, not the Quran, claim that previous scriptures (the Torah, the injil and the zabura) has been corrupted but no christian claim the OT to be corrupted. What christian claim is that God had given a new covenant which was fulfilled after the coming of christ; the old testamnet was a shadow of things to come. It is a completely different argument because christians never claimed that the old testament is corrupt.

You made a claim that the Bible was not as it is today. You are right. The Bible is the amalgamantion of Jewish history (the chronicles), Jewish laws, the old Jewish books of prophecies, Songs of David (Pslams), the words and wisdom of solomom (Proverbs and ecclesiastes), the love songs of solomon, the gospel (matthew, mark, luke, john), the activities of the early church (act of the aspostle), the epistles of the apostles of the early churches and the book of revelation at the Island of Patmus (present-day Turkey). So Bible is not a one-man show like the quran. Meanwhile, there is nothing like the quran in the time of mohammed. Mohammed did not arrange the surah and the ayah as we have it today. Quran is a government project conceived by Omar ibn kathab and finally compiled by uthman ibn affan. Mohammed will be shocked and annoyed if presented with the present-day quran because he never sanctioned his sahabas to compiled the quran as a religious book and many of the original manuscript (the hard evidences) were burnt by Uthman ibn Affan. How can we trust today's copy of the quran if some quranic evidences were burnt?

Which lessons of Abraham, Aaron, David, jesus, etc, do you have in the quran? Can you provide the surah and the surah where I can look them up? The truth is that the Torah and the Injil remain Islamic back-up plan for vital information, just as you have the hadith and the sirah. Without the Torah and the Injil, the hadith and the sirah, a large percentage of quranic verses will never be understandable. At least respect the Jewish Torah and zabura and the christian Injil that give your religion a bit sense of meaning.

sulasa07:
May you be guided unto the right path,there was a time you questioned and answered people with bigotry in your words and dont take sides and I commended you for that but now, you've changed and you are siding with a part.

true2god:
I am not talking about which is better; I am talking about using one document to validate the other. Muslims, not the Quran, claim that previous scriptures (the Torah, the injil and the zabura) has been corrupted but no christian claim the OT to be corrupted. What christian claim is that God had given a new covenant which was fulfilled after the coming of christ; the old testamnet was a shadow of things to come. It is a completely different argument because christians never claimed that the old testament is corrupt.

true2god:
You made a claim that the Bible was not as it is today. You are right. The Bible is the amalgamantion of Jewish history (the chronicles), Jewish laws, the old Jewish books of prophecies, Songs of David (Pslams), the words and wisdom of solomom (Proverbs and ecclesiastes), the love songs of solomon, the gospel (matthew, mark, luke, john), the activities of the early church (act of the aspostle), the epistles of the apostles of the early churches and the book of revelation at the Island of Patmus (present-day Turkey). So Bible is not a one-man show like the quran. Meanwhile, there is nothing like the quran in the time of mohammed. Mohammed did not arrange the surah and the ayah as we have it today. Quran is a government project conceived by Omar ibn kathab and finally compiled by uthman ibn affan. Mohammed will be shocked and annoyed if presented with the present-day quran because he never sanctioned his sahabas to compiled the quran as a religious book and many of the original manuscript (the hard evidences) were burnt by Uthman ibn Affan. How can we trust today's copy of the quran if some quranic evidences were burnt?

true2god:
Which lessons of Abraham, Aaron, David, jesus, etc, do you have in the quran? Can you provide the surah and the surah where I can look them up? The truth is that the Torah and the Injil remain Islamic back-up plan for vital information, just as you have the hadith and the sirah. Without the Torah and the Injil, the hadith and the sirah, a large percentage of quranic verses will never be understandable. At least respect the Jewish Torah and zabura and the christian Injil that give your religion a bit sense of meaning.

Rashduct4luv:
It is similar. Can a father who uses different syllabuses to judge his sons be said to be fair? I don't think the God was involved in the authorship of the OT and NT. Certainly no Book can be compiled by over 40 authors over thousands of years and be free of error.

