If people want to scheme you out, there will always be beautiful reasons. But if you look at the wisdom behind zoning, you will know that it's not to swing power between SW and NW because of their undue advantage but to carry the major tribes along. When we do things, let's look at the intent and not excuses or reasons to make it unjustly favour us

0monnak0da:
They fielded the candidates that won
There was a competition
just like the World Cup final last year was two European Nations

Should we ask FIFA to do for Africa what it did for Europe in 2018?

DMerciful:
Same reason you did it for Yorubas. You said Igbos did not vote Northerners, I pointed it out and now you said they did not vote Bubu. So no Igbo person voted Bubu? Is it all Northerners that voted Bubu? Is it a must to vote Bubu? Now you see you're shifting the goal post when it got to Igbos turn!

You do not deserve any political favors from the North for obvious reasons I've already pointed out. This is getting repetitive and boring.

Nothing was done for Yorubas. The South was allowed the first shot at democratic rule in 1999 because of the sacrifices of Abiola, 1993 annulment & previous Northern domination in power through the military.

Besides, not only have you eroded the northern goodwill you might have had in the past with your constant insults and attacks on the North/PMB post 2015, but you have obstinately asserted your outright refusal to make amends and build political bridges to reach your desired destination, to the point of preferring secession.

Just like "it is not in your nature to beg", it is not in our nature to concede.

Let us enjoy the dance, shall we?

DMerciful:
If people want to scheme you out, there will always be beautiful reasons. But if you look at the wisdom behind zoning, you will know that it's not to swing power between SW and NW because of their undue advantage but to carry the major tribes along. When we do things, let's look at the intent and not excuses or reasons to make it unjustly favour us

I agree that there should be balance but all that talk of scheming people out is the case in life not just politics. In some sectors of trade the Eboes scheme other Nigerians out and that is playing to their "advantages" again the reasons are as you say "beautiful" Hausas are illiterate Ikwerres are lazy and so on
such is life.
Psychologist call this the fundamental attribution error.
When you win you are good when you lose it is because of a fundamental unfairness

In 1960 Zik was president and Balewa was Prime Minister while Awolowo and the AG were in opposition
Exactly the same scenario in 1965

In 1979 Shagari was President Ekwueme Vice President
Ezeoke Speaker HOR and again Awo and his UPN were in opposition
The same scenario in 1983

Let us not talk about your behaviour under GEJ

No one talked of being schemed out or sending the rain back to heaven and not letting it land on the ground in those times

I do not know how old you are but clearly you lack knowledge of our political history.
These things go around and you should learn patience and strategy not threats and tantrums
If anyone should have threatened war and all manner of catastrophe it should have been SW.
Now you are about to lose out on 2023 and it is as if the world will end.

The current alignment btw SW and North is enabled largely by religion and I'm not being emotional here. It will take a lot to break this recent alignment because of the religious connotations. From 1960-1999, it was largely the North. Came 1999, a new order of zoning came and the other major players enjoyed their turn. When it got to the Igbos turn, beautiful reasons came how the Igbos are this and that! You don't trust them bla bla bla but insist on one Nigeria

0monnak0da:
I agree that there should be balance but all that talk of scheming people out is the case in life not just politics. In some sectors of trade the Eboes scheme other Nigerians out and that is playing to their "advantages" again the reasons are as you say "beautiful" Hausas are illiterate Ikwerres are lazy and so on
such is life.
Psychologist call this the fundamental attribution error.
When you win you are good when you lose it is because of a fundamental unfairness

In 1960 Zik was president and Balewa was Prime Minister while Awolowo and the AG were in opposition
Exactly the same scenario in 1965

In 1979 Shagari was President Ekwueme Vice President
Ezeoke Speaker HOR and again Awo and his UPN were in opposition
The same scenario in 1983

Let us not talk about your behaviour under GEJ

No one talked of being schemed out or sending the rain back to heaven and not letting it land on the ground in those times

I do not know how old you are but clearly you lack knowledge of our political history.
These things go around and you should learn patience and strategy not threats and tantrums
If anyone should have threatened war and all manner of catastrophe it should have been SW.
Now you are about to lose out on 2023 and it is as if the world will end.

DMerciful:
The current alignment btw SW and North is enabled largely by religion and I'm not being emotional here. It will take a lot to break this recent alignment because of the religious connotations. From 1960-1999, it was largely the North. Came 1999, a new order of zoning came and the other major players enjoyed their turn. When it got to the Igbos turn, beautiful reasons came how the Igbos are this and that! You don't trust them bla bla bla but insist on one Nigeria

Seems you don’t get it bro. The Igbos deserve no sympathy from the Yorubas because judging by history the Igbos are the first set of people that betrayed the southern alliance.