Rashduct4luv:
When it comes to Islam you are always mistaken. Which Qur'an was these?

Ibn ‘Abbas narrates, saying, “The Messenger of Allah (صلى الله عليه وسلم) was the most generous person, and he would be at his most generous in Ramadan because Jibril would come to him every night and he would study the Qur’an with him. Truly, when Allah’s Messenger (صلى الله عليه وسلم) would meet Gabriel, he would be more generous than a fleeting wind.” [Agreed Upon]

Additionally, al-Bukhari reports from Fatima that the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وسلم) told her in the last year of his life, “Jibril used to revise the Qur’an with me once every year, but this year he has revised it with me twice. I do not suspect but that my time has come. And you shall be the first of my household to join me.”

Rashduct4luv:
Fallacy as usual. The Qur'an and Hadith are our Books though separated but goes together. It is not like your Book that combines all together whether stories, words ascribed to God, Words ascribed to Prophets/men of God, Words of disciples, words of unknown persons, words of love birds, etc. Even if i show you the lessons it will benefit you not.

“And We send down of the Qur’aan that which is a healing and a mercy to those who believe (in Islamic Monotheism and act on it), and it increases the Zaalimoon (polytheists and wrongdoers) nothing but loss”[al-Isra’ 17:82]

true2god:
You are confusing things in a bid to correct your mistake. You made an argument that christians assume that the OT has been corrupted, just as muslims claim that the Torah and the injil had been corrupted, but I told you that no christian has ever made such claim. I repeat, no christian can claim that the OT had been corrupted, except muslims. On father using different standard to judge, as a result of the old and the new testament era, you do not understand the christian teachings with respect to this. The time of the OT was the time of the law while the new testament is the time of grace, according to christian teachings. As for the '40 authors' claim, God has been dealing with man for over 6000 years through different medium. The generation of Noah to the generation of Jesus was expansive and of course you cannot expect a man to write down the events. The quran is a testimony of one man against the bible, the testimony of about 40 men. Despite the fact that the quran is a one-man business, it is still filled with historic, scientific and geographical errors.

true2god:
So you believe the hadith only when it suits your argument and you call it 'weak and fabricated' when it fails to support your argument. Thats Islamic standard anyway, HIPOCRISY! Your hadith said mohammed never asked them to COLLATE the quran as a single document. The collation of different recitations as a single document was the brainchild of Omar ibn kathab. There are many quranic recitation that mohammed even forgot and had to be reminded, how can we trust the people compiled the quran when even mohammed couldnt remember all what he was dictating?

Narrated Aisha: The Prophet heard a man reciting the Qur'an in the mosque and said, "May Allah bestow His Mercy on him, as he has reminded me of such-and-such Verses of such a Surah." (Bukhari: volume 6, book 61, number 556, Khan)
Narrated Hisham: (The same Hadith, adding): which I missed (modifying the Verses). (Bukhari: volume 6, book 61, number 557, Khan)
'A'isha reported that the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) heard a person reciting the Qur'an at night. Upon this he said: May Allah show mercy to him; he has reminded me of such and such a verse which I had missed in such and such a surah. (Muslim: book 4, number 1720, Siddique)
'A'isha reported that the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) listened to the recitation of the Qur'an by a man in the mosque. Thereupon he said: May Allah have mercy upon him; be reminded me of the verse which I had been made to forget. (Muslim: book 4, number 1721, Siddique)
Narrated Mu'awiyah ibn Khudayj: One day the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) prayed and gave the salutation while a rak'ah of the prayer remained to be offered. A man went to him and said: You forgot to offer one rak'ah of prayer. ... (Abu Dawud: book 3, number 1018, Hasan)
Narrated Imran ibn Husayn: The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) led them in prayer and forgot something, so he made prostrations and uttered the tashahhud, then gave the salutation. (Abu Dawud: book 3, number 1034, Hasan)
Narrated Abdullah ibn Mas'ud: ... (Muhammad said) I am only a human being and I forget just as you do; so when I forget, remind me, ... (Abu Dawud: book 3, number 1015, Hasan)
Besides, there is no one volume of book called the quran at the time of mohammed.

true2god:
Is it mohammed that also dictated the hadith. Hadith is a mere gossip and rumours that people hear people say about mohammed and was collected together by Bukhari, Muslim, Ibn Majjah, etc, as a religios book to complement the quran. Of course the quran cannot stand alone and make sense: this is a fact! The earliest hadith, by Imam Bukhari, was collected over 250 years after the death of mohammed. He never met any of the sahabas to interview them, how then can you trust the testimony of a random guys on the street of mecca or medina (250 years after mohammed was long gone) who tell Imam Bukhari that ibn Abass, Aisha bin abu bakr, omar ibn kathab, etc said so and and so concerning mohammed? How do you validate such a testimony? No wonder that even muslims had to admit that there are many lies in the hadith and yet the same lies are used to complete the words of allah. This is totally strange to any logically mind.

Rashduct4luv:


Where did i make such claim that Christians assume that the OT has been corrupted? This your attempt to divert attention to somewhere else is unwise. You first claim that a later book cannot contradict a former book. Why would God use law for a people and grace for another? Is this fair?
You can't answer except to shift goal post.

I repeat again. If one man authored a book under inspiration over 23 years and over 40 people authored a book under inspiration over thousands of years which Book will be more error free?

Shift goal post again!



That the Prophet forgot something does not make him less of a Prophet. Infact, it corroborates that fact that he was human. This also proves that many people memorised the Qur'an during his lifetime. And mind you, you can't forget what you don't know.

Can you compare this with what happened to Jesus in the Bible when he was asked about the hour. He practically said he does not know. How can the son of God or God not know something but can quicken the dead and turn water to wine? He did not forget but he said he didnt know. This proves Jesus' knowledge was limited.

But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father Matthew 24:36




Our Hadiths are sacrosanct just as the Qur'an. The Qur'an has been memorised by thousands during the lifetime of the Prophet and till now millions do memorise it. Just as the Qur'an was being memorised it is established that the hadiths too were memorised both by memory and by deeds.

So If the hadith was a gossip/rumors then i'll say three thirds of the Bible is same.
Compare what Luke said in Luke 1 vs 1- 4

Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us, 2 just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word. 3 With this in mind, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, I too decided to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, 4 so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught.

This clearly says Luke was not an eye witness to anything. He was an investigator/writer/ historian. This applies to Paul/ Timothy his scribe too who were not among the disciples of Jesus during his life time. Yet Paul wrote 13 out of 27 Books of the NT even more than what the 11 remaining disciples of Jesus wrote.

A double standard is the application of different sets of principles for situations that are, in principle, the same, and is often used to describe advantage that is given to one party over another. You need to debunk your Books first.

STAY ON THE TOPIC & DON'T SHIFT TO ANOTHER TOPIC.

Rashduct4luv:
Where did i make such claim that Christians assume that the OT has been corrupted? This your attempt to divert attention to somewhere else is unwise. You first claim that a later book cannot contradict a former book. Why would God use law for a people and grace for another? Is this fair? You can't answer except to shift goal post.

I repeat again. If one man authored a book under inspiration over 23 years and over 40 people authored a book under inspiration over thousands of years which Book will be more error free? Shift goal post again!

Rashduct4luv:
The Hadiths are classified based on the chains of narrator of the hadith and the text of the hadiths. What you don't know is bigger than you. Umar was the Second Successor to the Prophet and a rightly guided successor indeed! So if it is Umar, we stick to it. (Radiya Allahu 'anhu)

The Messenger of Allaah صلى الله عليه وسلم said, "Certainly, the one who will live among you will see lots of differences. So stick to my sunnah and the sunnah of the right-principled and rightly-guided successors. Bite onto that with your molar teeth."
Abu Dawood and at-Tirmidhi, according to ibn Muhammad, al-Albaani, al-Bazzaar, al-Tirmidhi, al-Haakim, ibn Abdul Barr, Abu Nuaim and numerous others, this is an authentic hadith

That the Prophet forgot something does not make him less of a Prophet. Infact, it corroborates the fact that he was human. This also proves that many people memorised the Qur'an during his lifetime. And mind you, you can't forget what you don't know.