I think I’m more hardened than the OP in all this, I don’t sweet talk, the Igbos deserve zero sympathy from the Yoruba and I even think the North is a better ally than the SE.

There is nothing like micro zoning, it’s the South and the North. If each party fail to zone their ticket to the south in 2023, then the Yorubas will revert back to being the opposition coz we’ve been in the opposition for long in the history of Nigeria.

It’s better for you to form alliance with the North than to depend on us (Yorubas) because the Igbos do not deserve any iota of pity from the Yorubas.
So you better get ready to contest against the SW in 2023 or play the second fiddle to the North in PDP like your forebearers always do.

DMerciful:
The current alignment btw SW and North is enabled largely by religion and I'm not being emotional here. It will take a lot to break this recent alignment because of the religious connotations. From 1960-1999, it was largely the North. Came 1999, a new order of zoning came and the other major players enjoyed their turn. When it got to the Igbos turn, beautiful reasons came how the Igbos are this and that! You don't trust them bla bla bla but insist on one Nigeria

You cannot have your own version of reality. Reality is what it is .

The SW voted Goodluck Jonathan in in 2011. before that the SW supported him to complete Yar'adua's term.
He disappointed the SW and the went against him. Nothing to do with religion

Also he was encouraged by the Eboes in this enterprise and paid dearly for it. Nothing to do with religion
Additionally he was a poor politician and mismanaged PDP in the SW . When he came to power Tinubu and Mimiko were the only non PDP governors. He gave the region back to AD after getting into a foolish fight with Obasanjo and anyone in the SW he saw as pro Obasanjo. He jailed Bode George, Harassed Dimeji Bankole and many more and so when 2015 came his henchmen in PDP in the SW were Obanikoro,,Fayose and Fani-Kayode. He killed PDP in the SW for reasons best known to him a move I can only describe as suicidal
This is nothing to do with Islam but pure politics when election time came he had no footmen in the SW in 2015

The Eboes have to get politicians that know politics politics is a skill and gift and if you do not have it whose problem is that??

DMerciful:
The two major parties fielded only Yoruba presidential candidates! So this time the two major parties should field Igbo candidate! It's called equity

That was because Yoruba candidates defeated other Southern candidates at the primaries.

Let Ibo candidates do the same

The hausas voted for Yorubas at the primary because the intent was to make Yorubas emerge. They should do same for the Igbos or else!

raumdeuter:


That was because Yoruba candidates defeated other Southern candidates at the primaries.

Let Ibo candidates do the same

DMerciful:
The hausas voted for Yorubas at the primary because the intent was to make Yorubas emerge. They should do same for the Igbos or else!

Then Yorubas and Ibos will contest for the party ticket, Now go and use your negotiation to make Hausas vote for you like Obasanjo

raumdeuter:


Then Yorubas and Ibos will contest for the party ticket, Now go and use your negotiation to make Hausas vote for you like Obasanjo

The best option for the Igbos is to form alliance with the Hausas like their forebearers do. Instead of wasting their time antagonizing the Yorubas, they should rather go and beg the Hausas to give them a chance coz that will yield more benefit than blaming Tinubu every day.

Obj did not negotiate, they just gave him due to the fallout from June 12. If Nigerians want integration as a nation, they have to accept that it's the turn of Igbos. You cant be swinging power btw hausas and Yorubas and expect national unity

raumdeuter:


Then Yorubas and Ibos will contest for the party ticket, Now go and use your negotiation to make Hausas vote for you like Obasanjo

DMerciful:
Obj did not negotiate, they just gave him due to the fallout from June 12. If Nigerians want integration as a nation, they have to accept that it's the turn of Igbos. You cant be swinging power btw hausas and Yorubas and expect national unity

Then you have to bring yourself down and stop demanding. You have to beg, strip yourself of any ego, and negotiate with the rest of the country.

You don’t have a bargaining power in this so stop doing like you have a choice. The Igbo presidency will be on the terms of other tribe and they will choose for you just like you guys chose OBJ against SW interest in 1999.

All I know is that there is no equity in swinging power btw NW and SW under any guise. After SE, it should go to NC or NE!

LegendHero:


Then you have to bring yourself down and stop demanding. You have to beg, strip yourself of any ego, and negotiate with the rest of the country.

You don’t have a bargaining power in this so stop doing like you have a choice. The Igbo presidency will be on the terms of other tribe and they will choose for you just like you guys chose OBJ against SW interest in 1999.

DMerciful:
All I know is that there is no equity in swinging power btw NW and SW under any guise. After SE, it should go to NC or NE!

Why not NC first before SE?

DMerciful:
All I know is that there is no equity in swinging power btw NW and SW under any guise. After SE, it should go to NC or NE!

You need to make up your mind

You mention Islam

Is Obasanjo a Muslim
Righteous indignation is not a strategy
Ranting is not a strategy

Fact is you have no strategy

Anyway you are derailing the thread

This thread is to examine the claim which you use as your underpinning argument as the case for an Igbo president

Is that claim true?

Is it true that PDP zoned the presidency to the Yorubas

Going by your bizarre logic so we can also say that PDP zoned it to the NW in 2019?

Your problem is that your argument is based on lies and half truths and cannot withstand any scrutiny.
When Obasanjo won was this done with any aggression or polemic directed at the Eboes.
Why can you not approach this in the spirit of democracy go and negotiate with the rest of Nigeria and see if that can help you defeat the Yoruba this time

We are operating the EKWUEME MODEL

which means we will contest . We the Yoruba will not step down. It is up to you to find a way to use your legendary smartness to achieve your objectives.
It is the same in business which you boast to be masters in . There is no affirmative action in trading.
Abokis are good at moving cattle of foot for hundreds of kilometres no rival
ditto for suya making ,selling dollars etc.
You are famous for many things from Mumbai to Johannesburg
no rival
So put your brains to work and develop a strategy because the Yoruba politicians are not joking about 2023

DMerciful:
Obj did not negotiate, they just gave him due to the fallout from June 12. If Nigerians want integration as a nation, they have to accept that it's the turn of Igbos. You cant be swinging power btw hausas and Yorubas and expect national unity

Why do you think they voted for Obasanjo a Yoruba Christian? why do you think Jonathan became president?

Be waiting and demanding there while smart people are making alliances,

The SW have advantage and it's this advantage they are trying to use to cheat Igbos but what you are doing here is looking for a way to explain this potential cheating. That's the whole essence of the thread. To betray rotational gentleman agreement then justify it. Just like some Northerners are currently justifying ruling after Bubu by saying the entire South has ruled for 15yrs while the North has ruled for 9yrs
When people want to cheat, there are always beautiful reasons

0monnak0da:
You need to make up your mind

You mention Islam

Is Obasanjo a Muslim
Righteous indignation is not a strategy
Ranting is not a strategy

Fact is you have no strategy

Anyway you are derailing the thread

This thread is to examine the claim which you use as your underpinning argument as the case for an Igbo president

Is that claim true?

Is it true that PDP zoned the presidency to the Yorubas

Going by your bizarre logic so we can also say that PDP zoned it to the NW in 2019?

Your problem is that your argument is based on lies and half truths and cannot withstand any scrutiny.
When Obasanjo won was this done with any aggression or polemic directed at the Eboes.
Why can you not approach this in the spirit of democracy go and negotiate with the rest of Nigeria and see if that can help you defeat the Yoruba this time

We are operating the EKWUEME MODEL

which means we will contest . We the Yoruba will not step down. It is up to you to find a way to use your legendary smartness to achieve your objectives.
It is the same in business which you boast to be masters in . There is no affirmative action in trading.
Abokis are good at moving cattle of foot for hundreds of kilometres no rival
ditto for suya making ,selling dollars etc.
You are famous for many things from Mumbai to Johannesburg
no rival
So put your brains to work and develop a strategy because the Yoruba politicians are not joking about 2023

You are looking for unnecessary argument

LegendHero:


Why not NC first before SE?

DMerciful:
The SW have advantage and it's this advantage they are trying to use to cheat Igbos but what you are doing here is looking for a way to explain this potential cheating. That's the whole essence of the thread. To betray rotational gentleman agreement then justify it. Just like some Northerners are currently justifying ruling after Bubu by saying the entire South has ruled for 15yrs while the North has ruled for 9yrs
When people want to cheat, there are always beautiful reasons

Eboes have "advantage" in trading
No one accuses them of "cheating" anyone.

Of course when Eboes talk about their trading prowess the stories are "beautiful" that is life.

No one has everything
Has anyone threatened war if Eboes do not allow them to come and takeover 50% of Honitcha market
Has anyone threatened war unless they are allowed to take over Ariaria market. ?
But Eboes control Alaba market . I am sure you have a "beautiful story" to explain why that is so. It is beautiful to you but might not be to others

Now you are threatening war if people do not vote for you.
We shall see

Your logic and thinking makes plenty of sense.........

TO YOU!!




Which gentleman's agreement exists between SW and SE??