Can you compare this with what happened to Jesus in the Bible when he was asked about the hour. He practically said he does not know. How can the son of God or God not know something but can quicken the dead and turn water to wine? He did not forget but he said he didn't know. This proves Jesus' knowledge was limited. Shouldn't we throw away all the Gospel because Jesus failed this one question?

But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father Matthew 24:36

Rashduct4luv:
Our Hadiths are sacrosanct just as the Qur'an. The Qur'an has been memorised by thousands during the lifetime of the Prophet and till now millions do memorise it. Just as the Qur'an was being memorised it is established that the hadiths too were memorised both by memory and by deeds.

So If the hadith was a gossip/rumors then i'll say three thirds of the Bible is same.
Compare what Luke said in Luke 1 vs 1- 4

Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us, 2 just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word. 3 With this in mind, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, I too decided to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, 4 so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught.

This clearly says Luke was not an eye witness to anything. He was an investigator/writer/ historian. This applies to Paul/ Timothy his scribe too who were not among the disciples of Jesus during his life time. Yet Paul wrote 13 out of 27 Books of the NT even more than what the 11 remaining disciples of Jesus wrote.

A double standard is the application of different sets of principles for situations that are, in principle, the same, and is often used to describe advantage that is given to one party over another. You need to debunk your Books first.

Rashduct4luv:
STAY ON THE TOPIC & DON'T SHIFT TO ANOTHER TOPIC.

true2god:
My bad, you actually used the word 'better' and not 'corrupted', apologies for the oversight. I am not trying to divert attention. As for God giving a new testament (covenant), not law per se, it is within his soverign right to do as he wishes. The old law says 'thou shalt not kill' but the new covenant law says 'anyone who hates his brother unnecesarily is already condemned as a murderer'. The old laws says 'thou shalt do commit adultery' but the new law says 'any man that looks at a woman lustfully had already committed adultery in his heart'. The new covenant is meant to address the root cause of the problem and not to eliminate it. Jesus said he never came to destroy but to fulfil it. The new covenant is the fulfilment of the old covenant. There are still many laws that this conversation will not allow me mention because of space and time. So it is not a matter of shifting goal post, muslims are just ignorant of the teachings.

true2god:
I have no problem with the clasificaton of the nadith based on their chains of narration. The issue I have is that it was compiled 250 years after mohammed and non of the sahabas was interviewed to give his account about mohammed and his deeds and narrations. The people Bukhari interviewed are street guys who also heard rumours from someone and gave Bukhari the information which he later called the Hadith. Bukhari is not even an Arab man but an Uzbek, how can an Uzbek man compile a religious book for the Arabs without his personal bias? Bukari, being a sunni, did not even report any narration from Imam Ali and Fatimah, the family of your prophet. Something is seriouly wrong here.

true2god:
On Omar ibn kathab suggesting the collection of the quran as a single book, it is his personal idea and mohammed never gave that instruction to anyone. As a matter of fact Abu Bakr initially objected to the idea, because mohammed never ordered such, but later gave approval for the project after much persuasion from Omar. Was Omar also inspired by Allah? How can we trust his judgement?

true2god:
On Jesus not knowing 'the time and hour for last judgement', that is the exclusive responsiblity of the father. The father has the exclusive right to certain decision over the son but that does not make the son less relevant in the scheme of things. This argument is however different from someone that said many things and later forget what he said. If you always remind me of what I say that means I have memory problem. Mohammed proved to have memory problem because he was constantly being reminded of what he claimed allah revealed to him. If Allah was actually giving him revelations while will he keep forgetting what he said allah revealed to him?

true2god:
As i said earlier, the quran in your house today is not the quran we have in the time of mohammed. The momorizers of the quran did not have all the text in their head; some have 1 , some have 3, others 4, etc, ayah on their memory. Stop talking as if anybody, among the companinions, have the full quran in memory. Many momorizers died in the battle of Yamama which led to the loss of large part of the quran. The present-day quran is the SALVAGED copied after the battle of Yamama, aside the ones that were burnt by Uthman.

true2god:
If you day Luke was not an eye-witness, that is ok, I will look more into that claim. However Luke, geographically and historically was closer to the place and time the event took place, that is less than 20 years after the incident. Imam Bukhari, on the other hand, was not geographically close to the place or time of the event. Bukhari live over 1500kms from mecca and medina and over 250 years after the said event, how do you think his work on the hadith will be reliable? It is like a Ghanaian, after 200 years, writing on the life of Chief Obafemi Awolowo (a Yorubaman), how do you think he will get it right? The original hadith he collected was said to be about 600,000 which was later trimed down to a little over 7000, what did the filtering and whats the criteria?

Rashduct4luv:
Stop the merry go round and the falsehood by style. In the New Living Translation of Matthew 5:17 Jesus said:
“Don’t misunderstand why I have come. I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets. No, I came to accomplish their purpose."

Even below, Jesus says obeying the laws is compulsory to enter paradise.

Mark 10:17-22 New International Version (NIV) same in Luke 18: 18-21 and Matthew 19:16-21

17 As Jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him. “Good teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

18 “Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone. 19 You know the commandments: ‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, you shall not defraud, honor your father and mother.’[a]”

You are the one ignorant of everything here.

Rashduct4luv:
It has been established that Bukhari was a righteous slave of Allah and son of a righteous slave of Allah. It doesn't matter if he reported from the Prophet's family or not. His ahadith is the most authentic after the Qur'an. I have told you the hadith was preserved by memory and by deeds.
None of his contemporaries accused him of falsehood or forgery. Only you Christians and Shiites do so. Here is a biography of Imam Bukhari https://www.nairaland.com/5103322/al-bukhari-master-science-prophetic

Rashduct4luv:
I have answered this before. We follow the Sunnah of the Prophet and his four rightly guided Successors. Compiling a Book does not add anything to the religion or remove from it. And he even appointed who had memorised the Qur'an to do it. Umar was a companion of the Messenger of Allah someone the Prophet vouched for before he died. It is clear that no companion interfered in the content of the Qur'an.

On the other hand Paul who was an enemy of Christ became his disciple after seeing a light. How can a self acclaimed disciple who never meet Christ write more than half of the NT even more than the 11 disciples combined? How can we call this the word of God?

Rashduct4luv:
Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Matthew 28:18. He has the ability to wake the dead but his knowledge is limited even with all the authority he got. You just type one theory that is not evidence based in your acclaimed Gospel. No wonder some called your religion Paulinism.

Once again Muhammad forgot. He is human. Jesus who you claim is God himself with all the authority given to him on heaven and on earth has a limited knowledge of things. [b]This means Jesus is not God. God is omniscient. God can do all things.[ /b]

Rashduct4luv:
The need for compilation of the Quran arose during the caliphate of Abu Bakr Siddiq (RA) when several companions of the Prophet (PBUH), who had memorized the Quran, were martyred in the battle of Yamama. That created a cause for concern for Muslims because the loss of those companions also meant the loss of the Quranic content. As a result, Umar bin Khattab (RA) suggested the idea of the compilation of the Quran to Abu Bakr Siddiq (RA), who was hesitant at first, seeing as the Prophet (PBUH) himself had not taken any such measures during the course of his life. However, upon recognizing the rising need of it, he appointed Zayd bin Thabit to supervise the project of compilation.

In order to ensure authenticity and eradicate all possible human errors, all the companion who possessed the written text of the Quran collected during the Prophet’s (PBUH) Ramadan recitation, were asked to bring in their copies. All texts were compared to check for the authenticity of ayahs.

Moreover, Zayd bin Thabit and Umar bin Khattab (RA) also verified each verse as they themselves had memorized the Quran by heart. Therefore, the Quranic text was collected, compiled, proofread and authenticated with the utmost care and precision. The completed version of the Holy Quran was then given in the possession of the caliph at the time, Abu Bakr Siddiq (RA) and was later passed down to the next caliph, Umar bin Khattab (RA).