The gentleman agreement is rotation of presidency. If presidency swings btw NW and SW to the detriment of others, what's the point of zoning? You said the advantage Yorubas have is also concomitant to the Igbos advantage. But your logic is assuming trading or market ownership is zoned, where is the logic here. Yoruba elders went to meet Bubu that the North should not contest but it should be zoned to the South cos they know if North contest, the advantage they have in the South is no match.So you can see the deceit here. You want it to be zoned to where you have advantage and exclude people who have bigger advantage. Its either its zoned to the regions in turn or discarded, any other form of zoning is a fraud!

0monnak0da:
Eboes have "advantage" in trading
No one accuses them of "cheating" anyone.

Of course when Eboes talk about their trading prowess the stories are "beautiful" that is life.

No one has everything
Has anyone threatened war if Eboes do not allow them to come and takeover 50% of Honitcha market
Has anyone threatened war unless they are allowed to take over Ariaria market. ?
But Eboes control Alaba market . I am sure you have a "beautiful story" to explain why that is so. It is beautiful to you but might not be to others

Now you are threatening war if people do not vote for you.
We shall see

Your logic and thinking makes plenty of sense.........

TO YOU!!




Which gentleman's agreement exists between SW and SE??

DMerciful:
The gentleman agreement is rotation of presidency. If presidency swings btw NW and SW to the detriment of others, what's the point of zoning? You said the advantage Yorubas have is also concomitant to the Igbos advantage. But your logic is assuming trading or market ownership is zoned, where is the logic here. Yoruba elders went to meet Bubu that the North should not contest but it should be zoned to the South cos they know if North contest, the advantage they have in the South is no match.So you can see the deceit here. You want it to be zoned to where you have advantage and exclude people who have bigger advantage. Its either its zoned to the regions in turn or discarded, any other form of zoning is a fraud!

You cannot get away with lies or half truths
BE SPECIFIC

What is this gentleman's agreement and where was it made

Who were the parties to it

The problem you folk have is dishonesty. Brazen bold faced dishonesty#

Please tell what would have happened if Goodluck Jonathan had won in 2015??

Did you not support him in 2011?

Was that part of the "agreement"?

If you want to beg or negotiate do so but do not test people's intelligence with bizarre lies

If there was an agreement in 1999 why did Ekwueme contest?

Why did he contest against the incumbent in 2003?
Do you think everyone else is an idiott?

The only agreement I know of in PDP is North South rotation and that is why Ekwueme contested

Now in 2019 The NC, NE and NW all contested.

Why was the NW not asked to abstain?

DMerciful:
You said the advantage Yorubas have is also concomitant to the Igbos advantage. But your logic is assuming trading or market ownership is zoned, where is the logic here.

Let me quote you on this one

DMerciful:

When people want to cheat, there are always beautiful reasons

I raised several points but you dodge one. Why did Yoruba elders ask Bubu to tell his people not to contest knowing if the North contest, the seeming advantage the Yorubas have in the South is no match? Its deceitful to propose a system that unfairly swings power to you. If you feel you have advantage against others in the South then scrap the zoning and use your advantage. You and I know if they scrap zoning, Yorubas will find it extremely difficult to smell the presidency

0monnak0da:


You cannot get away with lies or half truths
BE SPECIFIC

What is this gentleman's agreement and where was it made

Who were the parties to it

The problem you folk have is dishonesty. Brazen bold faced dishonesty#

Please tell what would have happened if Goodluck Jonathan had won in 2015??

Did you not support him in 2011?

Was that part of the "agreement"?

If you want to beg or negotiate do so but do not test people's intelligence with bizarre lies

If there was an agreement in 1999 why did Ekwueme contest?

Why did he contest against the incumbent in 2003?
Do you think everyone else is an idiott?

The only agreement I know of in PDP is North South rotation and that is why Ekwueme contested

Now in 2019 The NC, NE and NW all contested.

Why was the NW not asked to abstain?

If you feel you have real advantage, then scrap zoning in its entirety and let it become obvious that you have advantage when the whole Nigeria is in the fray

0monnak0da:



Let me quote you on this one

DMerciful:
I raised several points but you dodge one. Why did Yoruba elders ask Bubu to tell his people not to contest knowing if the North contest, the seeming advantage the Yorubas have in the South is no match? Its deceitful to propose a system that unfairly swings power to you. If you feel you have advantage against others in the South then scrap the zoning and use your advantage. You and I know if they scrap zoning, Yorubas will find it extremely difficult to smell the presidency

That is derailing the thread

This thread is not to discuss fairness .