Rashduct4luv:
You see it is evident that Luke and Paul were not disciples of Christ. Yet they wrote the a huge part of the Bible (NT). Paul was even against Christ while he was on earth.

Once again The hadith are memorised just as the Qur'an and also by deeds. The Hadith collected by Imam Bukahri are much but he could only vouch for those ones after authentication!

Who verified the Books of Paul and Luke? Which of your Books is even authenticated? Even the original manuscripts of the Bible no two documents are similar.
Luke and Paul did not meet Jesus yet they wrote 14 out 27 books of the NT. At least Bukhari didn't claim to see a light from sky.

Rashduct4luv:
NB: The aim of this post is to affirm the Muslim belief in their Books and Prophets and to disbelieve in rumors and unproven narrations about Prophets of Allah from other sources.
Whoever suffers headache as a result of this post should either seek medical assistance or use two tabs of Paracetamol, Acetaminophen, Diclofenac or Ibuprofen.

It is one of the pillar of Islam for a Muslim to believe in the Prophets. These Prophets includes Adam, Nuh (Noah), Ibrahim (Abraham), Musa (Moses), Isma'eel (Ishmael), Ishaq (Isaac), Yaqoob (Jacob), Ayyob (Job), Yoonus (Jonah), Haroon (Aaron), Sulaiman (Solomon), Dawud (David), Idrees (Enoch), Dhul Kifl (Isaiah), Lut (Lot), Zakariyya (Zachariah), Ilyaas (Elijah), Al-Yasa (Elisha), Yahya (John), 'Eesa (Jesus) and Muhammad (Peace be upon them all). And the knowledge of their numbers belongs only to Allah! We believe all of them were sent by Allah to certain set of people or community. Some were given Inspired Books like Torah (Musa), Zabur (Dawud) Injeel ('Eesa), Qur'an (Muhammad), etc.

We believe whatever had been narrated concerning the Prophets in our Books.
Anything outside these:

i. will be true if confirmed by the Qur'an or Sunnah,
ii. will be False if rejected by the Qur'an or Sunnah.
iii. may be doubtful and should be disregarded.

Muslims should not believe all the narrations about previous Prophets they hear/read except it is in line with the Qur'an and Sunnah.

Examples of these narrations includes:

1. Noah became drunk with wine till he became naked. ( A Prophet can not drink wine or behave this way. This happened after the flood. )

2. David saw beautiful Bathsheba while bathing. He then brought her to himself and laid with her. He later killed her husband(Uriah) so that he could marry her. ( A Prophet that was inspired by God can not commit adultery, murder or covet other's wife. These are grave sins. Prophet Dawud used to fast one day and eat the next. Moreover Jesus was usually called the son of David. Is it this same David?)

3. Abraham wanted to sacrifice Isaac. (In Islam, it was Ishmael his first son he wanted to sacrifice)

4. After the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah Lot's two daughters made their father drunk and then slept with him in turns over two consecutive nights! (Prophet Lut can not be involved in incestuous rape. This could not have happened as it would defeat the reason why they were saved from the destruction. God saved them from homosexuality only for them to embrace incest. This is impossible.) Incest is greater than Homo)

5. Crucifixion of Jesus and his claim of divinity or being God. (The Qur'an says Prophet "Eesa was not Cruxified. He was a man strengthened with the Spirit. Follow this link to see what Muslims believe about Jesus https://www.nairaland.com/4064473/what-muslims-belief-concerning-jesus

Prophets are honorable people who are to be role models for people sometimes even beyond their times. Hence they are protected from some grave mistakes as highlighted above.

Other examples are found below from my honored Bro AbdulHakeem44.

Rashduct4luv:


Qur'an doesn't narrate lust, murder, adultery and covetousness of a Prophet. All Prophets as stated earlier are humans capable of making mistakes but not as grave as these. Prophet David was free from all these. He was a messenger inspired with the Zabur. How can someone God inspired be capable of making many grave mistakes like this? Will you say God made a mistake in appointing David? Even Jesus was called the son of David, the murderer of Uriah, Adulterer and Coveter of Uriah's wife.

The Islamic narration is honorable. David was inspired to kill Goliath. It has been transmitted by Ibn 'Umar, may Allah be pleased with him, that the Prophet Muhammad, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said:

"The prayer which Allah loves most is the prayer of Da'wud. The fast which Allah loves most is that of Da'wud. He used to sleep for half of the night, stand up in prayer for a third and sleep for a sixth. He would fast every other day. He wore wool and slept on hair. He ate barley bread with salt and ashes. He mixed his drink with tears. He was never seen to laugh after his error nor to look directly at the sky because of his shyness before his Lord and he continued to weep for the rest of his life. It is said that he wept until plants sprang up from his tears and until tears formed ridges in his cheeks. It is said that he went out in disguise to learn what people thought of him, and hearing himself praised only made him more humble."
Al-Bukhari, Muslim, Ibn Hanbal, Abu Da'wud, An-Nasa'i, and Ibn Majah. From Ash-Shifa' of Qadhi 'Iyad 1:2:24

Rashduct4luv:
NB: The aim of this post is to affirm the Muslim belief in their Books and Prophets and to disbelieve in rumors and unproven narrations about Prophets of Allah from other sources.
Whoever suffers headache as a result of this post should either seek medical assistance or use two tabs of Paracetamol, Acetaminophen, Diclofenac or Ibuprofen.

It is one of the pillar of Islam for a Muslim to believe in the Prophets. These Prophets includes Adam, Nuh (Noah), Ibrahim (Abraham), Musa (Moses), Isma'eel (Ishmael), Ishaq (Isaac), Yaqoob (Jacob), Ayyob (Job), Yoonus (Jonah), Haroon (Aaron), Sulaiman (Solomon), Dawud (David), Idrees (Enoch), Dhul Kifl (Isaiah), Lut (Lot), Zakariyya (Zachariah), Ilyaas (Elijah), Al-Yasa (Elisha), Yahya (John), 'Eesa (Jesus) and Muhammad (Peace be upon them all). And the knowledge of their numbers belongs only to Allah! We believe all of them were sent by Allah to certain set of people or community. Some were given Inspired Books like Torah (Musa), Zabur (Dawud) Injeel ('Eesa), Qur'an (Muhammad), etc.

We believe whatever had been narrated concerning the Prophets in our Books.
Anything outside these:

i. will be true if confirmed by the Qur'an or Sunnah,
ii. will be False if rejected by the Qur'an or Sunnah.
iii. may be doubtful and should be disregarded.

Muslims should not believe all the narrations about previous Prophets they hear/read except it is in line with the Qur'an and Sunnah.

Examples of these narrations includes:

1. Noah became drunk with wine till he became naked. ( A Prophet can not drink wine or behave this way. This happened after the flood. )

2. David saw beautiful Bathsheba while bathing. He then brought her to himself and laid with her. He later killed her husband(Uriah) so that he could marry her. ( A Prophet that was inspired by God can not commit adultery, murder or covet other's wife. These are grave sins. Prophet Dawud used to fast one day and eat the next. Moreover Jesus was usually called the son of David. Is it this same David?)

3. Abraham wanted to sacrifice Isaac. (In Islam, it was Ishmael his first son he wanted to sacrifice)

4. After the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah Lot's two daughters made their father drunk and then slept with him in turns over two consecutive nights! (Prophet Lut can not be involved in incestuous rape. This could not have happened as it would defeat the reason why they were saved from the destruction. God saved them from homosexuality only for them to embrace incest. This is impossible.) Incest is greater than Homo)

5. Crucifixion of Jesus and his claim of divinity or being God. (The Qur'an says Prophet "Eesa was not Cruxified. He was a man strengthened with the Spirit. Follow this link to see what Muslims believe about Jesus https://www.nairaland.com/4064473/what-muslims-belief-concerning-jesus

Prophets are honorable people who are to be role models for people sometimes even beyond their times. Hence they are protected from some grave mistakes as highlighted above.

Other examples are found below from my honored Bro AbdulHakeem44.