If you want to do that create a thread for that unless of course you admit the premise that in 1999 the PDP did not zone presidency to Yoruba but to the entire south
If you are admitting that then our work is done

I promise you if you create a thread to discuss the fairness of rotation etc I will join you but we cannot widen the discussion here ad infinitum

Let us focus on the key issue.

Many many people have repeated the falsehood that in 1999 the PDP zoned presidency to the Yoruba

Do you agree that this is not true??

DMerciful:
If you feel you have real advantage, then scrap zoning in its entirety and let it become obvious that you have advantage when the whole Nigeria is in the fray

Derailing the thread.
We can discuss an infinite number of issues till 2023

We are talking about what happened in 1999 . Let us set the records straight FIRST

The PDP zoned it to Yorubas. They did not come out openly to do it but everybody knows it was an unspoken truth to compensate the June 12 saga.As a new party then, they cannot officially zone it to SW but they did it via understanding. You cannot change this fact. Obj was convicted of planning a coup by Abacha. To make Obj selection possible, they hurriedly gazzetted a pardon because they knew where they were going. That primaries was to fulfill all righteousness

0monnak0da:

That is derailing the thread

This thread is not to discuss fairness .


If you want to do that create a thread for that unless of course you admit the premise that in 1999 the PDP did not zone presidency to Yoruba but to the entire south
If you are admitting that then our work is done

I promise you if you create a thread to discuss the fairness of rotation etc I will join you but we cannot widen the discussion here ad infinitum

Let us focus on the key issue.

Many many people have repeated the falsehood that in 1999 the PDP zoned presidency to the Yoruba

Do you agree that this is not true??

DMerciful:
The PDP zoned it to Yorubas. They did not come out openly to do it but everybody knows it was an unspoken truth to compensate the June 12 saga.As a new party then, they cannot officially zone it to SW but they did it via understanding. You cannot change this fact. Obj was convicted of planning a coup by Abacha. To make Obj selection possible, they hurriedly gazzetted a pardon because they knew where they were going. That primaries was to fulfill all righteousness

So The PDP zoned it to Yoruba but it was not open??

Why did Ekwueme contest?

Why did no Eboe contest against GEJ in 2011 and 2015

You said we should focus on 1999 and now you're going to 2011 and 2015! Ekwueme contested because they deceived him but in the inner caucus meeting especially by the generals,
they already picked Obj. Obj had no money, they sponsored it. Obj was convicted, they got a pardon with the speed of light. Nobody is fooled here. Its was calculated for a Yoruba to emerge.
Obj had no personal contribution to his victory!

0monnak0da:

So The PDP zoned it to Yoruba but it was not open??

Why did Ekwueme contest?

Why did no Eboe contest against GEJ in 2011 and 2015

DMerciful:
You said we should focus on 1999 and now you're going to 2011 and 2015! Ekwueme contested because they deceived him but in the inner caucus meeting especially by the generals,
they already picked Obj. Obj had no money, they sponsored it. Obj was convicted, they got a pardon with the speed of light. Nobody is fooled here. Its was calculated for a Yoruba to emerge.
Obj had no personal contribution to his victory!

I am taking it that you have admitted that the presidency was zoned to the entire south in 1999.
My question was a follow through on 1999

I did not ask why Jonathan contested.

I asked why the Eboes did not contest against him but chose to contest against Obasanjo in 1999 and 2003

Clearly the Eboes believe that it was open to the entire South

Now that I have convinced you that the PDP primary of 1999 was targeted at the Yorubas,then I can go further. The Igbos did not contest against GEJ an Ijaw man because they understood the Ijaws, just like the Igbos have been excluded so now that they have opportunity, let them maximize their turn. If it was an Edo man, the Igbos will do the same thing. Igbos will do the same for the Ighalas or Tiv or even Kanuri. That's why you hear Igbos always preach equity.

0monnak0da:
I am taking it that you have admitted that the presidency was zoned to the entire south in 1999.
My question was a follow through on 1999

I did not ask why Jonathan contested.

I asked why the Eboes did not contest against him but chose to contest against Obasanjo in 1999 and 2003

Clearly the Eboes believe that it was open to the entire South

DMerciful:
Now that I have convinced you that the PDP primary of 1999 was targeted at the Yorubas,then I can go further. The Igbos did not contest against GEJ an Ijaw man because they understood the Ijaws, just like the Igbos have been excluded so now that they have opportunity, let them maximize their turn. If it was an Edo man, the Igbos will do the same thing. Igbos will do the same for the Ighalas or Tiv or even Kanuri. That's why you hear Igbos always preach equity.

Targeted That makes plenty of sense. In your mind

So you can expect that the Yoruba will contest against Eboes whenever the opportunity arises simples